Ep. 5 - CPO Mindset 101: Purpose, Kindness, Pre-emptive Action, and Learning from Failure with Neil Marsons

In the highly pressurised world of procurement and supply chain, it's easy to lose sight of the things that matter: kindness, humility, and the odd 'Thank you' here and there.

In this episode, we welcome Neil Marsons, who shares some of the invaluable knowledge he has gleaned from his impressive career in procurement and supply chain.

Neil touches on the essential mindset characteristics CPOs need for a successful career, as well as how to transform procurement into a value-adding business component rather than a reactive function. He also touches on the power of learning from failure, and how kindness and strong relationships can significantly impact an organization's success.


You'll learn:

1. How to shift from reactive to proactive procurement
2. The importance of learning from failures
3. The impact of strong supplier relationships
4. Why kindness is crucial in leadership
5. The role of procurement in sustainability and its contribution to society

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Get in touch with Neil Marsons on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neil-marsons-9776836/

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About the host Martina Buchhauser:
Martina Buchhauser is a global leader with a profound knowledge of the automotive industry and its shift towards new and sustainable technologies and the imperative for a responsible and low-carbon business. Her leadership journey has encompassed executive roles in Global Procurement and Supply Chain Networks at General Motors, MAN, BMW, and Volvo Cars, where she until recently served as the Chief Procurement Officer and on the management board. She is a senior advisor of H&Z Management Consulting and is a non-executive director on several company boards. Martina very much enjoys being outside in nature – that’s why she loves hiking, golfing, and skiing. Her family and her friends from all over the world play an important role to her, and experiencing life together with them is the greatest joy. Martina is passionate about leadership and has been very engaged in developing and promoting talent.

Get in touch with Martina Buchhauser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martina-buchhauser/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

From a procurement perspective, it's always about doing the right thing, right? And you know, doing the right thing, in my experience, will that'll feed your soul, not your ego, right? And if you've got a mentality where, you know, you never give up, um, you know, you roll with the punches, as they say, you'll enjoy what you're doing. Procurement is an often, you know, pressurized environment. And it's it's the same in JCB, it's in the same, you know, in in functions in companies all over the world. Um, and I think it as part of that, you know, tempers can get frayed, people can not necessarily display the right behaviors. But for me, you know, being kind costs nothing.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Welcome to the Procurement Initiative Leaders Podcast, the ultimate resource for top-level procurement professionals looking to stay ahead of the curve and drive meaningful change within their organizations. I'm your host, Martina Buchhauser, founder of the Procurement Initiative Think Tank and senior advisor at HZ, Europe's leading management consultancy. Join me as I sit down with global leaders in procurement and other relevant areas to uncover the latest trends, strategies, and insights that are shaping the future of procurement. We tackle crucial topics like leadership, technology, value creation, cost management, resilient supply chains, innovation, and many more. Ready to up your game as a leader in procurement? Let's jump into this episode of the Procurement Initiative Leaders Podcast with me, Martina Buchhauser. Welcome to our podcast. And uh today I have Neil Marsens with me. There are a lot of challenges today, and we're not going to get out of it. There will be more. Um, but doesn't that exactly mean that, and you've you've started this, um, we used to build organizations in a fairly hierarchical way, while the guy sitting on top of everything knows everything. But is that really true anymore? Is that can we really rely on one person in an organization? And uh given you know how fast-paced and volatile and unpredictable this world is, don't we need you know the whole neural network of people? And because there's there is knowledge and engagement in all parts of the organization.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

What do you think? I and I I completely agree. Um I I uh I remember a few years ago, everybody was talking about the new normal. Uh I don't think there is such a thing as the new normal. The new normal is whatever we're in at the moment. Um, and if we've learned anything uh from the last, I'm gonna say three years, whether it be with the pandemic, the semiconductor crisis, which touched multiple industries, um, I think the one thing that that everybody has learned is that there is a need to continually adapt. And I think you know, the traditional organization structure uh or how organizations have operated hierarchically historically um served a purpose, but I think having a much um flatter and quicker and agile decision-making mechanism um to balance risks versus opportunities is definitely the way forward. I think that coupled with um more diversity in leadership positions, um, and that's not just gender, by the way, that's age, background, uh country. Um bringing all of those different insights and perspectives together definitely means it's a more productive and uh positively challenging environment and positively challenging set of discussions, which you know enable organizations to uh chart the right course. Um, and of course, you know, within that, from a leadership perspective, you know, empowering the people who actually do the work on a daily basis has to be the most efficient way of uh of moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

I totally agree. And I I like to look at uh kind of this diversity in an organization also like just different thinking, right? It just helps so much if you have more perspective, and of course, we do not know it all, right? And and that's something that people need to be a bit more humble with, maybe. You know, I don't have to know it all, but I bring one part of the equation, right? And then it's nice to uh to kind of bring everything together, bring many perspectives together, but of course, take a decision then which way to go. But it's nice to see and hear about other thoughts. And okay, so in this um in this notion, then what do you think is a commonly held belief out there in the procurement world that you strongly disagree with? Because there might be more than just the diversity.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Oh, yeah, there's quite there's quite a few. I I think I think the most prominent one is that you know procurement is just an administration function. Um, you know, with it, we're either there to raise orders or we're there to save money. Um I fundamentally disagree with that. Uh, and as I said at the beginning, for me, um, if you look at most successful organizations, procurement is a function that that creates value, adds value. Um, and when it is valued uh within any organization, the the benefits are there uh to be seen. And a lot of the benefits do drop through to the bottom line, but it's it's a bit broader than that. You know, the the innovation and technology that becoming can be into an organization, particularly in the manufacturing sector, but just not just restricted to that. Um, and accessing new innovation and technologies from supply partners and you know, part genuine company-to-company partners. Um, and we're seeing a lot of that across various industries at the moment, um, is just one example of of adding and creating value.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Uh yeah, I think it's interesting how much as a procurement leader you can actually be part of the equation in also a bit throwing yourself into things, right? I mean, you can decide that you just, you know, kind of a bit narrowly, although there's so much happening outside and everything has an immediate impact to the supply chain, but you can kind of take the decision to kind of stay in your, you know, maybe sometimes a bit of a narrow world. But I think you can also try to take on more responsibility in this whole equation and throw yourself into, you know, why are we doing this? What how can we as procurement contribute to the overall company strategy? How can we make sure that we we not only come in once the strategy is created, but we're part of defining the strategy. And I think there is a big difference. And once you once you're part of this, and once you're you know kind of co-creating the strategy and all the things that need to happen, then you can explain this much better to your team, and your team can much more define, identify themselves actually with uh what it is we're doing. And so, so kind of coming back to the purpose, right? Absolutely. So I find this intriguing to throw yourself, and that's what everyone can do, maybe listening today to the podcast is you know, throw yourself in, and you know, you have such an important part uh of the company's value creation. Um just deal with it, right? Take that responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Absolutely. And you know, I I think um in my career that I think accountability is something that you take, right? It's not something that you're given. You you you absolutely have to take accountability. And nine times out of ten, um, when you choose to take accountability, nobody really tries to stop you. If anything, you know, if you're in the right organization and in the right environment, you get the the encouragement and support, you know, to go and do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, I I totally agree. No one will stop you, you know, when you do all the magic and the great things. So, but what is it people should actually stop doing?

SPEAKER_01 8:57

I I think people need to stop reacting.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Reacting.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Reacting. I think, you know, over the last three years in particular, procurement in most businesses has had to be a function that reacts fast. Um, I think now it's time to take the learning forward, um, start planning ahead. And um, and if you plan ahead, you don't necessarily need to react, you can respond. Um, so I think everybody needs to stop reacting. Um, because we don't we we don't need to be a reactive function. We do, um, but it's much better to be more responsive and and planning ahead, having uh preempted what potentially may come.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Absolutely. I think that's uh that's an interesting take. Stop reacting, start responding, or you know, planning, preparing. So, okay, well then what should people actually start doing?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Uh well that that's that's quite simple for me, really. That's um starting to preempt risks. Um and I, you know, procurement historically has been very good as a as a firefighting function. Um you know, and I work with some of the best firefighters in the industry. Um but I'd much rather have uh fire prevention officers, right? And and I'd rather I'd rather be boring. Boring to me is good. Um and by that I mean, you know, if we if we preempted the risk, we've got plant mitigation plans in place, and look, well, there'll always be an element of to react. Um but boring generally is a um you know symbolizes that there's a level of stability there, and and God knows, you know, most companies need that uh now more so than ever. And and I think you know, building on that, um, half of the battle is mindset and belief. Um and I'll often say to to a lot of my teammates, don't use the word try. You either do or you do not. Um and then and then in doing that, you become a lot more deterministic um in your actions and behaviors. Uh, and I think you know the the last the last few years have put a huge focus on procurement. Um, it's a great opportunity for people to grow. Um, and it's you know, on the back of that, it's a great opportunity for organizations to grow. And you know, procurement is solely and squarely in this in the spotlight. Um and I think it's going to be for many years now that, like I said before, there is no new normal, new normal is now. Uh, so you know, for for the from a procurement leader perspective, um, it comes down to leadership and mindset. Um, and we need to, you know, learn and decide, you know, what are the urgent things, what are the important things, and what are the risks, potential risks, um, that we need to preempt. And it's uh, you know, it it there is no real magic formula, but I think you know what what we try and promote, and certainly I personally try to promote, is the mindset. So if this happens, then what does that mean? And what else could we do? Um, which is really, you know, it's it it's like any negotiation, right? You try and think things through to the end, preempt all of the things that could come up.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Um, it's just the application of that thinking in a in a different context other than a straightforward commercial negotiation.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

I like that because you have to think a bit in different outcomes, right? What's I mean, I think it's uh it came across to me a lot with the uh the whole concept of sustainability, circular economy. It it's a bit like, all right, I mean, if I don't do any of that, if I don't prepare myself for you know some of the measures absolutely needed for, you know, in this whole climate change world. Well, what if I don't? You know, I think it's very important to work with different outcomes. And of course it's hard because we don't, we don't have the the means, the tools, the the whatever to to always simulate, you know, what does that outcome give me? What because it gets very complicated, and that's what this procurement world is. It is complex and complicated, and but I think with a bit of common sense, you can also get there, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

So um uh I had another question for you, and that is if you could ask one question to 10 of your peers, um what question would you ask them?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Uh I'd ask them what what's your purpose?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

What's your purpose?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

What's your purpose?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Um, and that's that's multifaceted, right? Um so from a peer perspective, it it you know, you can answer from a personal perspective, you can answer as a leader, um, you know, thinking about the impact that that you have personally, um, and that comes around you know uh self-awareness, environmental awareness, all key attributes of of any good leader, regardless of discipline. Um for me, procurement, um the what one of the one of the key value sets uh or key values uh for me that I look for, whether it's in peers or people in my team or people in other organizations, is authentic authenticity. Um why do I look for authenticity? Because people in you know good senior procurement positions, but also in any position within procurement have the ability to make a big impact. And a lot of the time, you know, particularly when you think about sourcing decisions in the manufacturing sector, and I'm quite fortunate. I worked in you know, aerospace, automotive, I'm going off highway and construction. Um, the sourcing decisions are not just decisions that are uh solely monetary, you know, they create jobs, they create livelihoods, they create, you know, in some instances, thriving communities. Um, it extends far beyond any monetary decision or profit. Of course, that's important, uh, but it's all about impact, which is why authenticity is so important. And then, you know, at an individual level, understanding what your purpose is, personally, professionally, is so important. Um, because if not if not done or approached in a sustainable way, um you know, the next generation of procurement people and their families um will pay the price. We can see it now. And I, you know, last year, when you look at you know just some of the extreme weather conditions that we experienced, um you know, that that that's that's climate change.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

And you know, when I I'm smiling a bit because when I first met you, and basically one of the first things we were talking about within the procurement initiative, uh, you know, was your take on exactly this, you know, taking sourcing decisions is more than just going by a price. Because as you say, and I I kept that very well in mind, and it really impressed me at the time when you said that, um, you know, that we basically decide whether people can afford a family holiday or not. And and, you know, it might sound a bit dramatic, uh, but one needs to understand, you know, what what's the impact of all these um decisions we're taking uh within procurement? And and I'm always also questioning well, does it are we really talking about competition and chasing, you know, the one cent, and or do we have to think about more than a price? And yes, granted, people do that, but I think understanding the ultimate um impact is a step further. And understanding your or seeing your supplier as a as a partner, you know, with you know, as someone who could actually with planning security help you a lot more going into this very unpredictable future. Um, so so my my thinking is does it always have to be competition, competition, or uh is you know, or is it sometimes even pseudo-competition and do we need to go for more collaboration?

SPEAKER_01 17:55

I think um competition is good. Um and you know it keeps it keeps everybody on their toes, right? It keeps everybody on the toes, uh, and it keeps people at the forefront of technology and competitiveness. Um for me personally, um, I'm a big advocate of relationships, um, particularly supplier relationships. And there's a big misconception between having a strong relationship with a supplier and mistaking it for complacency, right? Um relationships with suppliers is like any relationship, whether it's a marriage or a friendship, um, relationships are hard work, right? And they're only as good as the effort that both parties put in. And if one party is put in more effort in than the than the other, then the relationship doesn't become as good. Um, and when there are challenges in a business context, and I've experienced this numerous times throughout my career, and when there are problems, when there are challenges, the relationship becomes the oil in the machine for getting things done. Right? You can't rely on status, job title, or hierarchy. It's the relationships that you've built with people, right? Because relationships ultimately is all about people. Um, and being able to pick the phone up and saying, look, I've got a problem here, I need your help. Um, that's when things really, really, really get done. Um, it's easy, easy to, you know, optically save a few pounds or even a few million. Um, but you can also equally lose millions uh without having the right relationships in place.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Yeah, so it's a good word to say, you know, optically. You can easy to save optically optically a few pounds, but um, but yeah, it's it's so much more than that. And um it feels like people haven't really gotten used to this kind of newer way of uh of working, and newer way of leading, and a newer way of collaboration that is simply necessary. I think some people even you know see this as a as a failure if they if they don't uh squeeze out the last you know scent. But but is there such a thing as failure in your world?

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Um lot, I think. Um I've I've gone through many failures in my career. Um for me uh failure is the best way of learning. Um I had a boss a number of years ago. Uh I dropped I got promoted, and I remember saying to him, I won't let you down. I won't let you down, I work really hard. And he turned around to me and we were in a taxi in Japan, I'll never forget it. And he said, I want you to fail. I said, I beg your pardon. He said, I want you to fail. Um he said, because when you fail, I know you'll learn. Um and uh it, you know, it wasn't it it wasn't that profound at the time. I was like, okay, that's an interesting thing to say, but I I I I I I received it as you know, he was he was a person who was very supportive. Um, and I knew that if I did make some mistakes, you know, I wasn't going to be chastised. Um all he asked from me was was that I learned from it. And I think you know, I carried that forward then um from that point onwards to date. And it and for me, it's not about you know, you either win or you fail. Um the the key question is you know, when you do fail or you make a mistake, what am I going to learn from it? Um for me personally, I've always been an avid self lover. Learner. I like to understand and I, you know, I keep abreast of what's going on in the business, what's going on in the market, what's going on in the supply chain. And I've always been a very experiential learner. So for me personally, when I fail, it's either win or learn, which is a bit of a win-win in some respects, anyway. And I think when you're in an environment that it's a learning environment where it's it's it's very different in some respects. You know, you have a quite lots of different stimuli and information thrown at you that is available to you both as a procurement professional and as a leader. And then you know, when you don't quite get something right, being able to learn from it or fail fast and move on, um is it can become a motivator in itself. Um and that and that and that that spreads right, that spreads with yourself and and your teammates. Um, and if you can create that environment, um then uh you you never really view anything as a failure. And you know, actually, I think you know, it becomes sort of self-process prophesizing. Because you might make some you make you might make lots of small mistakes, but you'll you'll make very fewer big mistakes if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Yeah, totally makes sense. And I it's uh I must say it is an absolute pleasure to listen to you. And I I also think that our listeners uh in that podcast are um definitely is very valuable for them. So um uh Neil, thank you so much. Before we leave uh our podcast today, I would like to ask you to kind of summarize your your top five practical hints because I think there's always people listening in to also say, see, you know, what is it I can use right away for me every day in my daily work? How can I apply some of the things that that someone, you know, with that kind of an experience and also with that kind of a success. And I'm gonna repeat, I mean, it it doesn't usually happen that someone taking care of procurement and logistics in a huge company also then adds on, gets added on responsibility for manufacturing, which I think is fascinating and also speaks for you, Neil. Um so that's why it would be nice to hear some practical hints for our listeners here today. Uh, you know, what you what your advice for today could be.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Okay. Um well I I thank you, uh Martine. I I think for me, um yeah, it's uh I'm quite I'd like to think I'm quite a humble person, right? And we all spend an inordinate amount of our personal time at work. Um and you know, for me personally, life's all about making memories, right? And you know, uh, you know, in in all of the seriousness and the detail that we have to get into. Um I guess a couple of a couple of the personal things for me really. Um number one, you know, try and be the reason someone smiles every day, right? Being kind, saying thank you or well done, um, whether it's on an email or in person, um, having been on the receiving end of that, you know, the the value that you know individuals can place on that, just knowing that, oh, actually, you know, taking the time to do this work and it's been read and it's been recognized, you know, saying saying thank you is really important. Uh, and that builds onto you know, making people um and making each other feel valued, that's really important. Um, and obviously creating memories, right? That's uh you know, nobody wants to remember all of the bad stuff. We have a lot of that going on on a day-to-day basis. Um you know, from a procurement perspective, um it's always about doing the right thing, right? And you know, doing the right thing, in my experience, will that'll feed your soul, not your ego, right? And if you've got a mentality where you know you never give up, um, you know, you roll with the punches, as they say, uh, you'll you'll you'll you'll enjoy what you're doing. Um and you know, it's we're we're procurement is an often you know pressurized environment, and it's in the same, you know, in in functions in companies all over the world. Um and I think it as part of that, you know, tempers can get frayed, people can not necessarily display the right behaviors. Um but for me, you know, being kind costs nothing. And in a in a world where you can be anything, being kind, I think in this day and age, you know, without being complacent or without being nasty or being lazy or soft or perceived as soft, uh, you know, in a world where you can be anything, being kind, I think is really, really important.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Wow. You impressed me again today. Uh, I really like your view of you know, doing the right thing feeds your soul, not your ego. Yeah, I think that's important in today's world that, and it it goes into this notion of shouldn't we collaborate a bit more? Should we, you know, should we not be a bit more kind? And it's for some strange reason, it is quickly mixed up with someone getting too complacent, someone not being sharp enough, which is not right. It's just more fun to be with and work with people who you know kind of cheer for each other. Uh in in, you know, and that gets you places, right? That gets you uh that makes you be successful for the company, right? So I I certainly take a lot of things with me, and I I certainly think that our listeners are taking a lot of things with them. So uh again, uh thank you very much, Neil. Uh it is a pleasure. I I love working with you and I love continuing working with you. Thanks a lot for taking the time today and um be safe.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Thank you very much indeed, Martin. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Thank you for joining us on the Procurement Initiative Leaders podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. Looking for more procurement insights, tips, and developments from leading procurement professionals? Join our procurement initiative community on LinkedIn. Just open LinkedIn and search for the Procurement Initiative community and be sure to hit that subscribe button to never miss another episode.