Confession

What does it mean to confess?

In this episode of the Archie & Etta Podcast, we talk about the biblical meaning of confession and why it is so much more than simply admitting we've done something wrong. Throughout Scripture, confession is an invitation into repentance, healing, freedom, and deeper relationship with God.

We explore the difference between guilt and godly conviction, why we confess our sins to God, what it means to confess to one another, and how bringing things into the light breaks the power of shame and secrecy. We also discuss why confession isn't about earning God's forgiveness, but responding to His grace with humility and honesty.

If you've ever struggled with hidden sin, shame, pride, or wondered what genuine repentance looks like, this conversation is for you.

In this episode, we discuss:

•  What the Bible teaches about confession 
•  The difference between confession and repentance 
•  Why God calls us to walk in the light 
•  How confession leads to healing and freedom 
•  Confessing our sins to God and to trusted disciples of Jesus
•  Why grace gives us the courage to be honest 

Key Scriptures:
1 John 1:9
James 5:16
Psalm 32:5
Proverbs 28:13
Romans 10:9–10
Acts 3:19

Confession isn't about condemnation—it's about stepping into the freedom that comes from living honestly before God and walking in the grace of Jesus Christ.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Archie and Edda Podcast, where real conversations meet biblical truth, where husband and wife talk through faith, life, marriage, calling, and culture through the lens of God's Word. Pull up a chair. Let's grow together. Welcome back to the Archie and Edda Podcast. Today we're talking about something I need to confess. Confession. I know. It wasn't very funny. I'll maybe do better next time. And from time to time, our dog may make appearances because she doesn't like to be by herself. Um alright, so confession. So I know that you just uh finished reading a book that made you really um think a lot more about it. And maybe in a new way. So before we get into that, let's do our normal thing and start with what you used to think about confession.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Well, growing up, I would go to church from time to time with my grandmother who had converted to Catholicism for her second husband. And I think that was the first time I heard anyone say the church word confession. Because she was explaining the confessional, she was explaining the rosary.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

She was explaining some of the Catholic rhythms and and rituals and whatnot. Because it was very different from the Protestant church I went to with my family. And um, so yeah, I think early on I had the idea of confession was just for Catholics as a little kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

But then you get into youth group, you know, altar calls and and guest speakers at my Christian school chapels, and and they would be talking about confess your sins, because apparently teenagers only sin in the 90s.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Obviously.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

So then it became something different, it became something shameful and to be avoided. And I never really, I think, had a healthy grasp on what confession meant for a long time. I mean, I think I grew up and started studying the Bible for myself, started studying theology for myself, and getting a better idea about it. But even so, I feel like the Lord is still unfolding the beautiful side of confession, like what he meant by bringing it up in the Bible.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Interesting. Um, so as per normal, I have some uh some nice Bible references, and hopefully we'll touch on on the different dimensions here. Um I and I should say I had a very similar experience um having uh gone to church in both Catholic and Baptist traditions when I was really little, um, because those are in a lot of people in my family. And so uh when we eventually started um when I was in like sixth grade and we started going to a church, that was a Methodist church, so a little different than the the Baptists and the Catholics. But um so confession, 1 John 1 9 says, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, so that he will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Um so this is more uh obviously in this space of how we want to explore what the Bible says about confession. First, first John. Um, but this is really like God is faithful to forgive you because of what Jesus did. Um, and we get this, I think I think part of what goes behind confession, like that first kind of wall of any type of confession, is that we feel like we don't deserve forgiveness or we're not forgiving ourselves, and we're kind of holding on to that. And and it can be like the hard part to like to humble yourself just enough to go, okay, I'm gonna let God forgive me. You know, like there's like a there's a funny thing there. Um, so there's a little bit of honesty in that in that space. I mean, actually, confession is basically just getting honest, you know, uh putting it all on the table. And uh anyway, so we'll we'll bring in some um some Bible references on confession. Um I think the other one I wanted to do now is Psalm 20, or sorry, Psalm 325. I acknowledge my sin to you. I said, I will confess my wrongdoings to the Lord, and you forgave the guilt of my sin. And that's a psalm of David.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Um Okay, I lied one more, which I confess I should not be lying on a podcast about confession. Okay, Proverbs 28, 13, one who conceals his wrongdoings will not prosper, but one who confesses and abandons it will find compassion. And I think that one's beautiful because um God wants to give you the compassion, He wants to forgive you. And uh without getting deep into the theology of uh do you have to confess every sin uh that you've ever committed, I think that's a tricky one.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Oh, like specifically itemize and give them to sit there with God. Give them the IRS tax deduction list of every I think when it comes to specificity, it it depends on what Holy Spirit is convicting you of. If he's convicting you of excuse me, a general tendency, then that's what you should confess and repent of before the Lord. If he's convicting you of a specific event or action with a specific person, then you should confess and repent that to the person and to God. I I think it's the specificity is Holy Spirit led. And and you know it because you're feeling convicted. And you know it's Holy Spirit because he gives you a solution. Like conviction that has no solution, no way of making it right, I think is just condemnation and the enemy trying to accuse you and condemn you and bog you down and get you distracted and not looking at Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

When it's Holy Spirit bringing conviction, there's always a way to make it right as well. There's always a solution because he wants you to can to repent and confess unto righteousness, unto wholeness, and um and and restoration either within yourself, between you and God, or with uh other people, or all three, depending on what Holy Spirit is bringing up.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Uh uh so it seems like there's no way to cheat the system and just write down a list and not ask God.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Um well, I think our consciousness is a pretty good guide too, as long as it hasn't been seared off. I forget which proverb talks about your consciousness being seared off. Um where you just don't feel it anymore. But if if it's there, I think your conscious conscience um is a pretty good guide as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah. There's also some some good scripture about like this is super paraphrasy, but basically, like it's the whole go get right with your brother and sister before you're trying to get right with the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Um yeah, it's um going to the altar to make a sacrifice when it's talking about a Jewish context, or I believe it's even before you take communion. I think Paul talks about it.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah, see in a Christian context. That's exactly what I was gonna say. Which actually communion it makes a lot of sense because that's like an intimate thing. So like you need to uh you need to get the things out of the way before you can be like close and intimate. So that makes a lot of sense. Um what I was uh what I was gonna go to is that it does sound like the Holy Spirit is a little bit of a helper.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

That is what Jesus called him in the Olivet Discourse.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

There you go. Um what's the Olivet Discourse?

SPEAKER_00 9:52

That is Jesus' final teachings, prayers, words to the disciples. Um at in the some start it before the upper, or when he's like in the upper room, and some start it after. It kind of depends on which teacher you're following. But it's basically Jesus' last night before he gets arrested.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

So in John, that's like chapters 13 through 17. That's like the most thorough one. I'm forgetting the exact numbers in the other gospels, but it's it's his last night with the disciples before he gets arrested in the things that he says.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah. Um let's see. My coffee mug is falling apart.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Well, it's losing its paint anyway.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

It will still perform its function. It's just um losing all of its Yeti status. If you're listening Yeti, we would accept a sponsorship. Um good stuff. So I I think the other piece I was just trying to say is uh obviously you brought up your conscience, which is a thing that's like, you know, Lord works through that. Um also sometimes Holy Spirit informs your conscience. Uh however you want to process the uh the brain things and the neuroscience of all of that. Um that's not the topic for today. Um the other one is just directly, like, you know, um something comes up um or something reminds you of it, and you you may find like I'm still holding on to this, or I'm still not forgiving myself of this. And so I think those those can all be moments when Holy Spirit's like, so might want to bring this one up and lay it down, and and uh, and I think beautifully to something you were saying a couple minutes ago, um God wants us to have that in confession um in the first part of what we're talking about. The better the other other part is also very fascinating. We'll get there. But the first part is um goes back to one of our previous episodes because he wants that right relationship with you. And um, and if we're holding on to stuff and we're trying to like hide it and keep it from him and potentially keep it from other people, um, then it's it's like keeping a part of your heart held back. Um I heard a pastor friend of mine years ago used to say, um, you know, God's faithfulness to us, but what's our faithfulness to him? And he's like, You wouldn't, you wouldn't say to your spouse, Well, I'm faithful 364 days a year, but one day a year I'm not. Like uh most spouses would not find that acceptable. Um and and so just in that space, like considering trying to be found faithful um to God, and you know, we're imperfect, like we're gonna have things we need to confess. It doesn't say if you ever find the chance that you do need to confess anything, it's like, well, no, when you when you confess, um, because we know people are gonna need to confess things and we make mistakes and we um we do things we do not intend to do, as Paul would say, um, because of the flesh. And uh, and now that I'm going fully down almost onto another rabbit trail, um this is a beautiful one. So Matthew 10 32, everyone who confesses me before people, I will also confess him before my father who is in heaven. Different kind of confession.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah, it's kind of the positive version of confession.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah, what's a positive confession?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

I would liken it to a Scottish tartan, which is a woven woven fabric that makes up a plaid with a specific color set and a specific pattern. And so like Americans would just look at it and be like, oh, it's plaid.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

It looks like a plaid.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

But it's a very specific plaid and it and it declares visually which Scottish clan or family bloodline you come from.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

So a confession is like a tartan in that you are letting everyone know, hey, I'm in Jesus' family. I am for Jesus, from Jesus, represent representing Jesus, united to Jesus. It's it's saying my life, my bloodline, my loyalties lie with Jesus. Whether you're having some sort of visual thing or verbal thing, in this verse, it's talking about a verbal confession that says, I am of the Lord. As for me and my house, we are of the Lord. It's that sort of declaration or communic. It can't even be quiet, just a communication of yeah, I'm for Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

So what I'm hearing is I should have had a kilt before we recorded this with a very specific Tartan.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

You're not Scottish.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Um, well, there is there is a percentage in there in my European mixing pot that is my genealogy.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

There's there's Scottish, Irish, English.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

I don't remember the Scottish coming up.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Yeah, no, it's there.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah.

unknown 16:00

Nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Um, I don't think you would protest, but um our viewers may and listeners may have some feelings. Um, okay. Uh so one more on this piece, and then we'll I think we'll move on to like, you know, part two. Um, so Acts 3.19, uh absolutely beautiful. If there's a scripture that you really hold on to in the whole first half of this conversation, uh, I hope it would be this one. Therefore, repent in return so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. So it's almost getting into the whole topic of uh repentance, which is a really good one. Um, but this is specifically linking that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. And so sometimes us holding back on confessing something we know we should is keeping us from that beautiful place of the presence. It's keeping us from being refreshed and being renewed in in our minds and our hearts and like all of the the toil and the staleness and the the drained feeling that you just have because you you you're not you know, you've had a minute before it since you've been in that place with God. Um I I did a talk one time called the The Joy of Repentance, and it was really focused on that specific thing is that if you're finding staleness and lacking energy and and feeling like you're far from God, like just start repenting things, but start confessing things really um and and see what happens um because you may just be removing something.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Yeah, you have to confess in order to repent, so it's part of the process.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

There we go.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Theology check. Um step one, confess, step two, repent, step three, times of refreshing. Okay. So um I want to shift into the the second piece of um I think the excitement that you had and something you were reading, which is why we really wanted to address this topic next, which so we call this like you know, second movement. But there's a different facet to confession when it's just you and God, yeah, versus um if you're being discipled with some by someone or you're sitting with someone, um, or or you're just in community and fellowship and you publicly confess something. And that may be one-on-one, it may be in a small group. You may be one of those crazy people that gets up in front of hundreds of people, or like Rich Mullins in front of thousands, and goes, All right, I just gotta get some things off my chest before we can worship. Um, but anyway, so tell us a little about what you're reading, what it said.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Well, I just finished Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Maybe again, because I think you probably read it a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

I actually never read it just excerpts.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Oh, okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

And we were talking about discipleship a couple months back, even before the podcast, and I was feeling like I needed to get a better handle on it and potentially leading it in our church community, and I was like, what better, you know, author to read who really zeroed in on uh Christian community and discipleship than Dietrich Bonhoeffer. And so I was reading his book on that, and I was I got kind of stalled out. I'm not gonna lie. It's a short book, it's so short, but I've been you know momming and it's summer and whatever I got stalled out. But I finally read the last chapter the other day, and I was surprised by it. It was not, it didn't go the way I thought it was gonna go at all. Um, because life together, it's about living in community with other people, but how to do it as a Christian in such a way that everyone is edified and built up in their faith. And that's why I was reading it for discipleship, because it's not just one person on a platform, it's a community walking in discipleship together, which I feel like is better suited to a house church setting, which is our church. Anyway, he was he spent all of these chapters going over all the aspects of fellowship and community in detail theologically as well as practically. And the final chapter is about confession. And he uh talks about how you can be in Christian community, you can be in Christian fellowship, you can be living this Christian life and be doing all the elements correctly and still be alone and lonely if you don't do the last piece, which is confession.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

And I had never tied um neglecting confession with loneliness.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah. It's it's almost like um similarly what we were talking about earlier, but it's almost like when people never get real with you. And it's hard to get to know someone well if they never kind of let you in, they keep you sort of at a pleasant arm's length. Like we'll only talk about popular culture topics and never really about me.

unknown 21:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

What he said, if you don't confess your sins to your brothers and sisters, you're alone in your sins.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

All by myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

And he even addresses the potential objection of, well, I confess all my sins to God. And he he said, Yes, you can do that. But also, how do you know that you're confessing your sin to God or just confessing your sin to yourself? How do you know where your heart is?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Is that like dancing with yourself? It's just really kind of like okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

He's he's basically implying that when it comes to things that are stressful and distressing, things that we're probably ashamed of, like the human heart can be deceitful, the human heart can cause you to become delusional with yourself as means of self-protecting.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

So he's basically implying how do you know that your heart is in a place of humbling itself and confessing to the Lord, or just protecting itself and deluding itself into being like, there, I did it, now I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah, or trying to just be like legalistic, like you feel like you're taking some of the scripture and just saying, like, well, I confessed.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

But but did you?

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Right. And we do hear some of you know the recent scandals in larger church culture. A lot of these men have come out with statements where they said, I confessed to Jesus, and it was all under the blood of Jesus. And there's but nobody knew, and there's other people who are saying, But is that really the same thing as confessing to another person and repenting? And is it really under the blood if it was kept secret?

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

And there's that question floating around that I really haven't heard a good answer for. But here is Bonhoeffer almost a hundred years ago seeing similar things.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

I'm gonna I'm gonna voyage into something to add on to Bonhoeffer that I think ties into the the Acts 319 scripture. Um I think that if you confess something privately to the Lord and you don't actually feel freedom, probably need to confess that to a brother or a sister. Um because you're not gonna find the times of refreshing if you don't feel freedom from the thing, if you feel like you're still stuck in the in the accusation. So, like, when you have confession, right? The Holy Spirit, it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. It's his like it's his goodness and his nearness that we desire, which makes us want to confess and repent.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

And he wants us to be free.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

100% for freedom's sake. Okay, so we could go on and on. Um, but the other part of that is that um, you know, Satan and and demons, fallen angels, they're accusing, and they want you to feel condemned, which is different than something being brought to your attention so that you can get freedom from it. And so when you're feeling condemned, you are currently not in freedom.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Well, condemnation says you are your sin.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Right. So you may not think in that space, you may need a brother or a sister because you may be thinking, This is me, this is who I am, not this is a thing that I can confess and that God can heal me, and then I can move forward with freedom.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Yeah, this the spirit of adoption that Paul talks about in Romans mainly, but in other places, that spirit comes along and says, Jesus died for your sin, you are not your sin. You are a son or or daughter of God through Christ Jesus. And you're able to be set free. You are able to be more than that. I mean, I think that's why one of the reasons chapter eight starts with there's therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Um so I think where I was trying to go with that too is that maybe a good tip for if you're out there and you're holding on to something maybe a little bit and you're not sure, um maybe let it go. Maybe say it um with a brother and sister in confidence. Um, and if you don't have a person like that, um pray for the Lord to put that person in your life because um makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Yeah. Um well Bonhoeffer talked about that in the chapter.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

It matters who you confess to. Why is that he was saying it should be a brother in Christ, which he quantifies as someone who is walking in discipleship where they themselves are being discipled and they are discipling others. And basically, I think what he means by that is someone who is sincere in their walk with Christ. Yeah, they're not just doing it as a social calendar, they're not just doing it as like a club, they're not doing it casually. He's talking about someone who is for real following Jesus, someone who for real believes the word of God and is trying to be faithful to it because I forget which gospel it's in, but it talks about how Jesus gave his disciples the ability to forgive sins. And so when you are confessing to what he calls a true brother, when you're confessing to a true disciple of Jesus, you're confessing to someone who has been given the authority to forgive that sin as a physical proxy of as if Jesus himself were forgiving that sin.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

And I think that kind of speaks to something you were saying a minute ago of when you're just confessing by yourself, you can't stand as that proxy to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

And there's something powerful about that tangible tactile experience of another person's intercession looking you in the eye and instead of giving you condemnation, giving you the love, acceptance, forgiveness of Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

So you're expecting to be condemned, you're expecting to be rejected, yeah, you're expecting all of these things that kept you in this hiding, holding place, and instead you're met with love, you're met with forgiveness, you're met with acceptance, and it does something in your heart, it does something in your nervous system, it does something in your mind that is the renewing, that is the setting free, that is the reset where you can let it go, you can move forward in the freedom that's promised. Because this person standing in proxy of Jesus, given that authority, can forgive it, and then it's forgiven. You are forgiven.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Um, I'm glad that you went there because that's where I was hoping um that we would circle back to. But there is losing my train.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Lost the train. Should I say the other the other part of that that Bonhoeff brought up?

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Almost. Almost. I think it's coming back. Bear with me. Um I'm very human. So I think the other piece of, I know earlier I was saying some of the reasons that we hold back from confession. I think the other one is that we're worried about what other people think of us.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Especially if it's someone who we're in community with or someone that we respect. What are they gonna think of me if I tell them this? And sometimes we think, you know, this is a thing, I'll just work this out with God. And sometimes it's like, no, that's too shameful. I don't want people to know that I did this or I think this or what whatever, whatever that might be, or I'm holding on to this thing because I am still angry at this person for whatever, you know, it could be so many things. But I think we we over-index on worrying about what that person is going to think, and and actually, if they are a person, like Bonhoeffer described, like you just explained, that when you bring that thing to them, you will find the compassion of the Lord, and you will find this relief of like, oh my gosh, I can still be loved in that space, and it's separate from the thing, you know. The Bible says so much about um, you know, love the sinner, hate the sin, and it's separating those two things. And when you when you do bring something to someone who is um who is that type of disciple, um, which remember that can be all of us. We've covered that previously. Yeah, you you too can be a disciple of Jesus for the low price of no, I'm just kidding. Um I know that's why I yeah, that's a joke. Um uh a good joke. We're not selling discipleship, it's not a subscription model. Okay, uh okay. Hey, look, we have to have like little satirical moments for my own personal amusement, but the real stuff is we um you will find the freedom and the peace if you break through there, and you'll find the compassion with that person. Um refreshing and just so good for you to start to like peel things away if you've not done this.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Well, it brings light to the situation, it brings light to the sin, it brings light to the mistake, whatever it is. It brings light to it. It's it's known, it's no longer hidden, it's no longer secret. This other person or couple of persons now knows about it.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah, and the enemy loves to use things and leverage and they're secret.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Right. That's what I was gonna say. It it's a kindness to you that you don't know, it's a freedom that you don't know you need in that later when you're home in your bed, you know, awake thinking about everything, which I guess not everyone has trouble sleeping. But the one for the ones who do, they're usually thinking about all that kind of stuff when they can't sleep. And the enemy wants to come and say, ooh, if they don't, you know, if it's known this sin, then you'll be rejected, then you'll be this, then you'll be that.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

The enemy tries to get you back into that place of screw tape letters, of of shame and condemnation, and you can say, No, actually, I brought that into the light. Actually, I brought that before my brothers and sisters in Christ. I confess that, and here's how it was meant. And you have this experience that you can then combat that mental battle, that spiritual warfare type. You can say, Here's the truth that I have now lived and experienced and know.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

And you're, you know, it's a safeguard against getting pulled back into that bondage.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

So you just reminded me, I kind of blurted it out because I got too excited, but you reminded me of Screw Tape Letter. So C.S. Lewis, if you haven't read it, it's an incredibly chilling book. Um, but it it really describes what's happening in the spiritual places. And so it's it's all of these slow erosions, little degradations, um, and and little tricks of the enemy and his followers to try and slowly take you into the depths of hell. Anyway, simple way to put it. Um, but they're essentially just these conversations that demons are having and discussing their tactics. And I'm sure there's multiple quotes from it where it's like, look, all you gotta do is get them to keep this secret, and then you're good. And it's like all these little tiny things that we think, oh, this isn't that big of a deal. And you know, in the grand scheme, right? It's not your salvation, but it would be the difference between living life abundantly and being able to like bless people from a place of overflow because you feel right with God versus a place of like just constant struggle because you're you're in a battle that you could just give to God.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Right. That book is good at showing how the small justifications, the small validations, the small omissions eventually grow to larger and larger until it's your whole life is fruitless. Protecting those justifications, those validations, those omissions, those sleight of hands. It's the entrapment.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Into bondage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

I didn't know we were gonna get into screw tape letters today. Um, but also another short read.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Um I honestly, it's been over 20 years since I read that book. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

So good, but it's very it it's it's not a fast read, but it's a short book because you read it and you you think and you're like chilled, like, oh my gosh, oh, that's the real thing. That's what happens. And um, okay, what was the other thing I was thinking about? Um, oh, the other beautiful thing is I think this the step beyond that, too. So if you're able to find somebody that you can go and have that conversation with in a one-on-one setting or small group, and you can confess to, that also opens you up to the understanding. So you'll see this in some of our previous conversations, like thinking about the next thing, is then you learn also in that space how to be a person who sits with someone who is confessing things and how to love them through that. And in my experience, I don't think you will find other ways to become closer with other humans than when you go to those places together and you confess and you walk through them with the Lord and with the Holy Spirit's help, and you find some very beautiful friends and some very close things that you otherwise, you know, just like confessing to the Lord brings you that intimacy. Also confessing with the brother or sister, it just it it bonds you. I think you were talking about that a little bit from the Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah, a little bit. Because then you are being completely known. You know others because they're confessing to you in when you're in this Christian community, and they know you because you've confessed to them.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

I just I just realized something that everyone listening probably already knows this. But it just occurred to me that we should probably explain it a little bit. Um, confession is not gossip.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

No.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

So what's the difference?

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Well, gossip is, I believe, at its core the black market of social power. It's knowing something that can be leveraged.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Knowing secrets. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Where you can now have control over this person because you know this thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

That they don't want known.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

So to me, gossip, you're not talking about yourself, you're talking about someone else. And you're not talking about them in a loving way. You're talking about them in a leverage dealing in in leverage and power.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

But in a really dark, ugly way. Like there's no nothing loving about trying to gain power over someone through their shameful things.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

I I think part of it is is I I think you said well, but I I think the other thing is like gossip is usually has such a different intent, which is what you were kind of saying. Then, you know, confession is like you want to get right, you want healing, you want things to be good. Um, and it's specifically like, here are my wrongdoings. Right. And confess like trying to gossip is actually like here's other people's problems, and focusing on other people.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Even the person who's spreading the knowledge, they are receiving power of attention. So maybe they're not trying to leverage someone to do something for them, they're just leveraging them in order to gain attention and acceptance and whatever it is. Yeah. So it's still social power and it's not loving, and it's not, like you said, your own thing. Yeah. If it's your own thing that you're giving freely, there's nothing to leverage.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Yeah. So let this be an um a reminder to everyone that you are only called to confess for your own sake. Now you can intercede for brothers and sisters, but you are not called to confess on their behalf to others.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, I think anyone who grew up in church is well aware of the prayer chain, the prayer circle.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

I didn't want to say it. But yes. It's there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

It's there. And and how it is anything but prayer. It is just here's all the dirt.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

I think that if you are in that type of community. You know, Jimmy's in jail again. You should only share that which someone else has already either publicly shared or given you specific permission to share.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Otherwise, just say, hey, we should lift up so and so and leave it at that. Because the Lord knows. You don't have to say unspoken prayer request, because that is just wait way to build a pretext around it.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

I have an unspoken, you're speaking right now.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

It is the Holy Spirit knows what between besties. That is what that means.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

I'm just going to pour this gasoline all over us and see what happens. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Nope. All you have to do is lift up the name of the person and leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Yep. So maybe at another time we'll come back and explain what is a healthy way to have a prayer chain, because I feel like that's just going to be too much there. But I think it goes back to a lot of the the intent instead of like a dumping ground and also doing the work of intercession yourself for things the Lord puts a burden on your heart for. But that's a whole world of things.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

That's a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Yeah, that's different than confession. Um, while it's beautiful and coming from the right place, and I know you could go on for episodes and episodes about that. Uh anything that we didn't cover that we should have covered about confession.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

I I feel like it needs saying that. I don't agree with I I don't know if it's still as prevalent as it used to be. But I grew up in an area where young people making mistakes were forced to get up in front of the whole church. And I was a part of a large church. So this is thousands of people and then confess their sin and make public their most shameful mistake as young people. It was often teens or early 20s people who were made to do it. Often young couples who know. We're just talking about long-term commitment now. I I don't agree with that. I don't think that confession is unto healing and restoration. I think that's really damaging to the community because now that prayer chain lighter fuel is not just the prayer ladies. It is now thousands of people being pulled into this salacious gossip.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Yeah, it becomes about the drama and and about you know about sort of I don't I don't want to say exactly pride, but it but it becomes about well I'm following the rules better than them, so I'm putting them down here and it makes me feel better about my stuff.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Instead of just like worrying about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Also, I think that that particular type of confession, instead of giving at least my my lived experience of it, was even. Instead of giving them restoration and giving them an experience where they can combat the lies of the enemy in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

You have now handed weapons to the enemy.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

You're like adding accusers.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

The accusing enemy in the middle of the night is saying, see, you had to go and and and expose your shame publicly. It turns into a shame and condemnation in and of itself.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

It's almost like some people get hurt in churches sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Because there's people there.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Yep. And I'm I'm sure there's still some churches where they make people do this. I I don't think that it I've never heard a personal testimony of someone, old or young, who went through that and said, I was so restored afterward. No, they were traumatized usually. Yeah. It was usually something they were still experiencing as if it had just happened yesterday in their emotions and their nervous systems. I don't think the Lord wants that.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

You also will not find a passage of scripture that in the especially for sure in the New Testament that says, whenever you sin, go before the entire gathering of believers and be shamed publicly.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

No. I I think that it should be a small group of mature people who are going to offer the love of Jesus, who are going to then walk with those pe if it's young people, it's gonna walk with them through rebuilding.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Thousands of people aren't gonna remember these people's names and walk with them and show them love.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

And they're not gonna take the time.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

And they're not no, it should be a small group that's then going to actually walk through discipleship, walk through what do we do now to make things restored and right and and rebuilding.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Yeah. I I think I'm glad we went there because there's another thing that we we said one side of, but we didn't say the other side. So we explained why it's really good to do this with someone who is a disciple, someone who has a measure of maturity to sit with. Um, because if you do go to someone who's immature, um, or you know, someone who's new doesn't have this understanding, or just has not gone into physically too young. Physically too young.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

You don't confess to a teenager, they don't know what to do with that.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah, that that's kind of putting a rude burden on them.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

People confess to me as a teenager, I did not know what to do, I did not handle it well.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah. Um, so the the other piece of that is you're probably not going to find the the fullness of the grace and the compassion that the Lord wants to give you if you just go and confess to someone who doesn't have a measure of maturity.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Uh, because they're not gonna really know what to do with it. It and they're probably not gonna be that familiar with what God thinks about it.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Gossip or it turns into all the things you don't want it to turn into.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Or they condemn you.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Or they condemn you.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

And then you're both traumatized.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

Um, so it's not honoring to yourself, it's not honoring to the other person. Um, and again, to take away any possible outs. If you don't feel like you have that person in your life, pray for there to be for God to reveal them.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Mm-hmm. So, yeah. I I also wanted to bring up the other side of confession that Bonhoeffer brought up that I thought was actually really important. Where he was talking about the person hearing the confession.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

He had it was almost like a side note. It was almost a throwaway comment, but it was it was half of a paragraph, but it was so weighty and necessary in those couple of sentences. Because he was saying how in your community there should not be one person hearing all the confessions.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Because it's too big of a burden to carry for one person. And he said, even two, it should be more than two.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Even two isn't enough. Because he said it's too big a burden to bear, and it creates a callous on that person's soul. A cynicism, a jadedness, yeah, a um a loss of I think I'm trying to think of how he phrased it, but it was basically that person sort of loses the ability to then meet you in love and meet you with Christ's love and forgiveness because it's all I've heard it all, I've heard this before. I've sure, okay, yeah, you're forgiven. If they're just getting that all the time, experiencing what they're meant to experience.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Like you should be confessing to more than one or two people in a community. It should be all of us bearing each other's burdens. I think that's what that means.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

That's almost what the scripture says.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

That's you're right. I'm quoting the score uh scripture. Yeah. It's it's a group effort so that no one person gets weighed down, either in their own personal sin or in carrying the sins of everyone.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

So it's it's for mercy's sake that you don't just go to the one person. And I think that's a human tendency to be like, oh, well, this person is mature. Oh, well, this person handled it so great last time. Oh, well, this person, you know, X, Y, and Z reason. Right. But they shouldn't be the one who become the one person who hears everything. Or, you know, in some Christian traditions, like the Catholic tradition, there's the priest who's the confessor who hears everything. Or I think in Protestant traditions, it's the pastor, the senior pastor. Everyone has to go talk to the senior pastor, and he hears. If it's a large church, that is potentially thousands of people's burdens that he now has to hear and then bear and then process and then love anyway. There's a that's cruel actually towards that person.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

There is there's some funny thing, even in the Protestant churches, where people have, and it's a part of the culture where they feel like I have to do this with the senior pastor, or it doesn't count.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

It doesn't count.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Like we both have the same thought.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Because it's the unspoken, everyone knows it.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Yeah, if you grow up in church, I gotta go to the highest authority I know, and then God's gonna be like, okay, okay, you did it. No, it's yeah, it's um so we got we have some things to let go of, and and I think to love other people well, um I it's a very good point about considering the person that you are confessing with, confessing to, and then also to God with them. Um I guess it's one thing if you're the one person who is confessing to them, um, but if they are the person who just everyone is going to, then that is a that is a pretty rough burden. Consider putting yourself in that shoes if you had to hear everyone else's burdens, what that would be like for you. Um, it would definitely drain you. Yeah. I I will say a beautiful phrase I heard from a friend um who has been walking and discipling people um in just such a gracious way. And one of my other friends was explaining something that they had had a conversation about and um and how he was so loving and hearing his confession. And and the guy just said, It's my honor. And I cried. Um, but it's such it's such a beautiful thing where he he put himself in the seat of going, it's literally my honor to hear your confession and help you through this thing and walk with you and help you find that freedom. And that is that is the beautiful piece of it.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

And I'm not crying right now. Yeah, you are, yeah, yeah. Okay. Unfortunately, it's time to end.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

You already have the gift of tears, might as well pray.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Um right. Um so, Father, we confess these are real tears. Um, but God, we just thank you for the gift of confession and the freedom that you intend through that. Um God, I just pray that our hearts and everyone who's listening, our hearts would just be softened and that we would just start to be able to peel away those things that keep us from confession, that keep us from repentance, that keep us from the times of refreshing that flow from the presence of the Lord. God, we just desire to be near to you. We desire to be in your presence. And God, we know that you didn't intend for us to be alone. And you told Adam that in the garden, God. And so we we know that in making connection and friendship, um, and to have brothers and sisters uh who we can run with and have community and fellowship, that this is an important piece. And so, God, we just pray that you'd help us to get over ourselves and to get closer to you. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Why am I still crying?

SPEAKER_00 55:06

She's big softy.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

This is embarrassing. I should cut this. Thanks for listening to the Archie and Edda podcast. We hope this conversation encouraged your faith, challenged your thinking, and pointed you back to God's word. Until next time, keep walking with Jesus, keep loving well, and keep leaning in to what God is speaking.