Welcome to Sea of Whales, the whale geek podcast where whale watching and whale research meet. I'm your host, Shauna Prince, scientist and whale watch operator, bringing you conversations with whale researchers, and ocean experts from around the globe. Let's dive in Today we're joined by Julie Huntington of the Whale Release and Stranding Group. Welcome, Julie. Hi, Shawna. Thanks for joining me today. Um, Julie and Wayne were, uh, on our last episode, and I think we ended by saying, "I hope we don't see you until you're out here berry picking." And then we had to call them on Wednesday. Um, so we had, uh, found an entangled humpback whale. Um, we were out looking for whales on our Wednesday morning trip, and were having a hard time finding any. There were a lot of seiners in the bay, um, and headed across between Bonaventure Head and Horse Chops and found an animal, uh, just by seeing the, uh, the white pectoral fins kinda glowing under the surface. And the whale was surfacing rather strangely, um, so not with the blowhole coming up first and not with a dorsal fin when it was coming up, and it, it became really obvious, uh, that it was We saw three surfaces of the same whale, and it became obvious that there was a problem. And then on the third surface, it turned its head towards us, and we could see the rope over its head, so we knew, um, that there was something on the go. So I don't know how we had cell signal out there 'cause usually we don't. Uh, but we were able to make a quick call to Wayne and Julie, who came out, um, from St. John's and were ready to go. But sadly, that day the wind had increased so much that it, it wasn't possible for them to get out and do any work on the whale, so they headed out early Thursday morning. Um, and, uh, yeah. Well, I guess that's where we'll start from there. So I think it's important for people to realize that, you know, when we're whale watching, the conditions that we can be out in are a little bit different than you, who need to be hanging over the side of a boat trying to see, you know, what kinda gear is on this whale, uh, and cutting it off. So, um, your, your sort of level of conditions that you can be out in is very different. Um, you know, so it makes it much harder. What you do, my goodness, let me tell you, is, uh, it, it's such important work, but I know it's hard work. So wanna tell me, um, sorta what you saw when you got to the whale? Well, we saw what you described. Mm-hmm. A whale that was just surfacing. Mm-hmm. Just, it, uh, like- Fighting, yeah it was trying to come up and breathe. Mm-hmm. And, and that it, it remained that way for a long time. Mm-hmm. But as we got more and more, uh, ropes and netting off of it, it surfaced higher and higher. But even when we got, uh, the majority of the gear off the whale, it still could not lift its tail, which was kind of indicative to us that it had been entangled for some time. Mm-hmm. It had gear on it. It had a, a, a cod, uh, um, gill net on it. Mm-hmm. And other gear that was quite heavy. It was like an inch rope, and that rope had, uh, this kind of, um, invertebrate called an oc- to corrala or acto- Mm-hmm corallas and, and, and it's, and it takes like a year for it to grow to the size it grew to. So- Oh. We don't know what gear was first- Mm-hmm or if it picked up, you know, some gear, uh, but it did seem like the m- the heavy gear, uh, was, you know, through its mouth. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, the gill net was through its mouth. So what, what you were seeing from the surface was the, the pectoral fins out wide like a T. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But when we looked underwater, you know, on the back there wasn't a lot, and then- Mm-hmm when you looked under the body of the whale, there was this like entire gill net down there- Crazy from the mouth- From the mouth to the tail. Yeah. Yeah. So it really looked like, and when we had told you that, like it looked like she was hogtied, so like head to tail. Like, she was really like kind of in a C shape and battling them for every breath, so. Yeah. Um, you know, kinda, I mean, really crazy. So when you, when you were working on the whale, I understand that there was some gear that was particularly difficult to get off. You wanna talk about that? Well, all, all of the- All of it was not easy. Yeah almost like all difficult. Um, first of all, can I say that we- Yeah we, people came by and wanted to offer help to, uh, dive in the water and help us, and, and that is not something any whale group does. Mm-mm. No detangling groups go underwater to disentangle a whale because of the danger to themselves. Yeah. If they got caught in any of that gear and the whale moved a little bit, that could cau- you know, cause an embolism and, and, and, and death, and that's what's occurred- Mm-hmm people who have gone underwater. Mm-hmm. Not everyone, but w- you know, people have died, uh, trying to disentangle a whale under the water. Mm-hmm. That's why we work from the surface with specialized tools, and those tools are either something to get hold of the gear- Yes or to g- cut the, the- Yes. Yeah and, and, uh, um, so we, we looked underwater and we saw the first thing that we thought we could work with was a rope around the whale's head. It was around the top- Mm-hmm of the whale. Which is what we saw. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that was the first rope that we cut was that one. Yep. Mm-hmm. 'Cause that alone would, you know, start freeing its mouth from, uh, being completely held onto the- Mm-hmm uh, the, um, the tail fin. Yes. Uh. Right? Yeah. And- Yeah and we, uh, um- Uh, we cut that, and we were looking at other things to cut. It was difficult. We ended up bringing up a huge snarl of, uh, of netting and, uh, lead rope and this heavy, heavy rope that- Mm-hmm that had this octocoral on it. Mm-hmm. This growth of this animal. And, and we got that. We brought that up to the boat, um- Mm-hmm as we could, and we cut that, and we ended up bringing that over to the DFO conservation officer's boat- Mm-hmm and putting it on, on board their boat. Um, and, uh, yeah. It, uh- It was- It's a lot of gear messy and a lot of, a lot of gear. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. A lot of gear to pull up. But that allowed the whale, you know, a lot more movement, but it was still attached head to tail. Mm-hmm. So we went in working underneath, mostly underneath the right side, like you could say armpit, between the- Mm-hmm. Yep the pec- Pectoral fin fin and inside. Yeah. And, uh, we were able to, uh, grapple the gear and, and, and cut it, and then when I look at the video afterwards, we were able to get all of that netting that was between the head and the tail, and we brought that up in another clump. Mm-hmm. So, uh, uh, that- that's difficult because, you know, you think a rope you can maybe cut if there's tension on it. Mm-hmm. But when you have a gill net, it's, it's much more- Mm snarly and- Yes. Yeah you know, you think it's thin and easy, but it, it tends to knot up in different ways. Yes. Yeah. We were able to get that off. Uh, that, I was, like, very impressed with the new person working with us. He was able to, uh He's not new. He's worked with us this full season. Mm-hmm. A- and we, and we were able to bring that on board, get- Mm-hmm get that off of the whale. Yeah. And that left us with a few more things that we worked on. Uh, uh, it w- and the whale was able to bring its back right up, so we were- Nice. Yeah very happy for that. Yeah. It never brought its tail up. Mm-hmm. And I think that's because what happens when, when a whale gets, uh, entangled and they're entangled for a long time, it's just like if you sat in a position for a long time, or if you were- Sure, yeah like, in traction and- Yeah and your limb was in one position for a while. It takes a while to understand that you can move it again. Yeah. And then you'd be stiff. And then- Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, uh, that's what we ended up with, is, uh, w- there may have been some left on the whale, uh, but the whale went on and, um, it You sent us a picture of a whale that had had gear on it, and we're still trying to check if that's the- Mm-hmm whale w- with the, that had the gear on it or talk to the, the person that took the photos. We haven't yet. We sent out an, uh, an email and- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm get more information, what time he took those pictures and- Yeah. Yeah and if he had any more of the back, you know, of the whale. Yes, 'cause that would get you a little bit more. Yeah. Because you have dorsal shots, right? You have- Yeah dorsal fin shots? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, dorsals can be matched fairly reliably sometimes, so that would certainly help, right? But that whale that was spotted off Buena Vista, I mean- The, the scarring that's on it is significant. So I mean, that whale has for sure been entangled. Whether or not it's this whale, because as you say, you know, it didn't bring its tail out, um, and that's sort of the license plate that it displays for us so that we can tell who it is. So, um, I would expect also when that whale heals up that there will be significant, you know, white marking on that black skin, um, where it was wrapped up, right? So you said that this whale, you had to leave it with a little bit of gear on it still. So was that around the, the peduncle? Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I mean, it, it just went on and we saw that it was moving, so, uh, um- Mm-hmm and, you know, that's unfortunate. It's something we You know, we're almost ashamed of, but- Yeah It had some gear on it, but it was like we were so close to the tail- Mm-hmm that it was gonna a- the rope was gonna be able to unravel itself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, if this is the whale that was spotted off Bona Vista, it does not have gear on it anymore. So, um, so you were in a position where the whale was all, all the rest of it was free and it could move, and it did move, and then it's in a situation where like do we risk it when you have this whale that has all this mobility now to try to cut off that one last piece or do you leave it to let it, you know- Mm loosen up and hopefully come off on its own? And that's, you know, a decision that I respect that you have to make sometimes and, you know. But not being tied head to tail is a very big step for that animal. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Right? Uh-huh. That's right. So like that's a huge one. Really battling for every breath, you know, when we saw it. I've not ever seen a whale behave that way before. Um, and- No, and it wasn't doing that when it got lo- you know, when, when it got the- Yeah, right disengaged Yeah. Like, wow. Just being able to have a normal breath and not have to battle to get to the surface to breathe. Yeah. So the gear that you cut off was very heavy you said. Mm-hmm. Yeah. There was a rope in it and- Yeah and, and then there was this like inch rope which is like some kind of old gear. We got a number- Mm off of the, uh, the gill net. We've given it to fisheries and- Mm-hmm and they'll, uh, hopefully be able to trace where and when- Yeah the tag was put on the gear. So- Mm-hmm. Ex- We'll g- we'll get some kn- knowledge from that. Yeah. So we do know then it's a Cana- it's Canadian fishing gear at the very least, so we do know that it's from, you know? Yeah. Or do we even know that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There was marking that showed Newfoundland gear. Okay. Yeah. So- So it's not been towing it from like the Caribbean or somewhere. No. No. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I think, I mean, it's a good, it's a success story, right? To be able to do this. And I know that I've been around and you all have been there before, uh, on the Somerville rescue we talked about on the last episode of just like everybody wants to talk to you when you come in and whatever. I mean, it's a, it's a crazy job. Uh, and it's certainly not It's something that everybody wishes they could do but absolutely cannot, right? So I mean, that's a, you know, that's a thing. And, and we really- But being able to help- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We really appreciate the offer, but, uh, it's, it's like- I'm just looking at the gear now. It's, it's just dangerous. Mm-hmm. It's, it's dangerous to, uh, uh Well, it's dangerous for us- Yes and we're, we have the equipment. Mm-hmm. But, uh, for someone else to move in there and think that, uh, the whale's gonna remain calm while they work on it is, uh- Yeah, that's not always how it goes. Yeah. And you have to make a decision at some point about, you know, your own safety and what's in the best interest of the animal and, you know- Yeah go from there. Weigh it, weigh, you know, weigh it all and see what's, what's best. Um, what kind of gear I did hear that in the end with the lead line you had to cut it old school like they would have in the '70s with, like, a knife, um, because nothing else would work on that. So what are you normally using? I've seen some of your gear, but can you explain it to people who are listening? Like, what kinds of things do you have? Okay. So we use a, a knife that was, uh, like designed by Wayne, and it's a hook and it's got, um, some, uh, razor blades in it, razor-sharp blades, serrated blades- Mm in it that we replace all of the time. Um, but- Then we have another, a specialized tool that has four of those blades together. Mm-hmm. And a weight on the bottom of it so it will sink- Mm-hmm quicker, hopefully. Yeah. And, and, and we were using both of those. W- the one, the single one we were using on a pole, uh, so it was a pole knife. Mm-hmm. And the other one we used on the end of a rope. So that's where we were able to move in close- Mm-hmm and then, uh, throw it to the point that we wanted it to get in the gear. And then it got caught in the gear, and then we could feel when it, uh, uh, broke through, uh, this- Yes. Yeah. Yeah 'cause it slices. It's pretty good at slicing through. Although this one, when it was caught in, uh, the gill nets, it did, it did bend. So we were- Wow quite surprised to get it back on- Wow with this bend in it and- Yeah, yeah um, yeah. Yeah. So you've got everything reset, repaired, ready to go for the next call? Yeah, that night. Uh, well, the ne- yeah, that night when we came home, we took it all apart. Yeah. Washed everything down, got ready, and- Yeah. 'Cause you never know. I mean, you might not get a call for the rest of the summer, and you get, might get one in an hour, right? Like, it's- Right it's really hard to say. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I'll be really interested to find out if it is that whale that was off Bonavista, because if she swam all the way from Trinity to Bonavista, though I realize in terms of how far these whales travel that's very short distance, but it means that everything's working well. Right. And, you know, she's otherwise, you know, doing well because we really, you know, we really don't know, um, sometimes what happens and where they go and, and those kinds of things. Like you said, because we don't get tail shots, they don't, they're not doing always the normal whale things, right? Yeah. Like the big deep dives and, and all of those kinds of things. So, um, you know, really, really neat to see if it is one of those. And I'm sure for you guys too to be like, you know- Yeah the kids are all right kind of thing. Yeah, we would be happy. Yeah. Yeah. So it would be really nice to know. Our purpose is to disentangle the whale so that it can go on with its life activities. Yes, yes. You know? So that it can recreate and, and, and- Yeah eat and, um, so if anything impedes that, then Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, when whales have gear in their mouths, so baleen is kind of bristly, so it'd be like- Mm getting it stuck in a bush, right? Mm-hmm. So then, um, so you cut what you can see on either side. Are you able to pull it out, like, from one side to the other? Or what, what do you do there? That would damage the baleen- Mm and we've seen whales with part baleen sticking out of their mouths, so- Yes, I've seen that before we don't recommend any pulling of the rope out of the whale's mouth. Mm-hmm. What we do is cut as close to the mouth as possible, and then our, our belief is that that whale will, uh, somehow- Shed it, yeah spit out that, shed that gear. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I wondered about that. We had, um- We had a bowhead that was in Bonavista Bay maybe a decade ago-ish, uh, and its baleen was, like, stuck out weird from one side. Yeah. Yeah. And I wondered. But their baleen, of course, is, like, two meters long where the bow is the biggest, and so it is a lot larger than what we're used to seeing in the baleen whales we have around here also. Um, but that whale wasn't in great shape when it came in, put it that way. Yeah. So, you know, you wonder about what else has happened in that animal's life, for sure. Um, yeah. So how many humpbacks have you had to, had to respond to this year? There's, uh, this year been 20 that we have responded- Wow at least with, uh- Yeah education and- Yeah and documentation. Yeah. But, uh, specifically with regards to disentanglement, I'd say we're more, more around six. And were they all humpbacks? I'm just wondering Uh, the ones that we worked on- Mm-hmm uh, were all humpbacks, yeah Because I wonder if the one off Bona Vista is one that maybe you disentangled, you know, a couple of weeks ago, right? Yeah, could be. Which is definitely possible too, right? Mm-hmm. So there's more than one- I know that's- whale out there with entanglement scars on it right now, fresh ones, right? So yeah. And I mean, they move all around here, as we know, when people are taking pictures and you're starting to see the records on the map. So it's, you know, it's definitely possible that somebody you worked on in another bay is now up here and then moving on. Yeah. And the same with this whale that you've just cut out from here. So, um, it'll be interesting to see as time goes on, you know, what we can find, if you're able to match the dorsals or if we see it again. Um, you know, what, you know, what will this whale's story be? And sometimes I really... I think of them as, like, old-timers, you know? And if you could sit at their knee and have them tell you a story, um, you know, what kinds of things have they seen and been involved with, and sticky situations they got into through their lives. You know, between the orca scarring we see and the entanglement scars and the, the crazy amounts of travel they do to and from the breeding and calving grounds and to the feeding grounds. You know, it's just sort of interesting, um, you know, if they could tell us their stories, what would they say, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That would be- So neat it would be fascinating. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, anything else you wanna, like, put out there to the public while we have the recording happening of things to... I know we did a little bit last time. Well, we really appreciate it. Yeah, I know worries. Yeah, we really appreciate, uh, being notified, uh, then we do our best to get to the site as soon as we can- Mm-hmm weather dependent and distance dependent. Um, and if people notify us, we do let, uh, DFO conservation officers know, so those are- Mm another eyes on the water- Yes that are, are locating whales that have gear on them. But specifically, it, I think I s- we said it before, how, how dangerous it can be to approach a whale with gear on it. Mm-hmm. If it has trailing gear, and most likely it has something trailing, and you don't wanna wrap that around your propeller and- That's what our concern was. So when, first of all, that the animal was stressed- Mm-hmm and we didn't want to be any closer than we needed to be. And then this animal's clearly tangled badly, and where is that that we can't see? 'Cause if it's, like, netting and you can't see the ropes, I mean, that could end up wrapped around us without... You know? So we just, as soon as we knew it was entangled, it was just, like, you know, back off and give it its space, call you guys- Mm. Mm-hmm and then, you know, hope for the best. Hope that it stays in the same place. That was the thing. But because- Yeah it was so badly entangled- Mm um, fortunately that one wasn't moving. 'Cause I know we've called you before, but when they're on the move, it's really hard. I mean, you can't- Yes. Right? You can't travel as fast as they can. And- No you know, you know, if they're free- free swimming, it makes it really difficult, right? Mm-hmm. So, um, I've, I've, you know, I'm just so grateful that you guys are here, that there is someone we can call instead of having to watch it unfold without there really being any help, um, or expertise. So I think, you know, I can't stress enough that what you do is so vitally important to these animals and for this region, and just thank you very, very much for the time that you guys put in. Um, you know, appreciate it. I appreciate you. Yeah. Thanks, Shawna. No worries. Thank you for your interest and spreading the word. Oh, my goodness. I think it's so important for people just to know. I mean, it can really... If you don't know who to call, it can certainly delay. It's so rare now that there's a person on the other end of a line when you call, so leaving a message or dealing with an automated service or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. So if you know the direct line to call, um, you know, then it makes it so, so, so much easier. Um, I've got you guys programmed into my phone, but you wanna give people the phone number again? Uh, yeah. I- it's, uh, 1-888-895-3003. Perfect. Or, you know, 709- Yeah 895-3003. Perfect. Awesome. Thank you very much. And they'll come out and help or they'll advise you on what to do. Um, and, and you know, like you said, fisheries has been a big, a big resource. And, and the two that came to help from Bonavista were awesome. Mm-hmm. And for you guys to just have somewhere to put all that gear so that you're not, you know, ri- running the risk of being tangled in it while it's around your feet in your Zodiac is super important too, right? So yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me today. Shawna- I really appreciate it, and let me know if you hear of that whale being spotted anywhere, and I'll certainly keep you posted, um- Okay if we hear about it. Awesome thank you so much.