Father Frank Pavone: Why the Church Must Lead the Pro-Life Movement

Rev. Bill Cook sits down with Father Frank Pavone of Priests for Life to discuss the mission of pro-life advocacy, the healing work of Silent No More and Rachel’s Vineyard, and the church’s responsibility in addressing abortion as a pastoral issue. They emphasize the value of every human life, the importance of active engagement, and reflect on the broader implications of violence against life.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction and Honoring Charlie Kirk
01:47 The Mission of Priests for Life
03:37 Silent No More and Healing After Abortion
05:52 Rachel's Vineyard: A Healing Retreat
08:01 Understanding Poverty and the Value of Life
10:15 Experiences with Mother Teresa
12:03 The Connection Between Poverty and Abortion
14:22 Creating a Culture of Life in the Church
18:34 Addressing the Silence on Abortion
20:45 The Impact of Abortion on Society
23:28 The Role of Pastors in the Pro-Life Movement
29:00 Engaging with Abortion Clinics
33:26 Conclusion and Call to Action

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Well, hello, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us for the September 16, 2025 edition of the America's Black Robe Regiment podcast. We're glad you're with us today. Thanks for joining us. Today we're honored to have with us Father Frank Bavone with Priests for Life. We met recently at a pastor's conference in Williamsburg, Virginia. He gave me a copy of his recent book, which I'm going to put up right now so you can see it. And then maybe go to Amazon.com and order it. It shows up in reverse on my camera, but anyway. Um it's calling Proclaiming the Message of Life. Something we all should be doing. So thank you. Um before I start the interview, I want to honor Charlie Kirk. I know we've all been listening to a lot of the coverage on the death of Charlie Clerk, the the untimely death of Charlie Co Clerk. So please, um, let's just take a moment in silence as we contemplate that. The loss of his life.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Charlie Kirk was a staunch defender of life. He was a he was a um avid defender of life. And he knew how to stand in defense of life and argue in defense of it. He did a very excellent job of that. So we're sad to lose him. He's a warrior in this army. But I I think there's gonna be a lot of Charlie Kirk coming along here in the very near very near future. So we're excited about that. So anyway, Frank, very excited to have you today. We also met Frank down at Williamsburg at a pastor's conference. It was great to meet you. Tell us a little bit about Priests for Life and Well, likewise.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yes, uh well, Priests for Life started as an effort, uh actually started in California back in the early 90s. And uh I meanwhile was in New York, and abortion was my top concern. I had been ordained as a Catholic priest, I was preaching about it all the time. And um at that time, uh the uh Archbishop of New York, Cardinal John O'Connor, started a group called the Sisters of Life. So religious sisters who had a special, special uh mission for pro-life. And I thought to myself, this has got to be the same kind of thing for priests. And meanwhile, there was a priest in California that was thinking along the same lines. So we joined forces, and then a couple of years later, I became the first full-time director of this relatively new ministry, which uh brought me on the road and to going into churches and other pro-life groups and saying, hey, listen, we've got to strengthen the voice of the pastors on this issue. That led, of course, when you asked the question, what the past what should pastors do? What should churches do? What does the word of God tell us? Civic engagement became a big priority for us. And right away we just jumped into, with both feet, into elections and and and the you know, to elect godly candidates and pro-life candidates and and candidates who believe in the word of God as the supreme law. So we really um since then, it's been 32 years that I've been leading this ministry, and uh, we have just been uh so blessed to be able to give witness to uh to this message, and it's really uh something that has caused me to to very much uh value you the work you do and the Black Robe Regiment. And I mean, we're just on the same page in so many ways.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Amen. It's great. Um tell us about Silent No More. Is it under Priests for Life?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

You know, as yeah, it's a project of Priests for Life and Anglicans for Life. One of the things we realized as time went on, we were ministering to clergy, was that we had to show them how to help people who have had abortions. Uh, because there's a particular kind of grief there. There's a particular uh cluster of symptoms and wounds that these people carry. Not only the moms, but the dads, grandparents, siblings, the whole family suffers when there's an abortion committed. And many of these people, of course, came to the pastors. They were coming to the churches and saying, I need God's forgiveness. Now, sometimes it takes them years or maybe even decades to get to the point where they can bring themselves forward and admit that sin. But nevertheless, once they do and they find the healing mercy of Christ, which we all know and proclaim, uh they are blessed and they are lifted up and they find new peace. Now, just as we see in the Gospels, when many people who are healed by Jesus want to go out and tell the world, even sometimes when Jesus tells them to keep quiet, right? They go out and say it anyway. So we found among many of these people who have had abortions, again, women and men alike, that they wanted to share their testimony. They wanted to warn other people, not to be fooled into thinking abortion is a solution to their problems. And they also wanted to tell other people who had made that mistake that we have a savior. And they wanted to point to the to the Lord and they wanted to show the witness of the peace that they were able to find and the fact that the Lord, the church, the pro-life movement welcomed them uh once they had repented of their sin. And that's what Silent No More is. It's a it's a platform to give voice to those powerful testimonies and to give hope to everyone else who's suffering in the same way.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

That's awesome. Sometimes healing comes when we bring things out of the darkness and into the light, you know? It's a powerful, it's a powerful recipe for healing. Um exactly. Uh tell us about Rachel's Vineyard. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Yes, Rachel's Vineyard is a healing retreat based on the word of God. It is the largest ministry in the world for healing after abortion. And I serve as the pastoral director of that effort as well, because it's part of our Priests for Life structure. So Rachel's Vineyard brings people together, usually in small groups, maybe of about nine or ten, uh, and sometimes more, sometimes less, a confidential setting with clergy, also with um trained counselors, and they spend a weekend together going into biblical uh passages that talk about Jesus healing people, like the blind Bartimaeus. And they put themselves into that circumstance and they they they they they listen to Jesus saying to them the same thing, for example, that he said to Bartimaeus, what do you want me to do for you? Lord, I want to see. And and they go through various biblical accounts in a context of prayer and also of sharing. You know, we have to, like you just said, uh Bill, we have to bring these things out of the darkness that are weighing on us, that are bothering us, and bring them into the light of God's grace, bring them into the light of uh a community of people who have been through the same thing and can help. These are powerful retreats. This has been going on for three decades and has brought healing to hundreds of thousands of people. Uh and it's called Rachel's Vineyard, of course, again, uh terms that are taken from scripture. Uh so we uh we promote these retreats and the healing that they bring, and we want everybody to know that we who reject abortion do not reject those who have had abortions. We embrace them, we want them to come to the cross, we want them to find the the healing in the blood of Christ.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Amen. Amen. There's mercy to be found in the light. I want to I want to read a quote out of your book. You said you said, Jesus, put your book up again, proclaiming the message of life. This quote comes from page 35. Jesus Christ paid special attention to the poor, the despised, and those with whom those whom the rest of society consider insignificant. Um what what does what what is in your mind what constitutes poverty?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Well, the of course there's material poverty, we need certain things to live, but there's a deeper poverty. You know, one of the people I came to know in the course of doing this work was Mother Teresa of Calcutta. I actually knew her personally in the last three years of her life. And um yeah, and she had a view of poverty. She said this it's it's when people fail to see the meaning of love and the and the and the meaning that that that life is you give and receive love to one another. So she so she used an example of a family that didn't have enough food. So she brought them the food they needed, but she gave half of the what she had to one family and half to another family. And she said, Look, I don't just want to serve you in your poverty by bringing you food to eat. I want to raise you out of spiritual poverty, which is isolation, not being willing to share. And what she did was she set up a situation where the families would start to share with one another, would start to come together and care for one another. And she said, that now is healing you from a deeper poverty. And she ultimately said that abortion was the worst poverty of all, to think that we have to kill our children in order to live our lives or advance our careers or our education or whatever the reason might be. She said, that is a terrible poverty because it is it is it is devaluing human life. It is making us lose the opportunity to love that child, to give ourselves away for that child. She said, that is love and that is spiritual riches.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Amen. Tell us a little more about your work with Mother Teresa.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Well, what happened was when she um uh when I started doing uh Priest for Life work full-time, one of the first events we did was a youth event, uh a national youth event, and we wanted Mother Teresa to come and be one of our speakers. So we figured the best way to invite her would be to do so in person and after letting her know a little bit more about our work. So we contacted her. She invited me to come to Calcutta, and I spent about a week there uh to invite her to come to ultimately to our event. And what a blessing it was! I I was uh visiting with her every day. We sat for breakfast together. I had one of my other uh staff people with me. She brought me around to Calcutta to the different houses that she and her sisters ran to serve the poor. Uh, she even allowed me to preach uh to her sisters. You can imagine preaching a sermon with Mother Teresa sitting there. It was quite an experience. But she also had me talk to her sisters about our work, and she and she had a lot of one-on-one conversations with me about what it is that we were trying to do with Priests for Life. And I learned a lot uh from her, and we kind of you know strategized together and and uh and uh it was just such a um blessed experience uh to be able not only to visit with her, that was in 1994, uh, but then to uh to keep in communication with her over the next few years. She died in 1997, but she was really an inspiration to tell us to keep on going. She said this is a it was a great privilege. And uh she said, you know, abortion is a war against these children, and she said, we need everybody to rally together in this great movement for for pro-life.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

You know, in the evangelical community, a lot of churches say that they're uh they're they're they're are for the poor, but they are pro-abortion.

unknown 12:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

What would you say to that? Well, they these children in the womb.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Pile on the evangelical church.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

The these babies are the poorest of the poor. I mean, if we're concerned about the poor because they are human lives, then we have to look at at these children and say, well, they're just as human. Uh, there's no question about that. Uh biologically, they these are the smallest human beings, the youngest, the most dependent. And if we are going to be concerned about the poor, presumably it's because we don't want them to die, uh, we don't want these babies to die either. It's part of the same vision. It should be part of the same motivation. And the lesson that you were quoting from my book about where, you know, Jesus went to the outskirts of society. He went to those that others were rejecting. He spoke with the Samaritan woman, he let the children come to him, he went to the lepers, he, he, he, he welcomed uh everyone. He told Zacchaeus to come down from the tree. He went to Bartimaeus, even though the people were telling him to shut up. He went out to folks that were being rejected by the rest of society. Right. And that's what we call a preferential option for the poor. That phrase is used uh by some uh pastors and theologians to say that, you know, the weaker you are, the more dependent you are, the more God's mercy goes after you, and the more his people should go and try to meet your needs and serve you in your need. Poverty isn't just about material things. You know, you look at scripture and it's like the poor are the ones who have no help but God. And we think of these children, it's like they can't vote, they can't protest, they can't have marches, they can't speak for themselves. And the interesting thing, Bill, that I've often pointed out to people is these babies don't even know how to pray yet. So it's like, you know, if any of us are in a difficulty that we can't manage, at least we can pray. These babies can't even do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Well, you know, one of the things your book, your excellent book, does it provides uh subject, I mean topic, uh, topics for sermons, pro-life sermons that the shepherds or preach preachers can use to prepare their sermons. And uh you're out. Can you explain that?

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yes, what we have done in that book, and um and and by the way, if people want to uh see this material online, if they go to ProLife Preaching, prolifepreaching.com, they'll be able to uh not only order the book, but see a lot of these resources there. What we've done is we've followed um certain, first of all, we've outlined key biblical themes that are related to our defense of life and of the unborn in particular. Overarching biblical themes. Uh, for example, the the God as being the one who owns human life. Only God has dominion over human life. When we say Jesus is Lord, that means the government is not, uh, the doctor is not, not even the parents. God has the ownership of human life, so we can't choose to destroy it. So that's one of the many biblical themes that we trace. And then, of course, once you identify the theme, you can see many different passages that apply to that. Um, then what we did was we took the lectionary. So um various denominations will handle this in various ways, of course. When we have Sunday worship, you know, what portions of scripture are we going to proclaim? Well, in some churches, of course, it will be simply the pastor's decision that day, you know, after he's prayed about it and considered, you know, what do what do my people need to hear today? But other churches will use the lectionary. So it's it's uh this uh readings are laid out in advance for all the Sundays of the year. And and and one of the reasons for doing that is you make sure that in the course of a of a year or in in a lot of these uh the lectionaries, it's a three-year cycle. In the course of three years, you basically covered the entirety of the Bible. So um what we did was we took the lectionary and the Sunday readings for all three years of the lectionary, and each of them has a set a section in that book where we say, okay, based on these readings, both from the Old Testament and the New Testament, what would a preacher say about abortion? What would a preacher say about defending the unborn? And we literally went through all of that, and it's all laid out in that book. And that was based, uh, Bill, on my experience, uh, because I had been, like I said before, since since 1993, I've been traveling around America preaching on this topic ever each and every Sunday. And so I went through the entire series of these Sunday readings multiple times over, preaching on the same topic. So that gave me a lot of experience, not only in developing the sermons, but in seeing the reaction of the people. Not that our message depends on what the people want, but you see how it is helping them. And I was able then to develop it even more and be aware of those things about abortion that people were most uh most responsive to, or in some cases uh resistant to. And I think we've developed a pretty good approach that we can confidently say to pastors, if they follow the approach that we've laid out in that book, most of the time they're gonna find uh success in leading their people to uh not only a deep understanding of this issue, but of a of a spiritual willingness to address it uh in their own uh in their own lives.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Good. Um so in in essence, what you do is you create a culture of life in the church. It becomes part of the warp and woof of the life of the church and woof of the life by by spending a lot of time on the topic of life, and it should become it should be more uh prevalent in the churches today and the evangelical churches of America because it's not preached a lot from from pulpits in Protestant churches. And uh so you've laid out a great, I guess, a great strategy for making it a little more prevalent.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Well, I like the way you put that. Yes, we want to create uh make it part of the culture of the church. It's not because many pastors, as you know, feel like maybe this issue is something that we're imposing on our faith and worship. It's like, shouldn't we be talking about other things? And or they think maybe they think it's just a political issue coming into the church. So what we my approach to all of this, and you see it in the book, is to show pastors that wait a second, this is not a political issue, this is a pastoral issue. Certainly there are political dimensions to that, and we have to address those too. But it's a pastoral issue in as much as, like we already said, we're defending the poorest of the poor, we're saving lives. God became one of us. I mean, he showed us what he thinks of human life by becoming a human human life and then raising us up to his throne. Uh uh, you know, St. Paul tells us we're already seated with him in the heavenly places. And I love the a verse in Revelation 3, 21, where he says to the victor, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne. So we are giving to humanity uh a hope, the hope of the gospel of this eternal life and being with Christ on his throne. If that's the hope that we want people to believe in and to embrace, how can that be a credible message if when that same human life that's that's that's called to be on his throne is being thrown in the garbage by abortion, that we're ignoring that? We make our message hard to believe. You know, when we say, hey, we care about human life, God cares about human life, he wants to raise it up to his throne. If he wants to raise it up to his throne, then we're gonna prevent it from being thrown in the garbage. And so it's we show the pastors, look, this is part of what you are already preaching and what you are already trying to help your people embrace. Don't see it as some kind of outside issue that doesn't belong in church, but let's talk about it in a way that's completely consistent with scripture and and and and and shows that it is the message of God Himself being applied to a uh a problem of our day.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Excellent. Excellent. Uh let me ask you this. Uh we all most of us got got an image or saw something related to Charlie Kirk's murder and death. It was barbaric, you know, the shooting, the shooting was barbaric, and it was a horrible sight to watch. Some of us some some of us saw it. But um I would ask you this. Um how many how many babies in utero uh are future Charlie Kirk's? Right. And what is the difference between the murder of an unborn child and Charlie Kirk's murder? I mean, Charlie was a living human being. We saw him, he was tangible, he was six feet something tall. And uh we we all got ex exercised over what happened to him, and we're still and you know, culture is still exercised over his death. What's the difference?

SPEAKER_00 21:51

That's right. I mean, what is the difference if you're six feet tall or six inches tall? What is the difference if the instrument of death Is a gun or surgical forceps. I mean, those are the only differences. The age of the person, the size of the person, the instrument used to kill the person. But what's the same is the this evil intent to end the life of another human being over whose life you have no authority. It's robbing, you know, it's an attack not only on that life, it's an attack on the creator. And uh, as you know, I shared this thought when we we were together at that pastor's conference with the Liberty Pastors. What a what a marvelous gathering uh that was. Yes, indeed. And and I I I I recalled for the for our brother pastors uh uh uh a moment when I was among the many times I prayed in front of abortion facilities and and I was leading the prayers and and and one man had his feet over the property line, and somebody from the clinic came out yelling and screaming, get your feet off our property. And I stopped praying at that moment. I looked at her and I said, And when are you gonna get your hands off God's property? And and that's the the insult of this, whether it's abortion or the senseless murder of people like Charlie. It's like, who do we think we are to decide to end someone else's life? This is this again, it's an attack on the dominion of God. It's the right to life of that person, but it's the right of the creator who made them.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

You know, I I I knew Charlie, as many of us did, and and and I I always enjoyed my my conversations and interactions with him, and especially the last couple of years, you know, he was increasingly concerned about the pastors, at the very thing we're talking about, getting the churches to address these issues. And and he was concerned, of course, and it came up in his you know his college uh uh appearances and and the debates on the universities, uh, that the two issues that kept coming up all the time were abortion and of course the transgender uh insanity that we have been seeing imposed on us. And and I discussed this with Charlie, and I've said it many times in my talks, that it seems to me this is part of the very same lie. The idea that a man is not a man, or a woman is not a woman, or it depends on your choice, I think we paved the way for this by saying a baby's not a baby, and that it depends on your choice, whether that's really a baby or not. No, it doesn't depend on our choice. God has written his truth into the human body. And there's, you know, the same evidence that a man is a man and a woman is a woman is there to say that that baby is a baby. And and it's like when we rebel against the idea that that's a real baby in the womb, we've already opened the door to denying that a man is a man or a woman is a woman. It's all part of this big lie, this big rejection of God's truth. Well, one of them is, you know, one of them is actually um uh uh a side effect, you might say, of a very legitimate compassion. You know, we as pastors are trained to be to have the heart of Christ for our people, right? Of course we're compassionate to their sufferings. We want to be a good shepherd to them after the the heart of the good shepherd Jesus Christ. And because of this, many will be hesitant to raise the topic because they know it's so painful. And when they say that it is painful, they're right. It's very painful, especially for those who've had abortion, not only for them, but they think, well, there are people in my congregation who have had an abortion and I don't want to hurt them. So, look, so far, so good. I mean, that's a good sentiment. But then what I what I point out to them is if you then conclude that the best thing is for you to be quiet about it, you're making a mistake. And the reason for the mistake is this. You are correct that she's sitting there in your congregation. We don't know how many, but there are, there are safe, it's safe to say there are quite a few. And they're suffering from abortion. If you're silent, what are they supposed to think? They might think that you don't know about their pain, or that you know, but you don't care, or that you know and you care, but there's no hope. There's nothing to be done. None of those things is true. You do know, you do care, and there is hope. So I say to the pastors, don't be afraid to speak about it uh out of concern that you're gonna hurt them. Be concerned that you might hurt them by not speaking about it. And when you do speak about it, start by acknowledging their pain. We can be just very honest right up the front. We should be, and we should say, look, you know, I always recommend that the preacher would preach the pro-life message, starting with two points: our compassion for those who have had abortions, and our readiness to help those who think they need to. There are alternatives to abortion. We have more pregnancy centers across America than we have abortion facilities by about a margin of four to one. So it is a it is a an easy thing to say help is available, alternatives are there, we're ready to help you. And in other words, that it's the same message as the gospel gives. God is says, God is saying, I am with you. And we, in the name of God, are saying we are with you. And if we start with that, it's gonna overcome a big obstacle that that pastors are afraid of. Oh, I'm gonna hurt the people that are there. Another fear they have is, well, I don't want to be political. And of course, you and I are very, very involved in calling people to civic engagement. Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, I mean, what are they trying to say when it comes to that? It's like, yes, there's political dimensions to many issues, but the point is, like we were already saying, this is pastoral, this is spiritual, this is this is just good versus evil. And the church has to have a voice when it comes, just because something is being debated in the political realm, it doesn't mean that we don't have something to say about it. And and that, of course, is a persistent uh misconception in the minds of many pastors. I think many of them know better. They're just afraid. They're not confident in themselves, in their ability to take criticism. Uh, they're just not confident in how to articulate this message, which is why I wrote that book. We want to give them more of a confidence to speak about this. Uh, but those are some of the obstacles that enter into their minds and and hearts about this issue.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

The importance of it is those are the places where the killing is actually happening. And, you know, I use the analogy that when the fire alarm goes off in a town, the firefighters don't sit around the firehouse and have a prayer service. Hopefully they are praying both there and when they go to the fire, but they go to the fire. That's the point. You go to the place right. You got to go where the people are who need your help. Now, we know, uh, Bill, from we've had a lot of interaction over the years with former abortionists and clinic workers. That's actually a part of our healing ministry, is for those people who actually work in these in these clinics. And they'll tell us, let me give you one example of a woman by the name of Joy who uh who ran six abortion clinics in the South. She ultimately came out of the abortion industry and I helped her. But she said, you know, when there were people praying outside in front of our centers, we knew it was going to be a bad day for business. And then she added, when we saw a pastor praying out there, we knew it was going to be a very bad day. It has an impact. It yeah, it said it saves lives. You know what often happens? People who are there. Now, I've prayed in front of these places where people were already in the waiting room, and then they saw us praying outside, and they literally came out of the waiting room and had their babies some months later. A lot of times the other thing that happens is if they could be intercepted there on the sidewalk, you talk to them in a positive way, show them the alternatives, and they'll turn away. I mean, we've had people that have stopped right in their tracks. We talked to them and we brought them to the nearby pregnancy center. But there's a third group of people, and these, well, yeah, there's a third group of people who they're driving there for their appointment, they see people praying there, and they don't even stop. They turn around and go home. Why? Because people innately know that this is wrong. They they know it deep down, but they have so many pressures and so many people deceiving them that they they give into the temptation to go have the abortion, right? But a lot of them, when they wake up that morning of their of their abortion appointment, they pray, Lord, if you don't want me to do this, send someone to tell me to stop. And when they drive to that abortion facility and they see, even if it's two or three people, it might be two or three hundred, or it might be two or three, that's their sign. That's the answer to that prayer. That's to them, that's God telling them, stop, don't do this. And that's why we have to go, because the people that are going in day after day to these abortion clinics, the preaching didn't convince them. The pro-life literature didn't help them, the billboards, the commercials. I mean, we have to do all that stuff because all that, all that activity is, in fact, convincing other people, not even to make the abortion appointment. But these are the people who none of those other things persuaded them. They made that appointment, they're going to get their baby killed. Who's going to be the voice of that baby on that day? We were maybe voices for that baby all those other days, but how about that day? Who's going to be the last plea to that mom to save that life, the last one to speak on behalf of that child? So there have to be people there. And we can do it, it's perfectly legal to be there. And we recommend when groups have an event there, contact, inform the local police, you know, and see if there's any local restrictions or what. Well, do everything lawfully and everything peacefully and everything prayerfully. And it's perfectly uh legitimate, both in terms of the law and in terms of the witness of the gospel. Uh, it saves lives. It it guaranteed to save lives.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

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SPEAKER_00 34:01

Well, our main website is prolifecentral.org. And there they will see that we consist of various different ministries, some of which we've we've talked about here. Prolifecentral.org is the website. And then I'm on social media, all the major platforms at fr FrankPavone. And I invite people to connect with me, Fr Frank Pavone, and they'll be informed of all the things we're doing, ways they can help, and uh developments in the pro life movement, as well as many prayer resources,