Viral Controversies: Sunscreen, Seed Oils, and Social Media

A dermatologist discusses an Instagram video that went viral showing her at the beach in extensive sun-protective gear (UPF clothing, tights, balaclava, reflective face visor) with text about a UV index of 5, which triggered controversy, insults, and misinformation. She addresses claims that UV doesn’t cause skin cancer, that seed-oil avoidance makes sun exposure safe, that sunscreen causes cancer, and that heavy sun protection will cause vitamin D deficiency. She explains how UV causes DNA damage and that the UV/skin cancer link won’t be overturned, notes chemical sunscreens can be measured in blood with unknown significance, contrasts chemical vs mineral filters, and comments on “reef-safe” marketing versus climate change. She recommends checking vitamin D and supplementing, shares she recently had melanoma removed, and reviews major skin-cancer risk factors including UV exposure, tanning beds, fair skin, immunosuppression, and burns.

This is a podcast, not a medical appointment. It is for entertainment and general informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

ABOUT DERM & DUMBER

Derm & Dumber is a podcast hosted by board-certified dermatologist Dr. Brooke Jeffy and her husband, where skincare, relationships, internet trends, and questionable opinions collide.

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DISCLAIMER

The information discussed on this podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Listening to this podcast does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Always consult your own physician or qualified healthcare professional regarding medical concerns, diagnoses, or treatment decisions.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Okay, so what do you want to talk about today?

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I want to talk about sunscreen deniers and people that do not think that UV exposure causes skin cancer.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Oh, hot topic. So could this be coming from a particular video on Instagram that went viral pretty hard for you recently?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

You guessed it. Yes. So this little video has amassed almost 1.4 million views over just a few days.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

And that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Yeah. Most of your videos don't go that high.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

I mean, you know, there's definitely a range from like 6,000 to kind of a hundred thousand more commonly.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

But this one.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Some reason or another, uh, Instagram thought everybody should see this one.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Yes, it got very controversial, probably because of what I was wearing in the video.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Ah, okay. And so before our minds go to the wrong direction, go ahead and tell us what you were wearing. Set the scene. Where were you?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

I was on the beach.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

And I was just wearing my usual swim gear.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Okay. So just a swimsuit? Was it a two-piece? One piece?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

It was a mini-piece swimsuit.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Many pieces. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yes. So, and it did involve my face shield mask.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Right? The welder's mask, I like to call it.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yes, a reflective full face mask, as well as my UPF-rated swimsuit, which includes swim tights. So, yes, long sleeve swimwear. Or sorry, tights, long tights for swimwear, and then long sleeve shirt. Um, I also had on a ski mask sort of thing. What is that thing called?

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yes, a balaclava.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So I had one of those on because you can't really fit a hat on top of the sun visor.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

So the sun visor goes on top of that.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Oh my God. But you couldn't even tell you were wearing it in the picture because the visor is so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah, for the most part. So it was just a normal day for me at the beach. But apparently the internet was confused by this and the algorithm did not do me any favors. But all this little video said, which by the way, I've used that clip for other things that did not go viral.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

But what the the text on the video said, the UV is only five. We will be totally fine laying out for an hour or two.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Right. And now you don't this isn't something you wear every day that you go outside, even if it's the beach or not. I mean, like whether, you know, you just you were kind of setting it up for a great picture of sunscreen protection options, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

I mean, you haven't actually been to the beach with me in a while.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

It has been a while.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

But yeah, I mean, if I'm gonna be out there for a while chilling, I am pretty much gonna be wearing this. I mean, I might lift the visor up, you know, if I'm under an umbrella and just, you know, have a hat on or something like that and sunglasses.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

But I mean, I definitely have on the tights and long sleeve, you know, swim shirt.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Okay. Yeah. No, I've seen that. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

I mean, I just don't like wearing sunscreen, is the bottom line.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

I just thought maybe you were trying to, I was gonna play devil's advocate for a second and be like, you were just rage baiting all these poor internet folk.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

No, and that's but that's that is a lot of the accusation in the comments is that this is just a rage bait, but you know, really, really not.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Okay. All right. So yeah. All right. So the stage has been set and the scene has been described. You were at the beach wearing an insane amount of clothing for what most Americans typically wear at the beach. And you put out a video with just a still image of you wearing this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

I mean, it was a short video, not a still image, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah. All right, so just a short video wearing it and then saying, you know, you're you're set, you're ready to handle a UV rating of five. And the internet said, uh, not so fast, you're a weirdo. And then they just laid into you.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, basically. It kind of like You had some defenders. No, I definitely had some defenders, but um, a lot of comments that expressed um not believing that sun exposure causes skin cancer, that sunscreen may cause skin cancer. A huge one was that, you know, I should just avoid seed oils and I can do whatever I want in the sun.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Um, all kinds of misinformation.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yeah. And then then it just, again, I say it got into the wrong hands because there were just people that just calling me names and, you know, racist things. I mean, it really like kind of went off the rails. So it definitely kind of got beyond my usual audience.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah, it was a perfect microcosm of all that the internet can offer. It had it had positive supporting defender types, yeah. Telling you, you know, looks good, you know, protect yourself. And then you've had the racist name callers.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I did make a response video, which I thought was kind of funny, um, where I read some of the names. It was a little bit of a tribute to this teacher that does content, Miss Dugan. Do you know her? I I think I'm saying that right. Anyway, she'll sometimes just with sort of a very monotone voice read what she's been called that day by her middle school students.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Oh, yes, I believe I've seen one of those.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah, so that was kind of the inspiration. Anyway, so I read some of these words. I mean, I did not read all of them because some of them I did not want to be um recorded as saying on social media.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, no, they were bad.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

They were really bad. And and I made this video when there were only like a couple thousand comments. Um, or I'm sorry, not even a thousand thousands of comments. Um, it has even that second video now has more comments than the original um a couple of thousand uh comments. Um so so yeah, um, most of them not good and not based on any good critical thinking skills or education.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

No way. Oh man, people always go to social media for the latest in uh scientific research. Um well, you can, you just gotta know the right accounts to follow. But um, anyways, all right. So uh yeah, wait a minute. You um tell me why, and I'll just play devil's advocate on a couple of these things. Why seed oils or the folks that hate the seed oils are saying this? Why do they why do they hate it so much?

SPEAKER_00 7:14

So first let's like say what seed oils are.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

So they're usually talking about things like canola oil, soybean, sunflower, and corn oil. I think there's a few other ones, but those are the typical seed oils. And you know, they do have some potential negatives, but overall us using seed oils is a better choice than like animal fats in terms of, you know, cardiovascular risk.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Sure. I know the cardiologists out there love it when we made that switch as a general population years ago.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

But but seed oils are are criticized because they are higher in omega-6 fatty acids, and some of them can actually be really refined and processed. And those things can lead to more of a pro-inflammatory state overall, which can lead to cancer. You know, that's kind of like all the buzz right now is you know, inflammation, bad cancer.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

So yeah, and that's all true.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

It is true. Inflammation is a you know, moderation. No one's saying that you should be guzzling down gallons of seed oils a day. But okay, so there's that part. And then seed oils also, when we ingest them, they heat up in our body, and that turns into some oxidative stress that leads to some DNA damage via mutations in our cells, which could lead to cancer.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Which is also what the sun does to your skin cells. Exactly. DNA damage, mutations, cancer. See, I'm learning.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

I've heard you say that enough.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah. And I mean, most of these these issues are are like, again, in lab studies, in like rodent studies, and we're not talking about the usual consumption of a human. We're talking about super excessive amounts that they didn't then discover or cause these things. But but as you mentioned, back to the skin cancer situation, like the exact sort of mechanism of that is that these seed oils contain polyunsaturated fatty acids. These get inserted into skin cell membranes. And then when UV light hits those membranes, um, it damages the membrane and that causes cancer. And so basically the argument amongst these people is that, like, oh, if you just don't have any seed oils in your diet, when you go outside, you're fine. Right. You have to have, you know, it's it's not true that you have to have any protection at all. Well, you don't have to have the seed oil for this to happen. Oh, right. And it's not that you can just not ingest seed oil and you're fine. And you can go out and have any amount of UV exposure.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

So there it's another one of those circumstances where people will take a tiny little kernel of a part of a study and then run with it and make wild claims that do not necessarily follow from the result.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Exactly. And this is pretty much like the entire That's the entire wellness industry industry.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Um I guess starts from somewhere good. Everybody wants to be healthier.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Right?

SPEAKER_00 10:39

I mean, okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

And then but then they make an entire business out of it.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah. And this is, I mean, I'm a dermatologist, so it's always coming back to that. I assume there's probably a lot of other examples and other specialties. But like I am always talking to my patient patients about this example was biotin, where basically an entire industry of hair supplements was created based on a fact, which I will share with you in a moment, but it's it's not relevant to more than a few people out there. So basically, there is a hereditary condition that you can have where you have biotin deficiency and your hair is terrible. It's then it breaks. You give those people biotin and their hair dramatically improves. So this entire industry was then built on the fact like, okay, normal people give them biotin when they're experiencing some kind of problem with their hair, they're gonna have great hair. I mean, this is like a, I don't know, probably billion-dollar industry, the hair supplement industry. It's crazy right now.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Sure. So, yeah. So this is not a product that's, you know, regulated in any way. It's not, it's just an over-the-counter biotin pill you can get.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah, I mean, biotin is just a supplement. Supplements aren't regulated. I mean, and it can be anything in that supplement. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Well, no shortage of stories like that. But yeah, so there it is. Again, somebody takes a little thing about a study, runs with it, makes a million dollars or more.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah. All right. Well, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Any other uh Yeah, so seed oils were huge. Um there were people, you know, concerned about my lack of ability to enjoy the beach and how this was going to be stressful for me. This must be so stressful for me.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

And wait, just being at the beach is stressful?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Well, that I had to like go to these extremes to be on the beach.

unknown 12:44

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

And I'm like, you know, this is actually the easiest. I mean, I don't have to worry about rubbing on sunscreen. I can just be out here for hours at a time.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

You don't need to set a timer for when to reapply.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Right. And, you know, this is swim type of material. You just walk right into the water. It like could not be any simpler.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

And actually contributes to my enjoyment of the beach. Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

There you go. Yeah. No, I look, there's people love to hate, you know, and when you get to be anonymous online, you get to just ramp up that bad behavior and without consequence. So I like that you were calling some of the people out. I know it's mostly anonymous and you don't nobody knows who these people are.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yeah. But still. But I mean, I think you feel the same way. I think a lot of people feel the same way. They won't if they do believe in ultraviolet radiation causing skin cancer, um, that sun protective clothing is a lot easier to deal with.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

I prefer it. I don't like but I'm, you know, I've got really hairy legs, and I've always got some version of a beard. I hate and I also have, and I don't know, maybe you can test for this, but I bet I looked this up. There are people that are called super smellers. And I think I would be one if I ever took a test, if there is such a thing. But I am super sensitive to the smell of sunscreens. I don't enjoy it. I don't like it. So yeah, I always wear clothes instead and hats and things instead of you know, too much instead of a bunch of sunscreen that I have to uh, you know, rub off for an hour in the shower because it's so glued on to me. Yeah. In my my hairy leg.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah, I mean, there's formulations that can do better to rub in those areas. But yeah, I mean, there there are there is always an odor of some sort, I think, although some of them less than others.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Sure. And maybe some people don't mind it. Maybe some people aren't as sensitive, but Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah. So the other thing that people came at me a lot um about was that um sunscreen itself causes skin cancer.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Right. So even though you were wearing clothes instead of a bunch of sunscreen, they threw out the old, you know, sunscreen actually causes cancer more than the sun.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Right, exactly. So um I please tell us why that's not true. Um Yeah, so this is an another example of a little bit of information being used for evil. So it is true that. Well, let me take a step back. So there are two classes of sunscreen filters in the United States. There are chemical and mineral sunscreens. The mineral sunscreens are titanium and zinc. The chemical sunscreens, always say it's easy to remember. Those are just the ones that are harder to pronounce. There have been studies that show that chemical sunscreens are absorbed into our blood. So, well-controlled studies, humans applying sunscreen in very controlled laboratory conditions in terms of the amount, how much they're reapplying, how consistently they're doing it over a few days. So these chemical sunscreens were able to be measured in their bloodstream. What we don't know is what that means or does. We don't know.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Um but people want to make assumptions, of course.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

They found it, so therefore it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Correct. But the thing is, I mean, there's a lot of problems here. One is that nobody uses sunscreen that well. Um, most of us barely put put any on. Um we're not reapplying it enough, we're sweating it off right away. Um, you know, I tell people that like if you're not thinking it's a job to rub in, you're not using enough.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Right. No, I I've seen I've seen the videos and I've seen you talk about how much you need to put on if you're doing it right, and it is like half a bottle every time. If you're doing like if you're like a dude just wearing a swimsuit and no swim shirt, no hat, and you were to cover every bit of skin, right? Isn't it like it's a shot glass? There's a shot glass for like for body part.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

No, no, a shot glass for the body.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Oh. Alright. Well but seems like a lot when I see it. It's a lot. I mean a shot glass full of sunscreen is a lot. Yeah, it is a lot. So yeah, I think. So yeah, no wonder it should feel like a job. Yeah. Well, you just throw on a shirt like I do. Exactly. So nice, they're cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

They're so they've come a long way.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

So much easier. You just stay covered and then you put the sunscreen on where you can't cover, and you don't have to worry so much about a large area of absorption if that is something you care about. Um, or you can just choose to use mineral sunscreen and avoid this whole conversation because it is not absorbed. But the downside of mineral sunscreen is that these are the ones that tend to leave a white cast and they're harder to rub in areas where you have hair, for example. So they're just not as cosmetically elegant. So there's a trade-off.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Got it. Easy enough. Now, what about that sunscreen? And I assume this is the chemical one that we get warned about when it comes to uh coral reefs.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Oh, yeah, exactly. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

That's the chemical one?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

It is the chemical sunscreen. So again, another situation of a shred of evidence has created, honestly, in this situation, uh an entire new marketing claim that uh brands can use, and that is coral reef-friendly sunscreen. Right, which sounds fine. Which should be good. Coral reefs need help. Yeah, sure. But the thing is that these were studies um in very controlled settings, in like labs with aquariums full of coral, exposed to very large concentrations of the chemical sunscreen filters, and the coral got bleached. The thing is that environmental experts think that it is really they they know that global warming, climate change, that definitively increases and has yes, bleaching of coral reefs and has much more to do with it than any small contribution there might be from sunscreen. So that's what we should be up in arms about, not the use of chemical sunscreens, but um really like I know Hawaii banned. Yeah, you know, you can only buy reef-friendly sunscreen there.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Whatever. Okay, that's fine. So there you go. Just use that one.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Well, what else came up in the comments? People are very worried about my vitamin D.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Oh, yes, because a lot of people think that what, the only way you can get vitamin D is from the star at the center of our solar system.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yes. So lots of comments. So, you know, I would comment and say, well, you know, yes, I do actually worry about my vitamin D, as honestly, we all should, because it is definitely something that's we're learning is more and more important to have optimal levels of. So get your vitamin D level checked and supplement it. So then people would come back and say, well, the supplements don't work as well. And that is 100% not true. It's been studied.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yeah. In fact, isn't vitamin D one of like the few vitamins that we get can get through supplements? That actually, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember hearing that those multivitamins were pretty useless because our body doesn't end up absorbing most of the vitamins in those pills, and you should just get it from your food if you can. With the exception of vitamin D and maybe E or something, was I don't know, am I wrong?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Um, I mean, vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin, um, along with a few others. I think it's A, D, E, and K.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

So those are the best ones that we can get from supplements and pills?

SPEAKER_00 21:25

I I that's my understanding of it, but I have researched if you if there's any benefit to vitamin D that you have derived, you know, made yourself versus taken as a supplement. And there are studies that confirm there is no problem just taking it as a supplement. It doesn't do anything special. Your levels are not higher if you get it via sun exposure. So thanks for the worry, people. But you know, I'm all good. The other thing I want to point out is that yes, if you're wearing head to toe covering Constantly, you will likely become vitamin D deficient if you're not supplementing. But if you're only relying on sunscreen, we've already talked about how poorly most people are using it. So, and and and no sunscreen is 100%. So you're still getting UV radiation through the sunscreen. So depending on where you live, how long you're out, how much body surface area you have exposed, um, you may still just be doing fine on your vitamin D. But I do recommend that you just get it checked periodically.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Okay. Good advice.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yeah. All right. So you you you put to bed their their concerns about your vitamin D, not, you know, absorption from the sun, even though you said I can get it elsewhere, and they came back with, oh, but you can't get it very well through there. You can't get it through pills all that great. You need to still be in the sun. All right. Anyways, I get their argument. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Now, I do think that, you know, there's there were also comments about, I don't I don't really exactly remember what they were, but basically alluding to the fact that like, you know, you're gonna be sickly if you don't get any sun exposure. And I totally do think that we need some low UV index time sun exposure to help regulate our circadian rhythms. So, you know, a little bit of sun exposure in the morning, a little bit at night when the UV is low. So I'm not, I'm not advocating just staying inside all the time.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Right. No, of course not.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Plus, you know, it can be, it's, you know, it's good to let your eyes hit natural light. And there's all kinds of good reasons to be outside.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah, nobody's saying don't go outside. All right.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yeah. And then, you know, there were some people that uh did not realize that I have had a skin cancer before. I had melanoma, my first melanoma removed um probably about two months ago now. So, you know, there were some well-wishers that hoped I got skin cancer despite all of this. So that was nice. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Um real, real angels.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Yeah, but uh just kind of want to take it back and point out the things that do increase our skin cancer risk for those listening. Um UV exposure by far, um, the number one contributor to increased skin cancer risk. Tanning beds, number two. This is what got me. I did tons of tanning beds when I was a teenager, which the exposure we get from either the sun or tanning beds um does its worst damage when we're young. So yeah, I worked in one for many years, so I could get that free tan, which is weird because I don't really get all that tan. I get more of like a salmon color.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

You're very pale. So I don't know what I was saying. You're white or red. Those are your options. Um, yeah, that's that's kind of funny. Is that what's called irony? I don't know that you loved tanning beds as a kid, couldn't really tan, then became a dermatologist, then got melanoma from the tanning bed.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah, you know, I think a huge thing for the tanning beds for me was like growing up in Kentucky, right? There were large periods of the year where it was like just dark and dreary.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

And, you know, I'm always cold.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Well, now everyone listening knows I'm always freezing. So I love to be in there and just be like warm. And I think the light just really helped my mood. So I can see I, you know, when you hear people talk about like they just want to go in there, they're like almost addicted. Like, I do think that that is a thing.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

But yeah, anyway, that's I think what drove a lot of my seasonal affective disorder light bulbs. Yeah, exactly. Put them around your house and don't have to get cancer.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah, go to hot yoga.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

There you go. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Um, okay, so also your skin type, you know, the more fair you are, uh, the less melanin to help protect your little skin cells and their DNA from the sun, the worse off you are going to be in terms of risk. Um, if you're immunosuppressed in any way, so certain drugs, definitely people who have um organ transplants and they have to take these really aggressive immunosuppressants, they get tons of skin cancers.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

It's just very hard to address. Um, history of burns earlier early in childhood, um, sunburns, um, actually also like physical burns. Um, you know, if you have, I don't know, some kind of hot liquid poured on you and you have a burn, that also increases your risk of non-melanoma skin cancer right in there.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Okay. Wow. I didn't know that. So a kid burns their arm like on a stove and that it heals, but you get a scar, that is a patch of skin that you should pay attention to in your skin exams a little more closely as you get older.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Yeah, especially if it's a significant, you know, a significant deeper burn.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah, yeah. So nowhere did I say seed oils.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

No. For those top five skin cancer risk categories, I didn't hear you say anything about what sort of oils we cook our food in. But okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah. And I mean, the other thing, I because I just don't I don't think I said it before, is that there are certain things in medicine that change and evolve. You know, we think it's one thing, and then time and other studies tell us something else. Uh, that's not going to happen with the relationship between UV exposure and skin cancer. I mean, this is like dogma. Um, one of the few facts that I know will not be overturned that are agreed upon in dermatology and oncology, just like that is the basis of it. It's not going anywhere. So keep that in mind when you're trying to interpret what some wellness influencer is trying to tell you.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

All right. Well, now that that's settled, uh how many bottles of sunscreen do you think you own? Because if I were to guess, I'd say we're in the thousands.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Well, you know, it is sort of my job to test out a lot of sunscreens so that I can help my patients and the people I talk to on social media choose one that's right for what's going on with their skin, their skin type, whether they have acne, whether they have eczema, help them find something they're willing to use that's not too greasy and works well with what they're trying to do.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Got it. So these are just my job. Um but to doing research.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Yes, it's research. But to answer your question, um I don't know, I'd say probably like around 40.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Um Wow, you've actually counted.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

I no, I haven't. I'm actually guessing. I I would say around 40. I would say that there are 15 that are in pretty heavy rotation. Um, because I really, you know, you need to have options. You don't know. I mean, is it just the weekend? Is it a day you're wearing makeup and you want more of like a matte look? Or you want a more dewy look? Or do you want a tinted sunscreen? Or are you breaking out a little bit? So you want something that's a little more acne safe.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Got it. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Is it winter and your skin's drier and you want a more hydrating one?

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

So you just you need to have options.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn't know. I just thought a bottle of sunscreen was a bottle of sunscreen.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I am a bit of a sunscreen connoisseur.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yeah, yeah. No, if you got questions about which is good best for what, let us know. She will answer it. She will tell you. And uh it's not coming out of nowhere. She has tried the bottles. Um, yeah, all right. Well, anything else, or do you think we could wrap it there? I think that's a pretty good start. I know that the topic of sunscreen is going to come up a lot, and I know that there's a whole lot more to say about it, at least as far as you're concerned. Uh, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yeah, I think this was a good start to the sunscreen conversation.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

All right. Well, let's wrap there then. Um that was it. That was episode two. Um where can you find us though? Uh we've got uh social media handles of Derman Dummer on Instagram. And where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Brooke Jeffy MD on socials. Go write a supportive comment on that video with me wearing my fun visor.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Yeah, it shouldn't be too hard to find. It's the one where you look like a freak. Uh, but I love it. Okay, great. Uh let's say goodbye. That was uh easily the best podcast we've ever done.