Sephora Legislation, Hair Loss, and More

Dr Jeffy and husband discuss new Connecticut legislation requiring warning labels on Sephora skincare products, aiming to improve awareness about potential harm when kids use adult-focused actives. Dr Jeffy recounts gaining attention after reacting to a Kardashian child’s “Get Ready With Me” video showing excessive skincare use and her focus on simple routines for kids with sunscreen, gentle cleansing, and moisturizer. She makes the case against retinol, high-potency vitamin C, and alpha/beta hydroxy acids use in kids due to irritation, barrier damage, rashes, breakouts, and possible “inflammaging.”

Then we shift to the increase in hair loss patients and types of hair loss - specifically discussing androgenetic alopecia (DHT-related), telogen effluvium from stress, illness, surgery, nutrient/protein deficits and weight loss (including GLP-1-related), and alopecia areata. Treatments discussed include oral and topical minoxidil, finasteride/dutasteride, and scalp injections, with side effects and pregnancy cautions.

ABOUT DERM & DUMBER

Derm & Dumber is a podcast hosted by board-certified dermatologist Dr. Brooke Jeffy and her husband, where skincare, relationships, internet trends, and questionable opinions collide.

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The information discussed on this podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Listening to this podcast does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Always consult your own physician or qualified healthcare professional regarding medical concerns, diagnoses, or treatment decisions.

Transcript

0:24

What do you want to talk about today? I want to talk about something I was reading this morning that just happened yesterday, where Connecticut has passed legislation to require warning labels on Sephora products. So skincare products that brands supply to Sephora that have actives in them that kids might want to use. Why that hits close to home for you. Yeah. So I kind of guess got my start on social media. A few years ago, I did a video reacting to a get ready with me video. These were super popular a couple years ago. Kids sort of showcasing what they do in the morning to get ready. I honestly don't see them that much anymore, but maybe that's just what my algorithm has morph morphed into. Um they saw how much hate you threw at them. Maybe. And they were just like, well. Yeah. So I did this video where I reacted to one of the Kardashian children's morning routine, which was way over the top. Right. So what was the scene? It was a girl approximately I think she was 13 at the time. Right. So and then she just a get ready with me is a video where you just film yourself getting ready in the morning, going through all of the products that you put on your face mostly or your body, but mostly face. Yeah. Okay. Pretty much. So this 13-year-old was just sitting there filming herself doing this. And you seeing it went, whoa. Right. She was just using too many products, products that weren't necessary for her skin and could potentially cause problems. But it and this video took off. The funny thing is that, you know, part of the reason that I'm sure it took off was because it was a Kardashian child in the video. But the funny thing is that I honestly had no idea that who I was commenting on. You know, my my team sent me this video. And at that point, I was doing a lot of reactions to uh various uh videos in this genre. And uh again, because it happened to be a Kardashian child, it kind of took off. So uh that was on TikTok, has over 13 million views at this point. Um, but this whole, this whole phenomenon that has developed over the last couple of years of kids being really into skincare and using products that are not meant for their skin is what I speak about a lot on social media. And most of that comes from stems from how important I think it is for kids to start taking care of their skin early, primarily in terms of sun protection. But when you add that into the mix, you also need to be sure that you're cleansing that off, um, using a moisturizer to to replenish hydration that's come away. Um, but a focus on just simple products, not overdoing things on their skin, not using products that have actives that are very aggressive and meant for adults because their skin is much more sensitive and reactive. Got it. Yeah. That's sort of that I I remember that video. That was kind of what com prompted me to create an Instagram account. Because you got real, I say real big, there's you got bigger than we thought real quick. And I thought I'd figure, see what it was all about. And then yeah. Okay. So Yeah, and that kind of you know, went along with the fact that I was noticing, you know, I started commenting on these videos because I was noticing all these um questions that kids and parents were having in the in the clinic, and um, you know, of course, starting to see these trends appear on social media. And that is around the time when, you know, I created the between brand, which is my skincare line that is safe for kids. And there's a lot of those now in the space, but I shouldn't say a lot. I I mean I can think of probably like six or seven specific uh brands that are on a large, fairly large scale. And then I'm sure there's multiple other small ones that exist, but it is definitely a growing segment, which is These are designed for kids and actually good for kids. Because I mean there's all kinds of stuff being marketed to kids. Right. That was the problem. Exactly. It just wasn't for kids, but these are actual products that you think are going yeah, going the right way for kids. I do still firmly stand behind the fact that my line is the only one that does not make any compromises. But of course, uh, you know, I don't want to turn this into a commercial. Toot toot goes your horn. Um, but it's a step in the right direction to give kids something that feels um more like an elevated skincare experience to them, which is what teen and tween, especially girls, want. I know that's something you really care about in your routine is an elevated experience. Yeah. Um, but giving them something that they want that is also safe for them. So, you know, unfortunately, a lot of people think, oh, you can just kind of do anything to your skin. Um, doesn't really matter. Parents, you know, just aren't aware that what they're letting their kids buy or what they're buying for their kids uh can have negative consequences. So I think this step is great. I actually worked with an assemblyman in um California. That's right. Yeah, probably, I don't know, about a year ago. They were trying to do the same thing. It didn't pass. But uh it looks like they've had a little more success in Connecticut with this piece of legislation that seems to just require a label. Um Right. Just like a warning on a million other products, just letting you know what's in it, who it's best for. Right. I mean, we don't have the details of what has to be on the label. Um Nobody's telling anybody what you can and can't buy. You know, there's a lot could be those large or those uh loud voices that come in and tell us, oh, more government overreach. Yeah. The point is just awareness. But you know, too, Sephora is obviously a huge retailer and how this is gonna play out with um requirements that they might have on their website, um, and you know, things like that is is going to be kind of interesting. But yeah. I mean, if these products are in other stores, it's gonna be wherever the product is. Well, the the legislation was specific to Sephora. Oh, right, because it was around this same time that the whole term Sephora Kid started to take off. Correct. They were under the microscope the most. Right. Right. Right. It got you, yeah. And I mean, would you say that you were the the big voice behind the Sephora Kid movement, bringing it to I mean, were there other people online? I knew again, because I was kind of new to that realm of social media. Were there other people talking about it? Um, I was definitely the first one talking about it. I mean, subsequently, many people, uh derms and aestheticians and cosmetic chemists um have kind of you know, obviously chimed into the conversation. But You got a lot of national attention. I did. You got Good Morning America reached out. You got to be on that show. I did. Uh all the major newspapers. Yeah. And, you know, it's it's still talked about, obviously. Um, you know, with this just uh passing yesterday. So um I think it's a step in the right direction. But for me, really, the bottom line is just trying to get kids started on uh sun protection early. But, you know, I guess probab maybe helpful to listeners to just sort of point out and also see what what your uh knowledge is about some of these ingredients that are risky to kids. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So um things like retinol. Heard of it. Heard of it. Yeah. Uh antioxidants like vitamin C, high potency vitamin C, um, and then alpha and beta hydroxy acids. Again, all things I've heard of, but only because I know you. Yeah. So I mean, these are all actives, and so they um are very common in products. They have a lot of anti-aging benefits in terms of helping to support collagen, um, helping to remove uh pigment from chronic sun exposure, um, or improve fine lines and wrinkles. So the issue, the rub I have with it is that if you're a kid who has normal, healthy skin, you don't have these problems. And all of these uh ingredients can be irritating to the skin, harmful to the skin barrier, um, which can lead to things like rashes or breakouts. I see a ton of kids in my office with this. They're using way too many of these products, too aggressive for their skin. Um, kids are very sensitive to having, you know, acne and they don't want that. And then they're essentially creating this problem in themselves. So um infections if they're scratching at the skin because it gets too irritated. And then um, I don't know. Are you familiar with this concept called inflammaging? Is this uh what's that word? Portman something where two words combine to make one stupid word. Ooh, I don't know what that is. Is it portman so? I'm gonna look it up, but yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Well, now this is just kind of a general concept that uh you know, inflammation causes uh damage and free radicals, and that harms, you know, certain proteins and uh things like collagen is is kind of what I'm referring to here. So, you know, if you're causing a lot of irritation for absolutely no potential benefit, um are we actually causing some harm? Got it. Okay. Yeah. How do you feel about this word? I I like it. Yeah, I figure it's right up your alley. It is what it's called, a portmanteau. Portmanteau? Yeah. It's what kind of language is that? It's probably a French word. Look at all the vowels. Linguistic blend where the sounds and meanings of two or more words are combined to create a new word. Like a brand. It's not just French. Breakfast. Oh, see? You took two words. Look, I learned something. Now who's the dumb Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Pulled that one out of the recesses. Very nice, very nice. I can know a little bit about a lot of things, but not a lot about anything. So got it. All right, well, so that's cool. We'll keep an eye on that. See how that spreads. But basically, Connecticut has said, hey, and usually when a large state or a state with enough of a population has Is Connecticut a large state has enough of a population. I think it's got a significant population. But anyways, but I don't know. I'm just saying that usually when a state, usually it's California. Right, exactly. Make one of these things and it just has to go nationwide because the the population. But I mean, yeah, it just doesn't make sense for a company to have two separate labels, so they'll just do it. But I don't know. I wonder how much fight they're gonna get against it. Yeah, I mean, Sephora has apparently like agreed to this, so I guess you know, the pushback will be like other you know, people like you said that don't like intervention. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a big movement too to have like everybody has to know what is in everything. And then that's good thing, like, you know, for food, for ingredients, for so I don't know, how's it that different? Put what you're putting on your skin versus what you're putting in your body. Yeah, I mean, I do agree with that, but then there's also this whole movement in beauty, this term where a term called clean beauty, where one of those meaningless terms like has zero definition. And then because of that, there's all these uh apps. So super super popular one is this yucca app, Y-U-K-A. Um, and uh even like the plant. Okay. And so basically you put a product in or they have the products there, or you scan a product and it's just black and white. This ingredient is good, this ingredient is bad, with no context, which is just not how it works when you're you know formulating products. There's it's not always black and white like that. You know, concentrations matter and delivery systems matter. Um, so anyway, I mean, I I obviously agree with the warning or, you know, bringing it to the improving the awareness, but um, you know, like you s like you were saying, just knowing the ingredients is just not the only piece. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. You gotta know what those ingredients do, how they work. I saw something about there's a product that is derived from seaweed, a particular seaweed. And they put it into um like creamers and all all kinds of products. And it's it's it's a it's a it's a thing they put in there and it acts like a gelatin. And oftentimes it's used as a vegan alternative to jello or gelatin, you know, which is typically made from you know animal products. And uh so there's these videos out there where people will promote this product that comes from a s a seaweed as this healthy, great, all natural, you know, thing that you need. But then they will take in the same video or in the same course, they'll just say, by the way, it's got a different name when they put it in this creamer, and then they're like, This is this is awful. This is don't put this in your body. But it's the same thing. They just don't understand that it has a different name once it's used at a different purpose. And so, yeah, they mean that's I don't know the details of the names of the seaweed, but I could look that up. But anyways, yeah, I mean that that's that happens a lot of skincare too. Just uh different companies usually using different names for ingredients, you know, chemicals in the products and uh in Durham, it causes a lot of problems because people will get, you know, contact allergies, so allergic to uh can develop allergies to ingredients in certain products. And you know, if you get testing done, you can figure out what it is, but you have to be careful with you know, being sure you know all of the names it goes under. So kind of a similar situation. So who's gonna take the time to educate themselves about every single product out there and the chemical makeup and the what it does to your system? No, but nobody that's so yeah. Well put the labels on there, let the people do. But then you don't need a bunch of people doing their own research. Oh God. This is oh don't get me started on the doing your own research right now. I'm still dealing with the whole aftermath of what we they talked about in the last episode of this viral video of me protecting myself and it's on ongoing, the insanity of the Yeah, that's still happening, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. Okay, yeah. Anyways, so that was in the news, and then we got a little off the rails there. But that'll happen a lot with us. The other thing you wanted to talk about, right? Unless you're right, we can wrap that one up. Okay. Was the more uh general topic for today is hair loss, correct? Correct. That's what you all right. So why do you want to talk about hair loss? What's going on in the world of hair loss? I just feel that we are seeing I'm seeing so many more patients with hair loss in clinic. Okay. I don't know, you you take you schedule people in the office. You feel like you get a lot of people calling in to get scheduled for hair loss. Um I mean, this is obviously nothing new, but I just really wonder if a lot of it, I mean, we'll talk about some of the types of hair loss, but uh one of the more common types of hair loss kind of starts with shedding. It's called telogen of fluvium, and it can be very stress-induced. And so I just think with maybe the state of the world. All time high. Right. So isn't that great? Biology is like, hey, we noticed you're stressed out. Let's get rid of your hair. Mm-hmm. And our bodies are like, oh, just in case you needed one more thing to stress about. Exactly. So yeah, it also feeds into that cycle, but you know what's good for your stress? More stress. Yeah. Works great. Yeah. So I'm I'm always telling people when I'm chatting with them about hair loss that like your hair follicles are these little princesses in your scalp. And if there's really one thing off in your system, like that's that's the first thing to go, is you know, support for your follicles. So it's like a body's defense in some way. Some what's the evolution of the thing? I think you're just shu you know, like we don't we don't need our scalp hair really at this point, I think. So, you know, there's other systems that would be your body wants to support that are more important than your hair follicles. Got it. Yeah. So it's like a smaller scale version of like freezing to death and letting the exterior limbs go first before the internal organs completely fail. Get rid of the hair follicles. Like let's just stop putting energy into growing hair. Yeah. You've clearly got more things to put your energy into. Yeah, exactly. So so yeah, I mean, um And I've noticed it's men and women. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, it's I men, but I mean, there's literally a thing called male pattern baldness. I mean, this is I mean, it's generations. Yeah, everybody. Right. And it's not just male pattern bald baldness. Women get female pattern baldness. It's the same. Uh it's just that's kind of like the common name for a medical condition called androgenetic alopecia. You can speak a lot about this because you have it on your own head. Well, okay, look, I just let's just point me out as an example. Uh no, I'm I'm pretty lucky. I've just turned 50. And I, for the most part, have kept a good amount of my hair. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of people who started going bald right after high school, I think. Yeah, I mean, our our son is having some hair hairline. Yeah, but that's a different story, I think. I he's also subject to a different world of social media and influencing and stuff. That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he has a receding hairline. Okay. I just don't see it. Okay. He's just got a lot of hair on his head. All right. Moving. Oh, yeah, we're we're not gonna talk about my about his hairline anymore. He's gonna be very unthrilled about that. So let's go back to talking about your hairline. Yeah. So I yes, you have pointed out, and I guess if I look hard enough at pictures from the past, I have started to recede in the front and then thin at the top. Right? Let's characterize it as thin. Is it a full-on like do I look like a monastery? Well, quiet, but you know, we're heading in that direction. Yeah, okay. But I mean that's the point is, yeah, it's super common. All men go. So not all men, but it's very common. You're right. All men. I'm just late to the party on it. That's all. Okay, yeah. You did a good job holding on to it for a good long time. Um, yeah, it's actually 80% of men, um, but 50% of women. Women experience it a bit differently, um, instead of like the classic sort of what we call frontemporal recession and crown loss on men. Women just kind of tend to get like overall in the crown, it just gets thinner. You can see the scalp easier, their part, it starts with their part just kind of looking more wide. Um so really common. And this can be genetics, uh, very often a family history, um, but also has to do with just, you know, a person's hormone status, testosterone levels, there's this enzyme, I think you've even heard of this before, called DHT, which converts um, or I'm sorry, DHT is what testosterone is converted to from an enzyme called a five-alpha reductase. And so if you can decrease DHT, then you can allow the follicle to be more normal. Basically, excessive amounts of that make the follicle shrink. The hairs that it produces are smaller, uh, not as thick. And over time, that just progresses and the follicle ultimately stops making any hair. So that's sort of a little overview about the most common type of hair loss, but I do think it's really important. People just kind of assume that that's what they have. And there are certainly other types of hair loss. So we mentioned earlier about stress-related hair loss in the form of something called telogenofluvium, which which leads to shedding. A dog has that every winter. I'm not a vet. I don't know the mechanism of that. But she sheds year-round, so I'm not sure that's a good thing. Yeah, but particularly in the winter. But anyway, yeah. So the shedding can be a lot of things. Stress we talked about, nutrient deficiencies. Um can be too like if you have an if you're in an accident or you have surgery, again, like a very big like systemic stress. And then also with weight loss. So seeing a lot of this now too with, you know, the GLP landscape. Okay. Unintentional. It's like, oh, but okay, that's just it comes with weight loss, not GLP weight loss, just anybody who decides to lose weight or able to. Yeah, exactly. All of a sudden they're losing hair too, they notice. Sure. And along with that too, you know, you have to be really careful when you're on a GLP one to maintain your protein and maintain your nutrient status. Um, because again, all those things will affect uh Right. Because you don't just shed fat, you shed muscle, you shed all that stuff. So you gotta but no, you're you're saying you also need to but so it's related to your caloric deficiencies. Yes, nutrient deficiencies, protein deficiency if you're not staying on top of that. But then also too, just weight loss is kind of a shock to our system. And so it's kind of like that stress mechanism. So a lot of ways that it can actually contribute to that shedding. Um, so I'd say those are probably the most common types of hair loss. And then um, there's something called alopiciariata, which is fairly common. Have you ever heard of that? Yep. Okay. Only because of patients they come to see you. Okay. So that's an autoimmune type of hair loss. Um, more common in well, it can happen in any age, but if I'm gonna see something in kids, um, this will be a little bit more common there, where you generally lose like circular patches and it's like totally bald. Um, but the nice thing is that's actually fairly easy to treat. Um, unless it's really widespread and involves like the whole scalp, or it can even involve someone's in all the hair on their body, which can be much more challenging. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I've yeah, you you've seen you see people who have alopecia and they just they just accept it and that's their life, and they're completely hairless, like eyebrows everything. Right. That would be something called alopecia universalis. It's third or totalis if it's whole body. Wow. So Latin. I know. So so many cool names. Um, and then one last thing I I want to point wanna point out that I'm seeing a lot more in clinic. I mean, all derms are, and we don't really know why. It's another type of autoimmune type of hair loss um called lichen planopylaris. And I mean, back when I was in residency, I can remember seeing like a handful of these. And now, I mean, it's almost like every on a busy clinic day I will diagnose one almost. Um Okay, what is it? How is it different from other people? Yeah, so it it causes a specific look to the basically, you get inflammation and uh papules around the hair and the frontal scalp that causes a type of uh damage to the follicle that's permanent. So it's a scarring hair loss. So all the other types of hair loss I mentioned, the follicles are not scarred to the point they can't recover. Um whereas this condition is very it scars right away. So once the damage is there, those follicles can't come back. So it's really important to identify it early if you want to try to save those hairs and get the inflammation treated. Otherwise, it will progress to the whole scalp and you have no hair. Wow. Mm-hmm. So I I diagnose it a lot in in more in women, but very often they don't realize that it's happening, which is kind of frightening. Until it's real, real far gone or real noticeable. Right. And a lot of times too, they just think, oh, it's like I like, you know, um more patterned hair loss. And so they don't really pay that much attention to it. They just think they're getting a little thin on top. Um, and then, you know, I look at their scalp and it's very inflamed and just going to, you know, continue and then they will not be happy. So that's always an interesting conversation when you have to bring up something that someone doesn't realize is there. And right. And then, but what is the is there an understanding yet of why you're seeing it more? No. I mean, I know there's studies ongoing with it, epidemiological type of studies and things like that. But it again, it was like so rare in the past. I mean, there's obviously nothing that's like FDA approved to treat it or anything because it was just like so rare. Um, but I don't know how that's going to evolve as as we're seeing it more and more. So my point in like going through all these is that, you know, it's not always just androgenetic alopecia. You can have uh very commonly telogenofluvium, the shedding, and androgenetic alopecia, or maybe you've diagnosed yourself wrong and you have one of these autoimmune conditions, which is going to be treated totally different. So um, I just think it's important to get out there that there's these other types. And before you go just rubbing monoxidil all over your head, be sure you've got the right diagnosis. Yeah. Yeah. What kind of do you want to share what kind of fun things I've tried to convince you to do? You have suggested um pills, two pills, two prescription pills. Those and just because you know that I can be lazy and you know that that's probably the easiest way to get the medicine in for the for for hair loss. And those those two medicines are um phenasteride and monoxidil. Right. And by the way, you're not the only really lazy person. Um I'm pretty much a realist in clinic and like nobody's putting stuff topically on regularly enough. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We're all just so busy moving on to the next thing. Yeah. But you've had some concerns about it, which is why Yes. So those yeah, because like anything else, they have side effects. And what are, do you want to say? Do we what are the some of the side effects of these two most common pills? Yeah. So phenasteride is a drug that blocks that conversion from testosterone to DHT, which drinks the hair follicle. Um Its main side effect is that it decreases it can decrease libido. That is the main side effect. I honestly I would say like that's really the only side effect. Um it is that happens in like one to three percent of men decrease libido. Um it's the same side effect for men and women on all these drugs? Uh or do like some not in all the drugs. So finasteride, um, yes. But the other drug, a minoxidil that we've talked about, does not have that side effect. It has its own side effects, but what are those? Um fluid retention. Very rare though. I mean, but again, I would say the decreased libido is pretty rare. Right. And these are from the pills. Correct. Oral versions. Um I guess the so the other thing though. That's so you could take all these pills and get all your luscious locks back in your hair and start feeling good and sexy again or whatever. And then you're just like, Yeah. I'm not interested in any of that though. Libido's gone. Sorry. I know I look like this again. I'm great. I look anyways. Yeah. But and I guess along with the libido, and uh is like sometimes depression, you know, so that's definitely like uh something that's been kind of like described along with um with that. Um but again, everything has side effects, pretty rare. I guess the the scary part is that there's some people, and I don't know if this has been quantified, and it's it's really hard to um be scientific about this, but have persistence of those symptoms. And so I guess uh that will deter people from after discontinuing. Right, after discontinuing, because largely if you just stop it, it you know, returns to normal. Got it. Hair starts falling out again, but you feel normal again. Got it. Right, right. Um yeah, and then uh minoxidil, um, the fluid retention, very rare. It's just case reports, really, and the doses we use for hair loss, which are really, really small. Um Are these daily if you end up oral? These are daily. Yeah, these are daily pill daily pills. Um the more worrisome, I mean, fluid retention, it usually shows up as just swelling in your legs, but you can have that fluid retention happen around your heart. Um, which not usually where you want it. No, not usually where you want it, but again, incredibly rare. And you stop it and these things are going to resolve. But um, I do disclose that to patients because it is kind of a, you know, these things are all serious if they happen to you, but just not that, not that common. Um, and we use both of these drugs for both men and women. You might, I'm just gonna say for completeness' sake, um, I didn't mention doasteride, but that is also in the class like phenasteride um and can be used maybe even a little more effective in some instances, but most people are very familiar with phenasteride, which has the brand name of propecia. Oh, okay, got it. Yeah, I have heard of that. Um But I take minoxidil and orally, and so I'm very comfortable with that. I've taken doutasteride uh in the past. Um, you have to be careful with all of these drugs uh in women because you don't want to get pregnant while you're taking them. Um they come with some side effects that include birth defects or just complications generally speaking with pregnancies. Yes. Yes, complications. Yeah. So just not an eye not not something you can do. Uh and detasteride actually stays in a woman's system for like a really long time. I want to say it's like six months, even after you stop it. So that's really not used in a woman that could become pregnant. Hmm. Got it. More than you ever wanted to know about the oral meds. Yeah. And then so those are now I you've also there's there's also other things you can do drug-wise that are just topical. Mm-hmm. Like you said, rubbing minoxidil on your Yeah. So all those all well, there's topical finasteride, there's topical um minoxidil in the form of rogain over the counter. Um, so so yeah, you could definitely do topical. Um, it's just whether you can be consistent. Um, but there definitely are studies that show um great results with topical. Um, you don't have to take oral, but I think it's just really hard to stay with those. Um, plus, you know, this is a lifelong therapy basically once you start. Um, if you stop. Yeah, you're not convincing your body to regrow hair and keep it. You're just convincing your body to regrow hair while you're treating with topicals and oral medicines. Right. So things will slowly revert when you stop saying. You get your full head of hair back and then you think, okay, I'm done. But then you just gotta keep an eye on how quickly it falls out again. Because the body has decided we're done growing these hairs. Unless you're gonna help us out, we're done. There's no permanent reversal. There's no permanent reversal. There's some other treatments though, maybe we'll talk about next time, that are more in the cosmetic space. Right. Well, there's also what are the what are the other medicines? Like a lot of these same medicines too can be applied like through injection. Some of them, yes. You've played around with some of that on me before. I have. Which is a lot of these same drugs that we just mentioned, but you tiny little needles, right? How did that feel in your scalp? You you loved it. The needles in your scalp doesn't feel good. But if you numb it first with a topical numbing, then it's totally doable. Benjamin here has a really amazing pain tolerance. Yeah. Thank you. That was a joke. Sarcastic. Uh yeah. Those um those injections are a little more challenging to come by. You have to get them compounded from a compounding pharmacy. Um, but yeah, I I do think they can be effective. You just Yeah, then you gotta have somebody do it though. I mean, I'm lucky enough that where you can order a compounded, you know, drug from a pharmacy, have it shipped to us, and then you can just I can just sit on the couch and you just hover over me shoving needles into my scalp. Most people aren't going to do that at home and like rig up a bunch of mirrors. Oh, you well, you can't do it. I mean, you just like if that would not be like you can't get that drug. You can't inject it. You would have to order it. Have them into the clinic and then yeah, and then do that for them. Yeah. But it's something also you have to be consistent with and keep getting done. But it does allow um, most commonly it's doutasteride that's done, and that's what we've done with you. And basically, you know, you don't get the systemic side effects. Ideally, the systemic side effects of decreased libido um when you're injecting it. Yeah. Got it. So there you go. There's an option. If you like the sound of needles coming out your head. Yeah. Injecting all kinds of fun stuff into your scalp, and go make an appointment with your local dermatologist. Oh, yeah, we have all sorts of fun things we like to inject into the scalp. So we'll talk about those cosmetic things next time. Yeah. So do you want to wrap it up here? Yeah. Anything else we should mention on this one? Well I know hair loss and and therapies and treatments can go on for a while. Yeah, we also didn't even talk about suppl supplements. Um, so maybe we'll hit that. Yeah. All right. Well next time too. Stay tuned. We'll um keep talking about this stuff. We got uh I think we were gonna talk about hair loss the whole time, but then this new Sephora thing came in, so we thought good to address that while it's topical. Yeah, I was excited about that. I bet. All right. Well There you go, that wraps up another one. Um I think this is also probably the best one we've ever done. Definitely. Bye.