A celebrity esthetitician goes down, a husband says dumb things, and Dr Jeffy has the weirdest phobias

Dr Jeffy and husband discuss Amazon Prime Day and a preference for supporting brands directly. They cover a California scandal involving celebrity esthetician Sonia Dakar, accused in a lawsuit of causing severe facial burns. They react to a Japanese product that temporarily tints your nipples. In listener Q&A, they explain keloids, share phobias, and name unnecessary skincare products.

ABOUT DERM & DUMBER

Derm & Dumber is a podcast hosted by board-certified dermatologist Dr. Brooke Jeffy and her husband, where skincare, relationships, internet trends, and questionable opinions collide.

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DISCLAIMER

The information discussed on this podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Listening to this podcast does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Always consult your own physician or qualified healthcare professional regarding medical concerns, diagnoses, or treatment decisions.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Welcome to Derman Dummer. Let's get into it. Last week we had Amazon Prime Day sales.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

Yes, we did.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

And you had some people asking you for your recommendations on what sort of products they should gather up during that sale. And you had a response that went something like, What?

SPEAKER_06 0:47

So in the past, I have given Prime Day Beauty recommendations, but I've always been a little bit hesitant about recommending products, beauty products, skincare products from Amazon, just because there are so many like third-party sellers, and you have to worry about whether the item you're getting is counterfeit. And also, I kind of feel like you just should support the brand directly versus supporting Amazon and, you know, giving them a cut of it, especially with like smaller brands. And now that like with my line, for a while we had between selling on Amazon. And I just learned a lot more about the ins and outs of that and the options for, you know, having Amazon fulfill. And just it takes away from, you know, your margin, uh especially if you're a small company.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:57

And, you know, supporting Amazon.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Right. So So this year you decided to just hold off on telling everybody to go get their stuff on Amazon.

SPEAKER_06 2:07

Yeah. I mean, look, I shop on Amazon. I mean, Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

That's not to say we don't shop at Amazon. We are Amazon shoppers.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

But I try to be mindful of it, but like, you know, just the convenience factor, damn them, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:24

It's hard to beat. It's hard to argue. And if your wallet is your primary concern, which it is for most people, then don't blame you for going where it's cheapest. But yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:35

So yeah, I mean, I've done these in the past though, where I've recommended what to get on Prime Day for for skin for skincare. And um, you know, I've tried to recommend things that are not often counterfeited, but um I just, you know, decided not to do that this year. Take a little bit of a stand against it.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

You're so brave.

SPEAKER_06 2:57

Yeah. So I mean, personally, I don't really buy skincare or makeup on Amazon.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:04

So I do try to buy directly from the brand or of course something like Sephora or Ulta, just because like it's again a convenience thing, but I still feel like it's better than Amazon, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Got it.

SPEAKER_06 3:22

Alright.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Well.

SPEAKER_06 3:23

Would you order?

SPEAKER_03 3:26

What the I did get some things. I no, I didn't. I got one thing. No. I got two things. And they're both related to this podcast. One is a new microphone, which isn't the one I wanted, but is an upgrade from what we had. And the other is a another hard drive just because all these files are starting to take up all this space on our computers. So I needed more storage space. Got it. And I found a deal. And I was lucky because for the most part, Prime Day deals are not good deals. They're just low prices or just they're prices for products that are at their lowest. Like Amazon has its own tool that almost like undoes this whole thing where you can click on price history for almost any item and it tells you what the price has been for the last month, three months or a year. And I did that for everything we got. Yeah. And none of the thing, none of these two things I got, the microphone or the hard drive, were less than they had ever been. They were just at their lowest price that they had been maybe a month ago or so dumb. Yeah. So they just jacked the price up on everything right before Prime Day. Then take it back down to its kind of normal price or it's Yeah. So yeah. No, I don't know. It's a it's a scam. And I don't know. Maybe they're it's not a scam.

SPEAKER_06 4:45

It's just uh But then it forces a lot of other companies. So like I was noticing this in, you know, with some of the skincare brands I shop, like, you know, then they offer discounts to be yeah, honestly more competitive. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

No, Costco got in on it. Yeah. I love Costco. I'd love to support Costco. That's a cool company. That's a great company. So they had member appreciation days. Great.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

I didn't buy anything from them, though. I mean, I don't know. It was like they just put a sale on everything they have. So anyways. Gotcha. All right. We're turning into a different this is a different topic altogether. It was supposed to be about skincare and Amazon Prime Day sales, whatever. Okay. Anything else that uh happened recently that uh caught our attention or it was on your social media?

SPEAKER_06 5:37

Um Yeah, there um is a big scandal in the celebrity aesthetician world. I'm sure you've heard of it.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

Uh huh. No, I've heard of celebrities and I've heard of aestheticians. But so you're saying this the aesthetician is a celebrity? Or it's an aesthetician that treats celebrities?

SPEAKER_06 5:56

Aaron Ross Powell It's an aesthetician that treats celebrities. Do you know what an aesthetician does?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

There's one in your office.

SPEAKER_06 6:03

Okay. Well, what does she do?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Cosmetic. What do I do? Cosmetics. Other cosmetic stuff.

SPEAKER_06 6:11

Okay. So there's certain things that is within the scope of an aesthetician doing.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:19

And then there are things that are not within their scope, like more aggressive. And it depends on the state, like what they're allowed to do and like the procedures they're allowed to perform. But a lot of it, at least in this state, has to do with like depth, like how like, you know, like they can't inject things, for example.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

Right.

SPEAKER_06 6:43

Um, and they can do laser to a certain setting. Point. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

There's aesthetician-friendly settings on lasers. Yeah. And they're just not allowed to go above certain.

SPEAKER_06 6:56

They're just not allowed to go, yeah, above certain things. But I I don't know all the rules in every state. They're definitely all going to be different. But um this particular woman is, yes, a celebrity dermatologist. So she esthetician.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Oh. You said dermatologist.

SPEAKER_06 7:11

Celebrity esthetician.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 7:13

And she's in California. And celebrities like Gwyneth Paltrow and Drew Barrymore apparently are clients of hers. But there is this woman. Um, I mean, the lawsuit is all over, so easy to find this information. But her name is Victoria Nelson. And apparently she was going to this esthetician and ultimately experienced some really dramatic burns to her face.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Which one of the celebrities did?

SPEAKER_06 7:42

No, no, no. This woman, Victoria Nelson, who I don't know who she is. But the esthetician's name is Sonia Dracar.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Ooh. Mm-hmm. Do you remember Dracar Noir? I knew you were gonna say that as soon as That was so big in high school. Man, people loved that fragrance.

unknown 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Okay, go on. Um I don't want to sidetrack you.

SPEAKER_06 8:08

Yeah. So um apparently she did some kind of peel on this woman's face and left her with like really severe burns, essentially. So, you know, you can this woman, I guess, documented her experience and journey and the lawsuit and everything on social media.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Um As you do.

SPEAKER_06 8:28

Of course. And anyway, sh this woman has now like lost her license for I think at least three years. And then if she is to want to be an aesthetician again, she has to go through this reapplication process and pay all this restitution money to this woman who was injured. But um So what what did she do?

SPEAKER_03 8:47

She did an acid peel?

SPEAKER_06 8:48

Some kind of acid peel, but it's not known. Insane concentration. That is exactly what has she done this to other people? Was it an error? No idea. But basically, in this woman who's documenting it, you know, in her photos and and such, I mean, you can look at her pictures.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Let me see.

SPEAKER_06 9:09

And yeah, I'll show you. And so basically when you're doing a chemical peel. Whoa. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

That the white part is the burn.

SPEAKER_06 9:16

Right. So when you're doing a chemical peel and you're putting whatever acid you're treating with on the face, um, in particular, probably I would guess uh maybe something called TCA was involved here. Anyway, you can kind of gauge where you are in the level that you're treating, depending on how the skin looks. So you know, I'm showing Benjamin this picture right now where this woman has these white, like starkly white marks. It looks like tape.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

There's tape on her face. That is so such a stark discoloration.

SPEAKER_06 9:49

So did she spill something the way it looked? I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Why would you apply it in that pair? It looks like a letter P in a stylized letter P. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

I would uh yeah, I'd look into hiring a lawyer if I came out looking like that too. Now, is that gonna heal?

SPEAKER_06 10:05

I mean, yes. I haven't seen her pictures. She ended up having apparently a lot of procedures after this to try to improve it, all by the same woman, which is crazy because like if you did this to someone and you saw the severity of this, because when you see, when you apply an acid on the skin and you see this white color, it means you have gone like really deep. Like you have fully like ablated the skin. Like you, I don't ever want to see this. Like, this is too much.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Right.

SPEAKER_06 10:37

So, what this woman should have done is send her to like a plastic surgeon or a burn specialist, even. But apparently the she had the esthetician had this girl come back and do all these other treatments like microneedling and things on top of it to try to improve it.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

So Yeah, all the things that are only within her scope to do, which are probably not helpful because she's to the point now where she needs a little bit more advanced learning behind.

SPEAKER_06 11:08

Yeah. So whether it was an accident, whether she was trying to do something different, whether she picked up the wrong, you know, concentration or, you know, who knows?

SPEAKER_03 11:21

She put the undiluted bottle right next to the diluted bottle. What an amateur move.

SPEAKER_06 11:26

But but yeah, she's apparently a very, you know, big name.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

And now Gwyneth Padre and Drew Barrymore will have to find someone else. Do her facial celebrities.

SPEAKER_06 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

It's funny. The I mean, why would you I don't know. Okay, I don't know. Like I feel like those people could celebrities can afford. I guess once this you get a reputation as a celebrity one. I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Once you get a reputation as a celebrity, you know, like you're just then you just referral.

SPEAKER_06 11:54

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

They start coming in.

SPEAKER_06 11:56

Um, you know, um celebrities, you know, they want their skin to have you know, if they have events, things like this, that would be like a common reason you would go to an aesthetician for a treatment that's like a facial that gives you like some really rapid hydration and like, you know, make your skin look a little brighter immediately. And so, you know, that's definitely within an esthetician's scope more than maybe a you know, going to a dermatologist before a red carpet event.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Oh, I see. I see.

SPEAKER_06 12:31

For like a facial or you know, some kind of just like quick.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Got it. Yeah. Oh no. Hey, shout out to aestheticians. That one in the one we share an office space with is fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 12:42

Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Shout out burn to death. Uh yeah. Okay. Well, hopefully this woman is able to recover from this. Because that looks rough.

SPEAKER_06 12:56

Yeah. This is why you need to always be sure. I mean, again, who knows what happened here, but to be sure that someone knows what they're doing, has a lot of experience. I mean, I think this one probably did check off those categories. So again, who knows if this was just like a fluke thing, but just a good reminder to be sure that whoever's doing something to you, you know that they're experienced doing it.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Yeah, I mean you're comfortable with it. But I guess if you start getting all these recommendations and these referrals from celebrities, you know, that also makes the public stand at attention and go, ooh, I could see the same person that, you know, all these famous people are going to. To me, I feel like that's gotta be in the realm of oops. That was just an accident. Like Yeah. Why? I mean, if it was Did that appear immediately, you think. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 13:45

You see it immediately.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 13:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Because it's like not just on that side of the face. Yeah. Right? There's some at the the top of the middle of her forehead. Crazy.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

All right. Well, don't know.

SPEAKER_06 14:02

But look, look. Like if I see that, I'm terrified. Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

So You've never seen that when you did fields on people?

SPEAKER_06 14:10

Well, you're watching incredibly closely for this. Because unless you want this and you're doing it in a very controlled manner, not a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

All right. Well, yeah. So look up Victoria Nelson if you want to see pictures of that poor woman's face. All right.

SPEAKER_06 14:33

Well, yeah, well, you discovered something the other day you were asking me about a weird product. How did you remind me? How did you discover this certain tent that you were asking me about?

SPEAKER_03 14:47

It was right before we were recording an episode, and I wanted to look into it more. It was I was just sitting here uh scrolling on um uh Instagram because I don't know. That's what I try to do before we record one of these to see if something catches my eye and I can bring it up topically. And this, and I don't know why this appeared on my phone because I don't get this stuff. Because, you know, but except maybe the fact that, you know, the phone's always listening, but and it hears us talking about these things or weird products, or the fact that I was in Asia a couple of months ago, and you were always sending me texts and pictures of beauty products from Asian countries. Maybe that's why it came across.

SPEAKER_06 15:32

All right, tell them what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Yeah. So this thing is about a popular product in Japan and what its purpose is, is to tint the color of your nipples, right?

SPEAKER_06 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

I mean And so I was shocked that this was a real product and I sent it to you. Or I didn't even send it to you because we were sitting here ready to record, and I was like, look at this. Yeah. And you had never heard of anything like that before.

SPEAKER_06 15:57

No. No. I mean, I was we were talking like there's like lip tints, you know, that like stain.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

And so I asked, is that in the same category as that stuff, right? It's like the idea is and it looks like it is.

SPEAKER_06 16:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Because the thing said that this product is just it lasts for like 24 hours. Right. And it's it. So and then of course a deeper dive reveals that like in Japanese culture, like the color of your nipples is indicative of youth or beauty or something. And so they all want lighter colored. I don't know. You know?

SPEAKER_06 16:33

Yeah, because it was like kind of like a pinkish sting stingy.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

Yeah, it died, it changed, it tinted them into a lighter color. Yeah. Because if you nipples are on the darker side, it made them lighter, pinker, I guess. So and then yeah, it looked like you're applying it like you do on lips, which is the only time I've ever seen a tint. Yeah. And you said that it is basically the same thing, probably.

SPEAKER_06 16:54

Yeah. Which leads me to then say, why? Yeah. I mean, okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Yeah. It's so dumb. I mean, like, you don't see that one coming to America?

SPEAKER_06 17:06

And No, I definitely it's probably already in America. But I I mean, like, I haven't uh yeah, I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Uh I just never you've had ever had a patient come in and be like, I'm really concerned about the color of my nipples?

SPEAKER_06 17:22

Yeah, I mean, I guess if I was like y'all I I mean, you know, as a almost 50-year-old woman, I care zero about what that would be looking like. I mean, maybe there's one person maybe occasionally seeing this. And, you know, I just uh that takes a level of effort and care that I'm not sure I would have ever had, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

No. Yeah, even in your most sensitive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:57

And what's the like, I don't know. I just was thinking about this. Like, is it I mean, I guess it's like a lip balm if it's on like your lip or a lip tint, if it's on your lips, it's like safe to ingest. I guess if someone's coming near this, probably, I guess, safe like a I I mean, I I don't know. I didn't do a deep dive into these.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Well, when the the the video showed that you uh somebody was applying it to like a brown spot on their arm.

SPEAKER_05 18:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

And so they put it on, left it on for a second, and then just wiped it away. Right. And then it was showed it was slightly lighter colored.

SPEAKER_06 18:35

Yeah, more of a pinkish brown than just.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

And I guess it's supposed to just duplicate that for the nipple. I just don't. I mean, so parents. Yeah. Be on the lookout if your kids starting to get show concern.

SPEAKER_06 18:50

If your daughters are starting to Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Or I mean, I it's not necessarily it could be your your sons, too. I don't as a look, as a as a straight male, I don't any y Who cares what color the nipple is? I just can't see myself caring that much about it. If a girl Just as long as it's there.

SPEAKER_06 19:13

If a girl is in your face, you're fine.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

That's right. Who cares? If a woman yeah, the the best the best boobs are the ones that you're allowed to play with. Oh my god. I'll leave it at that. Nobody cares what they look like color-wise, shape-wise.

SPEAKER_06 19:29

Uh-huh. This really has.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

There you go. I'm just putting that out there. For any of you self-conscious women. Got it. This guy doesn't care.

SPEAKER_06 19:37

You're very much helping empower women.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 19:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Never say I'm not. I'm not uh this very strong feminist. Right. So yeah. Well, there's that. There's that weird product. Yeah, I don't I didn't really want to talk about it last time because I literally saw it right before we started recording, and I was like, well, we need to just bookmark that and look into it more.

SPEAKER_06 20:00

So Yeah. Well, and then I I hadn't really shared this with you yet, but uh also reflecting back on a previous episode, I thought this was entertaining that our son, we were hanging out the other night yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 20:17

He ru our son actually got in the pool with me.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Yeah, that's rare these days.

SPEAKER_06 20:23

He spent like 10 minutes of time with his mother without a screen or demanding anything.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah. As a 16-year-old, that's rare to very rare.

SPEAKER_06 20:37

And so he one of the things he asked me while we were swimming was if I'd ever heard of clavicular.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

Oh. You think he's going back and listening to our podcast? When did we talk to him? No. Or when did we talk about that? That was our first episode Maybe the first episode. Yeah, with the bone smashing kid. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

All right. So what was the context?

SPEAKER_06 20:56

He just asked Yeah, he just asked if I had heard of the little concerning.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Does that mean it's finally come across his sphere?

SPEAKER_06 21:05

But I'm pretty sure that like even be before we recorded that first episode, I might have like asked him something about it.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 21:12

But again, he probably wasn't paying attention.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

No.

SPEAKER_06 21:15

And it went one in one ear and out the other. Um, so I asked him I said, yes, actually. Dad and I talked about it on the podcast. And of course he was like, oh, you know, cringe. Cringe. Uh he has no desire to listen to our podcast and things podcasts are my parents if they're my parents either. Right. But um yes, so I was asking him just kind of what he knew about clavicular clavicular. And, you know, he mentioned the bone smashing. Um, but he said that that's really kind of he thought was a a pretty rare thing in the in the clavicular.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

None of his friends are doing it.

SPEAKER_06 21:58

Right. But he did remind me that he's done it on his shins.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Uh oh, training them to be able to take kicks damage from Do people know that he does like MMA gym stuff?

SPEAKER_06 22:12

I mean, I don't know. I guess you're sharing that right now.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Well, okay, I'm just saying because if if they didn't, that's the context with which that makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

If it makes a l any sense, it makes a little sense in that context.

SPEAKER_06 22:24

I guess. So yes, then we talked about how, like, yes, I know you do this to your shins, but like that's a little different than like trying to control the shape of your face and how a bone is going to like regrow and all of this. And I don't know, he just kind of seemed like he had just sort of hurt learned about this and, you know, this guy. And I was kind of like, well, you know, other things he does is like, you know, injecting things into his face. And I was like, de asking him, like, do you think that he has the ability to get things that are safe to inject in his face? And Rowan thought, yes, he probably could have access to safe things, which then I just was like, No. I don't want to have this conversation. And you have to get these products from certain safe channels, or you don't know what you're getting. So I took it as an educational opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Great. I'm sure it all sunk in, and he's grateful for the new knowledge that his mom gave him. Okay. Well, there you go. Yeah. It's a shame I missed out on that conversation.

SPEAKER_06 23:35

Yeah. So let's move on to maybe the best portion of our podcast to date.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Okay. I'm excited to hear what that is.

SPEAKER_06 23:50

And these are stupid things that Benjamin has said lately that I have been secretly keeping track of.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Oh great. So now I'm gonna have to sit here and defend myself.

SPEAKER_06 24:04

This is what the people want.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Okay. Well, I gotta give the people what they want.

SPEAKER_06 24:10

Okay. So Benjamin is very new to the world of social media. I mean, only got an Instagram account forever ago to like just follow me.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

That's right.

SPEAKER_06 24:26

Never had posted a single thing, doesn't know anything about how it works. Let's just put it that way.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

I was literally asking you just before we started recording about an hour before, what this red dot meant in the corner of my Instagram and how do I get rid of it?

SPEAKER_06 24:45

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Okay, go on. I'm not gonna defend myself for that. You're right. Or there's nothing to defend here.

SPEAKER_06 24:51

So at some point recently, you asked me if I had to personally respond to every message that I got sent. I think you had discovered the inbox on Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

Right.

SPEAKER_06 25:11

Maybe through Benjamin did set up the Derman Dummer Instagram account. So maybe he was exploring a little bit there. And maybe you saw the little DM box or something. And you were just like, how do you respond to all of these things? You have to do this like individually. And I just thought that was hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Well Okay. Maybe I'll defend a little bit. Maybe d is that what I meant? Is do you have to? Or did I feel was it more like a do you feel obligated? Maybe that was a I think that's probably what I had to mean. Like obviously I know you don't have to respond to anything. Well But like, do you feel obligated? Because, you know, you're in a position where you've gotten kind of big on Instagram and people come to you now for like advice on so many different things.

SPEAKER_06 26:05

Well, I took it kind of to mean that like you do not realize how much can be automated on Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's that. Because I started to see things where like a guy will play a video and then at the end of it, it'll be like, comment this word to be sent information or a link to my so whatever.

SPEAKER_06 26:26

Maybe that's what it was. That's what it was. And then you were like, oh, so you have to repl this person has to respond to every to like send them a link because they when in their type, they have to go back there and like So no.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:41

Welcome to the world of automation sequences.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah, what a world.

SPEAKER_06 26:46

Through various platforms that you can connect with Instagram. And that's like a super popular way to easily get someone something, is like they comment this word, and then you have set up this automation that anytime anyone sets up this sends this word, something gets sent. Something automatically gets triggered to send Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Well, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

That's very convenient. Yeah. Let the robot overlords take over. It was just I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

It was really funny how you thought that Yes, you were just sitting there and I well, I mean you spend a lot of time on your phone sometimes. So okay. I thought maybe you were just sitting there, literally. Copy and paste, copy, paste, copy, paste, send, send, send.

SPEAKER_06 27:32

Mm-hmm. All right.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_06 27:35

Good job. Well, I'm glad we got to the bottom of that.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 27:38

This one is much more entertaining, maybe, let's say. So let me let me set the scene for people on this. We were out on a walk when this happened. And well, let me even go back further. I think you guys have been you some of you guys have been listening, you know that I'm almost 50. We've talked about what? No way. It's a secret. Me taking uh progesterone uh for sleep. Um so I mean, you kind of know my age, and that's sort of like, you know, that part of hormone life that I might be experiencing. Well, also let me share this that like literally like a week before this walk, I had asked Benjamin to pick up some feminine hygiene products from the store because Benjamin does all the shopping. Let's just put that out there. I don't belong in a grocery store. I don't enjoy a grocery store or any shopping. I don't know where anything is. This is Benjamin's room.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Yeah. I'm at home in the grocery show. I like it. I do all the cooking, might as well do all the picking out of the food.

SPEAKER_06 28:56

So anyway, that's the stage. He had just purchased this stuff. Keeps track of my cycle for his own reasons. Which I mean, I'm I'm happy for. I it's one less thing that I have to track.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

I don't mind it's it's it's on the family calendar. Who cares? It's just a for a long time there when child having was a thing.

SPEAKER_06 29:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 29:18

That was that was it's just a carryover from that part of our life.

SPEAKER_06 29:22

Okay. All right. So Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Where's this going?

SPEAKER_06 29:25

So we're on this walk, and you're you're like asking me if I am in menopause. Like you asked me if I was in menopause. I think we were talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

Go ahead. I'm I'll wait till you're done before I try to defend any of this.

SPEAKER_06 29:46

No, I mean, like, that is the gist of it. And I was like, Out of the blue. We were Dude, I think we were talking about sleep. And I was talking about how it sucked that there was nothing that you could take that worked as well for sleep as, you know, what I was taking. And then you were like, yeah, but like you're you're in in menopause. So you can do that. And I'm like, wait, menopause? Like, I feel like there's a lot of things that maybe someone doesn't know about medicine or health, but like that's a pretty black and white, you know, for some people, bit of knowledge from health class.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Let me go here. Is it my or you want to keep going? You think in a health class that I would have taken recently enough to remember that we talked about menopause?

SPEAKER_06 30:36

I mean, I just figured as an adult human, you knew that if someone is still having cycles, then they are have not gone through menopause. Okay. Is that a fact that you knew?

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Yeah, obviously. I know that that when they're over, they're then then that then yeah, then that's a part of it. I don't know. I don't know what to say about all this. I don't I I I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have asked that question because I didn't know.

SPEAKER_06 31:05

There had to have been some other 100% you asked that question because I immediately busted out the notes app on my phone. It was like, I'm gonna add this to the list of dumb crap you've asked.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

All right. Well, so okay. There it is. Maybe just take a moment to educate me. Obviously, you're throwing around the word perimenopause all the time these days.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

So, yeah, maybe I was wondering if we had crossed the line from peri to full-on.

SPEAKER_06 31:35

Well, yeah, that's what that means. So I feel like you should have known that.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

And I've been praying to that you enter the menopausal period of your life for so long so that you can finally experience being hot. Remember? Like that's my joke.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

Because we are a couple that, like, traditionally do not get along when it comes to the thermostat.

unknown 31:59

No.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Our body temperatures could not be further apart.

unknown 32:02

No.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

I am currently running at 150 degrees, it feels like. And you're basically wearing a sweatshirt.

SPEAKER_06 32:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

And it's probably a hundred degrees outside right now.

SPEAKER_06 32:13

It's windy in here.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Um yeah, I have to have a fan on just to be in this room.

SPEAKER_06 32:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

So you just So I've been so excited for you to experience some hot flashes and appreciate what it's like to be hot all the time. So we can actually have the thermostat at a nice low freezing temperature.

SPEAKER_06 32:32

Yes, but you just said cross into it. So what do you think that is? And you clearly knew if you if you knew what that was that that had not happened.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

I guess. I don't know. Maybe maybe you had a maybe you had a feeling. Okay. That you were just done. All right. You just hadn't told me yet. I was just trying to get current.

SPEAKER_06 32:54

Uh-huh.

unknown 32:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 32:57

So TMI on that.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Yeah. There you go. We're getting real personal now.

unknown 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

Do you want to just like make a recording as soon as it happens? Sure.

unknown 33:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

So let everybody know.

SPEAKER_06 33:11

We'll get on immediately.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

Immediately.

unknown 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Be like, that's it. Right. I've had I can feel it. That's the last egg to deposit from my ovaries.

SPEAKER_06 33:22

Or first hot flash.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Oh. Yeah. God, I can't wait.

SPEAKER_06 33:28

I mean I can't wait to. I kind of can't wait either. Like, it sucks always being cold. Yeah. And it sucks with you always yelling at me for being cold. Like I can't like I'm interpreting it incorrectly.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Well, because you are.

unknown 33:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

I'm not yelling at you for being cold. I'm yelling at you for interpreting a hundred-degree hot air as cold.

SPEAKER_06 33:51

I don't like it br blowing across my skin. I know. That makes me cold.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 33:56

All right. Should we move on? Do we have any time for some questions?

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Yes, we do. I think we're we're doing fine.

SPEAKER_06 34:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

We're not pushing it too late. Hopefully not boring everybody too much. Let's uh do some more of the uh increasingly popular listener questions. Um Let's do it. Let's see. Okay. Uh question number one. A listener asked, uh how do you treat keloids?

SPEAKER_06 34:24

Um, do you know what keloids are?

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Nope.

SPEAKER_06 34:26

Let's start there. Really? You never heard of it.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

I've heard you say the word before, but I've never bothered to pay attention to what it is. If it's Okay. Have I ever had one?

SPEAKER_06 34:35

Uh no, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Okay. Is it like a cyst?

SPEAKER_06 34:38

No.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

Dang. I was just guessing.

SPEAKER_06 34:41

So a keloid is an exuberant scar reaction.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Wait a minute.

unknown 34:48

What?

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Come here. Hold on. We're gonna do what is this? That's just an old man's spot. This is a spot that you froze off.

SPEAKER_06 34:55

Yeah, it just needs another freeze.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

And look, yeah, now it's got this like white bump on it.

SPEAKER_06 35:00

It's a subarrhea keratosis, which is a scaly spot that we get with age. That yes, maybe it didn't go all the way away with the freeze that we did.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

All right. Well. But not a keloid. Based on your initial description of what a keloid was, I thought for sure you gave me one.

SPEAKER_06 35:17

That's just old man.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Okay.

unknown 35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

I don't know who this old man is you're referring to, but go ahead. All right. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 35:23

Yeah, so a keloid is a scar, a type of scar uh that's too it's overgrown. So you can have kind of a normal scar, which is going to usually be like flat. Um, you can have a hypertrophic scar where the scar gets a little bit thick. And then there are keloids at the other end of the spectrum. Um you maybe see people who have these like on their earlobes sometimes. Like if you see these big growth, maybe you are not seeing these things.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

No.

SPEAKER_06 35:54

Um so sometimes people have them from piercing, sometimes people have them from like really bad acne, scarring, especially like on the chest or the back.

SPEAKER_05 36:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 36:03

Um can happen like with surgeries too, if it's an area that's, you know, not as not as easy to heal. Um, and then also people who have a little more pigment in their skin tend to be more prone to having keloids. Okay. So yeah, we treat them with, I mean, there's a lot of different things. Um, you can cut them out and kind of start over with the healing process. And then there's some things you can do immediately after doing that to die to try to decrease uh the tendency of them recurring. Um, so things like really immobilizing the site, there's certain topical medications you can treat with, there's injections that you can treat with, and you can do some of those things directly to a cheloid, even if you don't cut it out to try to shrink it. So probably the most common thing that we do in clinic is inject steroids into the keloid. And over time.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Oh, I'm thinking steroids.

SPEAKER_06 37:00

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

So you've got to get real swole and then it goes away because of all the roids. Got it.

SPEAKER_06 37:06

Right. So steroids can have this side effect where they thin the skin.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

You're right. I've heard of that.

SPEAKER_06 37:12

Yeah. So we're taking advantage of that when we're trying to treat a keloid with them. Got it. You can also do things like freezing them. Um, you can introduce through these probes liquid nitrogen to the middle of them. I think some people will irradiate them. Uh there's there's a lot of different things. But personally, what I do is cutting them out, topicals, injection of steroids.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

All right. Well, there you go. If you're suffering from one or more of those, go ahead and make an appointment with your dermatologist and they will uh help you clear them up. There's options. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

Cool. All right. Question number two. And this one, just somebody wants to get to know you better, I guess. Or somebody wants to freak you out. Because they are asking, do you have any phobias? Now I guess you could just say no. Or you could be honest.

SPEAKER_06 38:05

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

Go ahead. Tell us how weird you are.

SPEAKER_06 38:09

I mean have a normal phobia, I think, of bugs.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

True.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

You don't like bugs of any sort, do you?

SPEAKER_06 38:17

No. Like especially shelled bugs. But really Shelled. You know, they have shells.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:28

I don't like those. Okay. Those are disgusting. I don't like bugs. Um I often say to Benjamin, kill this bug. This is why you're around.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Pretty much worked it into the vows. Surprised you didn't, to be honest.

SPEAKER_06 38:46

Yeah. I mean, really, that's like what my normal phobia would be, but do you have any what someone might consider abnormal phobias? Uh.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Things that just sort of give you the willies.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

Yeah. So in our family, uh-huh. We call these the willards.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, I don't have any of those, but Me and Rowan do.

SPEAKER_06 39:11

You and our son have the series of So mine is two things, really.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 39:16

It honestly hurts me to say these things out loud.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

I love it. Because it starts to really freak me. I love it. Ow. I love it. You are squirming. So one thinking about it, you're squirming here.

SPEAKER_06 39:29

Yeah, so one is your the ankle bone, like in the your medial meal. Oh my gosh, I can never say that word either. Meal.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Wow. I'm leaving all of this in. No. To see you struggle with the medical teacher.

SPEAKER_06 39:46

Medial meal me oh my god. I really have to look at it in order to say it correctly, which is really bad.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 39:54

Um anyway.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

The ankle bone. If I said the interior ankle bone, do you think people will know what I'm talking about? Yes.

SPEAKER_06 40:01

Probably.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Versus whatever you're about to say?

SPEAKER_06 40:04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Meliolus.

SPEAKER_06 40:08

Yeah. The bony prominence on the inside of your ankle. Right. Yeah, I struggle with that word. Anyway. Um, so I have this thing about them touching, like the inside. The insides of my ankle bones touching.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

It's like if each of them, if you straighten your legs up and push them together, if they actually touched.

SPEAKER_06 40:28

Yeah. Which is a bit of a challenge when you like to do yoga. You know, I I always have to like be very conscious of like angling your legs. Like one foot in front of the other. Like they can never be right next to, or if they are right next to you, they have to be really far apart. So usually it's more just like one foot slightly in front of the other, because that's awful. So please let me know if any of anyone else out there has this.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

I never heard about it until you brought it up once.

SPEAKER_06 41:00

Yeah. So that's a terrible one because that's like every day that you have to think about that.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Oh my god. Every day you have to struggle with this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:10

I mean, you're in bed. You're yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

I just don't Yeah, I know. Where did this come from? Can you pinpoint a time in your life where that happened? I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 41:21

Are we going into therapy now?

SPEAKER_03 41:23

And we might need to.

SPEAKER_06 41:24

And then the other one is book pages.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Right. Book pages. Um like you've got to describe it.

SPEAKER_06 41:35

Yeah. So if you have a book that's closed and your hand or your finger rubbing the outside of the pages. Right. I don't know. Am I describing that well? Can you you know the phobia. You you know it.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

So you've got a book, it's closed, and you're looking at the pages, and they're all sealed or pushed together because the book is closed. Right. And you want to drag your finger across the pages or like up and down like paper cut style.

SPEAKER_06 42:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

Any really like if it was a single page, it would give you a paper cut.

SPEAKER_06 42:08

Yeah. And a single page is honestly fine. It's just No, that would give you a paper cut.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

That's less fine.

SPEAKER_06 42:14

Well, yeah, but it's just less willard inducing. I don't know why. Okay. Weird. All right. So I don't have a name for that either. But those are my two very upsetting things that I've think about.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

That's a weird Yeah, that's a phobia. Running your finger lengthwise down a page of a closed book. Okay. Moving on. That's fun. There you go, people. Now you know. Should you ever see her?

SPEAKER_06 42:39

Do you have any phobias? I don't even know if you have any phobias. Oh, wait, yeah, you do. Oh, yeah, you do. The T-word with the holes.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Yeah, but that's, I mean, I guess it's a phobia. That's a phobia. It's really like, but sometimes if I like see something like that, I can not, I just don't, I can't look away.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

But it just gives you an unsettling look, you know, feeling in my stomach.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

And that's that uh trip tryptophobia, trypophobe. What's it called? How do you say it or spell it? T R Y? Trip T R Y P T. It's just, yeah. And it's just it's things in nature that have like holes. Tryptophobia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:15

It has like so I was, I recently, since we talked about your old man's spot, I recently lasered some of my old lady spots on my leg. And so I have all of these very circular Yeah, look like chickenpox. Kind of on my leg. And um somebody at work said it looked like she couldn't look at it because it reminded her of this. Oh, for real?

SPEAKER_00 43:41

No. See, that's see, well then kind of grouped. But then I maybe don't have the like.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

No, I don't know. I uh people can just Google it, look at pictures of it. Your leg doesn't look like that. That's crazy. Um but I mean that's I feel bad for her if that's how she Yeah. So I think that's a phobia for you. Okay. Sure. I guess if it can. But I can't like if I see an image You just look away and you feel gross. Uh yeah. If I stare at it, I but sometimes I just w I keep staring. I'm like, ugh, what an unsettling image. But I keep looking at it. But it's just yeah, it's just it's it's unsettling. And I think there's a uh I don't know, there's an evolutionary reason behind it. I I looked into it once, but you know, this and it's it's yeah, it's disturbing stuff. This is some Disturbing images. But anyways, okay, there you go. That's that. I don't really have any phobias. I guess I have that. And no willards for you. Aaron Ross Powell Willards? Oh, willies. Nothing gives me the willies, no.

SPEAKER_06 44:35

Yeah. Um Rowan's is seatbelts.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

Not just the not the concept of seatbelts, just that fabric. Fabric. That that that kind of scratchy super similar.

SPEAKER_06 44:46

He has it to other fabrics, but it's like a real problem with it. Well, it he's better now, but like it used to be a real problem when he was little because we would have to put the seatbelt on and then he would have to do this touching back and forth brushing thing. It was, I guess, like a OCD type of thing, kind of too, but he's still bothered by this fabric feel.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:08

So anyway, we're freaks.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Yep. Family of real freaks. I'm sure we're the only ones. All right. Well, do you uh wanna how many how many questions is that? Oh, that was two. All right, let's do one more.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

Um, okay. Somebody wants to know what your opinion is on the dumbest skincare products out there. Hmm. You got a you got a list or something you can just throw out real quick?

SPEAKER_06 45:33

Uh yeah, I mean, there's just kind of, I guess, like certain types of products that I think are kind of a waste of money, I guess. So toners don't think those are necessary to anyone's skincare routine. Can they be used? Sure. I mean, toners originated.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

I was gonna say, what is a toner? Outside of in relation to a printer, I don't know what toner is.

SPEAKER_06 46:00

Oh, okay. You didn't even know what a toner is.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

No.

SPEAKER_06 46:03

So this would be a liquid that you put on your skin to do something. So originally, um, people needed toners because they returned the skin to a more natural pH after using like really harsh soaps. Like I'm talking about like whenever soaps were created and they were made of like lye and stuff. So like it really messed up the skin's pH.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

Sweet.

SPEAKER_06 46:26

So you would use a toner to make the skin's pH balanced so that the skin barrier could be more, you know, healthy.

SPEAKER_05 46:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 46:35

Well, now soaps are not harmful like that. They're pH balanced themselves. So now this category of toners has evolved to do things like be astringents. So, like drying to the skin if somebody has like really oily skin or alcohol, um, oily skin or acne. Or maybe they're hydrating toners. So they're trying to put moisture in after cleansing, but it's like a very thin, watery type of product. So just really unnecessary.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

All right.

SPEAKER_06 47:09

In my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 47:10

Toners on the list. Toners. Eye creams. Eye creams. Is the cream you spread in your eyeball? No, Benjamin.

SPEAKER_06 47:20

On your eyelids, like your lower lid, crow's feet area. These are what eye creams are for.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

So then it's eye area cream.

SPEAKER_06 47:27

Okay. Yeah. Not eyeball cream. Different from eyeball cream.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

Okay, yeah. Yeah. What's eyeball cream?

SPEAKER_06 47:36

I don't I don't know if there's an eyeball cream.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

Uh okay. All right. I'm getting I'm getting a little silly. But uh okay, go on. Eye cream.

SPEAKER_06 47:45

So eye creams, in my opinion, you don't you do not need a separate product. You can just continue all of your normal skincare up to that area. I mean, there may be actives that you might use that are a little too harsh to use on the eyelid skin, which is thinner constantly like the rest of your face, but you don't really need a dedicated eye product. And you certainly don't need like a just a moisturizer that's specific to the eyelids. Your face moisturizer is fine.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:15

Um the same is true, I would say, of neck creams.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Like neck creams, okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:20

Yeah, there's a whole category of neck creams that do claim to do various things and are specifically marketed for your neck. But they're no different really than the conversation we just had about eye creams. Just to use it all on your neck too.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

Okay. Don't need specific creams for specific parts of the facial area. So face and neck area.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:45

Okay. Noted.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Anything else? Eye creams, toners? Neck creams.

SPEAKER_06 48:51

Those are the ones that the big ones in big skincare categories, I think, are not necessary.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:58

And you'd never even heard of them.

unknown 49:00

No.

SPEAKER_06 49:00

So I guess you're not wasting your money on them.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

No.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

No, I'm very frugal when it comes to my creams and balms, salves, ointments. You love these words.

SPEAKER_06 49:13

So frugal because you just use free ones that we get.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

We do get a lot of free ones. Keep those coming. Um all right. Well, we've gone on long enough. I think three questions is good. Um maybe we can keep it there unless uh we run out of something else to talk about one week.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

But yeah. Okay. Anything else? Nope.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

All right.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

All good. Well, I think that's probably the best podcast we've ever done. We'll see you guys next time.