Pervert glasses, Overcomplicating skincare & Products no one asked for

Dr Jeffy and husband discuss a couple follow-ups from the prior episode: the “sperm maxing” race results, a week using a UV-tracking necklace, and little more on Meta’s camera glasses after reports of non-consensual recording. Dr Jeffy talks about what she saw after a week on the beach. We also cover a meta-analysis showing control arms (cleansing, moisturizer, sunscreen) can significantly improve acne, melasma, rosacea, AKs, and PIH and we discuss L’Oréal using AI to repurpose skincare for new products. And of course, answer more listener questions!

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC13220015/?utm_campaign=button_list_ClinicalImplicationsofSkincareLessonsfromPlaceboControlledDermatologyTrials&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=later-linkinbio

ABOUT DERM & DUMBER

Derm & Dumber is a podcast hosted by board-certified dermatologist Dr. Brooke Jeffy and her husband, where skincare, relationships, internet trends, and questionable opinions collide.

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DISCLAIMER

The information discussed on this podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Listening to this podcast does not establish a doctor-patient relationship. Always consult your own physician or qualified healthcare professional regarding medical concerns, diagnoses, or treatment decisions.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Okay, let's get into it. I know we have a lot to talk about early because we have some follow-up stuff from last week's episode. And obviously we need to lead here with the number one, if you know, most interesting thing that we've ever talked about. Going all the way back to our first episode, and that is the sperm maxing races, which took place last week, and you have all of the details.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Sure. Uh it actually happened yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

You can still watch it on YouTube if you would like. Got it. Um so Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

All right.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Very interesting uh arrangement here with this. It ultimately pitted Germany versus Australia in this race.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

And they spent a lot of time talking about the two contestants in terms of what they did to try to, you know, optimize their sperm. So one of them was kind of more of this biohacker type of guy, took all these different types of peptides. And then the other guy was more of just uh, I try to live healthy, be happy. That was the Australian guy. Um, the biohacker guy was the German guy. And uh so I like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

The stereotypes seem to be fitting here with these companies.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

The laid-back Aussie fellow, just trying to live a good life.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

And the hardcore German engineer trying to figure out how to maximize his optimize his body. His his every cell in his body. Okay, go ahead. I love it. Yeah. The stage is set.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

So uh yeah, they had some announcers, you know, talking about this, really tried to make it like a sporting event. And then the event, which I don't know, 20 seconds, 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Oh, it wasn't a very large optical obstacle course.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Short, but you know, they had the sperm tagged so they really look like sperm in this little, you know, race course that they were on. And uh the Australian won it by a very good margin. Wow. So the whole just be happy and as healthy as possible seemed to like run out on this one.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

That's the takeaway.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Mm-hmm. All right.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

So don't worry about maximizing your sperm. Got it. Well, all right. So I think we're did the is that the is this the first one.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

The first, I think, of many races. Like this wasn't the final, as far as I understand, but I gotta also say these people do not do a very good job of communicating what is next, when things are.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Like shocking.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

It's not super clear because I think it's in the fall sometimes. These are just like the heats to get to the people who will ultimately be competing for the $100,000 prize.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Oh, so this was just like the first stage as far as as far as I can tell. Of this perhaps longer race to find the the best sperm.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

So yeah, we might be putting sperm maxing to bed.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, I might be fine with that. This has been how many episodes that this topic has come up, but shame on us for even bringing it up. But you know, how do you read something like that and not just want to go with it to it? And you know, the curiosity was piqued, and we're, you know, we're powerless against it. Um okay, and then a couple of other things from last week's episode where we talked about some technology. You were there was a r uh uh a necklace that was new to you, you were wearing, and you just got back from the beach. You went on your annual family, you know, extended when I just your immediate family vacation to the beach, and you were going to be trying out this necklace the whole time. How did you feel? How did it perform?

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yeah, I really liked it. Um again, I think it it looks great, and the information that it gave through the app is pretty useful. I liked how uh you get these alerts basically that tell you what the UV is going to be for the day in the morning, so you can kind of like prep and be aware. But then when you open the app, it tries to predict for you things like um how long you would need to be out to get optimal vitamin D based on like your skin type. So you fill out all this information when you're setting up the app, like your skin type, how quickly you burn, things like that. Um, and then on a day-to-day basis, you can you put in like what you're wearing. So you can choose like I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt, or I'm completely covered. Um, you can put in how many times and when you put in put on sunscreen, how aggressive you are with the sunscreen. And then it tries to tell you like how long you need to be out based on where you are to get vitamin D. So I think that's kind of like the most useful piece of information out of this app.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

For those who just want to get their vitamin D from the sun or aren't sure about where it comes from in their diet for the day, that's a good feature. All right. Oh, by the way, this thing was called the Gem.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

The Gem. I'm by this company called the 90.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Okay. Got it. I just want to make sure in case people were wondering.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Because we mentioned it last week, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Yeah. And then um, you know, it it also tracks how much time you are out and when the peak time is going to be during the day when you'd want to be most careful. And it also predicts how long it would take for you to burn in the current conditions.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

So I liked it. Um, one thing I do wish was that you could see like previous days. Um, I don't, I I can't, I don't think that's possible in the app to like see, oh, well, how how you did yesterday compared to today or whatever. I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Like look at your week's worth of experience.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah, it's just like your day. Um, but I really like it.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I'm gonna be using it. I'm sure there'll be improvements.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Yeah. I mean, it's a brand new company. Do they just have the one necklace? As far as I know, the one necklace, I mean, it comes in another color, but just the one product.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

You have the one that looks like an onyx circle inside of a gold front.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Okay. Yeah. So give it a look-see.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah. You put it to work, you got a week's worth of data, but ultimately you only have one day's worth of data. Because you only get the day's worth.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

It's just for the day, but that's all right. Look, right now I'm looking at it. We're at uh the peak for today for us here in Arizona is going to be eleven UV index.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah. Well, it is summer in Arizona.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Mm-hmm. Good to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

All right. Well Yeah, it's brutal out here. Um and now the monsoon season's kicked in. It's humidity, it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

It's just two kinds of did not get him started.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Two types of misery going on right now. Let this old man complain about the weather. It's what I'm best at.

unknown 7:29

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Does anybody want to start a podcast about weather talk? Because I I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna look into that.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Weather and birds?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah. Weather and birds. Yes. As you get older, you get into birds. Peak. It will be peak. That's peak, middle-aged man.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, moving on though.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Okay, the other thing. Well, go ahead. I was gonna bring up Oh, yes, do it. The other thing that we talked about last week, and this is just funny, it's not necessarily anything to do with skin. Um, you brought this up in the context of like seeing them in the office with patients, but those meta glasses, and this literally came to my attention uh about an hour or two before we started recording this. About the title of the article is The Backlash is so strong that people with quote pervert glasses, unquote, are afraid to use them in public. And it's just talking about Meta's camera-equipped AI glasses and how they're so divisive that some people and early adopters and people who are wearing them are just starting to leave them at home because uh there's a back, you know, backlash against them. And I understand why. They're they're pervy and creepy. Um and I guess influencers, mostly men, have been using these glasses to inconspicuously and often non-consensually record footage of themselves doing things like approaching women in bars and hitting on them and just like posting how those you know interactions go, and it's just it's creeping a lot of people out. So there's become, and I think rightfully so, a lot of backlash against these things.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Meanwhile, uh Mark Zuckerberg thinks they're the future, but that dude's been wrong a lot.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Yeah, I think he's I think he's wrong on this. Yeah. I mean, I understand it's the whole like more content, share your life.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Uh but I think there's a line that people will immediately cross.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yeah. There's yeah, they're m yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

So, okay, good. I'm glad.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Anyways, so yeah, that's funny. That was uh I didn't intend to talk anymore about those classes unless there was a reason to, but that just popped up and I thought, oh, that's good. We're heading the right direction if that article is uh accurate. So, anyways. All right, that was a quick recap of some things that happened in the last week that pertained to what we talked about last week. Um, which is just funny the way it all lined up like that.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

So, anyways, what um Yeah, I just wanted to go back to the fact that I was on vacation last week at the beach. Um I couldn't go.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Normally I go to this, but I couldn't go. And we have pets, it's a whole thing. Don't need the details of that. But anyways, you were there with your family. Yeah. Sisters and all the all the regulars.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Yeah. And I just wanted to, it's the first time I've gone on this vacation since having melanoma. And um, you know, it didn't really change a whole lot for me in terms of how I protect myself in the sun because I've been doing that forever. And, you know, we've talked about it before, basically, I'm just covered. Um but I will say it was a lot more kind of triggering to see what other people were doing on the beach. So before, when I would be out, I'd be just kind of like, eh, job security, these people are not smart.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Right. You'll see them in a couple of years when they're in the office getting all their spots cut off and frozen off.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yeah. But, you know, this time it was, I mean, there was that, of course, but then just also like, I can't believe the risk these people are putting themselves, you know, through. Um, you know, there was this one woman who was like right next to us. She had lighter skin than me.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Well is that possible?

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

And uh, I mean, I'm just like, she's got nothing on. I mean, a swimsuit, but I get, you know, and maybe sunscreen. I don't know, but like it was so hot there. And I'm just like literally watching her skin get redder and redder over like a short period of time.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Didn't see her out anymore after that. So I don't know what you know happened to her.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

But she got it all that she needed for the week in one day.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah. I mean, she might have been one of those people that, you know, getting blisters and you know, can't leave the house. I mean, I don't know. But kind of just frustrating. Also, like even, you know, with my family, who obviously I hound them a lot about being protected and they see me, but still get sunburned.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

So nice.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Well There you go. It's almost as if how wait, how old was this woman that you were, you know, just sort of making a mental note about, probably middle age?

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Yeah, well, I mean, probably a little younger, thirties to forties, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

So I'm saying like almost acted the way you used to act. Yeah, not in my Well, okay, maybe not no, you were smarter in your 30s and forties about sun protection.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

You weren't very smart in your teens and twenties. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

So But anyways, I'm interested saying it's hard to, you know, give people a hard time because that's what you were doing, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

And uh No, she should have known better, just like my family members should know better as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Um so Yeah. So yeah, it was just an interesting uh experience. Um I also had a few people um respond to some of the melanoma content that I'd posted over the past week, kind of saying saying things like, you know, uh like basically that I'm like overreacting about being worried about recurrence and you know, worried about a new melanoma and all of these things.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

And they're like, hey, you had it, you caught it, you're good now. Right. Stop worrying about it.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Basically. Yeah. So people will, you know, message me these things or make comments on content sometimes. And um, there was like a handful of those. So I just thought, you know, that's like you don't want to live your life in fear. I'm not saying that, but it's also not zero risk of these things.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

So once you've had it, do you need to be more vigilant? Or is there a reason to think it'll Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

I mean, even with like how early mine was. So I had stage one A, which is just like a step up from stage zero, which stage zero is essentially no risk of it coming back, no risk of recurrence. Um, and it can't metastasize because it hasn't gone deep enough to get any access to blood vessels. 1A is a step above that. Um, it's still very low risk, but the chance of recurrence is, you know, two to five percent. And but the chance of getting another melanoma is up to 10%.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

So, I mean, they're not huge numbers, but they're not also not zero numbers. And people will also message me who've had greater stage melanoma and be like, oh, you know, you just still have to, you know, you're gonna be fine. That's that's that's a lot of it. You're gonna be fine. And who wants, I just don't think that's the right way of looking at it either. Well, okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Or they literally mean like, hey, stop talking about this.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Is that also not kind of dismissive though? And like Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

It's hard to in you know, infer tone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

So, but uh anyways, maybe I was taking it the wrong way, but it just all that, like I got a couple of those comments while I'm watching everyone just like roast themselves and maybe it hit harder.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah. Well, there you go. Maybe. Yeah. Anyway. And we'll see. All right. Well, anyways, just be vigilant, especially if you've had it. That's the takeaway there.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, I mean, you just have to get your skin checked regularly, stay on top of things, be safe. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

All right. It's easy enough. Okay. Well, there you go. Okay. Moving on. Um, something that caught my attention this week because while you were away enjoying the beach and hanging out in the sun with your family, I was home and I was researching things to talk about this week. But uh something that caught my attention that I forwarded to you because I thought this was right up your alley was this article in um Oh, what was the website? I've already forgotten it. What what site was it on? Doesn't matter? Doesn't matter. Um anyways, it was a legit website. And it was it was kind of uh uh a meta study, right? Where they they they they looked at all these different studies and they said, what? I'll let you take over.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Okay. Hold on one second. I'm just gonna pull up the actual Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Um The actual article.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Article. Yeah. So uh it was called Clinical Implications of Skincare Lessons from Placebo Controlled Dermatology Trials in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Let's keep it dumb.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Oh, okay. What do those things mean?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Well, I no. I mean I I I know what they mean.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Okay. But no, like let's just this this this can get a little Well, I was just saying the name, but we will we will put the link in the show notes. How about that?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yes, got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

People can check that.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Uh yeah, so it was in a journal called Skin Health and Disease. So that's all I'm gonna say about that part. But um yeah, so the interesting thing about this was that um in studies related to dermatology, obviously that's what we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Um there are slow down, hold on now. I you already lost me. Okay. Oh my God. All right. Um so yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

There'll be uh comparisons of like certain topical treatments to treat a certain condition compared with what we call the vehicle, right? So for example, let's say you're studying an acne drug, and that is one of, you know, you mentioned this is a meta study. So what that means is the authors looked for all these studies where um uh conditions, certain conditions were investigated using a topical drug intervention versus a vehicle in these randomized trials. So they looked for studies related to acne, rosacea, actinic keratoses, melasma, and post-inflammatory pigment alteration. I think you know what most of these things are, but do you know do you remember what actinic keratoses are?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

No.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Those are pre-cancers, just um to cover that. And then melasma is pigment that um we can get. I think we've talked about that before from hormones, primarily in women. Um and then post-inflammatory pigment alteration is just when you have pigment that can happen after trauma, which certain people are more prone to, uh, that isn't permanent but can be lasting over like years. Okay. So they were looking at studies related to these conditions where there was a treatment involved, and then there was a control group that wasn't using the treatment. And basically the point of this was to highlight, I guess the authors you know had read enough studies that they realized that, hey, when you're reading these studies, you will see that sometimes the control arm also has good improvement in these conditions. So they wanted to look on a larger scale and pull all this data from multiple studies together. Right. So, you know, basically again, highlighting the benefit that these basic interventions were giving in in these conditions, even without being treated.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah. So um, I don't want to go into like too much detail, but I think it's kind of interesting for people to kind of hear some of the numbers related to um one condition because they were all very similar, but you can kind of get an idea um even if I just kind of talk about one. So there were these two trials done for acne. They encompassed 2,800 patients, so a good number of people. It was a phase three trial, which is basically trying to, on a larger scale, demonstrate the benefit of a drug. This was for something called um triferitine, which is a topical retinoid used for acne that is now marketed under the name acleaf.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Fancy. Yes. Acne and relief. That's a cleaf. A cleaf is like how they how they come up with these names, but really a drug rep told me that at some point when it came out.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Um good for them.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Marketing. Marketing killed it on that one.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah, that's actually a decent one. Some of the names are crazy.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Good job, marketing department.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

So they were looking at facial acne and trunk acne, acne on the body versus controlled subjects who weren't getting the treatment. And so looking at just the face, when they had a observer, so this would be usually like a doctor involved in the study who doesn't know whether you've done the treatment or just the vehicle, um, they look at the person and determine, okay, what percent of improvement has there been? And so in the control group, there was 19 and 25% improvement. Remember, there's two studies. So one of the studies was 19%, the other one was 25%. Um and then in the treatment group, it was 29% versus 42. So those are not that big of differences, right? Right. 19 and 25 in the vehicle, 29 and 42 in the treatment. So these people who just did the vehicle and basic cleansing their skin had a significant amount of improvement. So anyway, I just thought that was interesting to highlight that those numbers are close. And again, that is the case with a lot of studies where you're using um, you know, you're comparing to like this control group. Um, so the other studies that they did looked at um using sunscreen with topical chemotherapy cream, which I think we've maybe talked about before, um, for AKs, precancers.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Uh-huh. I remember talking about that. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

So in the control group, they just use sunscreen. And then the active group, they use sunscreen and the fluoruricyl. And in the controls, they had 24% reduction in AKs versus 73% in the treatment group. Obviously, 73% is better. Yeah. But 24% is not nothing.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Just by using sunscreen diligently. And I think that's the other thing that people have to realize with this is that when you're in a study, you're way more likely to be good at the routine you're given.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Right. Because you've been given a job.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

You and you've been coached about like how to do it, you know, how long to maybe clean your face, how much product to maybe put on. Often they have to keep journals. So they're definitely washing their face twice a day, using the sunscreen in the morning. So it's just that diligence may be playing a huge role there. But also with some of these conditions, acne, for example, the skin barrier, it really matters that that's healthy and hydrated. And so, you know, just taking the time to do that can improve your acne even without a treatment. So similar findings with melasma and sunscreen. And by the way, melasma is like often a very hard to treat condition. And it, I mean, people really, really struggle with it. And it can be like very detrimental to people's mental health.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

And, you know, in the studies that these guys um discovered, they were just cleansing twice a day and using sunscreen. Um, and then the treatment group had something called hydroquinone, which is a prescription topical, and it was 66% improvement in the control group.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Wow. Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

95% in the treatment group, but I mean 66% that is a lot. So without going into the numbers, the same was true of rosacea in the control group that just use moisturizer and sunscreen. Um, also in the post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation group, just moisturizer, cleansing, and sunscreen. So yeah, basic care goes a long way.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah, that's the takeaway is that you can get good results and possibly even the results you're after by just doing basic care, which is cleansing twice a day, moisturizing, and wearing sunscreen. Okay. It's almost as if you dermatologists have been preaching that forever. Now you got the data to back it up.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Yeah.

unknown 24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

I think it's a I think it's definitely useful information. But again, uh it also people, you know, they want the fast fix.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yeah. They fall off the usage I neglected doing this stuff for most of my life, and now you're telling me I just have to start doing that stuff and I'll start to see improvement.

unknown 24:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

No, no, no. Give me something now.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Right. Or you get bored and you don't want to use that anymore, and you change products, or you want to add something in the mix that causes a problem. I mean, yeah, it's just it's never ending.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, you don't have that problem because I never did much of anything. So I'm consistently doing virtually nothing. There you go. That's another way to do it. Just uh don't do much.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah. And then the other study that you or other article you sent me was about uh yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

I was very busy. Oh, yeah. All kinds of good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Very diligent little worker this week while I was gone.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

I sent you something that caught my eye because it was interesting about AI. And obviously it's not like just, hey, AI is being used in skincare, because of course it is. AI is in everything now. That's not the interesting part. Tell me why this is actually kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah. So what it was talking about was that um L'Oreal has used AI to try to repurpose their ingredients in their skincare products to be used in hair care products.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

So, and I don't, I don't obviously know that what are these prompts that you tight. I mean, how they got there, but essentially they used AI to discover that putting collagen, which is in a lot of the L'Oreal uh facial products, which again acts as just like a moisturizer, people, doesn't help your collagen. We've talked about that before too. Um, but putting that in the shampoo uh apparently improves hair fullness. Um so uh yeah, fullness and lift. And so I guess they're you know mining via AI what they can use in other, you know, particularly in they're looking for things to to add to their hair care range, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Um so I'm sure other, I mean, I'm sure other companies are doing this uh too. Um and I'm sure more products will come about this. My question is like, do we need, I mean, obviously if it's an advance, you know, great. But is this just gonna going to contribute to more and more products that like the consumer really doesn't need?

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Oh. Oh, I'm sure it's going to be mostly that, and then maybe some of the former actually products you need. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Or or if it's like a life-changing thing, great. But it's just like some little tweak. I mean, I don't know. How different is the shampoo? I mean, I just I I have my doubts.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

But that's not how the world works. They will market it as the newest, latest, volumizing. Yeah, and then people will fall for it and they'll make a million dollars. And by a million, I mean hundreds of millions. Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

I you know.

unknown 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

This wasn't, I don't know how I got to this. You sent me that article, and then I also somehow stumbled upon this category of products too, which kind of goes along with this whole like something you don't need. Functional toothpaste.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

What? Yeah. So Oh, because they're cashing in on the functional medicine trend?

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Well, yes, I I mean, I guess, but like also functional foods and like these are things where they just try to um add, yes, I guess, uh ingredients that are more in that functional wellness space. So this toothpaste um is supposed to, you know, have it is there's like a morning one and an evening one. It's supposed to optimize like your circadian health. No. Because the night ones have like magnesium in them.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

And then the morning one has like B12. I don't know. The whole thing is crazy. I mean, I guess my question, I I I have a lot of questions about this. Like, how much are you actually absorbing of this? Uh, how can that be controlled? And I've actually I've actually had two patients now with really hard to control acne.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

That I have tested their B12 levels because of conversations that we've had that then started to make me suspicious. Because B12, if it is extremely high, can cause acne. And I've had two patients now, one that was doing a lot of the Celsius drinks.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Um, so there's all these drinks now that the teens, you know, or anyone is ingesting that have all these extra things in it. And so I think we have to like start wondering if you're taking all these supplements and you're doing all these functional foods and drinks that have all these additional, you know, minerals and nutrients, you know, what what kind of accumulation are you getting and what problems are you gonna have?

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yeah, because those are all things that are typically good for you and your body needs, but then when you're just doing them in, you know, insane amounts because it just happens to be in a drink that you grabbed while you were thirsty.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah. Your levels are gonna go off the charts for all kinds of stuff, and then your body will react with, in this case, acne. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Sweet. Well, there you go, people. Read the labels. Understand what's in it.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

So try to understand what's in it. And if you don't understand, ask a professional.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Right. And the B12 are the functional toothpaste and just Yeah, that seems like a stretch.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Like we've pretty much mastered toothpaste.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Like, I don't think we have.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Good mental.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

I mean, I think there's like a whole market of where there's a whole white space, I think, that in in the toothpaste world that is like looking to get exploited, according to this article.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Aaron Powell Oh, no, no, no. I'm just saying, like, as a species, we've got good toothpaste out there. Oh. We're good. We've mastered it. Like we're I see what you're saying. Yeah. Like there's no reason to start adding protein paste to your teeth or whatever that you're like.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

I think you just created a new product. I don't know about protein toothpaste.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

I don't know. Yeah. I'm just saying that's what they seem to add to everything now.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Creatine toothpaste.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah. So, you know, not needed. So all right. Well what else we got? I think that's about it. I think that sums up I think what caught our attention this week. Uh since we're cranking these out on a weekly basis, that's the best we can do.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Is what happened that week and try to stay topical. Let's get into a couple of listener questions. And number one today is are we sure that red light is okay and not causing melanoma? And I think this question comes from someone traumatized by having melanoma. Is that what they're saying here?

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Or is that are they Yeah, I think they're saying that they were traumatized by having melanoma. Right. And they want to be sure that their red light is okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Okay. Sorry, listener, if I messed up your question. But here's your answer.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

Yeah. So the answer is that I don't think that there is a problem with the data that we have. Um, that should give you concern about increased melanoma risk. I mean, to be honest, there's not a lot of data out there.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Yeah, these red light products just came out of nowhere, it seems. Yeah. It's like all of a sudden, red light is everywhere. Buy this device, sit in this bed, go get this thing, put it on this part of your body, now put it everywhere. There's people shoving red light onto every inch of their skin. But okay. So you're saying not a lot of data right now on these things, but what we do know what we do know seems like it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Um there was um there have been some studies primarily on like cell lines from animals related to certain malignancies that were reassuring essentially that red light at, you know, kind of normal power would be fine, did not demonstrate any problems, did not seem to increase activity of any malignant cells. Um there was a study, again, this was also on a like a melanoma cell line. So there was a study with red light that was like very, very high power.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Um higher than you would typically use.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Yeah, higher than you're gonna get, like in a cons, you know, a device that a consumer is gonna use with some possible effect on tumor growth. So I think there were there have also been studies, though, that showed that um there was no increase in melanoma risk in healthy tissue. So I think we could feel fairly good about the fact that it's not going to, red light is not going to induce a melanoma in normal skin, right? Based on the information we have. Okay. I would probably out of an abundance of caution, since there was that one study I mentioned where melanoma at high power red light, melanoma cell lines did show some increased activity. I probably wouldn't treat a site where I had melanoma with the red light.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Just like out of an abundance of even though the data that suggests there could be a problem isn't very good, or it's at such an insane level that you're not gonna achieve that at home anyways. But just probably not. You want to feel better about it? Yeah. Skip putting light on that part. I mean, we have red light stuff all the time. You use it.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yeah, I use it, and I still will use my red light face mask. I mean, my melanoma is on my leg. I'm not gonna wrap my leg in my mask or expose that. Um, but actually some of the studies actually show benefit um to um to um tumor cells by like helping them um making them less proliferative, for example. So I don't really want to like get too much into that part because I think the question is, is it is it harmful? And I think, again, no to healthy tissue. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Don't expose your melanoma excision site to it.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Okay. Well, um, yeah. There you go. Hope that helps. Give you a uh better guide to making your decision on choosing your red light. Uh let's move on to the next question. Uh this one, and I'll just read it as it was typed. All my usual skincare products, or something else, keeps turning my face bright red. A dermatologist ruled out lupus and rosacea. Even strangers expressed concern about my quote, sunburn. I switched to recommended gentle cleansers and still red. Tried redness reducing products, still red. It's my entire face all the way to my hairline, which is what made me think it's a product I'm using. I miss my old skin. Any suggestions? Yeah, that's tough.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

I mean, they did all the things you probably would have done too, right? Rule out.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Well, yeah, I just there's other things that you would want to rule out too. Um, and I don't know how they ruled these things out. Um, like did they do a biopsy, for example? And you know, knowing the results of that couldn't be, you know, helpful and lead you down certain paths. Um, I mean, the person says that they think it could be a product they're using, and that's that's definitely a possibility. Um, but it doesn't matter if you switch. So the thing is that you can use a product, you know, with very certain ingredients for many, many years and never have a problem, and then like all of a sudden you react to it.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

So the switching doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Stupid body.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Stupid body and immune system changing.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Um so that's a tough thing. And then also like just because you switch, it doesn't mean that you didn't switch to something else that you're sensitive to, or you know, even if you kind of like take the time to look and compare two products and be sure there's no ingredient that looks the same. Sometimes companies use different names for different ingredients.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

So it's very hard to keep track all that out of what you've already ruled out.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Yeah. So there's certain brands that dermatologists um like to recommend that are sort of made in the space with these, you know, contact allergies, what we're talking about in mind. Um, the most, you know, readily available one is something like vanna cream. Um, and there's another one called, I think it's called Clure, C L E U R E. Um, and then there's a line called vetted, uh, which is a dermatologist-created uh line with minimal allergens in it. Um, but again, still that's not 100% that you won't be something and allergic to something in one of those. And how we look for this is with something called patch testing, where we um test ingredients that are in our personal care products.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Um, and that's really kind of the best way to try to figure, to figure this out so that you can know what to avoid.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

And derms do this, dermatologists or allergists.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Both specialties can do this.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Um generally, dermatologists do more advanced testing in this area. So um there's like a simple test called the true test, where they test, I think it's like 18 to 20 allergens. And then there's really aggressive testing, which is what most um dermatologists who are trained to do this will do, where it's like 80 to 100 um allergens are tested for. Um, the test is done the same no matter what you do. So, and it's kind of a pain in the butt because you basically have to get these patches taped to your back. Um, we usually do that on a Monday, take the patches off on a Wednesday, do the reading on a Friday, and the whole time you can't get your back wet. So if you're gonna get it done, it's kind of like get all the information.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

With the more aggressive testing. Um, so that could be worthwhile for this person. Um, there's also other things besides lupus and rosacea that can make your face red. So um uh again, without kind of like seeing it, knowing what was done, biopsy results, hard to say, but sometimes things like sebreat dermatitis um could make a face red. Um an environmental contact allergen sometimes can make face red. So you could actually get evaluation by a regular allergist for environmental allergies, see if that's related.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Your fabric on your bed. Yeah, so that's really more like patch testing.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

But yeah, uh all of these things. But there's environmental, um, like if you're outside um and you know you have something that you're sensitive to and it it hits your face, like the that can sometimes cause you to have stepping outside in Arizona in the summer.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

It's like an oven. It's like pointing a hairdryer at your face.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

On full blast. That'll turn you red.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Yeah. So sun damage, I mean, I will sometimes have people who like it's hard to tell. Is that rosacea or is it sun damage? You know, we're starting to get pre-cancers, early things like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

So they neglect to tell you that they just got back from like, you know, the Bahamas.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Right. So there's, I mean, there's just I don't know, those are just all I can think of. I know there's more things that I'm not coming up with off the top of my head. Um, but uh yeah. But I think the question is really about is could it be a product? And that's kind of my thoughts on how you would go further to look about to look into that. Oh, I guess another thing that might be helpful um is that um even if it is a product that you're coming into contact with, like let's say it's your lotion, people will think like, oh, I just didn't use it for a day or two. If that was it, I should be fine. Is that what you'd think? Like if it if it was like, let's say you were allergic to like your lotion or a face wash, how long would you think it would take for you to stop using it for the rash to go away?

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Oh wait, uh if I determined that a product I have that I was using was causing a reaction like face redness, I would stop using it.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Right. But I mean I'm saying like if you were suspicious of a product, how long would you think it would take too much?

SPEAKER_01 40:36

It wasn't determined that it was. Right. You're trying to figure out. Yeah, I would probably be for like a day or two, but I guess you're probably about to say no.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Six weeks.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah, you okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

It could take up to six weeks of not using it. So again, where it gets really hard to figure this out on your own.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah. So you've got to set aside a year to rule out all of your products, six weeks at a time for each one. Yeah. Okay, there you go, people. You've got a project. You just want to do this at home, DIY your own allergen test. Uh, there you go. Pick a product, stop using it for six weeks, then pick another one. Oh God. All right, well, or you just go to your doctor and subject yourself to patch testing. Patch testing. That sounds fun. Okay. One final question. This will be a quick one because this makes me this is kind of funny because people I like when they just are like trying to get personal details. This one wants to know what was your skincare routine when you were a kid, when you were a teenager?

SPEAKER_02 41:35

I have a terrible memory. Let me just first of all say that. But you know, I didn't really have like acne like much acne, I would say. I uh so some things I do remember um would be thinking of.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Stridex and St. Ives.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

No, I actually don't now I did use that St. Ives scrub.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Right. Because that was the we grew up and I I was a kid, dude, and I didn't know I didn't know skincare. I didn't know anything. I didn't I knew And you knew that? Yeah, and I had heard of those products. Okay. So maybe probably because the advertising campaigns on the shows that we watched as kids.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

But anyways. I don't remember ever using Stridex, but I did use the St. Ives some, main mainly because like I liked the smell, I think.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Yeah. Um I'm sure that was a huge part of their popularity.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Was it seabreeze? There was like this astringent. So an astringent is something that just like dries out your skin.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Um that was the extent of our acne knowledge at the time. Right. You were oily, get dry.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

And I think they were advertised in like, you know, these magazines we looked at, like Teen Beat or like Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Did you have a subscription to Teen Beat?

SPEAKER_02 42:45

I don't remember if I had a subscription, but I know I laid eyes on Teen Beat some.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Got it, okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

And I don't know, whatever else. I can't think of other ones, but I know there were other magazines too. But anyway.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Sure. I'm sure that was yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

So I know I used to.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

By the way, magazines were things that were made of paper that we used to go and get at the newsstand or the uh bookstore. And uh they came out like once a week, once every two weeks. I mean, maybe once a month. Once a month. Once a month is probably more likely. Yeah. So they were like they were like books or more periodical.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Aaron Ross Powell, you know, there's actually like a resurgence of this to some degree.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Magazines coming back?

SPEAKER_02 43:25

I mean, I don't know about in the adult space, but there are definitely some magazines targeting teens and tweens coming back, like trying to become relevant at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Paper form? Yeah. Everything old is new again.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Yeah. So I mean I think the argument is like you know, to to try to like have more wholesome, interactive.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Are there any like underground zines coming out? Remember those? Remember you'd get your hands on one of those, or some kid would hand you a copy. I don't know what that is. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

What the hell is an underground zine?

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Aaron Ross Powell Those were like not those were like radical, often political, you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

You were looking at political zines when you were in 19.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Yeah, sure. I mean occasionally one would come across my path. All right. That's we don't need to go into that. That's okay. Go on. All right. Your skincare routine.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

I do love a good tangent, but which I have no idea why I was using because that stuff should be outlawed because all it's doing is just like destroying your skin. Same with the sane ives. I mean, like, that's just a physical, you know, exfoliant with those like harsh beads. Like these are things that we now know are not ideal.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Sandpaper and liquid.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

Right. Um I did love to steal my grandmother's ponds cold cream.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

Oh. Whenever I was hanging out of her house. What is that? I've heard of that. Or I remember seeing a little jar of that on like every old person's dresser.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Yeah. Just I think hers was just a moisturizer. I don't know if there were other like nice thick lotions. Yeah, thick lotions.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

The Pons brand.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah. Yeah. Um, what else? I do remember maybe this was like the start of my dermatology interests. Interest. And I feel like I maybe read this in a magazine. God, what was the other magazine? 17. That was another one. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Oh, I lost that. All the skincare products had to probably fight to advertise in that one.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Yeah, probably. And there must have been some kind of article about do-it-yourself stuff or something, because I remember making a mask somehow out of crushed up um aspirin. So basically making a salicylic treatment for my face, which, you know, salicylic acid is an acne treatment.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

So somebody was like, hey, that ingredient's in aspirin.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Let's just I guess.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

So I remember like crushing this up and crushing these pills up.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

And then your mom and dad being like, Who the hell took all the aspirin?

SPEAKER_02 45:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

I have a headache, damn it.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Where's Yeah. And then you walk in and your face is pasty white, coated with some kind of And I don't remember what it mixed with or anything, but I do remember crushing that for some reason. And again, I didn't even really have acne, so I'm not really sure what was going on with that. But you know, it sounded cool.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

You were influenced.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

I was 17 magazine influenced.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

That's right. You were influenced by a magazine. Oh, everybody has a story about that, I'm sure. So all right. Well, fun question. Anything else uh you can remember doing? Not that any of those things were routines. Your skincare routine was just like what even knows?

SPEAKER_02 46:27

We didn't like talk about skincare routines.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Gen X kids didn't have skincare routines.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

I mean, I didn't yeah. I mean, I cared about my hair. I needed my bangs to be really large.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Well, yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

So That was a thing. There were a lot of hairsprays involved.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Yeah. Uh surely some of that landed on your skin.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Must have.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

That was your routine.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

I don't remember much about that.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

You created a block, a barrier with AquaNet.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

I don't even know that we had AquaNet.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

I'm just throwing that out because that was the big one.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

I know.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

That was the one that put that huge hole in our ozone for so long, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Really?

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Well, I think it was just that whole class of hairspray canisters. And then they, you know, got rid of the uh ozone killing products in there, the uh fluorocarbons. Fluorocarbons. Some whatever, yeah. And then the ozone repaired itself. So we're good now. Anyways. There you go. We'll end on that note. Morning. All right. Um we're done here. Uh send us more questions. You know, we'll keep them keep it coming. It's a fun part. Um and we'll wrap here. Thanks for listening. Best podcast ever. See you next time.