{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.208,"endTime":2.833,"body":"if you have an identity of being tough,"},{"startTime":2.833,"endTime":4.125,"body":"the question is really,"},{"startTime":4.125,"endTime":5.75,"body":"what are you gaining from it?"},{"startTime":5.75,"endTime":9.0,"body":"Oh, feel good, it helps you center, maybe focus,"},{"startTime":9.0,"endTime":11.0,"body":"maybe achieve certain things."},{"startTime":11.791,"endTime":14.25,"body":"But what you might be avoiding is"},{"startTime":14.25,"endTime":16.166,"body":"a level of vulnerability."},{"startTime":16.708,"endTime":18.291,"body":"We get stuck in who we are,"},{"startTime":19.791,"endTime":21.166,"body":"ideas about who we are."},{"startTime":21.166,"endTime":23.333,"body":"And often it's unhelpful."},{"startTime":23.333,"endTime":24.916,"body":"So it is a fluid concept."},{"startTime":24.916,"endTime":26.666,"body":"And other parts of our experience"},{"startTime":26.666,"endTime":28.375,"body":"need to be integrated into"},{"startTime":29.041,"endTime":30.916,"body":"usually makes for a richer life."},{"startTime":30.916,"endTime":33.791,"body":"The identity is a little bit story,"},{"startTime":33.791,"endTime":35.333,"body":"scripts and stories"},{"startTime":35.333,"endTime":36.625,"body":"we tell about ourselves."},{"startTime":36.625,"endTime":39.291,"body":"And it's very important to keep it open"},{"startTime":39.291,"endTime":42.0,"body":"so that we can remain in touch with"},{"startTime":42.0,"endTime":42.625,"body":"the world."},{"startTime":45.75,"endTime":46.75,"body":"When we watch soccer,"},{"startTime":46.75,"endTime":49.875,"body":"something happens that has nothing to do with soccer"},{"startTime":49.875,"endTime":51.583,"body":"and everything to do with it."},{"startTime":51.583,"endTime":53.333,"body":"Welcome to the Golden Ball"},{"startTime":53.333,"endTime":53.666,"body":"where"},{"startTime":53.666,"endTime":55.791,"body":"depth psychology and the beautiful game"},{"startTime":55.791,"endTime":57.583,"body":"help us play life better."},{"startTime":57.583,"endTime":59.0,"body":"My name is John O' Brien,"},{"startTime":59.0,"endTime":60.375,"body":"former World cup soccer player"},{"startTime":60.375,"endTime":61.75,"body":"and sports psychologist."},{"startTime":62.125,"endTime":64.083,"body":"Hi, my name is Machiel Klerk."},{"startTime":64.083,"endTime":65.375,"body":"I am a psychotherapist,"},{"startTime":65.375,"endTime":68.166,"body":"lover of the game and like"},{"startTime":68.166,"endTime":69.583,"body":"to talk about depth psychology."},{"startTime":69.958,"endTime":72.375,"body":"Hello, my name is Akke-Jeanne Klerk."},{"startTime":72.375,"endTime":74.833,"body":"I am a personal development coach,"},{"startTime":74.833,"endTime":76.708,"body":"lover of Jungian psychology"},{"startTime":76.708,"endTime":77.791,"body":"as well as soccer."},{"startTime":77.958,"endTime":81.416,"body":"Today the topic is Identity."},{"startTime":82.375,"endTime":84.0,"body":"And maybe before we start"},{"startTime":84.0,"endTime":85.666,"body":"thinking about identity."},{"startTime":85.666,"endTime":86.708,"body":"Akka-Jeanne,"},{"startTime":86.708,"endTime":89.75,"body":"what is identity according to you?"},{"startTime":91.416,"endTime":94.083,"body":"I think identity is the answer"},{"startTime":94.083,"endTime":96.125,"body":"to the question who am I?"},{"startTime":98.125,"endTime":100.458,"body":"And if you ask someone who are you?"},{"startTime":100.458,"endTime":102.875,"body":"What for what follows next is a story"},{"startTime":102.875,"endTime":105.208,"body":"or maybe a collection of stories."},{"startTime":106.166,"endTime":108.416,"body":"And this collection of stories"},{"startTime":109.208,"endTime":112.083,"body":"shapes how we experience the world"},{"startTime":112.083,"endTime":113.916,"body":"and what we perceive."},{"startTime":115.583,"endTime":119.375,"body":"And usually we think of it as something permanent,"},{"startTime":119.375,"endTime":122.208,"body":"something fixed inside of us"},{"startTime":122.208,"endTime":126.041,"body":"and we all have our own identities."},{"startTime":126.041,"endTime":128.833,"body":"And I think as a psychologist"},{"startTime":128.833,"endTime":131.416,"body":"it's really a psychological construct"},{"startTime":131.958,"endTime":134.791,"body":"more than something fixed."},{"startTime":135.666,"endTime":137.583,"body":"But we can say much more about that."},{"startTime":138.333,"endTime":140.791,"body":"John, how would you define identity?"},{"startTime":142.208,"endTime":143.5,"body":"Well, I love what you said."},{"startTime":143.5,"endTime":146.041,"body":"I feel like in my work with athletes,"},{"startTime":147.75,"endTime":149.333,"body":"a lot of times it is about"},{"startTime":150.875,"endTime":152.625,"body":"helping them kind of see things"},{"startTime":152.625,"endTime":153.75,"body":"a little more fluidly."},{"startTime":153.75,"endTime":154.0,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":154.0,"endTime":155.458,"body":"We get stuck in who we are,"},{"startTime":156.958,"endTime":158.333,"body":"ideas about who we are."},{"startTime":158.333,"endTime":160.5,"body":"And often it's unhelpful."},{"startTime":161.541,"endTime":163.125,"body":"So it is a fluid concept."},{"startTime":163.583,"endTime":165.333,"body":"And other parts of our experience"},{"startTime":165.333,"endTime":167.041,"body":"need to be integrated into"},{"startTime":167.708,"endTime":169.583,"body":"usually makes for a richer life."},{"startTime":171.208,"endTime":173.291,"body":"And so that's like part of my work"},{"startTime":173.291,"endTime":174.708,"body":"I see is helping people."},{"startTime":175.458,"endTime":176.166,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":176.166,"endTime":178.333,"body":"Learn to know other parts of themselves"},{"startTime":178.333,"endTime":180.166,"body":"or different parts of themselves"},{"startTime":180.166,"endTime":181.75,"body":"that they didn't know existed."},{"startTime":181.75,"endTime":183.125,"body":"Such a great thing about"},{"startTime":183.125,"endTime":185.916,"body":"depth psychology and symbol work."},{"startTime":188.583,"endTime":189.458,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":189.458,"endTime":192.666,"body":"And identity is indeed"},{"startTime":192.666,"endTime":194.791,"body":"a fluid phenomenon."},{"startTime":194.791,"endTime":197.75,"body":"And in my vision it lives"},{"startTime":197.75,"endTime":199.208,"body":"on top of character."},{"startTime":199.208,"endTime":200.5,"body":"So you have a character."},{"startTime":200.5,"endTime":202.791,"body":"You can be an assertive person"},{"startTime":202.791,"endTime":204.25,"body":"or an aggressive person."},{"startTime":204.25,"endTime":206.416,"body":"And then your identity might be"},{"startTime":206.416,"endTime":209.875,"body":"like I'm a fighter."},{"startTime":211.0,"endTime":214.625,"body":"And if you then"},{"startTime":214.625,"endTime":217.458,"body":"that is something you tell yourself."},{"startTime":218.083,"endTime":220.166,"body":"The assertiveness and aggressiveness"},{"startTime":220.166,"endTime":221.458,"body":"can be many things"},{"startTime":221.458,"endTime":223.375,"body":"besides just being a fighter."},{"startTime":223.958,"endTime":227.083,"body":"So the identity is a little bit story,"},{"startTime":227.083,"endTime":228.625,"body":"scripts and stories"},{"startTime":228.625,"endTime":230.166,"body":"we tell about ourselves."},{"startTime":230.791,"endTime":233.291,"body":"And it's very important to keep it open"},{"startTime":233.291,"endTime":236.0,"body":"so that we can remain in touch with"},{"startTime":236.0,"endTime":236.625,"body":"the world."},{"startTime":238.416,"endTime":238.75,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":238.75,"endTime":239.583,"body":"And I agree."},{"startTime":239.583,"endTime":241.166,"body":"I hear you say stories,"},{"startTime":241.166,"endTime":242.916,"body":"and we tell ourselves stories"},{"startTime":242.916,"endTime":244.0,"body":"about who we are."},{"startTime":244.708,"endTime":246.833,"body":"But of course, some of those stories"},{"startTime":246.833,"endTime":248.083,"body":"we might have chosen"},{"startTime":248.083,"endTime":249.833,"body":"or selected consciously."},{"startTime":249.833,"endTime":251.708,"body":"But part of the stories that we tell"},{"startTime":251.708,"endTime":255.291,"body":"ourselves are really about"},{"startTime":255.291,"endTime":257.375,"body":"unconscious scripts, something that"},{"startTime":257.375,"endTime":259.708,"body":"originates in the family of origin."},{"startTime":260.5,"endTime":262.0,"body":"If I felt like I had"},{"startTime":262.0,"endTime":265.375,"body":"little power and I wanted to make sure"},{"startTime":265.375,"endTime":266.958,"body":"that I belong, I gave in."},{"startTime":267.833,"endTime":270.625,"body":"And maybe this giving in or this compliance,"},{"startTime":270.625,"endTime":273.541,"body":"this nicety or being nice"},{"startTime":274.166,"endTime":276.791,"body":"is something that I identify with,"},{"startTime":276.791,"endTime":277.875,"body":"while it's really an unconscious script"},{"startTime":279.125,"endTime":280.416,"body":"running from childhood."},{"startTime":280.541,"endTime":283.708,"body":"Great. I really love what narrative therapy"},{"startTime":283.708,"endTime":284.75,"body":"brings into this."},{"startTime":284.75,"endTime":286.166,"body":"They talk about kind of"},{"startTime":286.166,"endTime":288.875,"body":"dominant stories that we have kind of one"},{"startTime":288.875,"endTime":290.5,"body":"privileged story."},{"startTime":290.5,"endTime":291.916,"body":"And often it is like you say,"},{"startTime":291.916,"endTime":293.291,"body":"kind of like what other people"},{"startTime":293.291,"endTime":294.666,"body":"have said about you."},{"startTime":294.666,"endTime":295.666,"body":"It can kind of come in"},{"startTime":295.666,"endTime":296.75,"body":"in different ways, but that that"},{"startTime":296.75,"endTime":298.458,"body":"kind of dominate our perception."},{"startTime":298.458,"endTime":299.708,"body":"And it affects."},{"startTime":299.708,"endTime":300.0,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":300.0,"endTime":301.0,"body":"This is the important part."},{"startTime":301.0,"endTime":302.625,"body":"It affects how we see things"},{"startTime":302.625,"endTime":303.583,"body":"and how we act."},{"startTime":304.375,"endTime":304.708,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":304.708,"endTime":307.708,"body":"Like this belief or this idea has"},{"startTime":307.708,"endTime":308.291,"body":"an impact."},{"startTime":308.916,"endTime":311.0,"body":"And often we even protect"},{"startTime":311.0,"endTime":312.5,"body":"kind of how we see."},{"startTime":312.5,"endTime":313.375,"body":"Oh, this is my identity."},{"startTime":313.375,"endTime":314.25,"body":"I'm going to protect it."},{"startTime":314.25,"endTime":315.5,"body":"I'm going to refuse information"},{"startTime":316.291,"endTime":318.541,"body":"that doesn't kind of fit in with this."},{"startTime":319.333,"endTime":320.75,"body":"So it's really kind of."},{"startTime":320.75,"endTime":322.875,"body":"It's a fascinating thing, identity."},{"startTime":322.875,"endTime":324.458,"body":"It's a necessary thing."},{"startTime":325.208,"endTime":327.083,"body":"We are social animals, like,"},{"startTime":327.958,"endTime":329.833,"body":"this thing has come up where we have."},{"startTime":329.833,"endTime":332.25,"body":"We've developed some idea about ourselves,"},{"startTime":332.791,"endTime":333.708,"body":"and that's going to just"},{"startTime":333.708,"endTime":336.208,"body":"be part of our lives socially."},{"startTime":337.583,"endTime":340.041,"body":"But it's very fascinating and tricky."},{"startTime":340.041,"endTime":341.333,"body":"Tricky for a lot of people."},{"startTime":343.083,"endTime":344.541,"body":"Where have you seen it, John,"},{"startTime":344.541,"endTime":347.25,"body":"in top athletes soccer,"},{"startTime":347.25,"endTime":349.083,"body":"that identity is helpful."},{"startTime":351.166,"endTime":351.833,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":351.833,"endTime":352.916,"body":"Identity helpful."},{"startTime":355.5,"endTime":357.041,"body":"I think it's an approach"},{"startTime":357.041,"endTime":358.958,"body":"to identity that would be helpful."},{"startTime":358.958,"endTime":360.791,"body":"Not identity in and of itself."},{"startTime":361.833,"endTime":362.25,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":364.5,"endTime":366.208,"body":"I think of people who are kind"},{"startTime":366.208,"endTime":367.5,"body":"of comfortable with themselves."},{"startTime":367.5,"endTime":367.791,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":367.791,"endTime":368.791,"body":"I'm this kind of person."},{"startTime":369.416,"endTime":370.791,"body":"This is kind of what I like."},{"startTime":371.958,"endTime":372.875,"body":"Those things are really"},{"startTime":372.875,"endTime":374.25,"body":"helpful with athletes."},{"startTime":374.875,"endTime":376.708,"body":"Often they're younger people."},{"startTime":376.708,"endTime":377.625,"body":"They're trying to make"},{"startTime":377.625,"endTime":378.458,"body":"their way in the world."},{"startTime":378.458,"endTime":378.708,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":378.708,"endTime":380.0,"body":"Some of this is developmental."},{"startTime":380.0,"endTime":382.041,"body":"We can think of adolescence"},{"startTime":382.041,"endTime":383.708,"body":"as a time when you're really,"},{"startTime":383.708,"endTime":385.291,"body":"who am I In relation to others?"},{"startTime":385.291,"endTime":385.833,"body":"Who am I?"},{"startTime":385.833,"endTime":388.166,"body":"That's really a dominant question."},{"startTime":390.083,"endTime":392.166,"body":"So people can have some comfort, some"},{"startTime":392.166,"endTime":394.0,"body":"knowing who they are and some comfort"},{"startTime":394.0,"endTime":397.291,"body":"with some kind of core ways they act."},{"startTime":397.291,"endTime":398.625,"body":"And then also not be too"},{"startTime":398.625,"endTime":399.833,"body":"defensive around it."},{"startTime":399.833,"endTime":400.125,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":400.125,"endTime":401.708,"body":"You start getting in the public realm"},{"startTime":401.708,"endTime":404.416,"body":"for athletes, and then it becomes"},{"startTime":404.416,"endTime":406.958,"body":"about protection and boundaries."},{"startTime":406.958,"endTime":408.5,"body":"And so that could be kind of a tricky"},{"startTime":408.5,"endTime":409.416,"body":"thing to navigate."},{"startTime":409.416,"endTime":411.833,"body":"Often I find people"},{"startTime":411.833,"endTime":414.25,"body":"who are really serious in their profession,"},{"startTime":414.25,"endTime":416.916,"body":"it's hard for them really to explore"},{"startTime":416.916,"endTime":419.291,"body":"themselves in a lot of different ways."},{"startTime":420.333,"endTime":422.666,"body":"I think, the athlete culture has gotten"},{"startTime":422.666,"endTime":424.75,"body":"better about, like, hey, you can"},{"startTime":424.75,"endTime":427.75,"body":"be someone outside of soccer"},{"startTime":427.75,"endTime":430.25,"body":"that's allowed more than it used to be,"},{"startTime":430.25,"endTime":432.0,"body":"but it's still pretty restrictive."},{"startTime":434.333,"endTime":435.833,"body":"So those are just some thoughts"},{"startTime":435.833,"endTime":439.708,"body":"yeah, on what I see in sports."},{"startTime":439.708,"endTime":441.125,"body":"How's that land for you too,"},{"startTime":441.875,"endTime":444.5,"body":"Yeah, when I hear you, it’s really"},{"startTime":444.5,"endTime":445.791,"body":"when we have an identity,"},{"startTime":445.791,"endTime":447.208,"body":"we want to protect it,"},{"startTime":447.208,"endTime":449.541,"body":"we start behaving accordingly."},{"startTime":450.5,"endTime":452.75,"body":"Of course, our social surroundings"},{"startTime":453.958,"endTime":457.625,"body":"like it when we are consistent in the way"},{"startTime":457.625,"endTime":461.083,"body":"that we show up, we protect it."},{"startTime":462.041,"endTime":464.666,"body":"And a question that I often have"},{"startTime":464.666,"endTime":466.375,"body":"in coaching is"},{"startTime":466.375,"endTime":468.541,"body":"what do you gain from it"},{"startTime":468.541,"endTime":471.0,"body":"and what are you avoiding?"},{"startTime":471.0,"endTime":472.291,"body":"So with an identity,"},{"startTime":472.291,"endTime":474.916,"body":"if you have an identity of being tough,"},{"startTime":474.916,"endTime":476.208,"body":"the question is really,"},{"startTime":476.208,"endTime":477.833,"body":"what are you gaining from it?"},{"startTime":477.833,"endTime":481.083,"body":"Oh, feel good, it helps you center, maybe focus,"},{"startTime":481.083,"endTime":483.083,"body":"maybe achieve certain things."},{"startTime":483.875,"endTime":486.333,"body":"But what you might be avoiding is"},{"startTime":486.333,"endTime":488.25,"body":"a level of vulnerability."},{"startTime":490.25,"endTime":494.791,"body":"And so identity often is narrow,"},{"startTime":494.791,"endTime":498.208,"body":"much narrower than the entirety."},{"startTime":498.208,"endTime":500.291,"body":"And I think that's what you're saying as well,"},{"startTime":500.291,"endTime":503.5,"body":"that narrow identity doesn't work for people,"},{"startTime":504.166,"endTime":506.625,"body":"or it works for a time, for a certain"},{"startTime":506.625,"endTime":508.708,"body":"period, and then it stops working."},{"startTime":510.708,"endTime":512.25,"body":"Yeah, Identity is one of the biggest"},{"startTime":512.25,"endTime":513.583,"body":"drivers of behavior."},{"startTime":514.5,"endTime":518.0,"body":"If people identify with their identity,"},{"startTime":519.125,"endTime":521.291,"body":"it predicts how they will behave."},{"startTime":521.291,"endTime":522.458,"body":"So if you're a fighter,"},{"startTime":522.458,"endTime":523.75,"body":"you will fight in the game."},{"startTime":523.75,"endTime":526.416,"body":"If that's what you believe about yourself,"},{"startTime":526.416,"endTime":529.0,"body":"or I'm a person who doesn't stop"},{"startTime":529.0,"endTime":530.875,"body":"till the game is over,"},{"startTime":530.875,"endTime":532.333,"body":"then you're much more likely"},{"startTime":532.333,"endTime":534.416,"body":"to fight till the last minute."},{"startTime":534.416,"endTime":536.583,"body":"So there is identity in sports"},{"startTime":536.583,"endTime":539.625,"body":"really helpful to choose"},{"startTime":539.625,"endTime":542.083,"body":"helpful elements of the identity because"},{"startTime":542.083,"endTime":544.416,"body":"they will set up your behavior."},{"startTime":545.041,"endTime":547.125,"body":"And if you're only that,"},{"startTime":547.125,"endTime":548.666,"body":"then you get that shadow element,"},{"startTime":550.583,"endTime":552.958,"body":"of the things that you leave out."},{"startTime":554.958,"endTime":556.0,"body":"Yeah, that's great."},{"startTime":556.833,"endTime":558.916,"body":"And I'd love to hear your take more"},{"startTime":558.916,"endTime":559.916,"body":"on the shadow element."},{"startTime":559.916,"endTime":561.291,"body":"If you guys could add to that"},{"startTime":562.5,"endTime":564.708,"body":"what you notice in sports and in"},{"startTime":564.708,"endTime":565.833,"body":"social settings in general."},{"startTime":565.833,"endTime":566.125,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":566.125,"endTime":567.916,"body":"There's some accommodation we do."},{"startTime":567.916,"endTime":570.416,"body":"We all adjust to our surroundings"},{"startTime":570.416,"endTime":572.125,"body":"in some ways adapt to the environment."},{"startTime":573.958,"endTime":576.583,"body":"How much of that is, hey, I'm still"},{"startTime":577.166,"endTime":579.083,"body":"connected with myself and know myself,"},{"startTime":579.083,"endTime":581.083,"body":"and I'm just adjusting to this environment"},{"startTime":581.083,"endTime":582.958,"body":"and how much of it is actually kind of"},{"startTime":582.958,"endTime":584.666,"body":"giving up parts of ourselves."},{"startTime":584.666,"endTime":586.291,"body":"I think this is where"},{"startTime":586.291,"endTime":587.625,"body":"the shadow comes in."},{"startTime":588.375,"endTime":589.583,"body":"Because you do see that in"},{"startTime":589.583,"endTime":591.291,"body":"sport cultures where it's maybe like,"},{"startTime":591.291,"endTime":592.708,"body":"hey, you have to be like this,"},{"startTime":593.5,"endTime":594.375,"body":"you have to do this."},{"startTime":594.375,"endTime":597.416,"body":"And a lot of times that's not true."},{"startTime":597.416,"endTime":597.708,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":597.708,"endTime":598.833,"body":"You have to perform well."},{"startTime":599.708,"endTime":600.5,"body":"That's why you're there"},{"startTime":600.5,"endTime":601.583,"body":"to perform well."},{"startTime":601.583,"endTime":603.166,"body":"And there's many different"},{"startTime":603.166,"endTime":604.916,"body":"ways of being an athlete."},{"startTime":606.708,"endTime":608.208,"body":"So I just wanted to get that out there."},{"startTime":608.208,"endTime":611.041,"body":"But that is a tricky thing in kind"},{"startTime":611.041,"endTime":612.541,"body":"of leaning into the environment,"},{"startTime":613.416,"endTime":615.583,"body":"adapting to what it's asking,"},{"startTime":615.583,"endTime":616.75,"body":"certain behaviors,"},{"startTime":617.333,"endTime":619.125,"body":"certain things are appreciated."},{"startTime":619.125,"endTime":619.458,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":619.458,"endTime":621.125,"body":"Toughness is appreciated,"},{"startTime":621.125,"endTime":623.125,"body":"vulnerability might not be."},{"startTime":623.416,"endTime":625.416,"body":"So how do you kind of manage that"},{"startTime":625.416,"endTime":627.0,"body":"without losing yourself"},{"startTime":627.0,"endTime":629.5,"body":"and things going into the shadow?"},{"startTime":631.208,"endTime":632.75,"body":"I think identity can"},{"startTime":632.75,"endTime":634.083,"body":"become really limiting."},{"startTime":634.708,"endTime":635.833,"body":"That's also what"},{"startTime":635.833,"endTime":637.416,"body":"you're expressing there."},{"startTime":638.708,"endTime":641.166,"body":"When we cling to a certain identity,"},{"startTime":641.166,"endTime":643.041,"body":"we're trying to protect it."},{"startTime":643.041,"endTime":643.833,"body":"And as a result"},{"startTime":643.833,"endTime":647.083,"body":"So we will reject or deny"},{"startTime":647.083,"endTime":649.458,"body":"certain experiences that don't fit"},{"startTime":649.458,"endTime":650.791,"body":"with our identity"},{"startTime":651.75,"endTime":654.083,"body":"or that threaten our identity."},{"startTime":655.833,"endTime":659.416,"body":"You know, for example, if I see myself as"},{"startTime":660.166,"endTime":662.708,"body":"nice and someone who likes harmony,"},{"startTime":662.708,"endTime":665.291,"body":"that in itself is not so problematic."},{"startTime":665.291,"endTime":667.583,"body":"But it becomes problematic"},{"startTime":667.583,"endTime":670.083,"body":"when I keep on favoring harmony"},{"startTime":670.708,"endTime":673.666,"body":"over tension or conflict."},{"startTime":674.791,"endTime":678.458,"body":"So if I find myself in a situation that"},{"startTime":678.458,"endTime":682.875,"body":"I have certain feelings about or that"},{"startTime":682.875,"endTime":686.041,"body":"I think about in a certain way and I'm"},{"startTime":686.041,"endTime":687.708,"body":"unable to express them because"},{"startTime":687.708,"endTime":689.708,"body":"I'm fearing conflict,"},{"startTime":689.708,"endTime":693.708,"body":"then my identity of being the harmonious one,"},{"startTime":693.75,"endTime":695.375,"body":"of being a nice one,"},{"startTime":695.375,"endTime":698.583,"body":"is really threatening my own authenticity"},{"startTime":698.583,"endTime":700.666,"body":"and my own self expression."},{"startTime":701.208,"endTime":704.166,"body":"Well, I hear that"},{"startTime":704.166,"endTime":706.708,"body":"once identity becomes rigid,"},{"startTime":706.708,"endTime":708.791,"body":"it becomes problematic"},{"startTime":709.375,"endTime":710.541,"body":"and it's a little bit,"},{"startTime":712.5,"endTime":715.125,"body":"you look in the mirror and you think that is"},{"startTime":715.125,"endTime":716.708,"body":"what you see is what it is."},{"startTime":717.291,"endTime":720.416,"body":"And so you believe your identity."},{"startTime":720.416,"endTime":722.625,"body":"And then if you really believe"},{"startTime":722.625,"endTime":724.083,"body":"I'm a harmonious person"},{"startTime":725.041,"endTime":732.041,"body":"and conflict is not good, then you get"},{"startTime":732.041,"endTime":734.416,"body":"in the stuckness of the identity."},{"startTime":734.416,"endTime":736.25,"body":"What you describe is already"},{"startTime":736.25,"endTime":738.5,"body":"you've come to the conclusion that oh,"},{"startTime":739.125,"endTime":741.541,"body":"I favor harmony and I find"},{"startTime":741.541,"endTime":742.75,"body":"conflict difficult."},{"startTime":743.375,"endTime":744.75,"body":"Then you're almost"},{"startTime":744.75,"endTime":746.666,"body":"already in the identity of"},{"startTime":746.666,"endTime":749.291,"body":"I'm a person who find conflict difficult."},{"startTime":749.833,"endTime":752.75,"body":"So your identity has already descended"},{"startTime":752.75,"endTime":754.625,"body":"into a more malleable space"},{"startTime":754.625,"endTime":758.5,"body":"where it becomes workable."},{"startTime":758.958,"endTime":760.041,"body":"In a jump,"},{"startTime":760.041,"endTime":762.25,"body":"what comes now to me you see it more"},{"startTime":762.25,"endTime":764.791,"body":"like with Ajax or the Dutch team."},{"startTime":766.083,"endTime":768.416,"body":"The Dutch team had as an identity"},{"startTime":769.083,"endTime":772.041,"body":"that they were, an attacking style,"},{"startTime":773.083,"endTime":774.166,"body":"the total football."},{"startTime":774.916,"endTime":776.416,"body":"That was their identity"},{"startTime":776.416,"endTime":777.916,"body":"and they were great at it."},{"startTime":777.916,"endTime":779.875,"body":"And they put it on the map and they"},{"startTime":781.291,"endTime":782.75,"body":"came really far with it."},{"startTime":783.541,"endTime":785.541,"body":"And now they're in a place where"},{"startTime":785.541,"endTime":787.625,"body":"that identity doesn't"},{"startTime":787.625,"endTime":789.875,"body":"match the players they have."},{"startTime":789.875,"endTime":792.5,"body":"They cannot play that style,"},{"startTime":793.75,"endTime":795.666,"body":"with the current players."},{"startTime":796.416,"endTime":798.833,"body":"So now the Netherlands"},{"startTime":798.833,"endTime":800.5,"body":"becomes a bit stuck in."},{"startTime":800.5,"endTime":802.666,"body":"If I believe I need to play this,"},{"startTime":803.708,"endTime":806.333,"body":"then you go home very quick because"},{"startTime":806.333,"endTime":808.916,"body":"Your team players don't allow for it."},{"startTime":811.041,"endTime":813.0,"body":"We've seen it with Ajax, too,"},{"startTime":813.0,"endTime":814.291,"body":"under Farioli."},{"startTime":814.291,"endTime":815.25,"body":"They started the coach,"},{"startTime":815.25,"endTime":817.458,"body":"they started playing a different style,"},{"startTime":817.458,"endTime":819.125,"body":"and people complained about it."},{"startTime":819.125,"endTime":821.541,"body":"It's not the Ajax DNA and identity."},{"startTime":822.75,"endTime":825.291,"body":"Well, you're rigidly in the past"},{"startTime":825.291,"endTime":826.833,"body":"and not having adapted to,"},{"startTime":828.166,"endTime":829.875,"body":"You need to shift a little bit your"},{"startTime":830.583,"endTime":834.75,"body":"your way of being your identity, to adapt."},{"startTime":835.291,"endTime":837.875,"body":"And that is what I hear"},{"startTime":837.875,"endTime":841.375,"body":"when I hear you talk on the individual level,"},{"startTime":842.041,"endTime":844.958,"body":"when identity becomes a chokehold on"},{"startTime":844.958,"endTime":846.125,"body":"creative expression."},{"startTime":846.833,"endTime":848.875,"body":"You shared earlier,"},{"startTime":848.875,"endTime":851.333,"body":"I think this week with me"},{"startTime":851.333,"endTime":853.375,"body":"when we talked, John,"},{"startTime":853.375,"endTime":856.458,"body":"about how one of the Ajax coaches"},{"startTime":857.25,"endTime":860.416,"body":"tried to infuse your American identity"},{"startTime":860.416,"endTime":864.041,"body":"or try to awaken that a little bit more"},{"startTime":864.041,"endTime":868.208,"body":"so that you had a certain part of that,"},{"startTime":868.208,"endTime":870.083,"body":"those qualities in your game."},{"startTime":872.875,"endTime":873.5,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":873.5,"endTime":875.166,"body":"I mean, identity can be a way"},{"startTime":875.166,"endTime":876.333,"body":"to think about the world."},{"startTime":876.333,"endTime":876.666,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":876.666,"endTime":879.041,"body":"What characteristics are out there"},{"startTime":879.041,"endTime":881.291,"body":"we want to be, maybe we don't have."},{"startTime":881.291,"endTime":881.625,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":881.625,"endTime":886.166,"body":"The story is that, I think it"},{"startTime":886.166,"endTime":887.916,"body":"was a second team coach at Ajax,"},{"startTime":887.916,"endTime":890.833,"body":"and he kind of criticized me."},{"startTime":890.833,"endTime":891.833,"body":"He's like, you've become."},{"startTime":892.416,"endTime":894.0,"body":"He did it in a joking way, but, like,"},{"startTime":894.0,"endTime":895.666,"body":"you've become very Dutch in your style."},{"startTime":895.666,"endTime":896.291,"body":"Where's the fight?"},{"startTime":896.291,"endTime":897.625,"body":"Where's the American fight?"},{"startTime":898.166,"endTime":899.416,"body":"Which I was laughing about,"},{"startTime":899.416,"endTime":901.125,"body":"because I feel like in other environments,"},{"startTime":901.125,"endTime":903.125,"body":"like, HR wouldn't, like,"},{"startTime":903.125,"endTime":904.833,"body":"be okay with you commenting"},{"startTime":904.875,"endTime":907.375,"body":"on your nationality, like, in that way."},{"startTime":909.458,"endTime":909.75,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":909.75,"endTime":911.791,"body":"So it was a way for him to kind of"},{"startTime":911.791,"endTime":913.458,"body":"poke at me and ask for something."},{"startTime":914.0,"endTime":915.541,"body":"Wanted me to fight a little more"},{"startTime":915.541,"endTime":916.791,"body":"and kind of bring that,"},{"startTime":916.791,"endTime":918.583,"body":"that into my game."},{"startTime":918.583,"endTime":919.875,"body":"You know where"},{"startTime":919.875,"endTime":921.125,"body":"I think I had"},{"startTime":921.125,"endTime":922.916,"body":"something I enjoyed as a soccer player"},{"startTime":922.916,"endTime":924.583,"body":"was kind of learning the Dutch way."},{"startTime":924.583,"endTime":926.625,"body":"I went over to Holland when I was 16"},{"startTime":926.625,"endTime":929.666,"body":"and was in the Ajax Academy for four years."},{"startTime":929.666,"endTime":931.166,"body":"Really two years in the youth"},{"startTime":931.166,"endTime":932.416,"body":"and two years in the reserve team,"},{"startTime":933.625,"endTime":934.75,"body":"and their way of soccer."},{"startTime":934.75,"endTime":939.208,"body":"I found just fantastic technical tactical type of soccer."},{"startTime":939.208,"endTime":942.708,"body":"So there's something in me that enjoyed that"},{"startTime":942.708,"endTime":945.25,"body":"and I did identify as a technical player,"},{"startTime":945.25,"endTime":946.583,"body":"but also as a fighter."},{"startTime":946.583,"endTime":948.25,"body":"I think those two words"},{"startTime":948.25,"endTime":951.125,"body":"would come up for me"},{"startTime":951.125,"endTime":953.166,"body":"I wonder if"},{"startTime":955.083,"endTime":956.75,"body":"identity and achievement."},{"startTime":957.291,"endTime":958.416,"body":"When I think of"},{"startTime":958.416,"endTime":960.083,"body":"a client that was a manager."},{"startTime":960.083,"endTime":961.291,"body":"But I think the same"},{"startTime":961.291,"endTime":963.458,"body":"applies to people in sports."},{"startTime":964.416,"endTime":968.416,"body":"This manager identified with being competent"},{"startTime":968.416,"endTime":970.708,"body":"and as he identified with it,"},{"startTime":970.708,"endTime":972.916,"body":"it became a little bit rigid,"},{"startTime":973.458,"endTime":975.25,"body":"tried to prove it, tried to improve."},{"startTime":977.958,"endTime":979.25,"body":"Started pushing away"},{"startTime":979.25,"endTime":981.333,"body":"certain experiences."},{"startTime":981.333,"endTime":984.125,"body":"And when we talked about that,"},{"startTime":984.125,"endTime":986.208,"body":"we aimed at freeing him"},{"startTime":986.208,"endTime":988.875,"body":"from the pressure that he had put on himself"},{"startTime":988.875,"endTime":991.625,"body":"by identifying him in a certain way"},{"startTime":991.625,"endTime":994.125,"body":"so that he would have more access to"},{"startTime":994.125,"endTime":997.75,"body":"his creativeness, to his goofiness,"},{"startTime":997.75,"endTime":999.75,"body":"to his playfulness,"},{"startTime":999.75,"endTime":1004.458,"body":"and I think when we want to allow that flow state,"},{"startTime":1004.458,"endTime":1006.291,"body":"we need an identity"},{"startTime":1006.291,"endTime":1007.791,"body":"that of course"},{"startTime":1007.791,"endTime":1010.666,"body":"supports or makes it possible"},{"startTime":1010.666,"endTime":1013.083,"body":"or creates the conditions that"},{"startTime":1013.875,"endTime":1015.5,"body":"something can come up"},{"startTime":1015.5,"endTime":1018.625,"body":"and that you can listen and act on that impulse."},{"startTime":1020.916,"endTime":1022.458,"body":"Yeah, I really like that."},{"startTime":1022.458,"endTime":1023.458,"body":"And as you're saying that,"},{"startTime":1023.458,"endTime":1025.25,"body":"I'm thinking more and more about how identity"},{"startTime":1025.25,"endTime":1027.916,"body":"is really a cognitive concept."},{"startTime":1028.791,"endTime":1029.083,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1029.083,"endTime":1030.375,"body":"It's an idea."},{"startTime":1030.375,"endTime":1030.791,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1030.791,"endTime":1034.375,"body":"And so it is restrictive in some ways."},{"startTime":1034.583,"endTime":1036.166,"body":"Where we want to be able"},{"startTime":1036.166,"endTime":1037.5,"body":"to feel our feelings"},{"startTime":1037.5,"endTime":1040.458,"body":"and have our instincts with us as well"},{"startTime":1040.5,"endTime":1043.875,"body":"and not tie too much to the concept."},{"startTime":1043.875,"endTime":1045.416,"body":"What does that bring up for you, Machiel?"},{"startTime":1046.625,"endTime":1049.583,"body":"Well, the Jungian notion of the Persona."},{"startTime":1050.666,"endTime":1052.333,"body":"In Jungian psychology"},{"startTime":1052.333,"endTime":1053.875,"body":"people have a Persona."},{"startTime":1053.875,"endTime":1056.458,"body":"It comes from the Greek word mask."},{"startTime":1056.458,"endTime":1057.333,"body":"We have a mask"},{"startTime":1057.333,"endTime":1058.75,"body":"that we present to the world."},{"startTime":1061.083,"endTime":1063.375,"body":"It's not identical to identity,"},{"startTime":1063.375,"endTime":1065.5,"body":"but it is very close."},{"startTime":1066.041,"endTime":1068.583,"body":"So the doctor has a Persona"},{"startTime":1068.583,"endTime":1069.5,"body":"of the Doctor."},{"startTime":1069.5,"endTime":1071.458,"body":"And that is great because we need"},{"startTime":1071.458,"endTime":1073.333,"body":"to feel that there is a doctor."},{"startTime":1073.333,"endTime":1074.625,"body":"Or when you step in a plane,"},{"startTime":1074.625,"endTime":1075.708,"body":"you want to have someone with"},{"startTime":1075.708,"endTime":1078.625,"body":"a uniform that looks like a pilot that"},{"startTime":1079.666,"endTime":1080.291,"body":"does something."},{"startTime":1081.25,"endTime":1082.416,"body":"That's their Persona,"},{"startTime":1082.416,"endTime":1084.625,"body":"that's their work identity,"},{"startTime":1084.625,"endTime":1088.291,"body":"and work identity is great that way."},{"startTime":1088.291,"endTime":1089.708,"body":"And of course the pilot,"},{"startTime":1089.708,"endTime":1091.75,"body":"or the doctor is more than just"},{"startTime":1091.75,"endTime":1093.083,"body":"the pilot and the doctor."},{"startTime":1094.458,"endTime":1096.791,"body":"They're full human beings where you"},{"startTime":1096.791,"endTime":1098.75,"body":"have these other aspects as well."},{"startTime":1099.666,"endTime":1105.416,"body":"And if the outside world mirrors back to you,"},{"startTime":1105.416,"endTime":1109.25,"body":"you are such a gentle person,"},{"startTime":1109.833,"endTime":1112.0,"body":"then before you know, you want to be"},{"startTime":1112.0,"endTime":1113.958,"body":"a gentle person and you start"},{"startTime":1113.958,"endTime":1116.791,"body":"creating a self identity of a gentle person."},{"startTime":1117.666,"endTime":1119.458,"body":"And then it leaves out that"},{"startTime":1119.458,"endTime":1121.75,"body":"the assertive, aggressive side,"},{"startTime":1121.75,"endTime":1123.666,"body":"the shadow in Jungian psychology"},{"startTime":1124.541,"endTime":1128.208,"body":"gets relegated into the margins"},{"startTime":1128.208,"endTime":1130.541,"body":"and you become one sided."},{"startTime":1131.125,"endTime":1134.458,"body":"So identity drives behavior"},{"startTime":1134.458,"endTime":1136.958,"body":"and is really helpful and is necessary."},{"startTime":1137.833,"endTime":1140.458,"body":"And the big danger is"},{"startTime":1141.041,"endTime":1143.166,"body":"if we only believe your identity,"},{"startTime":1143.166,"endTime":1144.5,"body":"you believe only the tip"},{"startTime":1144.5,"endTime":1146.625,"body":"of the iceberg of what you really are."},{"startTime":1147.75,"endTime":1148.666,"body":"And, yeah,"},{"startTime":1148.666,"endTime":1149.166,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":1150.458,"endTime":1151.958,"body":"It's an add Akke-Jeanne,"},{"startTime":1151.958,"endTime":1152.875,"body":"I see you want to get in here."},{"startTime":1152.875,"endTime":1153.583,"body":"I just want to add."},{"startTime":1154.333,"endTime":1156.666,"body":"And the rigidity also"},{"startTime":1156.666,"endTime":1158.0,"body":"comes with symptoms."},{"startTime":1158.0,"endTime":1158.333,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1158.333,"endTime":1160.291,"body":"Like often if we're just the tip of the iceberg,"},{"startTime":1160.291,"endTime":1160.958,"body":"we can experience"},{"startTime":1161.5,"endTime":1163.666,"body":"anxiety, depression, different"},{"startTime":1163.666,"endTime":1166.416,"body":"symptoms come up in relation to that."},{"startTime":1166.416,"endTime":1167.041,"body":"So I just wanted"},{"startTime":1167.041,"endTime":1169.291,"body":"to add that that's issue."},{"startTime":1169.291,"endTime":1170.625,"body":"What do you want to say, Akke-Jeanne?"},{"startTime":1170.625,"endTime":1172.791,"body":"Yeah, I also had an association."},{"startTime":1172.791,"endTime":1176.0,"body":"You know, like in soccer, when"},{"startTime":1176.0,"endTime":1178.25,"body":"someone identifies with a position"},{"startTime":1178.25,"endTime":1179.916,"body":"like being the striker or the"},{"startTime":1179.916,"endTime":1182.583,"body":"number nine, if you really"},{"startTime":1182.583,"endTime":1185.333,"body":"identify with that position,"},{"startTime":1185.333,"endTime":1187.458,"body":"you want to behave accordingly,"},{"startTime":1187.458,"endTime":1188.958,"body":"you want to protect it."},{"startTime":1188.958,"endTime":1190.958,"body":"And it might become a little bit"},{"startTime":1190.958,"endTime":1193.125,"body":"more difficult to, for example,"},{"startTime":1193.125,"endTime":1194.375,"body":"if they're suddenly"},{"startTime":1194.375,"endTime":1196.916,"body":"also an attacking team,"},{"startTime":1196.916,"endTime":1200.333,"body":"to have more of that defensive role,"},{"startTime":1200.333,"endTime":1204.791,"body":"because you are identified with being an attacker."},{"startTime":1204.791,"endTime":1206.541,"body":"So I wonder if in sports"},{"startTime":1206.541,"endTime":1207.958,"body":"it shows up like that."},{"startTime":1209.416,"endTime":1209.791,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1209.791,"endTime":1211.666,"body":"I was just thinking of,"},{"startTime":1212.416,"endTime":1215.25,"body":"a player I played with at Ajax"},{"startTime":1215.25,"endTime":1217.25,"body":"who was super hyped as a striker."},{"startTime":1217.958,"endTime":1219.333,"body":"And I was thinking how."},{"startTime":1219.333,"endTime":1219.666,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1219.666,"endTime":1222.458,"body":"Like as an impressionable teen."},{"startTime":1222.458,"endTime":1222.833,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1224.208,"endTime":1225.791,"body":"We're impressionable."},{"startTime":1225.791,"endTime":1227.041,"body":"We're going to kind of change"},{"startTime":1227.041,"endTime":1228.75,"body":"in different ways as well as we're"},{"startTime":1228.75,"endTime":1230.75,"body":"aging and growing into ourselves."},{"startTime":1232.833,"endTime":1235.25,"body":"I think that idea of what a striker is,"},{"startTime":1235.25,"endTime":1237.375,"body":"how they act or they're attacking,"},{"startTime":1237.375,"endTime":1238.083,"body":"they don't care,"},{"startTime":1238.083,"endTime":1239.291,"body":"they're a little bit ruthless."},{"startTime":1239.291,"endTime":1241.708,"body":"These are kind of personality"},{"startTime":1241.708,"endTime":1244.0,"body":"dimensions I think that he would"},{"startTime":1244.0,"endTime":1246.583,"body":"adopt due to the role or try to"},{"startTime":1246.583,"endTime":1248.75,"body":"embody in some way due to the role"},{"startTime":1249.375,"endTime":1251.416,"body":"and other parts of him, like you're"},{"startTime":1251.416,"endTime":1253.041,"body":"saying, are kind of not being"},{"startTime":1253.041,"endTime":1254.333,"body":"privileged as much."},{"startTime":1255.083,"endTime":1256.833,"body":"But I just wonder for him how much"},{"startTime":1256.833,"endTime":1258.833,"body":"that affected his adaptability,"},{"startTime":1260.0,"endTime":1261.875,"body":"and really getting to know himself."},{"startTime":1261.875,"endTime":1262.166,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1262.166,"endTime":1263.666,"body":"I think in Jungian psychology,"},{"startTime":1263.666,"endTime":1266.5,"body":"a beauty is what I see in my role as"},{"startTime":1267.541,"endTime":1269.416,"body":"a counselor to people is kind of"},{"startTime":1269.416,"endTime":1271.041,"body":"helping people get to know themselves."},{"startTime":1271.041,"endTime":1272.166,"body":"The magic of that."},{"startTime":1273.541,"endTime":1274.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1274.0,"endTime":1275.458,"body":"And as you were talking, I thought"},{"startTime":1275.458,"endTime":1277.791,"body":"if you identify with a striker,"},{"startTime":1278.333,"endTime":1279.541,"body":"and you are not scoring,"},{"startTime":1280.208,"endTime":1282.291,"body":"then your identity is also suffering."},{"startTime":1284.375,"endTime":1284.75,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1284.75,"endTime":1286.291,"body":"Because you're not."},{"startTime":1286.833,"endTime":1288.125,"body":"The experiences,"},{"startTime":1288.125,"endTime":1290.291,"body":"don't fit with your identity."},{"startTime":1290.291,"endTime":1292.375,"body":"And so you get more tensed,"},{"startTime":1292.375,"endTime":1293.958,"body":"the tension gets into the body"},{"startTime":1293.958,"endTime":1296.416,"body":"and that makes it even more difficult"},{"startTime":1296.416,"endTime":1299.416,"body":"to play and to let go."},{"startTime":1300.916,"endTime":1302.916,"body":"You know, in one of the previous"},{"startTime":1302.916,"endTime":1304.583,"body":"episodes, John, you said"},{"startTime":1305.416,"endTime":1307.625,"body":"in order to strive for gold,"},{"startTime":1307.625,"endTime":1309.458,"body":"there is also a non striving."},{"startTime":1310.333,"endTime":1312.666,"body":"So in that identity,"},{"startTime":1312.666,"endTime":1315.458,"body":"can you also allow for non identity"},{"startTime":1315.458,"endTime":1318.166,"body":"in a way to be there so that you"},{"startTime":1318.166,"endTime":1320.166,"body":"can really be in the moment"},{"startTime":1320.166,"endTime":1323.541,"body":"and follow that, spontaneous"},{"startTime":1323.541,"endTime":1326.666,"body":"impulse gesture, that creativity."},{"startTime":1328.0,"endTime":1328.375,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1328.375,"endTime":1330.875,"body":"And most helpful if you can create"},{"startTime":1330.875,"endTime":1332.541,"body":"an identity that you're someone"},{"startTime":1332.541,"endTime":1333.666,"body":"who's in the moment,"},{"startTime":1334.958,"endTime":1338.0,"body":"because there is identity supportive."},{"startTime":1340.583,"endTime":1342.708,"body":"Yeah, I was wondering that because I do"},{"startTime":1342.708,"endTime":1346.208,"body":"find myself using the terms identity"},{"startTime":1346.208,"endTime":1348.333,"body":"sometimes in the counseling room as,"},{"startTime":1348.958,"endTime":1349.375,"body":"right."},{"startTime":1349.916,"endTime":1351.041,"body":"You are someone who"},{"startTime":1351.625,"endTime":1353.208,"body":"can handle tough things."},{"startTime":1353.208,"endTime":1353.583,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1353.583,"endTime":1355.833,"body":"Like in a way, kind of helping"},{"startTime":1355.833,"endTime":1357.666,"body":"someone see themselves differently."},{"startTime":1358.458,"endTime":1359.375,"body":"That is."},{"startTime":1359.375,"endTime":1360.25,"body":"That is good."},{"startTime":1360.625,"endTime":1363.0,"body":"Well, I was still, thinking about that"},{"startTime":1363.0,"endTime":1365.708,"body":"soccer player and their identity."},{"startTime":1367.541,"endTime":1369.625,"body":"When they're in their non identity,"},{"startTime":1369.625,"endTime":1370.833,"body":"they're in a flow."},{"startTime":1371.583,"endTime":1373.416,"body":"And you can see this, also"},{"startTime":1373.416,"endTime":1377.75,"body":"at this World cup with some players,"},{"startTime":1377.75,"endTime":1379.75,"body":"or at least what I think as a supporter,"},{"startTime":1379.75,"endTime":1382.041,"body":"but correct me if, I'm wrong,"},{"startTime":1382.625,"endTime":1386.916,"body":"but I see, players taking their time."},{"startTime":1388.791,"endTime":1391.25,"body":"They're smiling, they're having"},{"startTime":1391.25,"endTime":1393.333,"body":"a good time, and they're not too"},{"startTime":1393.333,"endTime":1396.125,"body":"worried about the expectations"},{"startTime":1396.125,"endTime":1399.041,"body":"or how they're being perceived."},{"startTime":1399.041,"endTime":1400.375,"body":"You know, they take the ball and they"},{"startTime":1400.375,"endTime":1402.375,"body":"pause for a minute before."},{"startTime":1402.375,"endTime":1404.125,"body":"And as a spectator,"},{"startTime":1404.125,"endTime":1405.5,"body":"you're really looking like,"},{"startTime":1405.5,"endTime":1406.791,"body":"kick the ball, kick the ball."},{"startTime":1406.791,"endTime":1408.625,"body":"You know, but they're really,"},{"startTime":1408.625,"endTime":1410.25,"body":"really calm and you can just see"},{"startTime":1410.25,"endTime":1414.166,"body":"they're in a different flow."},{"startTime":1414.166,"endTime":1414.875,"body":"So there's."},{"startTime":1416.041,"endTime":1417.833,"body":"I'm watching non identity."},{"startTime":1417.833,"endTime":1420.125,"body":"Although as a supporter,"},{"startTime":1421.0,"endTime":1423.041,"body":"I experience a lot of identity"},{"startTime":1423.041,"endTime":1425.75,"body":"because if they win, I win."},{"startTime":1425.75,"endTime":1426.625,"body":"It's we win."},{"startTime":1427.916,"endTime":1430.083,"body":"And if they lose, we lose."},{"startTime":1431.416,"endTime":1433.5,"body":"Yeah, that's a great example of,"},{"startTime":1433.5,"endTime":1436.083,"body":"you know, you're a fan, but the team."},{"startTime":1436.083,"endTime":1437.5,"body":"But there's some connection there."},{"startTime":1437.5,"endTime":1439.291,"body":"And this same thing happens"},{"startTime":1439.291,"endTime":1440.458,"body":"in the mind, right?"},{"startTime":1441.416,"endTime":1444.166,"body":"I'm a winner, I lose or I don't win."},{"startTime":1444.166,"endTime":1447.0,"body":"There's like a tie between the concept,"},{"startTime":1447.0,"endTime":1449.0,"body":"whether it's, you know, your team"},{"startTime":1449.0,"endTime":1450.333,"body":"and you're part of the team, or."},{"startTime":1450.333,"endTime":1451.541,"body":"Or whether it's in your mind"},{"startTime":1451.541,"endTime":1452.916,"body":"how you label your identity"},{"startTime":1452.916,"endTime":1454.25,"body":"and your connection with that."},{"startTime":1454.25,"endTime":1456.916,"body":"So what would we say, from a depth"},{"startTime":1456.916,"endTime":1460.333,"body":"psychological, view on performance,"},{"startTime":1461.666,"endTime":1464.041,"body":"what are things, people can take away"},{"startTime":1464.583,"endTime":1468.25,"body":"from, our conversation"},{"startTime":1469.375,"endTime":1471.541,"body":"on the performance and identity?"},{"startTime":1473.708,"endTime":1475.041,"body":"Well, I really like what Machiel"},{"startTime":1475.041,"endTime":1476.416,"body":"said about how identity,"},{"startTime":1477.583,"endTime":1479.333,"body":"is a big predictor of behavior."},{"startTime":1479.875,"endTime":1481.791,"body":"And I'm gonna, I'm gonna."},{"startTime":1483.083,"endTime":1484.208,"body":"Sometimes when people have"},{"startTime":1484.208,"endTime":1485.708,"body":"real rigid identities,"},{"startTime":1485.708,"endTime":1488.041,"body":"they can be successful, right?"},{"startTime":1488.041,"endTime":1489.166,"body":"That, that happens."},{"startTime":1490.375,"endTime":1491.375,"body":"There's certain players,"},{"startTime":1491.375,"endTime":1494.208,"body":"you might think of megalomaniacs, right,"},{"startTime":1494.208,"endTime":1496.0,"body":"who like, they believe something"},{"startTime":1496.0,"endTime":1497.958,"body":"and it's just kind of worked for them,"},{"startTime":1497.958,"endTime":1499.791,"body":"for most people that doesn not work."},{"startTime":1499.791,"endTime":1500.041,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1500.041,"endTime":1502.458,"body":"You can't create a whole world around you"},{"startTime":1502.458,"endTime":1504.083,"body":"that just reflects back"},{"startTime":1504.083,"endTime":1505.75,"body":"kind of what you believe in yourself."},{"startTime":1506.375,"endTime":1507.583,"body":"There's some adaptation"},{"startTime":1507.583,"endTime":1509.583,"body":"to reality and with that comes a lot"},{"startTime":1509.583,"endTime":1511.291,"body":"of great character things."},{"startTime":1511.291,"endTime":1513.916,"body":"Humility, trust, warmth, like a lot"},{"startTime":1513.916,"endTime":1515.125,"body":"of great things come with that."},{"startTime":1516.375,"endTime":1517.416,"body":"So that was something I wanted"},{"startTime":1517.416,"endTime":1518.625,"body":"to highlight about performance."},{"startTime":1520.416,"endTime":1520.791,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1520.791,"endTime":1521.708,"body":"You have a couple of,"},{"startTime":1522.25,"endTime":1524.083,"body":"of course there's a part of"},{"startTime":1524.083,"endTime":1527.833,"body":"you need to think you're really good"},{"startTime":1527.833,"endTime":1528.666,"body":"to play."},{"startTime":1529.291,"endTime":1530.625,"body":"And there's different than"},{"startTime":1530.625,"endTime":1531.916,"body":"when you have your identity"},{"startTime":1531.916,"endTime":1533.291,"body":"of I need to be the best."},{"startTime":1534.583,"endTime":1537.041,"body":"And there's only a very few"},{"startTime":1537.041,"endTime":1538.666,"body":"people who are the best."},{"startTime":1538.666,"endTime":1540.791,"body":"And so once in a while the person who"},{"startTime":1540.791,"endTime":1542.583,"body":"thinks they're the best is the best."},{"startTime":1543.458,"endTime":1545.916,"body":"And that will work out for a while"},{"startTime":1545.916,"endTime":1547.833,"body":"till the career goes down"},{"startTime":1547.833,"endTime":1550.666,"body":"or the performance doesn't meet it."},{"startTime":1550.666,"endTime":1552.375,"body":"And then you see the day that"},{"startTime":1552.375,"endTime":1555.333,"body":"they struggle with not being the best."},{"startTime":1556.208,"endTime":1558.75,"body":"And that."},{"startTime":1559.416,"endTime":1560.916,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1560.916,"endTime":1562.625,"body":"And retirement from sport"},{"startTime":1562.625,"endTime":1563.875,"body":"has just been a big thing."},{"startTime":1563.875,"endTime":1565.333,"body":"This comes to a head and it did"},{"startTime":1565.333,"endTime":1566.75,"body":"for me as well when I retired."},{"startTime":1566.75,"endTime":1569.416,"body":"Like, that was a huge identity moment."},{"startTime":1569.416,"endTime":1570.875,"body":"Like, who am I?"},{"startTime":1570.875,"endTime":1572.0,"body":"I'm not a soccer player."},{"startTime":1572.0,"endTime":1572.625,"body":"Who am I?"},{"startTime":1572.625,"endTime":1573.416,"body":"What do I like?"},{"startTime":1574.583,"endTime":1575.625,"body":"What do I want to do?"},{"startTime":1575.625,"endTime":1577.083,"body":"How do people see me?"},{"startTime":1578.375,"endTime":1579.5,"body":"How do I grieve?"},{"startTime":1579.5,"endTime":1581.958,"body":"Kind of like this changing role."},{"startTime":1581.958,"endTime":1582.375,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1582.375,"endTime":1583.333,"body":"Because there's some"},{"startTime":1583.958,"endTime":1585.583,"body":"struggle with change."},{"startTime":1585.583,"endTime":1585.875,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1585.875,"endTime":1587.583,"body":"There's some pain that comes with it."},{"startTime":1588.625,"endTime":1589.916,"body":"In sports psychology they talk"},{"startTime":1589.916,"endTime":1591.75,"body":"about athletic identity"},{"startTime":1591.75,"endTime":1592.958,"body":"and kind of"},{"startTime":1592.958,"endTime":1596.708,"body":"if you have an athletic identity or a"},{"startTime":1596.708,"endTime":1598.75,"body":"myopic athletic identity,"},{"startTime":1598.75,"endTime":1601.25,"body":"it can be a risk for things like transition"},{"startTime":1601.25,"endTime":1603.25,"body":"or things like your sport not working out,"},{"startTime":1603.958,"endTime":1605.291,"body":"you're not scoring goals."},{"startTime":1605.291,"endTime":1607.333,"body":"But if you have a broader based identity,"},{"startTime":1607.333,"endTime":1608.916,"body":"hey, I'm a soccer player,"},{"startTime":1608.916,"endTime":1610.291,"body":"but I'm also, you know,"},{"startTime":1610.291,"endTime":1611.625,"body":"a person who likes"},{"startTime":1611.625,"endTime":1613.458,"body":"to go throw the ball with my dog."},{"startTime":1613.458,"endTime":1616.416,"body":"I'm a sibling."},{"startTime":1616.416,"endTime":1617.458,"body":"I have a friend group."},{"startTime":1617.458,"endTime":1617.708,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1617.708,"endTime":1618.791,"body":"These other things that"},{"startTime":1618.791,"endTime":1620.166,"body":"kind of bring things to life."},{"startTime":1620.166,"endTime":1623.166,"body":"Often that can be a really regulating place"},{"startTime":1623.166,"endTime":1626.875,"body":"for athletes to have a little broader based identity"},{"startTime":1626.875,"endTime":1629.0,"body":"and be able to manage the ups and downs"},{"startTime":1629.0,"endTime":1630.208,"body":"that now naturally come"},{"startTime":1630.208,"endTime":1631.958,"body":"with being in a high level sport."},{"startTime":1633.333,"endTime":1638.416,"body":"Well, we're going to see this World cup,"},{"startTime":1638.416,"endTime":1640.291,"body":"most likely the final performance"},{"startTime":1640.291,"endTime":1643.25,"body":"of Ronaldo on the World Cup."},{"startTime":1643.25,"endTime":1646.166,"body":"He's 41 and has a"},{"startTime":1646.166,"endTime":1649.958,"body":"and it will be very interesting to see"},{"startTime":1649.958,"endTime":1653.541,"body":"can he still perform on 41,"},{"startTime":1653.541,"endTime":1657.333,"body":"that he is a support to his team"},{"startTime":1657.333,"endTime":1660.625,"body":"or is his identity of wanting to be the best"},{"startTime":1660.625,"endTime":1662.541,"body":"and winning and all these things."},{"startTime":1662.541,"endTime":1666.25,"body":"He for sure used to be, now blocking"},{"startTime":1666.25,"endTime":1668.083,"body":"the flow of the new generation"},{"startTime":1668.083,"endTime":1670.625,"body":"that's behind him because the team"},{"startTime":1670.625,"endTime":1673.666,"body":"will have to adapt to his style."},{"startTime":1674.541,"endTime":1677.916,"body":"So it's going to be interesting."},{"startTime":1678.541,"endTime":1680.458,"body":"It could work and it could not work."},{"startTime":1683.041,"endTime":1684.25,"body":"This World cup will show that."},{"startTime":1685.208,"endTime":1686.791,"body":"Akka-Jeanne Jean, what would be your"},{"startTime":1687.458,"endTime":1688.5,"body":"recommendations"},{"startTime":1688.5,"endTime":1689.958,"body":"for someone like Ronaldo?"},{"startTime":1689.958,"endTime":1692.0,"body":"What do you think would make him"},{"startTime":1692.0,"endTime":1693.833,"body":"be a happy, help him be a happier"},{"startTime":1693.833,"endTime":1695.541,"body":"person in this situation?"},{"startTime":1695.541,"endTime":1697.375,"body":"As an aging athlete,"},{"startTime":1697.375,"endTime":1698.416,"body":"do you have any ideas?"},{"startTime":1698.416,"endTime":1701.458,"body":"I have ideas about it similar to you,"},{"startTime":1701.458,"endTime":1703.625,"body":"I think, or what you expressed earlier."},{"startTime":1703.625,"endTime":1705.833,"body":"Hold, hold your identity lightly."},{"startTime":1706.958,"endTime":1708.583,"body":"And I think that is,"},{"startTime":1708.583,"endTime":1711.5,"body":"is really almost a daily practice"},{"startTime":1711.5,"endTime":1713.458,"body":"not to identify too much with"},{"startTime":1713.458,"endTime":1715.291,"body":"the one thing that you're doing."},{"startTime":1715.291,"endTime":1717.458,"body":"And even though when you like it,"},{"startTime":1719.083,"endTime":1722.833,"body":"reflect on the reasons why are you doing it."},{"startTime":1722.833,"endTime":1725.916,"body":"Does it come from genuine pleasure?"},{"startTime":1725.916,"endTime":1727.916,"body":"Because then you don't have to be at"},{"startTime":1727.916,"endTime":1730.75,"body":"the world stage, you can continue to do it,"},{"startTime":1730.75,"endTime":1734.625,"body":"or do you do it to prove something."},{"startTime":1734.625,"endTime":1738.833,"body":"And I think that is interesting"},{"startTime":1738.833,"endTime":1740.958,"body":"in depth psychology anyways"},{"startTime":1740.958,"endTime":1742.541,"body":"that we distinguish between"},{"startTime":1742.541,"endTime":1745.0,"body":"the deeper motives or motives."},{"startTime":1745.0,"endTime":1746.625,"body":"What is really driving someone"},{"startTime":1746.625,"endTime":1748.833,"body":"to be the best or to claim"},{"startTime":1748.833,"endTime":1750.458,"body":"an identity of the best?"},{"startTime":1751.25,"endTime":1753.625,"body":"Is it a compensation for wounding"},{"startTime":1753.625,"endTime":1756.083,"body":"or is it related to a wounding in the past."},{"startTime":1756.708,"endTime":1759.291,"body":"Or is it something that someone"},{"startTime":1759.291,"endTime":1762.208,"body":"genuinely feels living through them"},{"startTime":1762.208,"endTime":1763.916,"body":"and acting on that?"},{"startTime":1765.208,"endTime":1768.125,"body":"What is that impulse of wanting to be the best"},{"startTime":1768.125,"endTime":1769.833,"body":"or wanting to play,"},{"startTime":1771.375,"endTime":1775.625,"body":"So doing an inquiry."},{"startTime":1775.625,"endTime":1777.666,"body":"What is really, really driving me,"},{"startTime":1777.666,"endTime":1779.208,"body":"what's truly driving me,"},{"startTime":1780.416,"endTime":1783.916,"body":"might be part of my suggestion."},{"startTime":1785.208,"endTime":1786.166,"body":"And then another one"},{"startTime":1786.166,"endTime":1787.541,"body":"before I go over to you."},{"startTime":1789.208,"endTime":1790.541,"body":"Often people think about"},{"startTime":1790.541,"endTime":1791.833,"body":"personal development."},{"startTime":1791.833,"endTime":1793.916,"body":"New things need to be developed,"},{"startTime":1794.625,"endTime":1796.875,"body":"new skills, new attitudes."},{"startTime":1796.875,"endTime":1797.833,"body":"Which is true."},{"startTime":1797.833,"endTime":1799.708,"body":"But personal development often"},{"startTime":1799.708,"endTime":1802.5,"body":"also is letting go, and grieving."},{"startTime":1805.333,"endTime":1807.291,"body":"So that some transformation"},{"startTime":1807.291,"endTime":1808.333,"body":"can take place."},{"startTime":1810.041,"endTime":1811.5,"body":"So that really speaks to what"},{"startTime":1811.5,"endTime":1812.375,"body":"you were saying earlier."},{"startTime":1814.041,"endTime":1815.333,"body":"But you said already,"},{"startTime":1815.333,"endTime":1817.583,"body":"like I also have some ideas."},{"startTime":1817.583,"endTime":1818.708,"body":"I'd love to hear them."},{"startTime":1821.958,"endTime":1823.458,"body":"Yeah, I think you said it"},{"startTime":1823.458,"endTime":1827.583,"body":"great and right, like letting,"},{"startTime":1827.583,"endTime":1829.5,"body":"letting yourself adapt"},{"startTime":1829.5,"endTime":1831.083,"body":"to a changing situation."},{"startTime":1831.75,"endTime":1832.041,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1832.041,"endTime":1834.25,"body":"It can be painful but like that's"},{"startTime":1835.0,"endTime":1836.791,"body":"There's really a beauty in doing that."},{"startTime":1837.666,"endTime":1838.791,"body":"Just feeling the feelings,"},{"startTime":1838.791,"endTime":1840.541,"body":"grieving things are changing."},{"startTime":1840.541,"endTime":1841.083,"body":"Who am I?"},{"startTime":1841.083,"endTime":1842.375,"body":"But there's a beauty"},{"startTime":1842.375,"endTime":1844.0,"body":"in discovering what's new."},{"startTime":1844.875,"endTime":1846.208,"body":"Discovering a new role,"},{"startTime":1846.208,"endTime":1848.791,"body":"being able to relate to people. In some ways."},{"startTime":1848.791,"endTime":1849.0,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1849.0,"endTime":1850.958,"body":"If you stay rigid in your identity,"},{"startTime":1850.958,"endTime":1853.125,"body":"you're less in your environment,"},{"startTime":1853.125,"endTime":1855.75,"body":"you're less in reality really."},{"startTime":1855.75,"endTime":1857.125,"body":"We talk about it that way."},{"startTime":1858.625,"endTime":1860.458,"body":"So I think in Jungian psychology"},{"startTime":1860.458,"endTime":1862.375,"body":"it really is an invitation into reality,"},{"startTime":1863.083,"endTime":1865.25,"body":"however painful it might be at times."},{"startTime":1865.875,"endTime":1869.041,"body":"Well, he wants to be the best in the world"},{"startTime":1869.041,"endTime":1872.208,"body":"and it's really important for Ronaldo"},{"startTime":1872.208,"endTime":1873.166,"body":"to be the best in the world."},{"startTime":1873.166,"endTime":1875.0,"body":"He has that more than Messi."},{"startTime":1875.0,"endTime":1876.666,"body":"Messi is not claiming"},{"startTime":1876.666,"endTime":1879.166,"body":"I'm the best of the all time or"},{"startTime":1879.166,"endTime":1881.708,"body":"I am better than Ronaldo."},{"startTime":1881.708,"endTime":1884.416,"body":"You don't hear him say these things."},{"startTime":1885.791,"endTime":1888.583,"body":"And Ronaldo is saying those things."},{"startTime":1888.583,"endTime":1890.541,"body":"In interviews, Ronaldo says"},{"startTime":1890.541,"endTime":1891.791,"body":"I am better than Messi."},{"startTime":1893.125,"endTime":1897.375,"body":"And he has a deep desire to be the best."},{"startTime":1900.416,"endTime":1902.25,"body":"And there the question is,"},{"startTime":1903.875,"endTime":1905.25,"body":"and he's not now, right?"},{"startTime":1905.25,"endTime":1908.041,"body":"That's like, everyone sees it, right?"},{"startTime":1908.041,"endTime":1908.333,"body":"Like."},{"startTime":1908.333,"endTime":1910.0,"body":"And he can go on believing it,"},{"startTime":1910.0,"endTime":1912.958,"body":"but he's not the best in the world."},{"startTime":1913.75,"endTime":1917.958,"body":"Yeah. So back to the topic of identity."},{"startTime":1917.958,"endTime":1919.625,"body":"We really explored"},{"startTime":1919.625,"endTime":1922.041,"body":"personal identity so far."},{"startTime":1923.125,"endTime":1926.333,"body":"And in this World cup with all those countries,"},{"startTime":1926.333,"endTime":1930.166,"body":"let's also explore collective identity."},{"startTime":1930.708,"endTime":1934.333,"body":"Well, I am wearing orange today as"},{"startTime":1934.333,"endTime":1936.166,"body":"an expression of the Dutch orange"},{"startTime":1936.708,"endTime":1939.666,"body":"identity as a little factoid"},{"startTime":1939.666,"endTime":1941.375,"body":"for the people that are listening."},{"startTime":1941.375,"endTime":1943.833,"body":"The Dutch team always plays in orange."},{"startTime":1943.833,"endTime":1946.416,"body":"And that is because of, it's a,"},{"startTime":1946.416,"endTime":1948.708,"body":"Technically, it's the kingdom of the Netherlands."},{"startTime":1948.708,"endTime":1950.333,"body":"And one of the names of the king"},{"startTime":1950.333,"endTime":1952.5,"body":"is Van Oranje from orange."},{"startTime":1953.166,"endTime":1955.541,"body":"And that is why they play in orange."},{"startTime":1956.25,"endTime":1958.583,"body":"And today I'm"},{"startTime":1959.791,"endTime":1961.875,"body":"wearing my orange identity."},{"startTime":1962.5,"endTime":1965.625,"body":"So there I, as a starter."},{"startTime":1968.333,"endTime":1969.208,"body":"And there's such a,"},{"startTime":1970.291,"endTime":1971.791,"body":"I don't know, such a unique"},{"startTime":1971.791,"endTime":1974.583,"body":"fan culture around the Oranje."},{"startTime":1974.583,"endTime":1975.791,"body":"It's really fun."},{"startTime":1975.791,"endTime":1976.25,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1976.25,"endTime":1977.916,"body":"Like, football can be inhabited"},{"startTime":1977.916,"endTime":1979.666,"body":"by hooliganism or like agression,"},{"startTime":1979.666,"endTime":1981.916,"body":"and the Dutch have never had that"},{"startTime":1981.916,"endTime":1984.208,"body":"in supporting the national team."},{"startTime":1985.25,"endTime":1988.166,"body":"In U.S. Culture, the fan culture"},{"startTime":1988.166,"endTime":1991.166,"body":"of USA is very diverse"},{"startTime":1991.166,"endTime":1994.0,"body":"and differentiated and not as clear."},{"startTime":1994.541,"endTime":1997.625,"body":"The cultural norms, I think, around how"},{"startTime":1997.625,"endTime":1999.5,"body":"you talk about soccer, how you think"},{"startTime":2000.083,"endTime":2002.708,"body":"it's very different and diverse."},{"startTime":2003.333,"endTime":2004.208,"body":"It's not as unified."},{"startTime":2005.291,"endTime":2006.5,"body":"Kind of a reflection maybe of our"},{"startTime":2006.5,"endTime":2008.541,"body":"country, you know, developing later"},{"startTime":2008.541,"endTime":2011.041,"body":"and developing in soccer later."},{"startTime":2013.208,"endTime":2014.958,"body":"So as an identity,"},{"startTime":2014.958,"endTime":2016.916,"body":"it's been interesting hearing all"},{"startTime":2016.916,"endTime":2018.875,"body":"the storytelling that's been going on."},{"startTime":2018.875,"endTime":2021.791,"body":"Oh, this is the history of U.S. soccer,"},{"startTime":2021.791,"endTime":2023.416,"body":"where we came from."},{"startTime":2023.416,"endTime":2025.5,"body":"Like, that's all being put in the media"},{"startTime":2025.5,"endTime":2026.833,"body":"as you're trying to kind"},{"startTime":2026.833,"endTime":2028.958,"body":"of formulate some stories around,"},{"startTime":2028.958,"endTime":2032.0,"body":"like, who we are as a soccer country."},{"startTime":2032.541,"endTime":2033.916,"body":"I like that, you know,"},{"startTime":2033.916,"endTime":2036.166,"body":"I described personal identity"},{"startTime":2036.166,"endTime":2038.125,"body":"as the answer who are you."},{"startTime":2038.125,"endTime":2039.541,"body":"And collective identity"},{"startTime":2039.541,"endTime":2040.958,"body":"is really who are we."},{"startTime":2040.958,"endTime":2042.666,"body":"And then there's again those"},{"startTime":2042.666,"endTime":2045.166,"body":"collection of stories."},{"startTime":2045.166,"endTime":2049.583,"body":"And the orange is a big part of it,"},{"startTime":2049.583,"endTime":2051.0,"body":"but it even goes back"},{"startTime":2051.0,"endTime":2052.375,"body":"to things in history."},{"startTime":2052.958,"endTime":2058.208,"body":"Like, the Dutch team in 1974,"},{"startTime":2058.208,"endTime":2059.833,"body":"was playing so beautiful"},{"startTime":2059.833,"endTime":2063.416,"body":"that it's still part of the Dutch soccer identity."},{"startTime":2064.083,"endTime":2066.166,"body":"And I remember that Machiel and my father"},{"startTime":2066.166,"endTime":2068.708,"body":"were listening to this vynyl record"},{"startTime":2068.708,"endTime":2070.541,"body":"that we had of that match,"},{"startTime":2071.25,"endTime":2072.708,"body":"that they were listening to"},{"startTime":2073.291,"endTime":2074.75,"body":"over and over again"},{"startTime":2074.75,"endTime":2077.958,"body":"to re experience that, which I think"},{"startTime":2077.958,"endTime":2082.833,"body":"says something about the origins or"},{"startTime":2082.833,"endTime":2086.833,"body":"about Dutch identity around soccer."},{"startTime":2087.166,"endTime":2088.833,"body":"I  think back in the days,"},{"startTime":2088.833,"endTime":2091.791,"body":"each country had much more clear identity"},{"startTime":2091.791,"endTime":2093.375,"body":"of the way they would play"},{"startTime":2094.208,"endTime":2095.833,"body":"the Dutch total football."},{"startTime":2096.958,"endTime":2098.791,"body":"The Italians had catenaccio,"},{"startTime":2098.791,"endTime":2102.083,"body":"which is a defensive system with"},{"startTime":2102.083,"endTime":2104.916,"body":"fast, counters attack."},{"startTime":2104.916,"endTime":2107.25,"body":"England at kick and rush."},{"startTime":2107.25,"endTime":2113.0,"body":"And so, identities where the cultural qualities"},{"startTime":2113.0,"endTime":2114.208,"body":"express themselves"},{"startTime":2114.208,"endTime":2116.833,"body":"in the style of the soccer."},{"startTime":2120.25,"endTime":2123.625,"body":"Cultures had different identities, that way."},{"startTime":2124.916,"endTime":2125.291,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2125.291,"endTime":2125.875,"body":"And."},{"startTime":2125.875,"endTime":2126.166,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2126.166,"endTime":2129.416,"body":"You could also think of a cultural shadow too."},{"startTime":2129.416,"endTime":2129.708,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2129.708,"endTime":2131.541,"body":"Like what is privileged."},{"startTime":2131.541,"endTime":2133.833,"body":"And I think for Holland, right."},{"startTime":2133.833,"endTime":2135.375,"body":"You got to talk about Johan Cruyff"},{"startTime":2135.375,"endTime":2136.25,"body":"if you're thinking about"},{"startTime":2136.833,"endTime":2138.416,"body":"culture and how people identify."},{"startTime":2138.416,"endTime":2140.208,"body":"And I felt this when I was at Ajax."},{"startTime":2140.208,"endTime":2142.583,"body":"This kind of, hey, we're brave,"},{"startTime":2143.458,"endTime":2146.0,"body":"we're technical, we're kind of."},{"startTime":2146.0,"endTime":2146.666,"body":"We don't care."},{"startTime":2146.666,"endTime":2147.375,"body":"We got a little bit"},{"startTime":2147.375,"endTime":2148.333,"body":"of an attitude, right."},{"startTime":2148.333,"endTime":2150.958,"body":"A very Amsterdam attitude in Holland."},{"startTime":2150.958,"endTime":2152.25,"body":"It's not all the way in Holland,"},{"startTime":2152.25,"endTime":2154.416,"body":"but like that part of the identity,"},{"startTime":2156.416,"endTime":2156.708,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2156.708,"endTime":2158.958,"body":"I think shapes current players."},{"startTime":2160.083,"endTime":2161.125,"body":"It shaped me at Ajax."},{"startTime":2161.125,"endTime":2162.166,"body":"It shaped other players."},{"startTime":2162.833,"endTime":2164.166,"body":"And there's probably parts"},{"startTime":2164.166,"endTime":2165.333,"body":"of ourselves in ways."},{"startTime":2165.333,"endTime":2165.5,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2165.5,"endTime":2166.833,"body":"We identify as."},{"startTime":2166.833,"endTime":2168.333,"body":"And tell me as Dutch people,"},{"startTime":2168.333,"endTime":2170.416,"body":"how you identify in your culture."},{"startTime":2171.291,"endTime":2172.791,"body":"But there's parts you privilege again,"},{"startTime":2172.791,"endTime":2174.166,"body":"and parts of you"},{"startTime":2174.166,"endTime":2176.041,"body":"that kind of get less privileged"},{"startTime":2176.041,"endTime":2177.791,"body":"and put into the cultural shadow."},{"startTime":2179.0,"endTime":2179.791,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2179.791,"endTime":2183.583,"body":"And, the dutch way of seeing,"},{"startTime":2183.583,"endTime":2184.791,"body":"especially back in the days,"},{"startTime":2184.791,"endTime":2186.833,"body":"was the Italian way."},{"startTime":2186.833,"endTime":2187.958,"body":"That's a shadow."},{"startTime":2187.958,"endTime":2189.375,"body":"That's not what we do."},{"startTime":2189.375,"endTime":2191.375,"body":"We want to play dominant soccer."},{"startTime":2191.916,"endTime":2193.208,"body":"Attractive."},{"startTime":2193.208,"endTime":2194.833,"body":"And I think you can even"},{"startTime":2194.833,"endTime":2196.833,"body":"see it in the songs they have."},{"startTime":2197.458,"endTime":2201.041,"body":"Like the American, at the last World cup,"},{"startTime":2201.041,"endTime":2203.5,"body":"it struck me that they would chant,"},{"startTime":2203.5,"endTime":2205.458,"body":"we believe that we can win."},{"startTime":2207.708,"endTime":2210.333,"body":"That would never be in the Dutch."},{"startTime":2212.083,"endTime":2213.083,"body":"They would never say,"},{"startTime":2213.083,"endTime":2214.416,"body":"we believe we can win."},{"startTime":2215.833,"endTime":2220.666,"body":"And that was a bit of a martial quality."},{"startTime":2220.666,"endTime":2222.5,"body":"And we believe we can win."},{"startTime":2223.416,"endTime":2224.875,"body":"And the Dutch would sing,"},{"startTime":2226.25,"endTime":2229.083,"body":"in a slightly more superior way."},{"startTime":2229.083,"endTime":2231.5,"body":"We're gonna teach you how to play soccer."},{"startTime":2234.791,"endTime":2237.416,"body":"And then have the dominant attacking style"},{"startTime":2237.416,"endTime":2242.458,"body":"by which they would play great soccer and win."},{"startTime":2243.916,"endTime":2245.083,"body":"That's their identity."},{"startTime":2245.083,"endTime":2246.958,"body":"And it's also the identity they love."},{"startTime":2248.375,"endTime":2249.291,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2249.291,"endTime":2251.333,"body":"These days that identity"},{"startTime":2252.666,"endTime":2255.291,"body":"doesn't hold because they don't have the players."},{"startTime":2256.625,"endTime":2258.375,"body":"Other countries have adopted,"},{"startTime":2259.625,"endTime":2262.041,"body":"from other styles."},{"startTime":2262.333,"endTime":2267.666,"body":"So, Spain plays Johan Cruyff 2.0."},{"startTime":2272.166,"endTime":2276.833,"body":"and Manchester City are expressions,"},{"startTime":2276.833,"endTime":2279.833,"body":"evolved expressions of the Dutch identity."},{"startTime":2280.875,"endTime":2283.666,"body":"So identity has changed"},{"startTime":2283.666,"endTime":2287.125,"body":"and Europe has changed"},{"startTime":2287.125,"endTime":2290.5,"body":"and identities, shift."},{"startTime":2291.208,"endTime":2293.333,"body":"So preferred identity."},{"startTime":2293.333,"endTime":2295.416,"body":"We would love that the dutch would go"},{"startTime":2295.416,"endTime":2298.875,"body":"to the world stage and teach the rest"},{"startTime":2298.875,"endTime":2300.541,"body":"of the world how to play soccer."},{"startTime":2301.083,"endTime":2302.291,"body":"It would be fantastic."},{"startTime":2304.041,"endTime":2304.958,"body":"As a teacher."},{"startTime":2304.958,"endTime":2305.333,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2307.666,"endTime":2309.333,"body":"There's something about Dutch"},{"startTime":2309.333,"endTime":2311.166,"body":"identifying as teachers like, oh,"},{"startTime":2311.166,"endTime":2312.375,"body":"we're gonna give you a lesson."},{"startTime":2312.375,"endTime":2313.833,"body":"Like something about that"},{"startTime":2313.833,"endTime":2315.25,"body":"feels tied to the classroom."},{"startTime":2317.083,"endTime":2318.708,"body":"I'm also thinking, you know,"},{"startTime":2318.708,"endTime":2320.833,"body":"we've got individual identity"},{"startTime":2320.833,"endTime":2323.875,"body":"and we've got collective identity."},{"startTime":2325.458,"endTime":2328.125,"body":"And collective identity helps us"},{"startTime":2328.125,"endTime":2331.25,"body":"to belong, that we're part of a group."},{"startTime":2331.25,"endTime":2331.666,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2332.583,"endTime":2333.333,"body":"The other day,"},{"startTime":2334.083,"endTime":2335.5,"body":"I saw for the first time,"},{"startTime":2336.25,"endTime":2338.791,"body":"this Dutch guy in the national team."},{"startTime":2338.791,"endTime":2340.333,"body":"This was in the pre match"},{"startTime":2340.333,"endTime":2341.833,"body":"before the world game."},{"startTime":2341.833,"endTime":2343.25,"body":"Never seen the guy before."},{"startTime":2343.25,"endTime":2344.625,"body":"He stepped onto the field"},{"startTime":2344.625,"endTime":2346.125,"body":"with his orange shirt"},{"startTime":2346.125,"endTime":2348.375,"body":"and he was immediately one of us."},{"startTime":2349.041,"endTime":2350.708,"body":"And I thought that's how interesting"},{"startTime":2350.708,"endTime":2353.75,"body":"how that sense of belonging,"},{"startTime":2353.75,"endTime":2357.208,"body":"you wear an orange shirt and you're one of us."},{"startTime":2357.208,"endTime":2358.458,"body":"And that really"},{"startTime":2358.458,"endTime":2360.625,"body":"does something really lovely."},{"startTime":2362.083,"endTime":2364.375,"body":"On an emotional, psychological,"},{"startTime":2364.375,"endTime":2366.791,"body":"physical level to belong."},{"startTime":2367.916,"endTime":2369.583,"body":"And of course there's a little bit"},{"startTime":2369.583,"endTime":2371.5,"body":"of friction because there's also"},{"startTime":2371.5,"endTime":2373.541,"body":"the desire and the need"},{"startTime":2373.541,"endTime":2375.833,"body":"for individual expression."},{"startTime":2375.833,"endTime":2377.333,"body":"So the individual and the,"},{"startTime":2379.0,"endTime":2380.583,"body":"the collective may clash."},{"startTime":2382.125,"endTime":2386.166,"body":"Well, anytime your identity becomes"},{"startTime":2386.166,"endTime":2388.916,"body":"a chokehold on who you really are,"},{"startTime":2391.333,"endTime":2392.541,"body":"it's an issue."},{"startTime":2392.541,"endTime":2394.208,"body":"But it's also important to know"},{"startTime":2394.75,"endTime":2396.666,"body":"with what you say with that shirt."},{"startTime":2397.541,"endTime":2399.416,"body":"Identity is like a shirt."},{"startTime":2400.625,"endTime":2403.0,"body":"The French people have a blue shirt"},{"startTime":2403.0,"endTime":2405.625,"body":"and the Spanish have a red shirt."},{"startTime":2406.458,"endTime":2408.208,"body":"But they all have a shirt."},{"startTime":2408.208,"endTime":2409.958,"body":"And so people are all people"},{"startTime":2410.583,"endTime":2412.875,"body":"and that's the basic shared humanity"},{"startTime":2412.875,"endTime":2414.125,"body":"and there's no difference."},{"startTime":2414.833,"endTime":2417.5,"body":"And identity is fun because we put"},{"startTime":2417.5,"endTime":2419.083,"body":"on an orange shirt out"},{"startTime":2419.083,"endTime":2420.541,"body":"of this location and you put"},{"startTime":2420.541,"endTime":2422.375,"body":"on a red shirt for your location."},{"startTime":2423.166,"endTime":2425.291,"body":"But never, never think that"},{"startTime":2425.291,"endTime":2426.916,"body":"the shirt is who you are,"},{"startTime":2428.75,"endTime":2431.416,"body":"that is, that we create identity politics."},{"startTime":2434.708,"endTime":2436.583,"body":"Hooligans get from it."},{"startTime":2436.583,"endTime":2437.916,"body":"Violence comes from it."},{"startTime":2438.75,"endTime":2442.375,"body":"Identifying with a limited part of"},{"startTime":2442.375,"endTime":2444.25,"body":"the culture or the personality"},{"startTime":2444.25,"endTime":2447.333,"body":"of being human is dangerous."},{"startTime":2448.708,"endTime":2449.5,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2449.5,"endTime":2453.25,"body":"Thanks for that little social lesson."},{"startTime":2453.25,"endTime":2454.666,"body":"Maybe identifying as humans"},{"startTime":2454.666,"endTime":2456.166,"body":"or inhabitants of the planet,"},{"startTime":2456.166,"endTime":2457.833,"body":"something a little broader."},{"startTime":2457.833,"endTime":2458.958,"body":"We don't create friction."},{"startTime":2461.666,"endTime":2462.166,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2462.708,"endTime":2463.125,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2463.125,"endTime":2464.958,"body":"Team belonging, I love that."},{"startTime":2464.958,"endTime":2466.541,"body":"And it relates really"},{"startTime":2466.541,"endTime":2467.416,"body":"strongly to performance."},{"startTime":2470.25,"endTime":2472.041,"body":"If you feel like you don't belong,"},{"startTime":2472.041,"endTime":2474.083,"body":"maybe the first time a"},{"startTime":2474.083,"endTime":2475.833,"body":"Dutch fan or US fan kind of puts"},{"startTime":2475.833,"endTime":2477.333,"body":"on a shirt and is like going and"},{"startTime":2477.333,"endTime":2479.458,"body":"sitting in the fan section or a"},{"startTime":2479.458,"endTime":2481.125,"body":"player is walking into the locker room."},{"startTime":2481.125,"endTime":2482.375,"body":"To an established team,"},{"startTime":2483.375,"endTime":2484.833,"body":"there's a lot of social monitoring"},{"startTime":2484.833,"endTime":2485.75,"body":"that's going to happen."},{"startTime":2485.75,"endTime":2487.041,"body":"We're a social species,"},{"startTime":2488.0,"endTime":2489.583,"body":"we're always managing our impressions"},{"startTime":2489.583,"endTime":2491.583,"body":"and we're managing our relationships."},{"startTime":2491.583,"endTime":2493.208,"body":"And that takes a lot of energy."},{"startTime":2493.208,"endTime":2493.541,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2493.541,"endTime":2494.708,"body":"Focusing on what people are doing."},{"startTime":2494.708,"endTime":2495.625,"body":"What do I need to do here?"},{"startTime":2495.625,"endTime":2496.791,"body":"How do I fit in?"},{"startTime":2496.791,"endTime":2498.25,"body":"What's the hierarchy?"},{"startTime":2498.25,"endTime":2500.791,"body":"There's a lot of nuance to all that."},{"startTime":2501.458,"endTime":2502.625,"body":"If you can get past that."},{"startTime":2502.625,"endTime":2504.375,"body":"And that usually takes time, building"},{"startTime":2504.375,"endTime":2506.625,"body":"some familiarity and you feel like you"},{"startTime":2506.625,"endTime":2508.041,"body":"belong, that there's a trust there,"},{"startTime":2508.041,"endTime":2509.458,"body":"you kind of let go of that."},{"startTime":2509.458,"endTime":2513.708,"body":"The more creativity can come out physiologically."},{"startTime":2513.708,"endTime":2514.791,"body":"This is what I talk a lot"},{"startTime":2514.791,"endTime":2517.041,"body":"about with athletes bodies."},{"startTime":2517.833,"endTime":2519.541,"body":"It can relax a little more,"},{"startTime":2520.083,"endTime":2521.5,"body":"a little bit more of a relaxed state,"},{"startTime":2521.5,"endTime":2523.791,"body":"more creativity can come out,"},{"startTime":2523.791,"endTime":2525.708,"body":"more expression of yourself,"},{"startTime":2525.708,"endTime":2527.375,"body":"that individuality."},{"startTime":2527.375,"endTime":2529.291,"body":"So belonging is really a huge thing"},{"startTime":2529.833,"endTime":2532.583,"body":"that actively these coaches"},{"startTime":2532.583,"endTime":2533.541,"body":"are working on,"},{"startTime":2534.333,"endTime":2535.708,"body":"kind of creating in their environment."},{"startTime":2537.083,"endTime":2538.916,"body":"And that the players really are trying"},{"startTime":2538.916,"endTime":2540.5,"body":"to manage and feel at times."},{"startTime":2542.25,"endTime":2542.75,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2542.75,"endTime":2544.541,"body":"So there's a beautiful positive"},{"startTime":2544.541,"endTime":2548.208,"body":"element of identity that if"},{"startTime":2548.208,"endTime":2550.5,"body":"I belong to the identity of Ajax"},{"startTime":2550.5,"endTime":2555.833,"body":"or to the identity of the Golden Ball podcast,"},{"startTime":2555.833,"endTime":2559.625,"body":"I feel part of it and I can,"},{"startTime":2559.625,"endTime":2563.708,"body":"can much easier express myself."},{"startTime":2564.916,"endTime":2569.291,"body":"And it is also fun to be part of something,"},{"startTime":2572.041,"endTime":2576.0,"body":"and in teams like PSG, Paris Saint-Germain"},{"startTime":2576.0,"endTime":2578.125,"body":"that they have an identity,"},{"startTime":2578.125,"endTime":2580.291,"body":"they have adopted a new identity"},{"startTime":2580.291,"endTime":2584.041,"body":"since a couple of years when Luis Enrique came,"},{"startTime":2584.041,"endTime":2586.583,"body":"that everyone was part of the team"},{"startTime":2586.583,"endTime":2589.625,"body":"that needed to defend and be offensive."},{"startTime":2589.625,"endTime":2592.166,"body":"And the players that didn't match"},{"startTime":2592.166,"endTime":2594.458,"body":"that identity, like Mbappe,"},{"startTime":2595.25,"endTime":2596.083,"body":"went on"},{"startTime":2596.083,"endTime":2599.708,"body":"and Mbappe can become massively successful,"},{"startTime":2599.708,"endTime":2603.375,"body":"but his identity didn't match the identity"},{"startTime":2603.375,"endTime":2605.25,"body":"that the coach wanted to play."},{"startTime":2605.25,"endTime":2607.0,"body":"And so belonging didn't happen"},{"startTime":2607.0,"endTime":2608.958,"body":"and team played it and happen."},{"startTime":2610.291,"endTime":2611.666,"body":"And that of course is something"},{"startTime":2611.666,"endTime":2614.833,"body":"for the individual to make decisions."},{"startTime":2614.833,"endTime":2617.958,"body":"Do I comply, do I do what the group"},{"startTime":2617.958,"endTime":2619.833,"body":"needs me to belong?"},{"startTime":2619.833,"endTime":2621.375,"body":"And to what extent is that"},{"startTime":2621.375,"endTime":2623.208,"body":"a true expression of who I am."},{"startTime":2623.208,"endTime":2628.125,"body":"Or do I feel more drawn into"},{"startTime":2628.125,"endTime":2630.458,"body":"individual expression and that"},{"startTime":2630.458,"endTime":2632.541,"body":"there's no one fit for it."},{"startTime":2633.916,"endTime":2634.166,"body":"No."},{"startTime":2634.166,"endTime":2637.625,"body":"And I bet that the French team will,"},{"startTime":2637.625,"endTime":2643.541,"body":"will favor Mbappe's personal style at this World cup."},{"startTime":2644.583,"endTime":2647.041,"body":"And he might very well become"},{"startTime":2647.041,"endTime":2648.25,"body":"the star of the tournament."},{"startTime":2648.291,"endTime":2649.083,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2649.083,"endTime":2652.041,"body":"I think of roles and responsibilities"},{"startTime":2652.041,"endTime":2653.5,"body":"and team culture in general."},{"startTime":2653.5,"endTime":2654.833,"body":"Kind of knowing your role,"},{"startTime":2655.5,"endTime":2656.75,"body":"what your responsibilities are"},{"startTime":2656.75,"endTime":2657.875,"body":"and how those shift."},{"startTime":2657.875,"endTime":2658.375,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2658.375,"endTime":2661.75,"body":"And coaches are actively kind of"},{"startTime":2661.75,"endTime":2663.666,"body":"encouraging people to take on roles"},{"startTime":2663.666,"endTime":2666.25,"body":"that are maybe less familiar to them or less wanted."},{"startTime":2666.875,"endTime":2670.625,"body":"A lot of times in youth sport you want"},{"startTime":2670.625,"endTime":2672.166,"body":"to be the striker, you want to be,"},{"startTime":2672.166,"endTime":2674.625,"body":"the playmaker, and eventually,"},{"startTime":2674.625,"endTime":2675.916,"body":"hey, that's not working out."},{"startTime":2675.916,"endTime":2677.041,"body":"But you can be this position,"},{"startTime":2677.041,"endTime":2678.583,"body":"you can do this, right."},{"startTime":2678.583,"endTime":2680.0,"body":"There's different adjustments."},{"startTime":2680.0,"endTime":2681.125,"body":"And do you feel comfortable"},{"startTime":2681.125,"endTime":2681.916,"body":"adjusting to that."},{"startTime":2681.916,"endTime":2683.541,"body":"Can you, can you not."},{"startTime":2684.083,"endTime":2686.791,"body":"Also plays into identity."},{"startTime":2687.541,"endTime":2690.375,"body":"I want to mention briefly about"},{"startTime":2690.375,"endTime":2692.333,"body":"going back to belonging again,"},{"startTime":2692.333,"endTime":2694.458,"body":"because I think this is something"},{"startTime":2694.458,"endTime":2695.416,"body":"I saw a lot in"},{"startTime":2695.416,"endTime":2698.25,"body":"professional sport culture is I think"},{"startTime":2698.25,"endTime":2700.375,"body":"there's a lot of belonging wounds."},{"startTime":2700.375,"endTime":2703.125,"body":"We join a team, we're social animals."},{"startTime":2703.125,"endTime":2704.333,"body":"Naturally, we're hopeful that"},{"startTime":2704.333,"endTime":2705.916,"body":"we can kind of connect,"},{"startTime":2705.916,"endTime":2707.75,"body":"feel appreciated and belong."},{"startTime":2708.291,"endTime":2709.5,"body":"But you see this kind of"},{"startTime":2709.5,"endTime":2711.5,"body":"professionalism or cynicism develop,"},{"startTime":2713.083,"endTime":2715.041,"body":"of like, oh, I'm in here for myself,"},{"startTime":2715.041,"endTime":2716.541,"body":"no one really cares."},{"startTime":2716.541,"endTime":2717.5,"body":"And it's kind of true."},{"startTime":2717.5,"endTime":2717.791,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2717.791,"endTime":2719.0,"body":"Like, people select you based"},{"startTime":2719.0,"endTime":2720.375,"body":"on your performance and you could be"},{"startTime":2720.375,"endTime":2722.25,"body":"out of the team or moving teams."},{"startTime":2722.25,"endTime":2724.333,"body":"But I think it's really about a wound"},{"startTime":2724.958,"endTime":2726.666,"body":"to that belonging feeling"},{"startTime":2726.666,"endTime":2728.333,"body":"that people need to express it."},{"startTime":2728.333,"endTime":2729.25,"body":"It hurts when you're"},{"startTime":2729.25,"endTime":2730.333,"body":"deselected from a team."},{"startTime":2730.333,"endTime":2732.333,"body":"You want to be part of a culture."},{"startTime":2732.333,"endTime":2734.458,"body":"And so I invite people to talk about,"},{"startTime":2734.458,"endTime":2736.25,"body":"you know, those feelings of like,"},{"startTime":2736.25,"endTime":2738.666,"body":"yeah, how did it feel when"},{"startTime":2738.666,"endTime":2740.208,"body":"you weren't included in this?"},{"startTime":2741.0,"endTime":2742.083,"body":"And, really acknowledge that"},{"startTime":2742.083,"endTime":2743.166,"body":"that's part of being human"},{"startTime":2743.166,"endTime":2746.125,"body":"is having these desires"},{"startTime":2746.125,"endTime":2748.416,"body":"to belong and feeling accepted."},{"startTime":2748.416,"endTime":2750.291,"body":"And when that doesn't work out,"},{"startTime":2750.291,"endTime":2751.0,"body":"it can hurt."},{"startTime":2752.125,"endTime":2752.75,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2752.75,"endTime":2755.041,"body":"I hear a couple of times"},{"startTime":2755.041,"endTime":2757.541,"body":"you bring up this sense of heartbreak"},{"startTime":2757.541,"endTime":2759.458,"body":"and how heartbreak"},{"startTime":2759.458,"endTime":2762.625,"body":"breaks open identity that allows"},{"startTime":2762.625,"endTime":2765.916,"body":"for a new person to emerge"},{"startTime":2765.916,"endTime":2767.708,"body":"and that sometimes heartbreak"},{"startTime":2767.708,"endTime":2770.541,"body":"is the identity breaker."},{"startTime":2771.833,"endTime":2774.791,"body":"That's also a topic that we will"},{"startTime":2774.791,"endTime":2777.75,"body":"discuss in a later episode,"},{"startTime":2777.75,"endTime":2780.0,"body":"how to deal with setbacks and losses."},{"startTime":2782.0,"endTime":2785.833,"body":"Just to wrap this episode up."},{"startTime":2786.541,"endTime":2788.416,"body":"Are there any final thoughts?"},{"startTime":2789.25,"endTime":2791.791,"body":"Well, the thought that comes up is,"},{"startTime":2791.791,"endTime":2793.333,"body":"look at your dream tonight"},{"startTime":2794.041,"endTime":2795.708,"body":"and see which character"},{"startTime":2797.083,"endTime":2799.0,"body":"comes by and what does it do."},{"startTime":2799.583,"endTime":2802.958,"body":"And would you say that is part of you"},{"startTime":2802.958,"endTime":2804.541,"body":"or that is not you?"},{"startTime":2806.541,"endTime":2808.75,"body":"And then, after that it is,"},{"startTime":2809.916,"endTime":2811.666,"body":"it does show up in your dream."},{"startTime":2813.5,"endTime":2815.416,"body":"So think about that."},{"startTime":2817.416,"endTime":2818.125,"body":"That's great."},{"startTime":2818.125,"endTime":2824.875,"body":"And I'd say, yeah, getting out of our cognitions,"},{"startTime":2824.875,"endTime":2826.5,"body":"our thoughts about who we are,"},{"startTime":2826.5,"endTime":2829.125,"body":"and sometimes listening to our bodies,"},{"startTime":2829.125,"endTime":2830.083,"body":"our emotions,"},{"startTime":2830.083,"endTime":2832.0,"body":"what our dreams or images might say."},{"startTime":2832.0,"endTime":2832.25,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2832.25,"endTime":2833.125,"body":"Those are all ways"},{"startTime":2833.833,"endTime":2836.708,"body":"to get to know the shadow parts of ourselves"},{"startTime":2836.708,"endTime":2838.75,"body":"and parts of ourselves we normally"},{"startTime":2838.75,"endTime":2841.333,"body":"don't privilege in our identities."},{"startTime":2842.333,"endTime":2844.083,"body":"And they can be real resources"},{"startTime":2844.083,"endTime":2846.208,"body":"for everyone going forward."},{"startTime":2846.208,"endTime":2847.916,"body":"Give them a lot of vitality"},{"startTime":2847.916,"endTime":2852.75,"body":"and a lot of skills in adapting to life."},{"startTime":2852.75,"endTime":2856.0,"body":"Yeah. And to spin on that."},{"startTime":2856.0,"endTime":2858.083,"body":"Often shadow work,"},{"startTime":2858.083,"endTime":2859.875,"body":"it sounds so technical,"},{"startTime":2859.875,"endTime":2861.833,"body":"like integrate your shadow"},{"startTime":2861.833,"endTime":2863.875,"body":"or do something with your shadow."},{"startTime":2863.875,"endTime":2865.791,"body":"But what it really comes down to is"},{"startTime":2865.791,"endTime":2868.416,"body":"can you tolerate when this part of you"},{"startTime":2868.416,"endTime":2870.25,"body":"or this experience comes up,"},{"startTime":2870.25,"endTime":2872.5,"body":"and can you tolerate it in your body."},{"startTime":2872.5,"endTime":2874.333,"body":"When you identify as this"},{"startTime":2874.333,"endTime":2875.541,"body":"harmonious person,"},{"startTime":2875.541,"endTime":2878.166,"body":"can you tolerate aggression in your body"},{"startTime":2878.166,"endTime":2880.333,"body":"without acting out immediately?"},{"startTime":2881.125,"endTime":2886.75,"body":"So to bring that into a suggestion is"},{"startTime":2886.75,"endTime":2888.583,"body":"to see what you can stand,"},{"startTime":2889.458,"endTime":2890.083,"body":"in your body."},{"startTime":2891.916,"endTime":2893.041,"body":"Well, thanks for today."},{"startTime":2895.041,"endTime":2895.708,"body":"Thank you."}]}