Kindness Gnomes & Second Chances with Katie MacLean-Peters

Katie MacLean-Peters describes herself as a survivor. But in the last decade, her life has truly begun. In this conversation, Katie shares how curiosity, tenacity, therapy, and a healthy dose of whimsy led her to reinvent herself in her 60s, including returning to college to pursue a lifelong dream. We talk about learning Spanish for her cat, the unexpected joy of hiding kindness gnomes for strangers to find, and what happens when you push past the trauma and finally give yourself permission to embrace joy. 

Find Katie:

• Insta: @undercoverkindnessgnomes
• TikTok: @OneRubySlipper
• Undercover Kindness Gnomes

Find Broadway Bob: 

• Insta: @TheBroadwayBob
• TikTok: @BroadwayBob
• BobBullen.com
• Email

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to Later in Life, a podcast about reinvention, second act, and the courage to begin again. I'm your host, Bob Bullen. One of my favorite things about starting this podcast has been discovering just how many incredible stories are out there. Today's guest is especially meaningful because Katie McLean Peters is the first person who reached out to me to be on an episode. She heard an episode of Later in Life, reached out to me, and shared a little bit about her story. And as I read her email, I was completely captivated. Now Katie has a remarkable way with words. She has a wonderful story, and she has a big story to tell. And she radiates warmth, joy, curiosity, and what she calls a large amount of whimsy. What's extraordinary is that those qualities were hard-won. So a quick content note before we begin. During our conversation, we briefly discussed child abuse, predatory behavior, and a few other things in that realm. It doesn't get graphic, but if those topics are difficult for you, I want to let you know before we started. So Katie's life has taken so many turns. She's been homeless, served as a naval hospital corpsman, worked as a radio DJ, founded a nonprofit, raised five children, and the list goes on. Though through it all, she carried shame for much of her life. It wasn't until her 50s that she truly learned to like herself. And now, at 63 years old, she's doing something she dreamed about for more than four decades. Going back to college. Now her story isn't just about education. It's about giving herself permission to pursue joy. It's about letting go of who you thought you were supposed to be and embracing who you really are. It's not letting trauma define you. Now a fun behind the scenes note before we jump in. Katie's joining me in this episode from her local public library because the heat wave we've been having in the Midwest is unbearable and her house doesn't have air conditioning. So of course we had a few technology hiccups getting connected, which we referenced in the episode, but thankfully everything got ironed out because this ended up being one of my favorite conversations I've had in this podcast to date. I think you're going to love Katie as much as I did. Here's my conversation with Katie McLean Peters. Hi, nice to meet you. You as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

I am at the library because we live in the steamy armpit of Michigan and don't have air conditioning at home.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Oh gosh. Well, I'm glad you're in a place that you can at least cool off a little bit while we have this discussion. So, Katie, I'm going to ask you, you've had a big life based on that email you sent to me, which I'm sure was just a fraction of who you are. How would you describe yourself as you are now to someone?

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Well, I think the easy answer is that I'm a survivor, but life is much more nuanced than that. I am a deeply curious person, and that has led me to some really wonderful places, but also some not great places.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Well, talk talk to me a little bit around you'd mentioned, you know, 18-year-old Katie. Oh, and yeah, take me back to 18-year-old Katie. What did you think life was going to look like for you?

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Well, I didn't have a lot of hopes or dreams at 18. Um, I grew up in a home that was very unsafe with a father who was a pedophile and an alcoholic. Those were all the things, those were the things he was in the home. In the community, he was a great guy, really handsome and gregarious and funny, and everybody loved him, and he was involved in the community in many ways, part of the Chamber of Commerce, and he was a reserved police officer. He was president of the Little League. He did, I mean, everyone knew who he was and knew him as a great guy, but in the home, he was a monster. And it took my mother 18 years to leave him. She married him a week after her 17th birthday.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

And he um he was about eight years older than her. This was in the 50s, and women just stayed married to monsters because they didn't have a lot of options. Yeah, but so it was um, let's see, 1971 when she finally left him. And um she and I shared an apartment. We shared a bedroom and a bed, actually, because she was so broke. Women weren't allowed legally to own property yet then. Um they had only just gotten the right to have a bank account in their own name.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

We lived in this tiny apartment, and when I was 10, one day she just didn't wake up. And I woke up and she was gone, and there were people in our living room that I didn't know because she she had not felt well the night before. So I slept in my brother's bedroom. So I slept in his bedroom that night to give mom some rest. And um I made her a bowl of Campbell's chicken noodle soup and went to bed. And then when I woke up, she was gone. Um and the people didn't they they wouldn't tell me what was happening. Um, my mother at the time was engaged to a man um who was he was there in the living room, and my sister was there. I hadn't seen her in over a year. She was 10 years older than I. All she told me was mom was gone and I had to be a little trooper. And um I also then had to go live with my father. Oh, it was um well, first we tried my sister and her husband tried moving into the apartment, but he was physically abusive. And um, I ended up in the emergency room with a broken collarbone. And um the police called my dad, who um, as a reserve police officer, knew all of these cops, and um he had to sort of figure out what to do with me because he didn't want me full-time. He wanted to be in every other Sunday dad. Living with him from 10 until I was 18 was um there are chunks of that time period I don't remember, Bob. And I I think that that is my brain protecting me. Um, through lots of therapy, I've begun to remember some things, and I I understand why my brain was shielding me for so long.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Well, by the time I was 18, I I graduated high school at 17 and started community college at Grossmont Junior College in San Diego, and I was in my first semester there when somebody walked up to me, said we had mutual friends, and said God told him that we were supposed to be married.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

And I said, Did God tell you I was supposed to go along with this? Because I don't know. Yeah, I started college wanting to be a literature major, I wanted to teach literature at a college level. I left school that semester. I married that boy that year, and we moved to his family's farm in DeCalb, Illinois. I was willing to go because it meant getting away from my father. And then I realized I kind of married somebody very similar to my father.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yeah. And in your in your note to me, you mentioned that there came a point which was kind of a a tipping point for you. You finally had a bit of your life back to yourself, and this this boy decided that Jesus was his calling and decided to marry Jesus essentially. He did. And and and you found yourself homeless, I believe, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:21

After that, I I was. Um We had uh moved back from Illinois to San Diego, and uh he decided that he was supposed to go to seminary and become a pastor, and that he had to do it alone, that his devotion to God could not be interrupted by anything. And I was an interruption. Um, so there I was. I think I was 20 at the time. Um, I didn't have any education, I didn't have any job experience because the time that I was married to him, my job was having babies. And what he didn't know is that uh I thought, oh hell no, I'm still a kid, I'm not having babies. And I started taking birth control pills uh without him knowing it.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Good for you.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

So thank you. So I I guess that was a bit of self-preservation that I didn't realize I had then. So he left. I didn't have any family. Um, my father that year had told me that, you know, as far as he was concerned, he had no more children and don't call or contact him or send a letter or drop by. He he didn't want to see anybody. After my my mother died and I went to live with my dad, um, my brother went to jail for sexually assaulting me. And about a year later, my dad told me that he had gotten in a fight in prison and was killed. And then shortly after that, he told me that my sister had been in a car accident and died. And I forgot to mention this too. After my mom's funeral, again, I never knew how she died or what happened. And his stand on it was, she's she's dead, she's gone, you don't have a mother, you're not to talk about her ever again. We're moving forward. So I never knew what happened, but I also never had any pictures of her or things to remember her by, and I wasn't allowed to talk about her. So I didn't get to grieve for many, many decades.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

And he then after after the funeral, I never saw my grandparents or aunts or uncles or cousins ever again. They all disappeared. And at 10, I didn't understand how weird that was. But he was very much just isolating me from everything.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

And when he told you about your sister and your brother, that's what he told you. Was that true about your sister and your brother?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Well, um, I think I was 21 when I went to join a spa in San Diego, uh a gym, very fancy place called Spa Lady. And I I walked in to put my things in the locker, and I heard a voice that stopped me cold. And so I walked around the bank of lockers, and there was my sister.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

I I lost my mind. Um, I grabbed my things and ran and I drove and sobbed for probably an hour.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

How long was this after she had technically you've been told that she got in a car accident? How many years have passed?

SPEAKER_02 11:41

This would have been about 10 years later.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Oh wow. So you were you were in your 30s?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

I was in my 20s. He told me when I was 12.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Um that she had died. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Um, I went back and uh I talked to her, and uh I think it it's important to remember that we all three of us grew up in a terrible, terrible situation, and that we're all deeply wounded. Karen struggled with alcoholism and drug abuse for a long time. She did have a car accident and had a traumatic brain injury from it, but she was very much alive. And then she told me that my brother also was very much alive and living in Las Vegas. He's not somebody that I ever wanted to have a relationship with again because of the nature of how he hurt me. Sure. But Karen sort of came in and out of my life over the years and then disappeared for good. And I found her two years ago in San Diego and went out to visit her. And Bob, she is 74 and still looks like a tiny, adorable little beach bunny. It's so not fair, it's not fair. Um but she is the kindest soul. She's she is love and light, and talking with her is difficult because she um she forgets a lot of things. She's had a stroke in addition to the TBI.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Um, but she never forgets love. And um I I have been so honored to have a relationship with her in whatever way is possible, you know, at this point in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

That's a beautiful, I guess, uh light at the end of that very dark tunnel.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

I mean, thank you for sharing that with me. And I mean, it sounds like your life could be several novels in terms of the life experience that you've had. And I was looking at the things that you've sent to me in terms of what you did after you got out of that relationship with that guy. And you I'm gonna read some of the things you had here. You had you were an acting teacher with adults with disabilities, you were homeless twice, a radio DJ, a terrible friend, a mother of five, a naval hospital corpsman, an actor, an abysmal cook, a cafe manager, a hopelessly bad waitress, tour guide at Universal. Of all the things that are listed here, give me one or two that were like your favorite memories.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Being a tour guide at Universal Studios was so much fun. It was just like playing every day. The training was um 40 hours of learning facts about Hollywood and the studios themselves. And during that week, those of us in the class just became very close friends. And then the final day, we had to actually go on a mock tour and to give the entire two and a half hour tour, and we were graded on that by our supervisors. And I remember us all sitting around in a little um like the staff room afterwards with everybody's fingers crossed, and they'd call one of us into a room at a time. And um, it was so nerve-wracking, but my God, it was fun. It was so fun. We would we would go in the morning and we would do our tours, and then afterwards, everybody would go next door to Tony Roma's, where we would sit in the bar and drink margaritas and fall off our bar stools laughing. It was just, it was like summer camp, sort of for for adults. It was so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

I've had people who have done kind of similar jobs and they always talk about that time as just like one of the best memories, mainly for the people that they were kind of ensconced with during that time.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Tell me a little bit around undercover kindness gnomes.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Oh, yes. Um, that is a fun project I started during the uh pandemic because I'm a fiber artist and I do needle felting, and I had started making these cute little gnomes. And in a um a Facebook post in our town, I lived in Midland at the time, so it was Ask Midland. There was a mother there with two little boys, one of them had special needs, and she was asking for puzzles because they had been through all of the puzzles in their home and um they just needed more, and she could not afford them. And we, in a fit of thinking we were gonna be a puzzle family a couple of years earlier, had bought a million really cool puzzles. So we had like a closet full of them, and I was like, lady, let me give these to you. Then when I went to drop them off on her front porch, I had a gnome in my car, and I thought, I'm just gonna stick this little guy in there with a note. And so I wrote a note and said that his name was Pip the puzzle gnome and that he loved doing puzzles, but he was sort of a trickster and you had to watch out for him because he liked to steal the pieces. So if your puzzle was missing a piece, you had to ask Pip where it was. So the next morning I get this voice memo from her and this little tiny boy saying, Thank you for the puzzles. And um, she said, Listen, I love you and I want to slap you because he loves and believes in this little gnome so much that my job is to watch Pip while Pip watches him do puzzles, and I can't do anything. I have to make sure Pip is not stealing the puzzle pieces. And I was like, Well, okay. So then I started leaving the gnomes in little free libraries in our town, and I left one in a playground at the top of a slide with a little note that just said, You are doing a great job. And then I giggled all the way home. I was like, I can't, I'm so excited that someone is gonna find that. And it was meant just for them. And I was like, wow, how fun would it be? I wish I could feel like this every day. And then I thought, why can't I feel like this every day? So that was how we started. And now there is a website, it's kindnessgnomes.com. There's a little button on the home page where you request a gnome, and we will send it to anybody anywhere in the world for free. And the only thing we ask is that you leave it somewhere in your community for a stranger to find. And each gnome comes with a little note that's got affirmations on it telling people that the world is a better place because they're here. And we have to date sent 524 gnomes to five different countries and 27 states in the US. And we have um just last February uh got registered as a 501c3. So we're an official nonprofit now with a real actual board of directors, just like grown-up people have. And um it's it's been one of the greatest joys of my life.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

No, this nonprofit of like spreading random joy and whimsy to people. Where did this come from? I mean, is this always like you mentioned, you know, the self-preservation that you had at like 18 years old that you didn't realize you had? Where did you discover your joy? Because it sounds like someone in your situation and and background could easily break someone, but you seem like someone who not only endured but came out with a slice of whimsy and joy still in you. Where do you think that came from? How did you preserve that?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Don't get me wrong, Bob. My twenties were dark and self-destructive. I was a mess in my twenties. I didn't really learn to appreciate who I am as a person until within the last 10 years, probably. And I'm 63 now. But my sister's theory is that it was our mom's influence. She was a really gifted seamstress, made her own clothing, and made clothing for people in the community and donated it. We, you know, growing up in San Diego, there are so many military bases there, and every holiday there were strangers at our table. And I don't know where my mom found them, but there were always sailors or soldiers or marines who were far away from home on a holiday who became part of our family for that day. And I mean, up until the day she died, my mother still received cards from some of these guys. And she was that, she was just a giving, lovely person. And she only had 10 years to to pour that into me. Um, and I have realized that those 10 years were were enough, and that everything that I do, I just want to make her proud.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

That's beautiful. And I love that that your mother's still with you, and it, you know, you never lost that, even though you didn't have pictures or physical memory of her, she's still in your DNA somewhere rattling around. What between that period of you know your 20s up until your late 50s, who were you? If you were to go by decade, like your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, how would you describe those phases? And what did you what did you discover about yourself along those points?

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Well, in my 30s, my early 30s, I started having children uh with a man that I married when I was in the Navy. They just kept coming. One baby after the they just kept showing up. Um people say you know what causes that, right? And and I do, but I think they're wrong. They just kept coming. Um, I had five children in 10 years and was I was the stay at home mom while my husband. Went to nursing school and then you know built his career in cardiac nursing and raising five kids.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

But I had not been to therapy. And so I I have regrets about the way I parented because I did it out of fear a lot. I have forgiven myself for that. I know that I did the very best that I could. And I think that my children never spent a day wondering if they were loved and adored.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

So that feels like Sounds like you did your job.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

I I think that I did. Um, but I never learned how to take care of myself.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

And then I was in my late 40s when we went through a divorce and it was super ugly. And it went on for two years, a little over two years. And um, it was hard on the kids. And I took a good number of years healing after that divorce, and um, and learning that it is it's okay for me to do things for me, and that it's not selfish, it's actually healthy, which was the exact opposite of what I'd always believed.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah. Your 20s, you were a mess, your 30s, you were a mother.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Your 40s, you were going through a separation that was kind of taking up a lot of your time and energy. Yeah. What happened in your 50s that made you was it was it therapy that helped you?

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Much of it was therapy. Um, it also I am married today to a man who is the best man I've ever known, who um has told me for the last almost 13 years that the only thing he wants to see is that I feel independent. To feel that I can take on the world and have his backing and support. For a good five years when we started dating, I was sure there was an asshole waiting to come out.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Oh, sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

I would say that to him all the time. Um this is this is really nice, Dave, but I know there's an asshole in there. Just I'm I'm just waiting. I'm prayer preparing myself for it. And then I learned that that's not what the universe wanted for me. The universe wants me to be happy, that that my being a whole, fulfilled, vital person is absolutely within my grasp. And I I never understood joy or true, honest in-your-gut happiness before. Much of that is being properly medicated for the first time in my life, um, and therapy, but also having someone who sip just genuinely wants to see me succeed.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah, I think you have to have all of that therapy, medication, and a support system all need to go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

And um, I think a lot of people only like think one of them. Like, you know, people growing up in my parents' generation were like, we can handle it ourselves. We don't need to get outside influence. And you'd only go on medication if it was really bad, or you didn't tell anyone about it. It was super secret. Right. So I'm so glad that you that you have that and that you're finding who you are. And that kind of takes you to where you are today, joining me from a public library. And you're on spring, you're on summer break right now from college. Tell me.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

No, I'm taking summer classes. I just finished my first one, Bob. It was a um college composition class. And uh, let's back up, let's back up.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

What what are you going to school for?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Linguistics. Linguistics. Ultimately, I want a master's degree in sociolinguistics by the time I'm 73.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

I love that. So tell me all about what was the impetus for deciding to go back to school. What sparked that idea? And then what steps did you take to do it?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Okay. Um, I have always loved a classroom setting all my life. I am the weirdo who loves studying and writing papers and taking notes and taking tests.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

And I just I bet your notes, I have a feeling about you that your notes are probably pristine. Are they like, do you have beautiful penmanship?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

I have really nice penmanship with doodles in the margins.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

I somehow knew that. That's lovely. Go on.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

I I retired um almost two years ago now and have sort of been trying to figure out what I want to do. And undercover kindness gnomes is my, you know, first priority. And it has gotten to the point where, oh, I can um I can branch out a little bit and do some more things. And I have done a lot of community theater in the past several years and made the decision last year to cut back on that as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

What's can I ask quickly what are some of your favorite roles that you've done?

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Um, well, I I don't know if you're familiar with the cherry orchard. Oh, yeah. I played Fears, the 80-year-old man servant in the house. Which was um, in fact, I I have played a man on stage maybe more times than I've played a woman. I do I do a lot of Shakespeare and I always get cast as the quirky man role. And I mean, I do you love Shakespeare? Oh god, I love Shakespeare so much. Yeah, so much.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yeah, that's the mark of a true artist to an actor to be able to do that. So kudos to you and doing pants rolls.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Um, that's that's fun. So you decided to cut back on that and and and make time for another priority, which was school.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yes, and this is gonna sound um crazy, and I want you to understand that I am not crazy, I just have a very overdeveloped sense of whimsy. I got a cat a couple of years ago who was seven, and she was terrified and lived under my bed and would not come out. She wouldn't eat or use the litter box unless we were downstairs.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

So I began lying on the floor next to the bed and talking to her gently and singing to her. She wouldn't respond. So then I started talking to her in Spanish and she came right to me. And I thought that came from a Spanish-speaking household. She must have. And I well, I was fluent in Spanish when I was a little kid. I don't didn't remember much. And um, I thought, if I'm gonna connect with this cat, I have to learn Spanish. So I took a Spanish class at the community college, and it made me I I just giggled every day at how fun it was to be on campus. And and when I tell people I went back to college for my cat, they're like, you need to be institutionalized, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Oh, they don't have I I love that. I fully approve because people sometimes take Spanish just because they think there's gonna be hireable and they never use it. You actually used it.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

I did use it. I still sing songs to her in Spanish and talk to the side.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Did it help her get out from under the bed?

SPEAKER_02 29:39

She is just a normal part of the family now. It's incredible. But my thought with taking that class was that's the easiest, most accessible place for me to go and get a good crash course in Spanish so I can remember, right? So that was two years ago. And then about six months ago, I was thinking about that and I was like, God, I loved being in that class. I wish I could just I wish I could do it. And I wish I had gotten a degree like I had started to all those years ago. And and it was sort of like the thing with the gnomes, like, well, wait a minute, why don't I? I mean, I can. I can do that. There is a a program in Michigan called the Michigan Reconnect program. And if you don't have a college degree and are over, I think 25, um, you can go to college for free. Really? So yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

I'm I don't think that's that's that's a great program to be aware of.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Yes, it's Michigan Reconnect.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

And I am so wildly grateful uh to be able to go to school. And I thought, I am too old to get a degree. And then I thought, well, that's pretty much bullshit because I'm gonna be 70 or 73 anyway. Why not be 70 or 73 with a degree? Why not be 73 with a bunch of degrees? I registered for college, and I have to tell you that Delta College in Michigan has been so good to me because I'm an old lady who doesn't understand technology, as evidenced by my trying to get on this Zoom call. And they have been wildly generous with their help and encouragement and support. It has been such a great experience.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Oh, I love that. So, how many classes are you taking? Did you jump in full force or are you kind of taking it bit by bit?

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Or I started with they they call it the spring term, but it goes through the summer. Um, I started with two classes, uh, one after the other. So my um composition class just ended, and my American politics class starts next Monday. Um, guess what? Can I tell you this? Because I yesterday, well, first of all, the second day of my English class, I was in the bathroom crying. I felt like I couldn't do it. I was foolish to think I could. I didn't understand the technology, the platform that they use online for the classes. And it was so frustrating to me to be in a classroom where everybody else just knew what he meant when he was saying things and they got right into their computers and got to work. And I was like, I don't even know what that means. Like, I don't know what question to ask, even. But the woman sitting next to me at the end of class gave me her phone number and said, if you ever want a study partner or something, just you could give me a call. I would love that. And and she set the tone for that class, and everybody else in there just was so kind to me. They were absolutely lovely. And we got our grades last week. Um, I mean yesterday. Bob, I got an A in the class. Hooray! I I cried in the call.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Yeah, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

I opened it up my grades yesterday when I was in the car with a friend, and I saw that, and I was like, that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. I was so excited.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Congratulations. And I mean, I would have a problem. Like my um, I was talking to my friend before this, and she was in the previous episode, and she's sort of going back to college, and she's my age, I'm 46. And she was saying how different it is now, just from a technology standpoint. And we're both technology savvy, but she's like, that is so different than when we were in school, like in the like in the late 90s, early 2000s, when the internet was just like this curiosity. Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like going back. If I went to school in my 60s, I'm sure 20 years from now, I'm sure it'd be like, now you have to like talk to a hologram or something.

unknown 33:48

Like, I don't know what I answered.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

So good for you for navigating that whole challenge and no and the people who are there to support you. That's yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Wonderful, wonderful. Um, in the fall, I will have a full schedule though. I wanted to ease in this summer.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

What surprised you beyond the technology stuff? What surprised you about classes in school and learning in a good way or maybe a bad way? But let's focus on the positive. What are what are the good things that you learned?

SPEAKER_02 34:17

No one treated me any differently because I could be their grandma. I was just another student in class learning the same stuff. And when we would get into groups to discuss things, I was just another student. And it was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

So, what uh what else have you learned? What else surprised you?

SPEAKER_02 34:39

College is a place that is, and I don't know if universities are set up like this, but the community college experience for me has been that there's so much help available, not just academically, but there's a an office of its belonging and something, diversity, equity, and inclusion. If I am at school and I'm hungry, then I can go to that office and say, Hey, could I get a meal? And they will give you two entrees, a dessert, and a drink. There are microwaves everywhere where you can heat up a meal. There's a food pantry for people who need help with their, you know, feeding their families. There are care closets where there are, you know, hygiene items just available to everybody. Um, there are no questions asked. It's it was astounding to me that there is community care. I I guess the name is in the college. It's a community college. The amount of mutual aid and care that that is available there was astounding to me. And I was, I it just made me feel like I'm in the right place with people who really care about other people.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

I love that because you know, community college. I think when I was growing up, it was like, oh, that's the people go who can't go to real college. Yes. Right. Yeah. And it's there's such a snobbery about it. I don't think that exists anymore because people know how much college costs, they see what the job market's like, they see how much student debt people have. You can get a really excellent education that's comparable or even better, because you probably have more one-on-one time with a professor.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

And and people who genuinely care about the art of teaching and learning. And it's fantastic that because a lot of people also, when they go back to school, they go online. And it sounds like you're going physically to a school. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

And that that was important to me too, because I yeah I saw my kids struggle with online learning during the pandemic.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

And I thought these are kids who are young and smart and have grown up with this technology, and it's hard for them. Yeah. So I can't imagine trying to do it myself.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Yeah. No kidding. No kidding. So when you look back at your 18-year-old self and you know who you are now, what's the piece of advice you would give yourself?

SPEAKER_02 37:05

I would tell her that she is so worthy of good things and that the trauma that she experienced does not have to define her for the rest of her existence. I wouldn't have believed me at 18 because that was all I knew.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

I wish that there had been someone in my life who knew what was going on in my home and helped. Um, I wish I had had the opportunity to get into therapy right when my mom died. I think that would have been transformational for me. Um, but I also would remind little me that there are so many things that we worry about in life that are inconsequential. I would try to encourage her to let things go more readily.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

And that's not to diminish the big stuff you went through. Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

The big stuff clearly, you know, that's something that it takes professional help to get through.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

And I think we came to this discussion, like talking about, you know, how you went to college later in life, but you had a transformation later in life that led to college.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

And a lot of that was falling in love with yourself again and figuring out who you were, which is a really beautiful story. And I think I think a lot of people are looking for that. They feel they've learned all they can or they feel this is it for me. And I guess my question for you is if someone were to come to you and say, It's too late in life for me, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Bullshit. If you are breathing, it is not too late. And sometimes people just need the right cheerleader. If they don't have the cheerleader within them, then they need somebody to cheer them along until they start believing in their um abilities and their capableness themselves.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

A common theme that I've heard talking, I've done about six of these episodes is it's important to do the things you want to do when you want to do them, but you have to surround yourself with people who are there to support you.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Because those you'll find a lot of times when you're going and transforming as a person, you have a lot of people like, Really? That's kind of cheesy, or is that the right thing to do? Or you're teaching, you're learning Spanish because you're a cat. You need to be locked up. You need to be people to say, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Yes, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

If you were to title the chapter of this phase of your life in a book, what would this chapter be called?

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Finally, joy.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

I mean, just looking at you, you look so peaceful. I mean, as soon as you leave the air conditioning, I'm sure you're gonna be miserable.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

But yes, I'm gonna be melting.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yes, yes, but you have been nothing but radiant and and like like just so positive, and I'm so happy for you that you found this phase in your life.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

That's so kind of you, Bob. Thank you. And and you know, I it's the very first time in my life that I can say, if I met me, I would really like me. I love that. I've never been able to say that before.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Well, Katie, it's been fabulous talking to you. I'm so sorry that I added a technological nightmare into your day, but you figured it out. We got there.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

I figured it out, we got there. I'm giving us both an A for today, Bob. A plus.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Katie. Now again, she reached out to me through a cold outreach. You can do the same if you have a story that you would like to share. I'd love to talk with you. My email is thebroadweb at gmail.com. Later in life, it's hosted, edited, and produced by me, Bob Bullen. Theme music by Rocky Patera, cover art by Rachel Choice. If you like what you're hearing, please consider giving it a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, which helps elevate this podcast for other people to find it. Thank you for listening. And remember, it's never too late.