Later in Life

A Well-Timed Comeback with Comedian Ron Popp

• Broadway Bob

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0:00 | 52:09

When I first met Ron Popp years ago, he was doing theatre in Chicago. Since then, I've watched him quietly reinvent himself. Ron started doing stand-up comedy in his 40s. Today, just months shy of 50, he's winning comedy competitions, regularly booking gigs, and building a career he never expected.

We talk about growing up gay in small Midwestern towns, finding humor in the experiences that shaped us, and why some of the best comedy comes from years of learning to protect yourself. Along the way, we take a very Gen X detour into the state of musical theatre, missing Broadway divas, and the art of a well-timed comeback.

More than anything, this is a conversation about finding your voice... and discovering it's never too late to use it.

Here's my conversation with Ron Popp.

Find Ron:

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SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Later in Life. I'm Bob Bullen. One of my favorite things about this podcast is reconnecting with people whose journeys I've been quietly following over the years. My guest today is Ron Pop. Someone I've first met back when I was reviewing Theater for Hobbit of Post, or HuffPop, as it's called now. I believe he was directing a show, I don't quite remember. I just remember meeting him and saying, Oh, this guy's this guy, he's got something special. And we stayed connected through social media, and over the years, I've watched him build something really remarkable. Ron started doing stand-up comedy in his 40s. And today, just a few months shy of turning 50, he is winning comedy competitions, regularly booking gigs, and embracing a side quest, which he's hesitant to call a career, because he never really imagined it for himself. Our conversation goes all over the place and in the best possible way. We talk about growing up gay in small towns, and while we both still have a deep affection for those communities and the people who call them home, and how often rural America is misunderstood, quite frankly. We somehow find ourselves in a wonderfully Gen X tangent about the state of musical theater and the disappearance of our great leading ladies and divas. And we spend a lot of time talking about comedy, finding your voice, discovering what makes you funny, and realizing that some of the strongest material comes from experiences you've spent decades learning to protect yourself from. And we also explore something you don't hear discussed very often. What it means to be a gay comedian in your 40s, and why there aren't many voices telling those stories. It's a conversation about reinvention, authenticity, and the unexpected ways life prepares you for the thing you're meant to do. Now here's my conversation with Ron Pop. Um tell me about your game room. What is this? Where are we right now?

SPEAKER_00

So I collect Superman.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. I also have a friend that's really into Superman. He'd be very jealous of this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then my husband collects Transformers. So we have this whole game room of uh just nerd that we And then we have the PlayStation and everything hooked up. So it's just our get a room of nerd.

SPEAKER_01

I have a friend who collects Transformers, and his is like they have a whole room devoted. Like I walk in and I was like, holy shit. Like, how do you dust this?

SPEAKER_00

It very took I just did mine. I've yeah, and it took a couple hours because you got to move everything. Some of it's like porcelain or old, and so yeah, you have to, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's been so long since we've like seen each other in person. I think the last time I saw you, well, the first memory I have of you is when you invited me back when I'm in my my reviewing and blogging days to a show that you had directed, I believe. Possibly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, god, that was a long time ago. Yeah, I know previous life. I always loved your because they were just very like laid back. Like you I I appreciate like I would equate it to like Roger Ebert, that even if he would see something he didn't like, he loved movies so much, he would could write a dissertation about it. That's kind of you in theater, and so I always appreciated your like zest for it, even though I'm sure you saw things that you liked, it didn't like or whatever, you would always just kind of I don't say man on the street because you're very knowledgeable about it, but it was just a very like, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Well, in a way I was kind of that. I mean, it's now that I'm like, you know, acting again, I like have even more of appreciation for like when you're doing a show that you don't feel great about, like the work that goes into it, and to have someone just be like, Oh, it wasn't great. You're like, listen, listen, Linda. Do you know what we've done to get it here?

SPEAKER_00

I had to be up at six to go to work, and I still had to learn this monologue.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I was in tech all week and working, and I have had no sleep. I have no time and I have no time for your opinions. So, so Ron, tell me a little bit about who you are today. How do you describe yourself today?

SPEAKER_00

I know, very deep, very Oprah. I would say at this point, I'm a professional, I guess I can say professional stand-up comic. And uh I also work, I still work in arts administration at theaters, and uh, but I've been touring with comedy quite a bit. So I guess that would be occupationally when I'm technically am right now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I and I I think you have the full ownership to say you're a professional comedian because you're doing it, you're getting gigs, you're you're out there, you have like talk about you said you when you when you emailed me about kind of your um your journey about where you are. You started uh in 2019 in your 40s in comedy. Talk about what was the switch that has this something you've always wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00

So I was doing regional theater and I was doing this horrible show in Wisconsin, and everything the cast great. Everyone got along, everyone loved each other. Like it was it was one of those like perfect casts. The director was insane. Like I and I say that with sympathy toward insane people. Like I I uh the the most stereotypical eaglimaniac you could think of. Uh he also wrote the script, um oh boy, which was basically Tony and Tina's wedding, but they were called Joey and Gina, so it was very different. Um, it was just it was just a freaking mess. And but I was away for like nine weeks, I think, doing it.

SPEAKER_01

Was it improv also? No, I mean it was one of those, like you had your basic things, and then but you would interact with the guests, and so for the listeners who don't know, Tony and Tina's wedding is I've never been to it, but I have friends who have been in it, and it's like an interactive in like interactive experience, but there is a script, but there's moments where you interact with the audience, I believe. Is that a good way to describe it?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah, that's exactly what, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um and so he was trying to do something like that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and so the final week our paychecks bounced, and we got together as a cast, and we're like, okay, we're still gonna go on. Then the director came in like two days before we closed, like, reamed us out for even thinking we wouldn't do the show when our paycheck. So everything about it was horrible, with the exception of the cast. Um, and so I got back and I was just kind of like, I don't want to take a gamble like that again. I don't want to be away from, you know, my husband for nine weeks. I don't want to be away from you know my cat for nine, you know, I don't want to take the vacation time off work. I don't want to be away and be in like living hell because, you know. So I thought, uh, but I know it's love performing, so I kind of thought, like, well, I'm gonna, you know, they had um open mic night and Laugh Factory used to have an open mic night, and it was great. They still they still have it, but I like the old format better where you would perform, it would just really be in front of comedians. And um, when you left, they would give you cra um critiques. Oh boy. And it which was great for like someone just starting out. Yeah, I know, but it was like it was actually a really supportive, like I loved it. So I just I randomly kind of stumbled on that. Now they don't do that, it's very different. And I did it, and I just kind of really, really loved it. And I didn't realize I kind of made a career of it. I don't know, I put quotations up, no one's gonna see this, but uh was hosting the Gerber Hart benefit a couple months ago at Sidetracks, and uh my friend who works in Devo there was introducing me and said, and this guy is like created a career out of stand-up comedy in a mere five years. And I'm like, No, I didn't. And then I started thinking, and I was like, Oh, I guess I kind of did. Like, I didn't plan, I didn't have a master plan of anything really.

SPEAKER_01

It was just kind of like um, it's like all the pieces laddered up, and when you looked back, when you look back, you're like, I guess I have made something of this because yeah, I've been watching you from the periphery, and it looks like you've been constantly doing stuff. And like I when you reached out to me, I was like, Yes, this is exactly what I'm looking for for this type of discussion because you it seems like you like nothing is more putting yourself out there than like doing your own stuff and standing up on a stage and having people possibly heckle you. It's completely frightening, and I and I guess also like enthralling. Like, what is it? What was it like the first time you got up on stage and did your own material? Like, was it 10 minutes? What was the time?

SPEAKER_00

I was uh like I think the first one was like three to four.

SPEAKER_01

Three to four. Okay. I think, yeah, I think that so what was that like to go from like being a character who has like written dialogue that you kind of have been directed to like here I am, and here's here's what I consider funny. I hope you do too.

SPEAKER_00

It was real, I was shaking. I it was just odd because I've been in theater for you know, I mean, been I've acted, I've directed, you know, so but it was so odd because it's just you. There's no, if you go up, there's nobody there to there's no scene partner, there's no if you're bad, you are bad. And I've seen comics who like have a bad night and then they blame the audience, and I'm like, no, that's not really, you know, like you might want to turn that inward.

SPEAKER_01

You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But it was um, so I remember the first time I was scared shitless, and until I got the first laugh, and then after I got the first laugh, and so I always try and get the first laugh very early, so I'm not nervous. Um and the only the other thing I didn't this is ridiculous. Um, but everyone comments on it. I always take the mic cord and shove it over my shoulder. And I was at comedy bar um, oh god, a couple months ago. I can't remember. But the guy was like uh Vic Panda, who's a brilliant comic that he does the comedy bar uh show that I was on, and he made some comment about how cool it looked. And I'm like, it's Judy Garland.

SPEAKER_01

I know. So that's a Judy Garland move.

SPEAKER_00

It's a totally joke because I like I would always get so nervous and not know what to do with my hands. And I was watching clips of hers, because of course I was, and she just tosses it over, and it's just her nervous energy, she would use it like a whip. Yeah, it's just the coolest damn thing ever. So everyone always comments on that. But so those are the two things I do.

SPEAKER_01

But um you whip the audience in a microphone cord and you get a laugh at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, tame them, tame the audience.

SPEAKER_00

But oh, the first time, yeah, it was really, really nerve-wracking.

SPEAKER_01

Um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And now it's funny that someone will be like, Can you do 15 minutes? And I'm like, Oh yeah, just let me know where.

SPEAKER_01

And if you go into a situation not quite knowing sometimes what the situation is, and then you're like, Oh shit, I have to spend like three months of my life or even more in this toxic situation. And you kind of can clock it pretty quickly, like where I am, what's happening. Yeah. And I can imagine that does get exhausting, and where you have the opportunity to be like, I'm gonna create my own stuff and like and have a little bit of control over what I do. What was your comedic persona like at the beginning of your career? How would you describe it? Like, what when you decided to do this, what what was like your angle that you thought you could be?

SPEAKER_00

Um, there weren't there, there's well, I I guess I didn't see many at the time, but when I started, especially in Chicago, there weren't a lot of gay male comedians. They're still not my age. There's a couple my age that are around my age. That was kind of the in. I guess like I think my first joke I ever said on stage, which I still say every now and then was um, if y'all can't tell by my accent, I'm gay.

SPEAKER_01

I've I've seen the clips that you have I laughed immediately as soon as you said that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think that was one of the first jokes I said. That might actually have been the first one at Laugh Factory. But um, so I'm just kind of this um sardonic, dry witted. And I'm glad you said character, because it's not, I mean, it's a character, it's drawn from me, but there's embellishment and you know, but um I always think I'm kind of an idiot on like I kind I kind of like will make a joke that clearly Ron knows is not the right, you know. I did a set uh about how bad of a gay I was, and I said something to the effect of like, you know, I can't name five songs by Beyond's. I've never uh I've never seen a movie with Lady Gaga. So I mean, I think I'm kind of a like in the middle. Um because at this point in my life also I'm kind of learning what gay is again. And you know, like it's a different because now it's all different. Yeah, I have been. I think if I remember it, I got married like two years after you, but we've been together for 16 and married for 13 this November.

SPEAKER_01

So Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's and that's a rare thing for people of our generation. I mean, unfortunately, I think um my husband and I've been together for 25 years, and we don't know anyone like us. And I feel like we're a bit of an outsider. And I think that they're as people get um as the uh I think I think that like you said, your voice is so unique because you are in that like Gen X. Um, I'm at the cusp but I consider myself Gen X, like comedian about in in gay culture. And you're right that not a lot of that exists. Who would you describe your like your audience is primarily or like when you show up, is the audience there? And you just kind of have to like figure out what audience is there.

SPEAKER_00

I I mean I'm not I'm not I mean I post like my dates online. I'm not arrogant enough to think like my fans will show up and my people out there in the dark are going to. I'm really, really happy with when I go to do a show, it's kind of everyone. I'm not gonna talk down to people. And there was this, I was at Zang Zangy's, I think. And I walked outside, I walked on stage, and there were these three people who looked, I grew up in a small farm town in Indiana, and they look like they literally came from a small farm town in India, got off the bus, and they sat there, arms crossed, you know, like when I walked down on stage, not because they were just comfortable, they weren't like intimidating or anything. Yeah, and in the back of my head, I'm like, well, shit, um, I'm performing in my hometown now. And like they looked like they were gonna beat the shit out of me. You know what I mean? Like they just looked like you know, the John Deere hat and that, you know, um, and they were lassing their asses off. And so I I'm really happy that I seem no arrogance, but I seem to be able to not have a demographic per se, and it's a pretty wide, which is important to me because I don't everyone should laugh. And so I don't you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01

What did you learn about that in terms of like you've probably always had I I'm gonna assume you've always had like comedy in you, and or is that something you discovered that you had? Is that a is that a talent you discovered that you had?

SPEAKER_00

No, it comes from trauma, so I've used that for for years.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of the best comedians have trauma, I've I've heard. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Read about Chaplin. I uh but no, and it's funny because friends of mine from college will be like, why did it take you so long to do this? And I'm like, I just it just wasn't in the cards. So no, I think I think the danger would be thinking I'm funny without trying it out, I guess. And thinking that like I think I can tell a joke, and I think I have can sometimes do clever wordplay, you know, stuff like that. But I've also gone to shows where the person, it was probably very funny at the frat bar they were at last night after the game, but in front of this audience, it's not funny, you know what I mean? So, like it's it's kind of um yeah. So I kind of test it out. I'm sorry, did I answer your question? I have a tendency to meander.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no, you kinda you you did. I think I I guess the question I'm trying to ask is finding your comedic voice. How did you find it? Was it was there like what did you have a mentor? Because I know, like you mentioned, you're kind of like you don't see a lot of yourself on stage. Did you have someone who kind of helped you or did you kind of do it on your own? Like what was the what was the way that you kind of you got you figured out who you are as a stand-up comedian?

SPEAKER_00

Um a lot of it came from theater.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And because I was always shockingly cast in the character roles because I have a slight list. So um I was always Me too uh usually the roles I play are like the ones who don't kiss anyone. Yeah, exactly. Like next door neighbor. So, but you learn how to be comedic in that because there that's all there is for you to do is telephone. Yeah, I this sounds so television. Like I growing up was obsessed with like the Norman lyrics sitcoms and uh uh you know, like stuff like that. So I I mean I would say like turn a phrase, it was that. Um, I've always been kind of sarcastic and you know dry witted, but uh, I don't, I don't there's I even now I don't watch a lot of stand-up comedy. So I I didn't really have someone, you know, that I emulated or anything. There were a couple I remember Ant um was uh God, he might have been the only one that I knew when I started doing it. Ant.

SPEAKER_01

Um I don't know who that is.

SPEAKER_00

He was on last comic standing and he was in some yeah, one of those 90s game movies. But um, and uh I mean since then there's like Wanda Sykes and you know Bianca Del Rio, who's just but she's still your she's still your your show title. Yes. She will hear from my lawyer. No, I I actually have that. For all we're saying, yes. Yeah. Um no, I just love that like okay. Well, maybe I'm doing something right because she took the same title. Uh no, I don't think she was.

SPEAKER_01

You mentioned Norman Lear, like what what were your what were your sitcoms that you watched that you thought were like what is funny, like what was funny to you as like young Ron?

SPEAKER_00

A comeback, a good comeback. Lawrence from the Jeffersons could do a comeback like nobody else. Um Eve Arden, if I I mean, I watched there was nothing to do on the farm. I watched a lot of TV and read a lot of books. So uh, but like if if you know who Eve Arden is, like the dry um I do, yeah. Yeah, like I so a good comeback will just the the sister from what's happening. I mean, I'm just like remember growing up and watching these things of um just like a good devastating. So I love the golden girls and Will and Grace because like 90% of it is just uh a comeback. And and so I yeah, that's kind of I guess my school. Like there was some time.

SPEAKER_01

Comeback and timing. Comeback and timing. Yeah, yeah. It's those those two things are like are and and Norman Lear, like I remember all the things I used to love that were like the sitcoms the day, like you know, even the most recent one that he did, which was the reboot reboot of um of uh one day at a time. One day at a time, yeah. Which was so funny and so real, and there were a lot of comebacks, most of them given to uh Rita Marino.

SPEAKER_00

Rita Moreno.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's that like for you of taking kind of like honoring that and bringing it forward? Because a lot of the younger generation doesn't know who what any of that is. They don't know what a comeback is, except for like a click and a snap, you know. They don't know what a what a real well-honed comeback looks like.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I um shockingly, and I don't there aren't shows like that on TV. Now it's all quasi-documentary shows and stuff like that. So I um Max had some really good like comeback. But about a comic too. Like, I mean, uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think people loved it because they they missed that good type of writing with that with a lot of things. I do too, I think.

SPEAKER_00

So if anyone wants to do a sitcom, give me a call. Um, but yeah, I uh I I never really thought of it like that, but you're right. There's not a lot of the youngins today, and even the stuff we like, I'm I'm in the game end chorus um because I'm uber talented and my tech cleared. I don't know. I was just saying, so we did the last show we did was all share related because we're knocking down the stereotypes. I was talking to uh a guy who sits next to me, and I was talking about my share share moment is Will and Grace when Cher and Jack meet with the share doll. And he was like, Oh, I've I've never seen that show. And I'm like, you like I know it's and he's like 23, 24. So I'm kind of like, oh god, you're missing out.

SPEAKER_01

I was in a show with uh I was in a show with someone in their mid-20s, and I was meant referencing Will and Grace. She's like, I've never seen it. I was like, really? Not even the reboot, yeah. It's like it was something like things. I we lived in monoculture back in the day, and where everyone was kind of watching the same thing, and now it's so fragmented and it's moved so quickly that a lot of the stuff that we assume people had references to, they don't exist anymore. And I don't think that there's a lot of honoring the history of queer culture because we're always looking ahead, we're always seeing what's fresh and new.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I don't think people realize how recent will and I remember when Roseanne had an episode where she was at a bar and somebody, a woman kissed her, and that was like the mo like.

SPEAKER_01

That was like 40 years ago, Ron. That was 40 years ago almost.

SPEAKER_00

Dutch her mouth.

SPEAKER_01

Um I know, but in a way, it seems like we've gone backwards in a lot of TV.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's just kind of like a um, and then I watched, you know, something like Heated Rivalry Our Fellow Travelers, and I'm like, is this okay? I mean, this is I'm shocked I'm seeing this on TV when we rise, which I think I'm the only person who watched but um but there is there is this, and everything now God, I sound like a boomer, but everything now is so mean spirited.

SPEAKER_01

Don't we don't we find that as we get older or like these kids don't appreciate a comedy?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but like I mean, I'll watch like you know, someone on TikTok, and I'm like, it's like when people filming meltdowns in public, which honestly I think half of it's fake anyway, but I'm kind of like, you're like filming this person on the worst day of their life and putting it out there for people to laugh at. And like it's just so mean to me. Um, from someone who can like kill someone with a line, it's really mean to me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So it's been a lot of kids. I've found a lot of kids that are finding like comedy from like um uh you know, RuPaul's drug race of it all of it all. They're they're they're they're finding like the one-liners and the comebacks from that show. But RuPaul really honored the history that we're talking about of like the designing women and like the the Mildred Pierces and like all of that stuff. Like he he's the one and queer culture in general, not just RuPaul, but he made it mainstream, and so that became RuPaul, and then they only know it from that basis point, they don't know where the orange origins of it come from. So they think it's like new and funny. Like, no, that's that's Around for ages, it didn't come from track race. Anyways, I'm on a tangent. I'm gonna go back, Ron, to you in the farm when you're when you're young. Where did you see yourself when you were a kid?

SPEAKER_00

I say farm. We had farm animals who didn't farm anything. So if anyone I grew up with is listening to this, just yeah, so it's just easier to say farm. But um, I detasseled corn, it was a farm. Um, I kind of always thought, I I mean, it was when something in the arts, I kind of always thought I would move to New York, and it was a really big deal when I finally performed in New York. So, because I kind of always figured I would end up there and you know, Sondheim would call, I'd have to turn down Lloyd Weber, I would do the Sondheim show, you know, like the when you're a kid, you you know, imagine all this stuff. So I knew I would be in a bigger city and I knew it would not be Indianapolis. And I'm not bashing my hometown. There are a lot of people I know who stayed stayed there. They teach at the high school and the schools that like they went to with me as again. And I'm from a small town too.

SPEAKER_01

I I I love my hometown, and I think it's it's when you're a creative gay, it's hard to realize your dreams sometimes in those areas, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and yeah, so I I always knew I'd get out. Um, yeah, I kind of lucked out with Chicago, I think.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you always know you be something creative. You went to you went to acting and you and you've you did you dabbled around, as I mentioned, you directed, you've done kind of all facets of theater, then you went to comedy. So looking at your comedic career, which is a new term and an acceptance for you, we're gonna embrace it. What have you learned about yourself?

SPEAKER_00

I think the biggest thing is that I'm stronger than I thought I was on say something about that in that aspect. Like I um it it's literally just you. It is literally just you. Um, you have to put the work in, you have to write, you have to work the material, you have to, you know, I can't rely on Edward Alby to do my work for me. That was a lot for me because that's a lot of that's a lot of work, quite frankly. But I've also learned that um I have a really strong work ethic, which like I never thought it was a slouch or anything, but it's a very different kind of work. Like in early June, I was supposed to go to New Orleans for this comedy festival, which is actually when I urge her podcast. And I was gonna take the train because I was exhausted. And I'm like, this will be great. The derailment, the train got canceled. So I'm like, flights were too expensive. So I ended up driving the whole way down. And I'm like, five years ago, I never would have done that shit. I know I just would have been like, I'm so sorry, can't make it. Can we reschedule? But it was very much like, oh no, no, I don't cancel. We're making this work.

SPEAKER_01

And it's it's your it's your name and reputation that you are very so.

SPEAKER_00

When I'm sending out, you know, booking letters and stuff like that, it's kind of like uh in in theater, I would just be like, here's my resume, here's my, you know, like here's my headshot. I hope to hear from you soon. If I fit this very specific look that you're looking for for this production of three sisters in a storefront or whatever. Um whereas in comedy, I'm like, here is what I have done, and here is a clip. You might have seen me on blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, and so I must be.

SPEAKER_01

The hustle is real. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It is, but it's I I'm actually I like promoting that aspect of it. Like, I'm very proud of it, I guess. Whereas in and I don't know why, because I mean there are just as many stand-up comedians, but when I was doing theater, it was like, I am one of seven million people, 2,000 of which just graduated college and are submitting for this, you know what I mean? Like there's only so many neighbor roles out there. You would submit and not hear back and submit a not hear back. And it's the same sometimes in comedy, but like I have a backbone for it now. And I'm just like, I got a rejection letter from some comedy festival somewhere. Um, and I was like, I have no idea memory of submitting to this, like unless they were like proactively telling me, you know, we do not want you. I'm like, I have no memory of submitting to these people.

SPEAKER_01

Um Had you always been because I I would imagine everything you're saying is like comedy, you have to be a little fearless and a little, I guess, delusional a little bit to be like, yes, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I think it's to to get through it. And I think um were you always that way? Were you were you always delusional, Ron? Were you always like someone who didn't um who who just moved forward? Like was that always you or is that something you've learned through this experience?

SPEAKER_00

No, I think I'd always done it, but I never only because there was no other option.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know what I mean? So if you're if you're in a predicament, let's say never been fired, but let's say I got fired from my job or laid off from my job or something. It was like, well, I could either sit here and bitch and moan for seven months till I'm evicted, or I can go find another job. In comedy is kind of different because I don't have to do it. I can stay home and you know, watch Golden Girls reruns. I don't have to go out there and I don't have to. So it I've kind of learned that if I want something, I do have to go for it because nobody else is gonna do it for me. Yeah. Um, whereas it's not like a survival thing necessarily of if I want dinner, I'm going to have to cook it. Or, you know, does that make sense? I mean, they're kind of two separate um No, it makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_01

You have to like it's not gonna come to you. You have to go out there and get and work for it. No one's gonna ask you unless like there's people. I'm assuming you're at a phase now you're getting maybe opportunities offered to you where you're like, we need someone to fill in this space. Can you come in and like do like 20, 30 minutes here? Like people know who you are now a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah. I mean, I think in the in the city, particularly, um, I I would say, I mean, I'm I won a contest at Zane's.

SPEAKER_01

I saw that. Congrats.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. That was yeah, like sorry, that was a big eff and deal. I'm uh I'm I'm very modest, but that was I was really, really proud of it.

SPEAKER_01

No, go for it. Like no one's gonna, no one's gonna my friend and I have a have a joke. This is a little side story about Betty Buckley. I hope you know who she is.

SPEAKER_00

You got a campaign, Betty Lynn.

SPEAKER_01

You got a campaign, Betty Lynn. Yeah, when she was wanting to be Norma Desmond and Sunset Boulevard. Yes, did you say you have the shirt?

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, I said you have the shirts. I remember when you're selling the shirts, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

She she mentioned that you got a campaign, Betty Lynn, because no one else is gonna do it except for you. You have to campaign. So, yes, campaign for yourself, Ron. But then congrats, yeah. That's huge.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, it's good. I just and then I think that gave me some street cred because people who I had submitted to before that I never heard back from would then reach out to me, be like, hey, we saw your clip on Zany's.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I mean? The question that comedians always get asked, like, what was the moment where you bombed and how did you handle it? Have you had a moment where you bombed? I guess.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_00

No, and I don't say that to be everything I've done is perfect. I have had better sets.

SPEAKER_01

You haven't ever had thoughts what I have no.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I have had sets where a joke didn't work, a joke didn't land. I've had sets where the audience didn't like the joke, whereas the audience the night before loved it. So I've had stuff like that. And I I don't know if it's perception, but when I'm done, I always analyze it and try and learn from it. And maybe that's why I don't think I've bombed.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um you take it as a learning versus a yeah, and and that might be so maybe I have. Um, I've not heard about it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But so yeah, so I don't feel necessarily that I have. But that's the thing too, is when you're telling you, you know, 50 jokes in 10 minutes, yeah. If they don't like one, you can move to the next one. So I'm not sure. Yeah, so I don't want to say the place because it I it it's not the place's fault. I feel like most of the audiences there think they're seeing improv sketch. And so when you do a stand-up show at this venue, I think sometimes there's this wait, what are we for here? Yeah. Um and so at this place, I um, which again is not the fault of the place. Um I've had times where I'm like, that seemed to go well. Why weren't they laughing their asses off? But I don't think it's bombing because I don't feel like I'm bombed. I mean, I think it's a perception thing. So and I don't need to make again make it sound like I have always walked out there and killed that first time you went up and performed for those like four minutes, which seems crazy to like kind of to do that.

SPEAKER_01

What type of feedback did you get that was helpful from other critics from other comic comedians?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, um, they laughed, which was the number like the audience laughed, which at the time was mostly comics, but for someone just starting out, it was it was great. And um then the critique I got, because again, they used to, as you left, they would kind of give you a uh, but he was like, you need to be doing this every night. And I'm like, okay. Like, I mean, that was the critique. So I think I mean I took away from that, like, okay, there's something there, you need to hone it. But that was it, it but it's honestly if they're laughing, they're laughing. I I was on a show like two months ago with someone who kept talking about how all they did was alt comedy. And I'm like, okay. But like the like just kept using that term. Um I'm not gonna name it, I'm never gonna bash another comedian, but um, it just was it was just kind of like okay, like what I just want them to laugh. Like, I'm not subsetting it where like I can't do this joke because this is not alt comedy, but this is, or this is, you know, yeah, this is observational. This is not, and so I don't some people do that, and some people do really well with it, but I god, if they're laughing, they're laughing. I just I don't I don't overthink that, I guess.

SPEAKER_01

You tell a really fun and I cannot remember it. I know I watched it. This was probably three or four years ago. You told a really funny Padopone story. Can you can you just recap it to refresh refresh my brain? I don't I I don't want you to like give away your stand-up material.

SPEAKER_00

But what I what happened? So yeah, I was working at a theater in town where there was uh yes, where there was a show that that um Miss Lapone was in, and I um her reputation perceived her. I I never had any bad run-ins with her or anything. Uh, but one day I was leaving and she got off the elevator, like I passed, and she got off the elevator, yeah and she was behind me, and I was leaving, and I opened the door because I'm a gentleman and I scared shitless of her. And I stood there and then she just kind of stood in the doorway, and she just said, Where's my car? And I think she was kind of talking to herself. You know what I mean? Like, I think she because I was just standing there holding the door for this like Broadway legend, and I can't let it close, and I can't, and so I was just kind of like, Oh, I don't know. I'm sure it will be around shortly, or something like that. And I just then she turned and walked in, but it was I embellished it a bit. I think it did an accent in the story, and I was like, Oh no, it was your storytelling was fantastic. I remember doing that, and afterwards, um, some friends of mine were like, I don't know who that is. I don't know who that is. Well, the five gay people in the audience loved it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, maybe that's input for your when you tell the story to give a little context on who she is that the that the gays can respect.

SPEAKER_00

But but also come on, come on now.

SPEAKER_01

Like who is uh who is who is the who is the comparison that would resonate with that audience? I have no clue at this point because there's no there's no stars these days. Um thank you. Yeah, I remember at the height of my uh like adoration of her when she was in that show at that theater. I used to work down the street from that theater, and I would walk home every night and pass by the theater. I would make a detour to walk by the theater just to make see if I put into her. Um delusional. And then I one day I actually did, and she was coming out of the theater with a rag on her head, like a like a babushka type. Yeah, yeah. She came out with big glasses and she was pointing around, like it's almost as if where's my car? Like she was like looking around. And I looked at her and she gave me the look, and I was like, keep moving, keep moving, keep moving.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yes, you had interacted with her at times, right?

SPEAKER_01

Like, oh yeah. I've had I've had about three.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like I thought you, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, the one where she um I've told the story million times that I bought her a dirty martini after gypsy, and then she yelled at me at Ravinia about it. Yeah, so it's she's she's a force, but this isn't the Pet of the Poem podcast, but she I wouldn't have to be. It would be too long, we would be here forever.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Who are some of your just a side tension? Who are some of your favorite divas? Who are some of your favorite leading ladies?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, um, I I like what Judy. Um, I hardly God, I don't think there are divas anymore. Like Audra, but I don't think Audra's a diva. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Like there's I I don't think she'd define herself as one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no. Bernadette, probably. I read a really interesting article. It's probably on 10 years now, but about how do we need divas anymore? And it's kind of like, uh, I don't know. I mean, that's you know, um, but I it's a good question, but it breaks my heart.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but it's kind of like because I'm in a lab, throw me a Betty Davis movie, and I'm you know, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um, but nowadays I don't think they're doing there's people who like I really enjoy, and you know, the untouchable quality of people is of stars and celebrity is kind of non-existent because of social media, but also it's uh I think the my friend who I he's a producer on Broadway, and he um him and I have been friends like 15, 16 years, and we talk about this phenomenon of like back in the like like the last divas are like the Audrey McDonald's, Betty Buckley's Petalopones, Sun Foster eight eeks through a little bit, you know, like those people who are like the Broadway like star. I'm I'm speaking of stage divas, of course. They don't exist anymore, they don't because they are all like the Casey Levy of like ragtime is kind of an output of a show, not so much leading a show anymore. We have no shows.

SPEAKER_00

Like, who's gonna do Call Me Madam? You know what I mean? Like, I mean, without an ethyl, like nobody not that anyone's gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01

Well, who's gonna do a show in general starring a woman who is an adult? They don't happen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. No, you're I I would agree. I I think I mean, like there are some. Um I still shoot myself. I didn't see Reba and Annie get your gun, but I keep hoping to God she comes back to musical theater. Um, I know, specifically in a production of Best of the Whorehouse in Texas. However, if I can manifest that, if I can hear her sing Bust from Amarillo, my life is gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_01

But um Barbara Cook oftentimes said that Reba McIntyre and Annegate Your Gum was her favorite stage performance she's ever seen.

SPEAKER_00

A friend of mine told me I and I would consider Reba if you can use one letter for or one word for your name and people know who you are. So to me, Reba's a Diva. But you're gonna go by Ron.

SPEAKER_01

Is that gonna be your stage name?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Ron with an N. Not Ron with an S, because Ron with an S goes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um I know we're kind of getting off tangent, but I think it's Lon theme because we're both like we're roughly the same age, and like we both love theater, we love performing. Over the past 10 years, I've seen it go from like theater that I resonate with to like I am old now, and I don't know if I connect with these stories anymore. Because and that's not a bad thing. Let's bring in the young audience. I'm all for it. Like at the same time, I'm also like, I don't know if I necessarily care a bunch of high schoolers going through a midlife crisis, uh going through like a high school crisis, or like thank you, thank you, dear Ivan Hansen.

SPEAKER_00

I I know oh look, a teenager singing a power ballad. Brilliant. I saw Little Night music last night, which I know you're also a stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Uh at the Marinette.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. I I just it escaped me. I I knew the score, I'd seen the movie and the burn.

SPEAKER_01

I saw you post that you had never seen it before. I'm like, right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I know. I just and I'm sitting there and it gets to the sun, the the beginning of act two. And I'm sitting there and it's in the round, and so there are actors next to me, and one of them says, Um, they sing the line. God, I hope I don't mess it up.

SPEAKER_01

But um Suntime will strike you down.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but and so while the clock turns, don't sing a knock turn just yet. Yes, and I'm like shit. Like, God missed on time. God miss lyrics like that. I like I just yeah, but I'm just like I miss cleverness and I miss, you know, and don't get me wrong, like I was weaned on rent. Like when Rhett came out, I was the and I still love it. Great, great road trip album. Nowadays, when I see it, I'm like, it's a concert, that's fine, you know, like sing the song, sing the shit I love songs, that's great. But you know, the kids weren't born who are performing Rhett now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I really miss like I mean, and there's stuff I really love, but there's a point, there's a there's a a really good point there because I think what Sondheim did, Sondheim wrote in the style of the show that it needed. And and a little night music, even though it's not going to resonate with a younger audience, he wrote it in all three-quarter time and waltzes because that's what the show demanded. Like, and it has a very distinct sound and vibe, which is very different from his other shows. Like Company was kind of like a rock musical at that time, like a kind of a bossanova rock musical. A lot of contemporary musicals, not all of them, but a lot of them sound like Christian rock. Yeah, no, I mean they're all just kind of the sameness of sound, you know.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I will say. Like Hamilton, I was like, shit, this is different. Like, there's different things in it. Rent, I would say there's gospel, there's rap.

SPEAKER_01

We're talking in hyperbole. There's a lot of outliers out there, of course. Yeah, a lot of contemporary musicals are Christian Rocky right now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um Ahern's Flatly, I miss like Flaherty.

SPEAKER_01

Who are you? Flaherty, sorry.

SPEAKER_00

Sorry. Flat sorry, Flaherty, no Indiana sneaking in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So so going back to you, where do you see your where do you see your career going? What would you love it?

SPEAKER_00

Well, nowhere now, set composer. So I'm clearly going to be ostracized from every piano bar in the city now. Um, could you imagine I walk into like Marie Chris and they're like, no, no, no, no. We heard. Get out.

SPEAKER_01

Marie Crisis. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00

Marie Crisis? Is it Crisis?

SPEAKER_01

Marie's Crisis.

SPEAKER_00

Performed in New York.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I don't want to ruin your reputation.

SPEAKER_00

I don't, I just know what it is, but I don't, yeah. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01

I've only been there twice myself. So where do you want to be? Where where do you want to be? Like, I know this question always sucks because I don't even know where I want to be in five years, but like let's talk about like two years from now. Like, where do you want to be? What goals?

SPEAKER_00

I think eventually I would like a sitcom, quite frankly. So if anyone out there wants to give 49-year-old gay man a sitcom, um, I have a premise and everything, but um Do you want to put it out in the out in the open or do you want to keep it? I always thought it would be funny to have a gay man have to come back to his hometown. Um and you could deal with culture clash and you could deal with on both sides. Um, and um because I think small towns get a bad reputation. I agree.

SPEAKER_01

Especially in Hollywood or whatever Hollywood is now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I would love to have because I remember um going back once and like oh god, when you first come out, you people are the people do the best they can with who they are at the time. So um I remember going back um and running into people from high school and them being so nice and so, you know, and and me thinking like, oh my god, are they gonna call me a faggot? Or they you know what I mean? Like just like after I came out and stuff. And so I I kind of and I went to my Hesfield reunion, which was so much fun. I'm glad I grew up there. I'm glad that there are some wonderful people there who, you know, like I needed to get out, but um yeah, I I I yeah, I do think they get a better app.

SPEAKER_01

I think there is, I think there's a there's an interesting story to be said there. Uh I love this concept of like, and I don't think this has been really explored. Maybe like um, I'm thinking of Bridget Everett's show. Um oh yeah, somebody some some somebody somehow.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just gonna mispronounce everything. Every I'm just gonna mispronounce everything.

SPEAKER_01

I I'm also the same way, Ron. I'm gonna say things, I'm always the same way. I saw I'm picking on you, but I'm I'm also a culprit. Uh what I'm trying to say is like not a lot of like modern media, media in general, like really honors like small town life and its complexities. You love it, you have an affinity for it. There are great things to be had there, especially if you're an outsider. Like there are people who are lovely and loving, and there's culture to be found if you look for it. Uh to explore that is really fascinating. I love that concept. Yeah, I would yeah, I just think that would be a fun um so if anyone out there Yeah, so you want to you be in a sitcom about about coming home. Um well, let's make it happen. Let's make some calls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I'll call Patty. She can play your mom with a New Jersey accent.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

A Long Island accent. Ron, what are you doing? Um, are you a fag? Um, so if someone were to come to you, and like not necessarily like in looking to be in the comedy vein, well, I do want to ask this question before I get to it.

SPEAKER_00

Have you had anyone come to you for advice? The number one advice I would give anyone is don't talk down to your audience. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They they and what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, like I there's this wonderful little town in Illinois called Piatone. And I have done the show three times in there, and it's like it's just this bar show, but everyone is so nice. And the first time I went, I pulled the booker aside and I was like, You've seen my stuff. Like, yeah, you know, should I clean it up? Not that I'm dirty, but I mean it's just, you know, I um and he's like, no, no, you'll do fine, you'll do fine. I killed it. Like it was, they were so so going back to how small towns are great, you know, like yeah, they get the better at. But I was just like, I don't know, you know, I was also early and nervous, and yeah. Um, but um, I've seen people in that same show go on stage and be like, well, you look like a bunch of rednecks. And I'm like, don't that that is talking down to me. Like, don't.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so that would be the number one thing. Like, like, no matter what you're on the Is they're not there to be ostracized, basically. They want to laugh at you. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that that's why your comedy is so interesting because you are a gay comedian who understands small town America. Understands. Right. And I think that's why, like, you know, like I'm dating myself like Rhett Butler and like even like um Roseanne. Like those people were popular back in there because they spoke to that audience, but you also do, and you also get it. You clock it and you know how to talk to them and know what that what that vibe is like. And I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_00

Trying to, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01

So now talking down, what else? What other what other advice would you give?

SPEAKER_00

Um, it's a marathon, not a sprint. There is a place in Chicago that is known for improv. And a lot of people who are on a famous TV show sometimes started out there, but I don't want to give the name. Um but a lot of people will go there and think their next step is SNL.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, and I'm like, it's it's it's it's it's a marathon, no sprint. So people who think, you know, everything is just gonna happen. Um, but I would say everyone should try it. Um, in the same way, like I had a therapist who said everyone should do drag once. It just like that you're going to find out parts of yourself. I I've never done drag. I'm entirely too masculine. But um, I have what would your drag name be?

SPEAKER_01

Let's come up with it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, uh, so we're a knee's hurting. Uh perfect. Um, but I think everyone should try it at once once or twice. But I mean, I haven't gotten any do you say the same thing for stand-up?

SPEAKER_01

Everyone should try it.

SPEAKER_00

I do. I mean, I think like it's uh and in Chicago it seems like everyone does at least once. Uh but uh yeah, I mean, I think it's good. I think you you you should try things to learn more about yourself. And if it scares you, you should probably try it. That doesn't mean you need to make a career out of it. That doesn't mean you need to, you know, um give up your life and start taking stand-up classes or anything. But no, I mean, I think I think anything you can do to kind of learn more about yourself. And I I mean, it is just you and a microphone and you know what, three, four minutes. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Do you think it's been a strength that you've started later in life to do this? That you've had like more like understanding of who you are as a person, the fortitude. I'm not feeding you an answer, but do you think that's been a strength for you?

SPEAKER_00

I think so, because I don't think like, you know, Dorothy can't go home immediately. I don't think 20 years ago I could have done, you know, uh, how gay is this podcast? Uh, we've like literally mentioned divas. I just did a wizard of oz reference. Um, but like I don't think 20 years ago I could have done it. I don't think because I just wouldn't know. Um, and it kind of came out of, well, let's give this a shot. I don't care, you know what I mean. I'm not gonna see these people again anyway.

SPEAKER_01

And I think as you get older, you gain more well confidence delusion, perhaps. Let's call it that. And also, like, who gives a fuck? Life is too short. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00

Kind of like you don't, and you kind of stop caring about it's so funny. I was talking to my therapist about this. I know it's shocking. I would be in therapy, but um or every now and then when I still do something, I'm like, God, so and so from junior high would have really hated me for this. Or I mean, like every now and then the things will pop into my head, yeah, and then I'll immediately be like, bitch, I'm a 50-year-old gay man. I don't care. Like, I don't like it's the same way when um when somebody talks kind of sort of a tangent, but similar when someone talks about uh masculinity in and how people need to be uber masculine now. And I'm just like, I grew up gay in a small town in the 80s in Indiana. Like, yeah, you think that didn't take balls?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you have to you uh as a gay man who grew up in a small town, I completely get it because you have to create like a you have to create a fortress around yourself. And I imagine breaking that down too is also part of it, too.

SPEAKER_00

That's the rest of your damn life, is breaking that damn fortress down.

SPEAKER_01

That's kind of how I live my um if someone were to come to you, not just necessarily around starting comedy, but just in general and said, it's too late for me, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, no, it's not. You can fail at any age.

SPEAKER_01

So failure is not age discriminatory.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. No, you never freaking know. Like your life is not a straight line. Uh mine is a swishy, but um, you so it doesn't, there's not a, you know, um, and you can easily Google like people who started late in life, people, you know what I mean? Like, and you everyone has the voice and everyone has uh experiences they can draw on for whatever they want to do, you know. If you want to be a doctor, but you were a nurse for 20 years, you can still go back to school and get your, you know. Uh, but I don't think I don't think and it's it it's too late when we're dead, but I don't think it's like from that or you know if you were to title the chapter of this phase of your life, what would the title be? So I'd say two years ago it would have been okay, let's give this a try. Um now now I think can I cuss?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_00

Now I think it would be, oh fuck yeah. And because yeah, yeah. So that's yeah, so that's kind of it's good. I mean, it's you know, and I keep trying and keep moving forward. So I yeah, yeah. Um yeah, so I think I think that's that's where I'd be right now. Um as I turn 50 in January.

SPEAKER_01

Any plans for 50th? Are we going anywhere?

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't know. I kind of for my 40th, we went to New York with friends as possible too, so stayed for a week. I kind of want to do a roast. I don't know. Like find a charity. Yeah, like find a charity and do a roast.

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, yeah. Well, fabulous. Well, Ron, it's been fabulous connecting with you. This has been so fun.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I want to come and see you perform. What's your next what's your next gig? What's your next thing?

SPEAKER_00

I am hosting Monday night at Zainy's.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Rosemont.

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, Old Town. And then next Friday night, I'm at Throw Down the Gauntlet I made the finals and throw down the gauntlet, which is like oddly enough, right across the street from Zany's. But it's like next Friday at eight, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Um have you updated the website?

SPEAKER_00

Oh god, no, no, I need to. I'm so bad.

SPEAKER_01

Do it.

SPEAKER_00

No, I do. And it's also I need to get someone to help me work on it. But it's like I'll be hard. Get a Squarespace account. Do it. Yeah, I asked that.

SPEAKER_01

Where should people go to find the latest information where you are and where where they can see you?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I Instagram or Instagram is generally my I post regularly there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. And what's your Instagram handle?

SPEAKER_00

Uh RonPup. It's R P O P P 773. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You gotta change that. It's gotta be comedy centered.

SPEAKER_00

We gotta brand you.

SPEAKER_01

Ron.

SPEAKER_00

Well, my name is yeah, okay. Well, now that I have a career coach, I can, yeah. Um, you were not the first person to tell me that. Um I'm young, I'm young and hip, and as soon as I learn how to serve.

SPEAKER_01

We want to be able to see your amazing stuff that you're doing because you're you're you like the stuff I have seen that you've posted online is really, really good and really, really funny.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and YouTube I post uh set on YouTube. Yeah. So there's yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you have a lot of stuff out there. So um thank you for joining us. It's been a pleasure. And I hope I get to see you again very soon in person for Reels.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, anytime. Grab a like.

SPEAKER_01

Keep doing the thing. You're amazing. Oh, thank you. All right, take care. Have a good one. Bye. Later in Life is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Bob Boland. Theme music by Rocky Patera. Cover art by Rachel Joyce. If you like what you're hearing, please consider leaving us a review and a rating on Apple Podcasts. It helps the NeuroPodcast find its audience. And if you have a story you think might fit the vibe of the show, reach out to me. You can email me at thebroadwaybob at gmail.com. I look forward to hearing from you. And remember, it's never too late.