SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, I'm Gary Megan, and welcome to my podcast series, The Gary Meegan Show. I've never been one to complicate things, and that includes this title. If you're tuning in, you probably know me, but for those that don't, you have to know that I absolutely love food and travel and also the opportunity of just talking way too much. In this podcast, we're going to look beyond the world of food and talk to people, whether they're celebrities or sports people, politicians or professionals who trigger my curiosity and interests and have something to share. It's all about their careers, their passions, their beliefs, and maybe some life lessons. So without further ado, let's crack on. They run what has become an iconic Melbourne Institute. It's one of the sweetest places you're ever likely to step foot in, and it's called Birch and Purchase. This shop has some of the most exquisite cakes and desserts you can ever imagine. Some of my favorites, the gold bars and the varines. You'll have to pop in to see what I mean. And as far as I'm concerned, it's run by one of the hardest working hospitality couples in the business, Darren Purchase and Kath Claringbold. The reason I wanted to get them into the show is because I know just how hard it is to run a hospitality business. And I can't imagine the kind of stresses it would cause when you're running it with your partner. So I wanted to find out all the juicy details behind the domestic as well as the business partnerships. You know what I mean? The tiffs, the fights, all those things that happen along the way. But what I got instead were stories about Ed Sheeran, a billionaire con artist, and believe it or not, a Greek island filled with stolen artifacts.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

It's lovely to have you in the studio.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Kath Larinbolt, Darren Purchase, the busiest hospitality couple in the world, I reckon. And I'm looking at two tired people. You do everything, your faces are everywhere. Not only Master Chef, and I think Darren, that's where people probably go, yeah, Darren Purchase, Master Chef, but you know, authors. So we've got books out there. You're ambassador for the biggest morning tea, uh, for the Council Council of Victoria, which is amazing. Um, and major players in things like the races and the Grand Prix, and uh pretty much every out. I think when I look at Instagram, you're everywhere all the time. And I go, how do you do that? We do a lot of event work, we're very lucky.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Um, because I help him behind the scenes. And go, Darren, you're doing this.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So there's a lot to talk about. So I thought what we do, because you're both uh hospitality heroes for for many people. Oh, thank you. So I thought what we do is we kind of split you up to start off with and then bring you together. And so we bit of background on you, Kath, bit of background on you Daz, and then when you met as a couple, because obviously you're a couple in and out of the business, which is correct, interesting stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

At work and at home, uh in all aspects of life, it's very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

So, Kath, we've got to rewind the clock a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

How far?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

I don't know. I I think we should do and we'll we'll go quite a way back and then we can speed it up. Okay. Where where did the interest in food start for you? Because it's a very different path to what you're on right now.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Um it it started at home with my family. Um my parents really loved restaurants, um, but I grew up in Country Victoria, so I didn't really know what a restaurant was at all.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Where's Country Victoria?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Um it was Bacchus Marsh. So where all the lettuce and apples and everything were coming from. I was eating fantastic produce, but I didn't really know about the restaurant experience. And I kind of fell into it accidentally because I didn't know what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Okay. Were you a good girl at school? Were you a bad girl at school?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

I was a bad girl.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Were you? Were you a bad girl? I was a bad pain. Give us a little bit of something.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

I was a pain for my parents. I really was. Yeah. Um I was the youngest. Um, they had their own business. Um, everyone had left home. I had a very rebellious brother or a troublemaking brother who I idolized, and I think I took a little bit of a feather.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

So, what's rebellious? Was it was it naughty verging on criminal? Because I've got that in my in Mandy, my wife's story. We've got naughty verging on criminals.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

I tried, I tried um to push the boundaries of criminal, but um no one would I remember one day specifically wanting to be arrested, but you know, that it didn't look like it can be. It was really in your mind. It was in my mind. Because I yeah, I was like I was annoyed and and I was, yeah, I was troubled.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Was that because uh Bacchus Marsh back then was quiet, sleepy, nothing to do, is that horrible, boring, really didn't have anything to offer at all.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

So um So school not a great place for you or um I didn't I enjoyed school up to a probably about fourteen and then I just then I had that view that um my teachers were all dickheads, can I say that? And I we really was a waste of time and I couldn't see what I was being t I couldn't see how anything I was being taught was gonna help me in later life.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

This must have drove your parents mad.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

I was, yeah, I was it was hard.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah. And so what drove you into because you were you became a chef, right? Was that right?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Is that how um yes, I I actually got I needed to earn money, so I took a job at a local roadhouse which um on the Western Highway and because I wanted to buy a car as fast as I could. And while I was there, um the my bosses said to me, we could send you off to Melbourne to do an apprenticeship. And I said, Can I swear? I said, No, I said, No, thank you. I will um I and then I said I I'll go and I'll go to the city and get a job. And that's what I did. And I started working at the art center, which was hilarious because there were no female chefs in that in those days. There was one woman there at the time, and that was all. And I rocked up for an for a um interview wearing a houndstooth dress because I was into scar music, didn't know that chefs wore checks. Um and they said they laughed, that that's hilarious, you're hired. And then they put me into the sandwich section, and I said, you know, so I had to fight for that. I had to say, come on, guys, I need to get out of here. I really want to learn how to cook. And then from there, the world just opened up and I met people, and um, the very first sort of serious job was um working for Jeff Slattery, and that was amazing. That that was the game changer for me. That was when I went, oh, this is what this is about. And I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Why is that amazing?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

The art center was an incredible experience with lots of people. It was a it was it was a different kind of life for me. It was party time really. Um but Slatteries was about produce, it was really getting back to the roots of really great food. It was in the time of um, you know, uh King Island, you know, just start King Island cream and all of a sudden there was produce. I was tasting things like Morton Bay bugs, I didn't know all of this stuff existed, French cheeses, we were making our own sourdough, everything was done from scratch the hardest possible way, in a tiny little kitchen that didn't even have we the chef at the time, Chris, um, was an ex-sailor and we didn't have enough bench space, so we'd go out and tie planks together with string and make benches, and we'd roll out pasture and whisk egg whites in copper, you know, one souffle at a time, you know, 60 set of restaurant, really hard work. It was amazing. I loved it. And it was um, they would say to me, and I knew nothing about restaurants still, and they'd say, I want you to go to John Smith's and get such and such. And I go, no worries, and I'd get my good food guide. Where the hell's that? And then and then drive and do my job. Um, yeah, and it was and really from there I just wanted to aim higher and higher and higher.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

So was that a period of inspiration? Did you get you, you know, we've gone from troublesome teenager who I was still pretty wild and exploited their first job to have a good time in Melbourne. And now we're at Slatteries who are working every hour under the sun, I assume. Yeah. So things have changed quite dramatically.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

I was a little bit naughty at trade school. Um still. I was doing my apprenticeship, but um we got there in the end. And um yeah, I just decided it was Did it go hand in hand?

SPEAKER_01 8:02

The naughtiness and the hard work? I mean I think so. It's that kind of Anthony Bourdain, you know, the waifs and trays, the waifs and strays, you know, the periphery of society working in kitchens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

I I like the insanity, I like the pre I love the pressure. And I also love the release of going, you know, at that time before King Street got really grotty, we'd go straight down to the nightclub straight after work. You know, Jacques Raymond was just in town at Mietas, and after that I'd go and after work, I'd go out and have my bowl of sorbet late at night and a glass of scotch, and I just thought it was the greatest thing in the world. And um, yeah, so from from there I um decided that I was going to aim, you know, keep trying to um Jeff sold his restaurant, so that was the end of that anyway. And I went for a job with Tansy and uh missed out on that because someone was coming back, and then someone got sick at Stephanie's and they called me in and I got that job. So I sort of moved in a different circle to a lot of other lot of other people that I ended up working with. I really wanted to travel overseas, but never really got the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yeah. But the restaurants you mentioned at the time were the best in that space. Tansy good. You know, people probably don't even remember now. And also Stephanie, it's it's a generation that's passing and people don't connect it anymore with the restaurant that it was, but the thing that she does now, which is the Kitchen Garden Foundation.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

You know, that was So it was a great time. It was incredible. I was incredibly lucky. And it was in a time when um Rocket was delivered in a bunch the back door at the back door by someone who grew it in Red Hill. It wasn't in supermarkets or it was all of this beautiful produce that I got to work with there. Um yeah, great experience. And then I decided to sort of break out of my moat. And if I fast forward and chop out all the middle parts, um I applied for a job, went on as a head chef, and found my business partners um from that era and ended up opening nine restaurants, having 350 full-time staff, nearly killing myself with stress.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

But that was an incredible time. So we're talking about Mecca.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Mecca bar.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Mecca Bar, Live Bait.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

What were the other ones?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Uh there were other ones that were sort of um, there was a it's such a long time. Yeah, and then there were other ones that were um a business partner had really wanting to keep cash coming in, so we um set up a place called Bar Bosch out in Knox, which was an unbelievable nightmare. So the opening night, a quick story because it's really funny. Opening night, the we had to um deliver this restaurant very quickly to fulfill a need for the developers. Someone had fallen out, my business partner had said, Yeah, we can do that. I opened the restaurant first night, everyone goes home, I say I'll lock up. There's no barrels in the door locks, there's no way of securing the building. So I slept in the restaurant that night.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

That's commitment.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

But you would have been thinking, oh my goodness, the cost of fit out, alcohol, equipment, everything. And if I just leave it, especially out there, it's just gonna get knocked off. Yeah. So and I remember, I was saying to Dave, the producer, because he's younger than we are. Yeah, I was saying, I remember a time you you probably don't remember it, but you rocked up out the back of Phoenix. So this would have been early in the 2000s, I reckon.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

In a silver Mercedes.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, I did. Um was Darren there then. Darren was working on the club.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

I think I think so. Yeah, yeah. So Kath rocks up to the back of the restaurant in a convertible silver Mercedes, and it must have been very early on in the piece at Phoenix, so Ray, Cabaldi, and my restaurant. And we were at that stage where it was just we were working so hard, and you rock up, and I went, that's Kath Claringbaugh. She has made it. Yeah, it's I still drive a Mercedes.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

It's a veto band.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

But they they were heady times, right? You would have been absolutely and rightly so at the top of your game. And um Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Well, I think so, because everybody knew who you were.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Careering out of control.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Is that what it was?

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Um, I think so. Um business partners need to open multiple businesses. It was and I was built in such a way that if someone said you need to do that, I'd say, okay, I'll work out how I can do that. I mean, we opened three restaurants in the space of three days. We opened Meccaba Live Bait and that place out at Bub out at Knox within three days. So that was recruiting staff, opening we opened them on different days. It was blistering. I don't think I slept. I certainly aged dramatically through that. I didn't sleep for about ten years.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Incredible times.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Um it was just, yeah, it was high stress and adrenaline and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

So so crazy times, heady times, and at the peak of your career. So rolling up at the back of Phoenix, is that when you met Darren? Where when was that?

SPEAKER_00 12:53

No, we um we met in Brisbane in 2004. I had just opened Mecca Bar in Brisbane in Fortitude Valley, and Darren was um on the um program for Brisbane Food Wine Festival, and as the um newest restaurant in town, I was hosting all of the major parties and all of the um important guests from overseas. And um I had been in Brisbane for six months working on this restaurant on my own a lot of the time, and um a friend of mine in Brisbane felt really sorry for me and felt I needed to be you know hooked up with someone. And at the at the cocktail party um that opened the Brisbane Food and Wine Festival, she introduced me to Darren, and he was with his head chef at the time, Andrew Turner, who I could not stand. And I instantly categorized Darren and Aaron and Andrew as the same person, and it was like, oh, forget about it, don't even talk to me. So I was it was a bit of a cold, frosty start until we got to um the dinner that was hosted at my restaurant, and um I smoked at that time, and so did Darren. We ended up outside in a quiet spot having a cigarette, and I said, Do you want to get out of here? And he said, Yeah, and we went to a bar in town and the rest is history, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

What time? I want to get out, I want to get out of here. You can see it, little dark corners. Because that's what chefs do, right? Little dark corners somewhere behind the restaurant. Do you want to get out of here?

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Totally antisocial and uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

What the hell were you doing in Brisbane?

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Well, it was uh that's another funny story because I I had no plan, no idea that I was ever going to end up living in Australia. Um, it was, I mean, you you if you're from the same sort of background as me working in those kitchens back in London, you know, Australia was like another world. I how how would I ever get there? I I had no idea that this place existed or there had restaurants over there. I was just working my ass off in London. Um, and this Brisbane masterclass opportunity arose after um an Australian chef called Shane Osborne, I'm sure everyone knows from Pieter Terra at the time. Pieter Terra was working in London. He had, I think he had two mission of stars at the time. He was invited to be the guest chef in Brisbane, um, but he his passport had expired. He couldn't get back into his own country. And um my head chef, Andrew Turner, I was working at a hotel called Bentley Hotel in Knightsbridge. Um, and they um approached Andrew Turner and said, Can you come out to Australia and present at a masterclass in three days? Um and he said, Yeah, okay, so long as I can take Darren, because uh, you know, we got on quite well, and I'd bust out a bit of Mise on Plus for him and let him uh let him let him socialise. Um, but I said, Yeah, yeah, for sure, I'd love to go. And then all of a sudden, sort of a few days later, I was I was in Brisbane and I was thinking, how the hell do I get here? This place is fantastic, the weather's awesome. Um, you know, I just couldn't believe it. And then I met Kath and um I wasn't great in social situations then, so I'm sort of, you know, having a drink in the corner, and Kath and I met, and when she said, Do you want to get out of here? I thought this is a this is a great opportunity to get get to know this person who um who looks I mean I knew nothing about her background, didn't really know that she had a profile. I didn't really know anyone with a profile then. Um, but we got on really extremely well and we seemed to like the same sort of things.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

We music brought us.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Music, you know. Well, we talk about um, you know, we we both sort of love the clash and um ska music and um uh all I Kath has introduced me to some music she loved that I now love and vice versa. So but yeah, um we we got on extremely well. We we found we love the same things, we love great restaurants, we love you know uh uh working hard and rewarding yourself at the end of the day with a glass of wine and but how long were you in Australia for? Well so I was only there for five days.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

So how can you figure out did well how did this stick? I we just really got on and So how did this stick? Because that moment could have come and gone. I mean, if some yeah good-looking chick had said to me with a cigarette in the corner, let's get out of here and go to the bar. I don't know if that would have turned into a long-term relationship. What happened was we s we spent the five days together.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Yeah right. Um so stuff Andrew Turner, he can't. Yeah, yeah, he can go and do what he wants to do. Well, he was off being head chef, you know, and he was schmeezing with yeah, and I'm I'm just you know, I'll bust out a bit of mise en plus for him, we'll get demo ready, and then I'll I'll go out and meet Caf. But um uh I was lucky enough to have a fishing trip arranged for me after the five days, and it was in Noosa, and um there was uh a restaurateur called Jim Barado, yeah, yeah, and um it was arranged, it was very fortunate that I could stay at his house with Andrew Turner. It was um arranged that I would go up there and do a fishing trip and stay at his house, and it was a very generous offer.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

And I had coincidentally, prior to all of this, booked my first day off and I booked a hotel in Noosa.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

And it was at the same time, but we didn't realise so you didn't realise.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Um he said, I'm going to Noosa.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

It sounds like to start off with that Australia just put on a hard sell scheme to Darren Purchase because you know to the best, the best places. You must be thinking, boy, boy out of London.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Wait, wait till he gets to Melbourne, he goes, What?

SPEAKER_02 18:33

This is what I was I was I so we spent the uh we spent a couple of days in Noosa and um you know we'd sort of arrange, we'd sort of said, you know, let's let's try and continue this. Caf said she would book a trip um and come and see me in London. So then I I returned to London and I said to everyone, right, I've met a girl, Australia's amazing place. I'm gonna try and work my way. I'm I'm leaving, I'm I'm coming to Australia, and that was basically my decision that I I took, and Andrew could see why. You know, I was smitten and I was come back and showing everyone the photos of this amazing place, and the the weather was you know awesome. I didn't know anything about Melbourne.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

I'm glad you put that in that order, Darren.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Um, but I didn't know anything about Melbourne.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

So so up to this point, I'm loving the story because I didn't know this. I've known you two for quite a while, and I didn't know any of this, and I think it's brilliant. And of course, then you won't end up in Melbourne. Yeah. So, like completely the opposite. You've gone from you know, this beautiful idea of what Australia best can offer. Although Melbourne's much same, but it's a it's a I understand it coming from London, and I've employed lots of people out of London over the years. They come thinking they're gonna live a home and away life, yeah, and then they come, they come to Melbourne and discover that it's actually a big city, very cosmopolitan, and they're working just as hard, if not harder.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah, I had I think I've worked harder in in Australia. I think many of us have got the same idea. Yeah, I have no idea, and I didn't I didn't know that anyone in Australia knew anything about food. I was quite arrogant. You know, I believe that my whole world in in London was the place to be. And I don't know what I was expecting, but I I guess fast forward, Kath visited me in London for a holiday, and then we we really decided that we wanted to, you know, try and make this work. So um it took me uh probably about a year, 12 months to get everything ready and get out to Australia.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

And came via Greece, did a quick stint in Greece.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

I worked for a billionaire in the world.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

That's a whole other story as well.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

There's a lot, there's a lot of stuff. How long we got, Dave, the budget.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

We'd love a story. Can we can we have a story?

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Uh Greece. Yeah, who was the billionaire? Uh he was like a shipping um magnate, I guess. Uh, and he was Greek, and he it was uh an island called Skinusa, and it's on the Cyclade Islands, group of islands, but it often doesn't show up on the map because it's really tiny. There's like 500 people live on this island, but it can swell to 2,000 in the summer, you know, with tourists. Um, and he owned a house on the point, um, which was one of the only beaches on the island, and it was a private beach for him, and he had a bunch of Aussies working in his household, I guess. And I think um Calf helped me uh secure that job. Paid quite well.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

And I was um working there as his pastry chef, drinking all of his wine and uh but spending his days cooking amongst all these amazing treasures like sculptures and I was noticing all of this, I was going wow.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

That's an incredible monument. Or that that um that egg over there looks quite expensive and this marble and um I I think if you Google it now, there's um the the caretaker has been done for uh It's all stolen. Stolen as pirates priceless Greek artifacts for dredged up from the edgy, and uh you know, and I I was literally Just sort of hanging around with this stuff, and often I didn't have a lot of work to do because if the family were away, you know, there's nothing for me to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

So this is what happens, Kath, when you take a boy from Guildford, yeah, right, shove him into a hotel in London, and then what, eight years later end up on a Greek island working for a billionaire? Yeah. You never thought of pocketing a little dimension.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

I wish I had. I wish I had. But um no, it uh it was yeah, it was fun time. I was slowly getting my way over to um Australia.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

So before before you came to Oz, did you have a particular idea of where your career was going? Because you worked at the Zavoy, you worked at Brown's, yeah. Um you're head pastry chef at um the Goring Hotel. The Goring Hotel. Yeah. So what kind of So you got a solid kind of traditional pathway as a great pastry chef in the making in London?

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yeah. I I started out in Greece. Where were you going at all? I started out in Grease washing up. Um and I didn't know I wanted to be a chef.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

This is prize.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Okay, so rewind before then. Yeah. Lots of time in grease.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

And then I just went for a good time.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

You had a ponytail guest.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Oh, you've got to make if you've got hair, I reckon you just go for the ponytail. Yeah. If Neil Perry can rock it for 60 years, it was a time.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Then you can have one. Yeah, it was a time. And luckily, uh, there was no Instagram or anything then, so there's not a lot of evidence. Yeah, it's very like a bad look. There's the odd photo. I'd like to see one on Instagram. Can you find one in playable?

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, I can find one.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

And uh I basically I worked the summer, summer season, I was washing up, and all of the chefs kept leaving because apparently it wasn't a great job. Um, it was a two-week menu, though, in a water sports resort. So by the end of the summer, I knew the menu and it was very basic in hindsight. Um, but I I was captivated by kitchens, I just loved like the hustle and bustle. And I think the chef um said to me, Can you can you become a chef and do the last couple of months? Because all these chefs kept le keep leaving, and you know, you know the menu. And I went, Yeah, great. So I loved it. I was in there all the time and I I would I would just spend all day in there and while everyone was trying to get out and enjoy the sun. I just really loved being inside the kitchen. I'd kind of I think I had these romantic ideas that I was this creative chef now, even though I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Um, I would, you know, fill it uh an orange, like do orange segments and think that I was a chef. I came back.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

But when you l when you first learn how to do that, yeah, I don't know if you can rewind the clock that far. I remember doing it. I think it's quite you go, wow, yeah, it's fancy.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

I I didn't go fancy. I do, I do. Um, and I came back to the UK and um told my mum chef now, and she she just started laughing at me, you know. She said, I've been cooking for 40 years, Darren. You just don't start telling me how to do the dinner. Um, and so I I thought, right, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and make this happen. So I went to work for that same company in France for the winter season. So I was a chef in a restaurant in France, still unqual un qualified. And after that, I went to work in Jersey, um, where I went to um school, catering school, one day a week, and I got my city and guilds, um, and then came back to London and and said, right, well, I've just I need a job. I went to the Savoy Hotel for an open day. I saw an advert in the Evening Standard, and they said there's an open day for chefs, and I saw some guy making Peach Melbourne um and telling the story of how it was invented in this hotel. And I was just I I I had to work there, it it blew my mind. I wanted to be a part of the history of this place, and they were saying all the famous people who stayed there, and and uh in the kitchen there was 120 chefs, and it was they showed me around, and it just looked like the mental place that I wanted to work at, and and most people would stay there for a year, and they would leave after 11 months and work, give uh 30 days' notice because if you worked there for a year, you'd get a piece of paper certificate saying you work there for a year, and they wouldn't do any more because it was such a tough place to work. But I I was there for three and a half years. My chef said, Darren, you've got to leave soon. You can't you can't stay here forever. So has you gotta go? Hot kitchen too, or just pasture. Well, I started off. I started off in the garden making club sandwiches for room service, but I wanted to work in the pastry, so I was just pestering chef the whole time. Like, when can I work in the pastry? I just I went down there, it smelt nice, and I do reasonably, I like it. Well, we used to have chef meetings in the cold fish and like all these, it just stunk in there. And I used to think, why can't we have meetings in pastry? Because it just it smells really nice, smells like grass. It was nice and tidy, but I I really loved it. There were bet there were bakers in there, they still had bakers then. They were making all their own venoiserie and bread, they did all their own ice creams, they did chocolate, they did everything. There was like eight sections in the in the pastry section, and I just really wanted to work there. I just thought that's that's what I want to do. I just I still love food, and I'd been cooking savory my whole time up until this point in Jersey and in France and in Greece. I was cooking savory.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, but I wanted to work in the pastry, and I got my opportunity and then I rose quickly through the ranks. It kind of makes sense now why you did Peach Melbourne on Master Chef to reinvent that moment. Yeah, love it. Yeah, and also why you've got a book on toasties. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

Because I've got to be section that's avoid. I like it, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

I love making this series, and I hope that you love listening too. If you do, subscribe and send us a message because believe it or not, we actually read those messages. What we want to know is what you think about the show, and more importantly, about the conversations that we have with our guests. We love hearing from you. That's what I'm trying to say. You can do that wherever you listen, and if you're feeling like it, maybe even recommend the show to a friend. You never know, they might find it as delicious as you do. So before you came to Australia, before you met Kath, where was the career going? Had had you put your mind on opening a business or just being the exec poster chef in a big assistant. Yeah, no, I had no plan.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

He was living March.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

I I didn't know what I was doing. I was I I was um burning the candles. I think uh 2004, what was I? I was I was like 29, 20 at 30. So we're getting to a point where we're having to make it but I was still quite immature in my um life choices. I would be out quite often.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

I know 60 year olds that are doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

I'm quite jealous, so it's okay. Um so I didn't, I just I had no plan. And and you know what it's like back in the UK. Like I I never thought that there was an opportunity for me to have my own business. Um, I didn't think that I would ever get to write cookbooks or do anything like that. It was just it was like a bit of a grind. I was on this, you know, the hamster wheel, and I was just going and I was just working all day every day and then going out and having a few drinks and then not sleeping very well and then going back to work.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

And it's all work, and then obviously if if you're in that all work, all play, then you are Berlin you candle on both ends. It's not the healthiest lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

No, I and I literally had no plan about where where I was going. Um I was pretty lost looking back at it. I didn't really know, and I was I feel very fortunate that I had this opportunity and I landed in Melbourne and I said, Where's the sun? Brisbane was sunny. Um but we I moved in with Kath in St Kilda and she gave me the good food guide and said, We better get a job.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Um and so to be honest, when you put your resumes together, because here you worked at View de Mont, you worked at Phoenix for a period of time with us, yeah. Uh you were a consultant chef with George, I remember, correct in the May group. So expanding that. Because remember, I think the wagon wheels turned up at your version of the wagon wheel turned up about them, which we were like, this is incredible. So you got resumes to die for. When did the idea of putting your experience together and and starting a pastry shop that you'd never dreamt of? Well, back in England.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Well, once I'd landed in Australia, I'd realised that there was opportunity out here for someone who who's passionate and someone who can work hard. It seemed that things were more achievable or attainable.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

There's um less rules. It it it was, you know, I mean, we were really fortunate in Melbourne where you can open up a business in almost anything, a shipping container, or you can do whatever.

SPEAKER_04 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

And I think um, and we're also that business sort of came around in the time we we had a break from what we were doing and we started consulting from home. We worked, we I think we spent about three years working together from home doing different sorts of assignments. They was really varied. Darren did some work in Spain and Twitter and Twitter had just started, and we were starting to learn that whole kind of thing, and it just seemed like it would be a really cool idea to open, you know, Darren was making custom cakes to people for people um at home, and we were doing classes and all sorts of stuff. Um and we were living, it was like the greatest three years because we called our own hours, a little bit scary sometimes because you didn't know where a buck was going to come from, but um, we caught our own hours. We played a lot of we tea, we what do you call it? Wii sport. It was hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Well what basically what happened was these little things when people go and shop now, yeah, they're gonna go in and go, Wii sport. I know, you know, I know. So can you can you just paint us a picture of Daz and Kath playing Wii Sport? No, come on!

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Look, what what happened was Kath Kath's businesses were um came to an abrupt end.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Um they did for me. I had to get out. I my health was, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Her health, yeah, was not great. Her stress levels were through the roof, body was falling apart. What did that look like to you? Well, it was quite scary. Um, and I could see that I I mean it Kath did not look very well, and she was I mean, she's always worked extremely hard. I just couldn't believe the amount of hours she was putting in, and I think the last sort of throws of trying to make the business work was in Canberra. She had a restaurant in Canberra and she was just doing everything, getting up like stupid hours.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Three businesses in one kind of location. So I'd do breakfast shift in the morning, um, then open up Mecca Bar. It was sort of like the first business was a breakfast um wine and cheese providor. It was like the wine and cheese providor in Melbourne. And then Mecca Bar would open uh Mecca Bar would open for lunch and dinner, and there was a cocktail bar that would go into the late night. And I'd yeah, I just sort of work walked this circuit for about six months, and I remember I had we had to be rushed to hospital. Both my knees imploded. I couldn't even walk because I just I had to rush in for surgery. And how did you feel about that at the time?

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Yeah, I f I I felt you know extremely sad. I could see that um I could see that this whole empire or this this thing that Kath had built, and it was successful because of Kath and her work ethic and her talent was being eroded in the background by There were others involved, and it you know, it was as things as things happen in life, but you know, that's so that was kind of coming to an end.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

So was there a point where who who made the decision? Did you turn around to Kath and go, you you're gonna die if you keep doing this?

SPEAKER_00 33:40

No, I made the decision. And what was what was the um I think it was my third trip to hospital for something for third. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

So the first one didn't send your messages.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

I was I was like a machine. You know, I I would literally, I could work a hundred hours a a a week without any hesitation. I really you you gave me a challenge, I would go, okay, I can do that. And so I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing. And I wasn't smart enough to see at the time that I probably should get out. I wish I'd uh got out a lot sooner.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah. But benefit of hindsight, that was a wonderful thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

But you learn so many things through lots of negative situations, and um it's certainly shaped the sort of business that we have to a degree, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Well, a lot. I think you know, the fact that we've still only got one shop as opposed to you know multiple, which is the tried and trusted or uh tested or the traditional route, you know, you open one, it's successful, you open start opening more. CAF has been very guarded against uh uh well, guarded in our progression or our you know, development as a business. She whereas I if if we weren't working together and I'd have had, you know, um not calf's benefit of hindsight or wise words, um, you know, I could possibly have just followed the same route, you know, where you uh you're opening stuff and and working and you don't know with a factory everyone's there four or five shops.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Every everyone's there, every developer's there to hand out money and you know, give you a fit-out contribution, all those sorts of things that are and it's really easy to build a big group of restaurants, you know, before you know it, turn around. But um it doesn't necessarily mean they're not it's not easy for them all to be profitable.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

But to but to paint the picture for people that haven't been to your shop. I mean, if I think if you live in Melbourne and you're a foodie or well, not just Melbourne, I mean you you get people from all over the world. Yeah, we do. If people are listening to this and they haven't been to the shop, then it's kind of a willy wonker-ish, yeah, you know, wonderful shop with I mean, it's got so many products in there. I mean, I go in there, I'm like, guys, don't look at them all, because you you're gonna walk out a poor man. You've had some famous customers too, haven't you?

SPEAKER_02 35:53

We have lots. Come on, tell us. Well, we're in the that pocket South Yara where um uh you know everyone sort of seems to congregate. So depending on what event it is on in town, you know, you'll get all the tennis players in for the Australian Open.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

We got to do Ronan Keating's wedding. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

I I remember you telling me a story about transporting a cake, I think. Was that for Ronan Keating's wedding?

SPEAKER_00 36:14

We took 220 kilos of handmade chocolate and equipment to um Scotland via Heathrow. And to drive a van from Heathrow to Scotland. And we spent three days preparing on a golf course um in Berwick, North Berwick.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Yeah, it was um it was remote, but it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Deer jumping around the property and bunnies. It was just it was so Scotland we all imagine.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

It was there you are with 250 kilos a kit trying to put together a kit.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Well, you know, when you do, you know, a gig overseas or somewhere, you don't know what the kitchen's gonna be like. So I I make sure that I can pull off an event if if asked. So that means preparing as much as possible and taking it with me because you never know what you're gonna get there. Um, so it there was kind of a dessert bar setup or or you know, confectionery bar or lolly table or whatever you want to call it, sweet station. So we did that, but the cake we made there. Um, so we got some local produce and just sort of we whipped up something quite simple, but it was raspberries and stuff like that. Amazing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

And it was it was Daz had to um elbow with Ed Sheeran for the limelight that night.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Well tell us more. Um, so they wanted the cake set up um all day for people to sit, or all evening for people to see it, but of course, because it's a fresh cake, can't sit out for hours. So I kind of made a dummy cake and it was out on display, and they said they were going to cut the cake at about seven o'clock. Uh so I I was not drinking, we're on a very um lovely table as guests, and we're all dressed up, but I wanted to make sure that the cake went, you know, got cut properly and distributed properly properly before I, you know, um decided to relax. Um and it was quite a theatrical wedding, so everyone was um performing at some point.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

It was beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Um, but it was it was dragging on a bit, and about 10 o'clock they hadn't cut the cake, and I was just panicking the whole time. And then they said, right, we're gonna cut the cake. So that meant that I had to go into the kitchen, grab the real cake, and do a bit of a swap. So I went into the kitchen and um In the meantime.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Um I they had a surprise um guest song for um Ronin and organized Ed for Storm for Sharp.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

As you do, you just you know, four legs and slicking. Chiron's in the kitchen uh with the with his guitar, and I'm standing by the door with with and he's in front of me. And I said, What are you doing then? He said, Well, I'm I'm doing the music. He said, Did you know who did you know who he was?

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Well, not really, ton of.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I knew who it was, and he said, What are you doing? I said, Well, I'm doing I'm doing the catering. And I had the cake, so we swapped spots. I went on first and I swapped the cake over. Um, and then Ronan and Storm came over and and cut the cake, which was the cue for the first dance. So I did all of those Vareens, the dessert tubes, and they got distributed amongst the guests as the music started, and they they and all the guests huddled around the dance floor with a dessert. Birchin purchased dessert, and um the music came on, it was Ed Sheeran song, and Storm had her back to the stage and they started dancing, and of course he sneaked on and then he started singing the we started drinking.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah, we started drinking.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

He started singing the first line, and she turned around and was like, Oh my god, it's Ed Sheeran, and then it just turned into this you know amazing evening of him getting up and you know playing a few tunes, and he was also sitting next to us on our table because we had a spare seat. Has he popped into the shop? No, no, it's not a warning, isn't it? He really knows much. He just remembers a guy with a cake.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Yeah, he's somewhere doing a podcast telling the same story.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Oh, I hope so, but the guy with a cake.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

We've been very lucky to do um that was the most challenging logistically, that one. That was you know, I had to hold flowers on in a flight, chocolate flowers, and make sure they weren't smashed in for 24 hours, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yeah, we we took a lot of stuff. Like I said, you you never know what you're gonna get over there.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

You don't know if if he likes to pack a lot.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

You've obviously had some amazing experiences and also I mean working together, so in business together. So not we're not just working together, we're in business together, and you live together as well. Yeah. Incredible times. What are the not so incredible times? Is there a point where you've just gone, this is not gonna work?

SPEAKER_00 40:48

I think there's always I think there's always tough times, especially in business, but I can honestly say that pretty much we have we have no hassles. It's it's remarkable to me because um, you know, historically restaurant couples never survive. Yeah. You know, there's a there's you know, record of that across decades. Um and I was a little bit hesitant. I wondered how we would go. But I think those three three years that we worked together at home, I knew we'd be fine. And we really genuinely are fine.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Yeah, we love each other's company. There's there's I mean, there's pressures in business, of course, and and you know, there's there's a couple of times, you know, Kath could snap or I could snap at her at work, but it it's very minimal in terms of we spend uh uh every single moment of every single day together. And I just feel extremely lucky that I've met someone that I can share my entire life with, and um we laugh all day, we listen to music, we um you know, we we we confide in each other and we support each other.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Um when I'm going crazy at Telstra, don't calm me down, and you see, yeah, or if he's going crazy at our 2,000 desserts that aren't going anywhere and you're calming him down.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Yeah, so we just it it it really works.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

But what's the secret though? What do you reckon it is? Because it is unusual. I mean, Mandy and I, my wife and I tried working together, and Mandy said to me, She goes, You're horrible at work. And I said, What do you mean I'm horrible? And she said, You're just really direct and because she'd never experienced me in a professional environment before. And then all of a sudden she's at Phoenix. I go, and I don't like this at all. So we tried it for a while and then went, you know what, it's better we stay, we keep keep it business and personal apart.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

I guess um for me, I mean, I was running kitchens and I was direct. And even though I'm an introvert, I mean that's that's a that's another success, really. I'm introverted, he's extroverted, he loves the limelight. I do not I had to do that in an earlier life, but I don't really um so we So you don't want to do it anymore. I don't want to do it anymore. I don't have any interest in it at all. Um, it isn't a need I need to fulfill. And but I having been there and done it, I also know that I can support incredibly well. Um so he does the things I don't want to do. I do things that he doesn't want to do. We both really love what we've created in the shop. We both really love the we love the reaction of people that walk in for the very first time that we tried to create something that had so much going on that people would be wowed for the whole time they were in there. And I think we've done that really well.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Um and we get to laugh a lot and yeah, it's just it's it's easier to I mean had had we been doing this business together like independently, so say, for example, it was just sort of me and Caf was doing something else, I I would probably be a different person, Caf. Um teaches me to behave myself sometimes, you know. It's kind of I've kind of changed the way that I am as a person working. with a cat.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

And vice versa. I Darren te has taught me not to stress out about um certain things that you know. I mean the classic line he said to me, you know, you you literally you you work in retail. You can't be offended by, you know, you've got to Yeah, you work in a shop calf, you know. So don't be you can't be offended by by people, you know. So he has really he's brought out all the best characteristics in me and f and we and we keep growing on that every day.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

And working through pressures in business together is easier than doing it on your own. And we're quite creative. We're obviously a very good team together and we've got um a lot of skills and a lot of experience among us in in in our years. So um we've got a a great chance of you know make making this business work which is you know it's it's hard to run a business.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Well people work for you I mean they're you know in the presence of two people that have been in I mean what's the combined experience?

SPEAKER_04 45:00

It's a lot of 50 years or 60 50 years.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Because it's a lot I guess some of the guys uh who work for us if they listen to this podcast they'd be probably be quite surprised that CAF had a profile of restaurants. You know it's kind of a new generation they'd well they're young. When I walk in there and look how young they are yeah I'd see them behind the glass and they wouldn't know that was a chef um because they see her running around but do they see the creative process between you or in the business is it for is the kind of delineation really you know clear?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Our kitchen door and our retail space are open spaces and so we all work together. All of us work together. The whole team. In you know that there's no sort of there's no separation.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

So even the girls who work in the front most of them are qualified pastry chefs and they'll come in and roll cookies and they help you know we pack everything in that on that marble table most of our business decisions happen on that table.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Most of our business meetings happen on that table. Every now and again we'll have a brainwave and Darren I'll say to everyone you've just seen us having a business meeting. It is it's really like that. Yeah you know it's not it's fun.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

And doing stuff that you love to do and so busy and you also get a little bit of chance to do some acting as well.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

What the hell in the loosest sense of the word I you know um I I'm I'm so thrilled to uh have had a cameo a couple of times on neighbours um yeah not just once it was a couple of times a couple of times they asked you back well I'm angling for a third but um so if Jason is listening to this Jason Herbert and the executive producer I'll be happy to come back. You've got a little storyline of what you want oh yeah yeah you've got a picture storyline so you've got your product at uh yeah so it's funny um people say you know where can we buy your products you know can we get them anywhere anywhere else in Australia and we always we we laugh and say you can get them on Chapel Street and Ramsey Street because our products are stocked in Harold store on neighbours um and that's just such fun for us. If it's very subliminal and it's in the background you'll often see one of the characters stocking the shelves with our products so that's fun. And my cookbooks are also found on set so if ever a um character's flicking through a book it's often it's often one of my cookbooks they're very generous to me they get but they know I'm a huge neighbours fan being from the UK. Yeah so what does your mum and dad what do your mum and dad think of that because back in Guilford yeah that's the highlight of their that's literally the best thing I've ever done they've been on set oh they've been out to Ramsey Street where's the set is it two different places I don't even know there's I still see the bus going out yeah Ramsey Street the street um which is close to the set in Nanawadding but it's like neighbours world it's got its own postcode there's hundreds of people work there and it's fantastic they take it all extremely seriously art department are uh on with the props it's unbelievable they've got every single prop ever used and neighbours and continuity on neighbours is is they always throwing it back um you think seriously when you when they went I don't know what they do do they go to action well yeah you've got your bit i what were you thinking were you I actually did I had a bit of a panic when they went action because they they no one checked with me they didn't say you know have you learnt your lines it yeah I just rocked up and they're assuming that and I had obviously learnt my lines but um I I've never acted before so I I asked one of the actors in the green room just for quick acting quick tips got two minutes or was it I want to know it was a good two minutes but whatever.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

It was don't wait until um uh your fellow actor finishes their sentence jump in and start your line before because otherwise it looks sort of stage it looks like you're saying something and then I'm saying so I took that on board and um I was I'm an extra on that episode and you're an extra as well yeah we had a Birch and purchase episode where we set up a dessert bar to raise money um for Toadie's new wheelchair because um Paul Robinson who obviously knows all the chefs in Melbourne organised for us to come in and we yeah we unfortunately Toadie was in a wheelchair for about three months because of us I think that was the way they wrote us into the um but yeah it's fun there's lots of people have been on neighbours lots of UK people I'm surprised you haven't been on there guys yeah you know what's interesting my connection my next my connection to neighbours was my before I left the UK I was working at the the Le Souffle at the Intercontinental and I was on straight shifts unb quite progressive at the time to be honest and I'd start at two o'clock I think in the afternoon finish at 12 something like that and I I had to leave the house when the neighbour's theme tune pinged up on the screen weird wasn't it yeah pottering around I hear the neighbours theme tune and go gotta go gotta go.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Yeah yeah plans for the future what's what's uh on the horizon oh gosh not ten Birch and purchase stores we've always been conscious we want one special one but we know we need to grow in the right way we we um we're I guess we're still sort of working it out really but the first thing is a bit of a holiday to um reset and recharge.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

And we know what our end game is.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

What's the end game? And that's a um pizza oven somewhere in our backyard far away from the city growing lots of produce and so is that the dream you want to live out in country Victoria somewhere or possibly um back in the UK would you move back I think we love it over here too much.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

But yeah not too far from the city but far enough to be food centric.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

You know we want to be making sourdough every day we want to be um you know cooking pizzas in our pizza oven we want to be growing amazing projects we learned how to make salami this year that was amazing yeah and our our salami's beautiful yeah well Darren and Kat thank you very much it's been a pleasure thank you we could talk for hours yeah um and maybe I'll get you know when I'm old I'll get an invite down to that country property to taste a salami you're you're first on the list guy cheers thanks for coming in thank you thank you you all know that I've got a sweet tooth I mean let's be honest most of us do and one of my go-to quick dessert recipes is a quick chocolate mousse and it's not something that goes in the refrigerator this is a make and eat on the couch if you will share if you will it's delicious 200 grams of dark unsweetened chocolate preferably 70% you know what I mean you go to the supermarket you look along the lines you pick the one that's 70% it's a little bit bitter. Coarsely chop it melt it in the microwave you add two teaspoons of either olive oil or my preference is a hazelnut oil because I'm a little fancy sometimes and then you need one little tub of cream they're normally about 350 mils of thickened cream lightly whip it and then you're ready to go you take a little bit of that whipped cream and then you fold it into the melted chocolate and oil and then you take the rest of that cream and then fold it through and to be honest it doesn't matter whether it's completely incorporated or not I mean we're not talking fancy it's almost like a marbled effect. And you know what? Have a spoonful of that it's light it's delicious it's warming and it's addictive. I hope you enjoyed that chat and don't forget to let me know who you'd love me to talk to. I'll call anybody make sure you subscribe to my podcast so you can keep updated with new episodes as they launch.