From Lived Experience to Vigilant Living | Barbara Jordan

What happens when tragedy becomes a mission?
In this powerful episode of Three Sips to Shots Fired: What Happens Before the Sirens, Lori Baxley sits down with Barbara Jordan, founder of Always BEV, personal safety educator, speaker, and advocate for vigilant living.
Barbara's journey began with an unimaginable loss—the murder of her sister, Beverly.  Rather than allowing that tragedy to define her, Barbara transformed her grief into a mission to educate, empower, and protect others.
Together, Lori and Barbara explore:
✅ The story behind the creation of Always BEV
✅ The warning signs we often overlook
✅ Why intuition frequently begins with the thought, "That's weird"
✅ Situational awareness and personal safety for everyday life
✅ Lessons for Realtors, professionals, and anyone who meets strangers as part of their work
✅ The difference between living in fear and living with awareness
✅ How tragedy can be transformed into purpose
This conversation is not just about personal safety. It is about resilience, courage, healing, and learning to move through the world with greater awareness.
At the heart of this discussion is the belief that preparation is not paranoia—it is empowerment.
About Barbara Jordan
Barbara Jordan is the founder of Always BEV, a nonprofit organization created in memory of her daughter, Beverly Carter. Through speaking engagements, training programs, media appearances, and community outreach, Barbara helps individuals and organizations improve situational awareness, personal safety, and violence prevention.
🌐 Website: alwaysbev.com
📱 Instagram: @always_bev

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today we are joined by Barb Jordan. Before we dive in, I have to say I was immediately drawn to her athletic background. I have such fond memories of competing in sports in the Department of Defense schools throughout Europe. So hearing her story resonated with me. I know firsthand the discipline, resilience, and mindset athletics can build. And I've been incredibly impressed by everything she's gone on to accomplish since. For those getting to know Barbara today, her background is truly remarkable. Barbara Jordan has been featured as a personal safety expert on national media outlets including ABC, NBC, CBS, and Inside Edition. She has traveled the world as an elite coach, athlete, broadcaster, and instructor, a former collegiate three-time All-American, three-time national champion, and seven-time gold medalist with USA softball as both a player and a coach. Barbara knows what it means to train, lead, and perform under pressure. But Barbara's story also includes something deeply personal. After experiencing predatory violence and trauma firsthand, she turned that experience into a mission, helping others better understand vigilance, situational awareness, and how to recognize concerning behavior before it escalates. Through her platform Always Bev, Barbara teaches practical tools for personal safety from reading body language and using your voice effectively to self-defense fundamentals and situational awareness in everyday environments. She's trained in Krav Maga, certified in active shooter response training, and has become a trusted voice in helping people move through the world with greater confidence. Not by living in fear, but by learning what to notice, how to interpret what feels off, and what to do next. Today, we're not talking about what happens after something goes wrong. We're talking about what shows up before it does, the subtle cues, the moments that feel slightly off, and why so many people miss them. Because the truth is, the signals are often there. We just don't always recognize them in time. Barbara, I'm really glad that you're here and I'm glad that you're out there doing what you're doing. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah, Lori, thank you. Thank you so much for having me and for that introduction. Well, our goals and our thought process is to prevent tragedy and trauma from happening to others.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Right. I think you just recently have a new credential added on. What was that one? I can't keep up.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

It was it's education in crowd management for sporting events or large events. So it's kind of just again identifying warning signs, identifying things that are at that are out of place. It's ever like my whole thought process is preventative. As you mentioned, Lori, like there's always cues, there's always signals. It's not about like somebody just came out of nowhere. Like, really, whenever you hear a story like that, you see it. They saw ahead of time, but then they disregarded it. So anything I do, anything I train in, I'm always trying to learn about the warning signs.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Yeah, and like what we've seen in the headlines, you know, the crowds are big targets, the mass casualty.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, and you know, people are people vacationing, you know. We often hear about, you know, these stabbings in Europe, you know, on the trains. And I'm like, at what point did people see them? You know, there was one another time, you know, somebody let off a smoke bomb on a subway in New York, and I'm thinking they had a backpack. They had to put that backpack on the ground, they had to unzip it, they had to pull out this giant smoke bomb. At what point do people have the awareness to see it and then have the skill to actually tell somebody like we have a situation here before it happens?

SPEAKER_00 3:42

What would compel more organizations and groups to give you a call and to have you out there? I want you out there more, you know?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

It's not a fortune to have somebody come in and talk to people. And so, but it's often on the back burner. You know, people put says as as important as we know it is, people that are leaders, as important as they know it is, they don't make a budget for it. It doesn't fit budgets. And in today's world, safety for everybody, for students, for workers, for neighborhoods, communities, organizations, places of worship, it should be a priority because people are being targeted. People, you know, there's predators out there just looking for opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, the magnitude of those mass shooting incidents and what happens on college campuses, what happened with Idaho four. Did you notice any difference in the way the administration was handling their safety uh awareness programs?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Uh, I think some people, you know, get alarmed. I actually went to the University of Idaho after the those four students were killed, actually went to the house. Wow. And that uh it was. Do you want me to tell you a little bit about where it was located? Because not a lot of people realize like how isolated this house was. You know, it's a very small college town, and you actually come down the main boulevard, so that one main road from Washington State where he came from to the University of Idaho. I mean, it's like an eight-mile stretch, and then you just come upon the sign, University of Idaho, make a right, and you make a right, and you drive past the university and you go up this windy residential, and it's circles and it's circles, and you keep going up narrow roads, you know, no street lights, only stop signs, all residential, mostly probably a lot of college people. And I thought to myself, how could he be up here so many times and nobody notice? How could he be up here so many times and nobody say anything? And yet there I was after this happened, and I was there in the middle of the day, walked around. I always like to walk the college campuses and kind of see what the people are up against. I mean, I was invisible. I was invisible in that neighborhood. I walked the college town into coffee shops, people didn't even look up. And I just thought, God, you guys just went through some horrible tragedy here. And the lack of awareness was astonishing to me, just astonishing.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Even in that climate, that it was still the awareness level was still so low.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah. It you know, where the house was located, like I mean, unless he was always there in the middle of the night, which I don't believe was the case, there's no way that somebody didn't notice him. But, you know, do people notice? Do people notice somebody that doesn't fit? Do people notice people loitering? Do people notice somebody sitting in their car? Do they notice somebody just pacing back and forth? Like these are the signs. And when somebody doesn't fit, you know, you don't take your eyes off of somebody like that. You text a neighbor and you say, Do you know who that is across the street? Maybe you call the local police and say, Everything's fine, but can we get a police officer to drive by? There's some man in our neighborhood that doesn't seem to belong. Like awareness and drawing attention to the things that don't fit keep us safe.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Wow. And you know, I remember in college, I used to run a lot, and I would run five miles down country roads near a college campus. And I look back thinking, we are we are so unaware at that age. I really believe it's up to administrators and family members to try to do something to reinforce that.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, Lori, I have two thoughts on that. One for the leaders, administrators, teachers, faculty, whoever it is. I do think it is a responsibility. And I always say that when I start my classes, like, they brought me here, which says they care about you. Like that's that's that's what they're saying. And so I give that person accolades for doing that. But I think the other thing that goes a long way, because wherever I speak and whoever I speak to, the the level of awareness with audiences is always different. Families that talk about the hard topics, those people have so much more awareness. When I'm speaking, they're like, they're nodding their head yes, like they've heard some of this, they understand it on a different level. While some other people, their mouths are wide open, like they're like, what? And they're like, you know, like this stuff's happening every day across the country, across the world. I don't say that, but some people, and so the level of awareness is so different. And always encourage parents, and the parents that do, like my parents were that way, like, talk about like I always say, like for the college groups or the high school groups, I always say, I know your parents always say, Text me when you get there, and they're all everybody's like, call me when you get there, let me know you're okay, send me a text. And everybody nods their heads, and I go, This class is why. This is why they're telling you to do that. They're not telling you why. I'm going to tell you why they're doing that. And so we, you know, we get into it. And so it's really not about scaring them, it's about creating that awareness. Like, hey, these things do happen, and guess what? And then I show them pictures of victims, and guess what? They look just like them. You know, they're just like them. They're 18 years old and they went off on spring break and they never came home because they made a bad decision to leave a bar or a party with somebody who they didn't know, you know, or they were highly intoxicated and left without their friends. And so there's all these teaching points. But, you know, you know, like when people think it's not gonna happen to me, it's gonna happen, you know, and it's not a threat and it's not a problem, but most likely your guard is down and some opportunist somewhere has their eye on you and they're just waiting for the right opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

It's a reality that needs to be discussed, but it doesn't have to be a discussion of instilling fear. Um, so what is it when you get a call to come and talk? What are they looking to learn from you?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

I think about the awareness. I think sometimes they have concerns. Like I got a actually taught at Bemidji State, this is like pre-COVID, so 2018 or 19. And the woman that called me at the time was a college athlete who I spoke to. And now here she was a high school coach somewhere in northern Minnesota, and she goes, you know, the the young women, young girls on our team, high school girls, they're having some problems. We gotta have you come up here. And of course, you know, it was a tug-awar for her with her administration, with the school district to find the money. Here you go, $2,500 to bring me up to talk to 75 young women about sexual assault prevention, about what sexual assault is. So when you are kissing somebody and you're you're all into it, but the next thing you know, they unbutton your pants and you go, no, no, no. I go, and do you know if they keep trying to unbutton your pants and you're telling them no? I go, do you know what that is? And they look at me and I go, that's a sexual assault. I go, do you know if you're sleeping at a sleepover and somebody crawls on top of you and starts kissing you? I go, do you know what that is? And they look at me, I go, that's a sexual assault, you know. And so we start, and then you could see their minds going and they're starting to understand, like, my God, like this stuff's happening to us. Like they are, you know, putting their hands on me and I'm telling them no and things like that. And I go, and that's really what you want. And this program is also so good for young men, because the young men, they think it's funny and they think that, you know, it's powerful. They can do this to young women and the women can't stop them. But what they don't recognize is that it's a sexual assault. And so it's it is like I just did a a class in Chicago for these young men. And I was like, we like at the very end of the class, I go, if you are being intimate with a woman and you are kissing her, and you are I can't even believe I have these conversations and I'm like, and you think it's going great and you want to take it farther. I go, what are two questions you can ask her when you are with her? And this is like after we went over everything. And this young man in the back of the room, he raises up his hand and I see him through the crowd and I point to the back of the room and he goes, Are you okay? Is this okay? And I thought to myself, God, we saved somebody. We saved a young man, we saved a young woman. And to me, that's what it's all about. Like, you know, you know, like not everyone in the world is gonna be interested in in our social media posts, and that's okay. But if we make a difference with one post and somebody might be domestic violence, who knows what it is, and someone identifies with it and says, that's right, that's happening to me. Like, oh, that's what I need to do to stay safe. Like, that's it. Like, it's not about reaching the millions. We hope we reach millions, but the bottom line is if we can just start saving some people and educating some people, that's gonna have a big ripple effect along the way.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

It means a lot. And to your point, too, the lines seem to get fuzzy for uh people under peer pressure and in environments, big environments like that. And the problem is that it's not only the victims that are gonna suffer, it's the poor judgment of the offender, the young man. You know, he's gonna pay for many years if things go wrong. So it's uh yeah, I hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

I've spoken at ESPN, I've spoken to the women of the NHL, I've spoken at FedEx corporate office, the Cheesecake Factory. And, you know, everyone always thinks like it does, like it doesn't matter where you work, what neighborhood you live in, like, you know, it doesn't matter, you know, w who you are, where you live economically, like violence happens to everybody. The theory of is I work here, I live in a nice neighborhood, like all those are fantasies from you know 20 or 30 years ago. Like crime finds its way to people, and violence can find their way to people if we give them those opportunities. So if we can all work together, we can limit those opportunities and we can keep ourselves, our families, our friends, and our community safe.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

I'd like to see more people accepting the realities, you know. And uh, we're a a country that is privileged in many ways. There's a lot of people that are aware, but I think it's good to be able to focus on those people that think it won't happen to them. You know, I think of my mother. She goes, Don't worry about me. If someone comes in here, I'm gonna bake them some cookies and everybody'll be happy and fine. You know, she thought she was being funny too, but people don't want to be bothered with thinking about it. But you don't have to think about it in it to the degree that it's consuming your thoughts, your time, and causing a lot of fear. You can put it in perspective. And so that's what people like you are doing is spreading that word.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

And I wow, you're sweet. Last week I went to Los Angeles and I spoke to Sinai Temple, which was really my first big class for a place of worship. And I would say the audience was 50 to 70 years old. Um, here they are living in Los Angeles, Jewish community, you know, somebody, people that are targeted on a regular basis, that have, you know, had a lot of violence across the world against them. And they knew the stories, you know, that I brought up. Like, are you familiar with this? You know, this young couple walks outside and somebody had been pacing back and forth, you know, and they're like, yes, yes, yes. But when you start to talk to them about everyday situational awareness, everyday skills to stay safe, getting gas, walking through a parking lot, getting groceries, loading your groceries, loading your luggage, like people really have no idea that there is like a process for doing these things without being on guard. I always say, like, you don't need to get gas like this. You don't need to do that. But hey, if you're gonna stand outside the gas, you know, outside, that's okay. But how about with your back to the gas pump? Because no one's coming through the gas pump. And people like, can I stand with my back to the car? I go, you know, you can, but you know, worst case scenario, they dive under the car and grab your ankles, and people, somebody out there is gonna say, is that really gonna happen? I'm like, I don't know, because they slide and they come through their passenger side to get your purse. So anything's possible. But I always just talk about position yourself in the best way where no one can come up from behind you. Like what we're trying to eliminate is the element of surprise. Because if we see them coming, we're in a much better position to defend ourselves. We're at a much better position to put our hands up, to use our voice ahead of time, not when we're being grabbed. So we can say no, and we can start drawing attention to the scene, that makes a difference. But when you have the element of surprise, half the people freeze, half the people can't breathe, so therefore they can't scream. And the next thing you know, they're they're being assaulted, they're being attacked, and they never saw it coming. I'm working with Dignity Hospital actually in Los Angeles right now, and they're doing uh they're doing something for senior citizens. And so I'm their consultant for their for this project that they're working on. And I use this scenario because, you know, the seniors are taking public transportation. And I'm like, you know, where you sit matters, you know, get out of the window seat. Like, you know, you're gonna get pinned in, you're gonna get robbed, you can get assaulted, you know, get out of the window seat, put on that, and then you talk about the aisle. Well, what you do on that? Where should your purse be on the aisle? Like, so you have all these things, right? But the whole point is if you do it on a regular basis, it's like it becomes a routine for you. It's not this belaboring act of what I should do. Where are, you know, you just know what to do and where to put your things. But yes, the young woman's head is in her phone and she's on a train or subway. And when you look at everybody else in that environment, every single one of them, their head is in their phone. Every, I mean glued, head is dirchin, is in their chest. So I talk to people a lot about areas of isolation. What's an area of isolation? An area of isolation is when no one else can see you and no one else can hear you scream. So, you know, there you are on public transportation with other people. Is that an area of isolation? But when everyone head is in their phone, it kind of is because the one person who committed violence, he's doing all of the signals that lead that are precursors for somebody who will do violence. If you watch the video, he's rubbing his face, he's rubbing his neck, he's rubbing his arms, he's doing all the things where his body's trying to keep him calm, but those are indicators of somebody that might do violence. Nobody sees it because everybody's head is in their phone. And that's what I mean. Like, if I was, if I was on that train and I saw that guy doing this, I'm like, I mean, I don't, I can't tell you what I would do, but I could tell you I would never take my eyes off that guy. Like I would position myself away from that guy. Like I'm like, something's not right here. But that that could have been anybody on that train. Right. And none of them would have seen it coming. And so our awareness is always our key to staying safe because that's how we see these indicators, you know, that you talked about in your introduction.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah. And there's something to consider here: a young, attractive woman, or is someone that might feel like when I make eye contact or when I'm looking at other people, I get unwelcome advances. So how could they manage that? I mean, maybe they can be more strategic on how they're being observant.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

I mean, I get asked that all the time. So, and I I liked like I watch people all the time. I'm fascinated by watching people because there's so many different things. So I think it started years ago just at airports. I'd be like, oh, they're in a domestic violence relationship. You know, you just start telling stories about what you see. You could be wrong, but you know, you're just talking. But when I am out, because I like to walk, I pass by people all the time. And I tell people all the time, make eye contact with people. And I don't mean stare them down. I don't think you got to be like, I go, all you're doing with your eyes is saying, I see you. That's it. You know, that's all you're doing. And are you gonna get engaged in a conversation? Not if you have a good pace to your walk, not if you have a place to be and you're on the move and you're exercising, you can see them. And when I say make eye contact, I'm not talking about when they're one foot from you. I'm talking about when they're about six to eight feet. You let them know that you see them. If you want to give them a wave or say morning, that's up to you. But your pace is so confident and and with a purpose, there's no they're not gonna stop and talk to you. You're gonna keep going. And if they if you did have a bad feeling about that, you should absolutely look back at that person. And if they're looking, if they're looking at you, you were right. And if they're not looking at you, they're never gonna know that you look back at them. So I'm like, never take your eyes off of people. One, when they're approaching, but two, when they pass you, it's okay to look back at people. Like it's a hundred percent like it's your safety. No one's gonna take care of you except for you.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Right. And so, and you're looking around and you're maybe seeing other people that you can say, okay, I need to be, I need to go down this path because there's other people going down this path. Yeah, maybe I need to have safety and numbers for sure. So um, I'm looking at my little cheat sheet, which is my coffee mug. This is what I talk about is, you know, I have a stars framework, I have a lived experience, and I do have a professional background in my younger years. And I went on to live a totally different life and got pulled back into it this way. But so one of them is scenarios, triggers, action, routine, and stoicism. And a lot of what I see you talk about has to do with be ready to take action. What action are you gonna take? And what I see you talking about triggers a lot, and I really like what you're saying about that and how people need to pay attention to those things that feel different.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Yeah, well, I think intuition is a huge part in staying safe. And people don't recognize one, they don't recognize their intuition until later on. And I actually learned that, Lori, like with my my sister, you mentioned we had a family tragedy. You know, she was killed years ago. And this is somebody who sat at our Thanksgiving table with our family, and I played catch with the football with him on Thanksgiving Day with my brothers and I, and it was four days later, you know, he killed her for a life insurance policy. And when when she was killed, it was like the movie The Sixth Sense with Bruce Willis. It was like the recall, and it was like all the warning signs just flashed before us. All the times where you were like, it's not a big deal, don't worry about that. You know, like you don't want to ruffle the feathers, you don't want to say anything because Beb's so happy. But there were moments, and everyone in my family had had a moment of intuition, more than one. You know, even just that last Thanksgiving day, my sister Bev walked in my parents' door and I go, she was so vibrant. I go, hi Bev. And she goes, hi Barb. I go, where's Rich? And she goes, Oh, she goes, he's working today, he's gonna meet us later. And I stopped right there and I said the most common phrase of intuition that's weird. Thanksgiving. Nobody works on Thanksgiving Day, not in a nine to five job, you know. Like that's what I said to myself. I go, that's weird. But where he really was was playing golf with friends, you know, we learned later. On, but he was a big liar and he lied about everything. And that's what he told her that day was he had to work. But you know, and you're gonna say, and again, just because he lied, does that mean he's gonna be a killer? No. But when you start, if everyone puts their little moments together, you start asking more questions about an individual, especially someone you know. You know, you start who is this guy? Like, oh, he's new to our community, and oh, he's this, he's this wonderful hitting coach. Well, that doesn't mean we can let our guard down. That doesn't mean we just welcome him into our family because he's an expert in an area. What do you really know about people? And so I think intuitively, like, there's always one was always one person that's smart and they're like, I don't have a I don't have a good feeling about him. And everybody else will be like, oh, he's funny, you know, he's he's got a good job and he's a doctor, you know, and they say all that doesn't mat that that doesn't mean you can trust them. That doesn't mean that you get to go off into an area of isolation with them. That doesn't mean you get to let them in your inner circle. And I say that because it's from personal experience. If you do, anything can happen. So keep your inner circles tight and really get to know people. And it and I tell like ladies all the time, like, you're going out to dinner and then you're gonna go home with them because he was nice for two or three hours. I go, well, if he was an idiot, you're not gonna go home with him. So of course he's nice for two or three hours. Like, of course he bought you dinner. Like, think people, think like that doesn't mean you can trust him. And then, you know, their moms are calling me saying she's sexually assaulted and yeah. And then I'm just like, you know, and it's frustrating, but people don't know the cynical people that are out there and the plotting and the planning that they do, and they take advantage of people and they cause them a lot of tragedy, and they cause them more specifically a lot of trauma.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

That error in thinking is across every socioeconomical area. And I I agree with you so much. Expertise, education, academia, that does not make you necessarily a good person. It just makes you that expert or that person with that degree. If you see a doctor, uh, you look on his wall, does it say what grade he got, even, you know, his certificate? So I love that you bring that up. And I was brought up in a military family. Uh, my father was a military officer. I was brought up to respect your elders, people in uniform. And it's not until you start to really realize it's not the uniform, it's not the rank. And it happens everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Uh, so my sister's fiance, you know, they tell you what they want you to know. You know, like you said, the accolades, you know, like, oh, I'm working on my third master's degree, and I just got the shiny SUV with this personalized license plate, calypso, and uh I was in the Marines, and you know, he's telling us all these accolades. And so as a parent, like my parents are like, ah, this is great, you know, look at this resume. But it doesn't say who they are on the inside. And the predators will always tell you what they want you to know. You know, they're not gonna tell you that they were divorced twice before the age of 30, that their wife fled with their child in the middle of the night for their safety. Like, they're not gonna tell you that stuff. They're gonna build up this big thing because that's what they want you to focus on. And so, like, there's predators everywhere. And the real predators, like my sister's killer. I look at pictures of him on social media and he lives in Long Beach, California, and there he is, you know, wearing his Marines t-shirt. And I think Oh, yeah, and he yeah, and so there he is, he's wearing his Marines t-shirt, and I think there he's probably Starbucks, and somebody says what? It's a conversation starter. You were in the Marines, thank you for your service. And people have no idea that they are talking to a calculated killer, they have no idea. And so, should you never say thank you for your service to people? No, but think, watch the watch them. What do you feel when you're with people? Like he had a pebble beach golf hat on once, right? He was on a cruise ship. And I said, I promise you, the people he saw on that cruise ship that night, one of those couples went back to the room and said, That one guy gave me a bad feeling. That's intuition. Those are the things I'm talking about. Like, he doesn't have to do anything, it's a feeling. And so when you engage with people, you talk to somebody, you thank them for their service, they're your doctor. Thank you so much for curing me. How do you really feel when you were with them? Do they give you the hippie jibbies? If I'm at a doctor for a cold and he says, Do you need a breast exam? I'm like, I will never be back in your office, you freakazoid. Like that doesn't fit. But so many people, as you mentioned, they're nice and always probably just, you know, doing a good job. No, people, because there's some real weirdos out there. And when you get the sign, recognize it.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

I hope that you share that story as often as you can, because the fact that that's what happened to your family years ago, and he served time and he's out and walking the streets like a normal person.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

And the other thing that, you know, I think we should have, and I'm starting to work on this, is you know, there is a sex offender list, Megan's law, but I'm trying to create a violent offender's law. So every everyday citizens have who's this person moving in next door to me? And you Google them, they come up on a violent offender list. Now you know, like they stabbed their former wife. Oh, they they stabbed a teacher when they were 12 years old, you know, like, but we should know. We don't know. And and and I think one of the biggest things with you know who are predators that some of those people I talked about with low levels of awareness, they think they're the scary looking person. And so oftentimes they're ordinary. And I show picture after picture of people in my session. I show these pictures of people, and when I'm done, I go, which one? If you were alone on the side of the road, which one of those would you trust? And they're like, and I'm like, because uh every single one of them has committed murder and they're just shocked. But that's the trick. The trick is it's not the scary looking person, it's all it's what you feel at first. You're f I always say your first thought is so often your right thought. You might be wrong, but I'd rather be wrong and apologize than be, you know, than then be nice and be caught by surprise. I I don't know, I don't never want to be caught by surprise again. Never want to experience it.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

I'd love to see what you're doing and follow that because uh that's a that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Thank you. Well, listen, I I I'd love to stay in touch with you and and you know work with you on some projects. I think that you know, we could do some work together.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Sounds good. Let's do stay in touch and thank you for coming on and sharing what you're doing. And I'm just so thrilled that you're out there doing what you are. Where can people find you and call you to come talk to their room?

SPEAKER_01 28:45

My website is alwaysbev.com, bev likebeverly, so alwaysbev.com. And then on social media, it's always underscore bev. So you Google Barb Jordan, you'll be able to find me out there.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

All right, perfect. Well, thanks again for coming on. It was great to meet you, and I hope that we can talk some more soon.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Thank you for the opportunity, Lori. All right, take care, Bev.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Bye. Bye.