Does Tefillah B'tzibur Require 6 or 10?

Igros Moshe 1:28-30; In 3 different teshuvas, Rav Moshe defines the parameters of tefillah b'tzbiur. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Okay, let's get started. We're gonna touch on some things that uh that the Rav touched on, but we're gonna go into more more uh length and more about Roman. Okay, so the the um the chuva we're gonna do is an Archaim Khalik Aleph Simon it's Simenchafches through Lamid. Really Simchovchhes is the bulk of it. I stapled this wrong, great. Um so um yeah, the Shila is was dated September 18th, 1952. The dates are actually gonna be a little bit important, you'll see later, but they don't they don't have to remember them, don't worry. Um and the shiloh is pretty simple. The shila is the shil tells uh the the shell's name was of Mordechai Schpilman. Not sure what that is, but he asked her money, she says, I heard a rumor in your name that you said that in order to be feeling zebra, you need 10 for a minion and 10 Daven, not six, as some people like to say. So he wants to know if that's true. Now just to just to be clear, I you know, when I sent out the um the name of this uh shear, I got a lot of feedback. You know, you'd think this was like a a seriously controversial topic. As I say, like all politics are local. This is this is you know, this is affects everyday life. Um just to be clear what we're discussing. We're discussing what it what the numbers for Tila Bitziba. What we're not discussing is how many people you need to start Khazar's jat. How many people can be David? It's a different shaila. Obviously, some things will overlap, but it's not the same shaila. I just want to be clear about that. Okay, so how many do you need? Says Remaisha. He says, And you heard this thing that it said in my name that you need 10 people to Daven, and it's not enough to just have Roi? It's true. It's true. I did say that, and it's not me who says that. You can look it up. The Chayadim says, You have 10 adult males davining together. So I didn't make it up. So, where does the idea of six, where do people say six, roy, where does this come from? Says Ramesha as follows. Ramaisha, uh the uh the idea of six comes from the concept of dovership of Gdusha, and we're gonna discuss it at length. But dovership of Gdusha is not the same thing as two of the batubes, that's gonna be Ramisha's yes. Okay. Nowisha says the svar is obvious when you think about it for a second. So any shear that's a number. We obviously don't say the svara of rubaikula, right? We don't say you need 40 saw for a mikfa, so what does that mean? You need a little more than 20 saw, right? Of course not. The whole point of a number is that you need that number. If you're short of that number, you don't satisfy the requirement. So if you need 10 for a tibur, then if you have nine, you don't have that. Since that's that's the svara. Okay. And where do we know 10 from? We know 10 is from Xer Shav, Tech Tech, Eide, the last week's partial, right? The Maraglin. Um, so it's it's it's a number, it's a shear. So be svara before we get into the the marbuchaimus, the svara just makes sense to say that you need 10 for a manga. Now, so let's discuss the concept of six. Let's discuss where it comes up. So it comes up, like we said by a dovershabakedusha. Now, when it comes to dovershakadusha, kadesh, barhu, you don't you need more than six, right? You need ten. Of course. You need ten people in the shoulder. You can't have six. What's the six number? Once you have ten, how many people have to be muchyav in the dovar that you're able to do it? That's where the concept of six comes in. That's where potentially we say this is our rubrik kakulay. Now, let's go back to the now Raj takes a step back. So it all starts with Mishnah Migil. Mishnah Mighil gives a list of things that requires a minion, right? And one of those things is Puris Alash personal shema. Concept of a priestess Shema. A little complicated what priest Shema is, but uh the way Rashi says, a simple pshat, a guy comes, comes like comes like the shrub and misdavani, is oh yeah, Ms. Davani, he wants to get up, he's gonna say kadish, he's gonna say barku, maybe the first bruh, maybe the first brach of Shema, maybe what we'll call Heikh Kadusha, just to simplify it. That's the concept of personal Shema. And that's in the list of things you need ten. Comes along the Ramban Bashem the Ran, and he says, this day, you need ten, you could do it if most of the ten are makuyh. That's what the Ramban says. If six out of the ten are makuyev, then you could do it. Oh, we're not, we're gonna get there. We're not, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't, don't, don't turn off the recording yet. Don't leave it yet. Yeah, no, not yet. Um so what the Raman is saying, of course you need a minion, you need a minion for Dharvashabakadusha. However, once we have a minion, you need a khaivasibr. The way Ramishha says it. How do you have a khaivasibar? Right. If most of the people are now Ramesha has two svaras to suggest, how does that work? So his first shot is Tlisus already says, Tlaisus quotes a bunch of different shaitas, including six, and he quotes it's it's about it's all about a pasa. Is it an asmahta? Is a pasa uh how many there's different how many you count the words. And the pasak, it's a it's it's not a Xerasakhaza because it's an asmahta, but it's based on off an asmahta. Yeah? So the vart is that you need a minion, comes along the asmahta and says, but of the minion, only six have to be muchlif, and then it turns into a chaif-siba. That's mahalakh number one. Bahalak number two is like this that because if you have ten people in the room and six are makhliyev, so in general we go basar rif, so the miyat is niggir after the rif, so not everyone's muhliyaf. So we have the tzibr that's muhliyev, because you have six the majority of this group of ten is muhliyev. So memeil of the miyir is nigger after the rif, and it's considered as if the tzibar is mukhliyev. Yeah? Now, of course, if the four walk out of shul, they're patter. They didn't do anything wrong. At least they're not, they satisf they you can't say they didn't satisfy their khaiyev because they just heard who 10 minutes ago. But so long as they're part of the zebra, you can say that they're Chayev on what you know, and on a certain level. Of course, they're not mamashchayev, because like I say, you could they just walk out. Okay. Now, Ces Ramaisha, he's not just being the foul for no reason, there's an Afkamina between the two reasons. And the Nafkaminu is let's say you have a lot more than 10 people, right? Let's say you have 20 people and six haven't been Yai Tsi yet. So do if it's like the first child isn't a smachda, six. Okay, great, then you're good. But if it's outs riv, here rive already did it. So, so so uh potentially there will be no ich of siber, unless Ramaj says you take four of them and they join into like a separate sibr. I don't know how you do it. You say hey ni muchunamzuma and you go to a separate corner in the shul. I don't know how exactly, but somehow you start with those groups and they become uh and you become a rif. Now, Raj just says, this is a very nice discussion when it comes to the concept being pirate al-Shema. The thing is it's really old. And this is why. Because not everyone agrees to six number. There are sheetahs, Taisus quotes a whole bunch of sheetas, including Talmide Rashi, Bishem Rashi, who says that you only need one. One person to make. And Raj says he just throws in very mistaffer to say you only need one. The whole point is you want to say barhu. You want to say barku, you want to do kadusha? What's the big deal if you have a six? One guy wants to do it as long as you have a zebra, as long as there's ten people in the room. He just be swari, he likes it. He likes it, but it doesn't matter. Shaqhark passes one. Shaharak says you should look for six. But if you get one is fine. Yeah, and I've seen it. I've seen it in a Stibbos. Where a guy walks in, one person's like, Oh, do you mind? And he just goes and he's a personal shamah.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

I've never seen all this.

unknown 6:53

I've never seen the Kedusha boy.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Well, you could do Kaddish. Well, it's by Shachris, it's embarrassing. You walked in after the case.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

The way the gumara, I never gumara. Yeah. When you call it the Gumara, he's doing all maybe it covered them because it hopes he can just do it. I'm asking.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah, you could do what?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

I'm just asking it. I see the gumorah based on what you said.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

She just does the the hecha kadusha or you have to do the whole line up.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

No, I think you could just do the hegusha. Let's say you heard, I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Ask a rubber for your parasol shema.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah. I don't know if you have to do the whole thing. Right. Well, no, it seems clear. You'll see in the pies come later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where it comes from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you'll see the soon we're going to do a magnet of ram. Um, okay. Um, fine. So it's not really relevant for the c for the Suggya Pires and Al-Shema. However, it is relevant for Kriya Satira Khira. Because everyone agrees Khriya Satira is a chai of a zebra. You have to have a tibur in order to be right. One guy can't pull out a uh uh say I have laning this week, let me lay it. You need a tzibar. Not not the barku, bark shabdusha, the the the well the yeah, the barhu plus the laning. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so maybe there, maybe there, even Tomid Rashi, even Lahalaka, you need six out of ten, right? Yeah, six out of ten. Worry y'ai tzi at.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah. Is it is it does it be yitzalan?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

There's an inion? No. Well, it's very complicated. I'll then know how to look at laning if it's a khaivas siber or chaivas yakhir. It's a very interesting discussion. The gymur says anonymity done, anybody too the pastures of the gomorrah said it's a chaivas cib. But yeah, but Ramaysa's saying, in order to have a tchivis cebr, you have to have people who you can't just go around and have tibur, you know, if we all heard laning and then we split up into and go join another. We are tibur, my tsibur, even if it's a khaivas ziber, my tsiber heard laning. And I was part of a tibur that heard laning, so I'm not, I can't be included anymore in a tsibar in a khaivas cybur because my ther, something like that. Yeah. Um, soira, if Ramaisha's right, that Kriya Satirataka is a khaivas siber, and you need maybe you need six out of ten. Now it's a big nafkamino, which shvaru of Ramaisha you go with. In the case of where you have a majority of people who were yites already, but you still have six. Yeah. But then Ramaisha says, on second thought, maybe you could say a differently. You could say that, hold on, this whole concept of six comes from the Ramban, right? And the Ramban was talking about Paris Al-Shema. And in Paris Al Shema, we have other shitas. We have a shita of one, we have a sheet of three, a sheet of five, a sheetah of seven. Yeah, so maybe the whole machlaichis is not relevant. It's all the whole machelikas, nothing to do with the rubic kakuloi, nothing. It's all about asmachta. It's a very narrow machleikis where the halakhas of Paris Al-Shema. It's all about asmahta. Maybe even the Ramban himself wouldn't say six, you need six out of ten by Kriyas Daira. Maybe it's tafk, it's a special, it's a special kassav by like Zerasakasov, asmahta by um by uh Parisin al-Shema. Yeah. And yeah, even if you want to say no, that the Sheetah of Six is not just Paris Al-Shama. It's a more, it's a broader shita. It applies to other things like Lenin's heads. Yeah. But it could be that the other Sheethas would disagree. Meaning, all we know is the Ramban holds six by Paris Al-Shema. And you want to say Kriya Satara also, fine. But what do we know about Rashi? What do we know about the Sheita three? What do we know about the sheet of five? We don't have any Makar from those shetas that they hold. That there's a concept of Rubikakula to create a tibra. We don't see any, we do know such a makar. Then Ramai should flip to the other side. It says, actually, maybe you could say like this. Maybe you could say that when we talk about when the Raman says six, the Raman is not talking about Dafka Paris Al Shema. It's about the whole Mishnah, everything that lists in the Mishnah, and Kriyasatara, all the things in the Mishnah. Yeah? All six. And the Rishina who argue only argue by Paris Al Shema. They only argue Paris Shamah because of the Hasmahta, but really they agree everywhere else. Shiva's not sure what to make, how to make heads or tails, and he's not sure. So what do you come out? He comes out La Halaqah, he says, when it comes to Kriyasatira, since we can't, he doesn't find anyone explicitly arguing on the Ramban, he says you can rely on the Ramban for Kriyasatira. That you only need six form a khaiyah, and then you can lay. But if you have the situation where there's more than ten, where Mays is Shailah, he says you should have a group break off and become the tibur, however you do that, right? Just to be khaicious for that stuff. And now he says, with this background, he says it makes a lot of sense. The Chayadam, sorry, my sheets are just not stapled correctly. The Chayadim says that he's Masupic in the case of Kriyasatara, right? The same Chayadim says you need 10 for uh for Tila Batiber. He says, he says, Masupic, Mdafka, Shakum, and Khayak, they all have to be hiding the Kriya. And Bir Allah says, no suffig, the Iran. Iran says you need a rife. So Sramai says, that's why the Khayad is Masupic. He doesn't know what to do with Iran. Same thing. I don't know. I don't know. Does Iran apply to Kriasatara or not? Right? Do we passing like the Ran on Kriasatara or not? So that's why the Khayadim is Masupic and the Masub, and it makes sense. Okay, fine. Now, so we've discussed Paris Shuma, we've discussed Kriyasatara, now we have to figure out how does Tvila, Tvila Bitziba, fit into this conversation. So says Ramasha, Tvila is clearly not a Khivat Tzib, right? Tvila is a Khivas Yachan. Clearly, every Yachan has a Khivatan, whether they have a minion or not. In addition to the Khivat of Tvila, there's an added Maila, Inyan Khiiv, that's a separate controversial topic that Ramosha has a famous shita about that he holds as a Khiiv. Maybe we'll get there one day. But is it Indian to have Tvila Batzibur? So there's no swar at all, says Ramesha, to say that you just need most. Like Ramesha said in the beginning, it's a shear, it's a number, you need ten. There's no this this whole conversation that Paris al-Shama Kriya Satyra is a totally separate conversation. It's how do you create a Khivas Tzibr? That's the whole debate between in Kree in the discussion of Paris Al Shama and in the discussion of Kriya Sterb is how do you create a Khivas Tibur? Six, ten, the whole discussion. Here we're not trying to create a Khaivas Tiber. We're trying to get this cool thing called Thila Bitziber. We're trying to get that. Your Tvila is elevated. It's it's the Shamas, uh, the Imam says, right? It's it's it's it's heard more. How do you get there? Well the Khazal tell us. Ten. Where do you get six from? It's a totally separate conversation from the sugia of Paris Shema where we're trying to create a Khivas Tibur. Here we're not trying to create a Khivas Tibur. It's a we're trying to create a meaning. We're trying to create a Tila Bitziber. It's totally different discussion. Yeah? So now there is a sheeta in the Rishinim that you actually, for Parish Shema, you don't need 10. You just need six total. Not we first of all, we obviously don't pass it that way. And again, Ramah says that's all about how do you understand the asmahta. Of course, the default is you need ten. Maybe, maybe some Rishim says it's an asmachta, you only need six. But don't use that in our conversation where again there's no asmahta that's relevant here. Nobody would argue that six makes a tibur, right? Not even the we'll get to soon, maybe at the end, some sheetas who disagree with Ramasha. Nobody says that you need six for you need ten people in the room. No question. Right? Okay. Fine. So Mike said there's no Makar for six. Do we have Raya's Kenegat six? That's Ramosha's next. So he quotes the uh Darking Maisha quotes Mari Minz. And Mari Minz um says that if ten people, you come to a shool, ten people come to a shul that already Davened. Yeah. So the the Tiburus milling around, they're all inside, and they want to make another minion. And the people say, wait, well, we may really read Daven. Our shul is done, it's not a Sheibel. Mari Minz says, no, if there's ten who didn't Daven yet, take the Ahmad, start from the beginning. Khazar Zha, you know, tree of Balachash Khazar Zashat's the whole Seder. Yeah. Says the Dhaki Maisha. Interesting. He says that you need 10. It must be you need the full ten. The whole din of that you make that you could do with one or six is by Paris Al-Shema. But to do the whole thing with a silent one asray and a chazar a shat that you need ten. Now the Dr. Maisha himself says, no, I don't see a difference. What should be the difference? Let you just need one. You don't need ten. You just need one. As long as there's one, it's no different than Paris al-Shamah. That's what Dr. Mysh himself argues about Riminz. Okay, but again, don't follow any of this, Allah makes sure because there's a lot of uh specifics here. So says R Maisha, we see clear that the shit of Marimts is that Khazar Zashat is a khaibas sibr and you need ten. Now the Dr. Myshu doesn't argue on the Yasid, right? He would just say Khazar Zashat is like Paris Ashamah. It's like a regular Davish, it's no different than a regular Davishabnusha. You just need six people or Machhuiv. You need ten in the room, six people are Makhuyev. Right? And therefore you could have uh you don't even need six. I'm sorry, Paris Hashmah, you only need one. You only need one. But for Tfilobat Siber, my smart there's no reason to assume that Dr. Maishu would disagree with the Maharyns. He would say you need 10. 10 is 10, right? So we see that the concept of 10 is 10 already comes from Maharaminz. The Dr. Mesha doesn't necessarily have an issue with that. Now, there is a Moganav Ram. The Maghana Vram says that when you're being Paris Shahma, so we said you could have with one, but remember the Maghravam says it's an Afkamina between one and six. Yeah. In a case of six, when you get to the Khazar Sashat's part, you could do silence one hasre followed by Khazar Sashat's. When there's one, you do what we'll call Heikhakadusha. Right? You know silence one hasray. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Which by the definition sounds like you you you you can do that. You can do a full class with one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Yeah, yeah. I think that I think I think it's machis. I think it's machegis. I believe Maganar Ram Dragon Wish. Yeah? Now, so everyone gets excited by this Magan Ram. Mhm. Ram's people are called, oh, Mishmura holds you only need six. Says uh says Rush. No, you're not understanding the Magan Ram. The Magabar is not saying that six is Thielobit Zibur. Magnavam saying that if you have six, yeah, there's now a tsibur here. There's enough of a tsibar to follow all the takanas at Ghazal. One of the Takanas Khazal, silent ash is followed by followed by Khazar Sashat's. Six is enough of a number to follow the rules. If you have less than six, it's it's it's much less than that, and you just go straight to Khazar Sashatz. You don't do, there's no, it's not Kitikuna. You don't have a tzibar. So of course you have a tsibar with six plus four, but you don't have feel of its sibar. It's a totally separate conversation. Okay. Now, there is a Rambam that everyone gets excited about. The Rambam says, the Rambam Parakes alokadalit says that Kate's a two-two. So it's amazing, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Well, before emotion, it sounded like since was Philip and C. There's no else we're saying.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

So we'll talk in a little bit of the reaction, but uh it's it's funny, you'd think, right? This is not a Shiloh first impression, right? This is a Shiloh that has existed for thousands of years. It's the same Shiloh. And but it's it's it hasn't been flushed out a lot. I mean, there's debate. There's debate. Uh you know, I don't know the history as well of the rab, but the rob, but uh the rob said it sounds like the people who are back to Ron 10, yeah, it's punch very much. Okay, so we'll heard it. Yeah, yeah, no, it's it sounds reasonable, and we'll we'll maybe we'll summarize it at the end, the the other shaitas. But um, so there's a Ramam. There's the Ram that all the uh the Hulkam and our money should get excited about. The Ramam says, What's Tweelabitz? Ram says, What is Kate? What is Twilib Zebra? I think his law shows Kate's at Twil Bitziber. And he says, one guy diamonds out loud, yeah, and everybody listens. Because there's a shots. That's twilabet zebr. So it sounds like Ramam holds twilibitzbs because there are shats. And then at the end of that halacha, hold on. And then at the end of the halaqah, the Ramam says, How many do you need? Six. So if the Ramam is saying his version of Tilburb, now we have a little slightly different version of Tilabit Zibr, but his Tila Bitzebur, all you need is six. Ram says explicitly, and ours, so ours too. You only need six. That's where you come from the Ramam. Says, Ramai Shikh, you can't, there can't be shot in the Ramam. Because the Ramam himself, in his chuvas, says, Khazar's a shat is to be might say an A noibaki. Right? Someone who doesn't know how to Davin. The Ramam in Halakh, and he compares it, but we kept the taqana even now, because like just like we have Kiddish and Shul, right? Even if there's no Archim. Right? And the Ramam here in Halakha says that a buq is not yitzh with with with uh with Khazar Zashat's a bucky. Someone knows that a Davin. So it can't be you before you start making dhumra, I don't understand what the Ram's saying. The Ram doesn't make sense on its surface, it doesn't face it, it makes no sense. How can you tell me this is Tila Bitsiba? The Ram himself seems to say, like, a bucky can't even use it as thilabitzebur. Pshat in the Ram, Ramish can be to the reader the words of Ram. Pshat in the Ram is as follows. Ram says, Ram starts off, you need thilabitsibra. He's talking about thilib, he doesn't spell it out. He's talking about thilabitzir the way we understand it. Ten people daviding together. Yeah? And he says, by the way, there's another version of Twila Bitzib and that's Khazar Zashat. It's also a form of Thrila Bitzebur. Yeah? And for that, you need six. Yeah? Again, because there's only one person David, so all you need is one person divining, nine people answering, six people Makuyev. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

When he says six, doesn't he mean there are six total?

SPEAKER_00 18:58

In volume four are just, let's see, unless it does. Six six have not heard yet. I think it's his lush. I think his lush is six that have not have not uh heard Khazar's. Uh not six out, six out of y'itza. Answer is a separate issue.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Because he could understand what you're getting with the six in that roy. The same, the same, what Remisha would say when there was one guy, you might think one.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

So look, as could you be one guy seeing the clock? And I mean, I think as potentially on the C word. Right. Quote Ramba, what was happening with those other noise? What was happening?

SPEAKER_00 19:31

What happened with other three, you mean?

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah, or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

They're there. They're just in the room.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

They're not answering.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Uh whether they're answering or not. That's a separate question what you have to be answering on me. They're not yet. The six are yitz to the bitsibra because Khazar Sashat's has this is built into the Khazar Shats, built on Chazar Sashatz. Is that a status of Tilbut Zebra?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Answering, yeah. Well, their Yayitz. So they already were Yitzh ready.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

The other six, yeah, Pasha Satz. That's my point.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

So that would stick with the Bank of the Shun also. Because you have six being missed.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Because there's something special about Khazarsa Shats. That there's only one guy Davenik, right? There's only one guy Daven, and people, yeah, I hear what you're saying, but you're saying no, the five people being Yitzah, right? They're right. They're not Pashvat.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

If the same thing are involved, then you're then that's why that's why I framed it that way. Because what else are the other four ends? I mean, there are right that are involved. If they're just sitting authority, and you're telling them to still hold that as you carry over to our.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I think the Ramesh understands it differently. He understands Khazar Shah's is like the superpower that it can't. As long as you're allowed to do Khazar Sasha, which is when you have six. Yeah, as the other side has a rap up. Yeah, okay. And so that's his conclusion of the Thuvah that you need ten. That's Fatvila Pitzibra. And do not bring me right from the Ramam, because the Ramam itself doesn't make sense on its face. You have to rewrite the Rabbam. Now, there's a next Thuva. It's Siblin Khaftas. Uh the uh it's the same, the same uh same Shail, Mordechai Shpilman. And the Shail says, you know, I have a different reading of the Khayadam. Maybe the Chayadim when he says, you need 10, he's just using Asaras, like this, it's a code of Fitzsibra, doesn't mean ten. And Rabaih says, No, you can't read the Khayadim that way because the Chayadim says too many words. There's too many words. He's not, he could have just you're right, you could look at it, give him his doctic very carefully in the words of the Chayadam. He also adds the word Gidail. What are you saying, Gedailam? The Khayadim is telling you, you need ten adult males David. He's being very careful in how his words. And he said, uh, to me, it's like it's funny, like you write a true to Ribbia, you write shay to Rabaisha. Rabisha responds, and what do you needle him on? Oh, Dia kn-Khayadam. Like, what are you trying to try to convince Rabaisha the Khayam says differently? So Rabaisha will say, I disagree with the Khayala. Rabajis is not a, you know, I'm sorry, you respect, obviously, he respected the Khayotum tremendously, but he's not afraid to argue with the Khayadam. If you want to get Rabaisha on your side, you gotta, you know, you gotta argue in the Phatn Ramba, not Pshaw the Khayot. Okay, fine. Um and then he gets into a length about a shire I can't. It's like the okay, we're not gonna do it. And then at the end, I don't know why he even quoted just funny that he the shoyol says, I'd heard Bashem the Briskarov that you can't do Khazar's shots if you don't have 10. You need 10 for the shoyol tells Remisha. Which ten well no, no, no, nine plus plus plus the ten. So so I don't know, that sort of hurts the guy's case. I'm not sure why he was saying that. Remysha says it could be that the briskerov holds like the Marie Mints, but I don't I have a hard time believing that that's what the brisk row held because we already know that the Dark Humanish and the Magnum Romply don't hold like the Marie Mints. So it would be very share that the Briska Rov. But again, I don't know why this guy's bothering Mysha about the briskerov holds. I don't know. Okay, fine. Now there's another chuva. The shirt chuva is it's Simon Lamin, and this chuva is a much shorter chuvah. And in this chuva, uh it's to Ravnoach Briar from Spring Valley. He says, the same same exact child as the first one. Do you need six? And Majha says, no, you need ten. And he says, listen, I know there's a Ramam of the Ramam Tarakhir. Ram Tarachihan. Right? That's how he leaves off as Truva. That. So it comes out from these chuvas that Ramisha, uh Ramisha held that uh you need ten. Now, as you alluded to, Shalami, it seems like this is a very, very heated issue. And that there, the, the Paiskim felt that Minogh, some Paiskim felt that Minoghistrol was always safe. And like, I just want to quote, you know, the Piske Chuvas, which is supposed to be a leakot safer, right? He's not supposed to be uh he's not supposed to be sticking his nose into Machlikasim. Um he says, the Eishladas, remember the Mishabura quotes that you need the Mish Brukhayad, that you need 10, right? On this Mr. Bura says the Pisque Chubas, Vyesh Ladas, Kyadvarim shoot him, Ubreim, I'll be a Raman, the Mishnah Brura. You don't need 10. You're for the Raman, the Mishabura. It's funny, he calls the Mr. Bura. Mr. Bruh, what Mr. Bruh is talking about the Mr. Burr, I call the Mogan Avram. But the Mishnah Burra here that he's going on says you need 10. And the Ramish already laughed off because we said that Mr. Mogan Avram is talking about something that does not relevant to us. That's our sashats. If you do it out loud, you do it quietly, right? But you see, this is a very, very sensitive issue, and it says a common ziklier, but there are many, and he quotes a whole list, which I you know about I obviously didn't go through all that, of of Rabana Blah and Khasidish, who says that the Minogue always was that you have six. Now, okay, now the issue with Minogue is what does that mean minog? Sometimes you have no choice. Remember, you know, there's no brachizatallah there's no shylah. It's all shylah did you hit to be the bitsibur. Right? So I like minog to me is like a it's a it's not such a compelling argument. Okay, to me. Yeah, but but I want to say one thing that Ravaja, he quotes Ravaj, so I found the true Ravajya. Ravaja says, he quotes, he says six. He goes with six. Yeah. And then he says, I found the Rameshia. He says, I found the Ragai and Ramisha finds it says ten. Yeah. He says, but then Ramesha says, he quotes the Rabbi say the opposite. And Hiniyakma Tarachir. He leaves in the Tarachir, and he says, in the safer, Manala Igris responds to Ramisha. I don't know if you know the Manal Igris is. Manal Igris was a guy who wrote a safer, literally Manal Igris. He wrote a safer to argue Ramesha. Hidden Imukhab was woman to argue everything Ramisha wrote. He wrote it in the same print. It looks like an Igorus Mysha, it's the same fine. And you've never seen it because it's not welcome in our Kaisley Basham Madras, at least in this, in the in where we grew up. You can find it online. What?

unknown 24:40

Because he quotes here.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

No, I don't know if he went through Evichuva, but you can find it online on one of these uh, you know, his band's websites. But but but it kind of that's eh. So he quotes him out of Igoris, which again, where I come from, that's not uh that's not something that's welcome in the Kaiser Based Amedris. But but there's a funny story with uh uh Rabbi Shirkett has a funny story where they they they slipped him out of aggress, I think, on his on Romisha's table just to see his reaction. He slipped through he moved to the side. He didn't really care. Um and then the printer at As Machila, and then Ramosha's like, you know, to As Machilah if you want, you can print it, I don't care. You know, Ramosha was very comfortable in his own skin, he wasn't afraid, and he had clearly won that battle. Um but but what what I really want to focus on Ravajah he says, so Ramaja quotes, you know, Ramesha quotes the Rambah, and he says, I don't know, Nishabat's Rachir. And it's true, Ramosha in Simon Lamid quotes the Rabbam and Ishrivat Tsarhihir. But what Ravajah didn't point out is that in Sim and Khavchas, Ramosha goes through the Rambah and he gives Up Shat in the Ram. And before he tell me Lamid came after Khafches, it didn't, because Lamid was written in December 1951, and Khafches was written in September 1952. So Lamid was written first. So Khafchhez was written second. So in his first chuvah, he just said Tsarachir. And then in the later Chuva, he wrote, he wrote Up Shat and Rambah. And again, a Babakil's called Ravaja to say Nishabat Turachin, I don't know, I don't know how to make of this Ravaja. Now you could say Ravaja didn't see Khaches, but Ravaja saw everything. He knew everything, right? He knew Banal Igris, he knew Igris too. Maybe he didn't chap the dates, he didn't have that one. I have a hard time seeing the ice fancy on the Ravaja didn't. I I I have a very hard time with just saying Nishabaturah. It's not it now knowing Khaches, I would say. I'm not gonna say it's about Ravaja, but if someone knows Khoches and then says that that Ramash is Nishra Batarachin on the Rambah, it's not an honest portrayal of Romish. Ramish was not Nishra Batarach in the Rambah. He had a shot in the Rambam that he spells out in Khachas where he comes out that supports his case. What?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

I'm picking on Smarna, I'm picking on Khabaz. Okay. I just want to um just because six minutes, just just uh you don't have to listen to this part, but just because we're on a recording, I just uh Barkashan, we've been on the 24-6 now a couple of weeks, and I noticed today that we have uh 1,200 streams. I don't know if they listen to more than 30 seconds, but they have 1200 streams. I just want to say for all the uh the the new listeners, thank you very much. Thank you 24-6 for allowing me to stay on for now. Uh maybe now uh maybe I start off with Spartan throwing me off. Um but also just just in case you don't know, that what we do every week is we go through uh Silo Igor Smith, uh random order, no particular order, usually 20-25 minutes today. It looks like we're in about 27 minutes, and it's just about our our dear friend Paul Cryman which case is Ben Yoshwa David, who is uh uh uh a lover of uh of Igor Smith and and this this you know uh all the learning that is done on this however long the series goes for should be listening to us. Thank you very much for listening. If you have any uh critiques or uh questions or feedback, feel free to email me to Dolly Wealogus at gmail.com. Um