Cholov Yisroel in America

Yoreh Deah 1:46-49. The history and lomdus of Rav Moshe's well-known kula with respect to "chalav hacompanies."

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Okay, let's get started. So there's a lot to cover in a short amount of time. So um let's just give a quick background. Kal Yaitsaminatame tame. Any food that comes out of a non-kosher animal is not kosher. Kalyitsaminatara tar anything food that comes out of a kosher animal is kosher. So cow milk, kosher, camel's milk, not kosher. There's just examples. Okay, so the uh the Mishnah Dazara Daf Lamid Hay says that milk that was milked from a kosher animal, at least allegedly from a kosher animal, by a non-Jew is usually that's what's commonly referred to as chalavakam. That is not in debate. There's no machlikas about that. There's an issue of chalavakum. Now, why? Why do we have this issue? So the Gomorrah's ultimate conclusion is that we're afraid, not that the guy is selling you camel's milk, but that he may have mixed in a little bit of camel. I'm using camel as an example. It could be horse milk or whatever other non-coster animals in milk. He may have mixed a little bit in. Okay. Now, the shiloh that's poster of Maisha is, hold on, did you take mine? Did somebody take mine? No, I haven't, I haven't. Uh the Shiloh that's poster of Meisha is does in today where all everything's commercialized, does that change the reality? Does that change the issir of chalovakum? Why? Potentially, one could argue that nowadays, if I go buy milk from the local corporation that sells milk, although it's owned by a non-Jew, I know, potentially, we have to discuss whether you do actually know. I know that it's cow's milk, I know that it's kosher milk, I know that they're not lying. So that's A. And B, if it's in fact true that I do know, does that change the halach? Or does potentially say it doesn't matter whether you know or not, chalavakam is chalavakam and it's aster. That is the shaila that Romansha deals with. Now, Ramesha deals with this in a number of chuvas. Um, the main three are Yarodechel Galv Simon Memzayan, Memches, and Memtes. Um, I also copied in the back another truva. We'll see if we have time to get to, but we're gonna start from actually the chuva before, which is Simon Memvav. Um, it's the the last paragraph before Simon Memzaian. Um this truva was written December 18th, 1949. So Ramisha was relatively young, he was in his 50s at the time. It was to a rev Uri Meir Hakai, and he was a Litvisher Rev who was eventually appointed as a Raman Taravadas. And his shahila was a different shail. The shail was whether a machal shabba says then of an Akam or a Yisraal, and it comes to Khalabakh, Ramesha is ultimately Makal. But at the end of his truvah, Urmesha, Darak Agav throws in that he takes issue with some of the lush and that this Rev uh Rev Uri Mayor used. He said, He uses lushan of La Elaham is Darim Islam Khal of Habaminar. Those people who are who are careful about uh milk that comes from an Akhri. I think Ramosh is taking issue, it's very dismissive, as if most a lot or large portion of Khalishal was not Nizar in Halacha. That's what I think Ramosha understood from this Shayol. And Ramesha pushes back and he says, these people that you're like so dismissive of, these are these are good people. Rak, and when we say they're not careful about chalovakam, no, rack me chaloshal companies. Ramesha came up with this term, chalafha companies, right? They're just they're just not careful about khala from companies, they'll buy milk from a corporation. And he said they have a good reason for that because they have a they're they they misarsi larev. The corporations have a concept of mersis, they're afraid, they're afraid to combine kosher and not kosher milk because there is a hashka of the government, the USDA or the FDA, whoever oversees um dairy farms, they're the ones making sure that there's no uh non-kosher milk, and therefore it's there that's varu la fiances. I think they're right. I think they're right. He says, but of course, to buy from your local farmer down the block, of course, that's Usser. And he says, nobody does that, everyone's careful. So he's very he pushes back against the allegation that a large portion of Khali Straw was not Nizar in the Halakhas of Khalvakam. So that's the first time I as I as far as I know that we have in writing Remysha saying this heter. And it's just when the milkman drops stuff off. What? It's also when the milkman drops stuff off. The milkman drops stuff off from the corporation. Right. Is that was the milkman always in his eight he was young, he was always bringing cold straw. I don't know if he was uh bringing chalovakum. Um okay. Now, so it's just like important to take a step back and realize that people say, you know, spoiler, a mysha is make oh, right? Well, I guess I already said it. But um, yeah, yeah. Sounds safer people, not so that's a function. I know. Umisha was makeup. The people make it sound like, you know, Remoisha created this hectar, you know, created the hectar. Now, the reality, of course, is not that like all of America was every day getting their golden flow cold user, and then one day there's a new saver comes out, here's Mysha, they open it up and they're like, hey, we can have go have, you know, they have a Kit Kat party that night. That's obviously not the Mitsu. You see, the Mitsis clearly was that most of America was not Nizhard in this. They were buying milk from corporations, and Ramosha was the one not that changed the act the the act the activities of America, but explained what they were doing and justified it. And maybe ultimately had an effect that more people would eventually be eating caliphat companies, but it wasn't like he was the one that found that got America to start drinking caliphies. It's just well, you came to America. It wasn't like you know, Yiddish Kai was not exactly, you know, not they weren't isn't everything because we just started. Listen, you asked your great-grandparents, they used to you know buy food without, you know, they didn't have an extra, they would just read the ingredients. So, shake though. Um, yeah, shake was another thing they didn't keep. Okay, fine. So now we got to the the first direct chuva on the matter. And this chuva is in cinemasin, it's too a review who the dick. We'll discuss, I guess, maybe soon who that was. I mean, not you related. Um, um and this chuva was written June 16th, 1954. So it's four and a half years after the chuva we just read. Um, and what's fascinating to me about the Shile is that every time you discuss the issue of Chalovstam, we call Khalstam or Khala companies, right? People always say Ramosha was the one that came with the Hetar, and then someone from the back, well, yeah, oh, the Chazanish also held that way. You know, it's like it's like secret Chazanish in and off. And it's true, Chazanish does say they have it right here if you don't believe me, the Chazanish seems to suggest the same heter. There's a concept of Myrsas, um, and that you can rely on the corporations, the oversight of the corporations. But what I found out yesterday was that this review, who did dick, he claims that when he sent the Shila to Revmaicia, he literally wrote, Can one rely on the heter of the Chazanish? So it was actually the heter of the Chazanish that triggered Revmisha's heter. Now, that's that's not to say had he had he not suggested it this net heter wouldn't ever have come out, but it's just interesting that the Chazanish Heter plays a significant role, even though Romisha's not even mentioned the Chazanish, but it plays a significant role in this discussion. Okay, so um now this would be who the dick, he was 20 years old at the time. He was holding in everything at all times and like every DIC and every region. And then you see a 20-year-old who was later became a lawyer who was who helped uh author the uh Shabbos laws, the protection that that uh employees have to keep Shabbos. And at 20 years old, he was uh Yeshiva Bakr and Besatalman, and he's writing chuvas back and forth through Major Finances just mind-boggling. The the the okay, but um I think he was 20 years old. I did the math grade. He was about 20 years old when he wrote these chuvas, but yeshiva baker. Um, okay, fine. So he asked the shaila, like we said, can you rely on the Khazan Shazda? That's the way he frames the Shila. So Romisha opens up by laying out the Mitsillas. He says, let's let's let's let's understand how this works. If you have a corporation and someone were to mix in non-kosher milk and they were caught, they'll be punished. Severe fines and ultimately shut down, right? Ravagine. Yeah, that's but if you look at Ramaisha's titles, Ravagain is uh is not so high for Rameisha, you know. Um but he was a clearly a very learned fellow. Um so so so we have a mirror, we have a fear, they have a fear, there would be no way that they would ever want to mix non-kosher milk and risk tremendous fines and potentially losing their whole business. Now, important to point is the sheet of the prehadish. Prichadash is very, very is a famous sheet that's very makal about Khal of Stam. Uh sorry, Khal of Akam, I shouldn't use the Khalfstam. Very maker about Khal of Akam. He's very practical. Khalakam is all about um if is there non-kosher milk? It's not like we'll see the Khamsam safe for later, like the super gzera with like no, it's all it's very practical halachal. We're afraid there's non-kosher milk mixed in. So the prechadash's kula is that if there's you have a whole herd, is that the word of cows, and there's there's no non-kosher animals in this herd, then there's nothing to worry about. You don't need it, you don't need to overseeing it. You could be makele. And not everyone's not everyone agrees it's a prehadish. But Ramisha says that my hetu of Mirsas applies even if you don't you don't have to accept the prehadish. Yeah, and this is a Ramaih that comes with the following isight. And if you could summarize Ramesh Shit on Khalva companies of five words, I think this would be it. Yadia Burahu Kuriyya Mamesh. Knowledge is just as good as seeing. The whole idea that you have to, that has to be a yastral, a Jew, overseeing is all to get to the ultimate goal of knowing that this milk that you're holding is 100% kosher milk. So if you can somehow, from some other way, get to that same result and know that the milk is 100% kosher, then it's kosher. And that's exactly what we have here. We have a Mirsa, what he calls an ansahadi, which is another way of saying, we know, we know the milk is kosher. There's no way that they would risk their license to mix in non-kosher milk, and therefore that uh would be a heter. And he spends a lot of time proving this idea that knowledge equals riyah. He brings a few examples. Um uhnus, right? You don't have to actually see the that you know Ruven was Mazak Shimon, but if you the circumstances prove that Ruven was Mazak Shimon, right? The case of the Gemar of the camel was shooting out rocks and you didn't ever see the rock. Um, that's one example. Uh, he says potentially even tefila's garim, you don't have to actually see the tefilah, maybe you just have to know that the tefilah was done. And kidushin, kadushin, you just see the ichod, right? You don't know what happened, what happened, what happened in the echun. We just say, hey, hey, the ihchin, henebiah. What do you mean? You didn't see the biyah. Yeah, but you know that there's an amzahad that the tabiyah happened. And if you throw with the kadush khtama, he lays, he comes up with three, there's three rives that you rely on, and we still write those khazaka in the mice of nus, and al-daskadushan, but three, I forgot exactly the three rives, and we still say, listen, you know that you know that they were bail, you know there was a same kadush, you know the hine the yichin, hene the biyah, and therefore knowledge is enough. So that's your mice you say. Um, and another example he says eidina fashion. So we know the halach is that when when when two witnesses testify that someone was Mizanna, they don't have to see the literal actual mice's nuts. Some Tanayim famously said that you do, but we don't possibly know. You don't have to actually see the the mice. So you just see that it happened, you're just gonna know that it happened. Now it's true that by let's say Ritziha murder, you do have to actually see the murder. You can't just write the case of Shun Machta who says, I know it was you, but I you know, I've no, I can't prove it. Um, that wouldn't work by Ritziha, but Rameshia's in Dali from Rashi, that's only Gazer Zakasa. But the Ikri Said, unless it's a Gzera Zakasa, is knowledge, the whole point of Aetis is to get the knowledge. So if you have knowledge, you don't need Aetis. Okay. Um, therefore, concludes Remisha, end of the Shruva in the Zion. He says, Villa Khan, the last power, uh, second to last paragraph, yeah, that when it comes to Khal of Akum, if you know it's kosher, that's good enough. There's no issue with Khalakum, and the fact that they'll be punished many thousands of dollars tells us that there's a Mrs. and they're not going to do it. And therefore, there's a strong rationale to be makel, who kumai shakelam bizah, harbimid shame taira. Many from Jews are makal, the gam harabam, and many Rabbanim are makal as well. But like then, chashal to criticize him and say they're doing anything inappropriately, but he famously says, And he says there's no problem if you are who am I to be machr? No, you can be machim. He says, I'm Mahmer. And then he discusses whether you have to do a Tara's Nidharam. If you were Mahmar, you don't want to be Mahmer. He says, It depends. If you did a Bitaris Kumra, you would have to do a Taras Dharm. If you did a Bitaris Halacha, it turns out you were mistaken. It's not such a halacha, then you wouldn't have to do a Taras Dharm. Okay, fine. That is Icon the first chuba. Now we get to uh Sim Memchas. So now we actually have a copy, it's not published in the Igrash Mesha, but uh you find it online, of the letter that this Rebu Dadik wrote to Ravmeisha's 20-year-old, he starts off, you know, and he starts with a cute little pun. He says, Anan Sahadi de Moisha emisirase, right? And then he just goes at Remisha, like a 20-year-old kid. It's a it's a really a pleasure. It's a chutzpah, but it's a great, it's a it's a good chutzpah. He like he, you know, with becoved, but not like this, like falling all over himself. I I really shouldn't say anything. Lula didn't stifina, but you know, I'm just you know, maybe you could say no. He he argues, he's you know, he starts fighting with Remisha. Um, and he says, Um, so just the dates, he there the it was one month, he wrote the response one month later, and Ramisha responded back to him. That's what's printed over here, Memchas, two weeks later, right? Um and he says two basic issues. Number one, he says Ramisha got the Mitsia wrong. The fine, he says, and he he brings a letter from a government official, that's what Ramisha says, was $25. That's it. Do the math, it's about a little over $300 in today's dollars, which is obviously not a big amount of money, a large amount of money for a corporation. And he says the getting shut down, you're only gonna get shut down if it happens a bunch of times. And he says, open up a newspaper, he tells Ramaija every day the story is a bribery, people are bribing government government officials from today to tomorrow. So there is no MIRCIS.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Does a company have to gain from adding some other time?

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Look, so now now Romansha's gonna bring up that tie-nut. It's very interesting. It's gonna shift a little bit. What's the incentive? If it's all intent, so in the first two, he doesn't say anything about it, so he just says Mirsa. You'll see in a second. Yeah. Um, and then he takes issue with the alumnus, it's a little bit complicated. I can't say I understood it fully, and we certainly don't have time to go through it, but he wants to argue that this the Shah wants to argue there's two types of Aidis, right? As you know, there's an Aidus, well, you know, there's different yeshivish ways to frame it. There's an Aidus, uh, Libra, you just have to know, right? Like every Sa'di L Shak Shikh, you just want to know the truth, you just have to knowledge. There's also Aidus that is fundamental for whatever the issue is at hand. Not exactly Khabsigara, le brurah, the kiume, there's different ways of framing it. The guy who wrote the Romaji code of Barakber and Rukhai, okay, he's a Shiva guy. Um, and he wants to argue that when it comes to this shailah, the the mashkiakr, the aidam that you need is not librur, it's the qiyuma. It's a fundamental part of getting of making sure of satisfying the taqanas ghazal of khalaqum, is that you have to have aidis. Okay. And then he throws in sort of Darakhagov. He says, Almost you can't create your own anon sahadis. You can just make up anan sahadis. And he quotes from Akhwen, Anan Sahadi has to come from Khazal. It can't just be, I know, I know. There's got to be a uh a basis for the anan sahadi. So Ramisha first is not persuasive, he responds, he says, I'm not persuaded on the Matyas. Even if you're right that the fine is minimal, and that's where you start all of a sudden he shifts a little bit. He's like, Well, there's no incentive to do it. Why would they do it? Non-Koshar milk is more expensive in kosher milk. And he quotes Ngoran of like the Zara that uh they were afraid of maybe wine, and then says, No, there's no fear because wine was more expensive, right? Nowiness was more expensive, it's all shot of Yaineseh. And he says, also, it's going to involve in order for you to for you want to corporation, you you have to not just bribe the government officials, you have to bribe all your employees, not the whistleblower, right? It's all your old corporations. I mean, it's a massive conspiracy and all for what? For what gain? For very, very limited gain. Um, if no gain at all, no gain at all. Yeah, yeah. Um, and he says, even if you want to tell me it's small, the the ultimate thing is ultimate threat is their business gets shut down. And that's as big as it gets, right? That's as large a fine as it gets. So therefore, he's not convinced on the Matsia. And he says, listen, yeah, you don't make up your own anon Sahadis. I'm asking you to make them an anun Sahadi, but I'm not making up on my own anonsahadi. Myrces is a real thing, it's brought in Khazal in numerous places. Even in my Khalakum, the Halakh is that a Jew has to not see the milking. He has to, if you could, if you could go inside and make sure there's no other cows, no other animals. And he walks outside and he's standing by the Pasak. That's no, he doesn't have to actually see the milking. Why? Because it's not, it's not, it's uh Myrces is a real is a real because the guy has a Myrces of the Jew. So um Myrces is a real thing. I didn't make it up, it's not it's not my own anon's hati. Um then he says on this you'll lum this about this aid laqyuma. He says Linitina Davir Lama, or something like that, right? Yeah, Nitin Lama pay pay dollars first full column. You can't you can't even say such a thing. Of course, that isn't that is that is not true. Um again, like we said, if a Jew's sitting outside watching, that's enough. Obviously, it's not about you don't need aidim or aid ech, I don't even know what it would be. You don't need an aid, you need knowledge. That's the whole idea of a Jew sitting outside. Is that knowledge that the milk is 100% kosher? Fine, and therefore again he concludes about a chain, the second to last paragraph. It's correct. I stand by my first shuvah. But again, of course, about nefishim machr, fame is no problem of gaiva. Okay, I'd come the second shuvah. Now there's a third shuvah now. This I couldn't find the the letter from this rehudidik, but again, it's through this rehudig again. Same person. It's a month and a half later, it's August 31st, 1954, and he comes up with a new taina that Ramay should take seriously. His new taina is okay, fine. You convince me the corporations are regulated, there's Mirsa, fine. You don't need you need all you need is knowledge is an ad-zahadi. But where do the corporations get the milk from? Now, most of their milk probably comes from their own dairy farms, but if they're running low, they go to the farm and down the block. They have contracts with the farmer down the block. So even if you want to tell me that the corporation is regulated, but the farmers that they get the milk from, they're not regulated, and therefore you're you're you're you know you're only as strong as your weakest link. The whole heather falls apart if they're getting milk from the from the farms. Um and Romisha accepts the validity of the Matsius that maybe that's true, but he starts off as true if he says, I cannot accept, I I still don't change my psac, and he goes through why. Now it's way too long to go through all the chaklavataria. I wrote it out and then I deleted it because I realized it was going way over 20 minutes uh to go through all the chaklavataria of this hegemon. But let's let's summarize uh let's just get a glimpse of of the lumdis. He says there's this there's another gazera besides the gizera of chalovakam of gvinasakam. Yeah, gvinasakam has our gazin. Now, only kosher milk can become cheese. That's Metsius. Only kosher milk can become cheese. So why? Because our ghazar on Gvinasakam. So the Gemara has like 10 answers. The Gemara is trying to struggle to figure out why there's a separate gazera of Gvinasakam. So there's a shit of R of Khanina that the simple reading of the Gemara is that there may be in the cheese pockets of milk. So Rashi explains. It means it might be non-kosher milk mixed in. Right?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Mixed into the cheese in the never cheese.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, Frek Tysmas, what are we dealing with? Shaitan? Why are they mixing in non-kosher milk? What are they doing here? Yeah, fine.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

So you have to fill an order and you run out of milk and you can't. No, no, we're talking about cheese. Non-kosher milk doesn't become cheese. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah, curdles, that's the word we're looking for. Yeah. Um so Tyson says a different Hollakan says Rashi. Fine. What's Pshat and Rash? How does Rashi defend himself? So the Kham Cyfer. Why? To drink. Now it's cow milk, but it's hell of accum because he milked it. And now maybe there's still, even though it's a block of cheese, there's still pockets of milk. Not camel's milk. Cow's milk, that's trafe because it's holoakam.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Why do you have to go from the cheese? Cheese in a presumption being called Akam cheese. Why is it that you're cheap?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Because the question is why you have to make two separate Xairas. I think that's the part. Yeah, it's it's a complicated. Um, so that's what Kham Saifer says. And Kham Safer says obviously anyone who looks at that would see that that's Prat and Rashi. And Rosha's like, I looked at it. I don't think that's Pashatan Rashi. Umisha says that it can't be Pshat Rashi. If you read Rashi's words, Rashi says the you're mixing Davar Tammy. It doesn't say that the you're talking about. So says says Mr. Here's Pshat. Pshat is that after the guy, like the Khamsaifer, the guy milked for drinking. Yeah? The guy milked for drinking. Now again, anytime a guy milks for drinking, there's a concern that what? He mixed in camel's milk. He mixed in non-coshers' milk. So that's so now the Xero Khalakum kicks in, right? Gazer of Khalavakum kicks in. So Malayla, not that, but not that like the Khazam safer said that it's all cows. No, no, we're afraid that there's some camel's milk got it. Fine. And now there's a pocket of actual trafe milk. Fine.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

So that's very well because the pottery the monk didn't curdle is the kosher milk. Kosher milk and the crow gave cheese. And that pocket is who put up.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

There you go. Yeah. Um, so but now Ramaisha says, hold on. That's Rukhanina. But with there's so many other Pshatab. This sounds like a very good Pshat. Why do all the Amiray reject Rukhanina? Why do they all come up with different Pshat? Says Remisha. You considers a few options, and his ultimate option, his ultimate where he lands, is the Yasai that saves Khal, the Khalisam Hatter. It must be, says Ramasha, that the entire Isr of Khhalov Akam only kicks in when it enters the Israel's Rashus, when the Jew buys it from the guy. But when a guy is buying from a guy, there's no khalachim yet. The khalaqam isr only kicks in. The gzair of chalvaqam only kicks in when you go ahead and buy it from the guy. That is why all the Amarayan don't accept Ravchhanina's halakh. Because if I'm buying cheese from a guy, even if he got it from somewhere else who milked it, that there's there's no Xer of Halvaqam. No, because it was in the guy's possession.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

It was in the guy's possession. Right. Maybe it's only on the hal and the cheese, right? When you buy cheese, it never was ever. Right, right, of course.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. Um okay. Now, based on this, if you accept this, you say, now the shell's concerned falls apart. Because yes, it's true. The the corporation bought the milk from a farmer. But guess what? Chlovakam only kicks in when I go and buy it from the corporation. When I go and buy it from the corporation, they have a mirror sus. So it's fine that the that the farmer down the block doesn't have a mirror sus because he hasn't. It's a big kidish. It's a big kidish.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Not alright. Not alright. You say how it's right too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Um, okay, so uh he throws in another potential angle to be matter, is that even if it doesn't say right, but there's a sheeta of the Matayainasan that says Badasaramah, that the the Xira of Khalov Akam doesn't apply but Taruvas. Meaning if I have Khalvisral and Khalovakam combined together, it's not, it's not not if you mix a little bit of cow milk into milk, it's a problem. But if you mix a little bit of chalvishral and khalovakam together, that would not be a problem, according. Now Ramisha himself says, I'm not such a fan of that cheetah, and the Shaq disagrees, but Alcapan Matsiraf it is. Yeah? So therefore says Ramasha, we've gone through the whole Sigya. Yeah, we've gone through the whole Siggya. Some of it got cut off. But um I've gone through the whole Siggya, and there's a strong argument to be Machakhulova companies. But again, of course, about Nef it should be Mahmah. Powdered milk uh powdered milk is a whole separate question. What's real milk? I that I'm not I'm not holding it enough to to apply not. Yeah? Now Ramaysa points out this khajma only works if the corporation is owned of is a guy. But if the corporation is a Jewish corporation, then the problem that this child just created is a big one because they're going, they're buying. The Khalakam kicks in as soon as they buy from the farmer down the block. So Ramaya says he still has the Matyainisan, but now he doesn't say it's Usar. Very interesting. He still doesn't want to say it's usually it sounds like it should be User because he doesn't, you know, the Shach was Machman. Remaicha seems to be knighted towards the Shach, but he says maybe you can be Mitsarif that the Jew has non-Jewish workers. A kapan in the Heter isn't clear. Fine. That is the end of the first three chuvas. Now I put in the back of the I put in the back uh another chuva. This chuvah is in Yerudeek, like uh I want to say days, maybe gimmel. Um, and this was 16 years later, after the first set of chuva, and it was a chuva to Rab Yasev Daiv Liner, who was a blujev achassin who was in the valley of Shivas, and he reached out to Remisha to ask him, based on your heter of companies, what should your schools be doing? What should their role be? So Remisha says, listen, I wrote that about uh Bal Nefishmi Mahmer. So he says, that it should be machmir. Yeah? He says, I know it's gonna be more expensive. I know that it adds up eventually to a large expense. End of the day, that's what Kenekh is about. You gotta teach your kids. Sometimes you have to be maestrant after sometimes you have to pay a little more to do the right thing. Um and therefore you should be, but of course he says if you're within a far out place with no khali israel available, there's no khali israel available, you can rely on the hefter. So Adkan Um Adka divermaisha. Now there are other chuvas, um, there are other chuvas that are not printed in Igris Maisha. I don't know what's reliable. Everyone's got an agenda on this, obviously. So I only stuck with the ones in the Igris Maisha. I would say a postscript that the the OU says that nowadays even the the farms are regulated. So the whole the third chuva where and with Remoisha's big kiddish of that the khilovakam only kicks in. When the Jew buys it, the chir would be satisfied. And so the khilovakum hat, the chalok company that is arguably better today than it was in time of though. Other people say that, no, today if you the form used to say, Do you have any camels or not other animals on the farm? It doesn't ask that anymore. So the Oyu's response, you know, when we go to a Schlachtheiz, and you know there's nothing on the form that says do you have any ham? Right? Because it's never pushed. And if you were caught with ham, of course the OU would shut you down and have the second. So the same thing. You think of a farm just because it doesn't say on the form that I don't have camels, of course it'd be shut down a second if you had camels on a dairy farm. Um how much time are we so far? Okay. Just just my own my own hargush at the end is you know, it's it's known to you that despite Romisha saying Balnafish should be Mahmer, there are many, I'm not gonna say any names of such an recording, there are many Talmudim of Ramasha, close, close Talmudim, who it's known we're not Mahmer and Khalah companies. They do we're not Mahmer and Khalah companies. But okay, so we have to so so and and of course we've all heard, you know, people say, you know, you rely on Ramaisha's head for Khalak companies. Ramaisha says Bam Lafish should be Mahmer. So you could respond, I'm not a Balmafish, which is fine. Nobody could force you to be a Balmatfish, right? Ramaisha himself says you can't cause all to criticize anyone who's eating chalobac companies. But I think there's more to it. I uh just a funny stuff. One Talmud, I won't say the name of the Talmud, but I heard it from the Baal Maysha, is uh is uh uh someone I know who is a uh um paddle ball partner with the customer ruv who's a Talmud of Ramaisha. And he bumped into him once in the gas station and he saw this Rav buying a Yuhu. And this guy, this is not Marchasa, these other guys, and he tells him whatever his name is Remko! And he turns and he says, Tavia, you never had a Yu-Ho! Missing out. Fine. So it's shot. I think, maybe. And we discussed this a little bit last week. Is that Yuhu? I don't know. Uh Yu's are good. Um is that, you know, last week he sort of brought it up. I'm not gonna go into it because it's late, but you know, the the Rama come was once Masarakushin at a wedding on a Friday night. Uh uh, it was Friday and went into Shabbos and he said, Don't want to go through with the marriage, and it was a big tumult. And the Ramah had to like, you know, write a whole chulen, defend himself, right? He defended himself, right? And and nowadays, if a rub were to do the same thing, he would not get half as much criticism as the Ramah. Why? He would say it's prefers Ramah. Ramah says Mutter. The Ramah couldn't say it's prefersh Ramah, right? Ramah couldn't say it. But now we have, you know, generations later, and and and we know who the Ramah is, and we know that the psalk of the Ramah of Makovul. So even though the Ramah himself is like, oh, only Bishasab Khaqadal, where was it? Yasam and Yasim and all these things, nowadays if a rubber would be a little bit more makal than the Ramah was, nobody would give him a hard time. I don't think they'd give him a hard time unless they don't know the Ramah, because the guy'd say prefersh Ramah. So I think there's an argument between made, and you can reject this, that Ramaisha, why do you say Abandonabashmi Mahmer? Because it's a shikultairah and Ramasha says, listen, I'm a Pisic, I have the right to say a shikultaira, I believe in my shakutarah and I'm gonna say it's Allah. I'm not gonna waver from that. But at the end of the day, I could tell you, you know, you never know, right? It's a shikultira. Maybe, maybe, maybe I'm making a tais. He doesn't, I don't want he doesn't say the word ta'isa, but it's always, you know, it's a risk, and it's also, it's new. It's it's it's controversial, right? So he's nervous, he says. But his Tamidim or Kalya Shal can, how many years later are we now? Uh uh six, eighty years later, after the first truh was written, can say, Nim Nuvagamru that Halakh is like Ramesha. You know, Ramisha was the place of America. We follow him in a lot of other, you know, in a lot of other uh uh um controversial questions. So Nim Novagamru that Ramesha is correct, and we don't have to worry even about Nafish. I'm not telling anyone anyone who's Mal Nafesh is Mahmar, of course, don't go out and start Inekal companies without speaking to a Raf, but it's just the hargasha that I had. Fine. Kabiril's still on?

unknown 27:20

Gabriel's still on.