Season 1- Episode 5: Lisa Magoffin- Succession Planning

This week on The Top Rail Podcast, host Phil Dean is joined by Lisa Magoffin to talk about one of the biggest topics facing Australian agriculture—succession planning.

It's a tough topic and sometimes even taboo in some families, however, is vital for the progression of a family legacy. If you are currently going through or it is inevitable that you will eventually have to succession plan, this episode is guaranteed to be worth listening to. 

This podcast is a result of the hosts being a part of Advancing Beef Leaders program. For more information about the ABL foundation visit ABL Foundation

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Welcome to the Top Rail, the go-to platform for open, honest conversations that develop, support, and unite the next generation of leaders in the beef industry. Our mission is to create a culture of openness and growth by celebrating vulnerability, authenticity, and the journeys that shape our people in agriculture. If you've ever leaned on the top rail at the end of a long day in the yards, you'll know that's often where the real conversations happen. And that's exactly what this podcast is about. Today, we're focusing on rural succession planning, one of the most important and often most challenging conversations facing family businesses in agriculture. Succession isn't just about transferring land or assets, it's about transitioning leadership, responsibility, and a vision in a way that supports both family relationships and long-term business sustainability. Joining us today is Lisa McGoffin, owner of Central West Livestock, a family business with deep roots in Western Queensland's beef industry. Lisa operates across three properties, Ashra Downs, Swanvale, and Korain, together covering around 200,000 acres in Western Queensland. Across these properties, the business runs a cattle breeding operation of approximately 2,200 head, made up of a 50-50 mix of waggy breeders alongside a conventional Brahmin cross herd. Their operation focuses on breeding and backgrounding cattle on their own country through to feedlot entry, with a strong emphasis on efficiency and long-term productivity. The business also runs a full-blood waggy herd of around 300 head, breeding their own bulls through an AI program to support the purebred herd, reflecting a strong commitment to innovation, genetics, and continuous improvement. Looking ahead, Lisa's vision includes expanding the operation through the purchase of another breeder property, allowing the Downs box to transition into dedicated backgrounding country. Alongside running a large and evolving business, Lisa is also a single mother to five children Sally, Gordon, Katie, Annie, and Jimmy, all of whom have now finished school and are pursuing their own career pathways, adding yet another layer of perspective to conversations around succession and legacy. Lisa, welcome to the Top Rail. It's great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Lovely. Thank you very much, Phil, for the invitation to join you today on Top Rail Podcast, and well done to you. I think succession planning is a obviously an extremely important topic for the rural industry and and the families here. It's one of those conversations that every rural business needs to have, and not many people feel comfortable about starting that conversation if they haven't already been down that track. So thanks, Phil, for the the hard topic.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

No worries, Lisa, and yes, I certainly agree with you. It's speaking from my own experiences as well. We'll dive straight in. Can you tell us about a moment from your experience that captures why succession planning, why getting succession planning right matters?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Certainly, Phil. I guess over time I've been privy to being part of family succession planning. Situations where there have been family estates involved, and then also being close to friends and family that have experienced different types of uh situations. And of course, this builds your experience, and and when it came to my turn to work out succession planning for my future, my family's future, then I had some of those experiences to lean back on or look back on on the good and the bad of it all. Um so I have seen different ways it's done. It's certainly very, very tough. Um I've seen where succession hasn't been discussed early enough, and you know, unexpected things happen, and that puts an extreme amount of pressure on family relationships, um, and of course, the business. And so I think it's really important that we plan as early as we can. I certainly don't claim Phil to be the expert in this area. It is one of the most difficult situations. I found myself going overseas oh, like about six years ago, Phil, and I thought, or maybe seven years ago, and I thought, oh, I better better duck in and sort this succession planning out in case something happens to me while I'm over in Egypt. And um glad I'm not there at the moment. But anyway, I went in and I had a clear picture of what I wanted. Well, I came out of that session um more confused than when I went in with a more blanket approach than I had anticipated to get me through my um time that I was in Egypt when um the kids were still at school and in their very early stages of working career in university as well. So all of that to say it it is complicated even for a simple process where I thought the situation was simple, but it's more complicated than you think. So very important that people start this as early as they can.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

I certainly agree with you, Lisa, that these conversations are are often often not started early enough. And um and when you do often when you do have those initial meetings, you you you quite do quite often come out of those with more questions and answers. Um Yes. Yeah. Do you do you see a a pivotal moment that shaped your approach to succession planning?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Oh no, probably not because I don't feel, Phil, that there's um a easy model that just fits everybody. Everyone's situation's extremely different and and difficult. And so there wasn't one moment that that shaped what I wanted because what I wanted I thought was very simple. But when you actually start to put that down on paper in a legal format, it you know, the what ifs come in and the and the it becomes extremely difficult. And to me, succession is about continuity, making sure that the business moves forward successfully, that's passion, you know, that's what I'm passionate about, that's why I'm here. I love our business, and that's what I wanted. Um, so it's about making sure that moves forward smoothly and successfully while also looking after the people involved. And of course, there's in our situation, and everybody has their own individual situation. But for me, I have uh three daughters that have uh professional careers and two sons on the land, and it's not to say that the daughters don't have an interest in the land, they certainly do, and a passion for it. So it's complicated, it's not just about the assets, it's about um looking after the people, looking after the relationships and acknowledging leadership and responsibility. So, no, there wasn't one pivotal moment that gave me the answers, it's about planning. Very important planning, discussion, openness, and it's doesn't take five minutes, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yes, it is a it is a um big process succession planning. Um in in your opinion, what what is the hardest part of planning for the next generation in a family-run operation?

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Well dealing well, planning for the family. So um acknowledging the children that aren't living on the land is very important, extremely important to me, as well as acknowledging the contribution for those children that have decided to uh dedicate their life. I mean, that's also a scary experience for them, for those young kids coming onto the land. Um, so it's trying to balance family and business. So at the end, their contribution is acknowledged as well. You're dealing with emotions, expectations, financial realities, all of this at once that you're trying to balance. So, what is the key to providing for the future? For me, it's including the children. I call them children, they're all adults now. It's including the members of the family in the future in the discussions of the future.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Yeah. Do you see? I heard you mention um, you know, people coming in onto the land and that being a scary venture for them now. Do you see that? Um how how how different do you see that as to when you were a you were a young woman coming onto the land?

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Yes, it's interesting because in our situation, um you know, the rural business wasn't big enough to sustain all family members. So um, and that was obvious, so we all went out and got our own careers and and jobs, etc. Um, but the I found myself um on the land and um yeah, that I think thinking back to that time again, Phil. Um I have seen situations where family have been involved and it's been very straightforward, but I also have seen situations where family members haven't been involved, and the end came, and everybody was surprised and shocked about you know the situation, and that put a lot of pressure on family relationships. So I guess um knowledge and inclusion, and again, that's complicated because you've got to look at family relationships too. So I guess it's it's all individual. The best you can do is the best you can do in your situation, and maybe just making sure that I as a as a leader, and in my situation as a parent and business owner, um is that what I want to do? Is it that I want to include the the um members of the family in these conversations, and is that the best way to build the business forward? And that's my approach.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, it all sounds very, very logical, Lisa. Um okay, so you you've filled us in on what you believe is the hardest things about succession planning. Now, what do you see are the pillars of a good succession plan?

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yes, definitely clear communication, defined roles, realistic financial structure with a plan that evolves over time. So I'm thinking this through in that it all comes back to discussion. And I think feel that gets very complicated in in family situations if family members don't get on and they don't have um the same ideals, etc. So I I'm not suggesting one model fits all because that's quite dangerous to suggest that. But based on my experience, um early clear communication is a good guide forward. Um I guess I have always provided a strong leadership for the children as they were growing up. So um, and then when we got to this adult stage, starting to include them in that decision making. But also very importantly, I feel quite passionate that the children all have had the opportunity to do what they wanted to do, um with no expectation that they had to come home. Um, because if they want to be something else, they can be anything they want to be. So that was also um a very strong viewpoint of mine is that um there was no expectation. You will be provided with an education, you do what you would like to do with that education, and then um, you know, we have got to a point now as I reach um a slowing down period for myself, it's important that the kids now start to communicate what what they are interested in as well, and we're certainly down the track with that. The other complication, Phil, which is really hard to approach, is on the in the land or on the land, is fair doesn't always mean equal. It's important to recognise contributions, risk, and involvement. And and that's difficult because emotions come into that as well for the kids that are away from the land and have chosen a career pathway, mainly probably because we're not big enough to support five children on the land. So it that's acknowledging the children that have taken other pathways, but also acknowledging the risk that the kids that have stayed on the land, not just speaking for myself here, but um for other family situations as well, and recognising their contributions, because I wouldn't like to get to 40 or 50 and have given my parents you know the best years of my life to find out that um at the end it's not what I thought it was going to be, or whatever. So to avoid those situations, I think clear, strong communication is important very early.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

I think uh a word that comes to mind for me around this and my own experiences is is transparency between your whole family. And I think I think it was an area my family really struggled with um was transparency and you know being able to communicate expectations and and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

We we do often hear that fairness between on-farm and off-farm family members can be one of the toughest parts of succession planning. Um is there any situations you you've seen out there that have that have worked well when families are trying to navigate that?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Um well, I guess off-farm ass building your off-farm assets is really the best way to navigate that. And that's not always easy because whilst you're building those assets, you're taking away from the development and growth of your rural business. Um, and also, you know, along comes a drought like I had here at Ashra 18 months after I bought this place, we went into a significant long-term drought, which um often puts pressures on growing the um off-farm assets. So I think you have to look at your whole structure financially, and you may have to compromise some of the building phase to allow for off-farm growth. Um, you know, there's there's a whole lot, and of course, this is where you need the very good advice from your accountants and solicitors, it's a team effort to get there. There's taxation, um many, many things that influence your business structure, and I guess it again comes back to good planning, good communication, and that's time consuming, and often people are just too busy, seriously. You know, you you put it on the list of things to do, and it gets pushed aside and pushed aside. We'll deal with that later, we'll deal with that later. But I feel it's risky dealing with it later because you know, members of the family grow older and introduce other people into their lives, wives, husbands, children, whatever. So the situation probably gets more difficult the longer you leave um it unattended.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yes, it is a constantly evolving situation. Um I heard you mention accountants and solicitors in there, Lisa. How how much do valuations and tax planning influence the way you structure a succession plan?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yes. Um definitely they play a big role, and good advice early from accountants and lawyers is essential. Um, you know, you may even need to move in some situations. I mean, mine is pretty simple and straightforward. I don't have a complicated structure, but you know, you need to have those conversations, and and it may be it I've certainly seen in big family organizations and potentially families that um there's conflicting family relationships, that's really difficult. And it may be that you need to use a third party, which they've plenty of. I was also part of the um RCS program a few years ago, and they have an arm, a succession planning arm that deals with that. So I sort of saw a lot of different situations, different family structures as part of that program that I belong to for three years. And um what I witness is um everything's so different, but personalities can uh influence that situation and and get very it get can get very fiery. So I guess again it comes back to just getting on top of it early um with good advice.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

So have you have you had to incorporate any sort of mediation in any of your conversations yet, Lisa? Or have you no I haven't managed to tell you you've managed to sort of be able to be able to keep away from that sort of area everyone's everyone's sort of getting along well enough around everything?

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yes, yeah. I I'm I don't know, like I guess I'm lucky um um in that I've had a few different experiences um in my own family. My father was a very clear leader and he had a very firm idea of what was going to go on and and we that was communicated with us early, so there were no it was still fair, but there were no expectations from the members and we all have good family relations and um I sort of do that with my children too, and and they're all still young adults and they're fully aware, so we're lucky that way. Um and I hope that you know that situation wouldn't change. Of course, there's pressures that could get put on personalities and sibling relationships and stuff, but um yeah, no, we're we're pretty straightforward, Phil.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Oh, that's very good to hear. There is um succession planning can cause a lot of rifts in families, and it's it's refreshing to hear that um that your family's coping with it quite well.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Well, it's a process, it's not a one-time decision, it's not a five-minute solution, and that my first approach to it really was years ago when I was embarking on that trip, and I thought, oh well, I'll just go down to Brisbane a day early and I'll made the appointments and I'll just get this all sorted. And um I did sort of laugh to myself really when I came out of it two hours later, and I thought, oh my god, all she did was confuse the whole situation, you know, and uh, but of course she raised issues that were um you know were very relevant and and that I've had to address. Um and I'm trying, you know, very hard to build a business structure that allows for um off-farm assets that won't infl that won't put pressure on the farm business once I'm I'm gone, because you know, along with obviously your farm business is not all bed of roses, there's a lot of risks and a and a lot of debt associated, etc. So um, you know, I want to make sure that that business is strong enough to um survive it as well. So yeah, I don't know, just all about planning, really.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah. To me it sounds like you're doing the best you can, Lisa. All right, listeners, let's have a look at some common myths versus facts around succession planning. Myth. Succession equals retirement. Fact. Succession is phased. Leadership and ownership can transition over time. Myth. Fair means equal. Fact. Equitable outcomes reflect contribution, risk, and roles, not always equal shares. Let's dive back in, Lisa. What strategies have worked for your family to keep conversations constructive?

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Um well just being willing to if any members of the family ask any questions is being willing to give them um information and advice so they don't feel left out. So good communication. Um what else? I don't know. I guess in my situation, the kids have seen me as a leader, so they've sort of f followed. Um and we're only just coming out of Jimmy's, you know, I suppose he's surprisingly it's now nearly five years, which is unbelievable, out of school. But I felt like we were in that school phase for a long time, and now they're all young adults, all still in their twenties, and um yeah, just allowing the discussion to happen, having good family relationships. Um that's about all I can think of, Phil, really.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

No, they do certainly sound like um constructive methods anyway, Lisa. Um A lot of families find the hardest part of succession planning is the conversation itself. Um, especially when expectations don't necessarily line up.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

What methods have you used to create space for those discussions and to keep them productive?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Okay. So I think the key is to start as early as you can. And for those families, and there's plenty of them, and it doesn't make them, you know, wrong or anything, life goes on, and those conversations haven't happened until later in life, you know, where perhaps the um the next generation are already 40 or 50 years old with um with partners and children. Yeah, that's where the conversations get extremely difficult, and the expectations and having partners who feel that things are uneven or whatever. So I recognize that. Um, I've seen that in other situations as well. So communicating to the kids what my thoughts are and my um expectations early has probably been the key thing, and those key things are this is the life that I love, and this is my life, and if it you know, if it's not a journey that you want to be on, that's fine, I don't mind, because at the end of the day, we can um you know, you can move on or sell out or whatever, and um so I've left I've communicated with the children early, I guess, not too early. I've never been a believer in young children knowing adult stuff, I want them to be whatever they want to be, but but this sort of period of time where they're young adults, um, and yeah, it just and it becomes complicated because once you start thinking about your retirement and the pressure that will put on the business as well. So trying to plan for that so that the business left behind is not compromised, yeah. Um it all sounds perfect, but it it is difficult to to pull it all off because you know there's so many other pressures on the business, like long droughts, um, you know, commodity prices and sort of stuff. Yeah. And where we're at now, honestly, um, what pressure does that put on a rural business?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah. Yes, it's gonna be very interesting to see where rural work goes.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

I feel I've been lucky in that I've been fortunate that that children could all have a beautiful education and that they've chosen careers that they want to be in. I think that's really important. That's first and foremost that you do what you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

I agree, and I think that's a very important part too. And I know my parents always, you know, they they never sort of through those school years, they never had that expect expectation on us that we had to come home. Um, they wanted us to go out there and experience some different things and um different lines of work and all that sort of stuff. And I I d I agree, I think it is a very important thing, Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Um you know, I've probably seen Phil in fam in family and friends that have felt, especially in that older generation where there was an expectation that you know in in most cases that the boys come home or whatever and um help their parents. And I've probably seen situations where maybe those people would have been better off in another career line and it was just probably not available to them.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's understandable as well. Lisa, if a if a family listening to this is just starting to um think about succession planning, what are some of the most helpful things they could do early in order to set themselves up for success?

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Well, I feel I feel like um I'm repeating myself in that I don't have any new clear things to give you, but I think addressing the issue and good communication and having those conversations, but if that's not if that's not available because family members don't get on or there's a lot of pressure, or there's already introduced partners or whatever, then I think setting up structures that allow those conversations to be held with with the help of professionals, accountants, lawyers, or advisors that work in that area. So definitely good early communication, but uh but a good leadership too, really important for not a dogmatic leadership or an overpowering leadership, but a leadership that that provides guidance for this process to happen.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yeah, okay. I've I have heard you refer back to early conversations several times, Lisa. Um in your opinion, and I understand, you know, one size won't fit everyone, but in your opinion, at sort of what age do you believe those conversations need to start with your children? Um is it sort of straight after school? Is it final year of school? Is it a couple of years, a couple of years after school?

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Well, it's interesting, Phil, because I have uh again, I refer back to my experience of seeing other people do this, and I've I've seen other people involve their children in these type of conversations from a very early age, uh early teenage years, and that's fine, and they believe in that, and I absolutely respect their choices. For me, my focus was uh my personal decision was more allowing the children to develop their natural ways throughout those years of schooling with without any expectations, so I didn't have any of those conversations with the children really before they left school. Not to say that some of them might have worked out quite early in the piece that um, you know, we were no VRD, so there wasn't ever going to be a situation where all five children could come home and build families and enterprises. So whether in their minds, but I just gave them the freedom, and the only thing I ever did say to them was I'll give you the education, you take the opportunities. I definitely said that a few times, and then I just let them be and let them find their own journey, and um I feel that's worked for us. I'm not saying that um, you know, I don't want the kids that are off the land to feel that they're not connected because really, when you're born into the land, it's a very strong pull, and I want them to feel part of that as well. Um, and every time I have a new idea feel in my own mind to uh to give them some connectivity to the land and to the properties, you you're sort of then getting hit with something else that puts pressure on your business. Yeah, and so you've for me it's like we're always in survival mode trying to make sure the next step's good and and strong. But I'm lucky in that the girls by their own choice have taken um some very successful career pathways.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Yeah. Do you believe um that you you could as you as your kids were growing up, do you believe you could you started to pinpoint which ones were more likely to come come home as compared to which ones were more likely to take different career paths?

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Well, that is an absolutely fantastic question because in my family, and again, I only put my family up as an illustration because every child's very different, and I have seen some amazing little kids that you know are welding little things by the time they're you know six years of age or seven years of age, and who knows where they'll end up. But um I have all my kids were a very meaningful part of the of the working of the place as they grew up. So they can all ride horses, motorbikes, master, etc. And it brings me great amusement that um, well, I won't say you know, at risk of offending the other girls, but one of my greatest um little horse riders who could hop on a horse, they're all they were all good. So I'm not trying to isolate one, but anyway, I used to put a bit of pressure on this little one, and she would help me at the drop of a hat and um muster cattle in. And I remember one time it was only her and I, and we were getting a paddock of sale cattle in, and they were pretty big and heavy, and uh took a bit of handling, and and the pressure was on her, and she performed very well, and now she's the one that has a passion for fashion in retail industry in Smith Street in Melbourne, could not be further removed from the land. And if I offered her a place, I don't think she'd take it up. I think she's quite happy doing what she did. So I suppose that's a long way around to answer your question, Phil, about recognizing those skills in the kids early. But um, yeah, they were uh it's hard to say. In my situation, I'm seeing skills come out um later in life, natural skills of each of them that um perhaps weren't recognized in their early ages.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Okay, and you believe those natural skills you're seeing come out in them now is is what's led them down their career paths that they've chosen? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Yeah. Um and I wouldn't have picked that uh as early. Uh and I can see that in in all of them, you know. Sal thoroughly loves her um surgical work, um, and we have some great conversations around that, and I mean there's a lot of pressures in the career she has chosen, but it's particularly the surgery that she really likes. And then Katie, again, another very good horse rider and and key worker in the camp, and she um has taken a a career in Canberra. Um, I don't think her grade five teacher or me would have recognised that back in the primary school days, but she's excelling very well there. So no, they've their skills have led them in in the pathways that they seem suited for.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

That's that's great. And um yeah, knowing all your all your children personally, it's it's very nice to see them all having um such good success in their chosen areas.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

One funny little thing, Phil, is you know, by the time we got to Jimmy, and then um he's still mad keen on on chasing bulls, and um I'm hoping he'll grow out of that very quickly, but he seems to be. But what amuses me is when they come home, the great advice that they can give. Um and I I sometimes think I've um done very well at breeding a mob of uh experts.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

No, you have certainly done a great job with them all, Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

So-called experts, anyway, Phil. When they come home and tell me how to run the show.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yeah. Um there any resources or templates out there you would recommend to any of our listeners that may have helped you in your succession planning journey, Lisa?

SPEAKER_01 41:13

No, Phil, I haven't gone down that pathway. Um, I have um, you know, seen the help that good succession planning businesses can provide. The likes are through RCS, and there's been other uh providers as well. And I think that has worked well for families I've seen out here when they've brought an outsider in to help with that. Um definitely it's a bit of a shock when you go to your accountant and your solicitor, and you have to combine both of them to get that um tax situation and etc. worked out. That's a little bit more complicated than you think. Um yeah, no, I think um just just getting good advice, so there's no one template that makes it easy. It the steps are starting the conversation as early as you can. Not young children, in my opinion, but that's a personal opinion. But you know, once people are up and going a bit, making sure you have those early conversations and then moving it forward to your professional advisors.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Yeah, okay, yeah. All right, so shifting to leadership for a moment, Lisa, if you were if you were speaking to the next generation of farm leaders, what would be the key things they should focus on now to make succession easier down the track? And I under I understand we might get some repeat answers out of you again, but we'll just we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Well, I guess getting involved early, understanding the business, building their capability over time. Um good communication is essential because if you don't have it, things build up. So someone's so say you've got the older and you've got the younger, and everyone just goes about their work and does their work, but there's not a lot of communication around this subject, then you're at risk of expectations growing apart, and then you're at risk of other people becoming part of their lives and adding another influence or another ex level of expectation. And before you know it, you through no one's fault, you could be poles apart, yet everything was fine down in the shed and out in the paddock. In the cattle yards, but if you let too much time go without addressing the issues, keeping everybody happy or at least well communicated. So I think for the next generation, it's about getting involved early, understanding the business. And if, and Phil, there's definitely older generation, probably get shot down there if I'm saying older, maybe just say a generation of people out there who don't like talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

And don't want to approach that's really tough for the next generation. And they may, the next generation may be the ones that need to approach the this conversation and draw the other generation in so that um it the process can be started. It doesn't mean that it's so complicated, isn't it? Because it's not that you're asking that everything be signed over or whatever. You just need an understanding of where we're all heading so that one generation can work towards a comfortable retirement, and the next generation are definitely getting recognition for their commitment and um for the years that they've been there. Because I just honestly don't think it's very fair if if that gener during you know the next generation get left out on the lurch and they're 40 years of age with no other skills. So I feel pretty passionate about that too.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

It's a commitment.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

It is, it certainly is a commitment. Um one thing I've found that's helped me is is um involving myself in courses that have helped to improve my communication methods, and then you actually sort of start to learn the best ways to approach conversations with certain people, because there's a different way to approach conversations with everyone. I've found that a huge help.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Absolutely, and and what you're alluding to is that there's so many different personalities and relationships. So this is why there is not one template or one model that fits all. From what I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree, Lisa. Um as farming businesses look to the future, how important is a structured succession plan when it comes to developing strong leaders, retaining people, and keeping the business performing well?

SPEAKER_01 47:58

I think that's the key. Everybody knowing what the direction is, we're on the same path, we're striving, this is what we're striving for. It's giving those members ownership of where they are, and which encourages them to be the best they can be, and they're wanting so they're working the best for the business. Um and fulfill fulfillment as a person too. Um, I've seen situations where family members have come along and they and they feel they're not worthy because they don't understand the situation or there's a lot of friction or whatever. So if we can avoid that early in the piece by building building the blocks together and everybody knowing their role, um, clear communication, defined roles, realistic financial structure, and planning together over time, I think is essential.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Yes. No, I certainly agree with you there, Lisa. Um, yeah, thank you very much for sharing your insights and practical tools around succession planning, Lisa. It's it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the Top Rail podcast.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

Oh, thank you very much, Phil. I don't really feel that I've given any clear direction of a great answer to the big topic of succession planning, but all I would say is that good succession planning sets both the business and the family up for the future, and it's worth every bit of time that you can put into it with all the the means that you have, and um recognizing the differences in your business. So it's not easy for somebody to take too much of what I say and put it into their business if it's if their business situation and family situation is different. So I guess it's recognizing that um and just starting the process with as early as you can with good communication. But that's in my opinion, what makes good succession planning and um looking after both the business and the family. Family, you know, is very important. So thank you so much, Phil.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

You're very welcome, and I think you just summarised that whole episode perfectly, Lisa. This episode was recorded as part of the Advancing Beef Leaders program, which supports emerging leaders across Australia's beef industry. At the top rail, we believe vulnerability and authenticity are strengths that shape our industry's future. Subscribe, share this episode with a mate, and join us next time as we explore more journeys that build leadership in the beef industry.