How An Iranian Activist Turned Loss Into A Human Rights Mission with Zolal Habibi

Grief can break a person, or it can set a direction. We talk with Zolal Habibi, an Iranian human rights activist who has spent more than 25 years advocating for political prisoners, women, and freedom seekers. Her story begins with a wound that never really closes: her father, a writer and political dissident, was killed when she was a child during the 1988 prison massacre in Iran, when around 30,000 political prisoners were executed in a matter of weeks. She explains how that loss became a lifelong commitment to telling the truth in public, especially when the regime works hard to silence it.

We also dig into what’s happening inside Iran now, and why the world often gets trapped in the wrong choices. Zolal Habibi lays out a clear framework she returns to again and again: the solution is neither war nor appeasement. We talk about the human cost of conflict, the dangers of treating a brutal theocracy as a “normal” negotiating partner, and the long history of foreign intervention in Iran that makes many Iranians determined to take their destiny into their own hands.

Then we focus on women, forced hijab, and the deeper history behind the images that have traveled the world. Zulal describes decades of resistance, the scale of state violence against women, and why women’s empowerment and leadership are not side stories but the engine of change. If you want practical ways to help, she shares where listeners can find more information and how to connect with groups supporting Iranian freedom.

If this conversation moves you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it.

Transcript

Why This Conversation Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Dear listeners, you know, like there are people in this world who carry a grief so large and a purpose so clear that the two become inseparable. They lost something irreplaceable and instead of being broken by it, they turned into a life's walk. Yeah. And today we are with one of those people, a woman who has spent over 25 years amplifying the voices of those who cannot speak freely, advocating for those who have been imprisoned, tortured, and executed for wanting the same things most of us take for granted. Freedom, dignity, the right to exist as they are. So this conversation matters, and I'm really grateful that we are having it. So, welcome back to another powerful episode of My Made Machine. I'm your host, Abek, and today we step outside the usual boundaries of this show and into something larger, a conversation about human rights and what it actually means to fight for a free world. And definitely want to be a witness and more than a host. So let's get started. And I have to say this that today we have a very lovely uh lovely guest with us, and my guest has dedicated her life to this. So please welcome Zoral Habivi. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Thank you for having me, Abik. It's a pleasure to be with you, and please allow me to greet those who are tuning in to the podcast today. It's a pleasure to be with you, and thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Amazing. Amazing. Thank you so much, Zoral, for uh being

A Childhood Marked By 1988

SPEAKER_02 1:25

with us. Also, to listen to quickly introduce you with Zoral. She's an Iranian human rights activist with more than 25 years of advocacy on behalf of political prisoners, women, and freedom seekers inside of Iran. So her activism began in her teens after losing her father, a respected Iranian writer and political dissident, to uh 1988 Masker. And since then, she has carried his store uh his story and thousands of others to the international platforms, human rights forums, and global media. So I'll not take much of your time, dear listeners. Let's get started, and it's an honor to have you here, Zulal. So, so Zalal, like before anything else, I definitely want to give you a space to share your own story. Like you you were a teenager where you lost your father, and yet rather than that loss destroying you, it became the beginning of a lifetime of advocacy. So, how did that happen for you and what your father's life and death teach you about what you were supposed to do with yours?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Well, uh when my father was killed, I was seven actually in the summer of 1988. And uh well, the thing is that I had gotten introduced to the human rights situation in Iran before that, because of my parents' activities and work, especially my dad's. And so, as you mentioned, there are times that we take for granted what we have, or there are times that we actually learn that hey, we have something that others are it's not a given for everyone. And many, you know, uh are denied those basic rights and liberties. And so growing up as a child, I knew that you know the human rights situation in Iran was catastrophic. I had met people who were like victims of torture when I was four or five years old. I knew people who had, you know, children my age who had lost their parents or had been held in prison or even were born in prison. And so having that grasp of what is actually happening in Iran, I think it made it more bearable when I came face to face with my father being killed by the regime. Because even then I was first of all, I was able to understand that I'm not an exception to the rule. It's not something that this is not something that has just happened to me. This is there's a larger problem at hand, and that is the Iranian regime that survives on these executions and killings. And that summer, actually, 30,000 political prisoners were executed in a matter of five, six weeks. And so it was a turning point not only in my life, but in the life in the history of Iran, really. And actually, it is still to this day considered one of the most severe crimes against humanity since World War II. And so, you know, and in just in recent years, it has been labeled as a genocide. So having that perspective really helped me deal with what I was dealing with and to understand that, you know, I wasn't alone in this fight, I wasn't alone in this path. And try to always be grateful for what I did have, the fact that I didn't have to live under those unbearable circumstances in Iran. The fact that, you know, I actually had the chance to grow up with my father to some extent. Something that, like, for instance, my brother, unfortunately, didn't have the opportunity because he was only three when my father was killed. And so that really, I guess, seeing the cup half full really helped in coping with the pain and everything that we were going through. But also seeing the bigger picture. And I think that that really helped me knowing that my father hadn't lost his life in the rain, knowing that he had a purpose and he was very dedicated to it. And remembering how dedicated he was to it made it, you know, easier for me to cope with because I knew that this was a it wasn't something that was unexpected. It was something that he chose in his life to pursue freedom and liberty, no matter what the cost. And I think that at the end of the day, my father, yes, he was a prominent writer, but I think that he signed his work with his own life and with the example that he set. It wasn't just mere words or something that he was dictating to others. He actually stood for those same values that he worked on. And so I take great pri pride in that. For me, I guess um growing up, Ivan was always part and parcel of my life because of the circumstances, because of my parents' activism. But also as I started growing up and becoming more independent myself, it was a you know decision that I was making step by step. I remember when I was 12

Choosing Activism While Growing Up

SPEAKER_00 6:05

years old, I decided to spend my spring break going to Congress to try to raise awareness in Congress and get members of Congress to sign on to statements in regards to Iran. Well, that wasn't the norm for a 12-year-old, you know, child, but that was what I did. But step by step I became more and more active. But there was always this um, I guess, two parallel lines. On one hand, you know, it was my normal life, my continuing my education and you know, just uh the life of a normal teenager. And then the other path was the path of activism that I was, you know, on to. So these were continuing both at some kind of a balance until the turning point for me was in the summer of 1999. At that time, I had just graduated from high school. I was I'd gotten a full scholarship to go and I was going to go and study pre-med to, you know, become a doctor. And that summer though, student protests broke out in Iran. And the student uprisings, it was the first time that it was our sorry, can you hear me with us the rain?

SPEAKER_01 7:10

I can I can hear, I can hear.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Okay. I mean thought I might wait for like a minute for this to go through.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

I mean, it's fine, we can we can.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

I think it'll be done in like one or two.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

It's fine, we can record. I mean it's uh the the background noise will be cut anyways, no issue.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

But it's not that bad. Uh I So in the summer of 1999, what happened was with the student uprisings broke out, it was the first time that people from our generation were tapped to the streets. So it was the generation born after the 1979 revolution that was coming to the streets. And it was also the first time since the 1988 massacre that a major uprising was taking place in Iran. And it was also the first time that it was actually being televised because it was the start of cable television and cable news and CNN and whatnot. And I remember seeing those, you know, images coming out of Iran live and thinking to myself, what are you gonna do? Are you just going to be a bystander and just watch from abroad and then hope that you know this vision will be toppled and then you can go to Iran? Or are you going to be one of those who actually does something about it and is able to bring about that change so people can actually return to Iraq? So for me that was a turning point. And at that point, I decided to join the Iranian resistance, and it's almost been 27 years now that I have been an advert of the Iranian resistance.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

I mean, it's thank you so much for sharing that. And like obviously there are no uh words adequate to what you have just carried, and I definitely want to acknowledge that before

The 1999 Protests Change Everything

SPEAKER_02 8:40

we go further. And also the fact that you turned that grief into 25 years of giving voice to others is one of the most powerful things I have ever heard. And also, like, if you can I mean if you can share like about what's happening inside Iran right now, uh, because the world needs to understand it clearly that there has been an inspiration and execution and things. So for the listeners who may only have a surface understanding of what's happening, can you help us understand like what is driving this crackdown and what it means for the people inside Iran who are living it?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Well,

The Third Option For Iran

SPEAKER_00 9:15

I think as you can imagine, uh in any circumstances, a war comes with it devastation and the casualties of a war. And the casualties of war are not ever limited to just, you know, um slight infrastructure or things of that nature. It comes with a human cost, human casualties, civilian losses, but also you know, the damage that has been done to Iran's infrastructure is immense. But the reality is that from day one, not just now, but for over 20 years, um, the NCRI and Mrs. Rajabi, the president elect of the National Castle Resistance of Iran, has been emphasizing and telling the world look, the solution to Iran is neither war nor appeasement, because appeasement is going to find on the lead to a war. But war is never the solution. But there is a third option. You're not stuck just between choosing the two, because that seems to be the norm of thinking that, oh, well, we only we only have these two choices. Even right now, like for instance, with this mim uh memorandum of understanding being signed. Well, the reality is that, you know, we are negotiating with a regime that we know is a brutal dictatorship, that we know has killed thousands of its own people, that we know strives on terrorism and export of, you know, uh crisis, really. So what is the message that we're giving to the regime that, you know, everything is negotiable and everything we could turn a blind eye on everything that you have done. But on the other hand, the reality is that war isn't the solution. The solution is to support the people of Iran to bring about change. Because especially when it comes to Iran, we, if you look in the past century, we have the history of, you know, the effects of foreign intervention. Unfortunately, all the dictators in Iran have been installed by foreign powers in the past century, be it from you know Reza Paulavi, who was brought in uh through a coup d'etat by the British uh back about a hundred years ago, Muhammad Az al Pahavi being reinstated after the the coup d'etat against Dr. Mossadev in 1953, to Khomeini being brought into power after the 1979 revolution. Unfortunately, in all of those, you see the footsteps of you know foreign intervention. And so the Iranian people, they they know that because Iran is such an important country geopolitically and also in natural resources, they know that there are a lot of different interests who come into play. And so that is why they want to be able to take their destiny into their own hands and they don't want foreign intervention. But the reality is that a lot of people think that, well, you know, 47 years you guys have been fighting this regime, you haven't been able to overthrow it yet. So, you know, how do you intend to do that? The reality is that, first of all, we are against not a classical dictatorship, but a religious dictatorship, which is much more complex than a classical dictatorship. I think the fact that the regime has reached the point of no return even before the start of this war. And according to the I mean, the regime has been for years now, they have been celebrating every year on the inertia of the revolution that they're still in power because they know that their days are numbered. And the events in the last decade in Iran show that. I mean, we've had four major uprisings in the last decade in Iran. Each time you see it evolve and going towards the overthrow of the regime. But the reality is also that unfortunately, till now, the hands of the Iranian people and the resistance have been really tied because of the policy of appeasement. Due to the policy of appeasement, who has been used as the bargaining chip at the negotiation table over and over again throughout these decades? It's been the Iranian resistance and the people of Iran. So we have paid a grave price for that policy of appeasement. So, right now, what the people of Iran and the resistance are asking for is put an end to the policy of appeasement, allow the people of Iran to take their destiny into their own hands.

Ceasefire Then Executions Surge

SPEAKER_00 13:10

And I think that is something that's very key, and that is something that we need to emphasize on. Mrs. Rajavi actually gave a statement on as on June 14th, as uh the memorandum it was announced, it hadn't been signed at that time. But when it was announced, she gave a statement, and I I'd like to draw your uh attention to it because I think it draws on a very important point. In it, she says, uh just one second. In the statement, she emphasized that the Iranian resistance, which for nearly five decades has sought freedom and peace, welcomes any understanding to end the war and the suffering of the Iranian people. In Iran, no one except the remnants of the mullahs and the Shah has wanted or wants war. The effort to produce nuclear weapons, warmongering, and meddling in the countries of the region are part of the survival strategy of the religious fascism ruling Iran, and it will not abandon as long as it can. War is the regime's shield against popular uprising, while peace and ceasefire are, as Khomeini put it, like poison for it. The overthrow of the regime is the responsibility of the Iranian people and their organized resistance. And she reiterated once again that any international agreement to end the war must include an end to the executions of political prisoners and the killing of protesters, which has been rampant, especially since the ceasefire, actually. We have seen over 30 prisoners executed who were either people who were arrested in the January uprising or political prisoners affiliated with the Iranian resistance and members of the resistance units of the MEK.

Women Lead The Resistance

SPEAKER_02 14:55

And like also, I want to ask, like, the image of women moving their hijabs in the street, knowing what the consequences could be. So from there, like for the women watching for from the other parts of the world, what do you want them to know about their sisters inside Iraq?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Well, I think what's really important to know is that the women of Iran have never given in to this status quo and never given in to this misogynist regime. Actually, the first protest against Khomeini was against the Malvi, against the forced hijab. And it is interesting to note that those who are protesting, it wasn't just women who didn't have the hijab, it was also the women who did have the hijab who came out and said, Look, there's no force in religion, first of all. And second, who are you to dictate to women how they should dress or how, you know, or you know, get yourself involved in people's personal choices? And so in fact, the women who did have the scarves or did practice hijab, they created a human shield around the other protesters, the female protesters, to make sure that they could safeguard them. So from day one, the women of Iran have never given in to this regime and its brutalities. And in fact, in the Iranian resistance specifically, for the past 40 years, the Iranian resistance has believed in women's empowerment as a key factor in fighting this regime because we are up against a misogynist regime. So women's empowerment is the 180 degrees opposite of that, and it's a necessity to be able to create regime change. And so this is so the scenes that you saw in 2022 and you know, with women coming to the streets, it wasn't something that brewed overnight. This is something that has been in the making. And unfortunately, over 30,000 women have been executed by this regime throughout these years, from 13-year-old children to elderly mothers in their 70s to pregnant women. So the regime wanted to give this message that I see no mercy when it comes to my power. But on the other hand, we see that since 1985, actually, this movement has been co-led by a woman, Mrs. Rajavi, and she has actually set the ground to for women's leadership. So for women taking on more responsibilities in this movement. And what she has done is unprecedented really in history and how she has been fighting, because she believes that the path to emancipation of human beings goes through women's empowerment and because of all the double injustices and everything that women have suffered from. And in fact, she always says that, you know, it's like a spring. The more pressure that you put on a spring, when you take that pressure off, the more potential it has to jump. And that is the hidden potential that we're seeing in women in Iran. On the other hand, we see that all the secretary generals of the People's Majority and Organization of Iran, since 1989 till today have been women. The entire leadership council are women, and the president elected of the National Council of Resistance of Iran for the interim government after the overthrow of the regime is a woman, and over 50% of the NCRI are women. So really uh this movement has been a trailblazer when it comes to not only equality, but also women's empowerment. And we believe that women are the key for change in Iran. And in fact, this is something that we have emphasized for for

What Listeners Can Do Now

SPEAKER_00 18:15

decades.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Exactly. And also, I mean, about the conversation like 25 years is a long time to carry this book. So if you have to give one advice or one message to the listeners, what that will be.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Well, I think that what is really important is first of all, awareness. Raising awareness and informing ourselves is very key in any circumstances and in in any in any regards. I think that today, more than ever, when it comes to Iran, it's very important to raise awareness to say, first of all, there is a solution. It's neither war nor appeasement, it's supporting the people of Iran to create change. And also, aside from that, I mean, the people of Iran are not stuck between choosing between the current theocracy and the previous dictatorship, which was a monarchy. The people of Iran want to move forward in the 21st century to a secular democratic republic in Iran. And I think that's something that's really important to emphasize. And I think that in these circumstances, it is very important to try to echo that voice and try to spread that information. The reality is that unfortunately, right now we are faced with a rampant wave of executions in Iran. There are a lot of parallels today to the situation in 1988, because 1988, the massacre started the week the ceasefire was signed between Iran and Iraq. And since the day that the ceasefire has been signed, right now in this current war, we have seen an increase in execution of political prisoners. Yes, the regime doesn't have the free hands that it did in 1988 to have like a massacre, but it is going that down that path, and they have actually stated that in their media. So we're asking everyone to please try to be the voice of the people of Iran and echo their voice and stand by the people of Iran in these very crucial times.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

If listeners want to connect with you, what will be the great medium to connect?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Well, if they would like to connect, I am available available on social media on X Face, X Instagram, and LinkedIn with just one second. Paddy that you want to sorry about that. If you could edit edit that up. If people could would like to reach out, I am available on social media on ex, Instagram, and LinkedIn. If you search my name, that should come up. And if you would like to learn more about the movement, you could visit myamrajabi.com. It's myam dash rajabi.com or myamrajabiforchange.com or ncr-iran.org. And if you would like to become active, you could reach out to ironfreedom. They are they have chapters all around the world. So they could put you in contact with local chapters. And we greatly appreciate any help uh and support in these crucial times.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, Zulal. And uh I have to say that you have carried your father's story and thousands of others with extraordinary courage and dignity. So um I mean, the world is better because you choose not to be silent. So yeah, and for everyone who is listening, today you heard things that deserve to stay with you. Speak the names, share the story, and support the organizations on the ground. And remember that the freedom is never worn in silence. It is worn by ordinary and extraordinary act of refusing to look away. With this hope, this is your host Avik, and this is Mind Makes Machine. I'll see you next month. Thank you so much.