Ep 02: " Unapologetically Yourself" with Aparna Shewakramani

We have THE Aparna Shewakramani on the pod! We definitely talk about Indian Matchmaking and how she is depicted as 'unlikable' for having standards and how having standards are not flaws. My conversation with her was absolutely wonderful and she is such a kind person who reads you in the best of ways. I admit I was a little nervous and she totally put me at ease. 

I hope you enjoy our conversation!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:25

I'm so excited that my first guest on Something to Say is the one, the only Aparna Shaywak Remini, who is from who is known from Indian matchmaking season one and two. Um I she's known as like the unlikable one or the one that doesn't like anything. And everyone gave her so much strife, which she's obviously very well aware of. But aside from that, I very much see myself in Aparna. We're both ambitious women. We want to help other women, other people live their best single life without shame or fear, and to take pride in your standards, despite what society is telling you you need to follow. And we're both Capricorn women, according to Western astrology, which is something that we touch upon a little bit. And her book is one that I'm really looking forward to reading. It's titled She's Unlikable and Other Lies That Bring Women Down, which very much aligns also with the book that I'm currently listening to on audiobook, Cynthia Orivo's book, titled Simply More. So Aparna's book about being unlikable and other lies. It's like, what is it that everyone tells us that, you know, you should or should not be this way because it makes things more difficult for you. And I very much have had that conversation with myself, and we we touch upon it in my conversation with her. And Cynthia Riva's book, which is a just a plug, I don't know, free plug, simply more, which is about feeling like you can be too much. And so sometimes I have those feelings. But we Capricorn women, because Cynthia Reva is also a Capricorn, we we clearly have big feelings to to process through, and we find our outlets for that. Abarna is an easy chat. Like she's so easy to chat with, she has a great read on people that actually puts you at ease. And after our chat, we still spent like a good 20 minutes talking about human design, Enneagram, and our cards of destiny. And we just kind of got super nerdy about it, and she was so just so cool. Uh, I am really so grateful for her time and I hope you enjoy my conversation with Afarna. My guest is Afarna Shaywa Kramani. I'm so excited to have her on something to say because she definitely has some things to say to us. We know Aparna from Indian matchmaking on Netflix. Some of us love to criticize her, and some of us knew she had a point. I wonder which side you were on. Afarna, welcome and thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited. Okay, so I have a quote pinned right behind me, and I feel like it embodies so many people, but it says, I am complicated, it's a feature, not a flaw. And it's something that I know I've had to tell myself a lot of times. And knowing as much of your journey as I do, I feel a kind of kinship with you, and that we're like pretty similar. I'm also a Capricorn and also have my particulars. And so I just want to start there that, like, how like what does that quote make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 3:25

You know, it's interesting. We always talk, you know, we you and I have what what you and I have in common is sex in the city. And I was actually talking to someone recently about this, about Carrie and how every woman sees themselves as a Carrie. And when you actually look at how the author wrote her initially in the books, it was on purpose that we had a Charlotte, a Miranda, and a Samantha. And they were not complicated. They were very one-dimensional in so many ways. And then the author said what she did is she took all of the pieces from a woman. So her proper manners etiquette side, her intelligence and her ambition, her fun and joy and promiscuity, and she sectioned them out into those three characters and then put them all back into Carrie because that is Carrie. Every woman says, Oh, I'm a Carrie. Well, it's because every woman is complicated and they're not these one-dimensional Charlotte Miranda Samantha characters. And so it's interesting. It's I don't think it's unusual. I don't think it's a Capricorn thing. I don't think it's an intellect thing. It's an intellect thing. But being complicated means that you're nuanced and it means that you're bringing your whole self to the table, and it means that you're being authentic. And so I I don't, I would never see it as a flaw. I don't even see it as a feature. I think it's as natural as being human to be complicated, especially as we get older and especially as we're learning more about this world and evolving more. You know, we're a lot more complicated in our 30s and our 20s and in our 60s than we were in our 40s, and it's called life.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

And it's I would I like to tell people that I'm like, I'm allowed to change my mind. Like if I decide I want to be different tomorrow from the way that I was today, like I I'm allowed to do that. I have opinions, I have lessons that I've learned that are gonna change like my mind, and I'm gonna be informed about something different that's going to change my mind and make me decide, actually, I'd rather not, or I rather would be this way or that way. And so I think it's only natural. But on to the whole point of this podcast, do you have something to share with us? I'm sure you have something to say. Is there a topic or something that you'd like to discuss today?

SPEAKER_02 5:26

I find myself talking to women a lot about this, but about society's milestones. And I think when people watched me on their screens, what bothered a lot of people, but also empowered a lot of people was that I wasn't really concerned with them. I wasn't just going to pick any partner or match um just because it was the right time for me or because some matchmaker was placing some men in front of me. They were wonderful men. They were just not wonderful matches for me. And I think that I could see that and I could say that. And a lot of people had a problem with that. And I had to think about why, you know, I was like, why is this such an issue with so many people? And it was because they were never given the agency to say no. So I felt like they kind of didn't appreciate it in me, or in fact, maybe resented it in me, or thought, who does she think she is, the audacity of her to say no. And you know, women from all over the world wrote me after the show and DM me and emailed me. I mean, all kinds of messages. I mean, I got tens of thousands of messages from women, not just South Asian women, from Korean women who have this matchmaking process called dosans, from German women who have their own thing. Like everyone has matchmaking, everyone has it in love. Communities are always very interested in finding people for their younger ones. Yeah. But it was a lot of them saying, Wow, how great. How did you become like this? How did you get the confidence to say, I don't like that, I don't want that, and I'm not going to settle for that. And I really thought about it and I write about it in my book, She's Unlikable, in my memoir. But it's that no one ever said no to me. And I didn't realize that was rare because we only know what we know, right? Like my life is only the only life I know. And I was really fortunate. I had a mother that was like, you can do whatever you want. And not in a flippant way, but in a truly like you can do whatever you want. So when I came home and I was like, I want to go on semester at sea, I want to go around the world in a cruise ship. And she's like, Where are you gonna go on this cruise ship? I was like, Venezuela, Irma. Like, she was like, No. And I was like, but yes. And she was like, Okay, yes. And she tells the story when I was little, I didn't like dresses or no, I didn't like pants. And so I would tell people, like, even when they gave me presents, I was like, I don't want your trouser dress. I'm not gonna wear it. I'm not wearing your trouser dress. And she was like, You've been doing it since you were two. Like, you've just been telling us, like, no, yes, no, yes, no. And I think that's also really interesting from the show that a lot of people had a real issue with the things I didn't like. They were like, Oh, she doesn't like beaches.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

She doesn't like Yeah, and it's like they're taking it personally. It's like it's not for you to take personally. Like, it's not, it's not your life, it's not your decision. So, like, why are you so bothered?

SPEAKER_02 7:57

They were so bothered. And I think it's because they're not used to women saying, like, I like this and I don't like this. They want us to be like demor and submissive and like pleasant and people please. And I was like, no, I really don't like beaches. And if I get a day off and I get, you know, a hundred bucks in my pocket, I'm not gonna go to the beach. And so, like, I'm proud to say that. Um, I will tell you also what I like. And what's interesting about editing is I am certain that I said as many things that I do like that I said as that I don't like because I just speak like that in my life. I I mean now I noticed it, I never noticed it before, but I'm like, I like that. I don't like that. I like that, I don't like that. And what the show did was interesting with editing is they cut out all the things I like and made this long list of the things I don't like. And I'm not even gonna get mad about it because I'm like, it's true, I don't like those things. But it's weird when taken out of context of a woman who just tells you what she does and does not like, it starts looking like, oh, she's so picky, oh she's so this, oh, she's so that. Well, no, I have a long list of things I like. They just didn't give them to you. They didn't show you them, they cut them out. And and again, that's fine. That's like called editing, that's called television. Um, I'm making my own documentary now, and I'm learning a lot about editing, and it's a really cool project. And I was noted for that. Yeah, yeah. It's in um final stage development. I think it's gonna be made pretty soon. So what's interesting about it though is that you know, they say if you don't like it, do it yourself. Well, I didn't like it. So my own story, making my own story about me. And um, I'm gonna be on camera again. And I am on camera again. We're already doing like the sizzle reel. And it's really been interesting to like be a creative part of the story that I'm telling about myself. It's been a beautiful experience already. And and I can see that the things that I learned from sitting in front of a camera five years ago, six years ago almost, are the things that are now applying into my life. And I think that's really beautiful to think that you know, maybe someone would have seen that as like a low moment in my life that like, you know, I got kind of screwed by this show. And I'm like, yeah, but I also made something beautiful out of it. And that's um the choices that we have are to make things that are beautiful out of things that maybe didn't start so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

That's how that's how even this adventure for me came around is just from like the struggle of dating and the struggle of trying to figure it out until one fine day I was just like, I don't want it to be a struggle anymore. Why is it a struggle? Is it me? Is it my options? Because I didn't I I feel like before when I first started this whole thing, it was like about how men are trifling and like these dates suck and all this other stuff. And now I'm like, I don't want to be a man hater. I'm not a man hater. Yes, some of them are annoying, you know, and there are all these things, of course. There's two sides to every coin. But then it turned into like, how am I making myself better? What is my best self? What kind of life do I want? It took me casually dating someone who asked me, like, so what are you looking for in a long-term partner? And I listed some things with broad strokes. And he was like, Well, wouldn't you like it if he liked to dance, like if he liked salsa dancing? And I'm like, well, it doesn't have to be that, it could be any type of and I was like, Well, no, it would be nice if he liked salsa dancing. They're like, Why aren't you being more specific? And I told him, Um, I don't know. I think it's because when in in our society, the older that you get, you're told not to be so picky. Don't have so many like hard lines of what you want and don't want in someone because it's just gonna make it that much harder to find someone. And he was not South Asian, and he just was like, that's dumb. Men have men are picky all the time. And like, what so why can't you? And like he just didn't understand. But the way that it was just so like the way that it was so plainly expressed to me, I was like, you know what? You're right. Why am I making myself smaller? Why am I trying to just be so um appeasing and flexible when it in reality, like, no, I would like these two very specific things, and there is no such thing as like nobody is a collection of certain traits. Like, there's a variety of people in this giant world that have a variety of traits, and this person must exist somewhere. Um so I totally feel that.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

And that's I like that I think what's really important in what you said is that I refuse to see it as a struggle anymore. And I have a lot of conversations with people about this because I've always refused to see it as a struggle. And yes, there are times obviously I'm human, I get down and I'm like, why now? Why has it not been me? Why has it not been my chance? But I still don't think it's a struggle. And I think when we start assigning these kinds of terms to it, we're kind of putting that energy and vibration into it. I I saw somewhere someone said, Remember the last amazing thing that happened to you, like the thing that absolutely, like if someone's like, What is a good thing that happened in your life? That morning you woke up and you didn't know that thing was gonna happen. So if you're like looking for a partner, like you know, that morning that you meet that person, you know, you're not gonna even know that morning. It could be today, it could be tomorrow. And so, yes, maybe I'm like a crazy optimist or maybe I'm a romantic, but I believe that even about our careers and the people that we meet. Like I met the director of my documentary because I was talking to people about season two of Indian matchmaking, and someone was supposed to be my date on it. And he was like, Tell me about what you're working on. And I told him about this project, and he set me up with my director. She's a woman, she's my director, and we've been in the director, you know, relationship now for four years. But like wake up that morning thinking, this person that I'm gonna meet tonight, yeah, it's not even that it's him that I'm gonna fall in love with, it's yeah my director that he's gonna introduce me to and change the whole trajectory of potentially my life. And I just want people to remember that that like we don't know, and that it is a beautiful surprise and mystery. And that, like, I don't know, now that I live in that flow and that vibration, it's like it became easier. And like dating's become easier recently. Like, I'm getting these string of really eligible, wonderful men coming by, and they're not right for me, but I'm using them as guideposts. I'm like, look at what the universe keeps bringing me. It's like abundance. Yeah, he's not this person, he's not right for me, he's not ready and intentional the way I am, or he's not um communicating through conflict the way I need him to, but he's a wonderful man, and he's just not for me. And I'm still taking them as guideposts, and they're they're taking they're signaling me somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

And I just feel like I feel that because same, like a couple of years ago, now I dated two people that it was supposed to, it was the full intention was it being casual, but they taught me so much about myself that I really turned, and I also had gotten like a really great job around that time, and everything like I became such an optimist from being such a skeptic about everything and being so like negative and always like living at arm's length for a long, long time. Then all of a sudden there was this shift, and I was like, Okay, so when you believe in yourself, good things happen. If you keep staying positive, it may not happen immediately, but you're you get used to you have to train your brain and you get used to looking for all the good rather than fixating on all the bad, which is something that I'm still to this day, sometimes it's so hard, like old habits die hard. But you mentioned season two, and I wanted to ask the shift between what you were going through in season one to who you became in season two. Did you have like a moment that was that aha moment that like made you just be like, you know what? I'm done. I'm gonna pursue things, I'm gonna look at this whole adventure in a different way.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

I mean, yes, I got a book deal. So I mean, that basically Yeah, I was like, oh, I'll take a one-year sabbatical from La, I'll move to New York City. I never got to do that in my 20s. I've always been like Texas barred. Um I'm gonna just try it. I'm gonna go to the West Village. I don't really know anyone there anymore. All my friends had already left and gotten married from New York. Uh I knew maybe like two or three people in New York at that time. And um, it was right as the vaccines were coming out in 2021, April of 21. So we got vaccinated pretty early in Texas. Most of New York was not even vaccinated when I got there. They still had like they still had 9 p.m. curfews, four people couldn't gather together. It was crazy. You know, I moved there when they were still in the throes of COVID in April of 2021, and I started a whole new life writing this book. And I gave myself a lot of grace that year to really enjoy what it meant to live that way. And I had never lived like that as an adult. I had been working since I was 16, and it was like nice. I just I writing is work, but it's in a different way, and it's on your own time. And I really focused on building friendships and community and taking care of myself. Like I would walk the high line every day, I'd walk thousands of steps every day. Um and I think that it was that grace period I gave myself. And I know we can't all do it. I know it's not possible. I know I was gifted something incredible, but I really do tell people they try to be bored. Like I didn't have a plan except to finish this book. And honestly, no plan really came together for two or three years after that. You know, like the idea of this documentary came up, but like no movements really happened in the past like three, four years. And I was berating myself for that. And then I looked at myself and I was like, but you grew other things in that time being. Like, you know, I speak more now. I didn't even know that public speaking was a thing you could do as a business. Um, you learn different things along the way, but allow for that with with what I call boredom. It's not really boredom, it's space. And a lot of us are just so go, go, go, especially really accomplished women. And we want to go, go, go and finding love. We want to go, go, go and building careers and then switching careers and in moving places and doing all these big things.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

And I'm like, yes, but it's okay to be soft, it's okay to be quiet, it's okay to sit still for a second. It's okay to like like the kids go.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Yeah, like my friend just published her third book, and her first book came out when my first book came out, and I immediately started like beating up on myself. I'm like, look at how she wrote three books, and you're still right now, I'm writing my second book. But I'm like, you're just writing your second, and she finished her third, and I'm like, slow down, Karnell. Like, let's have a chat. You and me, you know, me and me, let's have a chat. Like, I'm on a trajectory than her. My life has looked different the past few years. I haven't had some of the resources or ease that she's had, and people are looking at me and thinking I don't have the resources and ease that she has, and we could play that game forever and ever.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

And comparison is the thief of joy. Like I I really try hard to not compare myself to other people. I'm again, old habits die hard, but I remember at some point being really jealous of someone who married their high school sweetheart and has two kids and this life and the blah blah. And I was like, oh, that was the life that I wanted for me. But then I found out just in conversation, she was like, Yeah, I've no, I was like, Well, you know how Europe is, things start to look alike, or something like I was like talking about my travels. She was like, No, I've never been. And then I just I like was a light bulb moment for me. I was like, oh my god, I'm jealous of her life. And she's like, No, I haven't really been anywhere else. And I was like, I there's a lot to be grateful for in my own lane, and I'll get that other stuff when I'm supposed to. I know you also wasn't it uh an astrologer or someone you talked to that said that like, oh, you're kind of in orbit with someone. It was in season two, and they said that you were like in orbit with someone in the area. Did you actually feel that? Did you feel what they're like what they were trying to say? Do you still feel that way that you might be in orbit with this person that you're supposed to end up with?

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Yes, I do feel I am that way. But it was interesting that that astrologer in season two is my friend. And um, I had a really tough year in in 2023, and you know, it was just it was just mentally not a good place for me. I think um season one and two of the show really caught up to me. I had kind of been in fight or flight, I hadn't really processed a lot of it, and then it all came tumbling down on me, and I was starting to process it in real time. And she looked at my chart in 2024 and was like, you're supposed to meet someone, and I was like, Okay, and she's like, you know, your stars are interesting because it's 50% fate and 50% agency. She's like, I can tell Rapunzel that her stars say that she's supposed to meet someone in 2023, but if she gets locked in a tower, whether it's against her will or not, she's not gonna meet someone. So sometimes we lock ourselves in towers and we don't meet the person or we don't have the career opportunity or we don't make the move to that city that year. But it's because of agency, and agency doesn't always mean that you have a choice. Like we have this thing where it's like agency is like, well, I didn't choose to have a shitty year that year. Well, no, but it happened and I was not in a good place to meet someone in 2023 or 2024, to be honest. And really, it took to last summer, 2025, where I was like, Oh, like I feel good in my body, I feel good in my mind. And the minute I felt that way, guy after guy after guy after guy showed up, and I was like, I don't look that much different, I don't act that much different, but something changed. And it was that I was ready. And it's interesting, like, yeah, I mean, I just think it's interesting that they also can like look at my chart and they're like, this is who you're going to meet. And I take it with a grain of salt because I'm like, I can meet someone completely different. Like, there's also all of this room and this gray space that we're working in. And I do have to say, a lot of the things in the chart have come true. So part of me is just like, watch yourself, girl. Like, you've seen this stuff come true, this crazy stuff true. Um, like it it always said I was gonna be famous when I was 34, and that was the beginning of my fame, and that it was going to just get bigger and bigger even after the age of 40. And it's interesting because I was like, Oh, I back in the day when they told me that I was like 22 or 23, and they're like, Yeah, you won't get married till until after you're famous. And I was like, What do you mean I'm not gonna get married until I'm after 34? That's never gonna happen. And they're like, Oh, it's not gonna happen, just you wait. And I was like, I will show them I will get married in my 20s and I will be happy and I will have all my children by 34. Yeah. And then the show came out when I was 34, and I did not have all my children, and I did not and if I I laughed because it's also like same.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

I also had all those thoughts. And then I also had my chart read and was like, You're not gonna get married until after 35. And I just turned 35 because I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Well, you know, after 34, I thought, oh, that means on my 34th birthday I'll get married. No, it's been four or five years, and it's like it's it's kind of fine now. Like it's kind of just like it it is what it is, and we can, you know, put a little atomic bomb clicker on it and just wait for it to implode. And and it probably won't. We're not gonna fall off the edge of a cliff. Yes, it's disappointing. Yes, I would love, you know, to have my partner already in life, but maybe it is fates to live this life, to see the world, to like go to Venezuela and Burma or Yeah, or to have these kinds of conversations and encourage other women that it's okay you're not alone.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

I have two cousins who got married in their 40s, and they are my inspiration, where they're like, it's worth waiting for. Because even when you meet them later, like they're gonna be so much better than what you probably imagined for yourself. And so, me also meeting like my eldest cousin's like husband, like when I I them when they were dating I met him when they were dating and she asked me I'm like the littlest cousin and she's the oldest one. She asked me my opinion I was like I I was like I'm a little annoyed because I thought you were the coolest and I was like oh I could always grow up to be like her and like be single and cool and live this really cool life. But I was like this guy is so perfect for you. Like he worships the ground that you walk on and you totally deserve that. And I'm just like that is what I have to look forward to whether it happens at 35 or 40 or 45 or whatever. It's worth the wait is what I've been told and I'm and I'm really lucky to have that kind of like that like inspiration and to have that kind of lesson right in front of me in my own life that I I wish to continue to disseminate to everyone else of like I've been told it's worth it. I have people in my life who got married late and they're so glad that they did. So I just have to learn to be patient. And if I can do it you can do it too.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

So learning is that I and a lot of us women and men as we get older we want every person that we vaguely connect with to be it. We want them to be it. And and we don't want them we don't want to let them go even though there's these you know flags red flags that we're seeing and it's interesting as as I've had like a bunch of these guys come in and out recently um sometimes quite quickly I I have to like learn how to let go too and just trust that something else is out there. And that's been really hard for me. And I think a lot of people don't talk about the detachment that you have that you have to have that like they say it's like a marketplace in like a you know in a place that you travel like a night market where you have to be able to away from the product and you really do. You have to say like this is all of the things I need which is you know your the standards or the love or the kind of love you need. And if I can't get it I'm gonna walk away and the person will either say no no come back I'll give it to you and I'll prove it to you and I'll show it to you right or um yeah I can't I can't give that to you. Yeah going to you I'm gonna choose not to give that to you I probably could give it to the right woman but it's not you. And then you you gotta go. You know I've had some men that are just awesome on paper and even in the beginning we have such great connections and I have to say to myself like you have to be able to walk away from this Parna. You have to because you have to believe that something's on the other side of it and that something might not come tomorrow by the way it might come in two years and that might be really scary.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

But I think that there's some detachment that we have to learn and it gets harder and harder as you get older to implement and that is also something that I find gets criticized as well of that like why do you what do you mean you have to walk away just because there's a world of so many choices it doesn't mean you have to walk away from this you have to put in the effort and make it work and that's what partnership is and all this all this other stuff. And I'm like but at what point is that just too much like that's not it doesn't have to be that hard and when I see other people or hear other people in these symbiotic relationships where it's like they're not necessarily the same exact person or they don't have the same but whatever but it works out and and it's easier for it to work out. And like not everything has to be just because it works on paper or just because the initial was great like doesn't mean that it has to be the end all be all there are going to be things in between that are just not going to work out and end up being the thing that you don't want but I keep hearing these things of like no you have like relationships are work and you have to work at it and I was like I never said that they're not it's just that there has to be what to right the things that I'm talking about that I'm walking away from are like they don't want to get married in the next five years.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

I can't change or that or or when we when we get in disagreements they're not they're not able to eat through conflict. And in fact we have very different conflict resolution styles and I'm not sure that without a lot of therapy on maybe both our parts that we would be able to fix this. Or yeah one guy didn't like my career path and he's like it's really gonna bother me that you're gonna have this kind of career you know potentially for the rest of your life or I'm not gonna be able to change that um just to make you more comfortable. So these are the things I'm saying walk away from not like I don't like something like where they live in what city they live in you know like that kind of thing. Yes it's but these are like very fundamental things that I'm okay saying like I really you know I also I can't be loved like that. I can't be loved in in in a conflict setting like that. How you're loved in a conflict setting is way more important than how you're loved in a happy setting.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yes. And um yeah understanding and yeah so people are like oh you're or you have standards.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah or or you go live with that person that doesn't support your career see how that feels it's not gonna be great for the next 20 or 30 years. Like you go live with the person that you know doesn't want to talk about things when they're upset and just says no let's not talk about it and just pretend it didn't happen. Like okay that's not going to work for the next 20 years. So yeah I don't know where I'm learning a lot about relationships. Um we all do like when another person comes up in front of us that is what a relationship teaches us. It's it's a conflict uh a trigger for our most wounded parts and and that person's triggering it over and over and over again and and who are we and who are they when that happens to us and as we get older coming up against people with a whole lot more triggers and I have a whole lot more triggers. I'm not blameless in this at all.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

And so yeah I think there's have you always been this shore of a person of like what you want in a partner I mean I'm sure like it's it's changed like what you want in a partner has changed with your experiences. But have you always been this kind of person that's like you know like yes no like yes I like this no I don't like this yes this works no it doesn't have you always been that kind of person or did you like I think I mean I've used love twice in my life like mad crazy truly deeply madly love and both times I knew like the minute I met them.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

And so I'm not saying that this time the third time I'm gonna know uh hopefully it's my last time by the way also that I'm gonna definitely know. Um in fact some of the men I'm meeting now I'm like oh I'm not sure and that's okay like I don't need to know but nowadays I'm also like my eyes are wide open to things that I need like the ways I need to be loved I'm very like aware of especially in the beginning you know like I am avoidant so I do need someone who's more consistent and kind and when I like kind of back off they don't allow it. Like that's just what I need. Like I don't need a man who's also avoidant and we're both just like avoiding each other all the time. Yeah yeah and so you know it's it's interesting to start like being able to pinpoint like you know hey I and I told this guy that I was speaking to recently I was like I'm not very good in the beginning. I like don't really trust people off the bat and I'm panicking right now and he's like you know this is kind of crazy that I like you so much too but I'm not panicking. And I was like great so you can be the non-loved yeah that's a lovely thing to hear.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

I know I once was talking to a guy this was years ago but I had a moment where I just I I felt a little crazy because I was like double triple texting him and it wasn't it was before that was like deemed as a bad thing but I was like hey I'm nerfing then I was like oh my gosh I'm bothering you so much and then he finally came back and he was like hey I was busy not by my phone I'm so sorry and he was like you're not crazy you're adorable and I was like that's really nice to hear that's really nice to hear that someone just likes you for you and if it was supposed to work out you know it would have worked out but for whatever reason it didn't end but those these little things are what like taught me about myself of like you can just fully be yourself and there will be somebody out there that loves you for all the perks that you have and all the little things that you do. After all the trying and the the show and the scrutiny and all that other stuff what makes you feel like your most authentic self?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Like I mean I never compromised that so it's not like I just kept living my life I actually don't know any other way to live and I wish I was more I don't know manipulative or quicker or I wish I might as bad as I thought I think that I wish that I sometimes kept my thoughts to myself or like didn't say straight up to a guy like I'm having a panic attack right now because you're coming on really strong like yeah I wish I could just keep that in my head. And so for me I'm just um proud of the ways that I show up in this world and every day I ask myself like did I make the world a little bit better today and then that's how I know I'm being my authentic self. So like you know I volunteer when I'm in Texas I volunteered a dog shelter. So today I spend an hour with the dog and so when I go to bed tonight I'm gonna be like did I make someone's life better today yeah that dog sitting in that kennel. You know, did I listen to my friend who was having a really hard time when really I wanted to be working but she needed that 30 minutes of me. Did I you know did I take a walk in in nature and pick up some trash along the way like do we like this place a little better each night I think it's all the gratitude piling.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Like I have a reminder on my calendar every night at around 10 p.m it's like some like what good what's a good thing that happened today? Like a good like say a good thing about today and I try to say it out loud as like a way to hear it for myself that like you know like I met and talked with you today like that's a that's a great thing that happened to me today. Like if I hung out with some friends like I hung out with some friends. If it's I ate a great meal I'm like I ate a great meal today.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Those little things gratitude piles I challenge you to change that into the next step which I think is like the quote that says instead of making a list of all the things I want in life I'm gonna make a list of all the ways I serve. And that's the difference. I'm not doing gratitude I'm doing service and service is gratitude in some ways it's saying I have enough in me I have enough abundance to give and to serve and that could be serving my parent by calling them and checking in that could be serving a dog at the shelter it could be serving my neighborhood by cleaning it up and so yes I also had a great meal. Yes but that doesn't sink in the same way and it doesn't take from you the same way that service does and so I love that quote think of all the ways that you can serve instead of all the things that you want or desire or feel good about in this world. And it's hard. It's hard every day you know it's called being a villager and a lot of people want to be a villager you know they don't want loneliness in this world but you gotta give a lot to be a villager.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

There's I can't for whatever reason I'm not able to remember his name right now but there is this guy on a podcast that I was listening to and the host kept asking like okay but like for someone's career like what a what what are the what's like the one liner you can give them that's gonna be like if if nothing else at least this will make you happy and this person was like service be in service to others because that fulfills a piece of our soul that like sometimes we don't realize we need fulfilled. So it's helping someone else doing things for other people it's going to sometimes help you realize what you do need what you do want and it can really come full circle. So I appreciate that challenge and I'm definitely gonna start thinking about things in that way especially the the way that you just like kind of pitched it to me. And like yeah that that is one step above of just simply gratitude. I know there was a point in time like my therapist was also like start noting it down have a gratitude journal all that stuff but like I think we're I I am a little bit beyond that now.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

It's the next step to the surface it's just like you saying like what made me feel good today. What about what did I do to give good in this world today? I don't know. I I just think as I get older I'm more concerned with that and that gives me peace at night more than the good thing that happened to me that day. And I do want to have gratitude for all the goodness that happens to me. I mean that's but I feel like that's baseline and then what? And you know we have really hard days sometimes your days are really long and they're packed and you you are working so hard and you're there's still time. There's still time to serve someone or something. And I just I think if we all did that we would be much kinder people much more empathetic people much more um giving of ourselves and we'll probably receive a lot more. I mean I've gotten the most I've ever gotten in life in the past few years when I've implemented this and I'm not doing it to get more but when you give more you get more it's crazy isn't it um so yeah I'm feeling myself I feel like it's a very lucky and that's that is something I give it advice to people about that if you do that things will change and a lot of people come back to me and they're like oh my God you're right you're right. And at first I had to like clock myself and be like did I serve anything or anyone today and then it became so natural. And I was like yeah it becomes natural becomes the way that you live I don't think about it every day. I'm not like today did I help someone or something. In fact every day I I help multiple people and multiple things because it's now become a a a way of training myself.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yes you your brain starts to just think in that that that format as long as you train it. Yeah. I love that. Final question for you as a fellow Sex in the city lover do you think do you see yourself as any particular character? I know at the top we talked about Carrie Braddraw being kind of the uh having all the traits of all the characters kind of all rolled into one but do you see yourself as any particular character or did you used to see yourself as any particular character? Because I know I've seen myself as all of them.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

I think I've seen myself as all of them I definitely thought I was a Charlotte when I was growing up I was a super people pleaser which is kind of ironic now. But you know I was I had all the right friends I wore all the right clothes I went to all the right parties and I loved my friends don't get me wrong it's not like I was fake friends with them or anything but I look back on it now and I'm like oh like you were very like uh conforming to what was around you yeah and then as I get older I'm not anymore but Carrie and I also have a lot in common. I I had a big in my life too for many years for decades. I don't know. And then I also am a writer and I think about the world the way that she does and I also have like this whimsical part of the way that I dress and enjoy the clothes that I wear. And so I do your outfits. Thanks. I mean yeah I don't think I'm as whimsical as I want to be nowadays because I feel like a lot more eyes are on me. But like my mom used to laugh at me in college and stuff. She'd be like you buy the most ridiculous clothes and then you wear them. She used to call them cupcake outfits. Oh like Carrie does wear cupcake outfits you know she would literally wear a cupcake. Yeah and I used to be like that more now I'm like oh I'm older like I'm more mature and more elegant and more chic. But like I always was kind of the girl who kind of loved those kinds of women they call it dopamine dressing right like dressing just from the I just love what I wear but yeah so I think I have that writer thing I have the yearning with you know that person many years and I have um she looked at the world in a way that I look at the world too in in kind of a she sees it almost like in this different sense like almost as an outsider. And I I find that I relate to that a lot. I didn't realize it at the time that I was watching the show but I am a storyteller. And when I got to have space in the world to really consider what I wanted to do people are like how how did you write a memoir now you're writing fiction and you have a documentary and I'm like you realize they're different mediums but they're all storytelling and I don't have someone to look up to I don't have someone that can tell me how to write fiction, nonfiction and make a documentary. There's no one who can mentor me through that we were talking about this off camera. Yes and and I'm building my own path and it's scary some days and I'm pretty sure I'm doing the wrong thing most days and I just keep going. Yeah and I'm gonna be there but you're gonna have a story out of that as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Somebody once said this to me and I continue to repeat it is like nobody's TED talk is I wanted this and everything worked out. Your TED talk is always gonna be full of trials and tribulations and that is the inspiring message is that I figured it out I worked through it I fell down I got back up I had to fight society's expectations and all these other things it's it the inspiration comes from the struggle and as someone who has also had my own fair share of struggles I'm like I finally got to a point where I'm also able to see that.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

So have you heard of human yes I have okay it's interesting human design I'm um this one of my profile numbers is something called the heretic and it's about a person that comes in and says things to the world before they're ready to hear it. And it's interesting because I if I look at Indian matchmaking I wasn't saying anything I thought was revolutionary at all. And in fact the world wasn't really like half the world I mean I would say I'm polarizing I was polarizing. But now five years later a lot of people come up to me and they're like yeah we thought about it and it's like why did we ever think that was bad what you were doing blah blah blah. It's like the world almost had to catch up to the fact that it's not that bad to see a woman in her 30s just be like that's not what I want in my partner. And it's been interesting because you know this is my daily life I still have people come up to me daily and they don't really remember much but they're like I don't know why we all had a problem with you if if they already love me. A lot of them love me off the bat but a lot of them are like why were people so mad at you? Didn't you just not want those men like and I'm like yeah it was not that big of a deal and so who knows maybe I'm supposed to be the heretic in my life and maybe that's something I can embrace instead of fearing and maybe we can all embrace the things in us that maybe we would have feared 10 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah I absolutely feel that and I'm in thorough agreement with you. Thank you so much Abarna for all of this your wisdom your insights and just your time and sharing it with me. I'm so glad I met you and we chatted and talking about like when I woke up that day and I decided to go to that event I did not think I was going to meet you and I did not think you'd be here chatting with me on my podcast today. So so grateful for that day so grateful for you to be here. Thank you so so much.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Yes and thank you for having me of course