Kempston Calling! With David Simms

This episodes guest is David Simms - a ‘proper’ Bedfordian and more specifically, Kempstonian with a great knowledge of its history, pub culture plus local ghost stories…You can follow David on Facebook at Kempston Ghost Walks

This episode includes the potentially positive effects of pubs with the impending Universal Park project nearby plus cat meat sandwiches, a drunken coven of witches and so much more…

Links:

Facebook: The Kempston Ghost Walk

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Hello, I'm Lloyd, and welcome to the Pubs of the Shire, episode two. My next guest is David Sims, a proper Bedfordian, and more specifically, Kempstonian, with a great knowledge of Kempston history, pub culture, plus local ghost stories. Kempston has a lot of history with Saxon and Roman links, plus many old characters in the twentieth century. It was once the largest village in England, but became a town since the new town was built in the nineteenth century. We'll be focusing on the older part of the village, which has had many pubs in the past. This episode includes cat meat sandwiches, a drunken coven of witches, and so much more. Okay. We're at the old King William pub, in the old part of Kempston, I believe. The old village, wasn't it, at one point? Yeah, so I'm here with Kempston born and bred. Yep. David Sims, local historian and ghostwalk host, who'll be talking about lost pubs and um live pubs as well of Kempston and some of the local characters. Tell us a little bit about yourself or see you and great to see you doing this work with the dead pubs, you know, keeping the dead pubs alive. Yeah, so um yeah, Kempston born and bred. Um I like the local history, um, always been interested in history. So uh when it comes to Kempston, I'm part of the history now, so yeah. So it's to think about the old Kempston as it was. I mean, right now we're in the the King William the Fourth. Yes, the King William the Fourth uh licensed as a pub first in 1829, so and it's named after a 19th century king. So we have to ask, well, why is that? Well the the answer is it was never a pub, it was farmhouse. Right. So we're actually in one of two uh cottages of the farm, so um yeah, so it was two buildings at one time, and you could still see where the two buildings were, right? And uh yeah, so um it was uh it was a farmhouse, and um, but then in uh 1829 it was licensed, and that was the time of King William IV, hence the name. Yeah, because it's it's very so basically the building's older than the pub. Yes, it is, very much so, yeah. So it uh it can now lay claim to the oldest pub in Kempston at long last because the yeah that that was held by the half moon that time. Okay, because there have been various half moons on that site, and in fact the half moon, what is the building still sits on a medieval footing. Right. So, you know, because it was a medieval pub originally. Yeah, so it still sits on a stone base, exactly. Wow and that's still in all the old photographs and all the old paintings of the original half moon, so yeah. So it was rebuilt once or twice, wasn't it? It was, yeah, it was burnt to the ground. Um and this actually this pub was severely damaged in what they call the Great Fire against 9001, yeah. So the the big stories about that, you know, where the uh where the stu the old uh steaming um yeah steam-powered fire engine had to rush off to the pub and put the fire up. Well done the the hose in the river kind of thing and oh yeah, pump it up kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I suppose if you you had a fire near the river, you're in uh slightly more luck, I suppose. Yeah. I've heard about that before. There's a the old oil oak in um Carlton that had a fire and had to pump it up from the river. That was probably yeah, 19th century as well. But so what's do you know what's happening? The half moon? Is it just sitting there? It's yeah, there's various rumours about the half moon. Alright. I mean, uh we can talk about the half moon later onward if you want, about you know, yeah, about what it means to me, you know, because I remember it in its heyday, you know. Yeah, you you're if you think about what's happening to it right now, we we know it it's a dead pub right now, quite simple. All the windows are blacked out, things like that. Well, the you know the bottom windows. What it's being used for at the moment actually is just being used as as um accommodation for people who work for Brewhouse. Right. Um yeah, yeah. There is some kind of rumour that you know that a Wells pubs might might open it again because of a certain thing that's happening in Bedfordshire. Ah okay, so that's promising. Because that's that's completely that the Universal Studios that's sort of changed the script a bit because a lot of these pubs that have got a lot of problems and shut in or shut, yeah, there's potential now, isn't there? Especially if they shoot all an accommodation into it. That's good for us as pub punters, you know. Yeah, exactly. I mean that uh the half moon, um there is some whisper that you know it'll it'll open again that'll do it up and open it. But um whisper. Yeah, yeah. Well I'm always optimistic, you know, even if it's just a rumour, but I th I just assumed it'd just well, it'd get to the point where it gets knocked down and becomes private, you know, house or whatever. But it was a fabulous pup in its day. Yeah. It was an incredible pup in its day, yeah. Because I was I was local to here to the half moon, and I'm a soft spot for it, but that was like 10-20 years ago. Yeah, yeah. So what's your sort of favourite beer or drinking? Oh, depends where, you know, local beer or whatever. Yeah. I used to like the old um Banks and Taylor, you know, the local Shefford brewery. I used to I think that beer was great. Yeah, yeah. That was a good one. Yeah. I mean I've had some good ones on Aldi as well. Yeah. Yeah, but um, local wise, yeah, that was Shefford, wasn't it? Oh it was Shefford, yeah. Yeah. But you always you you couldn't resist the pints over what's the name as well, over Green End and um yeah, Green End and um sorry, West End. Yeah. So what you've got over there, you've got the shoulder and mutton, yes, uh at Green End, and then you've got the the three horseshoes at at um West End. Um they were owned by brothers actually, uh during the eighties and nineties, 70s, 80s, 90s. Okay. So uh then he just had the three horseshoes. Um incidentally on his uh on his um tombstone in Kempster Cemetery's got three horseshoes. Oh dear. So people won't know what the connection is. I'll have a look at that. But that's what that's about, yeah. And then um you got his brother, Jim Jash up at the shoulder. Right. But the thing was that you know, the way the beer was presented, yeah, and particularly over the three horseshoe, because it came straight out of the barrel. Yeah. And on the summer's day, you couldn't ride you you'd you'd want to ride past it, but you couldn't ride past it because you had to stop and you had to go in because the smell of the beer on the summer's day was absolutely something you don't get anymore. So that yeah, that's unique, yeah. Pretty sure you had uh I think it was Green King up at uh up at the shoulder, and then it was Wales over to your shoes. Yeah, and they're both gone now, of course. Yeah, just houses now, aren't they? Yeah, they are, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of pubs in Shefford, actually, I think. Quite a lot there. Yeah, yeah. You got favourite bar snack or pub meal, you know, whether it's uh a memorable bar snack was um backing in the old um shoulder and button once again. Now, if you went in the shoulder and button, Jim Chessabad on the uh near to the bar, he had this kind of old what was what would have been an electric sort of like um pastry heater. Oh but it I think it had some hot snacks written on it, although he was never plugged in because it never didn't contain hot snacks anymore. What it contained were these pots of what he'd made himself, you know, so he made his seat of food and things like but but he'd made some horseradish sauce. Ah okay, so quite hot. Uh well, you wouldn't believe. So I like horseradish sauce, I like a little dab of the old white stuff at Christmas, you know, the old creamed horseradish, lovely lovely. Yeah, not everybody's taste, but no, I like it. You take home the horseradish sauce then. And I bought one once, obviously. And this was literally horseradish just sitting in vinegar and picking it, and it was just like uh it was like fire, yeah. You know, making fire in your mouth. Brilliant, yeah. So that was one of the specialities. Yeah, about snacks or something. Yeah, yeah. Uh the next question is any any local specifically probably Kempston anecdotes or tales uh protect the name. Thousands. I'll always go away after chatting with you, and I'll think to myself, oh why don't I move up that one? What do I think of that one? There's hundreds, aren't there? Yeah. But I'll have to really tell you about the days of playing in the quiz league. Right. Okay, so playing in the the Green King Quiz League for over ten years and the interesting places we went and what happened in these interesting places. Yeah. One of them's still going, one of these pubs is still going, so I shan't name it. No, no. But you'd walk in there, so the first time you walked in this particular pub, of course, in a in if in normal circumstances, yeah, you play in the pub quiz league, yeah, and yeah, you're gonna go into a quiet room, and then there'd be tables set out, and one team of you one side, the other team. You've got a question master in the middle. Yeah. Well, this was when we walked into this pub, which is still in Bedford High Street to this day. We walked in there and we were led upstairs into the landlord's bedroom. Right. Yeah, and so and so there was their team of four, our team of four, and one team sat on one bed, and the other team sat on the other bed. Nice and comfy, yeah. Yeah, and it was comfy because you're very close together on a bed, you know. And um yeah, and then you've got the question master in the middle, and then there was another pub right where we just quit which is um another one in Bedford, but this one this one's this one is a dead pub now, and it will never be open again. But anyway, but um, we were in this pub and they they they found out that um that you're always the hosting pub always provides a snack or a nice snack or meal. Yeah. So we used to go and have some lovely things, you know, sometimes. Some of the some of the restaurant pubs used to put out some lovely chips and this and that thing, whatever. Yeah, but um but on this particular they um were a bit surprised about this because they you know they hadn't been drenned up because it was the first time in the league. Yeah, they didn't realise. So they had to put something together. So what they put together was they put together these kind of these white bread sandwiches, yeah, and um which were very, very like squashed together anyway, in triangles and looked terrible, didn't look very appetizing. No, and then when you took the yeah, I remember taking the top layer of bread off, and in in the sandwich was little chunks of brown meat with jelly around the brown meat. Oh, and yeah, and this was obviously cat food. Did anyone eat him? No, no, no, no, no. He must have stank. Oh my honestly. Oh shocking. Oh no. What a trick. Uh so it wasn't sandwich paste or anything like that, no, no, no, it was chunky product. It was pepper products, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The next question is Have they either ever seen a ghost in a pub or know any stories of ghosts in parts? No. No, it was the the answer to that is absolutely not. Um you know, and somebody um somebody recently uh messaged my own site and about their you know, ghosts to Kempston and asked about the Griffin because when they ran the Griffin, yeah, they'd seen things, uh people standing at the end of the bed and things like that. But I knew Pete Cleaver for a lot of years and lived there, and I also knew Ian Taylor after that, Scotch guy, um, and Liz who had it after Pete, and they had it for a good ten years. Yeah, and um nothing ever sort of like came of that, um, never heard any stories, and uh nothing down the half moon from Roger. And here, yes, there's been talk about um things that have happened here, yeah. Uh nothing seen, although things have been moved and things and people have heard noises and stuff like that, but nothing in the way of um you know, so not actually sort of like presentations inside the pub, no, as such. So no. Yeah, I suppose being an atmospheric old building it'll always be um I don't know, maybe it's down to people's imaginations or I suppose if you're staff and it's quiet at night and it there's always um something anti peripheral, I suppose, you know. Well yeah, possibly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, over the checkers at Wootton, you know, they they're supposed to be somebody in the tat room in in the cellar over there. Oh right. You know, um in the beer room, but um but once again, you know, I've never you know um I've only heard that what story once, and so my my family had it at one time. Oh really? Yeah, and um well because that was a very old building, wasn't it? It was, yeah, it was um well just like this one, I mean in the 17th century, you know, grade two listed. Similar period. Exactly. That one's rising, by the way. It it will. It will rise as well. I mean it's it's not obviously the lovely building's gone, but it's good that it will be resurrected. It'd be nice to think it could have the essence of the other building. I mean uh they'll probably make it bigger if that's I think if they're gonna you're absolutely right, if they're gonna rebuild that then they'll have uh I I would imagine they'll have accommodation in mind there as well because of what's going on. They've got plenty of room there, yeah, and it's set on a lovely thing, you know. I've used it at various times over the decades, you know, up until the the till when it was closed, actually. And um, so I knew the chap that was in there at the time. Yeah, and I would have to say, an old-fashioned landlord with an incredible personality, and that's what makes pubs a lot of the times in the old days. So there was a guy who an absolutely fabulous magician in the kitchen, you know, uh food, creating food and things like that. So good host, yeah. Yeah, an absolutely amazing host, wouldn't let you out the door, you know, you'd have your three pints or whatever, yeah, and then you'd always have to get you know, just serve and forth and say that's on me. And you don't get that. No, so they can't give away beer, but that's how he was. So it's it's very much like going back in time, so he's worth dimension. That's quite special, especially in that kind of um in that setting. Yeah, there's a lot of things. Yeah, yeah, he was he was a guy that loved to uh company, loved company, and loved people being in there, and he he would um he would certainly be in the centre of anything that went on down there, yeah. So good. That's what you want, yeah. So have you got uh a favourite live pub in Kempston at the moment? Live pub? Yeah, yeah. Which one of the pubs you is your favourite, do you think, or you've got more than one or no? I I do know now um the way the pubs have gone in Kempston now. I don't use this I use this one, this is quite local now, yeah, as much as anything. I lament the half moon, I really do, yeah. I lament that one. Yeah, you know, uh I know they've been trying to do great things, and I know the Duke is resurrected, and there's a lot of a lot of hard work going into the Duke at the moment. In fact, they had a lot of band there, like the top bands in the the area a couple of weeks ago, and that was a heavy night, and a big night. So good luck to the Duke and and also Mulberry, I heard the Mulberry's doing fantastic work, you know. I've not been in there, but it seems to have a lot of a bit of a community feel about it. Very much so, and also it's you know, um the Caribbean element, I understand, and a lot of what's that Caribbean themed food and try the thing. That's good, it's gotten really popular there. So well, good luck to the to the Mulberry. Yeah, and uh definitely and maybe the uh the Smiths still sitting in there, still going, yeah, still sitting there in the um back street corner Victorian pub, isn't it? Well yeah, Edwardian, very much like the Griffin of course. Yes, before they extended it, so it's a corner pub with a front door, you know, because the Griffin's originally their front door was actually on the on the corner of the building itself, you know, that got moved a long time ago. Remember a photograph on the Griffin of the um of the door, yeah. Um don't I yeah don't know what happened to that. I think that photograph probably went to Spain with Pete Cleaver. Oh, because he had it, yeah, and I've never seen a copy of it since, but it was a lot. I always remember there was a lady Harry holding a cat outside this door, you know, and it was very different then because you would say the door wasn't where it is now, it was on the you know, right in front of the front. That makes sense, yeah. And then there's the Royal Oak, isn't there? Royal Oak, absolutely. It used to be a chap from New Zealand run it. Yeah, that was Larry. Larry, yeah. A while ago, wasn't it? Yeah, of course, yeah, Larry, isn't it? That's the last time I went in there. Oh well, wow. Yeah, I know. Yeah, Larry was um I can't remember his name, wife's name, possibly Liz, but I'm not gonna shoot at that. No, maybe not, but uh yeah, but Larry was very, very popular over there. Once again, old fashioned landlord, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um yeah. That's still guide, isn't it? Obviously. It is, very much so, you know. I've got a pass on a Friday night, and a few people in there playing pool and whatever, you know. That's good, yeah. It's all good to see because I said there's only seven pubs that you know still surviving in Kempston, yeah in one form or another. Less than it was, but at least it's still a respectable amount. Well, seven, you know, seventeen gone. Right, okay. Seventeen gone. You ought to run us through some of those. Okay, thank you. Well, there was the Gardener's Arms, which became the bleak hall pet. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. My dad used to change in there for the what's there? We're on the back of it, actually, for the when he played for Caps and Rovers. Oh yeah, the change. And then there was the Three Fishes, just across the road from close to here, isn't it? Yeah, very close to where we are in the King William now. Then Half Moon itself. Yeah. Um, that's worth a special mention. We'll talk about it. Okay. Yeah, shoulder mutton we talked about over Green End. Then there was the Lego Mutton just round the corner from that, which is uh in old photographs as well. Then the three horseshoes, Deddy Jess that's above, at the bottom of Stagston Hill at Kempson West End, the Wellington, of course, which is now a church. Remember that? And then the Black Horse. Now the Black Horse was in Bunyan Road at the bottom, close to where the garage is now at the bottom of Bunyan Road. Right. Then there was the halfway beer house, which is in oh well, um, halfway down the Wogan Road, actually. Okay. The boots was at the bottom of um well, the boot was at the bottom of Bunyan Road, um, next door almost to Upend School. Actually, no, between Upend School and the um sorry, and and Thurston's uh depot. Right, yeah, yeah. And that had a big field at the back of it as well, which would be a show field um where people lived in caravans and things like that. And then there was the Bell. So the Bell bear house is very close to where we are now, down Water Lane. Yeah. Uh Fox and Hounds, of course. Oh yeah, uh the Fox and Owl's number one, yeah, which was the old Fox and Hounds in the High Street, and then Fox and House number two built in the 70s. Yeah, popular pub, um but um you know eventually was demolished. Yeah, um, and uh flats built on that one. Yeah, Bedford Arms was on the corner of Sainsbury's between uh between Bunyan Road and um and yeah and Bedford Road. And in fact, that you know that was a pub, it was it was on kind of two levels, and the pub was on one level, and then you've got a sort of like a you've got a little um roof garden that was on down on the bottom, lower level. Yeah, um, yeah, but I remember that you remember it, yeah. Yeah, very much so. It had uh it had big, you know, what you used to get in the 70s, big bold fairy lights, not fairy lights, but coloured lights, yes, you know, huge bulbs outside. Yeah, okay. So it had that uh that was a popular haunt for I don't know the local characters actually, but we can talk about local characters like that. But and then uh the brickmakers at uh Kempston um that burnt down. So it's a bit further out, wasn't it? It was that was Kemp, what they call Kempston Hardwick, actually. Yeah, it's about the back end of Kempston Hardwick, and that burnt down, yeah. And then um there's the Quart Park, that's another pub in Roburn Road. Uh the chimney corner, of course, at Kempston um Hardwick. Yeah, so that they're all the 17 pubs that have gone. So the the chimney corner that still exists as a building, doesn't it? It kind of does. Uh it what it is, you're absolutely right. What it is is uh a wedding venue. That's it. So it's been turned into a wedding venue. Um how the how that would be affected. I guess the people who own that have got some you know might have uh plans because of course it's sitting on the edge of um yeah, right on the edge of the universal. It's all become lucrative all of a sudden, as it's all this, yeah. So yeah, well brew out challenging over at uh Clapham Road, but the blue point of building a you know hotel on the side of there, apparently. Ah well, so that makes sense, and I guess there's a bit bobster spare land around there, isn't it? So yeah. So yeah, we'll talk a bit more about the half moon, shall we? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, because I I know that's um that yeah, yeah, I think the half moon deserves a special mention because um what I remember is um that Charlie Wells used to run a competition amongst their pubs, they probably still do, I don't know. Right, but it was basically for community pub, so which pub could yeah prove that you know get and get the the top award, if you like, for proving that you know it could raise money for charity and that it was a real community pub. Yeah. So one year, it was about 2003, right? Roger McGloy and Nikki McGloy that had the pub at the time. I remember then, yeah. Yeah, um, yeah, very much so. Um well we all went to work on sort of like providing the evidence, if you like, and it ended up in a red file that we put together and that was presented to Charlie Wells and said this is what the pub does. Well, the things that that pub was doing at the time, I mean, you would not believe, I mean, all kinds of things were going on down there to raise money for charity particularly, but you know, there was there was a there was a golf society that mate met sort of like four or five times a year, and that was the Half Moon Golf Society. There was a there was a netball team, for giving us sake, there was a quiz team, a quiz every Sunday evening down there as well. There was you know. There was all sorts of things going on down there. There was there were at the time there were either three or maybe four Northampton Skittles teams, you know. So there were more skipwards teams at that point. Northampton skipped them. And they had the annual bonfires. Well remember that. Well, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right, no worries. Yeah, that was a brilliant thing, and that was free. Yeah. So that really pulled people in, and that's what people remember. I used to build the guy for that. My dear mate Rob used to organise the firework display, and then Roger would be in charge of the bonfire. I don't know if you'd get away with it now, to be quite honest, because you know there'd be too many controls on it, but you've got some sensible people there, you know, making sure that the kids were safe and things like that. They were inside the pub, they were doing hot dogs and burgers and things like that, you know, to raise money. But every penny that they made on that didn't go behind the bar, it went on the it went to the poppy appeal. That's really true. Yeah, it went to Warbick's Legion, you know. So but it was a fabulous event, you know, incredible event. So many hundreds of people used to go down there and pack the car park where the people used to stand and watch, and then over on the pub gardens was where it all happened, the fireworks and stuff like that, you know. Yeah, it's well remembered. I mean it's one thing to have the fireworks, but I think it's quite nice having the bonfire as well. It's a bit more sort of old-fashioned, isn't it? You know, yeah, so you build some guy and that was it. Roger looked I think there was a bit of a trouble one year actually, where they had to call the fire brigade, you know. Oh gosh, yeah. And Roger, you know, sort of like sweet talk the fire brigade or whatever. And I'm pretty sure it happened. Yeah, but um, but I'm not gonna take any credit for that. That was a fabulous thing, Roger and Rob. And Pete Hull as well. Pete Hull used to help Rob with the fireworks, so yeah, yeah. But there was you know, loads of things, yeah, you know, and dance teams, of course, there were dance teams down there, yeah. But you know, all pubs are dance teams, but you know, and another thing they used to do was the um the annual cycle treasure hunt around the pubs. Uh-huh. So they used to do this cycle treasure hunt where they you know um people used to turn up every year and they'd go and have a cycle, you know, the papers and the clues, and they'd go around pubs like they'd try to go over you know the cross keys and then the checkers, and you know, um and and yeah, and sometimes the royal oak, and sometimes they would come to this one, you know, King William. Plenty of options, yeah. Oh gosh, yeah. I suppose that's an equivalent of the old tram races around the places. I'm glad you mentioned that because thing, aren't I? Well, I was gonna mention that, but you no, absolutely no, great that you brought it up, Lord. I'll tell you why, because in Kempston there was one. Right. And this was in the 70s and 80s, and I've got photographs somewhere in my loft of this. Yeah. But you're talking about, you know, the pubs being inhabited at the time of some guys who could handle themselves, you know, you know, look like they've been for a few mangles and stuff like that. And I don't mean to be in some way, no, just you know, guys who met the pub, you know, they can have but these these guys every year would dress them up in drag. Burley bikes, yeah. Yeah, burly black exactly burly blokes with lipstick, all those smudged all over their face and stuff, and then the other one would be dressed as a baby with a frelly hat and stuff like that, being pushed around. And of course it was good. Yeah, so what we got going on there, it in a sense it was a pub call where they could raise money, because it was a pub call, yeah. They went to all the pubs, yeah, raised money in buckets and things like that. Got the money and yeah, and probably got sponsored as well or whatever, but it was definitely a sponsored event, you know, or a charity event, you know, so there's a lot of money. I think a lot of those sort of things, I don't know, fizzle out for different reasons, but I don't know, it's what health and safety and things like that. Oh gosh. Barrel rolling is the bat used people used to roll barrels between pubs and things as well, didn't they? Yeah, they did. They can't now because you're absolutely right. Which I suppose there's reasons and but yeah, it's just different, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So look back on though, innit? It's probably how nice it happened, yeah. Yeah, and then yeah, moving on to the characters. My my wife, um well she was probably she was born in a house in Kempston, yeah. Um but she was uh she was asking me to ask you about the White Witch of Kempston. Was there a no off, or was it just a white witch of Kempston? That's right. Her name was famously, her name was Marion Unsworth. Right. Um but she eventually married an another chap called Keith Foster. Okay, and Keith was quite a character around Kempston. He was seeing his mobility scooter, which had got loads of mirrors on, and he always had blue ovals on. Yeah, quite recognisable. Yeah, he was, he'd buy a um amputee actually, an arm and a leg. And um, so he'd have a hat with a big feather in it, you know, and a big white beard. Wow. You know, and he was it was always a character. You could never get, you know, you could never go, you know, keep Keep would see you, and then you'd you know, he'd shout, he'd got a big loud voice, you know, and he'd you know, go on. Well, you could hear him coming, you know, you definitely could, you know, you know, and um I could do an impression, I'm not gonna do an impression, you know. But he, you know, how we used to talk, yeah. You know, and he used to say to my daughter when she was young, you know, you've never seen Father Christmas before, have you? You know, because he's got his big white beard, yeah, you know, off duty, and he'd got his hat and stuff like that. Yeah, off-duty cars. Um going back to Marion, yeah. So Marion, um various times, she'd appeared in uh certainly in the news of the world, I remember. Okay, you know, you know, um they were talking about witchcraft and they try and I suppose it was a hot topic at one point, wasn't it? That's right, 70s or whatever. Yeah, I've got some uh in my archive, I've got photographs of Marion, all dressed up in a gear and uh you know at bio uh altar or whatever it was. Well it was a member once, you know, Lloyd, you've got to mention it as well. Yeah, um, on the subject of the right witch, because they had they had a big thing built up and it was it national press as well as the Beds on Sunday, which was the Beds on Sunday. And they you know, so they built this big thing up that they were gonna go and raise the devil uh one night over at Clopp and Clocky Woods. So they were going over there to raise the devil uh at midnight, but they but they went actually, I'll never forget it. We were all in the griffin, yeah, and they came in in their gear and they they they they got down in the circle in the griffin in the lounge, and then they took photographs of them. So the press took photographs of them. Yeah, then they got a few drinks, then they had a few drinks more, then had a few drinks more, and of course the next day the question was, did you actually raise the devil? We never got out of the pub. Crashed her broomstick instead of it. So it never got out of the pub, though. Quite a historic or interesting area. It's like near here, you've got Water Lane, the old bell pub, the half moon, and then it's there's it's church walk, is it? Yeah, ladies' lane. Yeah, well it is. I mean, you've got church walk is what it says, you know, on the team, you know, the walk to the church. Yes. A lot of people call that actually two things. They call that some some people will call that ladies' walk, and aren't other people will call it um Green Ladies' Walk. Okay. Yeah, locally. Yeah. But uh Ladies Walk is actually the little uh causeway that runs off of the main footpath, um which is the tree line path, that was under threat until recently. I've got to mention that. Yes. I do, yeah. Because it was because it was under threat and you know, and and the planning uh proposal was rejected. I have to say, as well, it's probably one of the most haunted paths in the whole of the UK. If you if you look to the records, you know, sort of like and various records, not just one, but if you look in various books and various about hauntings, and then you look in the county archive and national um paranormal database, yeah. There's there's there's so many hauntings there. So there's a lot of reported cases. A lot of reported cases that are recorded, you know, not just you say, Well, I saw a ghost or that kind of thing, but written down like it's a lovely spot, but it is quite atmospheric, and yeah. I mean my story is I mean jogging up there once 15, 20 years ago, this sounds a bit daft. Massive hair came out from behind a tree and just turned around, spun off. But it just seemed really big, it was on its back legs. Irrational guy, yeah, just loomed up, it spun round and ran off and I wonder what the hell that was. It's you know, you talk about rational, you know, and and you know, uh being a rational guy, yeah, and people people are irrational, but things like things do happen that I unexplained sometimes. I couldn't explain it. I'm part of the what is the Kempston Ghost Walking, which is basically tell the stores at Kempston uh down that haunted path twice a year. Yeah, we do it for entertainment and also for charity, but there's also the paranormal society, and the paranormal society are different, they go and search of ghosts in various porches and things like that. They didn't didn't exist until some of them had an experience on that very path. They didn't exist, yeah. Yeah, they saw something on that path which they couldn't explain, and they they they described it to me. They saw somebody on the horse, uh, all of them saw it. Yeah, it was and it was on Sunday. Yeah, so so we're not talking about sort of like a dark evening, we're not talking about an evening when it was all dark and atmospheric and no thunder or lightning or anything like that, or or mist, you know. They they saw something there, and that that provoked, you know, prompted them to um yeah to form the society. So yeah. I did did your walk a few years ago, yeah, and it was great, but I just remember it being so cold. Yeah, it was really cold that year. Yeah, chilly. I know I don't know. Lasting memories, yeah, we try we try and change it every year, you know. We uh we improve it and get more people involved and stuff like that. Yeah, we've already got one filled for this year, which is brilliant, you know. And um, and then that's another um charity fundraiser, so that's good. Just one more thing. Anyone about bands in the pub question, or or not first? Yeah, oh well, uh you know, um I've seen a fair few bands in the pubs over the years. Yeah, the thing is, right, and not a pub, but I um I was brought up in the Kempston Liberal Club. I went down there every Saturday night, very mum and dad, and in the 60s, 70s there was uh there was always a band on the Saturday night. So I don't know if that's what I've got my love of live music, maybe and uh so very much so. And and and locally, yeah, there's been great bands locally over the years. Yeah, um, there's a great band as we know during the circuit, and of which I was involved with, you know, we had some sort of connection with. That's Life of Riety, the Irish band. Okay, yeah. Um, yeah, and Frank and the guys are still in one incarnation, they're still very much busy. Yeah, they're doing loads of gigs. Um, they've had various changes over the years, but yeah. Life of Riley, I've mentioned uh another band that used to come to Bedford was a band called White Light. Okay. Covers band, but they could play every single cover like you know, um, you know, to perfection. Yeah. And the lead, the the front man was eccentric, so he was a little bit more than just a pub, uh, you know, sort of a you you your typical amateur band singer. Good front man. Oh, he was a great front man. I mean he'd do you know some crazy things, yeah. And it means and and they weren't contrived, he just didn't mean so I think about him. So it's a shame he don't come to Bedford anymore. Yeah, I've actually been and travelled twice to see him. There we are. Oh to keep an eye out for him. Yeah, but I've got to tell you, uh just to you know to finish on the subject, you know, because I was in coma. Oh yeah, um best part of you know five or six years ago now, but anyway, yeah, but the town was locked down, and it was locked down because trouble in the town, massive trouble. So all the pubs were closed. You couldn't get in a pub. So we went out and for a meal and for a drink, and we couldn't get in any. They said, No, sorry, the police have told us it's closed. But um, because I have a sort of club membership card, yeah. Um uh the club the chroma club was open. So we went in the chroma club where there's a band pain in the chroma club. I've never seen anything like it, not in all my years. They were called the blood shaped court, so they were dressed as zombies, and their lead singer was a huge man with a beard that was matted in blood, and his eyes were sunken and black, and he'd got this big he was huge, and he'd got this meat, this butcher's apron on that was covered in blood and stuff like that. And the guys backing him were all dressed similarly, you know, like that. Yeah, but the point is, yeah, you cannot get away, uh you know, just dress like that, you've got to do the stuff as well, you've got to do your music. And these these blokes, obviously, the guy sang like nobody else, he had this voice. In fact, he's a mate because he sings with him occasionally of um oh uh Rag and Bowman. Oh, yeah, yeah, Roy Graham. Okay, so he sang with him a few times because he comes in the same area, okay. And he's but this bloke was huge, and he got a rasping voice, yeah, and the way they did all their songs was different, they presented them differently, yeah. You know, with this road. So Goggiem ever mentioned it. Yeah, and I've seen them a few times since. Oh yeah. Definitely gone down to sort of like the lowest off way to see them. Yeah. Okay, brilliant. There we are. Thank you very much. Last orders at the bar, please! Do you talking walking? Okay, so that's episode two wrapped up. I hope you enjoyed David Sims and his Tales of Old Kempston Town. Um, for clarification and context, we were speculating about pubs reopening or adding accommodation in light of the universal theme park, which is opened in near Kempston slightly surreally, in uh 2031, which um should be good for businesses all round. Uh you can follow David's page at Kempston Ghostwalks on Facebook. And don't forget to follow Dead Hubs of the Eggershire on Facebook and Instagram and um subscribe to Hubs of the Shire. Uh follow that from wherever you get your podcast from. Thanks. I