Ep 3: From $20 Million in Debt and Homeless to Starting Over & Finding Love | James Ray & Bersabeh Ray

What do you do when life completely falls apart?

In this powerful conversation, Adrien Blackwell sits down with James Ray, featured in The Secret, and Bersabeh Ray to discuss resilience, reinvention, relationships, purpose, and what it takes to rebuild your life after devastating setbacks.

Together they explore the lessons learned through adversity, the role relationships play in our success, why many people repeat the same patterns in love and life, and how healing unresolved emotional wounds can transform every area of your life. James shares his journey of losing everything and rebuilding from the ground up, while Bersabeh reveals how deep healing and integration can help people break free from old patterns and create lasting change.

If you've ever felt stuck, lost, overwhelmed, or ready for a fresh start, this episode is a reminder that your past does not define your future and that it's never too late to begin again.

Note: This conversation was recorded on January 16, 2024, approximately one year before James Arthur Ray's passing on January 3, 2025. 

 The views and experiences shared in this episode are those of the guest and are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. This content does not constitute medical, psychological, or therapeutic advice. Please consult a qualified professional for any health concerns. That said, we believe in the power of what's possible. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Making Miracles Happen masterclass with host celebrity healer Adrian Blackwell and guest James Arthur Ray from The Secret Movie and Versabar Ray. Hey everybody and welcome to Making Miracles Happen. We have very special guests here today. Yes, we have two of them. I'm very excited about this because as we look at the work that these two amazing people do, I, you know, I looked at the website and I saw all of these amazing testimonials that I really want to get into. But first of all, we need our guests to introduce themselves. So can you go ahead and introduce yourself and just tell people what it is that you do?

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Well, we we do we work with individuals and or and businesses that want to create a significant business while simultaneously, and this is key, have meaningful relationships and have a fulfilling life. And unfortunately, Adrienne, one of the things we find is that a lot of times it's either or. And it doesn't have to be either or. It should be both and. And so meaningful relationships and a fulfilling life, as well as a significant business. And so we do a variety of things in that area. We do business consulting work, obviously. We do quite a bit of work with relationships because we've got quite a bit of experience with that, actually, through through war, quite frankly. And we do one-on-one intensive work and and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Okay, awesome. So this is what I I found. I have followed you for a really long time. I actually saw you in person once, James, and it that was amazing. And I brought my whole entire family to see you in person. And it's and it's amazing what you teach, right? And you're helping people just get out of the limitations that they've lived in. But I was really fascinated to go to your website and see that people were talking about, thank you for helping me find myself. You know, thank you for helping me make all of this new money that's coming in now. Some people were talking about they're sober after working with the two of you. And then I saw people saying that they've released weight after we're working with you. And I was like, this is a lie. This isn't just what this isn't just about money. This isn't just about relationships. This is people changing their whole entire lives. And where I really love this conversation is when I talk to the people that I work with, I'm like, I want to work with people who want it all. Not just like money is bad, but I want love. That's what I want to focus on. Bring me love. Or people who are just like, uh, you know, uh, I really need money, so I'm gonna give up on love. And I'm like, screw that, like we want it all, right? And that's what you two are about. So I'd like to really dig into that. So, first of all, can you just tell me how are you helping people have all of these different types of testimonials?

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Go ahead, go ahead, Marjorie.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

I just love your energy, I have to say that it's like it's vibrant, it's very cool. Well, how are we doing? Well, we we believe in doing it in all areas of your life, so we don't just do one, we believe in the the spectrum of the wheel, which is you got spiritual, mental, emotional, relational, and financial. So that all, you know, they work together simultaneously. And when when we work with individuals, they might come to you and say, you know, I have this issue in my romantic life. I keep making the same mistakes, or it's choosing the same person, just different hair color, different, you know, but it's the same repeating pattern, you can say.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Same guy, different name, different job.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

Yeah. So then what happens is that we go into that, and then we uh find out, well, this is related to something that happened to you maybe in your childhood, and is causing you to have these behaviors now, which not only come out in your relationship, but they come out in your job. They come out in not romantic relationships, but with your friends and how you're with your family and your co-workers and so forth.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah, you always show up as you.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

And and everything affects everything. Everything, everything, everything counts. There's there's nothing that doesn't count. And so we we look at the full, as Bearsabus said, we look at the full spectrum. And one of the things that we find to be the greatest problem, and I and it doesn't, I don't care if it's if it's financial, business, relational, spiritual, uh, physical, emotional, the greatest problem is lack of integration. People are fragmented. And and so the work that we do really looks at, and it doesn't matter whether we're working with a CEO. Um, we just recently worked with an $80 million company, and we were working, you know, one-on-one with the CEO and his his executive team. It doesn't matter if it's that or if it's a one-on-one with an entrepreneur or an individual looking for their greatest relationship, romantic relationship. We we look at the full spectrum, and as Bercius said, there's there's five dimensions: financial, relational, mental, physical, spiritual, which I wrote about all the way back in 2006 in my New York Times bestseller, Harmonic Wealth. And it still holds true today, all these years later, because if you only look at one facet, you don't have a diamond. You know, a diamond only comes from multiple facets, if that if you follow the analogy.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Yeah, absolutely. And I want to rewind, I want to go back into the past. I'd like to know from each one of you how did you get started on this path of helping people?

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Well, Bearsiva's story longer than mine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Bearsible, poor Bearsaba is on a midlife show, and and you know, I'm I'm so much closer to midlife than than she is. You know, I I I made a decision a long time ago, Adrian, just as an aside, that that for whatever reason, and we'll see, time will tell, that I was gonna live to be 125. So that means I'm in midlife right now, okay? Because because I and I'm working really hard to make that happen. But Bearsma is not quite there yet. But nonetheless, nonetheless, how do we get started? I I've been doing this since Moses, you know. You saw me way back when I I literally started at ATT School of Business as a as a sales, a salesperson, and then I was a sales trainer, and then I went to ATT School of Business as a C-suite consultant, started my own business in '92, and you know, have been at it ever since. And so that's Bearsaba. I'll give you the answer, and then she can give you hers, but I'll give you my answer, how she got in this into this business with a lot of arm twisting from me. She got into this business with a lot of arm twisting because she was always like, I'm a behind the scenes person, you know, I I don't talk on mic. And and now she's an incredible intuitive and healer that just, you know, when I need something worked on, I she's my go-to. So so anyway, I've been in this business for a long, long time, starting in in the corporate arena, then moving into the entrepreneurial, and then you saw me. I would imagine maybe it was at a harmonic wealth weekend, the two-day event years ago, possibly, or or something of that nature. And and I've been at this for a long, long time. And you know, it's interesting because sometimes people say to me, Well, what are you going to do next? I'm doing it. I this is what God sent me here to do. And I know that with absolute clarity. And that that's something we can talk about too, because when you know what your purpose is, you don't quit. And God knows I've had a lot of opportunities to quit. I've had some really tough times, as has Bearsabon, and I'll let her talk for herself. But hopefully that answers your question from my perspective. Sweetie, how would you say you got into this business? Would you agree with me, or do you have a different opinion?

SPEAKER_04 8:14

Say I was the in the beginning, I started out maybe the person that was looking to something more and looking to I was having my midlife crisis because I had just come out of a divorce. So a very bad divorce. And I kind of got on this path where I'm like, I need to, you know, start doing things differently. There's something not right here, there's something more, and this important. So I got into it by being the example of doing the work and cleaning up and accepting some of the yeah, I wouldn't say gifts. I think we all have them is intuitive gifts, and it was something that I kind of I came in with and I didn't accept it. It was too much, and I didn't understand it. So I got into a lot of bad habits and you know, things you don't, you know, people struggle with drug abuse, alcohol abuse, smoking cigarettes, and so forth, and being with the wrong crowds. So when I finally cleaned up, I learned how to handle and yeah, work with what you know what my gifts are, and that's how you know it it mixes well. It worked.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

It works really well.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

You know, she's so I I would I would never ask my clients to do something I have not done.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

She she escaped from Iran as a child across the desert in the dead of night at the risk of being killed. I mean not a normal childhood. Not a normal childhood. She grew up with bombs dropping around her house when when Iran was at war. And so a lot of childhood trauma. And both of us, when I said that we built our relationship through war, I mean that literally in the sense that we've both been through some incredible challenges. You know, it doesn't take much to look at to find my history on the internet. And I have been through some incredible challenges and difficulties and fallen flat on my face so many times and learned so many lessons. But here's here's what I know, Adrian. He or she who falls and gets back up is stronger and wiser than he or she who never fell. So my encouragement in today's world, which is very, very turbulent and very disruptive right now, is keep the faith, get back up, keep going. There's a bigger power in charge than than just you. And when you have faith in that and you stay plugged into that, you will you will learn and grow and and experience things that you could never experience otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

No, I love that. How did you to meet?

SPEAKER_02 11:06

All right, so so I don't love stalk you, don't say that. She did stalk me on Facebook. But she saw me present. I I was away for about four years, and and I don't know if you know the story, but but I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I don't know how much the audience knows, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah, I'm an open book. I mean, I can go into it or I could not go into it, but but no, you feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

I'm just gonna give you the floor.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

I'm comfortable. So I was I was at the top of my game in 2009. I I had been really, really blessed. I was on Oprah numerous times and Larry King, and I was a New York Times bestseller and Inc. 500 inductee and and so forth. And and it all came to a crashing fall when my team, my company, and I conducted an event in Sedona in 2009, and at the end of a five-day retreat, we had we had an experiential learning opportunity that went incredibly wrong. And and without going into all the details, just for sake of time, Adrian, you know, three people died in a sweat lodge, and it it just broke my heart. You know, it broke my heart. If if you've ever lost anyone that you care about, you know how that feels. And some days it was just more than I thought I could handle, but life had more for me to handle. And so the state of Arizona came after me and said it was intentional, which is crazy, literally crazy. You know.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

But that's not good for business. I can't imagine how that's intentional.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

No, I and and that you you're ahead of me. I mean, there's not one business person here today who would intentionally harm his or her clients and think they're gonna stay in business. And and so it was an it was a horrible accident and it broke my heart. And yet they came after me and charged me with manslaughter, which is intentional harm. And and so I lost everything. You know, I went from being the hero on on Oprah and Larry King and the Today Show to being the villain. And so, you know, they one of the quotes I really love from the Dark Knight movie says, you either die a hero or you live long enough to become the villain. And and it's true. I mean, I I became the villain, and and the media just started hammering me, hammering me. And and long short, I went to trial, they acquitted me of manslaughter. The the the jury couldn't find one streak of evidence of intentional harm. But what was included in that was a lesser inclusive called negligence. And and negligence means that I overlook something. I own that, all right. I wish I hadn't. Negligence says I could have prepared better. Yeah, God, I wish I would have. Negligence says that that things could have been done differently, and and there's not a day that goes by that I don't wish that occurred. And so I own that. And and they wanted 30 years, which means I wouldn't be here today, but I ended up getting two years, which felt like a gift from 30. And I went, I went to prison. I came out in 2013. I was standing in the middle of the desert in Sedona. I didn't even know Bearsaba. I was I was totally alone. I was homeless. I lost everything. My my savings, my my home, my friends and colleagues that at that were at the event, which was the most important thing, my reputation, all of it. And I was standing in the desert, and on top of that, I was $20 million in debt. 20 million in 2013. So that was 10 years ago. And so I had to really get my head on. I had to really say, what am I here to do? And I, you know, God help me direct me because what am I going to do with this new chapter of my life? And I was really jaded and I was really frustrated, as you might imagine. I I the system, I I just kept thinking, Adrian, you know, what's going on in the media today, and so many people who believe that the media is is not telling us the truth and they're hiding things from us. That's not surprising to me because I've experienced that. I know that. You know, I was a precursor to a lot of that. And so so it's hard. It's a hard pill to swallow when you've been told things are a certain way for a long time, and then all of a sudden they're not that way. A lot easier when you grow up in Iran with a country when it's expected. When it's expected that they're gonna tell you things that aren't true all the time, you know. But but this was America. And and and so anyway, I was really jaded and really frustrated, and yet here I am, because I had to, I said, I don't want anything to do with personal performance, I don't want anything to do with what I'd done before. I'm not I'm not going back to that. I'm gonna, you know, go do something completely different. Well, God said, No, no, you're not going to, you know, because because this is this is going to make you better.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

And it has.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

It has. You know, Bears of has told me numerous times if you were that guy before, you would not be my husband. And and so, you know, I I can give that, yeah. Yeah, I look back and I don't know what your experience was. You said it was great coming to see me live, but I I got to a point where I mean I had over a million people from 146 countries around the world coming to my two-day weekend, harmonic wealth, and asking me how to have a better life. Well, I got caught up kind of in the hubris, you know. Hey, I've done all this work and all this study, and boy, I'm I've I kind of got my stuff together. And then life goes, oh, really? Then try this and see if you got your stuff together. And and so it's really it humbled me greatly. And when you face these incredible challenges, which many people are facing right now, it opens the heart because you have to come back to the heart and say, what's really important to me? What's my life really about? And what am I gonna do with this experience and with this learning? And and that's so anyway, that's that's my story. And there's there's a whole lot of deep details to it. I I don't know. My latest book, The Business of Redemption, I kind of talk about all my experiences and all my learnings in there. But at the end of the day, I know I'm a better man and I'm a better person because uh it's I've been tenderized, you know. If you ever eat meat, you know, you got to tenderize it. Well, I've I've been tenderized quite a bit, and and it's made me a better person and it it brought great gifts into my life.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yes, and so you you got out and you were homeless. And how does she come into the picture?

SPEAKER_02 18:57

When I was homeless and twenty million dollars in debt, which tells you it wasn't for the money, it wasn't you know, when I would when I was worth north of twenty million dollars, which I was at one point, on you know, supposedly, but that's a whole nother story. You know, one of the things that's that's a curse about that, Adrian, is you never know if someone's with you for what you can give them and do for them, or if they're with you for you. Well, I know for a fact that Bearsaba is with me for me because because I was homeless and and when when we met, and and I I really didn't have other much to give her other than my learning and my experience and my love. So um from there, you know, from there, how did we meet?

SPEAKER_04 19:52

Well, he he had a speaking gig, it was his first speaking gig back, and I was part of some networking company. I can't, I don't know if I should say a name, I don't know who they were. I forget, it's a while ago. So I and they had said, Oh, we're gonna have a speaker come from the secret, and it was like supposed to be kept a secret. I'm like, Oh, that might be fun. I'm gonna go check it out. So I went, and of course, that's when they were filming his documentary, and he comes in and I see all these cameras. I'm like, who is that? I kept looking, and he had long hair and a goatee, so I didn't recognize. I'm looking at him and he smiled. I'm like, Oh, it's the genie guy. I didn't know his name. So that's how it kind of started. And it was I reached out to him because I was like, you know what? On Facebook. On Facebook, because he stalked me. Yeah, I did that that's where the stalking came. Is I reached out to him on Facebook to work for him because I when he came in, it was like this energy, you could feel it. It came in, and I was like, ooh, what is that? I want some of that. You know, that's what I went after. And then I had no idea any of this happened because I was actually even in Belgium before the before I met him. Well, I had just come back to the States, no idea. And that's how it that's how it started. I started working with him. I did all of his social media posts and graphic works is a little bit of my background, and and then it, you know, there there was an attraction there. We fought it off a bit, and we're like, no, we can't, because it's work, and work is important, and that came first.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

And that's part of our relationship too, that we yeah, it's really important. We were friends for three years before before we we were romantically involved. And then I I believe that's the first time it's ever been that way in my life. And and I believe it's vitally important, and and that's what we always fall back on. We do, we're that's never gonna go away. It's just not. I mean, we do everything together. That's true. We literally everything literally we work together, we have morning coffee, morning coffee at five AM. We talk about our dreams from the previous night. We, you know, go to the gym and work out. We, we, I mean, we literally Yeah. We're we're together 24-7. So when COVID came along, you know, so many of our clients were going crazy because they couldn't go to work and they had to be with this person they were married to. And and they're like, you know what? I don't really even like him. I, you know, and I can't, I can't go anywhere. What am I gonna do? Well, that's it's really unfortunate. And and so, you know, we built this solid friendship, and and as Barcerba said, we resisted going into it. I mean, I I was a commitment phobe, I'll just admit that. And and I'm learning so much right now. Yeah, no, I I really was, and she was, and and I I had sworn up and down when we got engaged. My family was aghast, pleasantly aghast, because I had sworn up and down I was gonna be, you know, a a lifetime bachelor. And I really believed that, I meant that, but she broke me down, you know, and I'm so grateful. I'm really grateful, yeah, yeah. So, but we resisted because we didn't want to ruin the friendship, and at that point we had a really good business relationship too, and we didn't want to send that south either. But it's it's been the greatest gift that I've ever been given, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

So I like to tell my audience to get out their their pen and paper and start taking notes. So hopefully they've already done that because I completely forgot. But I always pinpoint the things that I've gotten from the interview so far. And what I love is that when we talk about midlife, we're talking about sometimes reinventing ourselves. Maybe we are working a job that we absolutely hate and we don't want to do that anymore. We're in a relationship we don't want to be in, we don't want to do that anymore. We're single, we don't want to be single anymore. We want to change our bodies, we want to do something different. And so you both are are telling the whole audience how to do this, how you've done this. Like, and you came out of the depths, you know, where people, a lot of people don't have to go through that kind of torture, I'll call it, to learn and get to the other side. We just go through a midlife crisis, and then you know, we find something different after about a year and a half, and that's about it. But it's inspirational to say I've I've been here, I was homeless, and not only did I build my business back up, but I found love in the meantime.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

And did it in a new way in which you weren't willing to do it before? So you didn't got better than you were. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

You told that story. Yeah. We have a recording of it. Um you said it very well.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Yeah, I think I think what's really important, if we can if I can just address the relationship issue, which is so important, you know, one of the things that Napoleon Hill stated, and everyone knows Napoleon Hill, of course, all the way back in the 50s, is that, and and of course, at that point in time he studied men, because that's just what you did back in the 50s. But but now but the principles still hold true. And he said that one of the greatest challenges that he found in the individuals he studied not reaching their potential was choosing the wrong mate. And and I I couldn't agree with him more because your was what wasn't you didn't your dad tell you something about relationships?

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Yeah, he told my dad's takeaways. He said a woman can either make a man or break a man.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

And when you say the the contrary is true as well, a man can either break a woman or make a sure.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

You could either you know make a queen or something really bad.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Yeah. Yeah. What's that Baha'i quote that who was raised Baha'i?

SPEAKER_04 26:02

It's that men and relationship is a foundation for well-being. It's a bird, and in one wing is man and the other wing is woman, so you need both to be able to fly.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Yeah, it's a great metaphor. And and unfortunately, Adrian, what we've found, and we've experienced this, and I'm sure your viewers have as well, is that most people, if I can be just really straightforward, get into a relationship for two reasons lust or proximity. And proximity meaning, oh, I see her at the grocery store. I see him, you know, at the shoe store, and he's really cute, and and he's kind of hot and or or whatever. And unfortunately, lust always wears out. It it just does, you know. Not to suggest that we don't have a great sexual relationship. We do.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

We midlifers know this, right? We already know we've went through the lust wearing out, so we got this death.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah, if it if lust doesn't transmute into love, it's not it's not going to go anywhere other than coexistence. And and so many relationships are not really relationships, they're coexisting. Because relationship, a relationship is the act of relating, and that has to be done daily. And so what we do work with in relationships and and to help rekindle those that the fire has gone out, or those who are just beginning. Boy, if we can get someone who's just beginning, that's a gift, and that's that's a little bit of a challenge sometimes because when you're just beginning, everything is great, everything's great, you know, and you're doing everything right, you know, everything. You that you just want to you're so yeah, I I I can't wait to text her, you know, and to call her. And that all I promise you that just wears out. It just does. And and so, so you know, you you've got to lay the proper foundation, and that's what we have. We have a common foundation, yeah, a common purpose. We we have a clearly defined purpose for our business and for our relationship. One of the one of the hermetic laws of the universe is called the law of correspondence. And we just got done talking about this in our podcast. But the law of correspondence basically says if you want to know how to make something work, look at something that's already working, extract the principles, and apply them to the new thing. And you get the same results because life is repeating patterns, and even fractal geometry tells us this. And so if you look at a successful business, partnership, which which a relationship is, it's it's a partnership. And so, well, what do you need in a successful business? Well, you need a common purpose, a common direction. And so we have that clearly defined for our business as well as our relationship. You need common values, you need a common vision. Uh, vision is what we're going to do in the world, purpose is why we're here. And and so you need those types of things. And so Beershub and I really invest the time. Uh, you know, for we took two weeks at the end of the year, yeah, and we laid out our 2023 and in our not just in our business, but in our relationship. And then once a quarter we have a check-in. And we grade each other. We grade each other. It takes a whole day, and and we grade each other. And we look at our our we have individual values, and we have uh relationship values, and we say on a scale of one to five, how how do you how do you think you did? Well, I think I'm a three. Well, I think you're a two, and let me tell you why. All right, and and no, we really have those conversations, you know. I'm a five. No, you're not a five. We like to think you're you're at 2.5, and and so so no, we really do have those conversations and we discuss it, and it's it's it's a very important part.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

Oh, yeah. I mean, you skip all the you know, unwanted arguments, and that don't happen then, or disagreements, or miscommunication, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Except when I spilled water on on your clean floor yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Yeah, that was not cool.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

There's still yeah, let's let's just be straight up here, guys. We're it's not all roses and and and unicorns. I mean, we do have we do our best, we do have have disagreements, and much, much fewer. And when we do, they don't last very long. Because here's here's the other thing that's really important. And and we pull from the mystery traditions quite a bit. In the mystery traditions, it says everything comes from one source, and every spiritual tradition tells us that in one way, shape, or fashion. Well, that one source has to divide into two for the sake of manifestation, and quantum physics tells us that too. The photon divides into the positron and electron, and those two create a functional third. Now, I know that's a little heady, so let me just tell you how that applies to relationship is that you have you have Beersuba, in this case, you have Bearsova and you have James, and each of us have our own wants, needs, and desires. But then the two of us together create a functional third, which is called the relationship. And the relationship has an identity all its own. Does that make sense to you? Yep. So if I'm only thinking about me, I'm discounting the relationship. Or if Paris was only thinking about her, she's discounting the relationship. And so the relationship is our child, if you will. Okay. It's the child we've created. It's the functional third. And it's the same concept, repeating patterns, law of correspondence. How many, how many parents look at their child and they say, we've got to do this for the child, even though we want something different? Well, the same is true of the relationship if you're wise. And so, what's the best choice for the relationship? And if you won't go there, you're going to run into some real problems. And a lot of people do, because I mean, we've worked with couples who the husband, you know, for instance, all he wants is sex, just all the time, you know. And she's like, Yeah, but you look like a slob. You don't, you know. I want to be romance. I want to be romance. And and you you you dress up to go to business meetings and you dress, you dress like a homeless person, nothing at home, you know. And and so, so how can I get aroused when you look like a slob? And and so sweats, yeah, with holes in them. And so, so maybe, and so what we would say in that situation, it's a really simplistic one, but understand the principle, is that you got to step back and go, okay, the sweats might be comfortable, and I'm at home and it's my kingdom, and I, you know, but what's the best for the relationship? And so, so if the relationship needs this, then sometimes I need to sacrifice my wants, needs, and desires for the sake of the relationship. And I love the word sacrifice because if you trace it back, the etymology of the word back to its origins means to make sacred. And so sacrifice is laying something of a lesser value on the altar of life for something of a greater value. And again, that that holds true in relationships, it holds true in business, it holds true in reinventing yourself to go back to what you were talking about. You know, the most recent research, I'm kind of on my roll. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:30

Yeah, if you want to stop them, you gotta cut them off.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

But let me just say the most recent research tells us that every one of us, us as well as you, Adrian, and the viewer as well, will have to reinvent ourselves a minimum of five times over the remainder of our career. And so that's a really big issue you've you've brought up, and it's very important.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

That's actually really good to know because how many people, and I say this to my audience all the time is that we have this idea that we're supposed to be popped out of our mom's womb knowing all this stuff, and we're supposed to be successful as soon as we come out, and we should, we should just know at 18 how to be a millionaire. And it's like, no, there's there's growth, and then we fall, and then we get up, and then there's growth, and we take what we learn and we keep expanding and bettering ourselves. It's and so stop being so hard on yourself and just do the work. So it's it's interesting to hear you say reinventing yourself five times because that kind of makes it easier to know that. Yeah, well, so much easier. Very well stated. Yeah, thank you. So I have a really important question. First of all, we're gonna we're gonna ask you, have something free on your website that you're giving away. So let's talk about that first that we before we get into the juicy stuff.

unknown 35:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Oh, just more juicy stuff. Okay, it's juicy. Gets juicy.

unknown 35:48

All right.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

What are people gonna be scrolling down to get today?

SPEAKER_04 35:52

This is actually it'll be through an email, which is which is admin at jamesray.com, and I'm sure they will post that for you. Is that we're gonna give a month's free membership to our week bi-weekly meeting, Art of Alchemy via Zoom, which we present live bi-weekly, and we answer it's a QA, so it's really interactive. Kind of like this, it's kind of like this. It's fun, it's you know, we interact with our audience and they ask your questions, and so it's it's it's good stuff. And we're gonna give away a month's free to whoever is interested.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah, sorry, guess this is awesome. Thank you for that. So, all everybody has to do is scroll down. You'll be able to click on that link, open the window, get started on that now. You do not have to tune out of this interview to do that. So, we're gonna keep going with all the juiciness. Now, listen, you have shared so much that to me it equates to a miracle. And this show is all about miracles, so I love to talk about miracles. I'm wondering if you can just choose specifically a miraculous story. Maybe your client has experience, you have experience. I would love to hear a miracle from each of you. A miracle story.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

Miracle story. Okay, I'll go with okay. One of my clients is a female, and she you can say midline, she's probably gonna not like that very much, but she is so her thing it was relationships now. Not only romantic, but it was in friendships too, where she was kept running into making choosing the same person, and she got tired, she got to a point where she's like, you know what, I'm tired of choosing this person, even though I know they're wrong, right? You get all the signs, but yet you still continue. So that part of her saying, you know, I know it's he's they're wrong for me, but yet I still continue to go. And why do I keep doing that? And when I had my session with her, I said, Well, there's something hooking you, there's something there that we need to go back and and figure out what's going on for you. And what I do is I take it through my process and we recapitulate the event, take her to the specific event of where it happened, and this happened to be back in her close to childhood. And when I take her there, that's where the healing and integration happens. From there, once that has happened for her, and it kind of clicks in, you could almost call this like a soul retrieval. And she grabs it and we come back to the current situation where she had experienced the recent events, and when we go through them, she will either, in this case, she realized that her actions will not the same, and sometimes as far as not even making the same choices anymore. So, and then when when I bring her out of that, you can say meditation or so forth, it's like her whole world motto is is just shifted, right? It's it's no longer the same. So even if she wanted, if she if she even tried to go back to make the same mistake, she can't. And that's the beautiful part about it, is doing when you do that soul retrieval integration healing work, you you could try as hard as you want, and you will not go back to making the same mistake.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah, didn't you help her set up an action plan for for her future? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

And then I uh helped her to set up. I'm like, okay, let's see what we're looking for. What is it you exactly want? And I had her, you know, write all this down, and then we went in and I did another process where it took her into the future and had the outcome there, integrated that and brought it back. So it's really it's powerful work when you do it, and yeah, she's happy for her.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Yeah, it's really interesting that you bring that up. I've not heard of anybody else doing that before, but I've done that with a client, and their can't their cancer disappeared. That exact same product, the last thing that you talked about. That's very interesting. I'm like, huh, this is incredible. You know, how did you learn how to do this? Was this from James? Or was this your own process that you went through earlier?

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Toltec.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

This is mostly Toltec, and how I'm guided to do it is is whatever comes to me in in the process of doing so. Yeah, background teaching would be in Toltec, hermetics, and the mysteries, and the whole process of going through it. That's all that's all through in intuition.

unknown 40:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yeah, she's she's an incredible healer, and yeah, and you know, I just think it's all experiential.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

I like to have the person go through it so that it heals and integrates, you know, to get the results they want.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

You know, she's not the kind of person that you make an appointment with and go, okay, what's gonna happen for me next year?

SPEAKER_00 40:44

That that's not at all. She helps you create what you want next year. Show me what'll happen.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Yeah, no, she she really has this incredible intuition, and and as I stated earlier, one of the biggest problems we find, Adrian, is lack of integration. So there's literally a part of someone's soul that is stuck in this unresolved emotional issue, and you have to come back and and and bring it back. And and psychology, which I had the background in, and and is tells us that when you go back and revisit a memory with new resources and new abilities, you can never ever think or feel of that memory the same way again. You can't, because it shifts it. And and that's what she's really, really, really great at. Like I said, she's my go-to. And and I had a lot of healing to do after I came out of my dysfunctional vacation.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

So I was so fascinated by this because now because I was wondering about all the testimonials that I saw, and now I'm actually understanding this on a whole new level of why people are saying they got sober and they're making more money and they're having better relationships and they're releasing weight, and you're you're having all of these different um outcomes is because you really do heal the whole. I mean, amazing. Okay. Do you have another miracle story, James? Do you have one for us?

SPEAKER_02 42:16

I'm not talking about a client I had named Lou. And and I let me just say the difference between Bearsbah and my process, mine's a lot more cognitive, and my background behavioral sciences, and so it's a little bit more cognitive. I don't have the intuitive plug-in nearly as well as she. Sound familiar? And and there's no reason why. He's a good-looking guy, making decent money, has a good job, you know, very smart, articulate. There's no no logical reason why. Well, he worked with me uh for a year long, actually, hired me to work with him for a year. And and we looked at when when I go into an intervention, we have what we call the five dimensions of leadership and performance. And that's philosophy, psychology, physiology, community, and strategy. Most people only look at strategies. And what I what we're going to suggest to you is that if you don't look at all five, you're really missing, missing the boat. And so over that year-long intervention, I worked with him on all of those, in all of those areas. One of the things that's really important, Adrian, for a lot of people, and they just don't get it, is that if your body is toxic, you're not going to think clearly. And you're not going to behave clearly, and you're not going to have the confidence and the awareness that you potentially could have. And so that's the physiological quadrant of the model. And so I worked with him on a lot of things from diet, nutrition, and exercise to to values, beliefs, assumptions, perceptions, you know, which is the psychological portion. And then community, who are you hanging out with? You know, who do you invest your time with? Because willpower, I'm a pretty willful guy. And yet willpower is off and on. I don't, I don't care who you are, willpower is off and on. Your environment is 24-7. And your community that you're investing most of your time with, according to research from Harvard, has a driving factor on your influence, your impact, and your income. So then we have strategy as well. So I'm I'm looking at all these different things, and and the long and the short of it is after at the end of the year, he was he had turned his annual income when we started working together into a monthly income. He was making as much in a month as he was making previously in a year. And that's great. And yet, what's even better than that, he calls me up. He lived in Canada. He calls me up and he says, Hey, I'm getting married. And I said, Congratulations. He said, Will you come be in my wedding? And I said, You bet I will. And so I flew up to Canada and I stood up with him in his wedding. And he married the woman of his dreams. They're now, you know, happily married. They have a baby daughter. She's a little bit more than a baby now. She's she's growing, but and he he's just totally transformed his entire life in all areas. And so that's really that's the greatest gift. It really is to be able to facilitate that pro that process. And it's not that I created it, it's not that bear so it creates it. You create it for yourself. What we do is hopefully guide and facilitate that, but you have to do what's necessary to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Yeah, thank you for sharing those miracles. So for everybody watching, if you want to have it all, you know who to work with, you know where to go. We've already talked about it, we've covered it. There's no reason you shouldn't be clicking buttons, visiting websites, and making phone calls. I'm just saying. So this is the last part, and this is the last question I have for you. And this will end the interview. I will not say anything after this. This is all on you. But is there any final message that you feel like you have for the audience that they really need to hear? Either one of you or both.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

Mine would be this is what I'm getting is don't don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to let go and start over. Just make the jump. Jump. Just jump. It's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Damn. That's great. I would say there's a seed of greatness that is born within you. I don't care who you are, I don't care where you are, I don't care what you do. There's a seed of greatness born within you. And that seed has nothing to do with what's outside of you. It doesn't matter what's going on in the economy right now, what's going on politically, it doesn't matter, you know, what's going on with your business. And I'm not jaded to those things. I'm very sensitive to those things, but that's not the ultimate driver. There's a seed of greatness that's born within you. And when you remember that and you cultivate that, then you are here to actualize that. And you are here to do something great. And great is relative. You know, not everyone is meant to be a mega millionaire, not everyone is meant to be a best-selling author, not everyone is meant to be a speaker or any of those kind of things, you know, an Elon Musk, or, you know, I mean, not everyone's meant to do that, but every greatness is relative. It's it's bringing your God-given gifts to the table and actualizing those fully. And that's, you know, God's greatest gift to us is our unlimited potential. Our greatest gift back to God is to utilize it. And so my challenge to you is is to do that, to utilize it, to remember who you are. Take your power back, you know, stop giving it away to outside sources and go inside and take it back.