The Church Residency Podcast
The Church Residency Podcast explores how local churches are training the next generation of pastors, church planters, missionaries, and ministry leaders through residency programs.
Hosted by Mark Warnock, Residency Director at Family Church in South Florida, each episode features conversations with leaders from churches across the country who are building intentional pathways for leadership development. Learn how residency programs are designed, funded, and implemented, hear lessons learned from both successes and failures, and discover practical strategies for developing leaders through hands-on ministry experience.
Whether you're leading an established residency, considering starting one, or simply passionate about raising up future leaders in the local church, this podcast will equip and encourage you to invest in leadership development within the life of the church.
The Church Residency Podcast
Ep.4: The Art of Spotting Potential Leaders
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John Wills of Champion Forest Church in Houston on building and running a residency that prepares the next generation of ministry leaders — key strategies, hard-won lessons, and the joy of investing in future pastors.
In this episode:
– The theological foundation and purpose of church residencies
– Structuring a residency that balances experience and education
– Recruiting and selecting candidates, including diversity considerations
– Calling, identity, and developmental stages in ministry formation
– Financial models: foundation grants and church contributions
Full show notes, timestamps, and every resource mentioned in this episode:
https://gofamilychurch.org/residency-podcast
Free — The Church Residency Starter Kit:
https://mailchi.mp/b05f61683eff/church-residency-podcast
Residency Builder Workshop · Jacksonville, FL · September 29–30, 2026:
https://www.sendnetwork.com/events/residency-builder-jacksonville-fl/
Connect with John Wills:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-wills-b3378a172/
Click here to access the FREE Church Residency Starter Kit.
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Sign up to attend the Residency Builder Event in Jacksonville, Florida
September 29-30, 2026
https://www.sendnetwork.com/events/residency-builder-jacksonville-fl/
Hire leaders, you're dead. That's good. And these are if you're gonna hire a resident, you're trying, you're hiring a leader or a potential leader. So you gotta see things in them. You know, God's gotta, you know, we pray God gives Holy Spirit eyes. Amen. You know, I don't want to hire Saul because he's tall and pretty. You know, he's a great warrior. That's right. That's right. In fact, I think one trip I was going on, Jarrett called me and said, find the Davids. Yeah. The overlooked ones out taking care of the sheep. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and I would say to everybody, be careful there. Because I think you might miss somebody. You might miss somebody because you know, we don't this is not a pretty contest. No. So um, so be careful.
SPEAKER_01So hi friends, welcome to the church residency podcast. I'm your host, Mark Warnock, coming to you from West Palm Beach, Florida, from Family Church. Uh, we have conversations about training pastors, planters, missionaries, ministry leaders through local church residencies. And today I'm really happy to be talking with John Wills. Uh, he's out at Champion Forest uh church in Houston, Texas. And um he's been leading their um very robust uh residency program for a while. Uh John, thanks for uh taking some time today.
SPEAKER_00Hey, my privilege, really. Uh um love talking, shop, and yeah, still learning a lot about residency, but just uh big fan and um excited about what the father's doing in churches all over the place. So amen. And I do think it's just uh I mean, it's such residency is such an amazing tool to spell uh of developing this next generation. And sad I didn't have it when I was younger, but amen. Oh my goodness. But really, really glad that God's you know brought this to the forefront and churches are getting involved and and getting people ready. So preparation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's good, it's good, man. Well, let's uh let's start with you. Um tell us a little bit about kind of your ministry background and some of the experiences you've had. How'd you get to Champion Forest and how'd you get into the residency uh development seat? And then along the way, um you know, your church is a pretty historic and influential church, but not everybody may be familiar with it. So kind of give us a little bit of um of uh info about about your church as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um I didn't grow up in the church. Um my I came to faith in high school the first time I ever heard the gospel preached. Okay. Um I meant my heart was really ready. Uh a friend brought me to church. Um, I remember it like it was yesterday. I remember where I was. I remember some of the things that I was feeling and just things I heard about relationship and Jesus that I had never heard in my entire life. And it was something at that point in my life, I was just starving, and it was like the best news I had ever heard. It still is. But so came to faith in high school. I met my wife at Sagemont Church, which is where I came to faith, which is a great church on the other side of Houston. Yeah, and um I felt God called to ministry between my junior and senior years of high school, and uh that happened on a mission trip, and so I really think mission trips are transformational in lots of ways. It's part of my story and a lot of people's stories. So I met my wife at the church. We got married when we were very young, didn't know what we were doing. We've been married 47 years, so um, we have two kids, uh that and we have seven grandchildren. So one of the reasons for coming back to Houston was the grandkids, and uh but I um I started working in student ministry early in college here at Sagemont, there at Sagemont, and um just loved student ministry, um loved students, loved hanging out with them. Uh obviously that was a very influential time in my life when I came to faith, and so I just I mean that's just such a pivotal time, either go one direction or the other for high school students. And so I started working in student ministry, kind of worked my way up from I think at the church from janitor. That's not a part of the student ministry, but that's what it kind of was. Yeah, it was. If you could, if you could mind that that field, then you could, you know, be moved up. So and then I was an associate student minister, I was a junior high pastor, which I loved, because um, you know, the kids weren't too, you know, they were they wanted to listen and they were hungry. And uh so um and then I became the student pastor after about and was there about nine years through college and through seminary, and then uh came at that time to Champion Forest, where I am now, but this is a long time ago, 86 to 94. I was a student pastor here and loved it, and uh was here eight years, saw an entire class of seventh graders graduate, which was very fun to stick around to see kind of the fruit of your labor and the fruit of the church's labor into that generation of students, you know, for that season. And I and when I interviewed, I don't know why, but I told him I'd be your I'll bring a class all the way through, which you know one, I couldn't guarantee they'd keep me that long. But it really turned out great. And then I left here, went to Prestonwood, uh, and um was there for three years as a student pastor, but really began to sense that uh I was about to turn 40 and really began to sense that I wasn't gonna be in student ministry for the rest of my life. Um so I was uh like an ex-gen pastor for seven years and did adult life groups back at Sagemont my second time there, which was part of my story is I've been at two churches twice. So and uh always tell the residents here, leave well, you know. Yeah, that's a good thing. Because you never know. And I meant don't leave because you think you're coming back for another job, but just leave well. Don't hurt the church, invest in it and leave well. So uh, but I kind of even in those days I knew I was gonna be probably like a an executive pastor where I could help a senior leader. Um, I love details and I love execution, and so I got to do that for about 18 years to be an exec pastor at two churches up in the Metroplex up in Dallas.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And then uh five years ago, God brought us to Houston to run the residency with my pastor who's amazing. His name's Jarrett Stevens. And and really Jarrett's um he he did his dissertation from Liberty on a local church residency program. And so it was his heart, and and I had done a lot of this kind of stuff over the years as a student pastor with interns and you know, developing kids that felt like God was following them in a ministry, and that was real uh, you know, that was just part of the one of the things that was a sign of a great student ministry is that you're raising up kids that you know at least their their hands are out and are saying, God, uh, what do you want to do with me?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But that's the possibility, you know, to ask God the question as opposed to telling God where you're gonna go to school and what you're gonna do with your life. And and so um, so it's been really we've been here five years. Uh we developed the residency from there wasn't one, and um now it's a really thriving part of the church.
SPEAKER_01And it's been was this something that uh Pastor Jarrett liked, was this in his heart to get it started, and then he found you and brought you in to do it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and we had met when I was at Prestonwood, but yeah, it was totally in his heart. He had been he was the product of an internship and then a residency program. Got it, and so he knew in his own life how much that had impacted him to learn under practitioners, you know, and to not be the, you know, you know, back in the day, and I that tells me how old I am, but back in the day, you just when you got out of college or were going to seminary, you just went to be a youth pastor somewhere. That's right. I mean you didn't know what yeah, you figured it out. I mean that's a great way to put it. But I mean, you and I both know that figuring it out is a very painful, you know. Um painful for the church and painful for you. Yeah, I mean on both sides of it, just uh because you make mistakes, you know, some um, you know, some of omission and some of commission, you know, you just don't know what to do, and then sometimes you do the wrong thing. And um, so like I say it was really instrumental for Pastor Jarrett. And so one, I mean, this was really he as soon as he got here, he wanted to start. And so he came in January. We talked in January. Um, he he preached and loved people till Easter. He still loves them. I don't want to get bored. But he just said, I'm gonna he was brand new, so I'm gonna preach and I'm gonna love these people. And then as soon as Easter's over, he called and said, you know, let's let's do this. And so I feel like God's calling us to do this. And so um it was his vision and dream. And like I say, it's been just a blast. Uh and I love, I mentioned earlier, I like working for somebody that has a dream and a vision, yeah, and they're you know, can make decisions and are um decisive and know what you want, and just you know, tell me what you want. And if you'll tell me what you want, I you know, God willing, we can do this. So yeah, definitely. We started uh my we started the res. I came in July, we started the residency in January of 22. Okay. We hired three people in January, we hired six more in March, six more in May, and then we were up to about twenty-three come August, and we had us fairly full. So the plan was always to have 20 plus in the residency. Okay. And we started um kids were in host homes because we didn't have any place for them to live. That's always one of the critical things about residency, where the students are gonna live. And uh, and you know, we found out things, you know, college graduates in in host homes for a year or two years. That's a lot to ask of a host home. And it's and these are college graduates, so it's really a lot to ask of them, you know. They want they want and need some space, and so we, you know, we had some growing pains, but we got through it, and then we put them in apartments for a season. Okay, a growing pain as well, because it was very expensive, and um, and then the Lord provided uh somebody loved the pastor's vision and built housing for us, which was wow, extraordinary. Yeah, I mean it's an amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah so so let me just double-click and clarify. So your students are college graduates. Is this all of them? Are they all sort of in this young sort of early mid-20s kind of category? And then so say more, say more about kind of your your candidates, the people that you get into it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think our sweet spot is probably people that uh initially we wanted like undergrads that had at least 60 hours.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00The problem with that was an undergrad is so hour intensive. Yeah, that's right. And so it's really, really hard for us to work them like we want to work them on on property, and then for them to also have time to go to class and do all that stuff and get their get their homework and stuff done and their research done. So uh, so even after six months, we just said, okay, we we're not gonna do this anymore. Now, um we have a we have one that's about to finish her grad her bachelor's degree. She's 27, so it's kind of an interesting thing. She's mature, right? She is a she. So the girls are quite a bit more mature than the guys. Um most of the time. Most of the time. Right. Right. Just it's taking longer for guys to mature in this culture and things like that. But it's a mixture of guys and girls, about 50-50. Okay. Um, we found that to be really, really good. Um, so it's a great place, like, say, for students that are feeling called to ministry and want to explore that call, it's a great place for them to come. We talk about one of our big deals is we want to help you clarify your calling.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I don't know that you I don't you do you do that in the context of ministry. That's right. You know, I d I I meant where people see you doing ministry and serving the church, and then where you get a sense of what God's heart is, and you do jobs around the church, and some that you absolutely love, and some that you absolutely loathe. And you know, you kind of figure out, and then other people and you know, the Holy Spirit hopefully speaking through them to say, hey, I could really see you doing this or this or whatever. So it's kind of a I mean, it's a it takes a village.
SPEAKER_01Uh you know, we have a um, I I want to just uh like pull that one thread because this is one of the major things that I learned from you is the first time you and I were talking about your program and how it was set up, you mentioned that you did uh sort of like a emphasis on calling to ministry at the very end, right? And at the time our program had calling to ministry as the very first thing that we did. And so I was like, oh, this is interesting to me. Why do you do it? And you said exactly this is like you figure out your calling out of the experience of doing ministry. And so I immediately went back and moved our calling unit way later in the program than it was before. And that's that's been a good move for me so far. So I like your your uh sense of development, you know, the developmental nature of uh of what calling is.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think like even in our application for the residency, there's a place on there it says from one to ten, ten being the strongest, what is what is your sense of calling right now? Yeah, and so we do ask the question, but the reality is that's based on you know, you know, they've been it, they've been to passion, or they went to a you know, they worked a summer and served, and and all those things are wonderful, but like say, I think ministry really confirms itself in ministry. Yeah, yeah, and so and I think you know, doing the different jobs of of a of a pastor and a minister and a servant, those things kind of clarify you know.
SPEAKER_01That's right, because you get into it and you figure out either you're good at it or you're not, and either you love it or you don't, and yeah, those those things can be I think pretty pretty directive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think I think it I think it's really helped. I mean, and we've had like people that were school teachers that got their bachelor's degree and went into school teaching and then came in, quit teaching, came into the residency with us, and we have one right now that's going back to teaching. Okay, and that's not a loss for us.
SPEAKER_02No, not at all.
SPEAKER_00She's gonna be great in the classroom. She's solid spiritually, but she's also sharp enough to know you know what I can and cannot do. I don't want to get kicked out of the school district. I want to influence the lives of students, and this is a great place for me to do it. And so I you know, like say it, it's great for them and it's great for us. It's part of our deal along the way. And we we talk about calling a lot. Um speakers in, you know, once or twice a year, just to talk about calling again and just refreshing and just making sure is God calling me, or is there a church member that's calling me? You know, or my parents meant yeah, we've had some kids whose parents wanted them to be ministers, and their hearts were in the right place, but you know, that's not a calling. I meant in in the scripture, you know, God's the one who calls. And and you know, um, you know, I have to do this. Is that you know, when you really get to the place of calling, it's like I have to do this. Yeah, I can't, I can't do anything else. And if I were to do anything else, I would be disobedient to the the Holy Spirit that lives inside of me and to the gifting that God has given me and those kinds of things. And so um I say it's uh I you know, I think um I think calling takes a while to figure out and clarify. But then once I think you've kind of figured out your sweet spot, you know, and we always tell the students, you know, the 80 20 rule, there's probably 10 to 20 percent of ministry that you're not it's not gonna be your favorite thing to do. Yeah, absolutely. And it might be more than 20 percent, might be a lot more than 20 percent sometimes. You know, I mean, in a in a perfect world, you know, Lindsay wrote that. Um or Marcus Buckingham wrote that book, Strength Finders.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00And what we want, like say we want students working in their strengths, you know, and they've done testing now where people can work outside their strengths, but if they do it long enough, the rubber band pops. Yeah, you know, because it's just not they're having to act outside of themselves to do things that they weren't, you know, that wear them out. I mean, I think when you're in your sweet spot that you can physically be worn out, and yet the spirit and the the testimonies of people that you're seeing life change and people get it, you get infused on the back side of it that's you know, energy that you know that you can't get anywhere else. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, that's true. That's real. Um, John, uh kind of walk us through walk us through like your curriculum, your program. Like what what what are the kind of things you cover? How's your how's it structured? It sounds like your your students are like hired, employed, full-time, and so you probably have the opportunity to do quite a bit with them.
SPEAKER_00Well, they're they're not full-time because they're going to school. They our residency requires us they go to graduate school. Okay. And I think one of the reasons why is because we really believe, um, you know, we really believe that both are critically important. If you just get experience and you don't get theology, I think you know, you're basically you're the danger there is the the latest book kind of steering you in the wrong direction. Yeah, sure. You know, or um, and then the other the danger on the flip side is if all you do is get a classroom education in theology, then you when you get out, you speak a language that nobody understands.
SPEAKER_01This this is what happened to us back in our generation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so I think you know, looking at that, you want you having both at the same time is like I say, you you um you get a solid foundation, you know, that's not gonna go away, you know, and in fundamentals of theology and scripture, uh and you know, just the the essentials. And then you get um you get practical ministry and you get the covering of a of a somebody that's older than you and helping you, you know, you help them make decisions, but they also tell you, you know, I did what you're just talking about, your great idea, and it almost got me fired. Did get me fired, you know. Uh or you didn't think through this fully to, you know, there was there were little details that you left out that were gonna be you were gonna have a problem. So I think the greatest example of that, I we were interviewing a kid about a year ago, and he was trying to decide whether to take a full-time job as a youth pastor in East Texas or come to work in our residency. Well, he went to work as the student minister in East Texas, okay, and he had no experience of any kind, and there was nobody on that staff that was going to teach him student ministry. Okay. I mean, they were just gonna kind of throw him the handbook and you know, which is kind of how it was when we were I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01It was like buy something that Doug Fields published and then you know, do the best you can.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, you know, and my youth pastor said, act like you know what you're doing, okay? Even when you didn't, but um uh but I saw him at a at a career fair the other day and he was working for an uh HR organization, and I asked him what happened, and he said, I got fired. Wow, and he said, Well, I didn't, you know, he didn't do a a fatal flaw, but he just you know a judgment thing that yeah, you know, with students you can't do. Yeah, and so that's right. That's right. So I think, like say, if you'd been working for somebody that was seasoned and uh and a teacher, then you learn. Those things. You know, there's a reason why we don't do that. And there's a reason why we do do this. And so I think that's the the value of a residency and just talking through ideas. I mean, if the residents have changed our church because with ideas and with uh you know improvements to things that we do. So it's been amazing, you know. Uh, and they think, you know, they're so young, they think about the world so differently than I do or you did. Yeah, they just do. And so it really helps us, you know.
SPEAKER_01Uh I actually think that's really important because we're sitting on top of not just a generational change, but you know, digital technology has affected so many aspects of human life. And so, in the same way that um how we processed all matters of faith before and after movable type and the Protestant Reformation, all this kind of thing, we went from a story image-based kind of Christianity in the high middle ages to a text-based. Well, now we're moving on to this post-textual kind of thing. And like, you know, I grew up reading books, man. I don't know how to, I don't know how to figure out discipleship as a digital native because I'm not one. I'm just, you know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to learn this. And so, so it's so good to have people with emerging leadership energy like that to kind of help shape the ministry, but at the same time, to be guided by the wisdom. And like this, this is the logic of doing church, church-based residencies.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I mean, it's just, I mean, it is the secret sauce, the both. Yeah. You know, that um, so I I think, and like for us, you asked about kind of our the track that we run on. Yeah, so obviously, a resident's getting the leadership and spiritual training from our senior pastor and from the staff members that they're working with. And you know, some I think some people are one of the questions I'm always asked is how many residents should we get? Which is kind of a funny question. Yeah, I mean, because a lot of places what can you afford, but I I think the bigger question is how many staff members do you have that you would like to replicate? Oh, that's good. That's good. Because the deal is if you have a staff member, maybe they're really, really good at what they do, but you wouldn't want to replicate them, you know. That's not a that probably sounds terrible, but it's just you know, we want I mean the residents, they it has to have value for them as well, or they're gonna leave.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's right. You you can't just stack lots of people to do, you know, the ministry grunt work without investment.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Because like one of the things that we found is as our program has grown, we have to work hard to keep the personal touch because the shaping of a life is really, it's really gotta be one-on-one. Totally. Yeah, one way or another.
SPEAKER_00It has to be, and so that's where you know, at some point, you know, I mean it may sound great. I mean, like, we have 25 residents, which is a ton.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00We also have a large staff, but the the staff, Pastor Jarrett, right, he disciples us spiritually, disciples Pastor Jeff, our executive pastor, he disciples us spiritually in like leadership and like um and like you know, the um the nuts and bolts of ministry. And so we we already the residents are in that bubble with all of us to learn all those things. And then the things that we add, they're going and they're going to seminary.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00So they have to go to at least six hours a semester. Some most can do more than that. Okay. Um, but and then on top of that, we have uh once a month we get all the residents together and we talk to them about life. And we talk to them. I meant I'm looking at a you know, our kind of our our track that we run on. Like Pat Jerry, our pastor, comes and talks about leadership and personal holiness. Um, I think um we we're a very multicultural church, and so our every year our Spanish pastor comes in and talks about some of the nuances of multicultural and and the fact that this generation is either they're gonna learn multicultural or it's gonna or they're gonna get left behind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, everything's multicultural, so one way or another.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, we we had a speaker come in and talk to us about calling and navigating postmodernism because we are there, it's not just we don't need to go to a country like go to England and find out postmodernism, it's in our neighborhoods. Um you know, we had a guy come in and talk about overcoming comparison and understanding calling. Uh you know, I had our exec pastor come in and talk about 10 things I wish I knew going into ministry. I wish I had known. Um stewarding relationships and dealing with toxicity, like toxic relationships. Um, talked about humility, and we talked you probably love that classic book we do. I think most of us read it around Christmas time, The Tale of Three Kings, and just that um learning your city. We had a missions church planner come in and talked about learning your city. Um you know, we talked about calling versus job, you know, with with ministry kids, expectations, uh, servanthood, spiritual community. Um we had a professor from SMU come and talk about conflict resolution. Okay, navigate that in the church, you're gonna probably gonna burn your britches or you're gonna damage somebody, you know, in the church.
SPEAKER_01Uh John, I I have a couple questions rising as you're talking through this. So um, so they're all in some kind of seminary program. Are they all at the same school or doing the same thing, or is it kind of up to them?
SPEAKER_00It's really up to them. I mean, they've got to get it approved by us. Okay. But, you know, different ones, like we have kids from Liberty, and so they have a tendency to go to Liberty's graduate school, which is totally great. The Rawling School of Theology is amazing. Yeah. Um we have some kids in Midwestern because of family ties or the church they grew up in. Right. Um, we have students that are at DBUs, they don't have a graduate school of theology, they have a graduate school of leadership. Okay. Okay. We've just added a deal here at the Lanier Library, which we had the benefit of accessing here at Champion Forest, and other people that are close could access it as well. But they have a um certificate program in ministry and theology. So the residents have access to that. It's inexpensive. Uh it's 12 classes. Um, so there's a lot that they have available to them. We have we have um relationships, some of the seminaries will give three to six hours of credit for being in our residency because you know, two or three of the classes they would normally teach in the seminary, they're getting here. Yeah, you know, they tell they give us materials so that we make sure we go over the necessary things for their accreditation and everything else.
SPEAKER_03Right, right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so they can um we've talked about them all going to the same place, it might help a little bit, but we do think the variety is helping us as well. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure it does.
SPEAKER_01It's just a mixture, so and then most of your students are they coming in from outside of Champion Forest, or are any of them kind of bubbling up from within?
SPEAKER_00Um, probably more now. I would say three or four maybe bubble up from within.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00But one of the things that's been beautiful for us, um, because of our relationships like with Liberty, with um Cedarville University in Ohio.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um we've got I think six students from Ohio. We have a form we're fixing to walk, we're walking some new territory right now. We're fixing to hire a graduate student, foreign exchange student from China that was at Cedarville. And so we're jumping through the hoops with the government and our one visas. And because we do think this will add something, an international flair to the residency, but also we want to train some partners and send them back to our partners. Yeah, send some of their young, you know, uh some of their young guns, train them here, send them back to where they to go do ministry at their local churches where they're prepared and they've been, you know, they've been trained well, they've gotten a theological education. So we're trying that. So we have kids from about eight different states. Okay. Um, which the variety's awesome. Like we have a kid in Texas that's here from uh one of the wives is from New Jersey, one of the one of the residents is from uh Philadelphia, you know, which uh so it's been really good.
SPEAKER_01Um now, how long are they in residency with you? Is that is it like a one-year, two year, or is it sort of an open kind of thing? How does how does that work?
SPEAKER_00Well, we we tell them it's a two-year residency, okay. Okay, but what we do is the first year they have to sign a contract for a year. They can't they can't leave, okay. Like we've had some that a church was wanting to hire them, and we won't let them leave because we we put so much, we invest so much into them that we want them to finish the first year. Okay. If they really love it and we really love them, then we let we invite them to stay for a second year. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00We've had three that chose one is going to be a youth pastor at his home church, and he's been here with a year with us. One's going back to the classroom, and then um one doesn't feel feels like you know, they figured out this is not my calling. So that's it, that's a good thing. Figured out now is less than 10 years from now. So yeah, 100%. But the second year, there's more flexibility, you don't sign a contract. If God opens the door through either us and relationships that we have with some of the partners that we have missionally, you know, with uh um SALT Company, the church network, folks. We love those folks, and we'd love to send as many of our residents there as we possibly could because they're on college campuses, it's just an absolute thing. But um, like we had a church in Umble that sent their best guy to us out of college, and he stayed with us a year and a half, and they just hired him back. Okay, it's awesome.
SPEAKER_01So that's great, that's great. So it sounds like people come in mostly from outside, and then you're deploying them wherever God's gonna send them.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we have we have we have church plants that we've helped start, and we're gonna send them there some. We've hired about 10 of the 50 that have been in the program since we started. We're about on generation number five. Okay. That starts in August. We've hired about 10. And we could have hired more, but that's financially, obviously, we have to have the finances to do that. We've hired 10 out of the 50 on campus, and and we tell the students if you're awesome, there's a possibility we'd like for you to, it's kind of like a farm system. Yeah, and either you're gonna come work for us or you're gonna come work for somebody that knows us. And so we help them, we help them find jobs coming out of their residency. I mean, everything. We've got a financial guy that'll sit down with them. I'll sit down with them, talk about their interviews and what questions they need to ask. We usually take a look at all of their uh offer letters from the church that's trying to hire them or the organization that's trying to hire, and try to train them, you know, to compare apples to apples and to look for things and what's on here, what's not on here, you know, that needs to be. You know, like we had a we had a student that just was they were ready to hire him, and he hadn't finished his graduate studies. And he said, What do I do? And I said, You need to ask. So it's stuff like that where we are a value add to helping to raise these students, but to get, you know, like you've got to finish your degree, you know, because if you don't do it young, um you know, get master's and doctoral degrees when you have two or three or four kids, or you have full-time ministry and a you know, a growing church, it's it's hard. It's a challenge.
SPEAKER_01It is a challenge. Um let me ask a question about financials. Is are the are your residents paid like straight out of church budget or are they doing any fundraising? Like how how how do the financials work?
SPEAKER_00And I know every residency is different. Yeah, and I'll I will admit to you that um we we have a foundation that pays for about 90% of the residency.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00We have a foundation, so the students get a $20,000 stipend per year. Okay, the foundation's amazing, and they obviously believe in what we're doing. You know, they're putting money where their mouth is about that. Yeah, and then the church, people in the church, we have a designated fund in the church that people can give to the residency because people in the church see the value and the benefit of this, nice, and so they invest in it as well, okay. And so um, so they have a twenty thousand dollar salary, and then we give them a five thousand dollar stipend for school. Okay, because we we don't want them to go into more debt, right? A lot of them that come to us have debt, and so yeah, and and you know what that's like from the standpoint and and folks know this, but I mean that college debt, you know, it's like everything during college is free, but you know, it's not. I mean it's not. We talked to the residents this week about some money stuff, and I go, you know, a credit card makes you think that everything's free. You took it home, and it, you know, your wallet's still as big as it was before, but then 30 days later, but you pay and you gotta, and then you pay some extra. And so um, so we don't, and then we give through the missions ministry at the church, we give them fifteen hundred dollars a piece to go on a mission trip every year. Okay, good. Because we we think they're transformational.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, I I love the sense, like from all these angles, it's clear that you guys see what you're doing as an investment, and like you know, monetarily, you're like, Yeah, we are investing in them, which is great.
SPEAKER_00So, and I and I think like even the mission trip stipend, one of our contentions is if you don't get out of this country every three or four years, you have this bubble mentality in the world. Yeah, I mean, we're not the center of the known universe anymore. Okay, I love that I'm an American and I love that I I have the privilege and the grace of God to live in America. But the other deal is God's working all over the world, and you can see it, you know. Um, so you know, yeah, it's been a process of kind of looking through all those things, but yes, we make an investment in them, but because we make such an investment in them, we expect a lot out of them. So, um, and and without apology, you know, we we talk about work hard, play hard. They get two, they're not full-time employees, but they get two weeks of vacation every year, okay, just because we want them to stay fresh, and then because they're from all over the country, at Christmas, we give them two weeks off to go home to wherever they're happening. So, um, so and that seems to have worked great to where you know they're not homesick. Of course, these are not of the age where they're gonna. I mean, I guess I mean some of them do get homesick, but um, you know, they're they're ready to take next steps, and you know.
SPEAKER_01That's good, man. Um all right. Let's uh let's shift to kind of your role as residency leader. Tell us one of one or two of kind of the lessons you've learned in the five years you've been running this.
SPEAKER_00Um well, so so the residents have two bosses. They're their um supervisor, yeah that oversees their ministry in the particular field that they're called to. Right. We have worship, students, children, missions.
SPEAKER_01So they're doing ministry work in those areas under the supervision of those pastors, and that's kind of kind of the stuff that you're getting out of them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so I don't really see them uh if they're not working, like I have missions residents that work for me, right? But the other ones, I don't, and they're on a different campus. I mean, you you face this family church, you know. So I will every once in a while go over to that campus just to watch, see them, and check on them and stuff like that. And then once a month we all get together, and like and then we have we have staff chapel once a month, which is awesome, and everybody comes together for that. It's fantastic, and you know, um, but um so we we do work them really, really hard. Um, but I think um my role is they they call me Father John, so I'm like the dad. You're the dad of the residency, which means you know, if they're not cutting it, you know, I'm the one that's gonna have a hard one-on-one talk with them, or one-on-two if it's a girl, um, about hey, this has got to get better, you know, or you know, hey, you need to grow up, you know. I'm the tough love kind of guy. Everybody else gets to be. Although in the different areas, one of the things I love about Champion Force is is um we we we have one of our values is that we are gonna be authentic. And so ongoing conflict doesn't happen around here. Just absolutely doesn't. Because I mean people on staff probably think we love conflict. We don't. But if you if you we don't love conflict at all, so we want to get it over with as fast as we can, right? So let's get in a room and figure out okay, did we do something wrong? Did you do something wrong? Are we missing something? Do we have a blind spot about something? And so, you know, I tell the residents, you know, if if you've done something wrong, you will know about it immediately. And that's not a terrible thing. It's just you won't, you know, walking on eggshells around people wondering, okay, what's going on? No, you know, is somebody displeased with what I'm doing. So feedback is a gift, man. Yeah, so so my job is to be a a dad, and then also like say to walk them through from the standpoint of I think the their supervisors help them, but like my job is I kind of I recruit them, and then my job is to help train them, and then my other job is to help send them off to good places where they're gonna have healthy ministries. And because you know, um just to make sure that they're not going to a church that's got some history, yeah, or um, or there's some things that are not that's so helpful. So just and you know, that has a healthy leadership structure, you know, that doesn't have a narcissist for a senior pastor or or doesn't deal with conflict, and so everybody's walking on eggshells all the time, you know, and it's like you know, the so I so my job's kind of a parenting kind of job, but also trying to get the most out of them, you know, to challenge them. Hey, you know, and we do have talks about calling and how's it going, and so we'll have a meet, we have a lot of short 10, 15, 20 minute meetings. My door is always open for the residents. Uh like they have to come in here to our my office to get their school paid for. Uh, we don't pay them to go to school, we pay the school for them to go to school. Yeah, right. So um, so we make sure that money's used properly. Yeah, so um, but I you know, like I say, it's just like having 25 kids who I love.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And if I didn't love, if I don't love them, then who's to blame for that? Because I'm the one that hired them. Yeah. So it's kind of a good thing, except it's kind of like having children, though. You know, the one that you have the most difficult one is the one that's most like you. And so it's like looking in a mirror without a mirror. But I love what I get to do. I really do. I um, you know, we take seriously that we are training the next generation. Amen. And then I keep up with the kids. That are like we have kids in uh Sarasota, Florida. We have missionaries in Canada. There were residents, missionaries in Canada and Japan fixing to go to fixing to go to Indonesia. So I, you know, one of my jobs is to keep up with them. It's not like, hey, we'll see you in heaven. Um that's not my job. So, right, right.
SPEAKER_01Um, well, one of the purposes of us doing this podcast is so that people who are pastors who are thinking about starting up residency leadership development um can kind of hear how it's being fleshed out in churches of different sizes with different models, that kind of thing. Um any advice you would give to somebody who's sitting in that seat, they're sort of scratching their head, figuring out how we can do residency, um, wondering whether they have the time, whether wondering whether it's worth the effort. Um, speak speak to those folks uh for a minute.
SPEAKER_00Well, I meant if we really take true to the calling of equipping the saints for the work of the ministry, this is not really optional for us. I think, you know, and like the deal about raising somebody to take your job, I mean, that's kingdom stuff. We're all interim pastors, man. Yeah. And so I think, you know, I think you're you're doing your church a disservice if you're not trying to help raise up people in the church that are feeling called to ministry. You all do a great job of this with folks that are even with older folks, you know, and um, and so it's it's kind of beautiful, but the deal for us is this is not like a side hustle for us. Right. I mean, this is in our DNA now, it's gonna, it's not gonna go away. I mean, we've created a it's kind of like we've created an appetite for this within the church because the church sees it, you know. That's good. Uh they see these kids coming up. Like one of the guys, the guy that was one of the first resident is now running our young adult ministry. Okay, and it's I meant it's killer. It's I meant they're baptizing a hundred young adults a year, yeah, maybe more. And so, and and they've got a problem, they have a gathering that's you know, was was 30 before he when he got here, and it's three to four hundred now. Wow, and so the church sees, you know, hey, he's and I, you know, like I would tell the church, he's one of our kids. So the is like a father, it's like this is the greatest thing ever. We were faithful and we passed it on to faithful men who are able to teach others also.
SPEAKER_01Amen.
SPEAKER_00This is like I say, so I think you know, I think try one or two. Yeah, you know, you know, we told the first class the first three, you're guinea pigs. We're not gonna lie to you. We don't know exactly what we're doing. We we kind of know what we're doing, but we don't know exactly what we're doing. Jarrett's dissertation was our manual when we first got started, okay, and most of it still is our manual. You know, we've changed a few things. Um we're just doing a rewrite right now with just changing some things. And I actually had the residents look through the manual to tell me what in this manual do we not practice. So let's get it out of here. Wow. So and the residents did that, and they you know, they put post-notes on every page, and we we've we we responded to every single one, we didn't leave it like it was. So I think, you know, like I say, I think I think it's a kind of joy in the church to raise your own. It's such a glorious and beautiful thing. Because, you know, like me, I'm I'm about to retire, but I've I've got kids all over the place. It's I mean, it is the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01A hundred percent. You know, and I love I I love the family filter that you're using for this, the whole idea that we have spiritual mothers and fathers, and we're raising spiritual children. And when you raise kids, eventually you want them to go out and be adults and start families of their own and flourish and whatever. And I think the same's true for the church. It's like, let's raise up leaders within and see them, let's invest in them, let's see them flourish, let's see them take significant kingdom responsibilities. And the need is just so enormous.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, that's the thing that keeps me up at night. But um, but but I love your emphasis on just the joy of investment and seeing them, seeing them flourish.
SPEAKER_00Well, like people, I mean, the thing that we've seen, and we didn't plan this and we didn't even orchestrate it. You know, it's it's serendipitous in the sense of like two people that can barely walk that were youth youth workers when I was here 30 years ago. Uh-huh. Every seven weeks, the two of them were in very poor health. They drop off $25, $25 gift certificates to different restaurants. Every six or seven weeks, and the residents, they just do that for the residents because they love them. Wow. That's it. We, you know, like uh Debbie, Pastor Jarrett's wife, and my wife pour into the girls. You know, we have some guys pouring into the guys, I pour into the guys. We we get the married couples together and pour into them. So we, I mean, the deal is we want them to be great. You know, I think my kind of mission statement for my life the last 30 or 40 years is we want the use of God to raise up great men and women who are going to be great um husbands and wives and great moms and dads and great people for the kingdom. And so, like, and one of the things we talk about with the residents is who's in your wake. Your wake, you know, the back of the boat. Right? Your wake is not stuff, it's people. It's you know, and so I think like for what, and like I say, there's so many great residencies around the country, and those people are in their wake. You know, they're raising them and they're raising them to be healthy, they're raising them to be self-aware, they're raising them to meet or exceed expectations, you know. So we're doing all these things and like, you know, like beyond time, you know, uh just things that maybe um, but I mean from a missional standpoint, this generation might be the best at just saying, God, my hands are out. Where do you want me to go? Uh, you know, so I think like I said, we are we're raising kids, and we are raising, you know, the people that are gonna take our places. Um, you know, I'm I'm gonna retire in a couple of years. And uh, you know, we're talking about talking through all of that stuff, but and I I will tell you, the hardest thing for me to leave is gonna be um Pastor Jarrett and Pastor Jeff and these kids, the residents. Yeah, seriously, man. Um so but the cool thing, obviously, with uh technology, we connect all the time. Yeah, so it's good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. All right. Well, um, I do want to I do want to wrap us up here, but um what's uh what's next for John and for the residency? What any uh problems you're trying to solve or things you're thinking about? What what's next for you guys?
SPEAKER_00Well, I meant uh I told you the deal about the uh checking out like international students as a possible pool. We're literally just starting to walk through that. It's a very expensive process. Uh and with especially in the United States right now, yeah. Uh you know, it's an interesting time. I think the other deal, and I've thought about the question, is you can't one of the things that will you can't get lax about recruiting. Like we are always recruiting. Okay. Because the deal is uh you set a bar and the next class has gotta, you know, so we're trying to find great people, you know. Right, right. You know, I remember Pastor Jarrett when I left out on my first recruiting trip, and he goes, you know, let's get A players. Okay, and he he didn't define that. It's just we want sharp students, they're gonna realize they're gonna be grateful for the investment investment in them, but they're also gonna they're gonna turn out to be um people that represent champion forests, and we're glad about it. You know, they wear our swag, and we're not going um, could you please cover that up? Uh well, I think that's all I like say, I think the international piece is gonna help the residency and help the church, you know, to get a picture of things. Plus, obviously, on a from a missional standpoint, we begin to invest in partners that we've had for a while and then sit train them here, send them back and raise the bar where they are and let them, you know, be a part of something really, really healthy. Because I think one of the things, if you're a part of something healthy, you don't want to work in an unhealthy place anymore. Yeah, that's right. You know better, you know.
SPEAKER_01And it positions you to be a healthy leader, to create more healthy spaces, and yeah, boy, do we need that. Like with the number of unhealthy churches that are struggling because they have bad culture, because like they've lapsed into it or whatever. Um, we we definitely want to be reproducing the right thing.
SPEAKER_00But I think always, like, do we have blind spots in the stuff that we're sharing? Is there something we're not we're missing that we, you know, and so we ask the residents, is there something that we should have talked about that we did in this last year? Yeah, you know, that you feel like, you know, and some things we hit on. I meant like Pastor Jarrett when he does the orientation when the kids all get here in August. I meant, I know what he's gonna say. If you don't walk with God and spend time with Jesus and have a personal time with Christ on a regular basis, you know, you're gonna not gonna have any power to do ministry. And he's gonna tell them one of his lines, which is a great line. With purity, there is power.
SPEAKER_03That's good.
SPEAKER_00So we're gonna hit that. And so there are things that we're gonna say to every class from now till Jesus comes again. But we're also trying to figure out do we have and like like spending time. I mean, you talked about our times together where we, you know, when we listen, we're going, man, we we've got a blind spot, you know, right here that we're not hitting, you know, that we need to be really careful about. Um, so I think you know, you're always evaluating. Oh, definitely. So uh when transitions come, uh we don't want to get sloppy. But like I say, I think the the number one thing is every every class has got to be amazing. And I and please don't hear me say, not a finished product, but students that we could see that man, there's so much that God put into this student's life, and you know, the way his family raised him, the way the inst the university raised him, man, I could really see man, he's got skills and gifts, and the you know, the other he's got humility. Yeah, like when I mean we've hired we've had some kids, and you know, they're thinking, you need me, and I'm going, not really. That scares me, okay? Yeah, uh yeah. So you want, you know, I think I wrote down some things that are really pivotal for us, like we things we model and teach our leadership, work hard, play hard, follow-up and evaluation, time management, administrative excellence, equipping the saints, good pastoral ministry. We're very clear about expectations. And you know, there's been a couple times that we found out after somebody's residency, and like I had to go have a hard talk with a guy that doesn't even work here anymore, and go, Hey, your sins have found you out. Wow. And so, you know, um, but I think um, like I say, I think for us is exploring this international piece, but then it always gets back to every class is did we do our job to find the best people that we could find? You know, did we interview well? Like we're fixing to redo our whole process about all of that.
SPEAKER_01We learn as we go, don't we?
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, um, I meant I meant, let's be honest, you could interview, you could get all the right vibes and everything else, and you know, they get here and they are not what they seemed. Yeah, it could happen. No process is perfect, man. And so uh, I meant thank the Lord, you know, we haven't uh even a couple of kids that flunked out of the residency because they flunked out of grad school, which is hard to do. Um, but even one of those I just recommended, and he just got a job at his doing his student ministry at a church because he's he learned. I mean he grew, yeah, and so we've stayed really close. Uh I did his premarital counseling, and I'm the guy that fired it. Actually, he fired himself, but I just I just did what he asked for. So um, but I I think um like I say if you're gonna have a residency, it's everything, you know, it's that old cliche, and I don't know where who it was, but everything rises and falls with leadership. If you don't hire leaders, you're dead. You just don't. That's good. And these are if you're gonna hire a resident, you're trying you're hiring a leader or a potential leader, and so you gotta see things in them. You know, God's gotta, you know, we pray God give us Holy Spirit eyes. Amen. But you know, I don't want to hire Saul because he's tall and pretty, you know, and you know, he's a great warrior. That's right. That's right. You know, I in fact, I think one trip I was going on, Jarrett called me and said, Find the Davids. Yeah. You know, the overlooked ones out taking care of the sheep. Yeah, yeah. And so and I would say to everybody, be careful there. Yeah, you know, because I think you might miss somebody. Um you might miss somebody because you know, we don't this is not a pretty contest, you know. So um, so be careful.
SPEAKER_01So that's great, man. Well, uh, John, we're out of time for now, but uh really appreciate you taking time to have this conversation and to encourage us and let us know all all that you're doing and all that you're learning. So uh keep it up, man. We mark thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Keep cranking on it. Yeah, let's uh keep sharpening each other. That's a glorious and wonderful thing. And if we uh we gotta stay learning, you know. I think one of the verses in the living Bible says, if you stop learning, you forget what you already know. And I believe that to be true. So thanks for pushing us. Okay, I appreciate your leading. Okay, thank you, brother. Thanks.
SPEAKER_01If this podcast is helping you, please let us know. We've recorded this first season as a trial run, and your feedback will help us to know how to shape it in days ahead. You can send me a quick email at residency at gofamilychurch.org. I'd love to hear what you think. Second, if you want to get your residency started at your church, we want to help. We've created a church residency starter kit with resources, articles, checklists, including a couple of curriculum options, all free to you. Follow the link in the show notes and we'll send it right over. There's no hidden sales, no subscription. We just want to help. Finally, for churches in SBC, Custom Linux and I will be leading a residency builder event in Jacksonville, Florida on September 29th and 30th of 2026. Bring a couple of key leaders from your church, and you'll go home with a blueprint for residency customized to your church, your vision, and your values. We'd love to see you there, but space is limited, so follow the link in the show notes for more information and sign up today. Thanks for joining us today. We'll see you next time.