Possession - The Real Life Exocism You've Never Heard Of

This week, Xander & Stone dive into one of the most chilling and controversial cases in paranormal history: the alleged demonic possession of Emma Schmidt. Though largely forgotten today, her extraordinary story inspired some of the most famous books and films ever made about possession and exorcism.

Was Emma truly possessed by dark supernatural forces, or was she suffering from a severe mental health condition that was misunderstood in her time?

Join us as we explore the evidence, the history, and the enduring mystery behind this remarkable case. Then decide for yourself: demonic possession or psychological illness?

Listen now and let us know what you think. We'd love to hear your theories!

IG: xspodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to Xander and Stone, the Science and Supernatural Podcast, and thank you for taking time to treat yourself today and tune into this episode. If you're a first-time listener, that is Stone.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

And that is Xander, who is turning 29 this week from the 19th. Happy birthday, wishing you the most fantastic year of your life, filled with new beginnings, adventure, and the thrills of a lifetime.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Thank you so much. And you're quite right. I'm only turning 29. I gave up the birthdays exactly nine years ago. So I've been 29 ever since.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Wow, that was very descriptive. And you're a Scorpio. I'm fascinated that we're we're friends.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

I am. I'm a Scorpio. In fact, my partner was saying this to me the other day, just last night, in fact. He was saying that I'm a Scorpio and my Chinese zodiac is a rooster or cock. So read into that what you will. But the the combination, the combination of those two, apparently, is I was destined to be an entrepreneurial creator or creative. I'm apparently the combination of those two things. But anyway, we are together, Xander and Stone, the podcast that brings you everything from black-eyed kids to hauntings, ghosts, UFOs, crypto creatures, and everything in between. If it's out there, and it's weird, we're gonna talk about it. Stone covers the science of the supernatural and gives us the lowdown on how rational thinking explains the weird, and I bring you the fresh hot steaming pile of strange from dark corners of the supernatural. And sometimes we're a little bit amusing in the process. So, Stone, what weirdness are we going to be talking about today?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Demon possession. Yay! Just in time for my birthday. It's a theme. Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

We've been hanging on to this one. So what does science what does science have to say about demon possession?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Well, I would like to start with saying, me personally, I was very uncomfortable with this topic in case you didn't notice the resistance when I said, I thought we were doing aliens this week.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Um can I can I just point out to the listeners that you're very uncomfortable doing this topic? But when I opened the video to record today, you're wearing a set of devil horns. So it looks like you're it looks like you're coming to terms with it.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

I was I was trying to embrace it in a comedic way and to shock you. So so rarely do I get to shock you.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

You you managed to do exactly that.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Well, normally science is really oddly comforting with the topics that we cover, but I think uh my aunt actually went into labor prematurely while she was watching The Exorcist, and she had her baby two months early, and he was blind and had mental disorders. So growing up, it was always don't watch anything demonic because look what happened to your aunt.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

And so I I've I don't think I've ever watched any sort of demon possession anything other than a trailer by accident, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Okay, that I'm I'm on the complete other end of that spectrum. It is my favorite genre of movie, and fiction is absolutely my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Yeah, they scared it out of us. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, I mean, well, that that sounds reasonable enough, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Um that's that's uh good enough reason to be doing it.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

That's pretty intense.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah, so uh I I wanted to start with a little background on uh demonic possession. So demonic possession is the belief that a spirit, demon, or entity controls a person's actions. And studies of 486 different cultures said that uh 75% of them believe in spiritual entities and that they can inhabit other bodies, which I thought that was an extraordinary number. 75%. Yeah, that's pretty big. You're you're just on board. Sure, of course. No, I am.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

And the reason I'm on board with that is because um when you start looking at different cultures and different uh belief systems around the world, all of them have some sort of form of possession. Um, but uh the way that it's viewed viewed by different cultures is um, you know, yin and yang, completely like polar opposites. So it tends to be the mainstream religions like uh Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, those sorts of things that believe that demonic possession is a bad thing. And you can well, you know, when you say demonic when you say demonic possession, let me let me backtrack. It's a bad thing. Um I'm gonna backtrack, I'm gonna backtrack a moment. It's not good. Thanks for tuning in. Um, what I meant to say is that the major religions, Catholicism, Christianity, uh Protestant is Protestantism, Protest Protest how do I say that? Protestants. Protestants, thank you. Um Judaism, Islam, they all believe that possession is a bad thing. But as soon as you start looking at the other religions around the world, um they there are kind of different opinions. And a lot of them believe that possession is a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Demonic possession?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Not demonic possession, possession. So not all of them define not all of them define it to be demonic possession, because not necessarily all of them believe that they are demons.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

That that's a fair point. As as we covered in in a couple of our other shows, actually. In Shiro's interview about how someone could step into someone's body for a pre-arranged agreement. So uh the symptoms that are claimed with demonic possession include missing memories, perceptual distortions, loss of sense of control, and hyper-suggestibility. And then exorcisms are done, and of course, of people of strong religious faith, and it's to rid the person of the demon that is possessing them. While many consider this relics of the dark ages exorcisms that continue to be performed, and science deems that they're performed usually on emotionally and mentally disturbed people. And another fun fact exorcism comes from the word meaning oath. So it doesn't mean to cast out, it's actually an oath to invoke a higher authority and to compel the spirit rather than to cast it out. So when people are saying they're casting out demons, actually they're invoking a higher spirit. And so that's why when, like for instance, in Christianity, they say in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, because they're they're choosing the bigger authority.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Um, the rituals to take place include reciting holy hymns, mantras, sprinkling holy water, using religious religious signs and amulets, burning incense, blowing conscias, or even causing physical discomfort like um fasting, dunking someone in water for extended periods of time, water or sleep deprivation, and slapping the skin of the possessed person.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Slapping the skin of the possessed person?

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah. Another Saturday night.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Another just sounds like a kinky weekend with the Germans. Um that's a really specific one. What other options of things do you have to slap, really? I mean, slaps are always going to come from the outside. You're always slapping the skin. Like if you if you're doing internal slapping internal slapping, that's a whole different uh genre on the internet.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

It is a little redundant. That's a fair point. That is another genre. What you're doing, I'm slapping the skin.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yeah. So dirty. So dirty.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Um brought to you by Pornho. Oh, just kidding. We want their money. While the vast majority of the science community suggests that religious bias, manipulation, and psychological maladies, including depression, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, eating disorders, and drug addiction are the root of all demonic possessions. Richard Gallagher, I was really happy to find a science person that was on board. Richard Gallagher, an Ivy League board-certified psychiatrist who teaches at Columbia University, and says, and I quote, I am a man of science, is also a consultant for exorcism. And his direct quote is there was one woman who was like 90 pounds soaking wet. She threw a Lutheran deacon deacon who was about 200 pounds across the room. That's not psychiatry, that's beyond psychiatry.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Sure. But you know, you you do also you also hear about like um, I mean, there's the there's that old adage of like, um, you know, if a child gets hit by a car and the the mother sees this, that you somehow gather the superhuman strength, and a mother can lift a full car off her child, if you know. So it might have to do with something like adrenaline um coursing through the body.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Um maybe she's demon-possessed. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Maybe maybe, maybe in the moment, you know, in the moment, like calling up his. Anyway, demons are losing for you now.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Well, and while I haven't, again, you know, binged on exorcist type movies, I have seen enough of the little clips and trailers to get the gist. And and I really had more of a sense of, you know, heads spinning around and you know, people spewing vomit and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

But after attending 50 Exorcisms during research for the book American Exorcism, Expelling Demons in the Land of Plenty, America, Michael Cunillo, I guess it's Cunillo, C-U-N-E-O, states that he never saw anything supernatural or unexplainable. No levitation, spinning heads, or demonic scratch marks suddenly appearing on anyone's faces, but many emotionally troubled people on both sides of the ritual. So he says it's Hollywood. And if there are those circumstances, they're very rare.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah. I think you know, uh, and it's something that Hollywood has completely sensationalized. And you obviously you've got to do it for good, you know, for good movies. I mean, it's the the the the most famous scenes from like the Exorcist movies, the very original Exorcist movie from the 70s, is uh when she spins her head like you know all the way around. I mean, that's just physically humanly impossible. And there's of course the very famous uh what we call the pea soup scene where she's just vomiting massive amounts of green liquid on him. Um and it's it's hugely sensationalized, but it's it's done so for the entertainment value in the movies. Um you know, exactly exactly like what what the the author there has said is that you a lot of them, a lot of authentic uh possession cases that have been recorded and documented, they don't necessarily talk about these like supernatural um events or you know, like things like uh levitation, like you said, or spinning heads, or you know, anything like that. Um it's more to do with like uh psychological, I want to say psychological warfare on the demon's part. Um and one of the stories that I'm going to tell you today um actually mentions that the the girl who was possessed knew information about people in the room that she just could not have any way of knowing. Um and she would like she would talk to the people and tell them these things about their lives and it would freak them out because there was just no way she could know that about the people in the room. Um and that's pretty creepy, you know what I mean? But it's pretty creepy. If it's the devil, um it's she's not gonna be bringing up, or that you know, the the possessed person is not gonna be bringing up the good things you've done in life, they're gonna be pulling out your darkest, nastiest, hidden secrets for all the world to hear, you know. Um possibly more scary than a levitating person.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Well, I was expecting science to totally, you know, debunk everything, but surprisingly, some of the exorcisms were actually effective. Um the power they they say that it's because of the power of suggestion and psychology. So if you believe you're possessed or someone's convinced you you're possessed, then an exorcism will cure you and you believe that, then it will because it's you know, it's just mind manipulation. Um, but there are also cases where drug-resistant cases of possession syndrome have been cured by exorcism and and uh and have been treated with psychotherapy and antipsychotic drugs, as well as the exorcism that was an effective treatment.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Exactly. Um, I think a lot of the times it goes back to things like mental health, especially when you start looking further back in time to like really, really like you said, like the dark ages where there's these, you know, document and again they're they're very documented. Um, you know, like the church bishop would maybe have written it in his whatever 15th century journal or whatever it was he was doing on a parchment somewhere in a church. Um, but they didn't understand things like schizophrenia. They didn't understand these mental disorders. It's only been in the last hundred years, maybe if if that, that we've really started to kind of come to terms with the idea of like schizoaffective disorders and multiple personalities or dis disassociative disorders or schizophrenia and these sorts of things. Um and you know, a lot of the other things that they talk about in in um cases of possession is like when somebody speaks with a voice that is not theirs, and you only have to look at like the Tibetan throat singing, where the Buddhist monks can actually activate both sets of vocal cords and can, for all intents and purposes, have two sounds coming out of their mouth at one time. But it is actually physically humanly possible to have two different voices coming out of you. Um, you know, it's uh I think there's a lot of interesting um ways that science can I wouldn't say explain away, but um can can give you know explanations for these what what otherwise seems like a very supernatural experience.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Right. Well, and I think uh for for families who believe who are very religious and believe that the exorcism will work, of course it gives them comfort. But um as with all things, the dose makes the poison. So um there were some pretty dark things, like in 2003, an autistic eight-year-old boy in Mil Milwaukee, Wisconsin was killed during an exorcism by church members who blamed an evading demon for his disability. And in 2005, a young nun in Romania died at the hands of a priest during an exorcism after being bound to a cross, gagged, and left for days without food and water. And on Christmas Day, Merry Christmas, 2010, in London, England, a 14-year-old boy named Christy Bemou was beaten and drowned to death by relatives trying to exercise an evil spirit from him.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

And one thing that that seems to often remain um like a constant with all of these different accounts of possession is that the people involved were devoutly religious, uh, regardless of what the religion was, whether it was Christianity or Catholicism or Judaism or whatever it was, um, that there was an already an existing belief. And this is something, you know, people have asked me about this in the past. Like, do I believe that people can be demonically possessed? And personally, and I think we've discussed it as well. I think maybe in the sleep paralysis episode, we it came up. Um I personally don't feel that I would ever be able to be demonically possessed because it is just not part of my belief system. But at the same time, I'm not I'm not discrediting anybody who does believe that it could happen. Because if it is part of your belief system, then sure, for all intents and purposes, maybe you do believe. And if you believe anything strongly enough, right, it it becomes your truth, it becomes your reality.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Exactly. It's as true to you as if it were true to everyone. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Um so if you believe that you are possessed by a demon and that exorcism is your salvation, um, then by all means go and get an exorcism. Um, if that's what's gonna help you, go ahead and help you. If after the exorcism it's still not working, maybe it's time to see a psychiatrist.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Maybe not the type of exorcism where you're tied to a cross and drowned and starved. Yeah, that's maybe just your run-of-the-mill.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

That's like an old extreme exorcism. Yeah, just your box standard, box standard exorcism. Um, but no, I mean like something like that, you uh you know, for s for some reason when you talk about that, when you talk about people being tied to a cross um and starved of food and dunked in water, the movie Carrie comes to mind, or the Stephen King book Carrie comes to mind. Do you are you familiar with the premise? Have you seen the movie or read the book?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

I have seen the cover of the movie. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Um but the the even though she was she wasn't possessed, her mother in in the story is incredibly religious, fanatically religious. Uh crucifixes all around the uh around the house. Um when she punished Carrie, which is one of the things that actually eventually, or one of the things that the book kind of suggests activated her psychokinetic power. Shoot her. Um her mother would, when she punished her, she would lock her in a closet that was absolutely filled with crucifixes. Um and it's that sort of level of religious fanaticism that makes you think of like, okay, well, you know, if if it's a family who thinks that the kid is possessed and they're religious, fanatically religious, um, they might think that tying them to, you know, the symbol of the their faith is the solution. Um but you know, you've got to question the psychology of people who have that level of fanaticism about their religion. Um, because you're when you start to look at their religious dogma, they're actually starting to move very far away from what their what their religion says about how to conduct yourself as a decent human being. It's it's taking it to the extreme.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Um the do unto others as you'd have them do unto you seems to go out the window pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Very quickly, very quickly indeed. Yeah. Crazy stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

One one more unique thing that I thought was interesting was that uh they studied 200 students from Italy and they asked them about demon possession, and all of them were were not on board with, I mean, the large majority said no, they didn't believe in demon possession. Then they divided them into three groups, and one of the groups they told they actually gave them demon possession stories and talked about kids who had seen the demons and gave them very uh specific stories. And when they came back, that one specific group, not only did they believe in demon possession, but I think 20% let me make sure I'm telling you the truth. Yeah, 22% believed that they had actually been demon possessed at some point in their life. So not only did they believe it was possible, they actually started thinking that it had happened to them. And so just the power of suggestion, as we've talked about in probably every episode, yeah, has a huge part to play in any of the science of the supernatural.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Sure, sure. You know, this as well. It's I mean, the power, like you know, again, you just like you said, we've mentioned the power of suggestion, I think, in almost every single episode, because I think it bears a lot of weight um in influencing how people perceive events or entities or experiences that they've had that they might not necessarily explain very well. Um, but one of the other things that you mentioned a little bit earlier, and I I meant to mention it just now, is that um, you know, the completely forgot what I was gonna say. Um where was I going to be able to do that? Where was this thought going? Um yes, you you mentioned that um, you know, a a lot of the we we were talking about a lot of like r fanatical religious people or people who have a very strong belief system tend to be the people who get possessed by demons or experience a possession in some shape or form. And you know, if if it were true, like let's just assume for a moment that the devil is uh an actual existing, you know, otherworldly being that's out there and his mission is to, you know, and you pointed to the horns in your head, so it could be you. Um could be. Could be. Um but like let's just let's just assume for a moment, uh, for the sake of argument, that the devil is a legitimate being, and the mission is to inhabit the souls and destroy the souls and take the souls and do all the things that possession does. You would think it would be a far craftier plan to go and possess people who necessarily weren't terribly religious and didn't have a very strong faith because they would be such easier targets. Uh you know, like i if somebody didn't believe in possession and wasn't following Christianity and didn't believe in God and the devil, surely they would be an easier target.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Except that you I mean, I think from a Christian persp like specifically Christian perspective, uh it would be said that, well, he already has them, so he's going after the believer.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Okay, good point. Good point, good point. Um yeah, anyway, so just uh playing devil's advocates. No, that's absolutely playing the devil's advocate. How many devil references can we make? Um, that is a very good point. You but that then again, but then what that implies is like uh that the vast majority of people on earth are possessed by the devil.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Sorry, I think that's true.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

That I'm on board with me and science. Everybody's possessed science, and I say true. True. Everyone's possessed, all of you. Heathens, heathens, a lot of you.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Hell in a handbasket.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

But you know, again, it it comes back to this idea of like mental health for me, um, and that you know, it's if it if it's if it isn't a legitimate possession and you aren't being inhabited by an entity that uh, you know, it it probably has a lot to do with mental health and disassociative disorders and schizophrenia and you know um those sorts of like mental health where you have kind of identity, crisis of identity and things like that. Um one of the things that I do know that I looked at in my research as well is that in modern exorcisms now, and apparently within the last like two decades or so, the Roman Catholic Church has really put a lot of focus on training a lot more exorcists, particularly in America, because you know, hashtag America. Um I don't know why. You can ask the Pope, bash an email out to the Pope. Hashtag Hollywood get the Pope on Twitter, ask him what that's about. Um they have been training up a lot more exorcists because they believe that uh, you know, there's a a lot more demon possession happening in the modern times because people are moving away from spiritualism and spirituality and they're losing their faith, which means again it makes it a whole lot easier for the devil to, you know, grab a hold of people's souls. Um so they've set up a lot more um like training institutions. I don't know what the right word would be, training institutes for potential exorcists and priests to get their training in Rome and then they dispatch them across the world. Um you so they're from a from like a religious point of view. This is not something that the church views as something practiced from the dark ages. This is something that they still retain belief in today. And they're kind of ramping it up a little bit, which I think maybe should give us all a bit of pause for concern.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

If the Pope says that there's lots of demons, then you know, I always wanted to be Mary in a Christmas place. I always got passed over. I think I was such an obvious choice for Mary, but nonetheless when I was uh in college, I auditioned again for Mary, and instead I was cast, I kid you not, as a demon. And could it be the horns? Is it the horns? Yeah, well, I didn't I didn't even have the horns, but I did have to wear like this black veil. Okay. And the man who played Jesus, uh, he he actually looked like the stereo stereotypical Jesus, you know, that they exactly like him. And he was hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

So he was wearing sandals is basically what you're saying. A dude in sandals.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

You know, but um, in between takes, we would stand over the side and he would make me do um, this is a side note, he would make me do a Star Wars impression and I do the help me, Obi-Wan, you're my only hope. So I was I was making Jesus laugh in between. But his wife had said at one point that she had prayed for the veil to be lifted because she wanted to see all activity.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

And she said that she had about a five-minute window in church and she saw men being hung by their um ties and uh and claws going down the back of people, and and she it was such a vivid description. And she said, and I asked God to shut the veil because I could I couldn't handle it. I just got chills even telling the story because that was totally freaked me out. Just the idea of that, and honestly, she was seemingly a very stable person. Yeah. So that was really unnerving to hear it from her because she had never said anything like that. And she said she had this five-minute window, and just the idea of these neckties being lynching the men in church. That was pretty awful.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

That's yeah, that that's a lot. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

And you know, see, I don't need to watch the movies, I just talk to people.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Go through your regular day.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Um people just tell me stories. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

I love I love your little quote there of about making Jesus laugh in between. Somebody put that on a shirt, please. Like that's another that's going in the merchandise store. Stone, making Jesus laugh in between.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

They had to keep playing. Well, it's kind of hilarious because they had to keep pulling me away from him because it would get ready to be the take and I'd be like cracking him up and so they're pulling the demon away from Jesus. So there was a lot of poetry there.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Amusing Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Um I wanted to be Mary. It wasn't my fault.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Uh well, I hope one day you get cast in as Mary. I'm I'm sure, I'm sure your day will come. I'm sure your day will come.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

I think I'm a little past that window, but I I always got cast.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

I always got cast as the wise man. Um, one or one of the wise men. My big debut, okay. So my big debut into theater and the performing arts. And I actually even remember the moment, even though I must have been five or six, not even not even six years old yet. I must have been four or five years old. Um, it was at my pre-K and they were doing their little Christmas nativity around the end of the year, and I got cast as one of the wise men, as usual. And it's, you know, I mean, I I still to this day I roll my eyes about it because when you're cast as a wise man, you're like, okay, somebody get me the tea towel and the bit of rope so I can look like I'm wearing one of those head scarves. You know what I mean? It was always the damn kitchen tea towel on your head with a bit of rope.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Um my go-to wise man.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

You know, exactly. My go-to wise man costume stuff. It's in the kitchen. Um but I I I got I got I got asked to sing a solo. I had to sing the first Noel all by myself. And I remember the moment. I remember the moment, and this is my first solo, you know, my first solo of many. Um, but I remember the moment of standing up in front of all the parents who were there watching, and I just remember that single snapshot. And like we were obviously inside our pre-K classroom, and all the lights had been dimmed, so that you know it creates the ambiance of theatre. Um and I just remember looking, I remember looking out and just seeing, and I can't remember the details of people's faces and all those things, but I remember looking out and seeing all these like adults in front of me, and that was my big debut, and I I haven't stopped ever since. Um the first Noel.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

And I was a demon. How did I?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

And you were a demon, yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

What a total twist.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Stupid demon. Do they still do things like nativity plays in schools these days? Is that still a thing that happens?

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Not in public school.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah, I don't think they're allowed to do those anymore, are they?

SPEAKER_01 26:42

My son went to private school and he had he had all of those plays growing up.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

So I used to, uh, when when I was working at as the the supervisor at the kindergarten here, um, again, just around Christmas time, um, they do kind of they allude to things like nativity shows here in China, but of course, China not being a Christian nation, um, in fact, having no religion, it's not something that happens in many schools. Um, but they one of the kindergartens that I was overseeing, um, they one of the classes had decided, no, sorry, it was Easter, it was Easter time. Uh, one of the classes had decided that they were going to do the Easter story. And the teacher of that class, um, he was uh from Pakistan, and I walked in on one of the rehearsals just to see what they were doing with their kids. And I had to put I had to I had to call the whole thing. I had to like I had to completely just veto the whole thing because the teacher from Pakistan was wearing the dish towel on his head and carrying a broken cross up through the classroom. They were about to do a freaking crucifixion in a kindergarten. I was like, no, absolutely stopping this. It's not happening. Um, this is not happening. Anyway, um I was like, can't you guys just paint eggs or something? Can't you do an Easter egg hunt? Do we have to do a live freaking crucifixion in a kindergarten? Everyone's going down for this. Everyone. So I kiboshed a crucifixion. Put that on my resume. Veto the crucifixion. Uh wise man, my ass.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

You know.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

But I want to I want to tell the the listeners about a big goal that we have. So our big goal to end 2020 off with a nice big positive bang, because Lord knows we all need one, need one. Um, our goal is to get our podcast onto the top 50 list done by podcast magazine. And to do that, we need the help of our listeners. Uh so the awesome part about the podcast magazine top 50 is that it's not it's not done by industry, you know, big wigs or these random anonymous faces sitting in a boardroom in Hollywood somewhere deciding who the top 50 podcasts are. Fuck you, Joe Rogan. Um, the awesome part is that it's it's done. I'm joking, Joe. You can have me on the podcast and we can make out. Make up. I mean, make up. I am not making out with Joe Rogan. No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I'm not. I don't want to. It's dirty. Uh the awesome part is that the votes come from the listeners, and that's how we will get onto the top 50. So the listener votes really, really do matter. All you have to do is click the link in our show notes to go to the top uh the podcast magazine top 50 and vote for stand fuck. I fucked the whole thing up, didn't I?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

That was keep going, keep going. Okay, so all you have to do is go onto the show note link for the podcast magazine top 50 and vote for Xander and Stone Podcast. And then you'll see that you have to enter our host names as well. So again, just write Xander and Stone. It really couldn't be any easier. Uh, super simple. Show notes, click link, write Xander and Stone Podcast, hosted by Xander and Stone. And then there are another two options as well. So you get to vote for three different podcasts. Obviously, we want you to vote for us as the first one. Um, and then you can vote for your second favorite podcast, which if that if you if we are your first, second, and third favorite podcast, which you know it could happen, um, then go ahead and vote for us three times on the same on the same thread. Um, but otherwise vote for your other two uh favorite podcasts. I do recommend uh the Paranormal Sun podcast, which is a very good one. Um, give him a vote as well. His name is JT, give it a listen too. And I also recommend the Parunity podcast, hosted by Brandon, which is also a very good podcast. So there's three three that you can vote for. Uh but it would mean so much to us if we could get onto even if we were number 50, right, Stone? Like I would be so happy with number 50. Not number 51, number 50. I would just I just want to be on the damn list.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Right. If you can't remember the other two, it's just Sander and Stone, all three. And and to be clear, again, Xander's name begins with an X.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

With an X, so X-A-N-D-E-R. No, no Z. No Z and Zander. No Z and Xander. Um Yeah, so if you could vote for us, that would be super, super awesome. Um, and you can share the link with your friends, get other friends to vote for us as well. I just want to get onto that list. I just need to finish 2020 off with a like with a positive note, you know what I mean? It's been such a hard damn year. Uh so for you. For me. Specifically, 2020 has been all about punishing me for some reason. I don't know what that's about.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

You cancelled the crucifix in China. There we go.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

And now God is going to smite me. Um Xander for bringing us 2020.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

So appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

We have a favor to ask of our listeners. If you're enjoying listening to the Xander and Stone podcast, do us a solid and tell your friends, family, even your frenemies about the Xander and Stone Science and Supernatural podcast. We don't mind if you share the links of our episodes on social media because sharing is caring. While you're at it, hit that subscribe or follow button on your podcast app and leave us a comment and a rating. It's one of my favorite premises in horror movies and TV shows, Exorcism and Possession. And there can't be that many people on the planet except for yourself, Stone, who haven't seen or at least heard of the film, The Exorcist, and famous cases like The Exorcism of Annalise Mitchell. Uh the film, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, is based on the real life story of Annalise Mitchell, and some excellent TV shows deal with the subject. I'm not sure if season two has started. I've all but given up on watching TV at the moment uh for loads of personal reasons because I watch far too much TV. Have you ever seen the TV show called Evil? It's very good.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

I have not, but I'm a big fan of Lucifer. Lucifer, you know? Lucifer, the TV show, to be clear.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Huge fan of the devil. Um huge fan of Lucifer.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

If you're just tuning in.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

You're gonna want to rewind and go back to the beginning of that episode. Um but you know, it's actually it's damn near impossible to come by an account of possession or a well-documented exorcism that hasn't already been sensationalized by Hollywood or done a million times over to death, basically. But I did find one that I have not heard of before, um, and I have not heard of this specific person or heard any reference to them before. And for somebody like me, um, who's pretty much seen every movie and read every book about exorcism and possession, fiction and non-fiction, um, it's it's pretty rare. So I'm gonna present to you the exorcism of Emma Schmidt. And Emma Schmidt, sometimes referred to as Anna Auckland or Mary X, and these are pseudonyms that she went by because basically after this all happened, uh, she started getting a lot of attention. And obviously, you know, you don't want to be you don't want to be known as that girl who was possessed by the devil, um, because that doesn't look good on your Tinder profile. Um this is way before Tinder and profiles, though. She was born in 1882 in Switzerland, but her family later moved to America and they lived in Marathon in Wisconsin. And very little is actually known about her parents other than that the fact that they were German immigrants. Um and her mother died sometime around 1890. So if you think that she was only born in 1882, she her mother basically died while she was, you know, somewhere around her being eight years old. And of course, you know, I immediately start thinking, okay, you know, that sort of a trauma in a child's early life is going to lead to a a lot of issues later on. Um and basically Emma, Miss Schmidt, she was left in the care of her rather abusive and alcoholic father. Um and you know, whenever you read these accounts, um they kind of paint dad as a really like bad character before being abusive and alcoholic. But then at the same time, I'm like, you know, the dude lost his wife and inherited all, you know, taking care of all the children. He was probably just dealing with it in the way that he could deal with it too. Um but you know, either not that we're excusing. No, we're not. I was just gonna say, either way you cut it, obviously being abusive and alcoholic is no good. Um but from a very young age, so this, you know, young Emma Schmidt is left in the care of her father, who's said to be abusive and alcoholic. Um, but she was also left in care of her aunt Mina, um, who we'll talk about a little bit later. Um but again, tying back to what we had said earlier, Stone, um Emma Schmidt was a very devout Catholic from a very young age. And she started to exhibit some rather odd behavior around the age of 14, and you know, some might call it, you know, quote unquote signs of possession. Um she started becoming consumed by evil thoughts of smashing things like consecrated items or crucifixes or basically any holy objects. She was having uh thoughts of harming priests, um, and eventually she couldn't even bring herself to receive the Holy Communion in church. Um, so you know, pretty much anything religious or sacred kind of repulsed her. And I think, you know, in the late 1800s, early 1900s, if you're repulsed by anything religion, I think people are very quick to say, okay, possessed by the devil. Um it's kind of a bit reminiscent of like the the Salem witch trials and things like that. Um but it's it's also claimed, and this was a little bit concerning, um, it was it also claimed that she took part in again, quote unquote, unspeakable sexual acts. What sort of unspeakable sexual acts a 14-year-old is engaging in, I do not know, um, and why anybody would know about them either. Um, but I think you know, the less we think about that the better. Um unspeakable, and here we are speaking about them. Um but yeah, I think you know, maybe it's one of those things again, it's the late 1800s, early 1900s. Maybe she was like flashing her ankle at the baker boy or something like that, and it was just considered un unclean. Um but eventually soon she she couldn't go inside a church whatsoever. And she claimed that she was quote unquote being held back by hidden interior powers. So if you take all of those things into account, like she she was having thoughts of harming religious m people, priests and nuns. Um she wanted to smash her, you know, uh consecrated items. She didn't want to go inside a church, she couldn't receive communion. She was saying that, you know, um she's being held back from going into the church by these hidden powers. I would I would say, yep, that sounds pretty fucking possessed to me. I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty possessy in my book.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

It does.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

It does, yeah. We interrupt your regular programming to bring you one quick reminder. Our big goal to end off 2020 with a nice big positive bang is to get onto the podcast magazine top 50 podcasts. And to do that, we need your help. The awesome part is that it's uh the votes from listeners that will get us there. So your vote really, really counts. All you have to do is click the link in the show notes below and vote for Xander and Stone Podcast, hosted by Xander Stone and hit send. Super simple. Show notes, click the link, write Xander with an X, Xander and Stone Podcast, hosted by Xander and Stone, and hit send. It would mean so much to us, even just to make it onto that list. And we really need your votes. So be awesome and vote for Xander and Stone. On June 18th, 1912, Emma underwent an exorcism by one Father Theophilus Reisinger, a Capuchin priest originally from Bavaria, but now immigrated to the USA, and it was done by request of her concerned relatives. Father Reisinger was fast becoming one of the most, if not the most, famous exorcists in America, even though he didn't really seem to want the fame. Of course, you know, he didn't receive this infamous status because of just the one exorcism that he had done with his Emma Schmidt. Um, in total, it seems that he had done at least 22 church-approved exorcisms.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

It makes me wonder how many were not church approved. And just the row have to do to get it approved by the church. Well, I actually do know that.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

They are, it's a very specific way that you get an exorcism approved. So you first have to go to the bishop of the, you know, the parish that you're in, and the par the bishop of the archdiocese then has to assess the case. Um, and nowadays in modern exorcisms, when they're requested, um, they have to be seen by a psychiatrist to rule out all mental disorders and things like that as well. Um, but obviously back in the in the early 1900s that didn't really exist. So basically the bishop of the archdiocese would have had to have approved the exorcism, and they would have gone through they they would have done a whole lot of um evaluations to make sure that it was a proper a proper um possession.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

And then So it's like it's like the haunting episode we did, like the furnaces, uh, do they have yeah, they have to go through all sorts of things, yes, absolutely all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

And you know, I think like in the early 1900s, and this is just me making assumptions, but I think in the early 1900s there were a lot of um, and particularly women who were labelled as having that like thing called hysteria, um, which you know actually Once a month. Once a month they had hysteria, basically. Um and so they they would have to check off that it's not hysteria. Um they would have to there there would be all sorts of things that the church would have to first check for before they approved uh an exorcism. So it is actually a pretty difficult thing, apparently, to get an exorcism done. There's a lot of boxes that have to be checked. Um but you know, imagine um back in the early 1900s though, it would have had to have gone through the bishop of the archdiocese who would have probably had to have communicated all the details with Rome, and then whoever the big wig is in Rome um would then have to approve that an exorcism can be conducted by a Roman Catholic uh priest.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

I wonder what the turnaround time was for that. I mean, you gotta think you're in the middle of all of this emotionally, and you have to wait, you know, two, three, four weeks or months, months to get approval.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

A very long time, a very long time. Yeah. I mean, you know, if you're considering it in the modern time, I think you know it's good to be rigorous because they do want to rule out all these things like you know, schizophrenia and disassociative disorders. Um, but if you're if it's back in the day where you're like, well, is she possessed or is she not? Uh, you know, there weren't that many other options. Uh you know, that they what what what exactly their criteria was, I'm not, I'm not entirely sure. Um, I'm sure you know if we did a bit of digging around online, we could find out what it was. Um but yeah. But this this Father Reisinger, so he was fast becoming, like I said, one of the most famous exorcists in America, and he had conducted 22 church-approved ones. We don't know how many rogue exorcisms he had done, moonlighting exorcisms, part-time. 87. Yeah. Um, but however, this this Emma Schmidt case is actually the probably the one of the most famous ones that he had done associated to his name. Um, and there is a book that was written by a priest called uh Carl. I'm gonna I'm gonna say the the the surname the way a South African would say it, and it would be Fochel V-O-G-L. How would an American say that name? Vogel?

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Vogel.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Vogel. We'd say Fochel. Fochel. Um but uh this priest, uh Father Karl Vogel, uh in the 1930s he published the book that was uh the documented um case of Emma Schmidt as it was documented by uh Father Reisinger. And the book is called Begone Satan, and with a little bit of digging around on the internet and in archives, I actually managed to find a copy of it, um, which I will link in the show notes because it's it's pretty interesting stuff to read. Um but this the book was initially written in German, in 1935 it was later translated into English, um, and numerous fragments of it appear in both Catholic and secular publications, including Time magazine. Um so you know, if anything's gonna be legit, it's gonna go into Time magazine. Yeah. But the 1912 Exorcism of Emma Schmidt, uh, it was basically deemed successful. And with the the way that it's kind of recounted, it seems it seems like it wasn't terribly challenging as well. Like they kind of just went through the motions of the exorcism, boom, boom, boom, Satan be gone, and they were okay, everything's fine now. Um and it was deemed successful, or at least it seemed to be successful, and Father Reisinger was even quoted as saying, the demons have left the girl. What an awesome statement to be able to make at the end of something. The demons have left the girl. Um, like that's a pretty full stop at the end of that event. Uh but the little was documented concerning this initial exorcism, like I said, and uh Emma uh was not really consulted again or had any follow-up kind of spiritual guidance or anything for two decades after the initial exorcism, and that is where shit starts to get a bit hairy because in 1928, when she was about 46 years old and living in Wisconsin, things started to get a little bit demon-possessy all over again. And of course, you know there's a lot of speculation as to why the first uh exorcism didn't work, and it was Emma herself that claimed that it was a result of curses put on her by her Aunt Mina. Now I remember I said that she was in um the custody of her drunk abusive father and her aunt Mina. And her Aunt Mina, a lot of folks around town kind of regarded Aunt Mina to be a witch, and Emma said that she placed um curses on her uh and that she had put cursed herbs in her food. Um and she's and and what had happened um by 1928 is that um her mother, sorry, not her mother, her well, her mother had died, but her father and her aunt had also passed away, and Emma said that their departed souls and their departed spirits were tormenting her, and they were actually tempting and inviting the other demons. They were going, you know, the departed souls of her family were going and getting the demons and forcing the demon, the demonics into her body and um to possess her mind. And she basically seemed to be in the grip, or what she said was in the grip of this mysterious force. And she claimed that this force then again impeded her ability to pray. Um, it stopped her from going to church. And this is where all the mental health things start checking on the boxes, because she said that every day she heard voices in her head, hashtag schizophrenia, um, auditory hallucinations. She heard them whispering disgusting things to be. Her and telling her to do vile and despairing things. Now, if you go and explore a little bit about schizophrenia, those are very common symptoms of somebody being in a you know, experience a psychotic break or in psychosis if they've got schizophrenia, auditory hallucinations, constant voices, which you know uh there's loads and loads of YouTube channels that you can go and check out about people living with schizophrenia. There's a really good one called um, I think it's called Living Positively with Schizophrenia. It's hosted by a girl in Canada, and it is absolutely fascinating because uh one of the things that she says is that the voices are constantly there, but she knows that she's getting closer to a psychotic episode, or that um, you know, she needs to be a little bit more mindful about her self-care or she's slipping into psychosis because the voices change from being everyday chatter to giving her explicit instructions on things to do, and they're usually either self-harming things or harming, you know, um doing something that you otherwise wouldn't do in normal society. Um so you know, when it comes to Emma talking about hearing voices in her head, whispering disgusting things to her, telling her to do these vile, disparate things, to me it sounds a lot like schizophrenia. But Emma, being the devout Catholic, believed that it is demonic possession. And again, if that's your reality, sure, then who am I to argue? I I could be wrong. That's your truth. That is your truth. Um, and you know who am I? I'm not I'm no expert on these sorts of things. Maybe maybe everybody is possessed. Um, but so now this Father Reisinger um who was now preaching at St. Joseph's Parish in Erling in Iowa, um, they basically called him again. And they got old uh Father Reisinger on the horn. And even though it had already been two decades since his first exorcism with Emily, he pretty much now had a game plan because he had, you know, his 22 other exorcism experiences under his belt and he knew exactly what to do. Um, so Father Reisinger then asked his old friend, who's the Reverend Joseph Steiger. Why does everybody have German surnames in this story? Um, but uh Father Reisinger asked his old friend Reverend Joseph Steiger for his assistance because he wanted to perform Emma's second exorcism at uh Reverend Joseph Steiger's parish. And Father Steiger, or sorry, Reverend Steiger, was understandably hesitant at first, um, but on Father Reisinger's insistence that the location um in Erling had several advantages. Um he eventually got his buddy Father Steiger to agree. Um and the advantages basically were that like the Catholic Church had a coven, uh a convent, a coven. The Catholic Church, what is happening with my English today? The Catholic Church had a had a convent where Schmidt could stay during the exorcism process. Erling itself is quite a quiet town with only a few hundred residents, um, and it's close to Des Moines, um, so Emma could travel there very easily. And obviously, with only a few hundred uh people living in town, they could kind of keep it all on the down low and under wraps. Um, and the the seclusion of the convent basically meant that the exorcism could be done in relative secrecy and keep uh Schmidt's involvement, you know, Emma's involvement on the down low, but also keep Father Steiger's involvement on the down low. So everybody was a bit worried about their reputation during this whole demonic possession and exorcism. Um so they they also hoped that being away from home and removing her from like, you know, her home and where she was um experiencing all of these uh you know demonic influences might actually thwart the power of the demonic forces that were tormenting her. And unfortunately it seems they were pretty fucking wrong about the last one. Uh so once all the plans had been made and Emma travelled to Erling in Iowa, uh, she got there on August 18th, 1928. And it's said that when she arrived, she was almost immediately filled with rage as soon as she entered the coven convent. Covenant, why do I keep saying covenant? Um it said that she was almost immediately filled with rage once she entered the convent. Um and she said that she had this overwhelming urge to attack the nuns, and I don't know about you, but uh I get that sometimes too. No, I'm joking. Understandably understandably, she wanted to bitch smack a nun. Um no, of course not. Of course not, I know so wrong. Um I'm I'm kidding. Sometimes I just say funny shit because it's funny. Um upon entering the convent, uh, she said she had an urge to attack the nuns. And when the nuns brought her food, she immediately knew that they had blessed it. Um but raging, she refused to have any of the food and the drink that the nuns brought to her, and she proceeded to sit in her room, purring like an animal, and waiting for the arrival of this father I singer. And when Father Reisinger arrived at the train station, he was met by Father Steiger. They both set off to the convent, and they said that the car just simply refused to accelerate to sp to full speed. Um so they blamed like a lot of these things on the demonic forces. They said that the car wasn't working properly, and that was because the demons were trying to keep the father away. Um, you know, that that uh Emma could uh she didn't want to eat the blessed food, it was the demons stopping her from doing that, and of course she wanted a bitch smack a nun. Um and of course, you know, demons will do that. Um but apparently apparently this whole deal with the car and the de the demons not allowing the car to accelerate to full speed. And I mean, really, what is a what is full speed for a car in 1928? Like like five miles an hour? Um, you know, you could probably could have walked faster, Father. Um but there's a quote by him saying to uh to Father Risinger saying to Father Steiger, my dear friend, I was not wrought up about it at all. I would have been more surprised if everything had gone smoothly. Difficulties will will arise, they must be expected to arise. The devil will try his utmost to foil our plans. Hashtag dramatic. We just want to take a moment to remind all you delicious weirdos out there about our listeners' favorite host quote, merchandise. If something we said in an episode tickles your fancy, gives you the giggles, or you just straight up think it would look good in a t-shirt, send us the quote and we'll make a merchandise collection named after you. You can already go to our Redbubble store, check out the link in the show notes below, and see the Renee collection, Sneaky Culty Bastards, amongst others. There are loads of great items to choose from, from t-shirts and hoodies to mugs and tote bags, notebooks, and loads, loads more. Get your own Xander and Stone Listener merch collection named after you. Email us your favorite quote to info at xspodcast.com. Let's get that shit in a t-shirt. Uh so the first session of this exorcism started the very same day when they arrived at the convent, and uh Emma was basically and again, you know, this this comes back to the story that you told. Uh Emma was restrained on an iron bed with her clothing and her sleeves all tied down to prevent her from breaking free. I don't know about you, but I would also be pissed in that situation.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Like, you can't just be there wouldn't have to be anything else going on. I'd be upset.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

I'd be upset about that. Like, I'd also be bitching at nuns and you know, being a bit difficult to deal with. Um, but apparently the strongest nuns in the convent as well were also called in to come and help and assist with keeping her um, you know, restrained on the bed and holding her down. The weightlifting nuns. The weightlifting nuns, you know, the butch nuns. Um the chunky nun. Hashtag chunky nun. Um uh and as soon as Father Reisinger began this rite of exorcism, apparently Emma's eyes shut tightly. This is where it gets a bit like Hollywood sensationalized. Um, Emma's eyes shut tightly, and she seemed to fall into something that was akin to like uh a deep sleep, or even into something that was something uh something. How many times would you like to say something in that sentence, Sander? Um she seemed to fall into unconsciousness. Uh, but this didn't last very long, and soon things descended into total demonic mayhem. So, according to the reports from inside the convent, uh Emma freed herself from the bed and somehow, and this is again Hollywood sensationalized, somehow threw herself up high onto the wall and had to forcibly be pulled down. There's a chick clinging to the wall in a convent. That's I mean, that's very terrifying, very demon-possessy. That's super, super demon possessy. Um, I remember also, actually, well, you know, a little a little side note, um, there was a recent story, uh, I think it was in the States as well, of a young boy who was possessed and his family, um, again, assuming it was psychosis or some sort of a mental issue, took him to a hospital, and there were these these nurses who saw the kid climb up a wall backwards, like he was, you know, like going up the wall backwards, facing down to the floor, walking up the wall backwards. Um there's I've I've I've read that online as well, and there's like actual like medical professionals who who like left the room. They were like, this is far too fucking much for me. I'm getting the fuck out.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Um I would have totally been videoing it. Like, that's your YouTube viral movie right there. Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

You know, I can understand that in 1900 they couldn't have videoed it, but like why where the where the recent ones? Um, but according to the reports from inside the convent, she freed herself and she basically threw herself up onto this wall and she had to be forcibly pulled down by the butch nuns. And that's when they say that the screaming started. And they described the screaming as being animalistic, demonic, unearthly, and it apparently just echoed throughout the entire convent. And to stop the screaming, or the screaming stopped when this father Reisinger basically commanded, Silence Satan, be quiet, you infamous reprobate. I love the way this guy talks. Silence, Satan, quiet yourself, you infamous reprobate. Um, and that apparently worked. Um, that made the screaming stop. Anytime I have to deal with a screaming person, that's what I'm gonna be saying from now on. Silence! Reprobate! You infamous reprobate. Um But that basically stopped the screaming, but that's when the voices began. Um and they're saying that she was screeching and bellowing in voices that answered Father Reisinger's questions, but they answered in German, in Latin, and in English. And that's another thing that apparently people who are possessed can do is they can speak in languages that they otherwise would not know. Um, and obviously, you know, Latin wasn't terribly well. I think in the 1900s a lot of people learned Latin. Um, but people have been recorded as speaking in Aramaic, which has been a dead language for many, many, many hundreds of years. Um, or they'll speak in languages that only people in the room might understand. I know this is something about speaking in tongues as well when you speak in the Latin.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

I was thinking, yeah, speaking in tongues as well.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Yeah. Um, but so she was answering questions in German, Latin, and English. But you know, again, I don't find that too surprising because Latin would have been commonly taught in schools in those days, and um, you know, her parents are German immigrants, uh, everybody else in this story has German surnames, and she lived in America and spoke English, so there's not too much surprise in that. Um, but the voices they claimed to be multiple entities inhabiting her, and they some of the names that they included because one of the things I know this about the Catholic rite of exorcism, is one of the things that uh the priest has to do is he has to get the demon to say its name, otherwise, he cannot cast the demon out. Like you have to be really specific about who the demons are. You can't just do a general exorcism and be like, anything that's nasty, get out. Um, you have to call the demon by its name. And it's one of the things apparently that makes uh an exorcism last for a very long time is that the demon will resist saying its name so that it cannot be cast out by the higher power. But of the multiple uh entities that were inside uh Emma Schmidt, they were including Beelzebub, Judas Iscariot, which is interesting, and the spirit of uh Emma's father and aunt, and they all said that they were intent on torturing this woman. The exorcisms continued for about three months. The first round was from august eighteenth to august twenty sixth, the second round lasted from the thirteenth of September to around the twentieth, and then the last session was from december fifteenth to twenty third. Emma Schmidt continuously vomited shocking amounts of bile, and that sounds a lot like the Hollywood movie from The Exorcist, and what appeared to be chewed tobacco leaves despite the fact that she had only had very small amounts of milk and water for days since arriving at the convent. Her body became distorted and she started expanding and contracting and twisting and contorting her body, and she continued in this kind of raged state. The legion of voices that came from her delivered information about the people present at the exorcism, like I mentioned at the beginning, and it's information that Emma just could not possibly have had any prior knowledge of. The only person who apparently was be able to withstand the exhausting daily torment of exercising her was Father Risinger, and he stayed with her by her side throughout this entire ordeal. Father Steger, who was the father at the actual parish in Iowa, he was understandably regretful of agreeing to have done the exam at the parish, and when he voiced his concerns and suggested that the rituals be stopped and moved elsewhere, Father Risinger reacted with surprise, and he blamed Father Steiger's second guessing to be the work of the devil putting doubts into his head and attempting to drive a wedge between them and they had been friends for many, many years. It's reported that the demons possessing Emma also had something to say about Father Steiger's change of heart. It is said that the demons or Emma bellowed out to him, quote unquote, just wait until the end of the week, when Friday comes, then dot dot dot. And she bellowed this during one of Father Steiger's visits to her room. And that following Friday, Father Steiger, on his way to visit a sick woman, was involved in a car accident. Obviously that's a little bit creepy because it's as if the demonic entities could foresee the future, so it turns out that the demons or Emma at least got that much right. Luckily, Father Steiger survived the accident with only very minor injuries, but for the following weeks the priest said that he couldn't sleep at night. He claimed he could hear a constant scream of unearthly sounds that only stopped briefly in response to his prayer. Weeks passed and it seems like the attempts of Father Reisinger were not sufficient. The demons were still tormenting Emma. On december fifteenth it seemed like the exorcism was starting to take effect. The forces that were inhabiting Emma were losing their grip and their intensity, and at nine PM on december twenty third, nineteen twenty eight, months after her exorcism began, Emma leapt up from her bed. Of course the nuns quickly moved in to wrestle her back down, and when they went to push her onto the bed, instead Emma fell back and began softly muttering, Beelzebub, Judas, Jacob, Mina, hell, hell, hell. A few minutes later it was as if Emma had suddenly woken up, her eyes flew open, and she said in her own natural voice, quote unquote, from what a terrible burden I have been freed at last. My Jesus mercy, praised be Jesus Christ. And it seemed that Emma was herself again. She had been released from the grip of the forces that inhabited her, and the exorcism was a success. Emma went on to have a perfectly normal life, well as normal as anybody can have after an ideal like that, and it's said that she was never ever afflicted by demons ever again in her life. Father Isinger continued his work as an exorcist and a priest until his death in nineteen forty one, and the nuns that had assisted in the exorcism all requested to be transferred, which I think is also perfectly understandable. All of them were relocated within that year, and it's said that all of them took the story with them and none of them ever spoke of it again. Emma Schmidt's exorcism was meant to stay on the down low, and it might have been lost to history were it not for Reverend Carl Vogel. Reverend Vogel collected the records of the full dialogues between Father Isinger and the demons. He included the eyewitness accounts from those present at the Exorcism, and published them in the pamphlet titled Beagon Satan, which again you can find a link to the archives in the show notes. It was written in German and later in nineteen thirty five translated and published in English in a forty page document, and was printed basically to encourage those of strong faith to continue to give battle to the evil one, quote unquote. The story of the exorcism of Emma Schmidt quickly caught the media's attention, including Time magazine. There has been widespread debate over Emma Schmidt's possession and exorcism and whether it's valid or not, or whether Emma just had an acute mental illness like schizophrenia or psychosis, but the eyewitnesses swear that the account is accurate, and even Father Steiger's housekeeper is quoted as saying I was a witness to almost the whole period of the exorcism of the Erling possession case, and I can truthfully say that the facts mentioned in Begone Satan are correct. Some of the scenes were even more frightful than described in the booklet. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that the devils were present, and I will never forget the horrible scenes, vile, filthy, and dirty as long as I live. Now again, admittedly, mental illness was not very well understood at the start of the twentieth century, and was often grossly misdiagnosed or just wholly ignored and covered up. Emma had met with many doctors in the early years of her quote unquote possession, and none could find any issues with her. One of the leading specialists is even quoted as saying at the time that she was normal in the fullest sense. And perhaps one of the reasons we are so willing to believe the story of Emma Schmidt is because there is a significant lack of information denouncing it. Emma's exorcism was one of the last to be officially sanctioned by the Catholic Church. Papal records report an exorcism of a woman at the convent of the Franciscan Sisters over three separate sessions totalling twenty eight days, which pretty much mirrors the case of Emma Schmidt. So with so much secrecy surrounding the story and the only accounts coming from those who have claimed to be witnesses at the event, experts point to the case of Emma Schmidt as a valid case of demonic possession. It's also worth bearing in mind that all the eyewitnesses are members of the church, nuns and priests and clergy, so it's kinda nice to think that we should be able to at least trust their statements. Father Reisinger and Father Steiger did go through great lengths to keep the story of Emma Schmidt as quiet as possible. But still with the publication of Begone Satan, the information was eventually exposed for the world to see. The author William Peter Blatty used the story as one of his inspirations for his book The Exorcist, which was obviously later adapted into what many consider and what I definitely consider to be one of the greatest horror films of all time. Welsh film director and writer Andrew Jones brought the story of Emma Schmidt to theatres once again in 2018 with his film The Exorcism of Anna Eklund, so definitely check that one out as well. But after her second exorcism, Emma Schmidt and all of the aliases associated with her name faded from the records. But thanks to the immortality of media and the internet, Emma Schmidt's story still lives on.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

You know, uh what stood out to me when one of the many things was when they have to ask the name. I wonder if that's because in the Bible, when Jesus, like in in the New Testament, when he's casting the demons out and they say we are legion for we are many.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

Maybe, and possibly because it's easier to pick them off one by one. It's harder to get rid of a whole group if you're picking them off onto one, like you know, go for the weak ones in the herd.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

Well, if your name is Legion and you are many, there's already a ton.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

There's already a lot, you know what I mean. So you've got to sing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

And to cast them into swine, that's a lot of different demons going out of something.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Yes, that was the one where where Jesus did uh an exorcism. It was done like on the road. He was traveling somewhere and he came across a man who was possessed. Yeah, and he cast the demons into the swine, and that's one of the reasons for the city.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:28

And then you went off the cliff.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

Yes, yes, and the the pigs all ran off. I remember that, yeah. Um yeah, look, I mean, I know I know from one of the modern the modern exorcism rites, and when I say modern exorcism rites, I think they're based in like things that were written in the 1500s, but they're the rite of exorcism in the Catholic Church, they do have to call the demon by its name for them to be able to invoke the power. And I believe you know they invoke obviously the name of Jesus, they invoke the archangels, particularly the archangel Michael. Um, and it's it's not actually the priest that is responsible for casting them out, it's the invocation of the higher power, um, the Holy Ghost. And you know, this again this comes back to what we'd said earlier as well, that in in uh the mainstream religions, um, possession is seen as a very negative thing. But if you do look at like I I think it's like the Protestant church where they have a lot of people that speak in tongues, is it is it in yeah? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:18

That is That was the church I was raised in. Isn't isn't but isn't that a form of tambourine whackers and pew jumpers.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

But is isn't isn't isn't that a form of possession as well? Aren't they being possessed by the Holy Spirit?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

They are yeah, there's I guess I I haven't heard it termed as a possession, but for all intents and purposes, of course. But again, it comes back to like and you speak in different languages and and yeah, and there has to be an interpretation in order for it to be valid.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

So I think like, you know, especially with like Hollywood and mainstream media has made this idea of your quote unquote possession to be a very it's a negative thing. It's demons and bad things happen, and you get these otherworldly powers and super strength and green bile vomiting and head turning and those sorts of things. Um, but a lot of cultures and even mainstream religions do have happy possessions. Can we call them happy possessions? Positive possessions, good good possessions. Um, and you know, it comes back to like what we'd said in the the episode about being haunted. Um, you know, you're being haunted when it's an entity that you don't know or have any association to. It's not a haunting when it's your dead granny coming to visit you, then you're then it's a visitation. And it's something very similar in possession exorcism. You know, if it's the Holy Ghost, it's a wonderful thing. If it's the demon, then it's a bad thing. Um, but you know, they again when we look at other cultures from around the world, like there's the Tamil people in India, and they're said to experience possession um by these spirits called the the uh I think it's it's it's spelled P-E-Y-E. So I want to say the paya. And according to the tradition, um the spirits overwhelmingly possess specifically new brides. Um, and the the people or the entities that possess the new brides are said to be the ghosts of young men who died while they were romantically or sexually frustrated. Um and they will possess the new bride. Um, so they've got like really, really specific things for possession. Um, and then in South Africa, there's a belief that spirit possession among the uh sea bear or closer speaking people uh from the trans sky in South Africa, and the majority of them are supposedly possessed married women again. But in this case, the condition of spirit possession among them is considered to be a gift, um, and that they are then given the abilities to be able to foretell the future and those sorts of things. And then further up.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

So it's more like the Holy Spirit. It's a bit like the Holy Spirit, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

But they don't ever get possessed by anything bad, it's seen as a good thing, and there's usually a lot of ritual involved in being able to invoke these, and you you go through, you know, hours and hours of doing rituals and chanting and drum beating and all sorts of things, chewing medicinal herbs, and there's a whole lot of stuff involved in it. Um it's very ri ritualistic because the idea is that you want to be inhabited by these these uh entities, and it's usually something like inhabited by ancestors, um, because it will it will bring you the ability to foretell the future or healing abilities or things like that. But that pretty much brings us to the end of our episode about possession, and uh I hope you low key enjoyed hearing about possession today. I'm not quite sure how to say about that. Uh but Stone, do you have any shout-outs to give to any of our listeners today?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

Um, yeah, my shout-outs are going to Alejandro in LA, Milagro and Manny in Phoenix, and Martha Farah in Monterey Park, California, and she is one of our big FaceTime, I mean Facebook followers.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

Yay! Happy Facebook followers. And of course, my shout-outs for the week. Uh mine is going to go to JT, who is the host of the Paranormal Sun podcast. And there's something very special about the Paranormal Sun podcast because JT manages to find topics that you maybe otherwise haven't heard of, and he delves super deep into them. It is a really great to listen, totally binge-worthy podcast. Um, I'm going to leave the link to JT's uh The Paranormal Sun podcast in our show notes this week as well. And just to do a little bit of quick Xander and Stone podcast housekeeping, uh, we are going to be changing the day that we publish our episodes. And this is because we've done a little bit of research and we look at what the peak times are and blah blah blah boring numbers and stats. And we will be publishing our episodes on a Tuesday from now on because that seems to be the peak times when downloads happen. And of course I'm going to ask one more time, please be a total delicious weirdo, and vote for the Xander and Stone podcast, hosted by Xander and Stone, on the podcast magazine's top 50 podcasts. You'll find the link in the show notes below. So from me, Xander, it's a goodbye.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:38

And me Stone.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:39

And remember, if it's out there And it's weird, we're going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

We're going to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you want to reach out to us and tell us your story, you can go and leave us a voice note on the Xanderstone website by following the link in the show notes below. Or you can email us on info at excesspodcast.com, find us on Instagram at excesspodcast, and on Twitter at Xanderstone Ten.