WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.600 Hey Redeemer Church. 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:05.200 This is Pastor Matt Armstrong here. 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:12.720 Over the last few weeks, our church has held a couple events on Sunday evenings. 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:20.719 One dealt with the topic of grief and how we can grieve as Christians. 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:25.359 And the second one is on the topic of God and suffering. 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:31.120 The recording device for those events did not work, I'm sorry to say. 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:47.679 And so that we can have these talks online, because I promised a number of people that we would, I am going to read those talks now and so that we can put them up online. 00:00:47.920 --> 00:01:01.039 Please feel free if after listening to this, you have any questions or follow-up, please feel free to email me Matt at RedeemerMarietta.org. 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:01.679 Okay. 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:07.519 This talk is called God and Suffering. 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:24.560 And it is on the subject of asking the question, how can God be good, as the scripture teaches us, and yet this world be filled with evil and suffering? 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:37.359 Oftentimes that suffering seems meaningless, it seems unjust, especially when it happens to children or a variety of different circumstances. 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:46.719 In our church family, we've had a number of families in recent months go through some severe bouts of suffering. 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:49.599 And it raised the question for the community. 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:56.400 And so we wanted to just put some thoughts together and share them with you in the hopes that it would help. 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:00.400 And uh and so here we go. 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:12.800 The first thing I want to talk about as we broach the subject of God and suffering is uh titled permission. 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:22.879 Um I think for our church and for for any any Christian, these questions need to be welcome. 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:27.360 Uh, we need to have permission to ask these questions. 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:38.560 I think, depending on your background or personality, just thinking questions uh like the ones we just named can bring feelings of shame. 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:46.400 And we can be taught that questioning God's goodness or his justice is a sign of a lack of faith. 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:54.000 And so even though all of us, I would argue, ask these types of questions, they are they're very natural. 00:02:54.560 --> 00:03:06.000 Um oftentimes we're afraid to voice them or we intentionally stuff them down inside ourselves, don't allow ourselves to ask them because we feel like we are being bad Christians. 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:10.879 But the truth is that the Bible itself asks these questions. 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:12.479 Here's a couple examples. 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:21.919 In Psalm 13, verses one through four, the psalmist writes, How long, O Lord, will you forget me forever? 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:24.879 How long will you hide your face from me? 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:31.199 How long must I take counsel in my soul and have sorrow in my heart all the day? 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:34.879 How long shall my enemy be exalted over me? 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:43.919 Consider and answer me, O Lord my God, lift up my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death. 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:49.759 The Psalmist here comes to God with implied accusations. 00:03:50.960 --> 00:04:01.680 The Lord has forgotten me, the Lord is hiding his face from me, the Lord has left me isolated and alone during my times of need. 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:10.400 He's so overwhelmed by his sadness that he thinks that he may die, he may sleep the sleep of death. 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:20.399 In Habakkuk chapter one, the prophet Habakkuk writes this He says, O Lord, how long shall I cry for help and you will not hear? 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.800 Or cry to you violence, and you do not save? 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:27.680 Why do you make me see iniquity? 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:31.199 And why do you idly look at wrong? 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:41.600 Destruction and violence are before me, strife and contention arise, so the law is paralyzed, and justice never goes forth. 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:47.519 For the wicked surround the righteous, so justice goes forth perverted. 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:57.040 This opening passage to the book of Habakkuk is a direct challenge or charge of injustice against God. 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:07.439 And because the Lord seems not to hear Habakkuk's cry for help, he says, the law is paralyzed and justice never goes forth. 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:14.480 In fact, justice appears in Habakkuk's eyes to go forth perverted. 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:19.680 And these kind of questions aren't just limited to the Old Testament. 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:29.199 Now, the New Testament uh doesn't have passages that speak quite so directly as the Psalm we looked at or Habakkuk. 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:41.519 But there are a number of passages in the New Testament that speak to the reality of Christians experiencing suffering and undergoing uh evil in this world. 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:55.680 Uh but there is a passage in the book of Revelation, chapter six, and it's it's uh a picture of uh Christians who have died, who were martyred uh during their life for their faith. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.480 For uh it says that they were slain for the word of God and their witness. 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:02.959 And this is what they cry out to the Lord. 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:12.160 O sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth. 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:23.120 You see, even as they confess that the Lord is holy, true, and sovereign, they are crying out that justice has been delayed and awaits its needed fulfillment. 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:38.560 What I want us to see here in this first section is that these questions, these doubts, this wrestling with God and the world we live in is not a sign of a lack of faith, but quite the opposite. 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:43.600 They are evidence of a true faith seeking understanding. 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:53.120 Next, a caveat here as we again wade into these deep and difficult waters. 00:06:54.079 --> 00:07:07.040 Um where do we go once we now have the permission to ask these questions of why a good God allows evil and suffering to continue to exist in his world? 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:18.079 Well, a caveat to this, a warning as we as we ask the question, um, is that it's important to acknowledge that these are very hard questions. 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:36.480 Um, that while the Bible does lead us to doorways, I would argue, for answers and the possibility of rest and peace within this life in a fallen world, there are no easy answers or silver bullet answers. 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:47.120 If there were, then we would have all read that book long ago, and people wouldn't be continuing to write books and preach sermons on this topic. 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:49.040 But this is a perennial topic. 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:56.800 There are writings that go back before the time of Jesus, of people wrestling with this question. 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:03.279 And as with most things in real life, truth is more than intellectual ascent, right? 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.839 We don't just uh hear a right answer and everything is fine. 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:12.480 Uh in reality, we have to live in this world and live in relationship with God. 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:21.519 And I believe that like Jacob, uh Isaac's son, life with God is one of constant wrestling. 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:38.879 If you remember the story of Jacob, that he wrestled with God in the middle of the night, or with the angel of the Lord who represented God, um, God named or renamed Jacob Israel, and it's the name that the people of God took on over time. 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:43.840 And Israel means one who strives or wrestles with God. 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:57.840 And it became part of the Jewish self-understanding and a big part of the rabbinic tradition that to be the people of God means that we wrestle with God. 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:13.600 We have a relationship with him, we take him at his word, and yet at the same time we struggle to understand who he is because of the evil and suffering and the things that we experience in this world. 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:18.240 So my encouragement to us is let's wrestle. 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:21.840 Next question. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:25.360 Where do evil and sin come from? 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:39.840 The biblical story of the history of the world begins by telling us that God created everything, the heavens and the earth, all things, and he created it all very good, Genesis 131 says. 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:47.679 The first sign that something is off in creation is the introduction of the serpent who comes and lies to our first parents. 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:49.840 It deceives Eve. 00:09:50.720 --> 00:10:04.159 Eve persuades Adam, and uh the serpent persuades them to distrust God and to disobey his command to eat to not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:14.720 In the passages later that talk about the introduction of sin in the world, they are clear as to where it does and where it does not come from. 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:27.440 Romans 5 12 says, Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned. 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:42.159 Then in James chapter one, verses thirteen through fifteen, James writes, Let no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:47.360 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:56.720 Then desire when it can has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown, brings forth death. 00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:03.279 So these two passages, among others, tell us that sin came into the world through Adam. 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:11.919 Sin did not exist, uh sin and death did not exist in God's creation until the first disobedience of our parents. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:23.519 And then James says explicitly in this section, in chapter one, that God cannot be tempted by evil, God does not do evil, nor does God tempt us to do evil. 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:28.320 God wants his people to always do well. 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:46.320 And so the Bible tells us that evil and suffering that comes into the world is not God's doing, but it is actually the result of our own actions as human beings that we brought sin into the world. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:48.879 Now, we can wrestle with these questions. 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:52.080 We can ask if we find them personally satisfying. 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:56.639 And they may lead to other questions like, where did the serpent come from? 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:04.080 And later scripture tells us that the serpent was actually Satan disguised in another form. 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:07.679 But again, we can ask the question, where did Satan come from? 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:16.879 Now, this is the first of many places in this discussion where we need to ask this question: Will I take God at his word? 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:27.919 You see, Scripture does speak to these questions, these questions of justice and the goodness of God and the suffering we and our loved ones experience in this world. 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:34.000 But Scripture does not connect all the dots or give us all the answers. 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:47.840 In fact, Deuteronomy 29-29, one of my favorite verses in the Bible because of what it says, uh, tells us that the secret things belong to the Lord, but the things that are revealed belong to us. 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.480 And the point of that is that God tells us many true things. 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:59.039 He's revealed many things to us, many wonderful and good things, but he has not revealed everything. 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:10.320 And so it's a constant question for God's people to ask Will we receive and will we submit to God's word, God's scriptures? 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:15.039 Because the scriptures tell us that God is not the author of evil. 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:20.799 Uh, that in fact that rests at our own feet. 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:29.360 We do know that God allows evil, sin, and suffering into the world, uh, but the scriptures do not tell us why. 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:33.519 Next section. 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:38.080 Evil and suffering are not necessarily evidence against God. 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:50.240 Now, these this this thought is for those who ask the question uh how can God exist and be good if there's evil and suffering in the world? 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.639 Usually there are a few responses. 00:13:52.799 --> 00:14:03.840 Evil either God is not good and all-powerful, and so he's responsible for evil, or he is good but not all-powerful, and so he cannot stop evil. 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.159 Um, or God doesn't exist. 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:08.000 Next section. 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:12.080 Evil and suffering are not evidence against God. 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:22.720 So let's return to the original question of if or how a good and all-powerful God can exist in a world filled with meaningless suffering. 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:29.840 When we take some time to think about this question, uh there arises a problem of perspective. 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:30.720 Here's what I mean. 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:32.799 Listen to this quote from Tim Keller. 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:46.639 He says, Tucked away within the assertion that the world is filled with pointless evil is a hidden premise, namely that if evil appears pointless to me, then it must in fact be pointless. 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:49.919 This reasoning is, of course, fallacious. 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:58.080 Just because you can't see or imagine a good reason why God might allow suffering to happen, doesn't mean that there can't be one. 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:05.120 So the truth is that our human perspective is exceedingly limited. 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:11.120 We see and experience things from moment to moment from a single vantage point. 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:22.000 And so, because of that, it makes sense that when something bad happens to us or those around us, we we may ask the question what good could come from such and such situation? 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:27.120 But the scriptures invite us to have a much broader view. 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:32.000 The story of Joseph in the book of Genesis is a prime example. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:37.600 If you're not familiar with Joseph's story, he was uh one of many brothers. 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:47.279 Uh he was uh one of the youngest and and very arrogant, and his other brothers uh came to despise him, and in fact, they they plot to murder him. 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:52.080 At the last minute, they choose not to murder him, but they sell him into slavery instead. 00:15:52.240 --> 00:16:02.639 And so he's taken down to Egypt as a slave, and he lives as a slave in uh a wealthy man's home uh for years and years. 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:11.519 Uh at one point he is accused of rape and is thrown into prison unjustly because he's innocent. 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:14.480 And he's in prison for over a decade. 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:22.879 Now, if you know his story, you know that it it actually ends very well, and we tend to, I tend to, when I read that story, I love that story. 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.039 I love the ending, it's so beautiful. 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:34.159 But when we stop back and step back and think about Joseph, he had to endure multiple decades of unjust suffering. 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:41.120 And we can imagine him crying out to the Lord, praying for the Lord to deliver him, to save him from this unjust suffering. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:52.480 And that that deliverance really never comes, or it only comes after a number of decades that you can read about in his story. 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.440 But at the end of the story, we see something incredible. 00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:03.919 Because of what Joseph has been through, uh, and because where God placed him, he becomes a high magistrate in the government of Egypt. 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:18.319 He is able to save thousands upon thousands of lives from a great famine that sweeps through the land, including his own family members, the family through which the Messiah would come. 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:28.720 And what we see is that apart from the years of suffering Joseph went through, he never would have been in that place nor become the person to do so much good. 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:44.880 And it's at the end of that story that Joseph offers those incredible words, speaking to his brothers who had sold him into slavery so many years in advance, he said to them, What you intended for evil, God intended for good. 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:52.240 Now, not only are those words incredible, but we have to think about how is it that Joseph can articulate such faith? 00:17:52.480 --> 00:18:10.559 And the answer is that it was actually through his suffering, through that time of undergoing unjust suffering in relationship with God that formed his character, that that taught him who God was, so that he could see that God was sovereign over in and through even his own suffering. 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:13.519 And the same is true for our own lives, isn't it? 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:21.440 Many would agree that it's through suffering and hardship that our character is strengthened and developed. 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:23.920 I know that that's true in my own life. 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:28.240 Often we learn and grow the most during difficult times. 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:38.640 Again, Tim Keller, he says, with time and perspective, most of us can see good reason for at least some of the tragedy and pain that occurs in life. 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:45.839 Why couldn't it be possible that, from God's vantage point, there are good reasons for all of it? 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.000 Next section. 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.519 Evil and suffering may in fact be evidence for God. 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.640 So let's talk for a moment of the alternative offered in this question. 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:03.359 What if uh, or how can God be good and allow evil and suffering? 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:06.960 Now, there's there's a few options that people tend to turn to. 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:23.759 Either God is good and he's not all-powerful, therefore he can't stop evil, or God is not good, but he is all-powerful, and so he's responsible for evil, or God doesn't exist at all. 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.839 These are kind of three alternatives to uh a Christian view. 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:30.880 Um but C.S. 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:41.039 Lewis uh expresses the problem with uh this view, uh, this problem of not believing in God because of the evil we see in the world. 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:42.240 Listen to what he says. 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:48.720 He says, as a young adult, my argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:53.119 But how had I got to this idea of just and unjust? 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:58.240 What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:06.160 Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:10.160 But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too. 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:20.880 For the argument depends on saying that the world was really unjust, and not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:24.880 Consequently, atheism turns out to be too simple. 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:26.400 End of quote. 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:28.240 Do you see what he's saying there? 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:38.640 He's saying if we reject God because of the evil and suffering we see in the world, God is really the only basis for morality in existence. 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:44.799 And so if you banish God, you banish morality, and and therefore there is there is no real evil. 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:49.359 There's just things in this world that you don't prefer or like. 00:20:49.920 --> 00:21:01.680 And so if we really w want to call these things evil, and they are evil, then they are actually evidence for God and not away from God. 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:14.240 Uh in my experience, Christians who walk away from the faith because of evil and suffering, deep suffering, excuse me, do so because they find the struggle too difficult. 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:28.160 And and I I think this is important for us to talk about and to name that this is a hard problem, and and some of us, or some in the Christian faith, walk away because the question is just so difficult. 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:39.680 How can we maintain the tension between the good God we are told of in Scripture and the evil and suffering we experience in this world? 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:53.759 Um turning away from God is really a way to find relief from having to wrestle through this question um throughout our lives, and that's really understandable. 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:57.440 Next section. 00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:59.440 The suffering God. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.440 So now let's turn to how the Bible actually addresses the question of evil and suffering. 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:15.680 So there's an adage in the writing world, whether you're writing a novel, a story, a screenplay, those types of things. 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:20.079 And it it's the the adage goes, show, don't tell. 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:24.160 In other words, don't just tell me that this character loves that character. 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:28.079 Show me that this character has fallen in love with that character. 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:34.319 Or your spouse might say, Don't just tell me you love me, show me you love me. 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:41.599 In a sense, this is what God does with regard to his goodness in our suffering. 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:59.200 Again, as we said before, though there are places in scriptures and the scriptures that speak to our experience of suffering in this world and the ways God can work in and through that suffering, nowhere does it explain why God allowed it in the first place. 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:10.640 Rather, the Lord shows us the depth of his love and his willingness to address the reality of unjust suffering when he took on flesh and dwelt among us. 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:34.559 Our God was so intent on addressing the problem of evil, of removing the stain and the effects of sin and suffering, that he became a human being in order to die for our sins and to renew and to heal the creation which had become infected with sin and death. 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:40.960 You can look at Hebrews 2, verses 17 to 18 that speak to that specifically. 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.279 Let me read a couple other passages here. 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:53.839 Hebrews 4, 14 to 16 says, Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God. 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.720 Let us hold fast to our confession. 00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:08.880 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:20.880 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in our time of need. 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:36.720 The point of this passage is that not only does God remove suffering, sin and death in this world, he's removed sin, but he is ultimately going to renew all things. 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:48.480 But he took on flesh so that he could sympathize, so that he could experience the suffering that we experience in order to take it away. 00:24:49.519 --> 00:25:00.720 In Isaiah 53, 3, Isaiah writes, He, the Messiah, was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:06.720 As one whom men hide their faces, he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:15.119 You see, Jesus became a man of sorrows and deeply acquainted with grief. 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:24.880 This is what God was willing to do, the lengths he was willing to go to to address the issue of evil and suffering in this world. 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:44.000 Now, as hard as it is for our finite minds to comprehend, this is really the whole point of the gospel, that God was willing to take on himself the effects of sin and enduring unimaginable, unjust suffering in order to heal and to free us from it. 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:54.880 We won't go into too much depth here, but theologians have argued that Jesus' suffering was far beyond the physical torture he endured on the cross. 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.799 Again, let me quote Tim Keller. 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:01.359 He says Jesus' suffering would have been eternally unbearable. 00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:13.039 Christian theology has always recognized that Jesus bore as the substitute in our place the endless exclusion from God that the human race has merited. 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:30.799 Christianity alone among world religions claims that God became uniquely and fully human in Jesus Christ, and therefore knows firsthand despair, rejection, loneliness, poverty, bereavement, torture, and imprisonment. 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:47.359 On the cross he went beyond even the worst human suffering, and experienced cosmic rejection and pain that exceeds ours as infinitely as the knowledge and his knowledge and power exceeds ours. 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:50.400 The Bi that's the end of the quote. 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:56.480 The Bible doesn't answer the question why God allowed evil and suffering into his good creation. 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:06.559 But as we look at the cross of Jesus, the answer cannot be that he doesn't care, or that he doesn't love us, or that he is indifferent to our suffering. 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:12.000 In Jesus Christ, God became Emmanuel, God with us. 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:19.119 He not only weeps with us or suffers with us, he suffers for us out of love. 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:34.640 This is not something to pass over quickly or lightly, but especially if you are experiencing suffering right now, it is something to consider deeply, and I would encourage you to spend some time meditating on it. 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:39.119 Okay, last section. 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:51.680 Now, when I was with the at the gathering the other night uh and I got here, I said this this last section is really a 301 or a 401 level class. 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:58.400 This is um kind of a further step than I think we're used to going to, but I think it's really important. 00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:07.759 Uh but if you're really wrestling with uh the experience of evil and suffering, kind of what we've talked about thus far is is really the beginning point. 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:19.599 It's asking the question if we're willing to take Scripture at its word when things don't make full sense to us, are we willing to trust God's word and God's perspective over our own? 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:36.799 And will we take time to look at the lengths and the depths God was willing to go to on our behalf because he loves us, but also as a way of dealing with and uh in the future putting away evil and suffering for good. 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:43.759 This last section uh I want us to take the next step in looking at suffering. 00:28:48.240 --> 00:29:07.039 And that's this that uh not only from a Christian perspective are we called to uh trust God in the midst of suffering, but God invites us actually into a fellowship in Christ's sufferings. 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:20.720 There are a number of New Testament passages that speak about the necessity or the necessary connection between our experiencing the benefits of Jesus' resurrection and our experiencing his suffering. 00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:24.880 Let me read Romans eight, fifteen to seventeen. 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:36.960 Paul writes, For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, Abba, Father. 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:52.559 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him, in order that we might also be glorified with him. 00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.759 Now a passage from Philippians three, verses eight through eleven. 00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:06.720 Again, Paul writes, indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus, my Lord. 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:25.359 For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things, that I might know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.079 End of the those verses. 00:30:29.680 --> 00:31:04.960 What Paul is writing about here is that as much as it is true that we will enjoy the benefits of Christ's resurrection, that we ourselves will be resurrected on the last day, that just as real as that resurrection will be, and as much as we can look forward to it, we also participate in Christ's sufferings, which means that in this life, prior to our resurrection on the last day, our suffering is linked with Jesus' suffering. 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:16.400 In a very real sense, when we walk as followers of Jesus, we are called to follow his manner of life, which included willingly enduring suffering for the good of others. 00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.279 In our case, it's not immediately redemptive. 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:31.039 We are not suffering to take away the sins of others, but our suffering can be used by God for the blessing, the benefit, and even the redemption of others. 00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:34.720 Listen to this passage from Second Corinthians chapter one. 00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:54.640 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our afflictions, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 00:31:54.880 --> 00:32:01.599 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. 00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:14.880 If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation, and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same suffering that we suffer. 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:16.559 End of the passage. 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:19.599 Do you hear what Paul is saying? 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:38.400 He's saying that the Corinthian Christians benefit from Paul and those with him their suffering, because as they suffer, they receive God's comfort, and therefore they are able to pass their comfort on to the Corinthians as the Corinthians suffer. 00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.480 But but what Paul does is he actually links it with Christ's sufferings. 00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:51.039 He says, as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so we are able to be part of God's work in these Corinthians. 00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:54.640 And he says, Our suffering is for your comfort and salvation. 00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:01.440 This is truly a great mystery, but it's not an isolated idea in Scripture. 00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:24.720 The point is that when we suffer in faith, receiving our suffering from our Father in heaven as Jesus did, God graciously uses our suffering for the blessing of others and invites us into an even deeper fellowship with Christ as we incredibly join with him in his redemptive suffering. 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:28.559 There are many riches to mine here. 00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:36.079 But at minimum, the Lord is inviting us to take a different view and experience of suffering in this world. 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:49.200 It's not just something for us to avoid or to endure, but it's something through which we enter into a deeper relationship with our Savior and actually take part in his redemptive work in the world. 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:59.519 And in this mysterious my we can, like Jesus, endure our suffering with joy. 00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:01.680 Listen to Hebrews twelve, two. 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:15.039 Look to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was before him, endured the cross, despising its shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:16.239 Amen. 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:21.599 Thanks for taking the time to listen to this talk on God and suffering. 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.360 Again, uh these are not all the answers. 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:30.639 This is this is one uh talk on the subject, but I hope that it's helpful. 00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:35.039 And uh if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to me anytime. 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:35.920 Thanks.