Let me pray for us.
God, thank you for grace and mercy.
Thank you love us.
And you love our kids and you love our grandkids.
And you know all about them.
You know a lot more about them than we will ever know about them.
And that's our starting point.
Help us to steward parenting well.
Help us to be participants in this while you are the ultimate authority and author of their story.
Help us tonight to have open hearts to listen and learn something that would be so good for our parenting, good for our heart as parents or as grandparents, or just as somebody who loves a kid and a student.
And that would ultimately then come through to our child or our student.
Pray this in Jesus' name.
Amen.
So we're going to start to do these parent workshops twice a year, I think is our hope.
And so this is our first one.
And so we figure we're going to start with all the people in our church that already know stuff.
And so RJ and Nicole Thaxton, they are both licensed therapists in our church.
And then they work with Jonathan Smith, who's also a therapist.
And so I'm going to let each of them introduce themselves and then we'll get into some of these different questions that are going to guide our way.
Okay.
Well, first, just thanks for having us.
We enjoy getting to be able to do things like this and helping the community that we serve.
And so I'm RJ Thaxton.
I'm a co-founder of Atlanta Wellness Collective with my wife Nicole here.
And it's a holistically minded wellness center.
So we have like a group of counselors, but we also have a massage therapist, we have a dietitian, and then we also have a chiropractor.
And we've we've kind of the reason we did that is we excuse me, we we wanted to create an environment where it wasn't just mental health oriented because we realized there's so much more to every person than just that.
And so we decided to create a practice that integrated everybody together, and so we do a lot of collaboration amongst all of us.
I primarily work with men's issues, um couples, and then I also work with some teens and adolescents as well.
Oh, I went to school at my undergraduate was at Barrie College, but I went to Richmond Graduate University to get my master's degree in clinical mental health counseling.
I'm Nicole, Dr.
Nicole Thaxton, um wife to RJ.
This is weird, like this is really weird for us to be up here.
Um, because RJ and I, you know, attend church here, but we are used to being in like a room with like one person.
Like this is super awkward.
Um, but we're thankful that you asked us to be here.
And so yeah, we co-found Atlanta Wellness Collective.
We're like right up 41.
Um, but I got my undergrad at UGA, Go Dogs.
Um, and then I went on to Richmond Graduate University for my master's in counseling, met RJ there, um, which is cool.
Uh and then I got my PhD at Mercer University in Atlanta.
So my PhD is in counselor education and supervision.
So I mostly work with kids, teens, families.
I've been doing that in private practice in the area for six years.
Um, and then I do a lot of uh work with high achievers, anxiety, a lot of grief work, um, and I supervise a lot of counselors as well at our office.
Um that's a little bit about what I do.
Yeah.
Cool.
My name is Jonathan Smith.
I work with RJ and Nicole at Helena Wellness Collective.
I got my undergrad degree from Biola University, which is in Los Angeles, and went to a Dallas Seminary in Dallas, Texas, got my master's in biblical counseling there.
Um, been here in Atlanta for about like four years now, and worked in a uh psych hospital for about three years of that.
So I've kind of done every level of care there is.
I've worked inpatient, worked did some residential and outpatient, and now I've been with Arjana Cole since last September doing private practice.
I've also worked a lot in the church doing youth ministry.
Um done youth ministry for probably 10 plus years, and so really grateful to be here with you guys and excited to have a good talk.
Okay, great.
So we're gonna divide tonight up into two sections.
We have a handful of questions that uh our student pastor and uh these three came up with together to kind of structure for about 40 minutes.
So there's six of those questions.
A lot of these questions overlap, so some of those will overlap a little bit.
And then we're gonna have a little stretch break, just like stand up, stretch, turn around, sit back down.
If you need to use the restroom, you just kind of sneak yourself out at any point, but you could definitely sneak out of that little stretch break if you need to.
And then we're gonna go into the last section.
We will go into we we had six really great questions come in through you guys, or maybe even a parent who didn't come tonight, but sent in a question, and we're gonna work our way through those, and then we'll hopefully save 15 minutes or so at the end for any questions you have or follow-ups or something like that.
And so if you you can jot that down as we go.
Um, the first question uh that we have that you guys generated with Sam was what have you seen to be some of the major causes of anxiety and depression in children and students?
Well, one thing I wanted to ask super quick, are I want to kind of see if you like the age of kiddos, maybe?
So if you have like maybe younger kiddos or elementary, could you just like raise your hand a little?
Okay, cool.
And then middle school.
Yes, middle schoolers.
And then high school, awesome.
And then like college age or older, yeah.
Cool.
Yeah, go dogs.
Yeah, your daughter goes to Georgia.
Cool.
Okay, so with anxiety and depression, so something that we see a lot of um, and that's super helpful because we want to make sure that we're kind of answering based on like, I guess, all the ages.
Um, but I think one of our big points that we want to kind of take home tonight is just being applicable to what we see in our office, kind of what we work with, what we see, because we see so many kids and students and parents all the time that it can be kind of like themes that start to come up.
And so, as you can imagine, like during COVID, that's been a really, really big factor for like the work that we're doing.
Not only are we seeing like so many more kids and teens, and like with school being halted basically for a few years and like all the uncertainty with that, I've definitely seen a big increase in like anxiety and depression and and also grief of just like these kiddos that are missing out on certain opportunities that we maybe wouldn't have had to deal with a few years ago.
Um I think that we're gonna talk about like social media and how that contributes to anxiety and like setting boundaries around that, um, but also relationships.
So, friend relationships, family relationships, um, and things like that I see contributing a lot to anxiety and depression.
Yeah, I mean, so I I guess I didn't say this, I'm gonna get in trouble if I don't.
So I I I work with a lot of mood disorders like anxiety and depression, work with teens, and kind of life transitions.
So, one of the things I love working with is identity.
And personally, my kind of theory and belief of a lot of mood disorders like anxiety, depression, is also having difficulty finding confidence in who I am as a person.
And like, what am I doing in this life?
Like, why am I here?
And I think those questions, like what's my purpose?
And we kind of just go through, especially students, like their whole goal is to graduate.
It's like I'm just gonna push, push, push, push, push, push, push.
Now I'm out of high school.
Okay, now what?
I'm in college.
Uh I'm just gonna push, push, push, push, push, push, and now I'm in the workforce.
And then it's just pushing and just kind of doing the next thing and not really being in it and feeling like they're fulfilling their purpose or really even knowing who they are to do that.
So that's something personally I love and incorporate with a lot of my clients, and I see, and I think the other thing, and Nicole was hitting on this, was also just stress that kind of comes with the pushing in COVID, but also just like a mismanagement of stress and a unhealthy coping with stress.
So, learning, even something we do a lot, is just even education on like healthy coping skills as opposed to escapes and stuff of that nature.
Yeah, and I I guess just to add to that, like the world changed a lot the past two years.
And so I think uh there's just a lot of natural stress because we don't know how to deal with that, like, right?
Who who's ever gone through something that we've been through recently?
So uh as hard as it is on us for our teens and for our kids, like all the more hard for them.
They don't know how to navigate this stuff.
Um, everything has changed.
Those are great noises.
Like, we are all for we're all for the noise at this point.
Okay, I didn't even hear it.
Okay, true.
Um, how can parents best help their children who struggle with anxiety and depression?
How do parents help?
Um well, so we went over these questions and we've kind of talked um about the background of it.
And uh I since I primarily work with adults, what I what I see is um teens who maybe weren't attended to turn into adults who need help as well.
And so um I guess I guess I would say like my main theme is geared towards parents and trying to really listen to their kids and be curious for their kids.
Um the stress, the anxiety, the depression, um, those things are typically going to be symptomatic of like how they feel within relationship, and if they're struggling to have good relationships with their families, um their families of origin, then it's always easier to I guess deal with them alone and feel like they don't know how to deal with them.
And since we're dealing with like parent relationships, because you guys are all here for parenting, um, trying to understand that like how we communicate to our kids, how we listen to our kids, how we're curious about our kids without judgment can really impact um how they end up feeling and how they end up dealing with their anxiety that they do have or the depression that they do have or whatever they're dealing with.
Yeah, a lot of the time, like when uh when a family comes and they they call our office or they come into my office, you know, we we first require an initial parent appointment.
So something I just kind of learned along the way is like, hey, I want to meet mom and dad, I want to make sure this is gonna be a good fit.
And so we sit down for those parent appointments, and you know, maybe it's anxiety or maybe it's depression or whatever.
And like I said, I I work with a lot of high achieving teens, and so you know, your IB, your magnet, your AP, like I feel like this area, you guys know you're you're in the area too.
It's such an intense like pressure environment.
Like East Cobb, Marietta, we're we live in West Cobb.
Um, it's just a lot of pressure.
And so a lot of the time, you know, I'll meet with parents and then we we do the whole the whole parent appointment thing.
Um and then I'll meet with the teen or the kid or whoever, you know, whoever is meeting with.
And a lot of the time it's like, you know, like, and this is not to say anything about the parents, like the families I meet with are amazing families.
Um, I love all of them, but it's like I don't really have any anywhere to like just talk about this, you know.
Like, I'm not allowed to talk about my anxiety at school.
I'm just having to, like Jonathan was saying, like, push, push, push, push, push.
There's really no break.
Like, I don't feel safe to talk to my coach about it because like they're gonna pull me off the team if they know I'm like crying every night.
Um, and then mom and dad, like maybe even the best well-attuned parent, like RJ and I um have a daughter, my stepdaughter.
She's uh gonna be 14 in March.
And she, you know, we're both counselors, and she does not want to talk to us about her feelings.
Like, she won't.
She won't do it.
She's like, You're being a counselor right now, please stop.
Um and like we're trained in this, like, we do this all the time.
So, like, even she doesn't want to talk to us.
So, I don't want you guys to feel bad if your kids don't want to talk to you.
You know, your kids are like, I need to talk to professionals.
She's like, We're like two professionals.
She's like, no.
Um, so anyway, my point is like when when kids, when teens, when they come in, it's like the cool thing about the therapy relationship is they just have that space to purely like, we're not there to judge, like we're not there to teach.
We don't have to like parent them, you know, but we just get to hear them and like listen to them.
And it can be such a healing thing.
And if you've been to a therapist, you hopefully have experienced that, not a bad experience.
Um, but to answer your question, like I think what parents can do is what RJ is saying is like being curious with your kid, like sometimes turning off that like parent mode or like the teaching mode or that need to like jump in.
I call it like the teachable moment.
Like everything has to be like a teachable moment, you know, or let's Google anxiety together.
It's like, no, like just being there for your kid and being curious about their feelings and asking them questions without judgment is like one of the best things you can do.
And then obvious, obviously, if it's like getting really, really escalated, maybe pulling in a therapist or like pulling in somebody else or talking to the coach or whatever.
Um, but I think just that curiosity is so important.
Yeah, I would add, even to that, I think the curiosity is there.
I also feel like one of the best things we can do when we're in in helping the people, the students that were in our lives, it's also modeling that for them.
And so if we're struggling with, I mean, this week has been just so hard.
And you know, obviously there's a boundary around how much we share with our children, but it's this modeling of like, man, I've just been really anxious about this project I've got at work, and I'm kind of stressed about it.
And I got but I still have to make sure I'm caring for myself within that.
And so as parents, it's really making sure we're caring for ourselves so we can then show up the best for our kids.
If we're caring for ourselves, we're able to give all of ourselves to our children.
And I think that's something we oftentimes forget, and something I'm probably gonna come back to a lot tonight, is we're so focused on them, and it's not that they're not important, but we have to make sure we're at a place where we can be there for them.
And that's really important and sometimes forgotten.
Uh so I think modeling that and showing when we're curious about it, even modeling that we can be open and it's kind of destigmatizing that pressure that is not ensued by parents or family, but really just our culture and our world, especially in the Cobb County community.
It's high pressure, high stress, high achieving, and difficulty with vulnerability.
If we can be a little bit vulnerable with them, it creates a space for them to be vulnerable with us.
How does self-esteem relate to anxiety and depression?
They both look at me.
Uh I think self-esteem is, I mean, I kind of a little bit intro to it, I feel like I answered it minimally when I was introducing myself.
Secondly, is I think when we start to feel depressed and low and questioning of what's going on and who, again, I would argue who I am and what I'm doing in this world, we start to begin to self-critique inwardly and blame ourselves, and that lowers that self-esteem.
And so I think when we're already low and our brains and our chemical imbalances are there, and lack of motivation, lack of focus, those different things impede us in our functioning.
And when we're seeing a decrease in functioning, it starts to turn inward and blame ourselves.
And so that starts to lower and affect our self-esteem.
Yeah, I would say it's probably like a like a double-edged sword, because if our self-esteem is low, like for me, self-esteem is like confidence.
It's like how I feel about myself.
And it's actually something that we talk about a lot, I feel like in therapy with especially teens, because that's such a big thing, is like confidence and identity, like virtually identity is just who am I?
You know, they're all like, I mean, I'm still figuring out who I am.
Um, but like, especially for teenagers, they're like, who am I?
Like kind of figuring it out.
And I think we're gonna get more into this later with some of the other questions.
Um, but if our self-esteem is low, if we kind of have low confidence in general, then it's also gonna increase our anxiety and our depression, like our depressed feelings that we have or our anxious feelings that we have.
Um, and so a lot of the time, like I I think that's why I I know I'm you're probably gonna be getting like so many little therapy plugs tonight, and I apologize for that, but that's like our whole life is like therapy.
Um but in therapy, it's like that's where we're piecing out like kind of where is if there's like a self-esteem issue or a confidence issue or an anxiety, where like it really is like mind mapping through like what is kind of creating this or contributing, and it could have it could be like so many different things.
So and typically they also then start to you start to see like it, oh come on, brain work, like start to impact each other.
And so if my self-esteem is lower, that's gonna depress my mood, which is gonna make my self-esteem lower, and they work off of each other to continue to bring us farther and farther or spool us up and up with our anxiety.
And I think they like Nicole used the word double-edged sword, I think it's also they work against each other and continue to ramp it up or ramp it down.
I want to say to you, real quick, because there's like levels, like everything that we're talking about, there's so many levels, right?
So Jonathan mentioned that he's worked in an impatient setting before, and obviously that's um working with kids or working with adults, um, where this is really significantly impacting functioning.
It's impacting ability to go to school.
I mean, like so many things, even to the point of like self-harming, like suicidal thoughts.
Um, but then you have like the high-end, which is kind of the world of like high-functioning anxiety, we call it, where it is these like I B magnet kids that like meet every single criteria for anxiety.
Like we're speaking diagnostically, but they're still like the homecoming queen, you know what I mean?
Like, I've seen it.
So you have like such these varying levels, and I think um sometimes it's hard to tell maybe what might be contributing to it, but it can still be there, and I think that that's what we're saying when it's like kind of validating and being curious about those feelings, because I think sometimes the trickiest stuff is when it is, I'm just gonna keep using that example, but it is like your homecoming queen or your valedictorian student.
Um, like I'm sure you saw Miss USA, I think she committed suicide like last week, um, former Miss USA.
And it kind of puts the mental health scene out into the news cycle a little bit, but it's like it can impact anybody.
So just being curious about it is what's so important.
What is what does that look like?
So, like for a parent, your child has anxiety or depression, and maybe you're not ready to go to the therapist, or maybe you are going to therapist as well, but what does that look like in the home for curiosity for the parent to engage, ask questions?
Like really practically what does that look like?
Do you mean like symptoms, or do you mean like what does it look like?
No, like what would be parent?
How would the parent be engaging in that sort of like principle of hey, be curious about your child, be curious about this feeling, be curious about their their anxiety without being judgmental, what is that, what does that practically look like?
Like what kind of questions is that?
Well, uh we can talk about the questions part.
I I think the biggest thing is like the theme for tonight is be curious because the I it is though, I mean, um with people who are with teens, even with adults, like when we're struggling with anxiety and depression, like people kind of tying into the self-confidence thing, you think something's wrong with you, right?
Like I would imagine a lot of the teens that have depression, they're like, Oh, what's wrong with me?
Why do I feel this way?
Um, same with anxiety.
And so um a practical application of that to me, kind of in my mindset of being curious is not not trying to be necessarily like fixers.
So when when you have a child or a teen that says, you know, um, you know, I'm just I'm really sad, I don't want to go to my school practice or you know, like basketball practice or whatever like that.
I don't want to go, I don't have any energy, I just I don't want to do it.
Um not shaming them about it, um, and not saying, well, you know, you should be why are why are you sad?
You should be happy, you know.
We have this awesome house, we go to this great school, you have all of these things.
Like, why are you why are you sad?
Um instead kind of flip that and and ask more questions based around those.
Like, what what was that like to feel sad?
What what do you mean by that?
Tell me more.
Like one of the best questions you can say is uh tell me more about that.
Um, you know.
What's that actually feel like for you?
And that that's a lot of what the therapy relationship does, is we try and get them to attune to how they're actually feeling.
And kind of not necessarily like normalizing, like we don't want them to stay depressed or stay anxious, but we want to normalize it to the point where it's like you're not broken and you're just in a tough season.
And I think we would all agree, like, we really do believe, like, unless there's something biologically that you know needs some kind of prescription intervention, like these things happen for seasons.
Um, nothing lasts forever.
And so we kind of we kind of practice out of that hope and out of that knowledge.
And so I want to normalize it and just be as curious as we can.
That attunement like helps them understand, like, okay, it's gonna it's okay.
Like I'm down right now, but it's okay, or I'm anxious right now and it's okay, instead of saying, like, well, study harder, you know, pray more.
Like, if you just prayed more, you'll probably be okay.
And it's like, yeah, I mean that's a good thing to do, but that's not the end all of it.
Um, especially when we're trying to teach our kids how to be emotionally healthy adults, right?
Like, God, that would be good.
So, can we jump to social media?
Yeah, or did you want to add anything on that?
I'm going to add just one really quick thing, and I think as we're talking, especially in social media, I know we're on our time, we have a lot of other questions we want to get to, but a lot of what we're talking about too is with anxiety and depression.
Depressed is a feeling.
Like I feel depressed, right?
That is an emotion.
And there's a big difference between having the emotion of feeling depressed and having major depressive disorder, recurrence, severe, or something like that.
Or I can feel anxious.
I have an anxiety feeling today, which is going to be different than an anxiety disorder.
And so we all in this room, I mean, if we really were honest with ourselves, have felt anxious at some point in time because we're humans.
We've also probably all felt depressed at times because we're also humans.
And so those are also just normal feelings that we as humans feel.
Yeah.
Okay, so to social media, um, I think we would all we all know at this point that social media is is very harmful to children and to students, um to adults, to me.
Um so how do we um well, first off, what are some things that you see in the counseling profession as as a result of social media?
Like what is social media producing when you see children students show up in your office?
Number one, and number two, then how do we as parents talk to our children about social media in a way that's actually helpful?
Yeah.
So I was gonna point out with kind of what RJ was saying, um, a lot I don't know if maybe your teenager is doing this, but uh it's called TikTok diagnosis, if you've heard of it.
I made that up.
Um, but it's where teenagers and adults alike see things on TikTok like ADHD or depression or anxiety, and they're like, oh, I have that.
Anyone?
Is that like just me?
TikTok has diagnosed me with ADHD, it's diagnosed me with everything.
Um, so that's a big one that I'm seeing.
And I um I do a lot of work with uh and a lot of kind of like educating and presenting on like counseling teens and like stuff like that.
And that's always one that I feel like I get asked is like, what do you do with all these teens that are like self-diagnosis, basically?
Um, so everybody's like, I need I need a therapist, like I have depression, I have anxiety.
Um, and that's a huge one that I'm seeing from social media.
Is one, I think there's just so much more information out there, which can be a great thing, but can also be like yay for normalizing and yay for like destigmatizing mental health and therapy.
Um but it can also be a little bit like every high school student now thinks they have something that's like diagnosable and needs medication.
Um and so sometimes it is our role to normalize that, but then also explain, like Jonathan did, the difference between feeling anxious one day and like diagnosing yourself with an anxiety disorder and needing medication.
Like, do some people need that?
Absolutely.
Um but I'm seeing a big rise in like literally getting teens or college students in my office that only want a diagnosis.
And we do diagnose mental health disorders, um, but it's like a big thing now because of social media, I feel like.
Um the other thing, oh, also wrapped up in identity because I know we're probably gonna talk more about it, but like is that something type of identity?
So tell me more what you mean by is that wrapped up in identity.
Here we go.
I need to clarify Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, so we're gonna get into that.
We had some questions about that later.
Um so one of the key, like this is really important when I'm meeting with parents.
I want to do kind of some education around like the human development cycle because your kiddos, you know, when you're when your kiddos are young, which I've never raised like a young child, so I don't really know, but I assume uh you're like reading the parenting books and you're like, what happens at 18 months?
You know, and well, it's true for the entire lifespan.
We just kind of ignore it after our kids are little, but there's actually like really specific developmental things happening, you know, in middle school.
They call it early adolescence, mid-adolescence, late adolescence.
So your college students are actually in late adolescence, and this brain is not fully developed till 25 to 30.
And so these are all developmental periods.
I know people like love when I say that when I'm like, the brain's not developed yet.
Good and bad, like there's a reason for that.
It's not developed yet because young people take more risks.
That's kind of a bad thing, but it can be a good thing too.
So, anyway, I'm off topic identity.
So, this kind of stage of development that's happening with your middle schooler, your high schooler, it's actually textbook.
This isn't like a Dr.
Nicole thing, this is like a textbook thing.
Identity development is the whole stage, the whole developmental stage.
What does that mean?
Who am I?
What am I?
So, you know, parents will come in and they're like, my kid dyed their hair green and oh my gosh, and like freaking out.
And I'm like, yeah, they're just like trying that on, you know, for the week.
Like it'll probably be pink next week.
Like, I'm sorry, but it'll happen.
Um, for me, it was like I dyed my hair like dark, I like pierced my cartilage.
I was so, you know, alternative.
Um, and I'll share that with parents because I'm like, hey, you probably remember going through that too.
So with that being said, like we can get into some of the, I think we're gonna talk about sexuality some.
Um Yeah, the next question actually says, how does sexuality tie into this?
So yeah, thinking about social media, what you're seeing come out of social media with students, um, how does sexuality tie into this?
And then we do need to circle back around to like how do we talk to our students about it?
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, you can go ahead and jump into the I know I'm I know I'm going on I know I'm going on a little tangent here to answer your question.
Um, but with the world being the way it is now, so mental health is like more talked about on TikTok and social media, um, the LGBTQ community is like way bigger thing talked about than it was even when I was in high school not too long ago, you know.
And so with that being said, there's a lot of different pieces of identity that kids are kind of latching on to um for good and for bad.
You know, it used to be maybe am I an athlete, am I an artist, am I a smart kid?
And we kind of put those labels, you know, on each other.
But also it's like, yeah, am I the depressed kid?
I mean, some some kids can do that.
I don't want to like over-generalize for the ones that that's not the case, but I think for some it's just becoming a a big kind of thing.
Um, and back to the social media, that's kind of how I'm seeing that.
I think obviously there's like negatives of social media that we all know about too.
I mean, with more access to things or ability to get into maybe more trouble than good comparison, all the different filters, and I think I was I was reading some research last week about the increase in the um aesthetic cosmetology field with like all the Botox and the fillers, ladies, you all know what I'm talking about.
Um huge percentages ever since it was a study that was looking at like 2010 when Instagram got big and all the Instagram filters, and then how uh it's shown this massive increase in trend, like I think it was like a three billion dollar like growth in the industry or something like that.
So, and it's getting younger and younger.
I mean, I have high schoolers that are getting like cosmetic adjustments and things like very normal.
I know you're looking at me like I'm crazy.
No, very, very normal.
Um, like high schoolers getting yeah, all sorts of work done.
So Jonathan, what are you saying when you meet with teenagers, what are you seeing social media?
What's the effect?
Yeah, I think uh to answer that question in your question, I would say that we as humans, for for all of us, even adults, social media is impacting us in some way, right?
And I think we also are always trying to identify who we are.
Whether we're a teenager or a 70-year-old, we're always trying to answer that question of who I am.
We do it as an adult by what we do.
You meet somebody, they say, Hey, what do you do?
You say, Oh, I'm a doctor.
Well, I'm actually answering your question incorrectly.
You asked, What do I do?
and I answered, I am.
So what we do, we tie with our identity.
As a student, we're looking for that identity anywhere we can get it.
And there's a lot less areas, and identifying ourselves as a student is not always the coolest, funnest thing.
And so, especially in that age, as they're beginning to differentiate themselves from their family system and begin to identify who I am besides my family, I think that plays a huge role into it.
And I think social media gives us that much more access.
Oh, I'm seeing all these things out there, I'm seeing all these different people, and I want to be like that and model myself after that.
And I think, like Nicole is saying, it gives us access, but it also allows us to then compare.
And I think we do that if we're being honest too as adults.
Oh, I'm seeing them and they're having their newborn, and my wife and I are pregnant, and it's like, oh my gosh, like their kid is the cutest thing ever.
What if our kid comes out and it's not cute?
It's like, what does that say about me?
And or it's like, oh my gosh, their their nine-month-old is walking.
Our our kid hasn't even started crawling yet.
What are we gonna do?
And the more people and the more stuff we get to see for lack of a better word, it begins to always compare back to what am I doing?
How am I doing?
Who am I then?
Is what I would say.
And so I think we see that in high school with social media.
I think it impacts that question or of who I am even that much more so and provides us more opportunities to try to answer that question, maybe trying to fill it in before we really know who we are.
One of my recommendations, um, if you haven't seen The Social Dilemma on um Netflix, like I'm a I'm I love that documentary, The Social Dilemma.
Um, I would encourage you to watch it with your student and have be curious, get curious, have conversations, ask them what they think about it.
Um that's one of my like top tips is to watch that.
It's basically talking about like the dirty underbelly of how like companies like Google and Facebook and TikTok are literally just trying to get you to stay on their apps longer, like that's really all they care about.
Um and I think like Jonathan was saying, you know, when I was in when I was in high school, not super long ago, I compared myself to like my friend's house down the street and like what they had in their room.
And it was like pretty much the same stuff I had in my room, you know what I mean?
But I'm on I'm I'm really active on TikTok.
Um, and I'm seeing like 23-year-olds with like New York City apartments, you know, and really nice cars and stuff like that.
And our teens are just exposed to so much more now that we weren't even that that long ago exposed to.
It's such this like rapid, rapid change in our whole society, I think.
And I I do see it impacting.
And so the social dilemma will kind of explain how that's also impacting mental health and stuff like that too.
It's a good documentary.
Well, and the biggest thing with social media too is we typically only show the good side of us, right?
If you guys have seen this, experience this, it's like, oh, I took me, you know, I woke up looking like this, and it's like nobody really sees the hours that we took to get ready to make that picture look like we just woke up, but truly it's it's not even true.
And so our teens are seeing this and they're striving to be that much more like that.
And so I think it also creates that vulnerability issue, which we were talking about earlier, where we as parents trying to be vulnerable and open about who we really are, so they can feel comfortable to be who they truly are, as opposed to trying to be someone they're not.
And I'll just say one thing real quick because I know we can we need to keep moving, we've been on this one for a bit.
Um kind of what we talked about earlier about the modeling, too.
My thing is like kids are gonna be naturally addicted to these types of things.
A lot of parents are, a lot of adults are too.
And so having uh a mindset of like how am I gonna model this, right?
So, like not having your phone at dinner, like if we're gonna get practical about some things, like set healthy boundaries for yourself because they're gonna model what you do.
You know, if they're if you're they're trying to talk to you, but you know, you have the TV on and you're scrolling through Facebook if you're old or Instagram if you're a little bit younger, and TikTok or Snapchat if you're really young.
Um if you're if you're doing that, they're just they're gonna think you're not interested, and they just think, oh, this is just what we do.
This is just what our family does.
Um, and so I think to kind of help with that, because there is so much comparison, there is so much that they can learn and see from um social media that's unhealthy, that if we want to if we want to help them in this, then I think we need to learn to have really good boundaries for ourselves, but then I also really think like having family boundaries um is really healthy as well.
So and I think even to add on to what RJ's saying, it's like our kids are also listening.
And so if we're sitting there like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that person just posted that on like and can you believe like what they're showing?
Like, they're hearing that.
And so unfortunately, it's also like what how are we how are we viewing our social media profiles and how are we interacting on social media, and then how are our kids seeing that?
And so maybe we're you're even friends on Facebook or Instagram with your your your kid and they're seeing what you're posting or they're seeing what you're commenting, it's being aware of that too.
So something I want to I want to get complicated here because I do think there are positives of social media, so a lot of parents will just say um you can't have it.
And I see that a lot, especially Snapchat.
Like I have so many parents that just won't let their kid have Snapchat, and I totally get it.
However, I think a big thing that when we're we're I'm giving you some insight into like the therapist's lens is we're not really raising kids, we're trying to raise healthy adults, kind of what RJ was saying.
And I always kind of push back, like these are conversations we would be having in therapy where we're processing, like, hey, you know, Sarah Jane is going to college in like eight months or whatever, you know, like everybody her age communicates through Snapchat.
They all do, like that's just what they do.
She's trying to meet roommates and she can't even like DM anybody, you know, so for college or whatever.
So I think it's important, like RJ's saying, that we're having, we're getting curious, we're having these conversations about like the good and the bad of social media.
And then it's not enough.
I don't, I don't think in our society today, maybe a few years ago, but I don't think it's enough to just say like they can't have it.
And instead, what we're trying to do is model healthy boundaries for them.
So when they go off to college, when they're an adult, they have healthy boundaries.
They've been able to fail a few times at home with you, not in big ways.
But if we're sending them off into the world with like no social media skills, which is personally where I do all my networking and meet all my friends, is on social media now.
Um I'm a little weird, but it's kind of like the way that things are going for their generation, especially.
And so I did want to push back on that and I think that's great.
I know what we've learned and what we've learned from parents that are ahead of us when we ask them is um like healthy boundaries, clear boundaries with phone.
Like when do you get a phone?
Like almost like a family plan.
Like, when do you get a phone?
What will it be?
What will be allowed on it?
Why do we do that?
How, what times of day do you get it?
When does it shut itself off?
An iPhone has beautiful features for you to govern all that, you know, and then all right, what ages, what grades do you graduate into additional apps or whatever?
Because the goal is, um, like what we've learned from some friends of ours, is by their senior year, they have everything.
There's nothing off limits.
So that way you have a whole year of them having complete freedom under your home.
That way, if they mess up, they're still with you.
And so you're kind of like pacing them into it.
But I know just the on-ramp.
You don't want to just like pop on 75.
What we've noticed with our girls, on-ramp.
We only have one on the ramp at this point, they do want the plan because my you know, my even my third grader has a friend who has a phone.
Well, we don't give phones to a later grade.
So I can just say to her, well, our family does phones at this age.
You know, that there is a very clear plan.
So we don't have to keep talking about it.
Isn't that great?
We don't have to keep talking about it.
Like, like, there's a plan.
Here's your plan, here's the plan.
You know, and so we're pacing them and on-ramping them.
And I think that that's really helped them not have anxiety about this issue of like wondering and when, and and then as well, the goal being like let them have complete freedom and liberation within your home before within the law, of course, under your roof their senior year.
That way, if there's some mess ups within that freedom, at least you have a year there that you can you're you're closer to them.
Yeah, no, no, sorry.
Sorta.
No, I'm just kidding.
Um, I would say, like, uh, along with that, like explaining why the on-ramp is the way the on-ramp is.
Yeah, yeah.
Like communicating as much as we can, because you you don't want to be just seen as a dictator who's like, well, this is just the way it is.
Yeah, that there's a reason for this.
And it's out of love, it's out of care.
We've actually had a couple adjustments too, where our daughter has kind of re- and I'm always up for renegotiations.
Like, I'm not a negotiating parent, but if she comes and she'll say, Hey, you know, like very a very practical thing, like, hey, like this is being very limiting, and I'm like, okay, like go and think that through, and then let's have a little conversation about it.
And then if it's valid, like, yeah, you know what, you're right on this one.
Like, you know, I think there has to be that open, we're not gonna negotiate everything constantly, but that plan does need to have a little flexibility, and then the purpose of it, I think it's very helpful.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think the metaphor there is oftentimes like thinking about like how the workplace environment operates.
It's like you're not constantly going to your boss saying, I need this, I need this, I need an extra day this year, I need an extra week this year.
But if there has been three or four years you've been in the with the company and there's been no growth there, it's like, hey, I've kind of been here and been faithful and been a good employee.
Not that that means everything.
Like we're it's not just about doing the thing, like we want to know the heart behind it too, but it's I've kind of I've kind of been faithful.
Like, can you trust me with a little bit more?
And having that opportunity for growth, like you're saying.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, last question in this uh this section.
How can I cultivate our home to be a safe place for open conversation about hard topics?
What would I say?
I think a big thing is like I think we're gonna get into this on the next questions a little bit more.
Um I go back to like as as parents, you know, we we have so many different roles, right?
It's like you're the mom, you're the teacher, you're the Disciplinarian, you're the you know, there's so many different like roles.
The the guide.
I have uh this one family that I worked with a a while ago, and uh you know, the dad was like the total coach type, you know, like super corporate, like coach, everything was like, you know, you gotta be teachable.
Um he would literally say that.
I was like, ugh, but it would it didn't go off well because it was just like all the time, like it was always a learning opportunity, always a teaching opportunity.
And I think that when you're trying to establish uh just good open lines of communication with your kids, like Russ, it sounds like you guys do a great job with that because you you talk about things, you allow your kids like space to be negotiators and a party in it, you know what I mean?
And so a lot of the time, like just sometimes taking off that pressure to be like constantly teaching, or I have to make it a teachable moment, or I have to like really dive in here and be the disciplinarian on this one, like maybe just trying to put on that curiosity hat like a little bit more, especially as your kids age, like age appropriate, right?
Like, we don't want our four-year-old like throwing a tantrum and we're like, I'm trying to get curious with your feelings, like no.
But I think as they're getting older, like just putting on that curiosity hat, and even if you want to think about it like that and just sitting with them, or maybe you want to call it the therapist hat or whatever, just like listening and like being there for their feelings.
Because I see when kids like shut down with their parents altogether, or when we get into like um blatant like defiance or like more serious behavioral type things, it's because those lines of communication have been shut down for a long time.
Um, there isn't much curiosity, it's just always a teachable moment, or like discipline, or I can't I know I can't say anything to mom and dad because I know what I'm gonna get every time I say something.
So that would be kind of my feedback.
Kids will also be able to pick up on that.
They are very attuned to when they are being listened to, like when they're actually being heard, and when there's a precocked, ready-to-go answer already in.
It's like, okay, you didn't really hear what I said, that just hit and bounced right off and you weren't even listening.
They're very, they're very aware of that, but they can hear that and feel that difference.
Um something I'd also say that has also been an answer to I think every single one of these questions that we haven't talked about that I'd really want to encourage each of you guys with is this is also something that each of you guys can be praying about, like for yourself, right?
Like go to God with this and like praying for your kid, like not like RJ was saying, just telling your kid, like you got to pray this through.
And it's like pray more, pray more, pray more.
It's like, but we can be praying more.
Prayer is one of our biggest weapons in this world.
And it is something that we can each use and inviting God into this and into some of those conversations.
And so going to him with some of our anxiety ourselves as a parent.
Man, I know I have been doing that the past six months as I'm getting ready for for a kid, like going to him with, oh my gosh, I am scared to bring somebody into this world, and that is okay, and he can handle that.
Yeah, and the only thing I would add is taking the lens off of focusing on the kids and focusing on like how do we be really healthy adults ourselves?
Like if we're really healthy, then I think it's gonna make it a lot easier for our kids to feel safe and secure and healthy because they're gonna see it modeled.
So, um, and and a lot of that for me is awareness.
So you know, we say self-awareness, but um like knowing how you're actually doing.
I can't tell you how many times, like I I'm sure I'm a therapist, but I'm flawed human and I try really hard, but I can't tell you the amount of times like I've apologized to my daughter because it's been a long week or it was you know, tough things happen, and then I'm not the kindest maybe that I want to be.
Or I mean I apologize to you all the time, but um but we're called we're talking about parents here.
Um not our couples counseling right now, right?
Yeah.
Um, which we do because it's healthy, okay.
So some of y'all need to hear that maybe.
Um people are shocked that we go to couples counseling, but we're both counselors.
Counselors need to be counseled, pastors need to be pastors, right?
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
But so just trying to be really aware for yourselves and saying, like, okay, you know, like I said, I've apologized my daughter so many times saying, like, hey, daddy, sorry, you know, uh, and I I've tried to be very open with her about my emotions from the beginning because I don't want to hide how I'm doing now, like to the extent of maybe like what is really going on, like she gets like the age-appropriate version of it.
Um, but then it's it's really interesting because then when I get to share those with her, she's always like, Oh, it's okay, daddy.
And I'm like, well, well, thank you.
It's not okay because that's not how like I want to treat you, and so I'm really sorry.
And so I try and acknowledge it and normalize the idea that like, man, sometimes we have bad days, and and that's okay, um, but be quick to ask for forgiveness and and receive that and be able to give that to our kids is a beautiful thing because then they they see that as a model, like they're sponges, they're little, you know, monkey see, monkey do type thing.
And so um, if we can model really healthy emotional awareness and really healthy emotional communication, we're setting them up to at least have a better chance to not have to come to our office um and see one of us later.
That was a joke.
One thing I've noticed, one thing I've noticed for our parenting is um we've been very big since they were babies on first time obedience.
Like obey first, we can discuss later.
And that's sort of a principle that even in early teenagehood we're still living by that, but I have noticed it changes, like it shifts.
Like when they're little, it really is like, no, I said it, you do it.
You know, because they're three or they're four.
Like these are safety issues to a certain extent sometimes, right?
Like you're and you're establishing the authority relationship.
But I can't I have noticed, and it's interesting because we're right in the shift, you know, because we have a 13-year-old and we have a 10-year-old or 11-year-old, and so we're right in the shift with them of like, yeah, it's still obey first, discuss second, but like we're doing it with a different tone, or like it's transitioning in a way that we're coming alongside them, and still, you know, if I still say this, it's still that's that's gonna be the deal.
Um, but like the tone of it, the the curiosities kicking in from our side more.
I was sharing that with them before one our one of our mentor couples.
We asked them one time who had already raised their kids, and I just said, Well, you know, looking back on it, what would you do differently?
And she said, I I should have stopped talking.
She said, and I just needed to ask more questions.
When they were teenagers, they she they had already heard all my lessons.
I needed to start to ask more questions, become more curious, and then just find those little moments every once in a while where I could just put out just a little lesson, but you know, like season that.
Use a little seasoning, like that's all that is.
All right, let's stretch real quick.
All right, so uh we all sent in great, really good questions.
These are great questions.
When we read them, we're like, these are these are real questions.
And so we really appreciated that they were real questions.
Um and you'll see what I mean by that.
Like, because um we're gonna get into some really, really good stuff that I think is just really vital and it's it's real life.
You know, it's real life.
It's not us pretending like we have it all together or that any of us is gonna have all of our parenting together.
All right, the first question is this my child is struggling with their faith and aren't sure if they believe in God anymore.
They've said they don't want to talk about it and want to figure it out on their own without being influenced.
How do I help them see that Christ is the only way?
I'll let y'all run at it first, and then I can pastorally speak to it in a second.
Did you have something?
Okay.
Yeah, this is a tough question.
So can you actually hand me that?
Because they're on there, right?
And my my first thought to it was is how old is the child?
Yeah.
Because that's a very it's that's a very big difference if we're talking about and so I think we just need to recognize that through the lens of like a teenager.
Yeah, so I'm thinking teenager, but I think even if there's a 17-year-old and there's a 13 or 14-year-old, even that can is feels different to me.
But we're gonna just do our best here.
Okay.
Well, and this is where like reading this question for me, I go into my therapy mode, like I did with you, of kind of tell me more.
But obviously, we don't know a lot.
Um, for me though, I dive into like it says that they don't want to talk about it, right?
And I think that kind of goes back to, and I'm that's a little off topic for the question, but again, I'm curious like why they don't want to talk about it.
And I am kind of wondering if it might be related to what we talked about of like they already know what mom and dad are gonna say.
So it's kind of like the communication lines are already shut down, is what I'm kind of hearing.
And unfortunately, like it does make it a tougher process to then open up those communication lines again.
Because when we are talking about something as important as your child's faith, that can be really, really, really overwhelming when you're like, Oh, my child is saying that they aren't even sure if they believe in God anymore.
And then on top of that, the communication lines have already been shut down, so we can't even talk about it.
And this is where I think going to what RJ said about being curious, it's like when we're thinking about raising healthy adults, this is a developmental period where teens are gonna, I'm I'm gonna assume this is a teenager, maybe like a high schooler.
Um they are discovering who they are, they're discovering who they what they believe and their beliefs and their values.
And a lot of the time it's actually really developmentally normal.
I do want to kind of normalize, not for everybody, but there's a sort of like pushing away from mom and dad and what they believe because they're making their faith their own.
They want their beliefs to be their own.
And I would argue that you, as their mom and dad, like want them to have strong beliefs and faith of their own, not just yours.
And RJ and I were talking about this question too, and I was thinking to myself, like, I I love my mom and dad, I have amazing parents, strong Christian family, but even I have differentiated beliefs from them now.
Like, I would argue probably everybody in here has some beliefs that are different than your parents.
And so I think the cool thing about therapy is like you are bringing in a professional, but like an objective party to come in and really serve as like a mediator between you and your kid, which is like what I do in family therapy.
Um, but to point those things out, like let's zoom out.
And when we're talking about the greater purpose of raising like adultable, um, you know, emotionally healthy, functioning adults in society that are gonna be productive, like their faith and their spirituality is really important.
But what I see as being really normal is I'm gonna push against what mom and dad are saying, so I can kind of discover mine.
And often I see a lot of boomeranging.
So, you know, they're gonna kind of come back around.
But the more that I see parents really digging their heels in, you know, all of the communication lines are shut.
That's making it worse.
They're gonna dig their heels in more too.
We got a power struggle going on as therapy language, and it's gonna make it, I think, a little bit harder for them to boomerang around.
So, did you want to speak to that?
Yeah, so I'll say this too, because I I use this a lot in counseling and I try and take people through something very simple.
Um, in this particular situation, like you're you're totally right.
Like, I think trying to force like the teen or whatever to just okay, well, you're gonna come to more church, or you're gonna go to youth group, you're gonna you have to do all these things, and that can be part of y'all's boundaries, but um from a parenting kind of lens of it, and from uh just the lens that I use, I I take them through three steps, and it's control what you can control.
And really that's that's you, and you sometimes, right?
Like our emotions can get the best of us.
And so control what we can actually control, and that's well, in this situation, like you can pray for your kid, you can you can do uh you can do a lot of stuff, though it feels like this may be out of control.
Um, the second part is do what you need to do to be healthy spiritually, mentally, emotionally, relationally, um, physically, like be the healthiest version of yourself.
That's always gonna make things easier.
And then lastly, trust God with the outcomes.
Like those are the three simplest things.
And if in any situation where things feel out of control, like you feel like, oh, I can't do this, or I what focus what you can.
And so, yeah, that's gotta be tough.
Uh, I haven't had to experience that with my own daughter, but like I can't imagine what what that would feel like.
But I I would try myself to say, like, okay, what can I do?
Well, I can pray for her, I can I can talk to my friends and support about it, I can talk to Russ, you know, like I think there's a core question.
The core question is do I believe that my child is God's or do I not?
If I don't, and I believe all this is about their commitment to God, even in a given season, I'm gonna be a mess.
I'm gonna pressurize, I'm gonna dig heels in, I'm gonna form arguments for the existence of God, and it's not gonna help.
Like, it's not gonna help.
Now, if I believe that my child is God's child, and that there are gonna be seasons when they're going through different identity formation, and they read an article online written by a brilliant atheist, and it was a nice short one-page article, and it changed their life, and it's gonna change their life for the next 18 months.
And you being secure enough of that you don't have to convince them of something, they already know what you believe, and being that you've been giving them permission for their own faith journey, that it's gonna come out of your families, like you've born into a family that has a certain faith, in time you will form your own faith, that they already know this, but it's your starting point that your child is God's, and hey, I I just I want to talk about what you're learning.
You're learning something.
I want to I'm not here to convince you of belief at this point.
You're you're 15, you're 16, you've got a brain that's working.
They need to know that you're able to operate in that zone with them without judgment.
And now, if you've been operating in pressurized judgment, you got a little work to do to undo that for them to trust you to get to that point because they're just gonna be worried you're there to convince them to believe in God, which you can't do anyways, right?
Like, so you taking it off the table, you don't it don't even hurt you at all.
Like, just take it off.
It's not helpful.
Um, and what I found, even meeting with people, when I meet with people who are doubting God's existence, or they don't know if they believe in God anymore, or they never believed in God, as soon as I give them permission to not believe in God and say, Oh, that's that's interesting, you know, or to be like, oh, that's so fascinating.
Tell me, tell me about that.
What's that what's that been like?
You know, like, and they get they understand like I'm not there to pressurize this conversation and to like c like try to cause something.
Like now suddenly there's a suddenly the relationship that you wanted originally like is there, um, which is really hard parentally to to like depressurize yourself because you want them to believe in something or you want something out of them, but like the the way the their it's first of all, it's gonna be their faith journey anyways.
Um, but you you can't even do it, you can't even cause that.
It'll only be more hurtful.
All right, next question.
Uh, if my child is dressing a certain way or style to gain peer approval, pushing gender stereotypes, dressing goth or emo, deviating from traditional gender dress because of insecurity, how can I help him or her to be confident in who God created them to be and not let them just be dictated by other people?
Yeah.
I think you used to be goth, right?
So I so for time reason, Jonathan, you handle this one.
Let's just have one person.
Yeah.
Um we're gonna do one person per question because I want to leave a few minutes.
So we have 10 minutes to cover a few questions, and so we're just gonna do one at a time.
All right, good.
Yeah, I mean, this may be a dissatisfactory answer, and it's probably gonna be pretty quick, but I would say it's a little bit similar to the first question.
It's it looks like, hey, I I've noticed there's been a change.
I'm kind of curious about that change.
I'd like to know more and where this is coming from.
Like, why are you doing this?
I mean, that's a typical therapist question.
You're like, man, how do you make that look that so easy?
It's years and years of practice.
But it's that type of language, right?
It's open-ended.
Hey, I've noticed this, like there's been a change, I'm curious about it, I'd like to know more.
And when your kid hears that, when we are seen as anybody, human, when we are seen, man, that feels good.
And we lean into that.
And when our parent sees us, that means that much more.
And that is going to create a ground for communication, which is where we're hoping to be to know our kid more, to model for them, to love them.
And I think being curious and showing them that we see them because we all want to be seen.
That's great.
What do children or teens in this generation desperately want parents to understand about them, of what's unique about them?
How and how do we, as parents, uh I guess a separate question, how do we exasperate our children most frequently?
So these are related.
What what does the child and the student want us to know?
Like what are y'all hearing in in your room, in your special little rooms?
What are you hearing?
And then how are we exasperating them?
Oh, you got it.
Yeah, I mean, again.
Maybe a dissatisfactory answer, but I would say it's pretty similar to the last one.
It's and you're gonna be like, man, when is this guy giving me a real answer?
No, I we all again, we all want to be seen, especially Gen Z.
Gen Z wants to be accepted.
Not only seen, they want to be accepted.
We all want to be accepted, but they that much more than I've seen in the room.
It is when I'm in with them in there with counseling, one of the reasons why so many Gen Zers also come to counseling is because it's a free space where they feel accepted.
Not free.
It is not not a R practice.
It's free to them.
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
It is a place where they feel free and accepted.
There's a key word in there.
Where they feel free and accepted.
But how do we exasperate?
How do parents typically exasperate their children?
Yeah.
I think they bug them uh again by trying to not listen, but I'm going to come to you, I'm gonna come and have precocked, ready, loaded, ready answers.
I'm not really looking at you, I want you to see me, and I want to bring what I have onto you.
There's not to get into a huge communication psychoeducation, but there's four models of communication: there's aggressive, there's assertive, there's passive, and there's passive aggressive.
Aggressive is when I take what I believe onto you.
Passive is where I'm not engaging this, I'm indirectly engaging it.
Passive is aggressive is where I'm gonna direct indirectly engage it, but with some attitude.
And then assertive is where I can communicate my wants and my needs effectively.
And when we can do that with our kids, it gives them the permission to do that back to us.
So I think there's some permission, openness, and safety if that.
That's great.
What do you do when you find your child posting content on hidden social media accounts that you would not approve of?
So I think that's a very practical question.
I mean, there's the, yeah, we're gonna be curious.
Hey, I found this.
Let me practice.
Can I practice?
Okay.
Hey, I've found this.
Um, this doesn't look great.
Um it I'm very upset.
Can you tell me more about this?
Tell me more.
That was great, Russ.
That was great.
I need some work, apparently.
Couldn't even do it.
Um but what are we like very so we're gonna have a conversation, try to engage the heart with some open-ended questions to figure out like what's what's going on with you?
Like, like where where are we at in relationship here?
What's what's causing this?
But then practically, I think parents can feel very handcuffed the fact that my 13 year old knows a lot more about technology than I do at this point.
I use her to help me with my phone.
So that's where we're at, you know?
Um, so if I become, I can't just hand I can't even attempt to try to handcuff her.
Because it won't work.
She she'll always know 10 workarounds I don't know.
Yeah.
So help us out with that.
I think a big a big thing is like we can approach this from like the heart the head, and then we can approach this from like the heart of it.
And that is kind of how I see it being different.
So like the head of it is like the conversation that you said, and like, hey, here are and this is the way I see most parents kind of approaching it is like, were you not thinking?
Like there, here's 50 reasons why this is awful and gonna ruin your future, and and a lot of shame, yeah.
But the thing is that we have to remember too, is that brain is not fully developed until 25, which the prefrontal cortex is what does all of the decision making.
And so, like, teenagers don't have the capacity, college students don't really have the capacity fully yet.
They do have the ability, but it takes, it's harder, it's like harder to do to make good decisions, and specifically long-term planning decisions.
And so, like, a teenager isn't really thinking about the job that she's gonna want at 27 and how that photo probably isn't gonna be great for that job interview 15 years from now.
But you as mom and dad are thinking that.
So I think there's ways to like have the conversation at the HAD level, and it's like we need to educate our kids like with the social dilemma and things like that, and hey, this is how this could potentially impact you.
I think practically we set boundaries for them.
So, like you were talking about earlier, like age-appropriate boundaries for what they can and can't do.
I think that we need to address the heart of it, which the heart is like there is some reason why that kid is doing that.
I mean, because I was a kid, I didn't do that, you know, like not every not everybody's doing that.
So there's something going on in there, like there's some, and that's I mean, that's partially the million-dollar question.
Like, that's why we have we will have jobs forever, you know what I mean?
Like, because it's very hard to know what is going on that's causing that.
It could be a self-esteem thing, it could be a peer pressure thing.
I mean, I've heard it all.
So, you know, million different reasons why kids will do what they do like that.
Um, but I think that's kind of practically like, okay, you've found this, so yeah, the conversation, like, here's 10 million reasons.
I mean, you probably want to have some consequences and boundaries for that, because that's a clear violation of like the boundaries.
Um, but then I think that we do need to address like the heart issue, otherwise it's gonna continue to happen.
And that's why that's what we're talking about when we're talking about raising emotionally healthy adults, because I know uh 35-year-olds that'll do that.
Uh, I know 50-year-olds that will send inappropriate pictures to people.
And so it's not just like a kid teen issue, it's like seriously, like a head and a heart issue.
And you know, if a 50-year-old is doing that, the boundary is like what I'm thinking about, they're gonna go to jail.
Like, that's the boundary, you know.
So I think just like continuing to model that for our kids, like there are boundaries when we do things that are that are not right, that are inappropriate, but then we do need to explore the heart issue of why it's happening.
That's great.
All right, last question we have on our list, and then we'll have about 15 minutes.
Our four-year-old, almost five-year-old daughter has been showing signs of anxiety lately.
We started back to gymnastics after six months hiatus and has only participated in one out of four classes that she's been to.
She's also been weepy when I drop her off at ballet, something that she's been in since August.
How can we help her get past this in the best way?
Okay, I'll do it.
So um, when it comes to littles and anxiety, well, one, we have an amazing child play therapist at our office.
Not me.
Um, but when it comes to anxiety, again, this question is tough because there's so many questions that I would have about it.
Like that's my that's my not direct answer.
Um, did something happen at gymnastics?
Like a lot of the time, anxiety is uh anxiety is good, so anxiety comes from the part of our brain that's protecting us.
Um, it's saying, this is dangerous.
I'm not gonna go do that.
Um, and so if it's a four-year-old, I mean, that's like a very the anxiety part of that fear, fear center is like pretty rudimentary.
So I would, there's so many questions I would have, and that's why it's hard to make this like a direct answer.
But like my brain, because you know, I hear everything, is like, did something bad happen at gymnastics?
And it's like probably maybe okay that they don't want to go back there.
I mean, I don't know, I think worst case scenario.
Um, but another one is like just maybe it's a four-year-old, so that's tough, but kind of like talking about fears is really age appropriate, talking about worries and fears.
When I talk about worries with kids, we talk about them like little buzzing bees that are swarming around our head.
And can we name those bees?
Can we say what those fears are?
Um, that's how I think you could get curious with your little um, but if it's something that they're like adamant about not going, I mean that's kind of a parent decision too.
That even as a therapist, I'd be like, a lot of the time parents will come to me, well, what do we need to do?
Like, well, it totally depends on your family values, it totally depends on you.
I can't tell you what to do, but we can explore that together.
Um, so yeah, that's a tough one.
I'm sorry I'm not answering that direct, but I think I'd be curious about where the anxiety is coming from, and then that would inform like how to move forward.
That's great.
All right.
Follow-up questions you guys have, or questions just total separate questions that you've thought of or you you came with.
We have 15 minutes.
Yeah.
I actually um I get this a lot.
Actually, um, I somebody like a week ago, it was a client I had worked with, and um she just like blatantly told her mom, I don't want to see Nicole anymore.
I want to see a therapist who's not a Christian.
My clients are like very aware that I'm a Christian.
Um it's like kind of on our website.
Um but I think it's it's kind of on our, I mean, it's kind of on our website.
I don't think it says like I'm a Christian.
But um yeah, so I get that a lot, and it's really tricky, and I won't even pretend to say that I know the answer.
I do want to say like I appreciate you sharing that because I imagine that I I mean I I can imagine that's so so so challenging.
Um, and it's something I was gonna say when RJ brought this up is like even praying for your kiddos to have people other people to come into their life that are Christian influences, like maybe it doesn't need to be the therapist.
Um, how old did you say, Shia?
Well, and I think that's kind of different.
Like, okay, if I was like consulting with you right now, I mean, as long as you're like paying for the therapy and she's like younger, I think that there's like a benefit of you negotiating like who she's gonna go see.
So do we need to go to like the biblical counselor?
Like, no, no, no.
But like maybe I a lot of teens like to come to our office, and I work with a lot of like LGBTQ teens and you know, Christian, non-Christian, because we're not like a super overly like Christian practice, and so they'll be it kind of makes the parent happy and the kid happy, you know.
Um, and maybe we could talk about that now.
Obviously, if she's like 17, 18, 19, completely different story.
Um, but I would say pray like praying for them to have like godly influences that come into their life in other weird ways, like maybe it's a coach, or maybe it's not gonna be an overtly like Christian environment.
But I so I'm I I know I'm going way off the box here, but she's open to counseling?
Yeah, she's anyhow.
She's okay.
She had one, but so what I would I mean, yeah.
So what I would consider is like maybe giving her a couple options and like sitting down with her and talking through her and saying, like, hey, you read these and you pick, and there's I don't know of any goth therapists that like are gonna and I'm not trying to make it.
But you probably have to, you probably you'd have to weed out any super Christian counselors.
I mean you'd have to find a counselor who is a Christian, right?
That's that's so it's gonna be acceptable to her, but acceptable to you.
Yeah.
And like explicit and implicit Christian counseling is very different, right?
So I would say that like we kind of go from the lens of what the client needs.
Like we're not gonna try and convert anybody or anything like that, but if that's something that a client needs and is willing to talk about, then we do.
And if they don't, then we love them from a Christian lens and we talk to them through that, but not with the same language.
Um, if that makes sense.
Yeah, all all truth is God's truth, and we can counsel from that perspective without quoting chapter and verse.
Um, but at the same time, I I think this actually goes back to something we've been probably missing throughout a lot of these questions, is trying as best we can to find a compromise.
And a compromise is where both parties are giving up something and receiving something, and you are the parent, and we are going to be giving less than they should be giving because they're the kid, and so we have the we're the adult, our our frontal cortexes are fully formed, right?
Mostly, some of us.
Um and so there is an aspect though of like, hey, I am willing to move a little bit towards you, but I also need some willingness for you to move towards me and to find some kind of middle ground.
I'm sure you may have done this, but I think then creating options of like, hey, I'm willing for you to c maybe go see these five, and then you can choose from there.
I don't know, but that's a really hard space.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I think maybe what I hear even a little bit from what you're saying is the the stigma of counseling in general.
And it's like counseling is a place where we don't always have to go when we're not doing well, right?
In counseling, I get to I'm very grateful for the space that I have with my clients where we get to celebrate successes.
And some of my high schoolers that are going to college, it's like, oh my gosh, they brought in their acceptance letter and they're like jumping up and down in the room, and it's a lot of fun.
But it is a place where we can have an objective relationship, someone who is going to be non-judgmental, always accept us no matter what.
And maybe it is an opportunity of like, hey, there is a season.
Counseling is also we have weird jobs.
It is definitely weird to begin with.
But the other weird aspect is that we are both trying to make and make a living for ourselves and retain clients, but also work ourselves out of a job with a client.
It is not my intention that every single client I see should be coming weekly or twice a week or even every other week.
There is a decrease of frequency within counseling.
There always should be, in my opinion.
And maybe it is like, hey, we've been a little bit more anxious lately.
Maybe we just go for a season, and maybe it's for a few sessions and it's actually planting seeds and a good healthy experiences for counseling.
So that way when there are things that come up further later in life that are a little bit more severe, I have something to point back to and say, ooh, that was actually a good experience.
I'm gonna go back to it.
Um I don't know if that helps answer the question, but well, yeah, like for me, my question would be like, what is the fear or the concern behind the question?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's what happens a lot with families that I work with.
I used to work with a lot more littles, and I don't as much anymore.
But you know, if you like Jonathan was saying, therapy can be really short term.
You know, you have a parent appointment, and what's really cool with a lot of the parents that I work with is a lot more is even gained from the parent sessions.
So I I call them like parent coaching, but it's just like the parent sessions of kind of giving you some tools as mom to like this is maybe what to look for.
This sounds kind of normal.
This maybe doesn't sound as normal.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Like from a professional who's hearing what you're seeing and working with you and partnering with you to kind of navigate that for a season.
And then, like a lot of the littles that I used to work with, same thing.
You know, we have a few sessions together, we get some good kind of tools and like some things set in place with mom and dad.
And then, yeah, like a year later, they want to come back and see see you again.
Or can I go and I'll get the email?
You know, she wants to come back and see you again.
This is this came up.
Um, but I love what you're talking about as answering your question about like patterns versus maybe specific anxiety.
I would I would encourage you maybe even if you're not already, not to get uh too crazy about it, but like maybe to start tracking like the frequency.
And is this happening more days than not?
Is this uh happening, are we seeing any themes or patterns around it's always at ballet class or you know, whatever?
Because that's what I that's what I as a therapist would ask for anyway.
So if you kind of start doing that and maybe go in and see somebody um and kind of bring that already, like because we are looking for like what are some of the themes?
Like, is this happening more days than not?
Like the frequency, the duration, like all of those things.
So yeah.
I hope that helps.
I think it's like it's such a balance, right?
Is what I'm hearing you say, like a balance between like validating those feelings and like listening and being there.
Like I'm thinking for your girls, like like how amazing that they have you, you know, who's there to like I mean, truly, like who's there to listen to them and be there for them.
But also like maybe encouraging, um, we don't want to dismiss it, like, which I don't I'm not hearing that you're doing that, but maybe encouraging, like, hey, uh, when and and modeling that.
So what do you know?
I would say, what do you do when you get really overwhelmed?
Do you journal?
Do you pray?
Like, do you go, does mom go and take a walk?
Like, I know I'm like, I get on my my little Peloton and work it out.
Um, so you know, what do you model?
And then maybe encouraging your girls to kind of find some of those like coping skills.
So if it's a really overwhelming day, like let's talk about it, let's cry it out.
But then maybe they need like a 15-minute little journal break.
And you're modeling that, but you're also encouraging them in those healthy coping skills that they're gonna use in college, that they're gonna use one day later on.
Um, and the other thing I'll say, I say this to parents a lot, but I think of it like the military.
So, you know, right now you're in the marines and you are like in the trenches.
Are Marines in trenches?
I don't know, but you're like in the trenches, it's exhausting, you know.
And then one day you're gonna be in the reserves and your girls will call you when they need you, like I do with my mom all the time.
Um, and so it is draining.
Like I want to validate and normalize that too, because like you're in the middle of it right now.
Um, and everything that you're doing is helping to set them up to not not need you as much one day, which is gonna be really cool.
So just encouraging them to like lean on God or journal or like whatever they need to do, um, and maybe you guys explore that together is like what would be helpful for them having a conversation about it.
One last question.
I would say to me, it's similar to like an on-ramp, you know, the same thing we're talking about with other boundaries or social media.
So maybe if there's um small ways that you can start handing some stuff off to her, again, like we don't want to like overload and then we have a big failure, and like, you know, that pours into like, oh my gosh, I'm an awful person, shame.
But if there's kind of like small things that you can start to navigate with her, like maybe keeping a planner like with school or helping her navigate her backpack and like organizing that, folding her clothes, you know, not everything all at once, but if there's like the best thing to do is like baby stepping.
So we don't want to, I I know I said it earlier, but we don't want to like merge onto 75 like all at once.
We want to have kind of like this guided on-ramp.
And so I would encourage you, like, the thing that I do when I'm meeting with parents is like maybe having like a mom and dad meeting of like what can we brainstorm like some different ideas that we have, things that would help her be more organized, things we could pass off to her, and then maybe you kind of bring those at the more like negotiation type meeting.
I know you said she's younger, but um, and let her kind of pick out of mom and dad's list.
Same thing with finding the counselor, you know, you kind of have the big list, and then let her kind of pick out what works for her, and then continue to add on maybe some more things as she's getting those things down.
The only thing that I would add too is I think that like the culture that we're in is so busy, busy, busy go, go, go, sign your kids up for everything.
And maybe just taking a moment for us to like slow down and say, like, the kid doesn't need to be in everything.
We don't need to put so much pressure because we're trying to compare them to what our neighbors' kids are doing, what other family kids are doing.
But like, is that do we want to raise kids that think like we do with how busy we are and how much we push that?
Because if we don't want to do that, then let's talk about it as a family and let's maybe it's like, hey, maybe we don't, maybe we don't need to do soccer this season, you know, like taking the time to actually be intentional about that instead of just never stopping, never slowing down.
I mean, we see it in burnout in adults, we see it burnout in kids, um, to where they quit the things that they used to love because they're doing so much.
I mean, even my daughter, at times she's like, she does too much, and like she'll she'll she gets extremely exhausted and she's 13, so we're gonna get a little mood, right?
Like, a lot of mood sometimes, but that part of that's on us too, and saying, like, maybe we need to slow down a little bit.
Like, I think a good message for all of us and the parents included is like, man, we need that time to slow down, we need that time to rest, we need that time to realign and say, like, what's really important to us?
What do we want to impart onto our kids and what how do we want to live our lives?
We're the models, they're gonna follow what we follow.
If we act chaotic, and you know, when people ask us how we're doing, we say we're busy and we act exhausted.
That's normal for them, right?
They're learning that the normal is busy, exhausted, overrun, never slowing down.
So think for yourselves like what do I how do I want my kids to live past this?
And if if it's different than I'm doing now, like maybe I need to make some changes myself.
Yeah, more things is not always better.
It is being intentional with our time, being intentional with them, the time that we have with them.
I think the other thing when we are creating those boundaries, something I would encourage us to do is to have that discussion together and trying to, again, compromise as best we can, getting their buy-in and what we're choosing to do, and then modeling, okay, I'm willing to move a little bit and then have them move towards us, right?
When we talk about boundaries, it's trying to create that boundary together.
And then something like Nicole was saying is from a previously chosen list, right?
Similar to the therapist, it's like we chose these six, you get the freedom of choosing from these six.
And age appropriateness within that choice.
It's like with uh my three five-year-old niece, it's like, do you want to wear this yellow shirt or this red shirt?
And it's like, oh, I really want to wear the red shirt.
Great, you get to wear the red shirt.
And it's like, do you want to wear the pink bottoms or the black bottoms?
Black.
Okay, cool.
You now you've picked your outfit, but I've kind of helped and guided you pick that outfit.
And that's for my little niece.
But and then what does that look like for a preteen?
It's okay, you've got all of these different things.
What do you want to be, you know, in control of within your schedule?
I want to be in control of when I hang out with my my friend.
Okay, that's great.
Let's talk through that and kind of then working through and coming to those decisions together.
That's great.
Thank you.
All right, thank you for being here.
Let me pray for you guys uh and myself and all of us, real quick.
God, thank you that you have called us to parent well.
Help us.
We need help.
We need your grace and mercy upon ourselves first.
Help us to be uh parents of truth and grace and mercy to our children.
Help us to love them well, help us to release them to you in greater ways.
Praise in Jesus' name.
Amen.
Thanks for being here.
Have a good week.