WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.199 What you been doing? 00:00:01.600 --> 00:00:05.200 That's a uh picture of a friend painted years ago, good friend. 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:19.679 So um walking, walking and talking uh to pastors in Edinburgh and Northern Ireland and Manchester, which is fun, and um get a video for the Manchester Church. 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:28.239 Tomorrow night, I'm speaking at a Seventh-day Adventist Church down in Orlando, doing a uh zoom in. 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:30.800 Um, it's just wild. 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:46.159 I'm doing all kinds of I'm preaching next Sunday at a record the sermon next week, but Redemption City, it's a really good uh kind of um gospel Southern Baptist Church here in town where I don't know if you know the name, Twilla Newbell. 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:49.520 Twilla, she writes for a lot of gospel coalition stuff. 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:50.000 Okay. 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:51.359 A lot a lot of folk there. 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:54.159 Anyway, so I'm just yeah, I am. 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:55.840 Well, what are you doing day to day? 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:57.359 What's a day what's uh what's a normal day? 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:02.000 Is I'll get up on normal four in the morning and uh rise. 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:03.280 Is that an alarm? 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:04.400 I mean that's super early. 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:07.680 Is that a is that no, I automatically wake up. 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:28.719 So I'll do my prayer, usually takes an hour for that, then I'll um pray some, think about the day, try to get out on my first walk about 6:30 in the morning, walk five miles, uh, make early morning calls, call UK guys during that time because they're six hours ahead. 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:33.920 Um come back, uh hang out with Darlene some. 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:36.480 Uh what time will she wake up? 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:39.280 Well, it varies, depends on what time she goes down. 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:42.959 If it's three in the morning, it might be 11 when she uh approves. 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:46.640 So she gets into binge watching series. 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:53.519 We are re-watching Doc Martin again now, so that that can that can that can go into early morning. 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:58.239 So and then what time's your what time's your nap time? 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:19.360 It is about uh, I will probably after we finish, because we've got some more rain bands coming through, I'll go walk again, return some calls, and then uh probably take a nap about three and for about 25 minutes or so, and then I'll probably be in bed by about 9:30 tonight. 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:20.000 Okay. 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:24.960 So it's I mean, it's it's really uh uh a good routine. 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:26.000 I mean, I stay busy. 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:36.879 I get I've I'm actually in interacting with more people now than any time in my life, and but like you and I've chatted, as introverts, it's great because you're not with them. 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:41.360 You know, you can't you're more in control of your space and everything. 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:45.280 Yeah, it's it can be an introvert's dream to our own demise. 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:46.159 Uh exactly. 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:48.560 Because when it's just back to normal, that's right. 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:58.800 I know and what extroverts don't understand is that us introverts, while we have really enjoyed the last month or six weeks, we still miss people. 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.319 It it doesn't have to it has nothing to do with us not missing people. 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:11.039 We really just miss people, but it's just the the value and the slowness is uh and or just having our controlling our own space and time. 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:12.159 Yes, exactly. 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:13.840 Very, very appealing. 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.360 Um some of that's healthy and some of that's selfish. 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:18.560 Yeah, exactly. 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:31.360 No, I I I get the selfish part, but uh and then for me, I'm on this side of where you are now, so I can I've got the luxury of doing it because my schedule allows me. 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:37.439 I don't I don't have I don't have office hours, I don't have to lead a staff, I don't have that kind of stuff. 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:43.759 So well, I got you talking about it without us jumping in, this idea of pace of grace. 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:58.560 I mean, you see your day, and it even sounds like your day has a mix of uh activity, but then it is from an overarching point of view throughout the day, is definitely a particular pacing that you have. 00:03:59.039 --> 00:03:59.439 Absolutely. 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:05.120 I would say you use the term a pace of grace, what is it that you mean? 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:05.919 Right. 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:14.080 I never was big NASCAR Bubba guy, but I do know that in NASCAR and in Indy 500, they have a pace car, right? 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:28.319 So you got a pace car that serves the purpose of helping those uh in that very specific calling to go at a certain speed and in a certain direction. 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:36.399 So, in some ways, a pace car functions to say we're gonna go in this direction for this long. 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:40.480 And it's really connected to very important reasons, trust me. 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:55.439 So, you know, it's not the best metaphor in the world, but uh if we're not, you know, we're we're all following some kind of pace car, Russ, where there's uh there's drivenness, there's calledness. 00:04:55.759 --> 00:05:00.319 Someone is setting the pace for how I do life. 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:12.720 And I think living at the pace of grace would say, how does the how is the gospel the ultimate pace car, both in terms of direction and in speed, you know, if that makes sense? 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:33.759 Uh again, every metaphor is insufficient, but to me, the gospel calls us to live at a certain pace that has a very clear destination in view, but also a unique orientation towards life that changes the price tags and uh regulates the pace at which we go. 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:56.079 Yeah, what comes to mind for me as you talk about that is that as we become more secure in our identity in Jesus and as our in our belovedness, that we become equipped to be able to say no to certain things uh because they're not as important to us or they're not a part of our calledness. 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:57.759 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:05:57.920 --> 00:05:58.639 No, you're right. 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:20.800 No, it is uh, you know, maybe belovedness is the pace car, uh, i.e., um if I'm if I'm if I'm driven, if if I'm franic, if I'm anxious, if I can't sit still, uh that would be an example of someone that does not have peace at their core, and therefore they might be going in 10 different directions. 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:27.279 They might be, you know, having no regulator that would say, What do I want? 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:28.079 Who am I? 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:29.120 Where am I going? 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:34.560 And certainly our belovedness in Christ recalibrates almost everything. 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:36.160 What do you think? 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:41.920 I think a lot of people in the last six weeks, with the COVID crisis, have been forced into a slower pace. 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:43.199 Not everybody. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:54.639 Some people's work dramatically picked up as they had to reorganize their staff or their work or uh or their family, and all of a sudden they're busy within their household with their kids more. 00:06:54.800 --> 00:07:05.439 But there's certain aspects that our society is much slower, and many of our lives is much slower because activities and we just can't leave. 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:09.680 What do you think this slowness has been teaching us? 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:28.800 Well, if we are learners, uh, I think that this new pace brought on by this extraordinary um season is is forcing us to say, um, so what does matter to me? 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:39.279 Uh what what what's refreshing about the fact that when I go on a walk, I'm waving at the same people every day that I live close to but never knew. 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:49.519 You know, I think that this uh this uh different pace we're all living at, uh, it's inviting us towards a relational awareness. 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:56.480 It's inviting us to hearing far more birds than ever because there aren't as many cars on the road. 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:09.120 So, you know, there's many levels of what we're what what we're hearing and being aware of that a change of pace gives us an incredible opportunity to think, what do I really want? 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:19.120 Yeah, because there's certainly been certain uh parts of my life and my family's life that I I have not missed at all. 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:20.399 I really haven't. 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:24.000 And uh and I'll be sad when they come back in. 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:35.840 When they come back in and busy our schedules, I'll actually be sad because it's been a real delight, especially for our rhythm, where pretty much the day-to-day feels kind of normal. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:43.120 I mean, the girls are doing school in their playroom rather than going to school, but they still do school till after lunch. 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:49.200 They do some chores, and I still go to work either in our bonus room or walk over to the church building. 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:51.120 So some of that structurally is the same. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:09:06.559 To us, the biggest differential is at about 4 p.m., I'm done with work because work is just faster because there's not as many relational dynamics and meetings, and then at 4 p.m., there's nothing else going on. 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:21.840 And there's been this incredible, delightful family time and spring weather here in the south, and it's been, we have really, really loved it that we're not driving around and sitting in carpool lines and uh showing up at activities. 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:29.919 I know it won't last forever, but I have really, really loved uh that part of each day. 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:48.480 Well, I think what I'm hearing you say, among other things, is you know, God throughout his storybook, his scripture, the Bible, in many ways is constantly saying to us, be still and know that I am God. 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:58.320 So, in other words, there's something about being forced to slow down that gives me a chance to begin to think about this. 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:07.759 God of all grace is calling me not to end activity, but to better investments of heart. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:17.840 You know, um when the Lord says, be still and know that I am God, uh, that's not your teacher telling you to get back in your seat and shut up. 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:19.919 It's no, I'm a good God. 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:33.600 You know, maybe slowing down is gonna give um us an opportunity, Russ, to begin to rethink how we think about who God is and and is he kind as he claims to be? 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:39.279 Um, does he want fellowship with me or does he want my friendicity and activity? 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:59.360 So I think that what you've described is yeah, look at maybe how some necessary interruptions it's been nice to be away from, but maybe I bring upon myself interruptions that looking down the road a little bit, I may want to fight for the quiet. 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:13.360 I may want to work harder moving forward for more quality listening and meditating and and you know, discovering what God says when his voice is in the things he has made. 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:14.000 Creation. 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:18.960 I mean, I have so enjoyed the color green this spring, like never before. 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:22.799 Because I've been outside more and I pondered it. 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:27.440 So uh yeah, I think it it's it's working for us. 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:33.759 We're not naive uh about the struggles that people have in this pandemic. 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:46.080 Um, but nonetheless, hopefully, you know, we're gonna understand more fully why Jesus says, who by your worrying can add one hour to your life? 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:53.120 Yeah, and that worrying is one part of many of a busy heart. 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:54.080 Yes. 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:55.120 Right. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:12:00.639 So how do you how do you think about the connection between a busy heart and a busy life? 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:11.200 Well, I remember years ago when I first read Richard Foster's book uh on the oh, what was it called? 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:17.600 The not the disciplines of grace, but Richard Foster wrote a wonderful book on spiritual disciplines. 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:25.919 But the opening paragraph in the book said, our culture lives under the curse of muchness and maniness. 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:40.080 And his introduction was, you know, to really even to understand worship, meditation, Christian disciplines is to realize they are a calling to a quiet heart. 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:46.879 And anxiety and fear are the opposite of that quiet heart. 00:12:47.120 --> 00:13:02.320 Um, and so there's just something about I think this season that affords us the opportunity to say, yeah, what where where in have I lost sight of my gold and redoubled my effort? 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:05.200 Where are some things now meaning more to me? 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:12.399 You mentioned something, Russ, about um um being able to be together as a family. 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.600 You know, there's there's all kinds of currency in life, right? 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:25.360 There's there's a crazy stock market that goes up and down, but maybe during the season we're beginning to reassess to say, good conversation. 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:27.919 How can you put a price tag on that? 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:58.879 And maybe my drivenness to make so much money so I can what be busy with getting to the airport to fly to an expensive place, maybe some of the simple pleasures of actually enjoying friends and family and uh maybe these are things that I should put a higher value on and really take the time to enjoy to say, yeah, this this is this is better than some of the other stuff I've been trying to acquire. 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:05.279 Now, so do you think that a busy life always equates to a busy heart? 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:06.159 Yes. 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.440 Well, yes. 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:13.120 I mean, for me, the word busy has become a four-letter word, first of all, because it is. 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.039 There's four letters in it, B-U-S-I. 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:21.360 But I think there's a difference between a busy life and a called life. 00:14:21.519 --> 00:15:01.919 I mean, Russ, you and I and our calling, there's there's a lot of things we need to be about and certain stretches, um, a lot of hours of the day, but you know, um, someone that's able to cultivate, as we talk about in our book, a non-anxious spirit, non-anxious presence can be highly productive, can be involved in many endeavors, but to be around to be around them, you don't sense that they're just in a hurry or treating people like pawns to help me fulfill my idea of success. 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:06.080 So I I don't think busy is bad. 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:11.519 I think frenicity will always work against a quiet heart. 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:23.759 And uh, you know, it's why I think that the apostle Paul in Philippians 3 so good to talk about, you know, there was a time in my life when X, Y, and Z used to matter a lot to me. 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:33.679 But now, compared to the excellency of knowing Christ, I consider a lot of those things even like, you know, animal dung. 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:42.799 Now, that's to me, I mean, we knew, we know this the Apostle Paul was a very active man, right? 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:49.519 You know, he he didn't write his letters from uh holding a pina collada uh at Club Med. 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:52.639 He's in house arrest most of the time. 00:15:52.960 --> 00:16:02.960 So you talk about learning about lockdown, talk about some learnings for us in terms of what can it mean for us to have a quiet heart and circumstances we would not choose. 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:10.159 It's Paul that writes to us about here's something that I now value more than otherwise. 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:22.080 And uh so I hope for myself with you, Russ, as well and our friends, that we will take the time not to how soon can we get back to normal? 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:34.559 I hope that as however long some of these dynamics continue this pandemic, we'll do some transvaluing or reassessing what what you know, why am I so tired? 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:36.240 Why am I so anxious? 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:46.159 Why, you know, am I always saying later, as opposed to saying these things matter now? 00:16:46.399 --> 00:17:06.960 And my hope is that in our friendship, in the way we want for our marriages, our children, for me, grandchildren, that we really will see the gift of a lot of this disruption as an opportunity to reassess what we want and how bad do we want it. 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:09.359 That's great. 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:19.599 I I when I think about a busy heart, I always want to wonder why the heart is busy, why my heart is busy when I feel that. 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:35.599 And I feel like that a slower time and certainly the last five or six weeks, because it's been slower, uh, we could we're probably more attuned to if our insides, our hearts are at peace or not. 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:42.720 And so I like that word busy, also like the word itchy, uh for the feeling of what it can feel like. 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:53.519 And I think in that way, what some of us have experienced in the last four or five weeks is that uh a slow life can reveal a very busy heart. 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:57.359 That life can slow down and our hearts can speed up. 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:12.559 And I've experienced that certainly when I swipe right on my phone and read the headlines, and I move from my heart being at a slow, quiet pace to being incredibly, incredibly frantic and busy. 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.960 Um, and there's been those fluctuations. 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:39.839 Uh, but I think a slower life, the goodness of a pace of grace for me has been that I'm coming aware of the speed of my heart quicker in order to deal with it, in order to recognize how it is affecting me and my life rather than it driving me without me even being aware of it. 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:42.640 Well, that's so spot on. 00:18:42.799 --> 00:19:05.200 And as you were talking, I was thinking about you know, one of the marks of a well-trained athlete is they have a lower heart rate because they have trained themselves to be able to go longer without literally killing themselves. 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:17.920 You know, their their sitting heart rate has developed a slower pace and it enables them to do the rest of life if it's the intensity of their particular event or whatever else. 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:23.680 And I think living at the pace of grace is more about that. 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:29.920 I mean, the Lord made us to be productive, to fill the earth with his glory, you know. 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:47.599 Uh these are good things to be active, but are we self-aware to know when we are in that frenic place, having no sense of belovedness, no sense of the God who is delighting in us and joining us? 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:54.000 Or by our efforts, are we trying to get the very things that we get freely by grace? 00:19:54.720 --> 00:20:07.359 So, what do we, and kind of to close us up, what does somebody do who in this time is painfully aware that their heart is frantic and busy, what do they do? 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:09.599 I would say a couple of things. 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:19.759 One, uh, you know, as we both have experienced in several years of walking together, some things you're just not going to figure out by yourself. 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:30.000 So I would say to a person that's maybe more aware of that they are have have very little peace on the inside, you know, what's what's a good friend? 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:40.559 What's what are what what what's the community look like that I'm participating in that I can begin to risk the vulnerability to say, you know what, I'm I'm wanting to rethink how I'm doing life. 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.960 I'm wanting to rethink about uh my price tags and values. 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.519 Can we go for a walk and simply talk about this? 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:51.839 So, you know, I think the value of friendship, Russ, is critical. 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:59.599 I think also all of us just in childlike faith, starting by faith, just asking God to show us, you know. 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:05.759 For me, that's translated into a lot of walks because I can't drive to as many places. 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:06.960 I don't have to. 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:14.720 So I'm walking more than ever and spending time dialoguing with the Lord about Lord, show me what's going on in my heart. 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:18.880 You know, what's what's what's what what do you want me to hear? 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.119 And then being quiet enough to listen. 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:30.240 So I think uh, you know, this this isn't for prayer warriors, it's for children crying out to the one who claims to be a loving father. 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:37.440 Lord, show me, help me understand why I can't sit still, help me to understand that you do love me. 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:53.680 So prayer, good friendship, um, maybe even if we're married, um, risking with our spouses, um, sweetheart or honey, uh, what am I like to live with? 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:56.720 You know, what would a healthier, freer me look like? 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:05.039 You know, uh, I would like to rethink, you know, what it means to have a calm core. 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:06.720 You know, what do you see in me? 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:12.640 Uh, you know, and if if I invite people to reflect, they're not as likely to tee off on me. 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:20.079 Uh if you get it, you know, some people are dying to share with us information that unfortunately comes across like criticism. 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:26.880 But if I'm wanting to know, I think friendship, relationship's a good way to start and childlike prayer. 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:28.480 Yeah, that's great. 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.680 And I think that's a good place for us to stop. 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:54.559 And I think, of course, the good news is the gospel in that busy heart, frantic heart, slow heart, quiet heart that God fully knows us and loves us, and we are safe and secure and loved, and uh what what rest and calm that actually brings to know that I can have a frantic heart and he still loves me and he was walking with me. 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:54.960 Absolutely. 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:56.640 That's good. 00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:01.279 All right, well, have a great uh fifth walk of the day. 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:02.000 Absolutely. 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:08.720 I'm gonna go get quiet again out here and uh listen to some more birds and a God that delights in us, Russ. 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:09.680 So absolutely. 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:12.799 All right, hang in there, love you, love you too. 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:13.680 Bye.