One Last Hit Podcast #4 w/ Shelby M. | My Dad Gave Me My First Hit at 12

 Shelby M. grew up watching his father , his hero, wrestle with addiction in Casselberry, Florida. At eleven years old, Shelby ran to the house, grabbed a knife, and cut his father down from a noose in the shed behind their home. A year later, his father sat with him in a truck and gave him his first hit of freebase cocaine.

That moment lit a fire that would burn for decades.

What followed was years of juvenile delinquency, crack, opioids, and a juvenile record he lost count of , but also faith, recovery, and a miraculous near-decade of sobriety. Shelby built a thriving tree business from scratch, married a woman in recovery, had four kids, became a circuit speaker and sponsor in AA, and was flying families out to tell their story in Utah and Colorado. Then his father died. And Shelby drifted  slowly, silently, until Kratom opened a door that led back to cocaine, fentanyl, and meth. Eight detoxes. Four rehabs. More white chips than he can count. And still getting back up.

In this episode, Shelby sits down with Austin to tell the whole story , from the shed in Castleberry to 15 days sober, and what it actually looks like to fall down hard when you know exactly where the door back in is. 

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Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_00 1:18

What is happening, ladies and gentlemen? My name is Austin, host of the One Last Hit Podcast. Thanks for tuning in. And with me today, Mr. Shelby M. Looking like uh he's about to take off on a runway over here, dude. I love your headphones, bro. Good to have you.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Thanks, Austin. I appreciate you uh asking me to be on the show. And uh yeah, I just got these. These are actually the gamer headphones like my son likes to use.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

So yeah, your sound is solid, dude. Yeah, yeah. Actually, do me a favor. Go down to your little here. I'm gonna pause. So Shelby is a very important guy uh in our our recovery community here in Orlando. He's somebody that we all love the living shit out of. And but Shelby has struggled the last couple of years, like like I did, like a whole bunch of us have, right? I mean, I dude, I had over the over 22 years, I think I had seven or eight, you know, relapses after after some sobriety. Like every time I'd get a year or two and then, you know. And so I think where I'd like to start, Shelby, if it's all right, is I'd love to hear from you what these last, you know, I don't know if it's been two or three years or how many years it's been going

Shelby's In-and-Out: The Last Few Years

SPEAKER_00 2:29

on really, but the in and out that's been going on, um, can you can you kind of like I know you had a period of sobriety before, right? Like a long one, like nine, ten years, right? Yeah. And and when when you relapsed after that, when when was that relapse?

SPEAKER_03 2:46

2023.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Okay, so we're talking two and a half, three years. Um, and so what has that in and out looked like over the last couple of years for you, for for your family, everything?

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Um, well, Austin, it's been uh it's been definitely a roller coaster. It's been very uh up and down. A lot of, you know,

8 Detoxes, 4 Rehabs, Too Many White Chips to Count

SPEAKER_03 3:07

I've done a lot of damage. Um I think eight detoxes, four rehabs. Um I don't know how many white chips I've picked up. I lost count. But um but yeah, it's been it's been uh been pretty rough. It's been uh you know, it's made me kind of have to to go back to the drawing board a couple times. And um, you know, so it's not fun.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Is there anything is there anything about that time that like any stories or you know, painful moments about that time that really like kind of stand out to you as as wow, you know, these these could have been catalysts, but but maybe we're catalysts to relapsing again. I don't really know. Uh, but I'm just curious if if you've got anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Oh absolutely. Um, yeah, I mean, kind of looking back over those times uh leading up to when I fell off when I relapsed the first time. Um I had you know almost 10 years.

Drifting From Recovery and Losing His Dad

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Uh my dad had died recently, I think a couple years before that. And um I kind of started to drift away from you know recovery, accountability, um, the guys that you know would call me on my shit, um, being in places where people would, you know, set eyes on me, and I kind of just focused on, you know, I'm gonna do it my way, I'm gonna make money, I'm gonna take care of my family, I'm gonna get the big house and the big car and the big truck and all that stuff. And um, you know, um God, my relationship with God has always been a big part of my life since I was 19. So I tried to do the, you know, me and God are doing doing this thing together, and we don't mean nobody else for probably the last two and a half years of of that last sobriety. And um I got really sick, you know. I got really sick by doing that. Um, and that's about how long it took of not going to meetings and and and just unplugging from that, you know, uh fellowship and that network for me to get to a place where uh taking a drink, and with me it started with Kratom. Um you know, getting to a place where I put something in my body to make me feel better took about two and a half to three years of unplugging from from recovery. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

So yeah, I have a very, very similar story, man. You know, when I had this is just pre-Mexico, right? I had uh seven years of sobriety, had had disconnected just enough, had become reliant on money just enough that picking up Kratom worked, and that ended up culminating over the next two and a half years of me moving to Mexico and ending up homeless and blowing through a million bucks and the whole nine, dude.

Young Shelby: Growing Up in Castleberry, FL

SPEAKER_00 6:02

And so, you know, I for this alcoholic, and it sounds like for you too, man, you know, that that that reminder of who and what we are is uh is a big one, dude. Oh for me, it is.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Yeah, yeah. And I I think uh looking looking back at it, starting to think that I'm you know, I don't have that problem anymore. And I mean it was it was evident. If you asked anybody around me leading up to that relapse, you know, my wife, my kids, people I work with, how's how's Shelby doing? Is he okay? They'd say, uh, you know, that guy needs to take a quailute or something. That guy needs to need to chill the fuck out, man. He's the he's the spaz. He's you know, he's get the ball, get the ball, uh, go, go, go, you know, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? And and and you know, all the signs were there. My wife had been feeling very disconnected from me. Um, I was avoiding at home. I wasn't really present. I'm always, you know, working till 11 o'clock at night, doing emails, thinking I'm carrying the world on my shoulders. And and um I was, you know, alone in it by choice. But that's that's that was my sickness, you know, taking me to that place, getting me off isolated to a place, you know, kind of like how animals do when they, you know, when they're getting ready to die, you know. That's not my sickness likes to do with me.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

And uh, and yeah, so man, it's like you just told my story, man. I don't know if if your sponsor said this to you, but mine did early on. He said, you know, that part in the book where it says the great obsession of every abnormal drinker is he'll someday control and enjoy his drinking. Right. And he likened this to he said, you know, life's really the same way. If I'm the one that has to be in control of it, man, there is just no way that I'm enjoying it. And if I'm enjoying it, it's because I've given up control, you know, and that really like uh I never forgot that. I never forgot that, man. So um, all right, so we're up to current day. Let's go back to uh young Shelby. If you had a sitcom, we'd call it Young Shelby. Uh, where where did you grow up, man? Castlebury, Florida. Castleberry, wow, you've moved so far throughout your lifetime.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

I grew up in Castlebury, Florida, right across the street from the place where we meet every Wednesday. In that neighborhood. Wow. Wow. And so we actually, it's a funny story, but we we used to we used to make fun of the guys that would meet at the 12-step programs. We were little prampster kids, you know, and we yeah, we'd go into the building and get surges

Dad's Alcoholism — Watching His Hero Fall

SPEAKER_03 8:31

out of the vending machine, and uh they'd chase us out of there. We'd hang out in the oak tree in the back, smoking cigarettes and stuff like that. But but yeah, my my childhood started there. There's a small house on the corner. Um, my dad was a uh really hard-working guy, you know. I have uh they had five kids, so I have three brothers and a sister. And uh both my mom and dad were were very much about you know work ethic, do a good job for people, build relationships, like the the work ethic and the and the um kind of perfectionism, performative uh way of living, like you're only as good as your last day's work, like was very much ingrained in me from a very young age. Um, I was the oldest out of five kids, and uh my dad was uh struggled a lot with alcoholism and addiction. Um, and it was it was very evident to us as young kids, you know. Um we I remember watching through the window, him getting pulled out of his truck and beat up on the cops, you know, drunk. Uh remember him throwing appliances around the room and breaking stuff, and and uh my mom, you know, just watching her kind of suffer in that and not you know have a way to get out of it. It was it was kind of rough.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Um yeah. Do you you know, before you ever picked up a drink or a drug, like do you have any conscious memory of like what how you felt during that time? Like what were your overwhelming fears? Because I just remembered as a kid, I was high anxiety, you know, I felt like I couldn't make friends, like you know, just there was there was shit that I wanted to get out of, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Excuse me. Um confused, scared, uh angry, trapped, you know, like is this my life? Is this what you know, is this what I have to look forward to? Uh, you know, because I looked up to my my dad, me and him were were really tight towards the end before he died, but um, you know, he was my hero. Like, I never still to this day, I've not met a better uh a better man to swing a hammer, sell a job, uh, shake of hands with, you know, like my dad was my hero, you know, and seeing him, uh, you know, when when your hero falls, the only person you have to look up to, that crushes your whole reality uh as a kid. And I got to a point, you know, before ever even really picking up. I think I I was I was smoking weed by this point, but you know, before I got into

The Kid Who Needed Approval to Feel Worthy

SPEAKER_03 11:10

drugs, I was very much uh approval seeking. Uh how can I get a laugh? How can I do something, you know, jump off a roof with a trash bag, try to parachute, try to get some attention or some approval, or you know, I can, you know, showing everybody I can do everything better than everybody else, like, you know, want to be the fastest guy at track, and the you know, and I got like really good grades, but it was all me trying to earn value, approval, validation, something, you know. And um, and it got to a point I remember coming home from school one day, and my dad uh, you know, I didn't know what methadone

Dad Hangs Himself in the Shed

SPEAKER_03 11:53

was, but my mom had forced my dad's methadone down the toilet. He had busted all of her windows out of her car, and the cops were there, and uh he had ran off somewhere. So the cops leave and he comes back, and uh he had he showed me a couple weeks before that he had had a noose down in the shed. And uh so him and my mom got into it, and and it's me, my brother, my mom, and he goes walking down into the shed, and I knew I could see it in his eyes that he was, you know, he was about to do it. So he he said, I'll be in the shed hanging. And uh he went, stepped up on a bucket, and he hung himself right in front of uh my mom, myself, and my little brother. I think I was about 11. And uh, you know, uh this is about 60 yards from the house. I didn't have any way to cut him down. So my mom and brother are trying to pick up on his legs. And uh so I ran up to the house and got a knife, came down, uh

11 Years Old, a Knife, and Cutting His Father Down

SPEAKER_03 12:50

cut him down. He was just, you know, swinging. And uh and yeah, and and wow, he's he survived, you know. He he was unresponsive at first, but he came back, got bakeracted. And the first thing he said to me when he got back, you know, he had like a red ring around his neck, his eyes were all bloodshot. Was like, why'd you do that? You know, why'd you cut me down? And uh he didn't want to live, you know, and I couldn't understand how somebody with five kids, seemingly successful business, you know, we had jet skis, we would go on the trips, like he would go on these trips uh doing coolant towers in Texas and Louisiana, and he'd come back, you know, he'd make like sixty thousand dollars in two weeks, which was a lot of money back then. Um, but it's a lot of money now, bro.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_04 13:38

Two weeks these days, we blow our nose with that these days.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

But um, but yeah, so so from that point on, I almost took on like a like, oh, I've got to take care of my dad now. I've got to take care of him, you know what I mean? I've got to keep him alive because he's obviously not stable.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

I I have a question uh on that just because that is such a an insanely powerful story that you just told, and I'm kind of you know picturing you and your family and your siblings in my head, and I'm curious. I meant to ask you this earlier, but do you see alcoholism and addiction in your siblings as well? Or is it or were you yeah, yeah, okay. Can you were there ways that I'm sorry to cut you off. Were there ways that you saw this situation like show back up for you later on in life?

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Absolutely, yeah. So um, so I've always been I've seen my my younger brother and my sister, um, they've been in and out of rehabs. They were like me, you know, junkies, crackheads. Um, but they've actually uh been California sober for about 13 years now. And then my two youngest brothers are like little skater punks, you know, they're like like skateboard, got the long hair and the tattoos, and and they like they never got into the hard stuff, you know, they'll smoke and drink, but that's about it. Um suicidal tendencies, all that kind of stuff has popped up in almost all my siblings. For me, I've never actually directly had suicidal thoughts. It's always just been like, let me see if I survive this. You know, like it's more of like a recklessness.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Um, with the work that I do, you know, I've been a tree climber since I was uh 16 and um taking chances that nobody else wants to take, or doing a shot of dope, like, oh, I'm gonna put all this in here, and then you know, if I go, I go, but I've never wanted to, you know, shoot myself or hang myself or anything. I always have like this kind of like false pride, like, oh that's the easy way out, you know. Um just seeing my dad go through it.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

How old were you at that time when that was going on?

SPEAKER_03 16:03

11.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

You were 11, okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

And when did you start smoking weed?

SPEAKER_03 16:09

11.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

11, okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Just before that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

And and so how did it progress from that point? Like, what did middle school look like for you?

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Middle school. Um, I reached a point where, you know, and all this stuff was going on with my dad, and you know, it was bad because he was successful, and then all of a sudden he wasn't. And and the jet skis started disappearing, everything started disappearing, and he would, you know, pretend like he's gonna make a police report and act like somebody stole the stuff, but we knew he was pawning it, you know, and and uh he was always gone. I I went from being uh 4.0 to hanging out with the little gangster kids in middle school, uh smoking pot. And then we got into the core sedents, you know, the triple C's, the Huffin' Freon, uh eating more and glory seeds. I mean, you name it. We were on, you know, all the the uh websites that tell you how to get high off of stuff underneath your freaking kitchen sink. And uh before long, um, the next big shift, I think, was the first time uh because my dad would sit in his truck, he wouldn't come inside, he'd sit in his truck all night outside. We had we had moved from the place over there across my home depot in Castlebury on a lake. So he'd sit down by the lake in his truck and he would shoot cocaine and smoke crap, he would cook his own. And so we'd sit in there and smoke joints while he was doing that. He never let us do it. And one day I'm like, come on, man, you know, and so he uh he gave me my

Dad Gives Him His First Hit of Freebase at 12

SPEAKER_03 17:48

first hit of freebase when I was 12. I was 12 years old, I did my first hit of free base, and uh I fell in love. I fell absolutely in love with it. I was um I found what I thought I was looking for, you know, for a brief moment, you know, ears ringing, face numb, everything just shut off. All this up here shut off, and and I couldn't have been happier than I was in that moment. And no drug has ever made me feel better than that moment. And I've done a lot of crack since then.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

That was the best hit of crack I ever did in my entire life, was when I was 12 years old. Wow, and um, you know, so all the time after that, you know, fast forward, um, and we would take pills and do whatever, basically whatever we could get our hands on was what we were doing. We did the hallucinogenes, uh drinking was always a part of it. Um, we loved to drink. I had actually had periods where I would get off a crack and just try to

Juvenile Arrests, Dropping Out, and the Dog Track

SPEAKER_03 19:01

drink to be more social, you know, like to keep my girlfriend happy or being able to hang out around normal people and be human, you know, because crack's not like a real social drug. Uh you know, here about people going to like a crack party to like hang out and watch the game.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

It's in the closet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

But um, but yeah, so so that progressed, you know, and and as a juvenile, I must have got arrested, I don't know, 22 times. Wow. Uh stealing, went on the run, you know, uh just boosting stuff and and in and out of programs, JDC. Um and then when I was uh 17, I had been messing with the painkillers, you know, a little bit. And I I started uh 17 the first time I injected oxycodone. And and I thought that was my ticket out of being a crackhead. And so I I rode that that thing as long as I could, and then I ended up just doing a bunch of both for a while.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Naturally, yeah, if that makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Um so yeah, and I didn't even know about getting sick, you know, until like one morning, it's like, oh man, I don't feel so good, you know. And uh and I was talking to my dad, I'm like, man, he's like, Oh yeah, you're sick. He's like, if you don't have it, you're sick, you know. You gotta you gotta have it all the time, or else it helps.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah. Well that explain that explains the method and why he was so mad at mom. What was what was mom doing during this time?

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Like, how was she coping with she was trying to keep up with five kids, and you know, she was the one taking me to my court dates and picking me up from the the JBC and taking me to the alternative school when I get kicked out of, you know, I got kicked out of school and then I got kicked out of the alternative school, and then I got kicked out of the school that you get kicked out of when you get kicked out of alternative school. And so eventually you're like at this 12-hour day, uh, sheriff's deputies are are your teachers now, 12 hours a day, and you're in a jump, you're in a jumpsuit. And uh so yeah, very troubled. Uh the juvenile years were very, very troubled.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah. So your childhood even before hitting 18 is what you know some addicts go through in their entire life.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Wow. And so, all right, so you're you're 17. Did you graduate high school? Did you end up graduating and get get a GD or something?

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Uh I did later when I was about 45. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Okay. So what happens after high school?

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Um, so I dropped out at the very start of 10th grade. I'm working at the I'm working at the dog track. My dad's locked up for two years. And uh uh stealing, we me and him and my brother had gone on a run for about six months, and he had got charges, um, grand larceny, grand theft from Orange Seminole and Volusia County. And so he had to go do two years. Um all I had to do, I was I was uh we had warrants and stuff, so we had tried to do the Jesse James thing. And um I ended up having to go to a program for seven months. Okay. Um but yeah, he was dealing with that. I was um working at the dog track and doing tree work at the time. Um every day was drinking, Nattice, Steel Reserve, cheap whiskey and vodka, um lots of drinking, lots of smoking pot, uh, around the social crew, you know. So we had like the social crew, and then I'm in that, but I know what I really want, you know. So every I try to be a normal person, but every week or so, once every two or three weeks, I've just kind of like abandoned, you know, and go do my little crackhead thing in the woods and uh have to Explain it to the girlfriend and you know. Um my my uh there was a lot of fights, um, a lot of drama that went on in that time. We had the same the same shed that my dad hung himself in. It was it was uh infamous in Castlebury. All the kids from Castlebury would come and party in this shed. It was called the shop. He would set it on the front. It's a the shop. Cops would get called every night. There's always fights rolling around in broken beer bottles and you know, just all kind of crazy stuff. So your house was wild. It was wild, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And my mom would kind of just turn a blind eye blind eye to it because she's trying to salvage the other three kids that she's trying to raise and work three jobs and keep up with the mortgage and the this and that. And she kind of looked at it like, well, these two, you know, me and my the next brother down, uh, they're these guys are too far gone. I can't control them. I can't, you know, I don't want them to get locked up, I don't want them to go away. But and um, and then probably about uh what was it? Probably about six or eight months later, my dad gets out. And when he gets out, you know, he's got all the the connections and he does good for a little bit, you know, maybe a month or two, and then one day, you know, he's got that look. And you could always tell my dad, because he would uh he would start trying to do some kind of weird like home repair thing around the house. Like you have that like crackhead face, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

I'm just working on the blinds over here. I'm like looking at it like I'm like, dude, I know you what do you got?

SPEAKER_03 24:51

You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh and so the whole thing just you know started all over again. Um been homeless, lived in hotels a lot through those years, a lot of hotels. Um when I was 19, I was living at my uncle's house on and off because my mom wouldn't have had me, nobody, you know, and uh so we're at the end of our rope. Like we're you know, we've we had this big job at Disney World that we burnt to the ground. Everything we touch, we burn it down. Uh we're ripping people off for tree work, you know, or we're getting deposits and never coming back. We're you know, getting loans from the uncle, getting loans from family. Um, but at least we're not robbing people anymore. And um and we just get to a point. My dad's online looking at this place over in Okody, and he's like, hey, let's he's like, I'm going

Faith-Based Recovery at 19 — Father and Son Walk In Together

SPEAKER_03 25:49

into this place over here. And it was a faith-based uh recovery place, and so I'm like, ah, what the hell? I'll go with you. So we went to this place, and I'm walking in, and I'm completely physically dependent on alcohol, uh, opiates. Uh, I'm on the suboxin. I got suboxin because you know, people run out of the other stuff, so we always gotta have suboxin on you just so you don't get sick. Um and so we go to this place, uh, and we're raging crackheads, raging crackheads. And so walk into this place means people start praying over as soon as we come in the door, and they're praying, they're laying hands on us, and I'm like, this is weird. I was raised Catholic, you know. Yeah, yeah. You're not doing that, all that stuff, and so, but I don't remember having any physical withdrawals after that. Wow, these people prayed for us, and we went into this place for uh seven seven months we were there, and it was a faith-based place, and they taught you all about you know, scripture and how to pray and how to do this and spiritual warfare, and uh, you know, there were some elements that you know um were a little cultish, but I didn't know nothing at the time. But that's that's where I believe my relationship with God uh really started was there because I I could feel I could feel a presence of something good and uh and something benevolent that I could feel some sort of value that and and love towards myself from somewhere else that had nothing to do with how much money I had, um you know, what I had, what I had to give, anything I had done, it was it was just towards me from and I believed it was you know, I believe it was it was God. Um and so about seven months later, um I've got a job at this try to make it quick, but this is a this is a kind of no, you don't need to make it quick. Well part of the story, all right. So I got this job after 90 days. For 90 days, you're sitting in a room studying for eight hours a day, brainwashing, brainwashing, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

I did team challenge, man, so I get it.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

You know, it's so you so it was similar to that, and um, and I mean it, you know, you're up at six o'clock in the morning, worship, praise of worship, raising your hands, and and so I get this job at the Harvest, which is the big food bank over in Sanford. Now, Sanford is my old stomp and grabs because I know Sanford like the back of my hand. Um, and we used to say you can't swing a cat around without hitting a crack dealer in Sanford. Yeah, but um, so I'm working at the food bank and I'm you know, I'm like humming these songs all day long, full of joy, full of the spirit of God, and I'm just like, man, this is great. And uh they never gave me my check up until this point, but a couple days before I got my ID, and the house manager who worked with me at the same job usually got my check. He didn't come that day, so they come and they give my check to me on a Friday, and all of a sudden, something switches. And so I take my check, my ID, and I'm out the door. I leave my job in the middle of the day, and I'm walking through Stanford. Um, I'm cutting down these neighborhoods, and I think they're gonna start looking for me or something weird, and I end up in this uh at this little gas station, uh corner store, we would like to call it. And I walk in this corner store, and this old lady, she's looking at me, she says, Hey, um, there's a bicycle outside, you're gonna need it. And I said, Okay, uh, what? And I go outside, there's a bicycle there. So I grab the bicycle. A couple weeks before, they were talking about this is gonna I know this is gonna sound crazy. They're talking about how the devil likes to bless you too. So I walk into this guy, this corner store, and the lady's like, there's a bicycle outside, you're gonna need it. So I jump on this bicycle, I'm riding, I know where I'm going. I gotta go to Amscott, cash this check, and then I'm going to my guy's house. As I'm riding on the bicycle, uh, these two guys, uh, they look like you know, something out of San Quentin prison documentary or something, pull up in a truck and they're like, they got you know face tattoos everywhere. And they're like, hey, uh, we're from Daytona. You know where we can get some dope around here? And I was like, yeah. So I jump in with these guys and uh we go, Ansgott, I go to the guy's house, I go to the guy and he's like, man, I haven't seen you in a while. I'm like, oh yeah, man. I'm like, man, I got a relationship with God now.

SPEAKER_05 30:52

I've been studying, you know, the word and all this stuff. And the guy's like, man, that's that's what my life's all about. He's like, I'm in church every Wednesday and every Sunday.

The Bicycle, the Paycheck, and the First Slip

SPEAKER_00 31:03

I spell crack. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 31:05

And so it's you know, when you haven't seen your dope in a long time, he gives you like three times as much as it usually gives you.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

And so, anyway, I got these guys, uh, these Daytona guys, I gotta lose them now because they're freaking me out. So I'm at the hotel and they're trying to come in the hotel room with me. I lock them out, they're banging on the door. But that night, um, and from that point, I never experienced getting high the same way. Having having a knowledge of God, having a knowledge of a better way of life, and getting high is never been the same ever since that point. Um, you can get your you can get your conscience doled out enough by enough getting high to where it's more flat, but like the enjoyment of it is not for me. This was my experience, is never the same. Because um, I mean, I was always a paranoid, schizophrenic crackhead. Like, I'm seeing the shadows, I'm barricading the door, I'm in the peephole, I'm you know, climbing out the second story window, hiding in the woods. Like, I'm that guy, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

This time I'm actually seeing stuff. I'm seeing, you know, what I think to be demons in my room. And so I end up not getting through the whole batch. I'm flushing down the toilet. Next morning, birds are chirping. I'm reading the Gideon's Bible, doing my morning devotion like I usually do, and I walk out of the uh hotel room to figure out what I'm gonna do. You know, I walk out of the hotel room, I look over, and the uh the cleaning lady is the same lady that gave me the bicycle at the gas station in the hotel on the other side of Sanford.

unknown 33:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

And she says, good morning. And I'm like, what in the actual fuck is going on here? Yeah, and and so I don't know what any of that means, but um, but yeah, and since that day it's it's been um getting high has never been the same. Doesn't mean that it's enough to keep me from doing it because um because I continue to you know to get high with with a knowledge and an understanding of God. And I don't understand you know how that works. Um fast forward, couple more programs, a lot more suffering and you know uh wreckage. Uh 2012. I'm homeless at this point. Uh my dad and brother have left to go to treatment, and I didn't go. We were running together doing tree work, and uh, so I'm outdoors, you know, and I got a little spot in the woods, and I'm going out and I'm doing tree work every day. I wasn't I wasn't a sign guy, I didn't like holding a sign or nothing like that. I I did tree work and I did receipt scams because I made my so I had a bicycle and I'd ride around with my chainsaw on one handlebar, and then I'd have my rope on the other, and I have my gear and like a little backpack, and I you know cut people's trees. Sometimes I would finish the job, sometimes I wouldn't. I end up um, you know, one morning my dad, who's clean now, asked me to help him with a job, and they tricked me that I get to the job, they tricked me

2012: Homeless, Marchman Act, and Chester at the Detox Door

SPEAKER_03 34:49

and they did a march fine axe.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Oof at the job.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Been there.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Uh so I'm up in the tree, and then the cop pulls up, and I'm like, what's going on here, you know? But I was so tired, I didn't want to try to like run away from this diary thing. I'm like, whatever. So I go in the car, and I just feel like this uh feel like a warm, like a warm presence over me, like I hadn't felt in a long time. And I get to this uh detox place, and there's a tall uh first guy I see, tall African American man. Um, he won't mind if I said his name. His name Chester. This guy Chester. He was the lead tech over at um Paramorangore. And uh, you know, he walks in and during the routine strip search, he starts saying all these things to me. He's like, you know, God's got a plan and a purpose for your life. He's like, um, you know, if you'll just follow his lead, if you'll just stay in position, you know, everything more is gonna be revealed. And I'm like, who is this guy? You know, and he's telling me, he's like, one day you're gonna be coming back to this place, bringing a message. And I'm like, dude, can I put my clothes back on? Like, I'm sick. I want to get to the med counter so I can get right and take a nap, you know. And uh, and that that guy's actually been a part of my life ever since. Wow, um, he helped my my whole family get clean. Um,

Spirit of Life Recovery and the Old-Timer Who Did the Steps in One Day

SPEAKER_03 36:15

so anyways, from there I go to Spirit of Life Recovery Center, where my dad and my brother are. And uh first day I walk into the little group meeting, and there's a man there, he's 80, like 85 years old. Man by the name of Jack. Jack, um can I can I mention names that are okay. So Jack was sponsored. He was sponsored by a guy named Clarence. Yeah, okay. Clarence was sponsored by a guy named Bob, who was a doctor.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yeah, yeah. No, you're fine. You're fine.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

So this guy was second generation from Bob. And I'm sitting in front of this guy, and he's like, he's like, let me tell you something. He's like, um, if you do these steps, you do uh one through nine, and then you live 10, 11, 12, he's like, you'll never have to drink or drunk again. It's like you won't need it. And uh and he's like, I guarantee it. I'm like, really? And so he proceeded to take me through the steps in one day. He took me through the steps. Um, I lived that way for almost seven years, about seven years. I stopped doing 10, 11, 12 every day. That's when I started to fall off, and I picked up a drink in nine and a half years.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Wow. So I'm I have I have questions. Uh I'm very curious. So uh so he takes you through the steps, he discharges, you get out, or you're at a you were in a facility, I assume. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Yeah, I was there for about seven months. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Okay. What what did you do when you got out of that facility?

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Went to a sober house.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Okay. So and what what did your 12-step recovery look like?

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Uh going to meetings. Uh we brought meetings into that detox every Wednesday. We brought meetings uh back to the spirit of life, and I would sponsor guys from Spirit of Life. And that was my life. Um lived in a sober house for about uh maybe a year and a half. And the

Building 7 Years: Meetings Every Night, Circuit Speaking, Sponsoring

SPEAKER_03 38:32

next big chapter came along. Me and this is me and my dad and my brother all living in the sober house together. So we're we're like this, you know, right? And uh, and we're like, you know, people are asking us to come speak and tell our stories collectively as the family that recovered together. And and then eventually, like people are flying us out to Utah and freaking uh Colorado, all over the place to like give our story. Um but I you know, and we would go to meetings almost every night, almost every night. We'd work all day, go to meetings, and then grab some people from the meeting, go to steak and shake or somewhere, and we'd be out. You know what I mean? Just like nothing going on, but recovery.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Shit's the best, man. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Yeah, it was such a way to live, and uh, and I got to a point where like after work, I was craving going to a meeting. You know what I mean? And but all through this time, and I didn't really realize it, that I had my obsession was I don't remember ever dealing with my obsession from during that period. Fast forward about two years sober,

Meeting His Wife at a Men's Sober House BBQ

SPEAKER_03 39:41

I'm sitting at uh barbecue at the sober house, it's all men, and all of a sudden this uh this one guy walks in and he's got this like smoking hot redhead chip with him. I'm like, oh man, who's that? Like, you know where you're at? This is Pine Hills, you know. And uh so she walks in and sits down next to me, and I'm like, hey, what's up? You know, and we're talking, and I'm like, hey, you know, I live here at the sober house. But uh, so we start we start talking, and she's got like uh she had like seven years at a time, and she's an NA. Oh, I'm sorry. She's in the different programs. It's fine, it's fine. So so she's um she's a big deal in her program, and I think of a big deal in my program. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we're talking, and and you know, and I'm like, man, something about her. I was mesmerized by this girl, and she she was a vegan when she came to a barbecue. Her friend told her it was uh a pool party, but ended up bringing her to a men's sober house barbecue, and I ended up convincing her to try a pork sandwich. Uh, and she loved it.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

About a uh a year after that, we're getting married.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

We're getting married four months later, we're pregnant with our first son, and then we had four kids like back to back to back.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

And how long were you sober at this point when you when you had your first son?

SPEAKER_03 41:09

When I had my first son, I had been sober for let's see, three years? Three, no, four, three and a half, three and a half years, yeah. Okay, yep, three and a half years. Had our first kid. Um my dad started drinking again after he had yeah, he had about four years. Okay. He started drinking again. And uh we had a business we built together. Um, and I had to make a decision and I confronted my dad. It was really hard, really, really hard. Because me and him were so tight. Um and and you know, he basically I prayed about it and and I said, listen, I gotta go do my own thing. And then very next day started my business um with nothing. Like all I had, I had my pickup truck and I had one chainsaw and my last paycheck. And so left all that that we had built

Starting the Tree Business From Scratch on Pure Faith

SPEAKER_03 42:16

together, started my business the very next day from scratch, with trying not to go back to the old customers that we had, and just and it was scary. Um, my wife was terrified. We had this brand new baby. We're living in this house in Orlando, and uh, you know, and I'm just like completely dependent on God now. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I know, and I'm and I'm for two days straight, I'm knocking on doors from sun up to sundown. I could not sell, I could not sell a floaty to a drowning man. And I'm like, what in the hell? What is going on here? And then all of a sudden I start getting um people that I haven't talked to in years hit me up on Facebook Messenger. Hey, do you still cut trees? Get all these jobs through the backdoor despite all my efforts over here. And it's just it was just such evidence of like God providing that it it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it because um everything we needed, it didn't make any sense how it was working. I mean, people didn't reach out to me uh from middle school about treats, you know, and so it just it all came together and uh and our business became very successful very quickly. Um we had our second, third, fourth, um, you know, and uh yeah, it was it was it's been a beautiful ride going through all that and and getting to meet my kids and see them kind of grow up and become their own individual person, and and I was so grateful at the time that they could grow up with a sober dad, you know. Um but I believe that something in me needed to be broken and rebuilt. Something in me needed to be dealt with. And uh, you know, my dad I think I had about seven seven years, and uh me and my dad weren't really talking. He he he took it pretty rough that I left the company. Um we weren't talking too much. And uh the last conversation we had wasn't great, but we're having a company Christmas party, and I get a call from his uh new he had married a lady from Korea, really nice lady, and she calls me and she says, Shelby, your dad, he fell down. I don't know what's wrong. And so they rushed him to the hospital. Um,

Dad's Stroke, Dad's Death, and the Anger at God

SPEAKER_03 44:55

he had a stroke, but it was a bad it was a bad stroke. Like he was he was like veget vegetable state. And uh we're all there, the family's there, and I I open up my uh I used to carry my Bible around, putting it all over the place. I open it up, and it's the part where there's the thief next to uh Jesus. And he says, Today you'll be with me in paradise. And I threw my Bible across the room. I said, I don't want to see that. And and so we prayed for I was angry. I was very angry. We we prayed. I stayed there every night. I would come and sit with them, pray with him, and try to talk to him. Like he'd squeeze my hands sometimes, you know. The doctors would have to run me off because I wouldn't stop praying for him, and I was hoping that he was gonna make a comeback. And then about two weeks later, he had another stroke on the other side, and they said, Look, there's no, there's nothing. He's just there's no brain activity anymore. And the the aunt and my sister, because I couldn't make the decision, they had decided to pull the plug on him. And uh me and my brother uh force, we took a break in the middle of our tree job to come over there, and we held his hand when they pulled the plug, and then we never talked about it since. We went back to work. We went and finished the job right after that. And wow you

The Dark Season: Nirvana, Shutting Down, Becoming Roommates With His Wife

SPEAKER_03 46:18

know, I I went into a really dark phase when I was listening to like the freaking Nirvana and Mud Vein and all that shit again, and just like going dark, you know. Just going dark, not talking to anybody, not praying as much. I'm angry at God, but I won't admit it, I won't say it out loud. My wife's like, what where's my husband? You know, and I blamed her because I wanted her to act a certain way while my dad was dying and show up for me, but I wasn't giving her anything to work with. I was just completely shut down and uh buried myself in work. And I think that's really when, you know, if if I would have if I would have been honest about what I was going through with somebody in recovery and made myself and opened myself up to that, I think that's where it really started. Was you know, it talks about enlarging our spiritual life. If we fail to enlarge our spiritual life, we won't be able to deal with the certain low spots. Right now, so that was a low spot that I I didn't deal with the right way. And so that turned into a lot of friction in my marriage to the point where we're roommates, we're we're like we're brothers, you know. Yeah, we don't we don't connect, we don't really care to spend time together. We're just going through the motions we have to kids together. And uh you know, it was really I I did a lot of damage to our relationship. Uh we almost got a divorce a couple times. There was there was some really rough years there leading up to uh that first drink of freedom.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

What was it? So it was at about nine years, you were about two and some change detached from from the program. Do you remember leading up to and obviously, you know, it's never the catalyst to a relapse is never like what happens, you know, 10 minutes before the relapse, right? It's always months prior, or at least that's been my experience. But but what do you recall from from leading right up to it?

SPEAKER_03 48:36

Anger. I was just angry all the time. I was just angry all the time. I felt all alone. Um, I felt like I had to do everything myself and nobody was coming to save me. And I would pray still, like I said, I never stopped praying, never stopped, you know, doing my morning routine, but it felt robotic. It felt, you know, like I just do this because it's the right thing to do. Um and there was just always problems, everything was a problem piling and piling and piling and piling. Everybody else is an idiot, and they just cause problems for me, you know, and I'm the guy that has to come and fix it all, you know, right. And I had set my life up in such a way to where nobody could call me on that, you know, because I wasn't talking to my buddies in recovery, I wasn't talking to my buddies in church or the pastor or the the people that would say, hey, do you realize how insane that sounds? You know, and uh and and life to me at that point was just was just drudging. I'm just drudging through life, you know. I'm it's not about me, it's about I'm basically a human sacrifice so my wife and kids can buy whatever the hell I want.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

And a punching bag.

The Setup: Wife's Health, Isolation, and Being Done Alone

SPEAKER_03 50:02

And but there was, you know, it's that victim victim mentality uh was pretty heavy in me. I was angry at God, and uh my my wife had a lot of, you know, this is a big part of it. She had a lot of health stuff going on. You know, having four kids back to back was really rough on her body, on her emotionally. Um, and and she ended up the last pregnant or the third pregnancy, she almost died in labor.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Um, and we almost lost our daughter, Abigail. My my third Abigail, I named her after Abigail in the Bible, which means my father's joy. And she is. Um but um so she she developed like some autoimmune stuff that really restricted her from being able to like get up in the boring and show up for the kids the way she wanted to, and

Kratom Opens the Door

SPEAKER_03 51:02

uh show up for me in ways that she wanted to, and be able to do anything relating to a normal life. And I that also was a big part of because I was such a you know, get the ball, pull up your bootstraps, and you know, tough your nuts up and be a man. Like right, that was my whole, I was like freaking just you know crash into it, and and that's how I always did things, and so I couldn't understand or hold space for her, and I think that was really hurtful and isolating for my wife during that time. But you know, we did the whole doctors, eastern doctors, all these different doctors trying to figure out what to do. And eventually we landed on, you know, she went to these uh cobamar and tried drinking Kratom and it gave her some relief. And so Kratom is now um, you know, in and around the house, and and you know, it's not her fault because one day, you know, I'm I'm sitting there, I'm stressed, I'm always stressed out, you know. At this point, I'm like if if heart attack is a 10, I'm at like an eight and a half, you know, all this sober, completely sober. I'm just like wound up, and uh so I I say, you know what, fuck it. And I drink a crane. And that night I slept like a baby. I felt so good, and it made me feel like as soon as I I started feeling it kick in, I was like, oh man, this is a bad idea.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

This is a bad idea, and then it's like, well, I'm just gonna do it every other day, yeah. Uh so I don't get hooked, and then you know, next thing you know, uh first thing in the morning, I'm chugging the stuff and trying to get and I'm high knit, you know, and my little cut thing and trying to keep people from finding out. And I got away with that for about a year, um until you know, we were in a pretty bad spot where she was done. She wanted a divorce. She, you know, she didn't want nothing to do with what we had going on anymore. And and uh one night I you know by this point I I I'm on the testosterone because I'm you know I'm trying to like trying to level up, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm on a testosterone to give me the the needles, and then and then I've seen a psychiatrist and they give me the Adderall. They're like, oh, you definitely got ADHD, and I'm justifying every step of the way I'm justifying.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

And then it's like, oh, Adderall, needles, hey, you know, so I'm shooting Adderall, and then I'm like, you know what's better than Adderall is cocaine. And so next thing you know, I'm I'm looking for cocaine,

Cocaine, Fentanyl, Meth — Covering Track Marks With Women's Makeup

SPEAKER_03 53:47

I'm finding it, and I'm shooting cocaine, fentanyl, and then eventually eventually cocaine, fentanyl, meth, uh, you know, spamac, whatever I can get, I'm doing it all the time. Um, you know, up for three or four days at a time, and nobody knows. I'm still doing my estimates, I'm still doing you know, my things and and showing up at home, but I'm like gray.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

When you say nobody knows, do you mean nobody you were doing estimates for knows or your family?

SPEAKER_03 54:19

They probably they probably knew something was going on because I look like death. You know, this went off for about two months straight. And and now at this time, I'm at the financial pinnacle of my life. Financially, everything looks great. You know, I've got the IRA, I've got all these savings accounts over here. I've got four real estate investment properties, I've got the three tree crews working every day, making me money, and AMX, I got the platinum, you know, with the big thick one that looks like uh yeah, and uh, and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm doing great, you know. It's a big I I have not done drugs since I was the guy making $120 a day. Now I've got all these resources, I've got all this money, and so it's a totally different thing than what I'm used to. And so one day I'm walking around trying to put this bed together. My wife and I are technically separated but living in the same house, and I've got my sunglasses on because I'm just sweating obviously, and I've got long sleeves to cover up my track marks. I carry women's makeup around to paint my track marks with so no one will see them. Um, and my wife's like, What the fuck is wrong with you? She walks up and she's like, Take your glasses off, and I look what you know, and I can't figure out I'm so whacked out I can't figure out how to put this freaking thing together for this bed because I'm

Getting Caught, Walking Into a Meeting for the First Time Back

SPEAKER_03 55:51

just like, you know, and uh torture yeah, so so I ended up that was my first time going in, and it I mean it was it was it was uh it was horrible. That was before I walked into a meeting.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

When was this? What year?

SPEAKER_03 56:12

This was 23. No, 2024.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

Okay, I remember I remember meeting you, I think it was probably in 24. Yeah, probably I remember you you said, Oh, I got four kids. I'm like, hey, you know, yeah, we're kindred, bro. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

Yeah, so so uh 24, and then I had two sober houses I was operating, and and so I'm operating sober houses. I'm I'm going to and the house manager, it's like noticing that I'm I'm being weird, you know. I'm going and collecting all this money, and you know, and uh and so there was a guy that was in my sober house a couple years before that I used to sit and talk to all the time. Me and him were like best butts, and he found out that I was fucked off, and so he basically came after me. This guy came after me, and you know who he is. And uh, and man, he didn't give up on me. He would pick me up every night because he had been doing good. The last time I'd seen him, last time I had talked to this guy was on the back porch, and I was like, I would talk to this guy for 10 minutes, and I'd be like, Man, I want to blow my brains out after talking, you know, be like, this guy, this guy's depressed. I thought I knew what depress was, this guy's depressed, and I'm trying to cheer him up, but this time he's coming after me, and he's like, Hey, we're going to a meeting. And I'm like, I'm high right now. He's like, I don't care, I'm going to a meeting, you know, and he would take me to a meeting every night. And uh, and that guy, you know, if it wasn't for that guy, I don't think I would have ever even cracked the seal enough to even hear what recovery had to offer somebody like me because I this whole time I'm I am terrified of walking back into a

The Friend Who Wouldn't Stop Showing Up

SPEAKER_03 58:01

meeting. Do you guys know who I am? I'm a guy, I'm a guy that I was a circuit speaker, you know. I'm a guy that took people through the step. I basically wrote this book, you know, or whatever crazy shit I have in my head. Like, yeah, yeah. I'm a big deal, you know, and now I gotta come back here with my tail between my legs and have everybody say, look, see? And and that's not at all what happens. Like I was thinking I was gonna get ridicule, dressed down, you know, like, all right, you're taking these badges and we're giving you a wooden pistol from now on. You know what I mean? And uh, and so I walk in there and all I got, man, was love and compassion and grace, and people just checking on me, you know. You get the occasional smart ass combat for people, but you gotta take that for what it is. And and uh there's I just received so much love from men in recovery that um it makes me, you know, and you've seen me come in, you've seen how many white chips I've had to pick up, you know. When when I fall down, I know exactly where to go back to. And what that means, I don't know if I'm here as an example to the guys that like, hey, this is what can happen, you know, but I don't want that to be the truth. Like, I want to be able to get I've got 15 days right now, you know, and uh just the amount of love and the amount of connection that I've found in recovery, the friendships, it's like nothing that I've ever had before. I had my septic tank backed up in the

Sponsor Vacuums Sewage for Three Hours — and Won't Take a Dime

SPEAKER_03 59:37

house, and there's shit water all over this office right here. That's the worst was flooded with shit water uh three months ago. I called my called my sponsor, and uh he's like, Yeah, I'll be there in 15 minutes. My sponsor came over and helped me vacuum up shit water for three hours, and I was like, Man, can I please give you pay you or buy buy you lunch or something? He said, Absolutely not, and I just couldn't get over that kind of thing, man. Uh even the guy that was taking me to meetings, I was like, dude, can I buy you some gas? And I I was like, Why are you doing this for me, you know? And he's like, somebody did it for me, you know, and uh Yeah, you know, to be able to live like that and not want anything from re in return, and to be able to rely and know that God's gonna take care of me as long as I uh you know, what does it say? Performance work well, right? Like show up for the next guy, help his kids, you know, the ones that nobody else wants to help. A lot of people told me, you know, they're like, oh, I had to lose everything to to get this. I had to, you know, and I don't think I don't I haven't lost everything, but the everything that I was afraid of losing, I'm not

15 Days Sober: What Recovery Actually Feels Like This Time

SPEAKER_03 1:01:01

afraid of of losing anymore. Like it's not everything to me, you know. Um if if you know if I'm gonna get sober, if I'm gonna get sober and stay sober, it's not gonna be because of fear of losing anything. It's not gonna be because of fear of losing a marriage or or fear of being a dead beat guy. It's gonna be because I found the power. The power is it's now working in. And because of being honest, you know, and that's that's been a big struggle for me because I have a lot of shame um coming back into this program. And I and I worry that, like, you know, I'm putting a bad, you know, I worry that I know it's not the truth, but the lie is that oh God needs me to act right in order for him to be God, and that's not like God doesn't need me to stay sober and do a good job and make a good example for him to be who he is, he's gonna be who he is with it regardless. Like, if I want God to operate through my life and be uh effective in my life and live a life beyond my wildest dreams, then yeah, I want God to use me. Um, but the way I live or fall or get back up or fall down and get back up is has nothing to do with the display of who God is. Like he is who he is, regardless. And that's something that you know I I know, and so it's it's painful to to keep falling down and getting back up and falling down. And I just feel like uh like a like a spectacle, you know, like uh like a clown, like the guy in the dunking booth, you know. But I'm the one throwing the ball.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

And uh yeah, man, your your story, there was probably a half dozen times in your story that I was like, that is you just told my story, you know, it was it was identical. And and I remember, you know, being in treatment, oh god, I guess it was two and a half years ago or so. And it was the first time I had gone to treatment and I hadn't lost everything, you know. And I know you've had that experience recently, and it was it was the first time I had gone into treatment and realized that the thing that scared me the most, or the thing that I didn't realize is I already had everything I actually wanted in life. It was already available to me. All I had to do was just show up for it, you know? Um, and that's that's the feeling I get from you as well, man. And I and I have a question, and I don't I don't know if this question is gonna work or if it's gonna land or or are or how it's gonna go. But um if if you weren't you, if you were, I don't know, somebody else talking to you, right? What would you say to Shelby?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:05

I would um if I was me talking, talking to me as somebody else, uh, I would say, you know, I would say, hey, I love you, man. I'm proud of you. Um, I would point out all the times that I have gotten back up, and I would say that that is proof that you're not too far gone right there, and not to give up on yourself. And I would say I love you, and I would say that um, you know, uh I would treat myself like somebody that I love and cared about, and and I wouldn't give up on. Yeah, and that's that's been the real struggle for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

I'll tell you one one thing that I latched on to from your story, and of course it was something I had to kind of infer from it, but but I'll tell you how it showed up in my life, and maybe you can tell me if if this was similar for you, is I I operated with most of my life with this big I'm

Austin and Shelby: The "Not Good Enough" Wound We Both Carry

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

not good enough wound, like in the bottom of my gut. And where where that came from, it was never said to me, but but I was really good at baseball as a kid, and I you know, when I would hit home runs, I would notice that I would get that that love and affection from my dad that I couldn't really seem to get otherwise. And so I the conclusion that I came to was if I achieve, then I'm worthy of these things. But if I don't, I'm not. And and that stayed with me for a long, long time. And even through my long period of sobriety, I achieved a lot. I'm very successful company, all sorts of different things, but that wound was still there. And I noticed that that when it didn't heal that thing that I thought it was gonna heal, I blew it up. And I would consistently just blow it up every time. Um, you know, and and if I could say anything to you, Shelby, it would be that you are completely worth it. And uh and you're definitely good enough, man. And and we love you so much, buddy.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

I love you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

I'm really, really grateful that you came on and chatted

Outro

SPEAKER_00 1:06:11

with us today, pal. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:14

Yeah, I'm glad we could do it, and I'm glad I could be a part of it. And you know, anything I can do, I'll be thank you, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Stick around after after we finish up. For anyone listening, thanks for thanks for tuning in. My name's Austin. I've been on with uh Shelby and that you on the next episode.