Dr. Ardeshir Mehran's Podcast
Not Depressed. Just UnFinished. Hosted by Dr. Ardeshir Mehran, Ph.D.
What if your depression isn't a diagnosis; it's a dare, it's a signal?
Not Depressed. Just UnFinished. is the podcast for leaders, high achievers, and entrepreneurs who have built impressive lives on the outside and sense something is dying on the inside. If you've ever stared at everything you've accomplished and felt strangely empty, this is the show you didn't know you needed.
Dr. Ardeshir Mehran is a Columbia University-trained psychologist, depression and anxiety expert, and bestselling author of You Are Not Depressed. You Are Un-Finished.
This work is personal. Over 30 years of research and clinical work, and his own personal battle with depression at the peak of his leadership career, Dr. Mehran arrived at a truth that upends everything you've been told: depression and anxiety are not broken-brain problems. They are your body's loudest, most insistent signal that you are living an unfulfilling life.
The science is clear: executives and high achievers experience depression, anxiety, and addiction at two to three times the rate of the general population. Status, wealth, and relentless productivity mask the fight, but they don't end it.
Dr. Mehran's pioneering framework, the Bill of Emotional Rights, identifies the seven universal human rights that we are wired to fulfill from birth. When these rights go unmet, we don't fall apart quietly. We achieve loudly, and ache privately.
Each episode brings Dr. Mehran's signature warmth, clinical depth, and zero-nonsense directness to the questions that actually matter: Why do high achievers suffer in silence? What does your anxiety know that you don't? How do you go from managing symptoms to building a life that makes you feel fully alive?
This is not a podcast about coping or reducing symptoms.
It's a podcast about naming and claiming what was always yours.
Website: https://ardeshirmehran.com/
The Bill of Emotional Rights: https://ardeshirmehran.com/copy-of-bio/
See Amazon for Bestselling Book: You Are Not Depressed. You Are Un-Finished. https://ardeshirmehran.com/general-clean/
Dr. Ardeshir Mehran's Podcast
Holding it Together: A Psychiatrist on Why You Could Always Be Composed and Quietly Breaking.
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What if being normal is a myth?
What if there is a quiet cost of always being normal?
Let’s look behind the composure.
We hear from the psychiatrist who studies why the strong ones often struggle quietly.
For nearly 30 years, Dr. Peter Zafirides, MD has sat across from people who seem to have it all together, hearing the things they never say out loud.
Dr. Zafirides is a Clinical Assistant Professor at Ohio State's College of Medicine and co-founder of Central Ohio Behavioral Medicine in Columbus, Ohio, where he has spent nearly three decades treating depression, anxiety, and trauma.
A seven-time Best Doctors in America honoree and recipient of the Compassionate Doctor Award, he built his career around one uncomfortable question: what if being normal is a myth, and there's a quiet cost to always holding it together?
In this conversation, we talk about why the people everyone else depends on are often the least likely to admit they're struggling.
Someone can be lonely while surrounded by others every day, and why closure is something we create rather than something we receive.
Dr. Zafirides breaks down the two layers of suffering, the loss itself and the fight against it, and explains how anxiety and depression can quietly become someone's lifestyle without them ever noticing.
We also get into what the body knows before the mind admits it, and what nearly 1,000 lectures and thousands of patient hours have taught him about when people finally reach out for help.
What we learned is that strength was never about carrying it alone.
It's about knowing when to put it down.
If you're the one everyone else leans on, consider this your sign to lean on someone too.
TIMELINE:
3:54 — Living "normal" while secretly battling anxiety and depression
6:03 — The tipping point: when suppressed struggles start to "break down" relationships, work, or health
7:58 — "Death by resiliency," the cost of always pushing through
8:14 — When it's time to see a clinician
9:42 — How medication helps (and its limits)
11:30 — Healing as a complex interplay of biology, psychology, and human connection
15:59 — The power of simply asking "Are you happy?"
24:59 — Loneliness as an epidemic, even in a room full of people
28:22 — Understanding closure: pain vs. the suffering we add through interpretation
37:06 — The two layers of suffering explained
CONTACT DR. PETER ZAFIRIDES, MD:
CONTACT DR. ARDESHIR MEHRAN:
You're not depressed. Just unfinished. This is the podcast for leaders, high achievers, and entrepreneurs who have built impressive lives on the outside and yet sense something is dying on the inside. If you ever stared at everything you have accomplished and felt strangely empty, this show is for you. What if we take a look at life in a different way? That there are people who bring a lot of composure. They look normal. They have it all together. What if there's a different story to them? What if those individuals actually have burdens, their stories they want to share with somebody? They don't know who to go to, they don't know how to make sense of their struggles, but all they've been told is just plow through. Push on, and you'll be just fine. Are they fine? We will learn that today. My expert today is an individual who for 30 years sat across the table as a clinician from individuals who had everything figured out on the paper. They look normal, they look great, they smell great, but they had the stories to share. And they wanted somebody to hear those stories and help them find a way through. That doctor is Peter Zafradus, and he's a psychiatrist. Today we're gonna turn the table around. That learn from him what has he heard and what insights after 30 years he can bring to us so we can live lighter with more hope and live better. Your clinical assistant professor at Ohio State College of Medicine, co-founder of the Central Ohio Behavioral Medicine at Columbus, for over 30 years, you've been treating depression, anxiety, and trauma. And you've been recognized as the best doctor in America for seven years in a row. And a word that actually is very powerful. I want to learn more about this: a compassionate doctor. So, Peter, welcome. Did I miss anything about your background?
SPEAKER_01No, not at all. That was wonderful. I just that was nice to hear. I appreciate it. Uh, but yes, the only thing I'd add is I'm a father of three children and married for the last 18 years.
SPEAKER_00That's the best accomplishment. I was so excited to speak with Peter, and you would understand very soon why. We started a podcast, and I forgot to hit the record. So we went to the whole podcast, getting to the closing. Oh my goodness. So Peter is gracious enough to give me another hour of his time as his wisdom. So thank you. And a life lesson. Always put the right button before. Oh gosh, that was one of the essential.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00You got it. So let me start. Uh so Peter is very active in social media, especially LinkedIn. He writes a weekly post on LinkedIn and uh about his observations, clinical experiences, and some of the research he's been doing. In a research post, you wrote, many people are so accustomed to living in a way that is seemed as normal, but in fact, they're dealing with anxiety and depression. And when you ask them what is going on, they don't know there's a high cost behind just looking normal. And because they have a race in mind that is continuously comes up at night, inability to relax, and the constant pressure of believing that everything depends on them, they need to go. And if you ask them what's going on, the answer typically is this is who I am. I'm always being like this. Peter, is that true? Are they always like this?
SPEAKER_01That's a complicated question, and I think people's experience may be that they always feel like that, but there's also the other feeling that there's something wrong, right? So I feel like this, but I'm also worried about this not feeling right. I'm anxious, I'm nervous, I feel hopeless, it feels mundane, things are going every day the same, and I don't know how happy I really am. And we all figure out ways to deal or rationalize with that. But it is kind of that dissonance, if you will, that disconnect between what I am doing, but yet in my mind, I recognize that this is pain, this is suffering as well. So, how do I come to terms with this?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So those individuals that they push through, they say I'm normal, I'm just a regular guy, a regular lady, but they feel anxious, they feel a disconnect. There's an element of suffering, low-level suffering continues. At what point that becomes a risk factor that those individuals could benefit from help from professionals like you.
SPEAKER_01But the initial part of that may not have been so much of a problem. And I think that this is how we see the way that we all of us, this is not uh exclusive of psychiatrists suffer from this too, and I do and have. So it's part of this feeling that okay, I can handle this. This isn't much. This is how I'm supposed to do it. But things begin to break down, and I think that's the tipping point. And breaking down can be various things. It can be breaking down in terms of relationships, where suddenly there is conflict or there is difficulty within relationships. It could certainly be in the workplace, which I'm sure you with your years of experience can relate to in terms of how this can break down and affect the workplace, or it is a breakdown of health, whether it is hypertension or cardiovascular disease or any kind of problem that takes the stress from something that was tolerable to this point where I have to now let it go, because if I don't, I'm going to lose a relationship, my health or my life's good.
SPEAKER_00That's right. So you're talking about that you can continue being normal. In fact, there's a term I use that death by resiliency. In our society, we've been told and rewarded, push through the don't give up, don't quit, don't like it, go, go, go. But what you're saying that pay attention to quality of your health, pay attention of your quality of your relationships, about how much you're handling and the are there costs to looking normal and go and plowing through. And then so when people come to you, why do they come to you? At what point when is it that people say, I need to see a clinician?
SPEAKER_01Yes. I think it's varied in terms of, and I'll speak to my experience as a psychiatrist, when people will come to me, but obviously when people are suffering. But I think the two main ways would be either at the suggestion or request of a trusted family doctor or primary care physician who has said, Look, I'm really worried about how you're feeling. They may or may not have treated them, perhaps with various treatments, maybe a trial of a medication or two, and then they say, I think you might need to see someone like Peter to understand this more fully. Or another way is that individuals may enter into therapy, and within the course of the therapy, it's determined that an additional benefit could be made by seeing a psychiatrist. Perhaps we look at a medical or pharmacological intervention to help ease the suffering.
SPEAKER_00Got it. So part of that that you mentioned therapy and medication as a complement to the therapy outcome. How is medication helpful? What does medication bring to healing? Yes.
SPEAKER_01Succinctly, I don't know. So thank you for your honor. What do I mean by that? We know that these medications affect the, I can be really technical and just say what these medications do is they affect the mood neurochemicals in our brain. Or perhaps throughout our body, maybe not necessarily just the brain. And the thinking there is with emotional issues, what we see is a change in the neurochemistry of the brain that predisposes you a bit more to depression or to anxiety. So as we replenish these chemicals, we feel better. Now, the question is, and you have seen it as well, why do some people respond very well with maybe minimal amounts of medication while others can go through trial after trial and they're not getting better. So we know that it's not uniform just yet, and we have these avenues. And I'm not trying to just minimize them or say that they're not effective, not at all. We have data that proves that it isn't effective. But healing is different than just response. And that is where I think is the important part that we can prescribe medication, but if it is not in a supportive, in a healing environment where a person is truly heard, that they really feel that they are being seen as a human being. I don't know that the medications, in and of themselves, are enough to overcome the suffering and the loneliness that a person feels that may predispose them to that depression. So I really do think that it is a complex interplay of biology, of psychology, and also of connection. Connection.
SPEAKER_00This is very key. The in my word that people who come to me, so I'm not a medical doctor, I'm a psychologist. So people who come to me, the quality that I see in the majority of them is the inability to feel. It's a very subtle difference. People, these are professionals, they can very elegantly describe their thoughts, their emotions. I'm angry, I'm happy, I'm heartbroken. But when you look at their affix, they are talking about feeling versus feeling the feeling. There are no tears, and it's very flat, monotone way they talk about feeling. So that teaches me that in terms of left and right brain hemisphere, because part of the depression early on, we try to numb feeling as a way to survive. We think about things, we analyze, organize. And my understanding is that medication helps to connect left and right brain hemisphere to bring allow for more fuller experiences. And to your point, still science is being developed, and medication works with some people, it doesn't work with other ones. Something you mentioned in one of your writings that people come to therapy. Sometimes it's not about something is wrong with me, it's about they're just exhausted of living the way they are, they just want hope, they want a way out, the way through. Share about that what's going on when you see people coming like that. Sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean you see individuals, and what is the issue? And on a surface level, there is depression and anxiety. But I think that's you bring up a really good point of a person really being detached even from themselves. And we can understand it if we look at just an adaptive mechanism, right? If you've got too much noise coming at you, one of the responses there is to numb that noise so that it doesn't keep affecting you. And I would argue that the individual decides on a conscious level and an unconscious level, it is safer to feel numb than it is to feel pain. Or oftentimes, it is the fear of what would happen if here they are allowed to feel, right? Because a lot of times what we will see is when we are able, and this is my responsibility to provide that safe environment to make sure that the individual knows that they are being heard, they're not being judged, but it is okay to talk. When they are able to be vulnerable and find out that they don't just vaporize into nothingness, that there is actually something healing that can come by letting their guard down, that numbness has started to be replaced by hope. And that hope can be very powerful. So, of course, we will marry that with medication treatment when it is appropriate. But I think that a lot of times it is not just the numbness, but it is the fear of what may happen if someone releases some of that emotion. That's right. That's right. That's again, society has taught us you're just going to be an individual and go at it. They've also, it's only recently that the emotions and psychiatry and psychology have been more in the mainstream media that it's been okay to talk. Oftentimes it had been veiled in silence or worry about being judged. We've gone a long time in society where we've not allowed individuals to release those emotions or to know that it is okay, that it is acceptable.
SPEAKER_00That's right, that's right. For listeners who are hearing this conversation, Peter, what are one, two, or three things you want them to think about to know how are they doing? Am I uh being normal but not feeling normal? Or would I benefit from going seeing a clinician like you? What would you tell them?
SPEAKER_01I think one of the most powerful questions you can ask is a very simple one. Are you happy?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Are you happy? And just allow the individual to sit is amazing, oftentimes, how you will see an individual be stopped cold, not know how to respond, or become emotional right at that moment. So I think checking in, yes, we can handle a lot of things, and that represents our strength, and that represents incredible strengths from those that might have gone through traumatic childhoods or trauma that we can't even imagine, and the strength to be able to hold on to that and the power of maybe numbing everything as a protective mechanism, but to be able to sit and just say, Are you happy? The other part is how are things in your life? Are relationships okay? Is work okay? Is your health okay? And if the answer to that continues to be no or yeah, but then maybe it's time to think about the impact of those emotions and psychology in your quality of life.
SPEAKER_00Peter, this is so important. I wanted this stop and reiterate that. Two questions. Are you happy? How are things in your life right now? Marriage, family, finances, job, and so on. About 15 years or so ago, so I struggled with depression, my whole family, mom and dad, for years. And I first of all, for a long time I didn't know I was depressed. Then when I learned about it, I couldn't find a way through that. So I went to seven psychologists over the years, and then the last resort went to a psychiatrist, very credentialed, wonderful individual. And I said, I'm willing to try any medication. Halfway through the session of 15-minute session, he scribbled something, piece of paper, gave it to me, says, Mr. Meron, you're severely depressed. Go take this medication. I looked at it, it was for Prozac. Come back in three weeks, we will continue our therapy. I felt so isolated and heard that don't you want to know who I am? That Patty asked me, Are you happy? I would have just felt that somebody actually interested in me, and it would have been opening my heart, my soul, that somebody I can talk to because I was desperate to talk to somebody. So the power of those basic human questions, these are not clinical questions, these are almost like a spiritual question that how are things for you in life? Those are those they change somebody's lives, those questions.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, it's very powerful, and I think it's really important. You and I have been doing this for a long period of time, right? So we feel very comfortable with it. But I try not to take for granted what it takes for an individual to come and sit here in this room, this couch or this chair, and talk to me. Never take for granted what they're thinking. What does this mean if I'm seeing a psychiatrist? Am I crazy? Then have I let my family down? Have I let myself down because they've come to see Peter? That's who I am.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And yes, it's Dr. Zapharitis, but it's Peter. And I think keeping that in mind at the beginning, particularly that initial session, is doing everything that we can to humanize that moment because we don't have any idea. We feel totally comfortable because we love what we do and we've done this. And to us, it feels like every day. And maybe it's easy for us to come up with a treatment plan, but I just trying not to take for granted what it took an individual to come in and see. And I think in that, it's really important to be as human as possible in that session and in those questions that you ask. You can get diagnostic information pretty quickly. AI can do that pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_01We know symptoms, that's fine. But we don't know the human being and everything that it took for them to get to this point. And that's where I think it takes that time, and it can only happen with the proper human connection. Otherwise, all the medication in the world is not going to work, and you're not going to see that individual come back, or they're not going to take the medication. So I think the body is really, really important.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Peter, what you mentioned is that what I've noticed that people who come to see me, the way you describe your clients, they come in and they share in the first session a lot of heavy private emotions that they haven't talked to anybody about. They didn't even journal about. And they are they just want somebody, they want to share. And they want somebody to hear those they're sharing without diagnosing, without clinicalizing it. And that person also not falling apart the judgments, oh, really? Just honoring them that their stories and convey through their demeanor you can work through this. There's a way through that. Bring in some hope, some logic, some possibility. You've been through a lot, and there's a way to come through that. Yes. Which brings me your compassionate doctor award. That is this is the first time I've seen that award. So first I congratulation to you, sir. Thank you. Because we know from the Is about the drivers of successful therapy for clinicians. Quality of human connection with your clinician is one of the strongest predictors for success and effectiveness of therapeutic partnership. Speak to that. What does it mean to be a good doctor like you, compassionate doctor?
SPEAKER_01Again, I appreciate that word. I have not sure how I got it, but it's lovely wonderful that I did. But I think it just brings up the point that, you know, for me, one of the biggest things to learn in psychiatry after my residency, because with residency, unfortunately, when I went through residency, we still learned quite a bit of therapy here at Ohio State University. So we were blessed to have that. But it was highly focused towards medication, and understandably so, you're learning all of this. This is part of your training, you know. But the biggest thing for me over the years with regards to healing has just been the realization of how much I have to focus on the connection, how important that is first and foremost, or else all is lost. So for me, it's been a over the span of my career, and I don't know that I've perfected it to this point, but by any means, but I think that's probably been the thing that I've had to learn the most on my own is the power of that connection and how much that will dictate healing in the long run and how much that matters. And fortunately, I'm sure that's happened with you, and certainly in my sessions, where people will say something that I might have mentioned to them about their strength or their ability, and they remember that and will come back months or years or even decades later and say that it really mattered to me that you said that. And it's not that I'm anyone special, but it just showed the power of being able to connect, yeah, and the difference that that can make in another human being's life. I don't have magic powers. It's just the fact that I connected with you, it mattered, and you changed. And that is what we tried to get to because I think that's underemphasized today in all of medicine. And we are go, go, go, let's get our productivity, let's get the person in and out, let's treat them with the medication. And I think we've lost some of that art of healing, of the healing connection.
SPEAKER_00And in your research, you talk about three topics loneliness as an epidemic all around us. You talk about closure and you talk about suffering. Let's take each one of them and do a double-click. Why is loneliness about and why there's such a sense of there's so much literature, writings about loneliness? What's going on? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I know we we have an epidemic of loneliness and data that has shown that just the idea of loneliness that we carry will take years and decades off our lives. What are we talking about there? We can be in a room of people, of family members, of loved ones, and feel even worse that we are alone. And I think that the loneliness really comes in the loneliness of our struggle and the loneliness of suffering. And the fact that maybe we feel like we can't talk to anyone about it, or that we feel that there is no hope. We cannot get better. So everyone we see around us is doing so much better than I am. Everyone is dealing with it, yet I am just sitting here and I'm putting on a face, and it isolates you. You feel like you're alone. Where if we realized it, so many of us go through this, and it's part of the human experience. And part of it is just figuring out where do I get the help that I need.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. This having come from a corporate environment, I was doing the coaching and therapy within the corporate setting. What I saw very often, if not all the time, there's a meeting, conference room. People enter the room, you turn around and you call the people's name typically by the status. The head of the program, the executive. Hey, good to see you. You have eye contact with them. Then there are other people walking the room, they're almost invisible. Nobody sees them, nobody turns, look at them, hardly anybody asks their opinion. For a while, that was me. That registers that I'm invisible in a room among the colleagues. Part of the loneliness is about what you mentioned, being seen, being acknowledged, being invited. We don't do that, but it's just like in a part day, I need to do something to come out of isolation, loneliness. Then loneliness is really the context sport. We need to help each other to bring that to change that equation.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we really do. And we also need someone to guide us, right? Because, like I said, some of that loneliness can be coming from suffering, and that suffering can be coming from feelings that we think are fixed forever, and that we are all alone, and sometimes just being able to relate is enough to free a person and make them feel just the power that they have, not that I have, that they have to be able to transform and change.
SPEAKER_00That's right, that's right. About closure, and you mentioned has the closure has two. I mix it up my question. Share about closure, then we go to suffering. What is closure?
SPEAKER_01When we talk about closure, all of us as human beings will try to understand the world around us and how we move through it and deal with everything. We all experience pain, we all experience loss. Some of us have experienced much more trauma than others. But suffering is part of the human experience. There's just no way around it. And I think in terms of that, when we look at suffering, there is the suffering, the actual pain. And I always try and tell people, using my own example, of struggling with not only depression, but physical back pain. And there is that pain and it hurts. And that is uncomfortable. I don't like the way that it feels, it hurts. So that's the pain and the suffering on one level. But the next level of suffering is the interpretation of what that means. So if I have back pain and I feel it's never going away, now I've added another level of suffering. If it is going to impact my life where it's never going to go away, and I won't be able to do the things that I want with my loved ones, with my family, or it will get worse, that I will be bedbound. This is a second level of suffering that I am creating. And it preys on our insecurities and our vulnerabilities and isn't necessarily true, if true at all. So when we come to some sense of closure, it is I can suffer with pain, whether it is physical or emotional, but also I have to come to acceptance that this is there. And what it doesn't mean is some of these thoughts that make it even worse in the suffering. And when I'm talking about closure or acceptance, it is not in terms of giving up, right? Because even though we have pain, whether it's physical or emotional, that can get better too. But in the way that I add to it that I'm causing even more pain for myself, I must realize A, that is happening, to, I must do things to minimize that. And in that way, I gain a sense of acceptance in terms of my overall condition. So this can apply to physical symptoms, this can apply to depression, anxiety, isolation, numbness.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Well, what I really appreciate what you mentioned is that pain and suffering is not a part of us be trying to almost comportmentalize. In fact, personally, the I hate the term when people say such and such person is fighting against cancer. Cancer is part of our body, there's no such thing as fight, is working through that, bringing healing. And there's Buddha who said that pain is inevitable, suffering is discretionary, is to your point. Is how do you think about it? How do you interpret that? How do you work with it? Because life will give us the sucker punch. For all of us, we get it. How do we work with it? It makes all the difference.
SPEAKER_01That's absolutely true.
SPEAKER_00And in fact, that's the part I want to go back to the sense of normal that for individuals who struggle by say this is normal, it seems there's an element they take life's adversities or their own past struggles. That's life. That's how I am. I'm gonna ignore it and plow through then. In your therapy, how do you help individuals to modify that?
SPEAKER_01Yes. First, I think we recognize first and foremost the strength of the individual. Oftentimes, those individuals that I see don't just have depression for the sake of having depression, truly just biological, came out of nowhere. These are amazing individuals who have been through loss, that have been through trauma, that have dealt with an incredible amount of stress, yet perform every day for those that count on them or need them, uh, or for their own well-being. And I think that it's really important to let them know you coming in and struggling to the degree that you have, but you're here, yeah, represents the amount of strength that is truly within you. What we are going to try and investigate is how can we make this better? How do we use that strength? Take a look at why you're suffering in the way that you are. And are there ways that we can redefine this or understand it in a different way, or come at it where you can use those strengths to minimize the amount of suffering? Same strength that brought you here to help you get better. So I think that's first and foremost. And then brings hope. That brings hope that you can do it. You have the strength. That's right. But it's absolutely true. I'm not, there's no patronizing, there's them looking right at the evidence. You have dealt with everything you just told me, and you are still alive and here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Even with how much pain you still have, you're here. Yeah. How do we use that to try and make this better?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's good. Question to you, staying with the individual who may have an element of they are pushing through. Every now and then I am contacted by uh somebody who they call on behalf of their spouse, or their teenager, say that read your book, saw your podcast. My spouse can benefit from talking with you, or I know my spouse or partner is depressed, anxious, is grumpy, or she's grumpy at home, or my the teenager, like a young um man or woman, is already in college and the schools are failing, doesn't want to go to class, they're anxious and depressed, they need help. And uh I talk with them, they said, I don't want to see anybody they don't want to go see a professional. So they asked me, how do I approach that? So let me ask you, how I'm sure you get calls like that. How would you guide those conversations?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think the most important thing is honoring the resistance, honoring what it's taking for the individual to even make that decision, right? Yeah, and I think supportive of that, allowing that to be human. I get it. I know that this is hard for you. I know that it is hard to get informed to go and see Peter or Artisha, but I am really worried for you, and I'm worried for the would you do this? Go one time, right? And I try to tell people, especially if there's resistance when they come in. My name is Peter. I have three children. I've been married, I'm also a psychiatrist. But first and foremost, we need to push away this idea of what it means to come in and see a psychiatrist. We will have a discussion. I will offer what I feel I can do to help you. And the only obligation you have is to this visit right now, and then you can tell me what you want to do after that. Because a lot of times it's this projection, oh, I'm gonna go see a psychiatrist, I'm gonna be on medication forever, it's never gonna go away. I'm a crazy person. Yeah. So really just trying to lower what it means for that moment, but also respecting what it takes. Again, it goes back to that. It says we're used to it, but we and I still to this day will take it for granted what it means for someone to come in and sit across the uh the couch from me and actually feel okay with talking to a psychiatrist.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, exactly. No, this is good. You talked about the suffering having two layers really caught my attention. Could you describe what are the two layers of suffering?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think here being able to use uh maybe a little bit of that uh example of my physical pain or physical pain in general as people come in. And then that hurts, right? Whether it's depression, anxiety, physical pain, that is causing physical pain. But then it is the assessment of the meaning that then causes this next level of suffering, right? Yeah, hurting that this is gonna be forever. I'm hurting, this is never gonna go away no matter what I do. I'm hurting, I'm not gonna be able to play with my kids, I'm not gonna be able to advance in my career, I'm not gonna be able to retire and have a good life because it hurts too much, right? So there's the optional pain, and then there is a great, I would argue, a greater level of pain that comes from the interpretation of what it means. And I see those as two layers of suffering. So here the approach is let's look at how you're interpreting that first, respecting the pain that is there, where it's coming from. Depression, anxiety, or physical pain. But what are we doing? And I say that as someone who struggles with this almost on a daily basis. Yes, what am I doing to make this worse by my interpretation? And I have an obligation to myself to challenge that because it is not serving me, coming to terms with that, an acceptance, if you will, that I may have this struggle, but I also have a responsibility to what I do with this struggle. That's where we can come to things like acceptance and closure.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful, wonderful. So, as we get into the end of our time, Peter, yes, what is one or two thoughts you want to share with our audience in the context of finding hope and then how to go beyond just being normal to actually to live a fuller life? What would you like to offer them?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I want people to realize that there is suffering and it exists everywhere. And if you're holding, you're by no means alone in your struggle. Please realize how many people are struggling, even those around you that you feel are adjusted and doing well. Please don't feel that isolated. But also, help is available, and that is not patronizing, it is true. You can feel better from where you are, and no matter what you've been through, and I know that people have been through much more difficult things than I've ever gone through, traumas of all types is legion, and we have a responsibility as treaters to engage you as a human being and help guide you through that. But you can get better, and you continue to search for those who can help you if you have been to someone and don't feel comfortable with them. It is our responsibility to engage you and make you feel that you can get better, that it is our privilege and our obligation to help you. And if you don't feel that, go to someone who does, but you absolutely can feel better.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful. Thank you. Peter, question to you in terms of your practice, do you see clients also virtually like Zoom or other? Um, or is it all in person?
SPEAKER_01No, we still with COVID, it changed everything, and still to this day, it's still a significant amount of individuals that I will see through uh teletherapy or telepsychiatry. So it probably makes up on any given day, maybe about a third of those that I see. So it's just become it's just become convenient for many people.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Good news for a listener. So as part of our uh the podcast, uh Peter's information, contact information to his clinic, to his uh writings will be available. So Peter is there, a compassionate doctor. On a personal note, I wish 15 years ago when I went to see a psychiatrist, there was somebody like you at that time. My trajectory of health would have been very different. Where knowing you exist, people like you exist, it's just so reassuring for to help people bring them faster and more hopeful in their journey. Peter, thank you. Thank you so much for your time, for your dedication and having a rich conversation. Um, and two are listeners. The topic today is that life pain, the struggles, trauma, depression, these are facts of life. We all experience them at one way or another, whether in the early life, all the way, some of my clients or grandparents in their 80s, we experience them. Two things Peter mentioned: one is that healing is not about being Bravo and I'm gonna crush it myself. Healing is about contact. It takes a village, literally does. We need to create connections, support, whether it's your therapists, loved ones, friends, creating coming from isolation to connection. Number one. Number two, instead of trying to plowing through, finding help to bring some wisdom, some hope, and some tools and skills for you to go to the next level. One thing we know there are problems. In fact, I learned this from my um psychology mentors years ago. It says sometimes sitting on pain, it doesn't get better. You need to find a way to address it, to resolve it. We cannot wish our struggles to go away. We need to do something about it. So if you are struggling, reach out to people in your orbit about finding help to bring you more hope, more joy, and better living. Thank you so much. Person, I'm looking forward to doing another podcast with Peter soon to go to another aspects of health and healing. Thank you. Be well.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Ardashir. It's been a privilege to be part of this, and I would very much look forward to a further conversation. I'll say two things and then I will stop talking. But one to those that are listening, your strength is absolutely legion. And don't let anyone lead you in any other way than that. You are so strong. Never doubt that. And remember that the privilege is always ours in taking care of you, not the other way around. And if you don't feel that from someone that you're being that is treating you, find another person because it is our privilege to treat you. Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Beautiful. Thank you so much. We'll see you again. Thank you. All right.