#16 Georgie Dickins: The Advisors View - Leadership, Patterns and Pivots

In this episode of Stratospheric Leaders, the microphone is handed to Caroline Vasquez, Chief Marketing & Communications Officer at DRW, as she sits down with the show’s usual host, Georgie Dickins, for a deeply personal and expansive conversation.

This episode offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at Georgie’s journey from a 20-year career in global financial institutions, including ICAP, Reuters and JPMorgan Chase, to building a purpose-led advisory career focused on leadership excellence, sustainable performance, and self-trust.

What unfolds is not a linear career story, but an honest exploration of intuition, burnout, identity, and what it truly takes to operate at the top without losing yourself along the way.

Together, Caroline and Georgie unpack the moments that forced reflection, the role of health as both a warning and a catalyst, and why the most powerful leadership shifts often begin with slowing down.This is a conversation about listening to your body, your curiosity, your fear, and your evolving definition of success and about building the internal and external structures that allow leaders to thrive over the long term.

Key Takeaways

• Your intuition is a career compass—if you listen early, it whispers before it screams.
• Burnout is often preceded by subtle signals; ignoring them comes at a cost.
• Career transitions don’t require reckless leaps—calculated exploration creates optionality.
• Journaling works best when it’s unfiltered, imperfect, and judgment-free.
• Passion for the work matters, but execution is what turns vision into reality.
• Exceptional leaders build strong “kitchen cabinets” and internal boards of directors.
• Delegation and trust create capacity; micromanagement drains it.
• Chronic stress is far more dangerous than short, acute periods of intensity.
• Leaders often overestimate their energy reserves—self-management is non-negotiable.
• Plateaus can be chosen or forced; adaptability determines continued growth.
• Communication is never one-and-done—clarity requires repetition.
• Success without self-trust eventually becomes fragile.
• Slowing down strategically is often the fastest way forward.

This episode is a powerful reminder that stratospheric leadership is about self-awareness, alignment, and the courage to evolve when the path no longer fits.

Show Links

Website - https://www.georgiedickins.com

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgiedickins

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@GeorgieDickins-q7x

Transcript

0:00

Hi, I'm Georgie Dickens, the host of Stratospread Leaders. The podcast where I get to have inspired conversations with extraordinary leaders from across capital markets. Join me to get their game training strategies, the personal stories and personal standby behind the Stratospread success. Every episode packed with wisdom, insight, and real-world lessons, the stuff they simply don't teach you in business school. If you want to elevate your game and most importantly, those around you, this podcast is for you. Enjoy. Hello, and welcome to Stratospheric Leaders. Today I'm your host, Caroline Vasquez, Chief Marketing and Communications Officer at DRW. And I have the thrill of being joined by author, executive advisor, and the usual host of this podcast, Georgie Dickens. She's the financial industry's go-to voice for insights and strategies that unlock performance. So, Georgie, welcome to your show. How are you? I'm really good. I am very excited to be on the other side. So thank you, because I already know this is going to be a very engaging and enjoyable conversation. So you said you're you're on the other side today. How does that feel? Do you have more empathy for your guests, Dow, who uh are put in the we'll call it a warm seat, not a hot seat. Yeah, and normally, like I know the questions I'm gonna ask. I have a sense of the direction of the conversation. And today I'm like, it could go many different ways. But you know what? It's good to be in our discomfort zone. So yeah, excited. Good. Well, I'm excited for the conversation. And as we start, I think it'd be fun to go back. A lot of people know you as sort of this executive advisor to, you know, lots of big names in the financial industry. But before you were doing this, um, what what were you doing? And and how did those experiences shape kind of what you're doing now? Yeah, I I had 20 years in financial services, uh ICAT, Reuters, JP Morgan, and I loved being part of that corporate space. It was dynamic, it was innovative, it was fast-paced. Um, and it was genuinely a really enjoyable chapter in my life. Uh, I think what I realized over time is that my motivations, my drivers changed. I think I was always an entrepreneur in residence. I like being my own boss. And I recognize the qualities that I love, which is leadership excellence, high performance, um, being the best of the best. Like, how do you how do you become the best of the best? And I love working with people. Like I really enjoy conversations, people, progression. And really, that for me is where, you know, setting up Kajutan and Women are leadership global, that was really the genesis and the foundations of what I've created today. Was there a moment in that journey where you weren't doing what you felt like you were meant to be doing that led to the creation of, hey, I'm gonna stop being in the more corporate space and I am gonna lean into this entrepreneurial side and calling? Yeah, and I really want to emphasize I love my time in the corporate world. And I think when we tune into our intuition, it is like our compass. It will give us the signs if we pay attention. And for many years, I'd wake up in the morning excited to go to work. Um, it because I was learning, I was growing. And I think I just got to a space where I'm like, you know what, I can do this job really well. And when I looked ahead, I didn't see where in the organization I could step into. It didn't excite me. Um, and I think that was the first signal which I paid attention to. I did pay attention to it, but I didn't know what to do with it. Um, and at the time I hired a coach because I I wrongly assumed if I kind of went to them and I kind of threw some money at the situation, they'd give me my blueprint to say, well, look, this is what the next step looks like. But it it was much more deep introspective because she said, you know, who are you? What do you care about? What matters to you? And I think for so long I'd really um my compensation, my bonus each year, that had been a really defining factor of self-worth and validation that I was doing a good job. And and I think I got to a point probably where I was financially comfortable and we had a nice home, and and I'm like, but it's not all about the money now. There, there are there are other things that I haven't yet explored about myself that that that they're the things that are gonna bring me alive. Um and so really it was, I think getting a coach that held the mirror up, and I don't think I'd really held the mirror up before. I'd kind of lost my sense of identity, but but I was doing the things that I thought I loved, but I'd kind of just fallen out of love a bit with them. Okay. I feel like there's a lot to unpack there. So I'm gonna ask a couple of follow-ups. How long between feeling like there was something there and you'd fallen out of love with what you were doing, and there was this inkling of what could be, how long between that kind of moment and and leaving and starting the next thing? Oh, I'd say it was a good few years. Um, definitely a few years, because I convinced myself, and actually people around me kept saying, But you love your job, you love your job. Because I used to tell everyone, I love my job. Like, and so I think I'd people at like you know, you know, the friends and like you're just having a little, you know, you're having a dip. Um, but I think when there's a recurring pattern, but I think my thing was I didn't know what to do about it. Um because my world for so long had been fairly narrowly defined. It was in markets, so I didn't know what a world outside of that would look like. And I was offered a forced pause with my health. Um uh so I'd over the years I'd had skin cancer, I'd had a thyroid issue, I'd had miscarriages, and like I had these moments in my life where my body was giving me a whisper of like, you know what, just you know, slow things down, just pace things a little bit. And I didn't. I didn't listen. I didn't listen um to those whispers. So I think my body was giving me the signs that, you know what, that there's there's a there's a there's frictional, there's a rub here, you know, because if we love what we do, that rub doesn't, it might exist a little bit, but not in the extremes that it it was for me. And I ended up having a burnout and adrenal fatigue, and I went to the doctors and I'd self-diagnosed glandular fever because all the condition, all the symptoms pointed to that. And um, but it was it was adrenal fatigue, and he at the time said, right, you need to take a week off work. And I said, I can't, I can't like a week, like you know, people don't take time off. Like, you know, people go in sick, and I might have shared this story with you before, Caroline, but he said, Look, if you don't change the way you live, you are not gonna see your children grow up. And that was a truth that I hadn't um really uh thought about. People who are parents, you know, your children are some of the most, well, probably the most important people in your lives. And my realization at that moment was that I needed to make some better choices, ones that could give me vitality and longevity, or put me in the best position for vitality and longevity. And what was, I suppose I draw reflection on now is that as soon as he spoke about my children, everything shifted for me. Everything shifted, like it was like a night and day. And it's interesting how I couldn't have given myself that permission slip. I knew I wanted to do something different, and but I I couldn't give myself a permission to slow down, take a beat. And I had, I think it was five or six weeks off work because my body literally was this like it's shutting down. I think it's like if you don't take a pause, we're we're like we're gonna fall. We will force, we will force change. We will force change. Yes. But it was the it was it's that was a moment where I can honestly say my health health was my biggest challenge, but also my saviour. Because that five, six weeks gave me space. And space and time is the ultimate luxury in today's world. Like, I mean, well, for me it is, maybe other people have got mastered uh space and time much better. But that was the moment where I'm like, no, now is the time that I need to make that change. And it was such an awakening within me that that then I was like, right, okay, so so now I'm putting, I'm putting the kind of a flag in the sand. And I was like, right, so what am I going to do differently? Like, because I've been here before and I've gone straight back into old patterns. And that's where I started journaling. I started having conversations with people to be like, right, to really do that inward reflection. What did I enjoy? What brought me alive? You know, what could I see myself doing in the future? But equally having that internal board of directors around me who could see the things within me that I couldn't see within myself. Uh, because I think, I'd say women especially, we we often diminish ourselves. We don't see all that unlocked potential. And that's where I think I had people around me to help illuminate that. So it probably took 18 months from like that moment, but let's be clear, there was there was a couple of years before that. But 18 months from like, right, now it changes. Um, but I'm not a total leap of faith. I'm more of a calculated risk in the sense of I didn't want to leave a job that had reputational capital, financial security, and and just dive into some unknown territory without having explored it first, that would have felt a little bit reckless. Um, so I wanted to, I suppose I started a research project. And that research project just gave me insight, gave me information, and it opened new introductions and new connections, and that exploratory journey, ultimately, you know, 18 months of that exploratory journey, I'd created a business, I'd done my qualifications in in coaching, and and I look back and I think it was just a very meaningful period of my life because it it was a proper chapter change. Let's talk journaling for a little bit because it's something you encourage us to do in your leadership groups with executive women. And I'll be honest, I I actually spent some time doing one uh over the over the holiday break. And, you know, you you talked about you need people who hold up the mirror and kind of, you know, you have all the feelings of what I'm supposed to do and the shoulds and the expectations and the weight of a change. How in your journaling, if you know, did you find space to really be honest? I I read a really interesting quote about journaling uh that like most people still are convinced someone's going to read their journal. And so they write it almost as a performative. When you read this about me, you will think certain things. So I'd love, do you have advice to share from your experience in doing it in a way that obviously did catalyze big change of how to get really authentically honest, even if it's not necessarily in the moment, what you want to see reflected back at you? What has your sort of strategy been for doing it in a way that isn't just telling yourself the things you're supposed to tell yourself? It what a great question. I think probably at the start, I was like, what if my husband reads this? And I suppose sometimes now I think, because I can sometimes BMW bitchbone and whine about my children. I'm like, what if they see this when they're older? But it's just an honest reflection of where I'm at in that moment. And I think I was encouraged to journal maybe like 10 years ago. And at the start, I'm like, I like journal. Like, I don't know, what does that even look like? You know, I, you know, I'm gone were the days of having a notebook and a pen and paper and and and writing. Um, but it's kind of like start where you're at. And because I sometimes think if it's quantum leaps of like, right, you have to journal for half an hour, you have to write 10 pages, then the getting started becomes really, really difficult. So I set myself many goals to start with. It might be right, I'm gonna journal for five minutes, and I'm just gonna not even set myself a question. I'm just gonna write my pen on the paper, and I'm just gonna see wherever it takes me. There's no judgment, there's no filter, there's no screening, I don't care about punctuation. And so I do five minutes on that, and then I go back and I'd be like, right, I'm gonna now spend five minutes reading what I've written, and I'm gonna underscore or get my highlighter pen on words that resonate. When I'm reading that journal back, there's an emotional connection with that word or statement in some way. So I do that for a few minutes or five minutes, and then I go, then I'd spend the next five minutes like, okay, so the things I've highlighted, why does that matter? Why, you know, what why why am I even highlighting that? What it stirred within me. And it it encouraged me to go layers deeper, but very um step by step, like little step by little step. Um, so that was a process that worked for me. Everyone will have their own um way of engaging with it. And sometimes it's about giving yourself a question, you know, who am I is a great one. Like, who am I? Because often we'll start with labels. I'm a mum, I'm a CMO, I'm a uh I'm a wife, I'm a friend, but like, who am I? Like, what do I care about? And I've for me, I believe that, you know, uh people can journal on a phone or on a uh, you know, on a computer, but actually there's something about that pen to paper connection that I believe it's just drawing out more insights. Um so that's how I've and look, now I can journal, I can be like, right, I'm just gonna see what comes up and I can write 10 pages or and sometimes I never go back to it. So I never write now with the intention that I'm gonna go back to it. Yet sometimes I do. So I think it's finding your own method that works for you, but start in a way that feels accessible, start in a way that feels interesting, and because I think it's one of those things, the more you engage with it, if you see there's value, it's like, okay, I'm gonna do another, I'm gonna do it again tomorrow. Um, and then be consistent, I think. You know, be consistent because that's with all these things, that's where the marginal gains really happen when you start to be consistent. And the the most important relationship we have is with ourselves, and I think journaling is that it helps cultivate that connection. So, how did you eventually know you were on the right path? If someone had talked to me about the word intuition 10 years ago, I'd have been like, oh, it's all woo-hoo, don't even know what that means. I I think um, like there are signs all around us, and I think I've really tuned in to I know when I feel excitement, I know when I feel scared, and scared for me, as long as it's not crazy, you know, I'm climbing up a mountain without any safety equipment. But if something scares me, often that means I'm on the right path. You know, when I've written books, when I started my podcast, you know, those things really scared me because there was a fear of judgment, fear of what people may think. But actually, if it scares me, it's like that's growth. So the right path, I look, I started really small. I started with a few coaching clients, and I really one of the mantras that one of my coaches shared with me is like, be open to everything and attached to nothing. Be open to everything, attached to nothing, because we can be so defined on I have to be on this path, I have to reach this goal. But if we're so close to that goal, we're sometimes missing all the opportunities around us. So at the beginning, I kind of said yes to everything because I'm like, you know what, on this new path, I don't know yet what are the things that are going to excite me. But I know when I say yes and I can come from a place of experience, I'll know the things I want more of, and I know the things that will have been like, you know what, that was a great experience, but I, you know, that's not the type of work or that they're not the type of clients that I want to work with. So I'd say intuitively, and I suppose on the right path when all of my business has been based on word of mouth and referral, when you get, you know, referrals for for new clients, new opportunities, new speaking engagements. I've had to really encourage myself to take a moment to acknowledge that because that's validation. I'm so quick onto the next thing and and the doing. I don't always take that moment just to pause and be like, you know what? Yeah, let me just take that in. That that that's that's recognition of what I've done, or recognition of the value that that client's had in that coaching work, which means now they're bringing me into their team or they're connecting me to one of their you know, C-suite industry uh friends. So many, yeah, intuition and paying attention to the signals that have that have validated this is, yeah, this is the right path. I love that. Um, and now you've been on that path for a long time, and and you know, you've certainly advised lots of lots of companies and names of individuals that people would know. And I'm curious, you know, one of the things that I would call your superpower is the ability to recognize and name patterns. Um have you seen patterns in the work you're doing of what really makes leaders sort of effective in that next, you know, there's there's leadership, there's good leadership, and then there's sort of that 1% of leadership that is truly excellent. Have you come to identify certain things that define excellence in that realm? Yeah, it's it's another great question. I think I'll I'll go with three things. I think if I look at the book Stratospheric CEOs, what are which is where I you know profile extraordinary leaders from across the industry, what are some of the defining features? One is passion. They love what they do. And that doesn't mean that every day they wake up and it's um it's not without its obstacles, it's not without its challenges, but on balance, there is joy in what they do. And I think when we have that passion, passion's contagious. When you walk into a room, you can tell if a leader is enthused, is excited about the vision. So, you know, that creates you know that ROI, that ripple of impact, that, you know, that spreads throughout an organization. So I think passion and love for what they do is really important because life, our careers, it is the journey. And I think sometimes we can get fixated on that destination. And when we get to the destination, I remember when I ran the New York Marathon years ago, I got to the end and I was like, okay, well, that's the marathon. And my friend, she was all very excited about the getting to the finish line. But for me, it was about the training every week, you know, running my first 10 miles, running my first 11 miles. I've deviated there because there's the passion and the journey for me are so critical because none of us know, none of us know what's around the corner. So loving what you do is really important. I think another defining feature is the ability to execute. Um there are loads of great ideas in the world, um, but there are very few individuals who have the risks, risk tolerance, the um ability to back themselves, that unwavering belief uh in their idea, and then they execute on that. And in retrospect, people can be like, oh, they made it look really easy, and and you know, people see the iceberg, the success, the accomplishments, the accolades. They don't see that, that submerged piece of the iceberg. Um so I think the ability to execute and execute well, and when we think about execution is changing paths. You just mentioned the word like changing paths when um when a new path opens up is really critical. And then I think the third piece is making that sustainable productivity, making that a choice. Because in the stratosphere, you know, in any leadership role, there are so many demands of your time. And I think often the demands of you will be outstripped by your capacity. So you have to have a clear sense of the strategies you need in place to enable you to operate at that level. Um, because you can love what you do, if I go back to number one, you can love what you do and have joy, and you can still burn out. So I think knowing it goes back to that self-leadership when you know what energizes you, what fuels you, whether it's family, whether it's exercise, whether it's reading, going on holidays, but like having whatever that is, having that in place that enables you to do your best work. And a lot of people talk, you know, we all know we've got to take care of ourselves, like, you know, that's not telling anyone anything new, but the ability to actually do that probably goes to the second piece, like the ability to actually execute on that is quite different. So I think passion for what they do, the ability to execute and execute well, of course, correct when things are not going according to plan, and sustainable, you know, that resilience, that sustainable productivity, I think they are critical and not not things that you wouldn't you probably wouldn't speak to, but when it's about it being lived and breathed, it like wholeheartedly. I love that because I think what I'm hearing there is most leaders have an idea of what they should be doing. They probably have 85% of those things, and the real difference is actually in the basics, right? Which is who can put it into practice, who who is brave enough, but also consistent enough to do the thing day after day to climb the mountain, which for most of us does not happen in a helicopter to the top. It happens sort of, you know, step step up by step up. Um, and I think that that is, you know, what's interesting with that is that that also goes to the how do you also set the limits so you don't burn out? Because I would imagine that with many of the people you're working with, they have these huge ambitions and capabilities. What is your work with them and helping them sort of put that in? You use the word container a lot, which I love. Like, how do you put that in a container so that it isn't bigger than your capacity is going to be and and you're not. Going to hit that burnout point. Yeah. I think several things come up. I think the first one is who you surround yourself with really matters. Like when I look at stratospheric leaders, they have the Avengers around them. They are prepared to hire people who are smarter than them. They empower, they delegate. Like the the execution of the vision doesn't sit solely on their shoulders. So I think who you surround yourself with matters, and then the ability to let go. The ability to let go and let people do what you've hired them to do. Because that gives you mind share. It gives you space, it gives you capacity. You know, too often, you know, you see leaders who are, you know, they talk about delegating and powering, but they're too in the weeds. They're too close. Uh they're too micromanaging. Um, so I think who you surround yourself with really, really matters. Um, I think also in that that circle you surround yourself with, uh, with your leadership team, but also your internal board of directors, it's having people who will tell you when you're entering that place of diminishing returns. Um, I don't think we always recognize it in ourselves, you know, when maybe our decision making isn't where it needs to be. Um, you know, we we we are like we're taking on too much. Um, having those people who can help hold the mirror up, I think is really important. And that's a very trusted relationship because having those truth tellers, they are people that, you know, you want to have people that you that you that care about you that you trust. So when they're telling you, they have your best interests at heart. Um and and I think it's also acknowledging as a leader, there will be times when you operate in the energy red zone. It might be you're going through an acquisition, you're yeah, in some kind of MA activity, um, just before Investor Day, or you know, what that there are going to be times where look, the demands are heavier than normal, but it's as long as that's not the pattern, that's not the 24-7, but that's you know, bucketed in periods because there's a difference between chronic stress and acute stress. So um, acute stress is um, let's say, you know, where my father passed away when I lost a friend recently, like that's acute stress and like it's painful and it's hard. And that that stress is wrapped up in a period of time, and it doesn't mean that grief doesn't continue or you know, but it's wrapped up in a period of time. Chronic stress is that low undercurrent that can be with us all the time. And that's the stress that if that's left unattended to, we don't have strategies to mitigate it, that's the stress that can be most damaging. So I think it's helping leaders, you know, when they are entering those places of chronic stress, you know, what are their strategy strategies to mitigate it in order that they can really be as resourced as they can be, but knowing as a leader, there are certain obligations, certain asks of them that that hence you've got to really love what you do and have that passion because leadership is not, it definitely is not for the faint-hearted. I love the sort of build your kitchen cabinet, build your set of advisors. You know, I think I think that sometimes there's this assumption that those are people that just come along the whole journey with you. They they were there in the beginning, they're your trusted friends, they're there with you when you reach the top. And certainly that has not necessarily been my experience or the experience of a lot of other, you know, executives that I've talked to. And I think that finding time to build those relationships can be hard. That's an easy thing to put on the back burner of the list of must-do's and to-dos. How do you advise people to go about sort of thinking about who those people are and maybe where there's gaps? And hey, you need somebody who can help you on this, be this kind of a mirror to you. And then, and then how do you how do you find those? Because to your point, it also has to be this trusted relationship. So it's not necessarily always hire somebody who who serves in that role. So, how do you build that type of community at that level? Yeah, so I I think relationship currency is so critical because no one moves upwards, onwards in an organization in their careers without the help and support of others. And the same way if we think of a DRW or a Nasdaq, you know, they have that board of directors and you know, th there'll be people who are specialized, it might be in cyber, it might be in crypto. You know, you've got people that you can draw upon their knowledge and insight as and when you need to need it. And I think when we when people are thinking about building their internal board of directors or that kitchen cabinet you you you spoke to, it I think it's it's it's not doing it when you need it, but it's about this being, you're doing it all the time. You know, when you're engaged in conversations, and these, as you said, these could be people that you've been with you since childhood, you've met in a certain chapter in your career, or equally someone you've just met who you think, wow, there's a real symbiosis here, there's a real connection. And I want to make sure I nurture that connection and stay in contact with them. So if I need advice on something, you know, I can go to them. And I think it's also being really clear when you think about your internal board of directors. What are the hats that you need? You know, is it a sounding board, um, a sounding board for particular areas? Is it an accountability partner? Is it a truth teller? Is it somebody a champion? Like, you know, I've got friends, like you're one of them, he'll be that champion when, you know, when we're sometimes filled with self-doubt, he'll help you see the things in yourself that you might not be seeing. This is like an always on uh building relationships, you know, and and when you're connecting with people, just pay attention to where does they feel there's a connection that could be nurtured. And and I think we can often find we're so busy that we try and go it alone, we don't want to ask for help. And actually, people are often really willing to give help if we ask. And I think if we're asking for help, it's being really clear on what is the help I'm seeking? Do I want you to be a sounding board? Do I want you just to listen? But you know, I see I hear CEOs who just sometimes want to vent because they don't have places to vent, they don't have places where they can release the pressure valve because they're that there's always um they're expected to behave and act in a certain way, and you know, what they share can be sensitive. So it's it's what's the role you need that person to perform and and and and being very clear with that. What's the most common leadership blind spot that you see amongst your clients? That they assume that if they've shared um, let's say, a vision or a strategy, they've shared it in a town hall or they've shared it at a leadership team meeting, that everyone's on board. Um so I think it's yeah, they they they believe there's alignment. Um, and you know, like I say to a lot of leaders, you know, you have to be that chief repetition officer, that CRO, that chief reinforcement officer. Transparency is equity, you've got to communicate and over-communicate strategies and vision because people hear things in different ways. And just because you've said something once doesn't mean it's landed, doesn't mean someone's fully understood and um taken on board like what you're sharing. So that, I mean, there's a number of blind spots, but that would be you're making an assumption um that people have understood what you've shared. You're speaking my language there as the chief communications officer who tells many of our executives that when you're tired of saying something, everyone is just finally starting to hear you. It's true. It's really true. And it it's and and and and I think it's also um recognizing that people hear things in different ways. Some people are auditory, so you know you they'll hear you. Other people, it's that they're visual, so they need to see you, and some kinesthetic, they need to feel the energy behind the words. Um, and I think sometimes we can share, or leaders can share a message in their their their leadership, you know, that their uh their preference, whether it's you know how they choose to hear a message, and that might not be how everyone else really, you know, processes the messages. Where do very successful leaders tend to overestimate themselves? That's a really good question. I think it's um I spoke a minute ago to resilience, and I know that's a word that's banded around a lot, so I'm very conscious in my choice of that. There are so many Arsenal leaders, more so than ever before. You their stakeholders are on 24-7. And I and I think people who are, you know, who choose to step into that role of leadership, they are resilient. They are people who can run fast. And we all, I said, we can love what we do and still burn out. Uh, we only have one energy tank. I think it can be overestimating the energy they have at times. What distinguishes leaders who continue to grow from those who plateau in your experience? The way I think about plateauing, it's like, is it a forced plateau or one you've chosen? There'll, I've seen people in their careers, you know, friends and people I've worked with before who have reached their own defined ceiling. Um, because success means different things to different people. You know, some people want to be a CEO, they want to be the decision maker in the room, they want to be on a board. Um, you know, if we think of trivial pursuit and all those pieces in that pie, you know, some people are like, well, look, I want to be maybe an MD, but I want to make sure I'm home every day at 6 p.m. to have dinner with my children. I don't want to be traveling. I um I want to make sure I can get to they know what success means to them. So, and they know what that next level, the expectations look like. And that's just not for them. So I think sometimes that plateau in a career is chosen. It's chosen by you. It goes to that self-leadership. People really know themselves. And so they're like, look, I'm I'm happy and I'm and I'm happy to acclimatize at this level. I think others, that plateau is a forced, it's a forced plateau because they don't have a willingness to learn, to be agile, you know, the world is evolving at record pace around us, and they haven't, they're just not adaptable. Um they've been given feedback about how they can iterate their that their own self-leadership and leadership in the workplace. And that they listen, or maybe they don't listen, but they they certainly don't take action. And that adaptability piece is really key because in today's world, you have to be adaptable. Um, you just have to look at technologies, the advancements that we're we're seeing. It's the there's the great saying, I think, by Jim Collins, you know, the what got you here won't get you there. There are many skills and defining features that kind of get us to a level of success. But that next level, it requires us to you know to look at what does that next step up, what's needed for that. And often it's very different. And what about for you? What is what is your next step look like? What does your continued evolution look like? It's a really good question, holding the mirror up to me. Um one of my words for this year is consistent. I I talked about you know leaders having systems and strategies in place for their own well-being, their vitality. And when I'm on top of my game, I'm so consistent with my fuel sources, putting them in, you know, and for me getting the right amount of sleep. And I just know the things that that that that work for me, but I kind of swing from being consistent to really inconsistent. And so this year it's about consistency and recognising some is better than none. So let's say, you know, one of my goals is half an hour of exercise a day and I only manage 10 minutes. Well, look, some is better than none. But consistency is just, and I look at my son, he's got a podcast, and he's consistent. And I look at him and I think that's one I water embody, that consistency. And another thing for me next year is really that inner faith, that self-trust. Um I I often can lean into second-guessing myself, which is not always a bad thing, you know, if it's because you don't want to sometimes go at pace that you're not thinking things through. But I think I can sometimes overthink and it's like really owning my qualities, what I bring. And just coming from that, I want to embody that unwavering belief I see in the entrepreneurs that I that I work with because it's so infectious, it's so palpable. And when I'm in the room with them, I I come out feeling more radiant, more energized, they activate my thinking. And so it's just trusting that what I'm doing in the world is valued, it's creating value. And um yeah, and people can leverage those insights to really influence, you know, their own trajectory in this world. Not everyone gets to come in and have a one-on-one conversation with you, but obviously you have a wide listener base of other senior leaders, um, maybe some of whom are starting to think, huh, I wonder what is is next, if there is that next level and I want to push for that. And so I'm curious, is there a question that you would invite them to maybe sit with? The picture that comes up for me as you're saying that is the is the you know, when it the archers, you know, the the the the board where you know got the bow and arrow. And I think sometimes you know if we think about an arrow to hit the target, you've got to pull the arrow, get that tension. So it is that slowing down to go faster, it's creating space, but being really intentional about creating that space. And it will be different questions for different people. I I first of all want to explore like what do I care about? What matters to me? As you go through your career, you're building experience, you're um making new connections. Listen to that intuition. You know, what are the things that I really enjoy? Because there's a continuum. We can love many things, but then if we had to grade things, we would start to see what are the things that I most enjoy and why. What is it about that? Is it the culture? Was it the people I work with? Was it the job itself? Start to pay attention to those things. Um, because I think that gives you data points. And and I think today's world, we've come, you know, we've become these human doings. It's go, go, go, it's constant, that we've kind of lost connection. Well, I see this, maybe you know, that there's others who are more connected to themselves, but we've kind of lost that connection to ourselves. And my path might be very different to your path. No one can tell us the stuff that's in here. It's for us to kind of really, you know, when we change the questions we ask ourselves, we start to change our experience because it's offering us insight. So I would first of all just encourage people to really pay attention to what are the things that light them up. Like listen to those body whispers because the body can't talk, but it can give you the vital clues if you pay attention. Okay, so we're gonna end with my favorite way to close these conversations out. I do this with every executive I sit down with, whether it's in one of our town halls or when I'm moderating my husband's podcast every once in a while. A quick fire rabbit round. So your job is first thing that comes to mind, you're gonna say it. Are you ready? Yes. And can I say you've not shared this with these these questions before? So this is very much it's part of the rules of the road of this, it really has to be instinct. Okay. Early bird or night owl? Nellybird. Usual order at the coffee shop. Oh peppermint tea. Book, other than your amazing ones, that you always recommend someone reads. Oh gosh. Oh, there's so many. Um, the four agreements. What is your hidden superpower? See, I don't know if I have superpower hidden superpower. I'm gonna answer this one for you. You can make anything into a memorable acronym like instant. Let's go with that. I like that one. Favorite family activity. Oh, we this holiday's been playing dance with my children. Place you most want to visit. Costa Rica. The most unleader-like thing you enjoy. I mean, surely you watch bad TV or you listen to rap music or something. Yeah, I listen, yes, what do I what I again I yeah, I used to love watching the Kardashians just because it was off-switch TV. I love that. One thing people are surprised to learn about you once they know you well. That I'm really highly judgmental. And finally, one habit that makes you better at your work but isn't obviously productive. My morning routine. Love it. And that's a wrap. Georgie, what an honor and a treat to get to host this conversation with you. On behalf of our fellow Constellation Cohorts, which is a group of executive women that you gather and advise. I want it on record here that you make us better leaders through your warmth, your curiosity, and your wisdom. So thank you, and thanks to all of you for listening. If you want to see the full episode, please do look at Apple and Spotify under Stratospheric Leaders, or go to YouTube where it'll be under Georgie Dickens. I hope you enjoyed the full episode. There are so many great sound bites shared.