#11 Keyvan Mohajer: Inspiration, Impact and a Multi-Billion-Dollar AI Growth Story.

In this episode of Stratospheric Leaders, I sit down with Keyvan Mohajer, Co-founder & CEO of SoundHound AI - a technical innovator reshaping how we live, work, and interact with AI.

From selling bread at age ten to leading a $7B company powering billions of voice interactions worldwide, Keyvan’s journey is one of vision, grit, and relentless innovation.

He shares how childhood curiosity, sci-fi imagination, and his father’s wisdom shaped his path and why he believes the AI revolution is only just beginning.

This is a story of bold ideas, unshakable persistence, and building a legacy of real-world impact.

Key Takeaways:

Vision + Faith Beat the Odds - When all the data says you’ll fail, it’s faith, persistence, and belief in your vision that carry you forward.

Learn from Everyone, Everywhere — Great ideas, advice, and inspiration can come from anyone and anywhere, if you stay open and curious.

Leadership is Earned, Not Assigned — True leaders are chosen by their followers, not appointed by titles or superiors.

Resilience Fuels Repeatable Success — The toughest times offer the greatest lessons, and real success comes from building processes that can be repeated, not relying on luck.

Ride the Wave, Don’t Celebrate Too Long — Big shifts can drown you or lift you higher, depending on your mindset — so acknowledge wins, but keep moving forward.

If you want to learn more practical lessons and real-world leadership insights from remarkable founder CEOs, you can ⁠⁠⁠⁠order Georgie's book Stratospheric CEOs out now (⁠U.K⁠. & ⁠U.S.⁠).

Show Links

Website - https://www.georgiedickins.com

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgiedickins

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@GeorgieDickins-q7x

Transcript

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Hi, I'm Georgie Dickens, a host of Stratospheric Leaders, the podcast where I get to have inspired conversations with extraordinary leaders from across capital markets. Join me to hear their game-changing strategies, the personal stories and powerful sound bites behind their stratospheric success. Every episode packed with wisdom, insight, and real-world lessons, the stuff they simply don't teach you in business school. If you want to elevate your game, and most importantly, those around you, this podcast is for you. Enjoy. You are in for a real treat with this episode because I had the pleasure of sitting down with Kayvon Mahaja, a co-founder and CEO of Soundhound. Now, Soundhound is a voice and conversational AI company that isn't just riding the AI wave, but they are truly disrupting how we live, work, and interact with technology. Kavan's entrepreneurial spark showed up early. In fact, it was just age 10. He started buying dough for the equivalent of $1, baking a hundred mini breads and selling each for a dollar. Even then, at 10 years old, he was a hundred Xing his investment and learning the fundamentals of entrepreneurship, of buying power and creating value. And those early days also ignited a passion for technology and innovation. He dreamed at that early age of being a technical innovator, fascinated by AI. And he said his heartbeat faster, reading about AI and robots. Inspiration can come from anywhere. And he spoke to as a single ant carrying a grain of rice larger than itself, refusing to give up until it succeeded. And also science fiction, which pushed him to ask himself what exists in sci-fi? What exists in Star Trek that doesn't yet exist in real life? And how can we bring that into the world? Because that's where the real impact lies. Of course, building in uncharted territory means a setbacks and skeptics and people who are going to tell you you're crazy. And it's in those moments he turns into his father's advice. Even when the data tells you you'll fail, it's tapping into that inner faith, that inner faith that's deep inside you that you'll succeed. And that faith has paid off. 20 years after founding Sowantowed, the company now has a market cap approaching 7 billion. And it's a solution powers on millions of devices from cars to TVs, and they process billions of AI customer service interactions across some of the largest global enterprise brands in the world. And when it comes to uh AI transformation, Kayvane says, we are just getting started. So some are saying we're in a bubble, but he says it's only the beginning. This isn't just an entrepreneur who sees the future. He predicts it. And a legacy Kavan wants it to have is creating value for the world. And I think we can safely say, based on his impact to date, he's well and truly on that path. Enjoy the conversation. So, Kayvon, I am delighted to welcome you to an episode of Strathistoric Leaders. You are co-founder and CEO of Soundhound AI. I have done a lot of research on you, watched many videos, and there are so many. Your story is fascinating. And I'm looking forward to the listeners hearing about the, well, the arc of the journey, you know, how have you arrived to where you're at today? Before we start, I want to know where what was your first ever paid job? So let's rewind for a few decades. First ever paid job, and what did it teach you about work and life? Well, thank you for having me. Um, I think I've always been an entrepreneur, which is not necessarily a good thing for everyone. Um, and my first job that I remember that generated revenue was um I think I was around 10 years old, and uh and I started a little business. Um so uh there was a kids' playground near my house, and uh I made a small bonfire next to the uh you know where kids played, and I made fresh mini breads and sold them to the kids. So I went to the to the store and bought fresh dough for let's let's say a dollar equivalent, and then I made that to little tiny breads, uh, and I sold each for a dollar equivalent. So I kind of hundredxed my investments. I you know one dough became a hundred breads, and um and um you know was quite successful. Uh but the first thing I learned was that the concept of the buying power. Uh so kids of that age usually don't have money in their pocket, but when they ran home and asked their parents for just a dollar to buy fresh bread uh and have that kind of experience, um, most parents said, sure, here's a dollar to go buy fresh bread. And uh so the heat rate was high, and the parents that said no were eventually ashamed to saying yes because of other parents that said yes. Uh, and ultimately the most important lesson was you have to create value. And even though the value of a small mini bread by itself in a store is not as high as a dollar, the experience that I was delivering to these kids, first of all, to do to conduct a transaction at their age was fine, and then you know, you're playing, you're hungry, you you smell the bread, and then getting fresh hot bread was an experience that was worth a dollar. Um, and um, you know, ultimately you have to create value. I love that. You have to create value. And I'm curious I'm curious, you said um you feel like you've always been an entrepreneur, and it first, you know, one of your first recollections of it of it showing up was when you were 10 years old. Does entrepreneurship, does it run in your family? You know, when you track back through the generations, is there you know, is there a kind of a thread you can see? Yeah, you know, my dad was was an entrepreneur, he he was a civil engineer and he started a company, and um, and um starting the idea of starting something from nothing just is so rewarding uh that I was always you know drawn to it as a child and later on in life. Okay, starting something from nothing, and so that 10-year-old, if you could have imagined, well, I suppose we you know we dream as children, children you know like to daydream. What did you dream of becoming? And how far or close is that to where you're where you're at now? You know, I always wanted to be a technical innovator. Um, and um, you know, you you know, people like to pursue excellence, and then you you get inspired by different figures, and and for me it was the technical innovators that really spoke to me. And I was fascinated by you know artificial intelligence. You know, my even as a kid, my heart beat faster anytime like I read about AI and robots and and so on. Um and I I like entrepreneurship, so being a technical founder of a high-tech startup is very close to what I was dreaming about. It's interesting, isn't it, where you know your heartbeat faster reading about AI, um, robots, our body it whispers to us, and if we tune into it, it it tells us the things that ignite us and inspire us. And you said um I was inspired by different figures. If we go back to that child who you know who was you know dreamed of being a technical innovator, who inspired you? Who were you looking up to? Um, you know, I've learned to learn something from anybody, um and um you know different figures over the time have taught me different things. Um but it's interesting. Um I was thinking about who what was my defining moment for me, and my biggest inspiration was actually a very small ant. And I was a maybe five, six years old, I don't remember exactly how old I was, and you know, in those days there was no internet, and kids only played in dirt, so I was playing in dirt, and I saw this ant that was carrying a grain of rice, which was bigger than its body, and I was like, first I was fascinated. How can you carry something bigger than you and heavier than you? And then it started to climb this big step, um, which was which looked very hard, and I just watched it go all the way to the top and then didn't quite make it, just fell down. So the the rice was uh in one place and the ant was another place. Just when I picked it up again and tried again, and it fell again and it tried again. I just watched this ant for like an hour, and uh it finally made it, and that was a defining moment for me because um and it it just didn't give up and it finally succeeded and just kept trying. Um, and and I thought if I can be that ant, I will succeed. Um, and it you know, my life life is a struggle, and especially when you aim high, it's you know the path to to success is really hard, and it's always like like that. You try and you try, and and and it's it's it's not just about perseverance. The first time I told that story to my colleagues, oh, it's perseverance. And uh if you just keep doing the same thing, um, you know, there's a saying that you know the definition of insanity is you keep trying the same thing and expect different results. Each time you do it differently, right? Each time you learn from what didn't work, and you try again and you improve your approach, and each time you think this is it. This is this I'm not randomly throwing darts and trying to get a bullseye. Each time I'm gonna get the bullseye this time, and this time I have to aim a little bit to the right. And when it doesn't work, you adjust. Um, and that I guess my inspiration inspiration, my biggest inspiration was that little ant. I l uh what an extraordinary story, and and it's interesting because ants have so much to teach us, also about teammanship. There's a great there was a great um video on I think planet Earth that talked about ants that were in the middle of a fire or a current, or something was being flooded, and they all came together, this colony, and it was what becomes possible when you bring, you know, when when I said they they all came together. So I love the fact that you know we can take inspiration from people, but we can also take so much information inspiration from the system around us. And you said there, you know, I spent an hour watching it. So I think often we're in so the go-go-go, the busyness of life, and actually, if we slow down, nature gives us such valuable learnings. Absolutely. So, any more ant stories at the the ants the uh the more that have come up, or was it that one moment? Uh that that was a good defining moment. Um another person that inspired me was um um Charlie Chaplin. Um, and uh again as a kid I watched these movies, and a movie that probably this generation doesn't watch at all is um a movie called Modern Times. It's a really probably one of the best movies ever made. Um, and uh what inspired me was that Charlie Chaplin, if you look at just the Wikipedia page for it, it says director, Charlie Chaplin, producer, Charlie Chaplin, main actor, Charlie Chaplin, writer, Charlie Chaplin. And and that's not unusual these days. Like a lot of actors become producers and directors and writers. But if you go down, it said music, Charlotte Chaplin. And he wasn't a musician, but he made the music, and he worked with people, with musicians to help him bring his idea to life, and it was really good music, and just being well-rounded and being good at everything, understanding everything, not just outsourcing it and being the best. That really inspired me. And as a founder CEO running a high-tech company, I try to understand everything. I try to be good at everything. Um, worked with people who are better than me. Uh, I'm involved in technology, I'm involved in fundraising, in business development, in recruiting, um, strategy, and uh and I I really find that inspiring. Uh there's a very senior leader I work with on a on a for a Wall Street uh firm, and uh one of her leaders, her leadership team said she's an inch of an expert on everything. She can't, there's certain areas she can't be the expert, but she's like the inch of an expert. She could do everything if she needed to, and it's you said that it's it's about understanding everything. And isn't it interesting again? Where inspiration comes in so many different forms, and I haven't seen the modern times film, and I always go with recommendations, so that is gonna be one that I will be watching. And we we talked about inspirational figures, um, and there's people that have inspired us along our career. I you know, no one goes through the journey of uh of you know life professionally and personally without the support, advice, and and help of others along the way. What's been a piece of advice that you've been given on your journey that's that stayed with you? And who was who was the individual that gave it to you? Yeah, the number one advice I give uh is something I learned early on, actually, I learned it myself, was is is to um not follow any advice unless one you understand it, two, you believe in it. Um and uh let me clarify that it's really good to seek advice, and you know you can learn from something and not from anyone, and the more advice you seek is better, but don't blindly follow it. Um because no one knows your vision better than you, no one knows your situation better than you. And especially in the early days when I was a young founder, there are a lot of uncle and aunt figures around you, and they always want to tell you what to do, and and they mean well, right? You should do this, you should do that, you know. And and initially I was doing it, like either out of politeness or out of thinking they are wise and they're older and they are more experienced, and I followed some some, and some of them were good advice, some of them were not, and um, and I decided that I will seek advice, I will listen to anybody. If if somebody starts talking to me, like if I'm going down the hall and our receptionist says, Kayvon, you should do this. I stop and I listen. Um and it's surprising how amazing ideas can come from anywhere. Um, but I only follow an advice if I understand it and I believe that it's right. Uh and that's the advice I give to others. I love that. Oh, this this is just so honestly, these bite size here, you know, it's don't blindly follow. I only follow it if I understand it. And that sometimes means taking a pause. And and you said then, you know, just because people are wiser and older doesn't mean that they necessarily have all the answers. And and what I also heard you say is that the best pieces of advice can come from anyone. Like the receptionist may have, she may have observed something in your style or something that's so it's being open to different voices. Yeah, since you said that and we talked about movies, uh, another thing that really inspired me was uh the very ending of Ratatouille. There's movie ratatouille that says uh you know, it's about this mouse, this mouse that really wants to be a good chef, and he reads this book that says anyone can be a chef. Anyone can be a good chef, and that's the beginning of the movie, and at the very end, it's that not everyone can be a good chef, but a good chef can come from anywhere, right? So you could be a rat and you can go good chef, you can be a good chef, and like good advice can come from anywhere, and then we're recruiting. You know, initially, you know, we were all Stanford grads, like we were uh you know hiring our friends and classmates from Stanford, but then I learned that really, really good people can come from anywhere. You don't have to be a Stanford grad. You know, one of some of our best people were self-educated in the middle of nowhere, and they're amazing engineers and amazing scientists, amazing um leaders. Um, and you know, that level of diversity and looking under every rock, looking for gems, has been a source of success. And it's being very intentional around doing that, isn't it? Because it's very easy to hire from you know Stanford everyone as the intellectual horsepower of people, let's be clear, it's like the 0. You know, 01%. And and it's also you mentioned the word there, you know, diversity, the the the the cognitive diversity, you know, diversity comes in so many uh shapes and sizes, but being really intentional not to always hire people that look and sound and and are like you, but but it can and being open to the fact it can come from anywhere. Absolutely. And and I love what you you shared there about um the advice advice that that that you give, advice uh and what's a piece of advice somebody has given you specifically, uh, and it could have been from childhood or more more recently, but something that's really left an imprint on you. Um you know, it was I think there's something my dad said um when uh when the company was going through a very hard time, um and um this is many many years ago, and I would uh and I was talking to him, and the person was like, Oh, I'm so proud of you, and you have a company, and I was like, But that is not going well. And um, you know, rationally uh my rational thinking is going to fail. And all the data points, you know, as a scientist and engineer, I put the data points, and my prediction is that it's going to it's not going to succeed. Um and then he said, but you forgot about something. Uh it's you need to have faith. You know, sometimes um all the data points tell you you're going to fail. But you need to have faith that you will succeed. And just think about just have faith. And that helped me that day, and then it helped help me the next day, and eventually it worked out, eventually we succeeded. So I think it's important to be data-driven. Um, it's actually important not to be not to not rely on data when you're fighting the battle in front of you. You have to be data driven, but you need to have faith that you're gonna win the war. Um, and because don't want, and especially in entrepreneurship, statistically you will fail. Right? It's actually mind-boggling how all these rational people do something so irrational. Rational people, engineers, scientists, they start companies when you know that over 90% of the startups fail. Um, and because they have faith that you know they will succeed, and then you get the success stories, and that brings more of the same people to do the same thing, and that's just amazing. I I've worked a lot with uh founder CEOs that have gone, you know, that are that have done extraordinary things, and faith is such a common theme, this unwavering belief, and it's so infectious because it's it's when that faith is real, it's it's alive in your body, and I think there's such an energy field around us, and uh people can feel it, they can sense it, and it's it's that unwavering, like I can see the ometa future. And to your point, data is important, and that faith piece that that that is just it's just such uh an important part of uh being an entrepreneur, but because you said you know there'll be failures, there'll be setbacks, there'll be speed bumps, there'll be you know near misses, near death experiences. Like there's a lot on the founder journey, and there's such a resilience and a fortitude and a strength and a courage. And under but for me, I think faith is and it you can't buy it, like it it it it has to you have to believe it, like it has to come from that deep cellular, the the the deepest part of you. Yeah, and it's important to balance long-term thinking and short-term thinking. Long term, when you don't have enough data, you rely on faith and you rely on passion. Um, and short term, you have to be very analytical and execute. Um, and having that balance is important. It's interesting that your dad was the one that gave you the advice. Because I'm often saying to my children, like, listen to this, like I'm speaking, you know, wisely, and they're like, What do they have their earmuffs on? They're like, you know, it's mum speaking, so clearly they're what does she know? Uh and then it's interesting because I I I look back and I think that was exactly what I was like with my parents, and actually they were really wise. So uh there's a lesson here. Listen to our parents. Um, you have been at the helm of your company for uh two decades. Is it two around two decades? And and in our conversation and the videos I watched as I was preparing for uh for for today, there is clearly such a love, and we've just said this faith, a love, a passion, an enthusiasm for what you do. And there is still an energy spend. Um, so I was, you know, I was, I I initially was like, you know, how do you strike balance? But I don't I I've kind of backspace on the word balance. I just don't think balance, you know, there's trade offs, and if you want to be the 0.001%, you can't operate in the middle of the bell. Curve and have all this free, you know, an abundance of time. So, how you know how do you not burn out? How do you create sustainable success? Um I keep my life simple. And I only subscribe my time to what's the most important to me, which is my work and my loved ones. Um I work 12 to 16 hours a day, and even when I'm not working, part of my brain is working. Um, so it's always there. Uh but I spend time with my family and loved ones, and I prioritize them. Um and uh and I and I really enjoy my work. I think if you don't enjoy it, um it's really hard to keep going. Uh and uh and I try to be efficient. You know, you can you can spend 45 minutes to get 45 minutes of exercise, or you can spend three hours to get 45 minutes of exercise. You know, you can get ready, get in the car, drive somewhere, and get in, talk to people, and then exercise and come back. So I try to be the 45 for 45 as opposed to three hours for 45. So efficiencies is a key theme. I love that that the I there is uh I can't remember who I was speaking to easy, a leader. He said, I I know I intentionally didn't, I don't I didn't choose to play golf because it's it's a you know family's really important to me, and actually the weekends that's that's a whole chunk of time. So creating efficiencies. And and when you think about, you know, I'll just pivot here, moving into, you know, how do you personally think about success? Because there are many milestones, you know, successful milestones you've had. Um, but how do you think about success and and and the kind of the follow-up to the how has it evolved over time? I'm assuming it has evolved. So first we aim high, and then when we get there and it gets easier, we aim higher. And I tell my colleagues, if you're not humble, you're not aiming high enough. You know, no matter how good you are, um, there's always a higher bar that you can keep raise the bar higher, and then at some point so that you become humble because that's really challenging. Um success has to be repeatable. Uh you have to be able to set a goal and then you have to have a process to achieve it. If it's not repeatable, it's not useful. It's luck. Um, and the part that I feel uh it's changing is that you're becoming better at it. You're becoming better at making success repeatable. Um, and that when you ask, like, how does it evolve over time? Just getting better at repeating success and setting the goal, getting there and setting another goal, aiming higher. I've just written a book that's out next month. It's called Raise the Bar. And it's you, it's one of the leaders I've worked with, that's his motto, right? Raise the bar. And you mentioned that, and there's always a higher bar. And he talks about incrementalism, like it's he talks about raise the bar and then widen the gap because you raise the bar and you're ahead of the competition, you know. Now let's widen the gap. And that raising the bar, and in some of us, it's incremental, I think it does, but it's it's always be aiming higher, always be pushing to you know, to move that needle. And um when you think about and I'm not gonna say great companies, because I think great is I'm gonna go extraordinary, stratospheric. I love the word stratospheric. It was it's it's a word because for me it's it's that it's that rarefied atmosphere where few people um inhabit. And when people get to the stratosphere, there's one thing getting there, but it's quite another thing staying there. So, what do you think makes I'm gonna say a stratospheric company? So the obvious thing that comes to mind is you know great vision, great mission, great execution. But um uh if I want to say it differently, is um it it provides value to all the entities that are connected to it, right? So you know a company has customers, has investors, has employees, has partners, um, has families of the employees, and these are all the entities that are connected to it. And a great company provides great value to all those entities. And if if you do them, you last, right? There's no reason for you not to exist, right? And that's not always true. I mean, you could you could be a company that provides great value to customers, but not to its employees. Or you could be a company that is great for employees but doesn't create value for the world, doesn't have a good product. Um, and I think it's important to, you know, all you know, it's a complex organization with all these entities connected to it, um, and just create value for all of them. And and create great value for all of them, and that's what makes a great company that deserves to last a long time. The word that um came up for me uh listening to you was about um consistency of approach, like can it it, you know, there's an you know equality in terms of the shareholders, whether shareholders, clients, employees, but like you know, service all entities extraordinarily well. Yeah, so that's what makes a stratospheric company, uh, or that's what you know one of the defining features. What about uh extraordinary leadership? What does that look like to you in action? Actually, I talk to my colleagues a lot about leadership. Uh, and you know, some people come and say, you know, make me the manager or make me the leader of this team, and they want to be promoted. Um and so this topic comes up in those conversations. And I think great leaders are chosen by their followers, not assigned by their superiors. Um, so if you convince people that by following you you will lead them to a good place, they will follow you even if they don't have to follow you, right? So you can be the leader of your peers because they know by following you you will lead them to a good place. Um and and if you don't show them that, even if people have to report to you, they don't effectively follow you. You're just their manager and they just listen to what you're saying and go do their own thing because they think they'll have a better direction. And as a leader, especially in uncharted territory where we are, the path to success is not paved. And there are infinite possibilities in front of us. And the most important role as a leader is to pick the right direction and then inspire and convince people that that's the right path, um, especially by showing repeated examples that if you follow this, you will it will be a path to success. Yeah, I think there is um there's a real discernment between leadership and followership because followership, you use the word um people choose, and you know, we all have a choice where we go to work, the companies we work for, the the leaders we want to work for, and there's something there you can't buy followership. It it it's a function of how you show up. Um the the the the the faith that probably that people have in you in the mission. Um so that I I I that followership piece, you know, great leaders are chosen by their followers. I think that's if I'm paraphrasing correctly, that really landed. And I think it's such a and there aren't it's a rare thing to have followership, I I believe. Yeah, and it's it's partly you know inspiration and it's partly um demonstration that you you are able to. I mean, maybe you meet someone for the first time and they're just so inspiring and so I'm gonna give them a chance. Um but then if it if they show the path to success again and again and again, then you become their followers because they have demonstrated their leadership. A leader once said to me, you know, deliver on your promises, you know, do what you say, say what you're gonna do, and people build trust. And you know, we want to work for people we trust. And um and you were saying then it it it translates into action, you know, whatever your words are, like otherwise they're just words on a piece of paper. You can have the best strategy, but if there is an execution behind that, then it it it it it becomes very there's not a lot of worth in just words. And you look you've taken your your company public, I believe it was in 2022, and I uh how has your leadership style changed? I mean, I'm assuming then it has changed, it may not have done, but how has your approach changed uh now that you're managing a public company? It has changed. Um and I compare it to the early days, um, and it my my style had a lot of influence from my upbringing. So my parents rarely reprimanded me. They just provided a lot of love and support, love and support, love and support, and that uh and and that made me want to be better, and it I wanted to pursue excellence, maybe I wanted to make them proud because it's just I love them back. Uh, and that worked for me. Um doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Um so in the early days of Sound Han I mostly operated that way. I I provided love and support. I didn't provide I didn't reprimand. Um and um and I got surrounded by people that succeeded that way uh because they wanted to um prove excellence, um but it didn't work for everyone. Some people need more than that. Um and then I uh had a realization that there's a difference between being demanding and reprimanding, um and it's good to be demanding, uh, and I became more demanding and demanding and demanding and demanding, and that generated the next wave of really, really good people and contributors around me. Um, and um, you know, Jensen Huang of Nvidia said something that you know I don't like to fire people, I like to torture them to greatness. That made a lot of sense. I torture you to greatness, and I have incorporated that. Um, so uh just being demanding is working really well. I torture them to greatness. Uh that is one that I'm gonna remember. And you said there's a difference between being demanding and reprimanding, and that is such it's it's such a powerful quote, and I think it's it's it's so true, and it's knowing the difference between the two. Um and you can be demanding. If people wanna it's it's if people want to achieve these extraordinary missions and visions and uh and have the success that comes with that, well then there's a certain uh work ethic and discipline and drive that that's that's required to be on that journey. Correct. What keeps you awake at night? You know, I've I've been asked that before, um, so I've thought about it. Um so first I sleep really well because I'm exhausted by the time I go to bed. And and uh if if if I'm not exhausted, that means I didn't work hard enough that day. So that's uh maybe that's I shouldn't I don't deserve to sleep. Um the the honest answer is sometimes the excitement. Like if something is brewing that is just has so much potential, um, that excitement uh sometimes keeps me up. Um just because I think about all the possibilities. Um but like I think when people ask that question, they they mean what are you afraid of? And I have learned something. I've learned not to be afraid. Uh and I read somewhere, and I don't know if it's true or not, that the number one reason people drown is because they give in to fear. And you give in to fear, then you don't act smart. Uh, and then you just drown, you panic. And that happens in in life and it entrepreneurship, in entrepreneurship, it happens all the time where something happens that's really that seems scary. Um, and you know, I've had I've had company meetings where I tell that story, it's like don't be afraid. Because if the moment you give into fear, you will drown. Just understand it. Understand this big force that just happened. Maybe a competitor did something, or something externally happened that seems very powerful. Uh it may seem scary, but if you understand it, it can be an opportunity, right? A big wave can drown you, or you can ride it. And the bigger the wave, the bigger the ride. And that has happened so many times to us where some some people said, wow, we are doomed. And we turn that into the biggest the biggest inflection points on our journey. I love that. And I there's so many things I keep saying I love, but I genuinely mean I there's there's uh a big wave can drown you or you can ride the wave. It depends on how you look at it and also how you react in the moment. Uh and you said when you were talking about your your um your you know your sleep, um, that when you when you don't sleep, it's it's it's it's sometimes you've got an idea brewing and there's an excitement. And it took me to I saw the picture, I think it is your just your five-year-old behind you in your picture. And I was like, it's that childlike excitement of like I you know, before a birthday, of like, I know there's so much to come, and and I really and I and I relate to that. I think it's uh and actually it's a wonderful place to be because it's possibility, it's potential. You said I've learned not to be afraid, and we all have fears. I was curious, how have you learned not to be afraid? What what did that process look like? I I've learned that it's possible to turn something into that seems scary into something good. Um, and I'll give you some it's easier if I give you some examples. In 2015, we launched our voice AI platform, and we worked for 10 years in stealth to launch it, and it was great, you know, and we showed it to people, it was amazing, it was ahead of its time. We have demos that went viral, got millions of views. Um and then um Um a big tech company um kind of copied it like very quickly, they copied it, they called us. I'm not gonna mention their names, but they called us, asked some questions, and then they made a press release. You know, a month or two later, I was very identical, and um and then they put a lot of force behind it, they had a fund that was funding startups to use it. Um, and a lot of my colleagues said, This is it. You know, we worked for 10 years, they copied us, and they um uh this is the end. Like, how are we gonna compete with this? Uh and it was scary. Um But then I thought, well, first of all, they just this is the big wave. Can you ride it or can you let it drown you? Um and um as scary as they were uh with all their might, um they probably scared others too, other companies. Um so um so first of all it created more mind share, so that was good for us. But then I went to companies that maybe were worried about this other big tech player, and I told them the the world is gonna go into voice and AI, and and um you need an independent partner to be able to work with you, otherwise, big tech players they do everything and they they will build your products and they will learn from it and they will compete with you. So while they had a fund to fund startups, I created a fund for bigger companies to invest in us to create an independent player that's powerful enough to create options. So I actually I was able to raise, use that force of the big mighty wave to ride it and raise a lot of money for Soundhounds, and we used that money to internationalize. We had like we only supported English, then we started we had 30 languages, we put up we created offices in multiple countries in Europe and Asia, and then some of these uh partners that invested in us became our customers, um, and it just ended up being such a good thing for us. But the day that we learned about it, it sounded like a scary big wave that was gonna come and drown us. Um so I've learned to answer your question, I've learned that something that might seem scary at first, study it because there might be an opportunity here. It could be a good thing, and usually if you look hard enough, you can find it. It's taking that moment to um I suppose we're human beings, we're all emotional led, and we can some of us might panic, you know, we we all have a default state, but there is you but you can train your default state to be like, let me just pause, let me look for the opportunity here. And and often those moments, those wave moments, they're real inflection points, are they? When we look back, they they they they uh they propel us to doing maybe something earlier or something on a different pathway that we might not have even considered before. And the bigger they are, the the bigger the opportunity for that inflection point. Absolutely. It's it's a really interesting about when we just talked about you know how we manage fear because so much about its mindset. I just you know, it's we get to choose what mindset we bring to a situation if we just pause to see where we're on autopilot and actually what's the mindset that's the most more helpful one to bring into the situation. So I love how you shared that. Um when you think about leadership, uh I I asked at the beginning, you know, what what's some advice you've been given? And there are also things, it's a bit like the where this this this question comes like. When I had when I had my children, my first child, no, there's so many things no one warned me about. They told me about all the good things, the upsides, they didn't give me the reality of I'm not gonna sleep for six weeks. It's gonna feel pretty brutal. It's not the best time, um, but I will come through it. What is one thing no one warned you about when it it came to entrepreneurship? Um the first thing that comes to mind is what people did warn me about, which is uh it's a lonely job. Uh like being a CEO is a lonely job, being a leader is a lonely job. Uh, but that's okay. I've accepted that, and it doesn't have to be that lonely. You can always find your your mentor, your partner to to talk to and vent about. But um uh something I learned on the job that no one told me about is that um there are these very short moments that make it all worth it. Um the majority of the time it's really hard, right? Um working hard and it's just so hard and tiring and seems impossible at times. Uh, but then there are these these moments that you succeed, or you leapfrog, or you're the best, or you create value, you make people happy. Uh and those are so intensely rewarding that even though it sometimes they last for like 10 seconds, it makes it all worth it. And then you go back to grinding and you know, repeat. What have been some of those short moments for you where it it's it's it's been so palpable that this is all worth it? Um, you know, it's like when when someone who bet on me tells me they're happy with that bet, uh, and it doesn't have to be like investors, of course, um, but people who chose to work with us. Like, like uh like when I'm at like a holiday event, and then somebody's spouse comes and says, I'm really happy. My wife or husband works at Soundland. Uh I'm really happy. Just that war, that that's so rewarding that you've you know, you've uh you know, they chose, you know, they had options, people have options, and they chose to work with at Soundhand, and then their family is happy or they're happy with that choice. Or a customer who had been through RFQ process, and they had seven companies that did, and they chose us, and then six months later they are happy and they we do an announcement together and give us a statement and they talk about it. And um, I mean that that those are short moments. Uh or when we have a benchmark where our technology is outperforming others by a big margin, and we are everybody's thinking, how did Samhan do this? Uh it's it's like magic. Those short moments really make it all worth it. The small things really are the big things, aren't they? And and you you mentioned, and and this is a common theme that I hear with uh entrepreneurs and you know and leaders about the the loneliness of leadership. And it's interesting because when you're at that, you know, the CEO, you're not alone. You know, there's many people around you, your board, your investors, your leadership team, your family, and yet it can feel like a really lonely place. Um how do you deal with the loneliness that comes with the seat? Um well, part of it is just understanding and accepting it. Um but um it doesn't have to be that lonely. Um you know, I have uh obviously I haven't I've been to my wife a lot, so that's um uh I have that to keep me balanced. Um and then at work I have some colleagues, like our CFO and COO, for example, and there are others where we just talk very openly. Um we are our own biggest critics. I mean we have meetings that like if somebody listened to our meetings, like, are you guys okay? Just talk about how can we be better and how can we why are we not you know better than this and and criticize ourselves again and again. And and and I think it's important to have that. You you don't want to always be strong and and tell everyone it's gonna be okay, and um, and sometimes sometimes you need to be a leader, sometimes you need to be a partner, even to your colleagues. Um and I the story I came up with was um if you are the pilot of a plane and the plane you know you lose an engine, and you have to do this really hard thing to land it without with only one engine, or or with no engine, let's say. Um first of all, you you provide some transparency to you make an announcement, um, and but you you announce to the passengers that we lost an engine, you can see it by looking at the window, um, and we're gonna land. I know how to do this, it's possible. And I'm gonna land you guys, I'm gonna take you home. Um, and uh don't worry, don't panic. So that's sometimes you need to be that kind of a leader. Um but uh but sometimes you need to be more of a partner, right? So when I um when I proposed to my wife, I I told her um I can't promise that it's all gonna be okay, but I promise you that I will always try for us. I will always try. Um, and that's more of a partnership, and so you have to balance when are you have to be when are you gonna be the pilot? So tell everyone don't worry, we're gonna land and we're gonna be okay, and the engine is smoke coming out of it. Because they can't do anything about it. You have to go land the plane for them, and sometimes you need to be that you know a partner, like guys, this is hard. You know, we have to do this, we have to deliver it on time. It's it's you have you have to um you know do some fundraising and and we have to cut costs and we have to make this customer happy and we have to do make the impossible happen. And if you don't, it's gonna be really bad. Sometimes you have to kind of bring them in so we can work together as partners. And finding that balance is really important. If you don't pivot to being a partner sometimes, then it's a lot, it's it's a really lonely job and it's sad, and sometimes you fail, and then you're you're the only one to blame if it fails. And and that I I it's I really hear what you're saying there, and the um the the pilot analogy it's it's about transparency, isn't it? Because sometimes, you know, to own the fact that we've got an engine missing because people want transparency. They want to get, you know, and if we if if if when people operate from a place of clarity, they feel they're being uh you're giving them honest and real information, they might not like the journey. Um and equally just remind them, you know, to have confidence, you know, trust me, I know, I know, you know, I wanna I'm gonna try and land this plane and I'm gonna do my very best because uh all companies are gonna have tougher times, tough moments. And I think it's really then what you do in those defining moments that really that that really matter. And when leaders show up in that way, I think it it it builds such equity. It's that followership that we talked about. And the partnership, well, that I I it's it's recognizing when when you need to be that partner and when you need you know when you need to be when you need to be the pilot. Um and I want to just ask you a question about measurement. Uh there's a there's a great saying, uh well, I I think it's a great saying, um, but it's like what gets measured improves, you know, what we put our attention on expands. When you look at your business, um, and I think it's your business, otherwise it might be what you measure yourself personally, but what do you measure? I really like that saying, by the way. Uh what gets measured improves. Um I really like it. Uh we measure a lot of things. Uh so for our tech, the notable things are you know speed and accuracy, for example, of our technology. So are we faster than our competitors? Are we um are we more accurate? Um so we are proud of where we are, but we are never satisfied. Uh in the latest benchmark, for example, we are over 35% more accurate than our closest competitors. Our latency is four times better, and it's running at a lower cost, but we know we can do better, so just keep you're never satisfied. Um, in finance, we measure all the key performance indicators, you know, revenue, margin, balance sheet, um, growth, obviously, stock performance. Um, but the one thing that's really important to me personally is something I said earlier on this college is um uh if someone had a choice and bet on us, are they happy in hindsight with their decision, right? And that can apply to in many places investors, employees, and customers. So investors that chose to invest in us, customers that chose to work with us, and employees who chose to work at this company. And are they happy in hindsight? I I do measure that. I do, I don't, you know, some people close a deal and they forget about it, and the customers are happy and are happy three years later, or um or some sometimes people take the investors' money and then forget about it. But for me, it's really important. Uh like you take somebody's dollar, you want to be able to say, you know, in hind then to say in hindsight, that was a really good investment. That was my best investment. I that really is important to know. I thought that wasn't it's not just a good investment, that was my best investment. It that's such a good question uh for people to ask of themselves. And you said um, I'm proud of where we're at, but I'm never satisfied. And that goes, that really speaks to that that raising the bar that you mentioned. Uh you used the word KPIs, and uh I saw this, I think, on LinkedIn recently where they said, you know, KPIs, but KPIs are our you know key performance indicators, but it's keep people informed, keep people inspired, you know, keep people invigorated. They had lots of different KPIs. And I was like, that's true. There are you know, there are so many KPIs that are important to measure when it comes to when it comes to people. I'd love to hear a little bit about Soundhound. You know, I've I've spent time researching you, the the company, it's extraordinary. Um, but what do people need to know about? What would people be interested to know about Soundhound? Um, Soundhound is a voice and conversational AI company. Uh, we believe that speaking is the most natural way to interact with devices and services. Right? So, my five-year-old, the first thing she learned was talking. Like she did, you know, we have to teach her how to use a keyboard at some point or like touch screen or a mouse, and you know, to learn to deal with technology, but she knows how to speak and and listen to things. And actually, she's going around the house and trying to talk to every object, not everything listen, but uh we think ultimately uh every device will have a um voice AI interface. Um, and fortunately for these product creators, all they need is a microphone that's very small, it's very inexpensive. You get you don't need a touch screen, you don't need expensive equipment or uh or hardware, uh just a small microphone, and a partner like Soundhand, we provide uh a white label under your brand's voice assistant for your product. We are big in cars and TVs and like millions of cars and TVs, but ultimately every IoT device, tens of billions of IoT devices, um can have their own voice assistants. Um, and then the second thing we do is AI customer service. Um we believe um uh AI customer service will be as necessary for uh every business, just like Wi-Fi and electricity, right? You create a business, you sign up for internet, you sign up for electricity, you make a website, you make you sign up for AI customer service. That that day will come, and and users will prefer dealing with AI because it's there's no wait time, it's very capable, it's very patient. And we create AI customer service for businesses of all sizes, like from you know seven of the top ten financial institutions, you know, large enterprise brands and insurance and healthcare and so on, all the way to a single location restaurant, single location barbershop. And we have different flavors of our technology for different uh sectors. Um, and um and you're in hundreds of large enterprises, we're in over 10,000 merchant locations, um, and um you know something that we saw 20 years ago and it's finally happening. And I remember I'm when you were at university at Stanford, it am I right? I think you did uh you did a PhD in voice, um was it in voice and AI? This is a couple of years. Yeah, machine learning and speech recognition, yes. And at that time, when you could see this again for for all intents and purposes, unmet future, and you shared your vision of what the world was going to become. How did people respond to you then? Um, yeah, so uh I wanted to be a technical founder to a very high-tech company that would make a big impact. And um I was inspired by science fiction. Like I asked myself, what do we have in science fiction that we don't have in real life because that's the big impact. And you know, if you watch like Star Trek, they have so many things that we don't have. Uh and what we think is normal, they have like replicators and teleportation devices and spaceships that go faster than light. Uh, but the one that I thought would happen for sure in my lifetime was voice AI. So we would talk to robots and computers, they talk back, we have a conversation, we ask them questions, we ask them to do things, they're intelligent. Um, and I thought that's gonna happen for sure in my lifetime, and it would be a big change in our life, and I wanted to be part of that transformation. So I chose my PhD thesis to be in that area. Um, and then um uh and then and I went to do fundraising. I actually said it's gonna be 20 years. I said in 20 years we are going to talk to computers and I and I want to raise funding to do it. And at that time, most investors said that 20 years is too long, right? We don't we you know we may not our fund may not exist in 20 years. What can you do in three years? So I had to find a way to show milestones and and products along the way that would generate um value uh to you know it it I went to an interesting path to be able to do 10 years of RD to finally unveil our our engine back in 2015. And back then, could you have predicted could you predict the success that this you know sound hand, you know, you said there was 10 years of stealth mode. Uh investors were like, we you know, we don't know if we're gonna be around in 20, you know, 20 years' time. Could you have predicted where you're at now if you kind of transport yourself back to you know having finished your PhD? I think it goes back to the having faith kind of thing. Um the thing that I could visualize being very successful and very impactful, uh, but the path that got us here, absolutely not. I mean the the the um all the things that all the pivots that we had to do and um the things that happened, that the things that we did and the things that happened outside of our four walls that we took advantage of to get to where we are, absolutely I couldn't predict it. But I I had this long-term vision that it is gonna happen for sure. Um and I could see that we need a couple of more breakthroughs in computing, in technology, and I think at the pace of when you look at Moore's Law and everything else, it's gonna happen. Um, so I I was able to put it together that this is kind of a 20-year vision, and um, sometimes it doesn't happen to people, like if you might have a really good vision and you're too early, and the intersection doesn't happen, like you need to have an intersection between technology capability and the demand for the technology, right? And I'll give you two examples: autonomous driving, I think the demand is there, it's been there for a long time, but technology, I think it's getting close now, but you know, it um most of the last few years it just wasn't quite ready. Um, so you don't get the intersection. Uh the opposite example is virtual reality. I think the first time I put an Oculus on my head was so many years ago, and it was amazing. So I thought the technology was there, but we are not seeing mass adoption yet, so I haven't figured out how to make this um easy to be part of your life so that you get the mass adoption. But I think voice AI, we are fortunate that it's happening, right? So the technology is finally really good. It's like Star Trek good. It wasn't until three years ago, but finally it is, and um and people want it. Uh so we are fortunate that we are in our lifetime, the intersection is happening to something that we had the vision 20 years ago. We worked towards it. A lot of contribution came from us, a lot of it came from others, but we are able to run a really successful business with it. And if you look back over the last 20 years, what have been some of the bright spot moments where you're like, you know what, we're on the right path. We went through different phases. Um you know, the first the first was just building the tech. And um the first five to seven years of it was uh it seemed hard. Like there were so many moments that people said this is not gonna work. Uh, and then you had breakthroughs that wow, look at this. We can do something that others cannot do, and that gives you um the energy to keep going. Um so we we had that we had that moment on the tech, and then we had it on business, like because then we said, okay, let's go and sell this now to companies, and um initially was people were not opening the door. Uh you knock on the doors, you knock on the doors, and um you know, I remember one of the first meetings, somebody said, Do you really think people want to talk to their toasters? Um very discouraging, right? But I think nobody nobody says that anymore because yeah, of course we're gonna talk to our toasters and microwaves and washing machines and everything. We can talk to it, right? It's not a big deal. Um and there was a moment where we were winning POC budgets, and then we started winning IT budgets, right? So you win a POC budget from a company that is more forward-looking, they have an innovation budget on the side. So let's just see what is possible. You win those, and those don't scale. And now you're winning IT budgets because there's a company that has a mandate to go through an AI transformation, and they they know they are gonna spend a lot of money and they're gonna choose a partner, and then they knock on our door, and they knock on our door now, and then we uh so that was a big transformation that so we had it in our technology, and then now we have it in the business. And those bright spot moments, um how do you celebrate, how do you celebrate those? Very short, they're very short. Like I said, we have these like short moments, like maybe five, ten seconds. Um and it's dangerous to celebrate for too long, right? Because you you know you close your eyes and then the world passes by. Um so it's just we maybe we um do a high five and then we keep going. Um we had uh there was a moment where we had 100 million users of of our technology, like hundred million people had used our technology, and we had cake. We just had cake. We had a cake with 100 million, everybody came for like 10 minutes, you know, we clapped and everybody had a little cake and then back went back to work. So they're very short. Short and you're still making those moments to celebrate. Um we we do is is we acknowledge them and and and it also tells us that we are on the right path. So we we can keep going, we can go faster. And if you look ahead, so you know we've we've just had a you know the the last 20 years. If we were to speak, if I was to speak to you in I don't know if it's one year, five years, I don't even know what the right time scale is, but at a future moment in time, and you can tell me what that future moment in time is. What does ultimate success look like for you? You know, what is the ultimate goal? This is an AI disruption. So I've seen multiple disruptions in my life. Uh there was the dot-com, the internet, and then there was the mobile, uh, social, and then mobile. Um, and anytime there was a disruption, some new leaders emerged and the world changed. And they were all, you know, mostly positive. The world changed and became more positive. There's always some dangers that come with this transformation, and now we are in the AI transformation. I think it's gonna be bigger than the previous ones, and it's just starting. Some people say, Are we in the bubble? And that's absolutely not, it's just the beginning of it. Uh, and I I want Sanham to be one of the leaders in in AI, in this AI disruption, uh, a major force in it, a major contributor in it. Um of course that comes with a bigger market cap and bigger revenue and all that, so but those are just the consequences of just being a major force in this AI transformation and creating long-term value for the world, and that that keeps us going. And long-term value for the world. I mean, this isn't this is we're we're playing big kid. This is about impacting the world. And before we move into a very quick fire round, um, you know, when I was doing uh my research, there was a wonderful article uh article by Fortune who talked about uh your time at Stanford, how you'd worked with in you know Nvidia and and Yensen Huang. And I'd I'd I I'd just love to hear about that, a little bit about that relationship. You know, what is it, what did it teach you? Because obviously there was something that he saw in you where he knew that the the this is the success that was to come for you. Well the biggest thing I learned from NVIDIA is was um that um they their journey was long and hard. So was ours. Um and you read about how Nvidia went out of business like three times almost or even more. Uh, but look at them now. Um and I think our story is very similar. You know, we are you know, we had this vision that took a long time. We knew it was gonna take a long time, and we had a vision, we were not trying to get make quick money or anything, we were trying to make create value, like we wanted to innovate, make the next generation of AI technology, and um and um it was a long journey, it was a hard journey. Uh there were lots of um moments where people said you're not gonna make it. Uh, but we did. Uh, and every time we use NVD as an as an as an inspiration, like look at them now and look at those stories and we can do it. Yeah it's it's good to have examples isn't it of um of companies who've been there and done it because again we all need inspiration at times because it can be tough to your point it can be hard and people can doubt us and and and actually seeing that others have done it and and borrowing a little bit of that inspiration can be very additive. So I was gonna do what I was I was going to do I'd love to do just a very quick fire round um of several questions there's no right or wrong answer not a competition just to to get just to get hear more about you you're such an incredibly we just use the word inspiring such an inspiring I wouldn't say leader entrepreneur but I'm gonna go human being because to me that you know human being at the very core and my first question is what is a quality you most value in others integrity absolutely integrity and uh I think there is a triangle balance between you know three nodes of ambition capability and integrity so you can increase your ambition which is a good thing but then you need to you then you can go two ways you can elevate your capabilities to meet your ambition or you can decrease your integrity and I really care about integrity just push push your capability if you if you are aiming high you need to catch up to it by being more capable as opposed to and I see some people sacrifice their integrity to get there. Okay so integrity ambition and capability but integrity being the quality you most value your dream job outside of what you're doing now technical innovator you know I'm I'm an engineer and inventing is that things that are really hard to do that look like magic like people say well how do you do it that really really gives me joy I love that the I had a magician over for my birthday recently and I and I it just I love that how do you do it because I it's it just leaves me into such a um anything is possible and it's sleight of hand and uh but anyhow a superpower you would love to have and why being better at predicting the future and I'm not saying I want to see the future I want to predict the future based on the information I have and if I become better at it I think that is kind of like a superpower. I think we could say you're doing a pretty good job of that already but again to your point there's always room for betterment so uh we uh what is the legacy you want to leave behind um I want I want to create value for the world and I don't want to create value just for myself at the expense of others um you know you can take an apple from your neighbor you have one more apple they have one less but if you make a glowing sun everybody can light their candles and that's the type of value I want to create I love that one thing you can't work without um peace and stability you know and I'm lucky to live in a very peaceful and loving home and and the moment that is disturbed a little bit that I can't I can't work without it I can live without it. Yeah uh a great book or a Netflix show that you've watched or book you've read in the last year. There was a Netflix documentary called Life on Our Planet. I really enjoyed it it was well made and um a big lesson I mean you can just be entertained just watching it but a big lesson of it is that the world was ruled by these giant dinosaurs and the mammals that also existed they were just hiding in their shadows. But now those dinosaurs don't exist anymore and the mammals are ruling the planet and that can change again and I think that's that's a big lesson. And you mentioned your father earlier on um if we were to ask you know your parents what they're most proud of what would they say um that are that I didn't give up when it was hard um and that's that's one of the strengths of Samhan there were many moments in our history that the most rational choice was to throw in the towel but for us failure was never an option I love this this has been the most extraordinary conversation um it I I I mean I would love to just now share my best bits of but I've written I've written three pages of notes as you can see so I'm not even sure where to you're an extraordinary leader an extraordinary entrepreneur and there are so many nuggets of wisdom these bite-sized pieces that are gonna have such a profound impact and you talked about changing the world and you are and it's just such a privilege to be here with you listening to how you're doing that. So thank you for gifting us your time and these lessons at Evergreen you know they are going to have such a ripple in the world so I truly thank you for that. Thank you so much for having me and all the great questions that you asked. Thank you Kivan