Lance Uggla: The Fundamentals in Building a Billion-Dollar Business

In this episode of Stratospheric Leaders, Georgie welcomes back one of the show’s most popular guests, Lance Uggla, for a deep dive into the leadership lessons behind the book Raise The Bar. Together, Georgie and Lance explore what leadership looks like in practice, moving beyond theory into the habits, behaviours and decisions that separate good leaders from great ones.  

Drawing from decades of building and leading global businesses, Lance shares why work ethic, manners and awareness remain some of the most underrated advantages in modern leadership. He explains why being “above average” compounds over time, how strong relationships are built through genuine curiosity, and why awareness of the world around you remains a critical leadership skill even in the age of AI.  

Georgie and Lance also discuss bold goals, intelligent risk-taking, intuition and how to create a culture when people believe they are part of something bigger than themselves.  Throughout the conversation, Lance brings his high vibe energy, practicality and wisdom, offering lessons that apply whether you’re leading a global company, a growing team or simply trying to become a better leader yourself.  

This is a masterclass in leadership fundamentals, delivered by someone who has spent a lifetime putting them into practice.

In this episode:

• Why work ethic, manners and awareness are career accelerators
• How to become “above average” and stay there
• The leadership skill AI will never replace
• Creating and communicating a compelling vision
• Why leaders must repeat themselves more than they think
• Building alignment across leadership teams
• The power of wildly important goals and BHAGs
• Calculated risk-taking versus reckless gambling
• Why intuition matters in leadership
• Integrating cultures after acquisitions
• Communicating effectively with boards and shareholders
• How to adjust when outcomes are heading in the wrong direction
• The importance of preparation and discipline
• Lance’s favourite leadership book and why it still matters today

Show Links

Website - https://www.georgiedickins.com

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgiedickins

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@GeorgieDickins-q7x

Transcript

Georgie 0:34

Lance, it is an absolute delight to have you back on Stratospheric Leaders. Um, I think this is your third time you've been on the podcast, and every time I leave I'm like, there's so many more leadership gems I take away. But today what we're doing is we are exploring the book Raise the Bar, uh, which we wrote together last year. And this is a compilation of 250 of your top lessons, but I'm, there's many more than 250. But for me, I really wanted to, um, go beneath the lesson to understand what do these lessons look like in action. Um, so I've chosen nine lessons and um, we're gonna go through those. So where we start is, um, do you know what was interesting when we wrote the book Stratospheric CEOs, I remember saying to you, if you were to, if you were to write a book, what would you call it? And you said, at the time, manners matter and one of the leadership gems you shared, um, in this book, raise the Bar is you said, work ethic, manners and awareness of the world around you are foundational skills. So I'm gonna underscore foundational. They cost nothing and mastering them early in your career, career creates a lasting advantage. So we all understand the word work ethic, but like, let's speak to what does that look like for you?

Lance 1:51

Well, I always say because, um, I, I think work ethic, some people are afraid of that word, but I think a work ethic as above or below average, and I really wanna inspire people to be above average. And to me, if the average in the company you work in is 42 hours a week, then B 43, 44 45, it's not about being 60, 70, 80 Goldman Sachs a hundred, I hear. Um, I think it's really about operating above average. And when I think of work ethic, manners, and awareness as you put them to me, these are real. Um, I don't know. They're not nice to haves. They're kind of non-negotiable. And I, I think for great leadership, uh, these, you know, they're real equalisers. Um, because if you give them to people, anybody can achieve them. It's not about, uh, whether you know, physics, math, or science or whether you have command of three languages. It's, um, it's something that's, you're able to learn, you can achieve and you can be exceptional. And, uh, so to me, if you master this early in your career, um, you get a compounding advantage over time.

Georgie 3:18

I love that. And I, and, and I think so much of work ethic, um, is common sense, not common practise. And as you said, this is available to everyone, doesn't matter who you are, and it can be practised and the early you do it, I love what you said, it's the cumulative impact. If you

Lance 3:33

Yes. And it's, it's, um, you know, for me when I think about it, um, this is how you show up every day. You show up with awareness, you show up with work ethic, you show up with, you know, uh, great manners and that's a portrait of your ambition. And I love that.

Georgie 3:56

Manners. I mean, I, I have in my head what great manners look like, you know, being polite, you know, saying thank you. Um, what, what are, what are great? You know, what are some of the things you associate with great manners?

Lance 4:07

Well, those are all, those are foundational. If I take manners and put 'em to that foundation, I'd put all those there. But, you know, for me, in a business, uh, environment, it's, showing up to meetings on time, being prepared, having read the documents. Um, it's if you are leading a meeting, maybe paused by the door to thank people on their way out, if you have a chance and you see somebody doesn't quite understand something, take time to explain it. Uh, if somebody's lost new to the firm, give 'em a helping hand. It's really simple. Manners to me is just, it should be second nature. And when it's not, you can learn and, and create that.

Georgie 4:52

The being prepared piece, um, made me smile because it reminded me Henry Fernandez, who you and I know well, he talked about you'd never go to a book club meeting and all read the first chapter together. Like the expectation is you've read the chapter, we all show up, and then we, we debrief it. And where you said there about, um, if someone doesn't get it, it's, I suppose that also speaks to me about your quality of presence, um, in the meeting to be able to, to see the fact that someone doesn't get it or to, to, to know what questions to ask people.

Lance 5:22

no, a hundred percent. When I say awareness, it's, it's somebody's ability to be interesting in any setting. And, you know, when you're aware of music and you're aware of the arts and you're aware of sport, and you're aware of drama, and you're aware of politics, economics, war, uh, you know, it's, it's knowing what's going on in the world and showing an interest to develop a relationship and a discussion with somebody around something that they're most interested in. And so I found throughout my business career that, easy leadership skill or, um, relationship building skill is probably a better word, which is an important part of leadership, was that by being aware, I was able to sit next to anybody in a meeting, a dinner table, an event, or walk into an event and find some common ground to begin a dialogue. And that discussion develops your first sense of relationship with somebody. And then from that, you developed the opportunity to do business together.

Georgie 6:40

You were the one who taught me, um, be interested and be interesting. And I remember when we were talking about music, you're like, do you know like, like how the, the, the band nickelback, how they got their name? And you shared, you shared that. And I remember, and, and, and it just really landed for me the importance of finding that common ground. Like be curious, ask questions. 'cause you never know. We, we often meet people as their surface. We don't know the submerged part, their passions, their hobbies, their interests. The more curious we are, the more we can find those connection points.

Lance 7:08

Know exactly.

Georgie 7:10

Um, relationship building you just mentioned, I just wanna pivot there for a second because, you know, we live in a world of AI acceleration, uh, transformation. And I think it's still very much, you know, human and ai, not human or ai. How do you cultivate, you know, what advice would you give people about how to cultivate relationships, um, in an AI world?

Lance 7:32

Well, I'd say the first thing that I think's increasingly important today. Doesn't matter who you are or what age you are, but understand the strengths and weaknesses of the AI agent and the creation of that agent and how it's gonna impact, uh, your particular role or your company or your day-to-day activities. We're already already using AI in everything we do. We use it when we get into an Uber, and the Uber, uh, you know, chooses the route to drive us. Um, we also, um, uh, you know, use AI when we get onto our, uh, music in our car and Spotify's suggesting a song for us to say, or a new playlist. Um, we're using it, um, to help, uh, spell check a letter, uh, help us write a speech. We're using it for so many different things and that, uh, you know, really does, um, you know, um, uh, allow you to learn and develop the strengths of these new technologies. And I found through my whole career, whether it was the mobile phone, email, the cloud, um, any of the, uh, uh, object oriented programming, uh, you know, uh, you know, fast chips, you know, so many things have changed throughout my career. I was always one that just said, I have to understand the capabilities of the technology around me. And, um, so I find it's the same with ai. Make sure you're a user. Make sure you're developing and understand and the strengths and weaknesses of it, and then applying it to the opportunity that you have. And that opportunity can be, uh, very, uh, very broad.

Georgie 9:35

I love that. I understand the capabilities, and again, in one of our conversations, you quoted the CO of Microsoft, Satter and Adela, where you said, you know, be it a know it all, a know, learn it all, not a know it all. You know, be in that constant pursuit of, of, of learning. Um, okay, so one of the lessons, if I go to the second lesson that I love to discuss today, you, you talked about a strong vision, have a strong vision, and regularly communicated. Um, and really because it, this, this helps make people feel part of something bigger. When you think of, I wanna, what the piece I wanna kind of pull the thread on here is regularly communicated. What do you mean by regularly? Like, what is the cadence and what are the vehicles? 'cause there's so many vehicles available to us now.

Lance 10:17

well first off, you're describing around the whole setting of vision, et cetera.

Georgie 10:23

Yeah. So that was, it was, yeah, I think it's had the shared vision.

Lance 10:26

Yeah. Yeah. I'm, um, I, I guess I think what's really important is that, um, if you're a leader, I think the word compelling is really important. Can you create a compelling vision and then repeat it often because it has to become second nature. You know, people have to believe it. It can't be just a fleeting platitude that you put out, and then it's, you know, it's, um, it's there, but it's not reinforced. To me. It's really important that, uh, the, uh, uh, vision, the vision statement and everything around, uh, um, vision needs to be repeated often, and it needs to be, what I would say, I think the most important words I ever used around vision is, do we have a compelling vision? Um, I also think that people perform better when they feel that they're a part of something bigger than they are themselves,

Georgie 11:31

Mm.

Lance 11:32

right? When you create a compelling vision, you're encompassing the people that work for you. And from that, uh, you, uh, you create something that people can really kinda get into. And I, I, I love it when I feel that, um, I'm leading something where people want to be a part of, to make it even better. And, um, so I don't think, um, you know, my own personal ambition is always that, um, you know, when you have a vision, it, it should be stated, but it's, um, you know, it's something that stretches people. It's compelling, it's, uh, giving people, it's giving people this, um, you know, this opportunity to believe alongside you.

Georgie 12:23

I love that. Believe alongside you. And when you say repeat it often, I, I kind of think it's about being the CRO as well, the chief repetition or the chief reinforcement officer. What do you think, how important is it in terms of the medium? Is it, is it through emails, town halls, like in person? How do you, I mean, do you give much in thought to the, the, the vehicle by which you communicate the message?

Lance 12:46

Um, I think use all forms of communication all the time. Um, and so of course, you know, review the year, uh, quarterly updates, uh, your quarterly, your annual budget, and then quarterly review your town halls where you're just, you know, giving people a, a feeling for what's going on in the firm and what's going on in the business around us. How are we doing, um, our employee health checks, our, you know, so many ways to communicate with your employees, your regular reviews, your review process. So, to me, I, I, I, I wanna use all forms of communication all the time, and, uh, I think that's really important.

Georgie 13:35

And how do you know people get it? Like, uh, how do you, how do you know that, that, you know, how does it come back to you in a way that you're like, yeah, people understand the vision we're on.

Lance 13:44

I think you have to, I think surveying is really important. So I, I, I like regular surveying. Um, I used, um, uh, short, um, quarterly kind of pulses where you'd ask three or four questions that you could get 60, 70, 80% of the population would answer them. They were easy. When you answered one question, you didn't have to scroll down. It immediately went to the next question. It was easy to use. It was multiple choice, and you could quickly, within, by the next day of the survey being completed, you could give feedback and be honest. Say, look, we really, I can't believe it. We scored so low on communication and I'm working so hard on it, so clearly I'm doing something wrong. I'm gonna ask you another question. How would you like communication to be improved? Send me an email, send me a text, send me a WhatsApp. Give me some idea of how I can be better as a leader in communicating with you. And, and so, you know, take what you get honestly and use it to be even better. And I, I think that's really important.

Georgie 14:52

Yeah. I, I love that. And I remember in one of our conversations, you saying as well that the shared vision comes back to you through shareholders and stakeholders. You know, you find that the messaging is coming back, so, you know, it is, it is being, yeah. It, um, communicated out as well.

Lance 15:07

I would also say, I know it's working 'cause the performance of the company starts to show it. Or your, the Glassdoor reports on people wanting to work at the company, people wanting to refer the company. All these things are great indicators of your, uh, you know, your success.

Georgie 15:25

And that shared vision, um, I, you know, to, to coin the phrase and whether I like this one or not, it's, you know, it's, it's about a, a leadership team all rowing in the same direction. Um, uh, if, how do you ensure that, that all your leadership team, you know, if they don't agree, but when they leave the room, everyone is brought in, invested in, and, and aligned with the ambition.

Lance 15:48

Well, I think that's a core, you know, strategic, uh, property or values of the firm in terms of, you know, we lead together as one. If we have, you know, you, you've gotta be strong as a leader on alignment and getting people aligned. Like, if you've got five out of nine of your leadership team aligned or split five four, that's, that's gonna be dangerous. 'cause those, you're gonna get mixed messages going back out in your firm. You need to align the leadership team, um, reach agreement and consensus. If you don't have consensus, uh, is non-negotiable. It's, we've made the decision and it's up to you to lead, lead with that as your front step. And if you are negative towards the, your leadership decisions, uh, that's just unacceptable. It's not, it's not, it's not possible. It's not acceptable. It's not, it's not gonna work, uh, for you to be successful.

Georgie 16:51

And, and what you shared there about, you know, we lead together as one, you know, making sure the values, like the, the values underpin the, you know, if there's a certain ambition, making sure that the values underpin the behaviours that you wanna see observed.

Lance 17:04

Yes, a hundred percent.

Georgie 17:06

Okay, so audacious goals. I wanna move over onto the next lesson here. And, um, you know, you always, you've said that you always ask everyone on the team to give you one wildly important goals. The weeks or the bee hags, you know, the big hairy, audacious goals. And, and I love what you said, 'cause you said it's important to dream where you are going. If you're dreaming, you know, you're gonna go up three steps, you're likely to go up three steps, but why not dream? You're gonna go all the way to the top. So I'd love to hear about how you, you know, audacious. How, how do you, how do you embody that?

Lance 17:38

No, I think, asking people for A-B-H-A-G or asking people to, you know, have a, you know, their one wildly important goal, it, it encourages bold thinking. And I, I, I think that's really important. It also, um, I think some alignment of individual purpose with company direction. So I'm, I'm in a company, you ask me for that wildly important goal, and I say, I'd like to achieve X excess quarter. And it's a real stretch, you know, it's aligned to the vision and the person's trying to overreach, extend themselves, take themselves to a new level. And, and I think when you start to do that across an entire firm, you actually, um, you actually start to create a firm that's an overachiever itself because the combination of that behaviour leads you to a really, uh, exciting, successful place. And, uh, I've had great success in, uh, using BH or wigs as, uh, they were, uh, named, uh, in helping me lead and direct people.

Georgie 18:58

Um, I think emotions are contagious as well. There's an emotional contagion piece here and that encouraging bold thinking that's the ripple, not just from the leadership team, but then ripples out and cascades throughout the organisation.

Lance 19:09

Yes. And if you don't believe in, uh, your destination boldly right then, um, you know, you've, uh, you can't expect extraordinary outcomes, right? Like, if you're expecting extraordinary outcomes, then you gotta define yourself boldly, right? Extraordinary doesn't come where it says, you know, we want to grow 7% this year. Expand margin a couple points, uh, get to 10% earnings growth. That's not that bold. Say our, we are expected to grow eight to 10%. we see the market opportunity to accelerate through 10. It's much more exciting. Now, you might not, but it might bring you to the top of your range and you could end up at nine and that wouldn't be the worst outcome.

Georgie 20:02

Yeah, well, excitement to me, even here, it, there's a passion and an enthusiasm behind that. And you used the word extraordinary and it made me think of the All Blacks, the New Zealand rugby team, and they said they're ordinary people doing extraordinary things. You know, they're not in any way different to the English rugby team or the French, but they have this culture and a value set that means they perform at the very, very best levels.

Lance 20:25

Yeah.

Georgie 20:26

And, um, the, the other, my cha my one of my sons recently, I think at school, you know, he was talking about the word impossible and it's like, I'm possible. And I'm like, yeah, nothing's impossible. It just hasn't been, you know, when, when we had the marathon runner, Sebastian, and I'm gonna forget his surname, uh, the London Marathon runner last week, he was one of the first people, well, the first person to do a sub two hour marathon. So, and, and people would've beforehand said like, that's not possible. Not to Sebastian.

Lance 20:55

No. And that's, that's fantastic. 'cause that's, uh, that's somebody dreaming, dreaming to do something that we didn't think was gonna happen. So it's, I, I, I love to see that.

Georgie 21:07

the third lesson I wanna cover is about leadership and risk taking, because you said leadership means taking a gamble, but whilst weighing the odds. So you'd never take casino odds, but I will make bold moves. So, as a former trader, there's, you know, there's, whether you are risk is hardwired in or it's something you've cultivated. How do you do that? How do you take the gamble whilst taking the odds? Like, what does, what does taking risks look like to you?

Lance 21:32

Well, it's always calculated risk first off. So that to me is really important. It's never recklessness. Um, so, you know, you mentioned never casino odds. I believe that, uh, that's not gonna help. Um, and it's that intelligent risk versus gambling. I'm never thinking you should gamble. Uh, but at some point you gotta press yourself and see if you can, you know, take the next, uh, you know, the next opportunity. So you weigh your odds carefully and, um, you're willing to act decisively.

Georgie 22:06

Yeah, I love that. Willing to act decisively, always calculated, never reckless, and I'm assuming it, it's like a muscle. The more you exercise it, then you've got a pattern of like, well, look, I can look back. When I took risks there, it worked, and that's, that can give you the confidence to do it again.

Lance 22:22

It. Yeah, no, exactly. I, I think the courage, uh, um, in leadership can never, never be blind. Um, you know, you have it, it's gotta be informed.

Georgie 22:33

how important is intuition to you?

Lance 22:35

Oh, I think it's, I think it's, um, not available to everybody, but uh, if you have it, use it.

Georgie 22:42

Hmm. And how does your intuition speak to you? Is it like in the shower when you're going out for a walk? Do you have to actively connect with it

Lance 22:49

There all the time, all the time, every second of the day.

Georgie 22:54

Yeah.

Lance 22:54

it's, it's just looking forward, looking for that grandchild to fall, fall into the wa, into the pool, uh, the new puppy to chew the new carpet to. It's just, it's just, you know, it's just gotta be this constant ability to look forward at things around you and then, you know, use that intuition to move, move before others move and gain an advantage.

Georgie 23:23

Because with our intuition, it's not come from nowhere. Like that's it's accumulation of all our experiences and everything to date.

Lance 23:29

Well, yeah, that too. That's your, your learnings definitely help, but then you have to, you have to then use it and, you know, make the call. There's no use. Having the intuition and keeping it all to yourself. Um, you know, and, uh, it's paying attention to things and grabbing that edge when you see it. And it, I think, I think it comes natural to many people, but not all.

Georgie 23:55

And the grabbing the edge, like how do you know when you are onto something? What happens for you physiologically? Like how do you know when, like this is a bold move that I wanna act decisively on.

Lance 24:05

I do get a gut feel on something and I'm not afraid to act on it. And when I do, I, I, I kind of first make sure the math works. The science art always comes second to me. I, the math has to work the science and then the art can follow. And the art is all the softer skills around, around the, um, the strategy. But if the math doesn't work, I won't go there. And you can see that a lot of times the math tells you enough. And if people are showing you, well, this comp, this is gonna grow at a hundred percent this year, 200 next year, 300 the following year. And they show you some hockey stick and they're gonna expand margins threefold and be highly profitable and pay off the debt. And one and a half years, I gonna go, really? Let's work on that math. Let's look at the tam. Let's look at the pricing. Let's look at inflation. Let's look at debt levels, interest rate levels, economies, war people, ai, where's, where's your moat? What's protecting this? So, no, I wanna look at all that.

Georgie 25:19

Great question there. Where is your moat? What is protecting you? Um, okay, so next lesson. Um, and you used Formula One as an analogy, and I love, since Drive to Survive came out, I, I've been a Formula One fan and you said that in Formula One, it's rare for a new driver to be on the podium in, in race one. It's about that succinct, sustained success takes time and requires discipline and consistent investment in capability. Speak more to that.

Lance 25:46

Yeah, I guess when I think about high performance and the race car driver would be a good one to look at that consistency, discipline, and a regular investment in the capability. And that driver, it's fitness, it's training, it's diets, health, it's um, uh, speed, um, it's reflex handling the, you know, the, the GForce like it's training. So, um, when they start to, um, be able to achieve what it takes to get on the podium, they've done that because of practise, qualifying, racing and everything else around that. And, um, so I, I think there's no shortcuts, um, to sustain success. You know, if you wanna have sustained success, no shortcuts, consistency, discipline, and investment, that's what it takes.

Georgie 26:51

And then to go back to, you know, what we discussed in our previous episode about the measurement as well, you know, measuring the things that will, um, and I think it's so important, as you said, like, you know, your strategies, what, you know, what are the things that make your outcome true. And often we measure the, you know, we, we look at the outcome, but what are the inputs that make that outcome, you know, enable you to realise that goal. next one, be involved in the detail. Don't over manage. Don't under manage, but you've gotta know what's going on. How do you manage that tightrope? Well, again, my words tightrope. They may, it may not, may be very easy for you, but so you don't, you know, you're just in at the right level.

Lance 27:27

if you don't stay close to the detail, um, you're not gonna know what's going on. So you need to be close to the detail, especially if there's a problem. Um, but don't suffocate your teams, and I think suffocation is the key word there. Um, you talked about both the extremes. Overmanaging under managing. I think overmanaging kills ownership. So nobody's got ownership. You're, you're overmanaging under manage managing creates drift and you're gonna drift from, uh, from what, what you wanna achieve. So the art is in knowing enough without taking over. You need to know enough. You need to know how to encourage, how to question, how to help, but don't take over. As soon as you take over, it's your problem.

Georgie 28:23

Brad Levy, who's obviously our mutual friend, he speaks about, um, his analogies, the, the sea playing, the surfer, the snorkeler, and the scuba diver. And he is like, you can't be in the coral all the time. If you're scuba diving too much, then you know you're not managing effectively, but you've gotta know which altitude. You know, different situations require a different, a different altitude.

Lance 28:42

Yep. That's, that's good. Uh, good, uh, description as well.

Georgie 28:47

Well, he loves his metaphors. Um, okay. You you at, at market and IHS market, you know, you, you, there was a lot of, you did a lot of acquisitions and you also spoke about organic growth is where the real value lies and the importance of making it a priority again, can you elaborate on that?

Lance 29:04

Well, to tell the truth, if you really go to the core, how I think true value, um, isn't bought. It's built. That's important. And, you know, organic growth is sustainable. It's long term. It's the always the most valuable in terms of your business multiples. And you know, it's reflecting your real strength. It's uh, you know, your product, it's your people, um, your customers and their trust in you. And so for me, being able to build organically is always, uh, the most important aspect of growth. Now, if you are reaching maximum TAM and you need to either develop new products organically or staple on new products that you create in house organically, that's outstanding. But where you're feeling the best way to leverage your strength with your customers is to acquire and have inorganic growth. Fine. It's just, you better then be, develop the muscle set for doing acquisitions and integration and blending cultures, um, you know, more than one company because they don't all come with the same culture,

Georgie 30:27

Mm.

Lance 30:28

right? It just doesn't happen. I always use the analogy of, you know, um, growing up in Canada versus my friends growing up in America, if you were Greek and you came to, uh, Canada, uh, and Canada was playing Greece in basketball, in Toronto, the Greeks could still, especially first and even second generation, even third, could be cheering with Greek flags. In the us. when a, when somebody comes from Greece or Italy or Bulgaria or China or Japan, they come to the us. They wanna be Americans.

Georgie 31:05

Mm.

Lance 31:06

And so they all wave American flags, different culture, different, different, different, uh, um, uh, strategy per se for countries. Canada embraces a melting pot multiculturalism. Everybody gets to be, um, who they are and who they want to be. Um, whereas coming to America, it's about becoming American. And actually, most people that go to America, they want to become American. They're excited about it. Fastest growth, best tech, fastest food, Amazon Prime. Now I can get everything right now in two seconds. Everything's available to me. And it's, it's just, it is just different. It's not better, not worse, just different. And so, um, you know, I, I'm of the view that, um, I really want to embrace where I came from in Canada, which is, was a melting pot of so many different things. And what Canada's done is it lead, it's led people to be able to live together from many different backgrounds in a very positive way and with a lot of respect, inclusivity, uh, you know, built into the formulas.

Georgie 32:27

When you talk about that blending cultures in an organisation, I suppose what I was curious about is how do you make sure that those cultures get blended well, like when you've made an acquisition, and where do you see people where it's not working out? Like what are they doing that that means that that blend just doesn't happen?

Lance 32:46

Well, I go back to what I said. I allow, I allow the different flags to be flown in the company and to be proud of where you came from. I don't try to erase that. Um, it's okay that, uh, you're from a, you know, you're, you, you develop your culture in a company that we've acquired. I don't expect you to rera it. What I care is common values.

Georgie 33:10

Yeah, I love

Lance 33:11

Values is the common layer. The cultures. I can have many cultures, but one set of values that's really important to me.

Georgie 33:22

And, and again, if things were to not go well, that's where there isn't a common set of values. I'm assuming. That's where, I'm not saying IHS, but where you've seen other companies, where they've acquired and things, it, it, it hasn't blended. Do you, do you see that, that the, the

Lance 33:36

Or well, sometimes people might wanna have those common values. They just haven't been, they haven't been led to a common interface like that. And therefore they start to develop, uh, bad behaviours or, you know, you're not communicating well enough, you're not updating enough. People become insecure. People start seeing that you're taking things away. You have to explain everything. Integration is all about early and continued communication and, uh, and being clear on how these two companies are coming together and what the outcome's gonna look like and how, how does that impact you as a, you know, it doesn't matter if you're, you know, in reception or you are chief data scientist, or you are, um, you know, selling a product. How's this impacting you?

Georgie 34:30

Mm.

Lance 34:31

You wanna know?

Georgie 34:32

Yeah, I, I, I think it really speaks to, you know, we, the word communication's come up a lot today, but that early in continued communication to avoid the water cooler conversations or the unhelpful ones. So, you know, there's that transparency is equity, like just, you know, speak to people. Um, so talk about speaking to people. Um, uh, I wanted to pivot to, you know, your shareholders, because your shareholders are some of your most important customers, and you said, so you better be well prepared to go deep when asked the question. So my question there, how do you prepare, you know, how do you know what's important to them and, you know, what does it give you when you come from that level of preparation?

Lance 35:10

Well, I, I think it gives you credibility so you know, the more prepared you are and the more substance you have and your ability to demonstrate your depth of knowledge, that's really important. When you have shareholders that are also customers, 'cause it means they understand your product, your business, and what you're serving up. You know, if you're serving, if you're a chef and you're serving dinner to 25 chefs, that's different than serving dinner to just 25 people or 25 people that like food, right? Um, so I, I think understanding your audience, being prepared, making sure you have depth in your substance, then you're gonna have credibility and shareholders, stakeholders, um, you know, deserve accountability and deserve for you to be accountable, uh, to them and to demonstrate, uh, to them, uh, you know, your performance, your value, your profitability, your growth, your challenges, your problems, you know, you, you need to, uh, and, and honesty is really important. Honesty, humility, all play an important role here.

Georgie 36:33

Yeah. And I, and I suppose the honesty is being realistic with expectations. Like when it was COVID and, you know, the market was, was a little bit of turmoil. Like, be honest, and I remember you said, you know, give pe then you'd give like, you know, some of the investor different scenarios. Um, 'cause you didn't, there was so many data points there were unavailable and, uh, it, it was uncharted territory.

Lance 36:55

Yes, yes.

Georgie 36:57

And you said as well, when we talk about shareholders, I wanna talk about the board. You said, you know, never leave a board outcome to chance. Um, it, how do you do that? Do you have a lot of pres syndication before board meetings? Is it again, does it speak how, how do, how do you do that?

Lance 37:12

I think if the, what you're gonna present is complex, then you should try to find time for individual board members or small groups of board members to bring them along in their understanding of that before you get there. So, you know, if you are, forward and you're gonna show up, uh, with a big acquisition or merger with Toyota, I don't think you'd just pop up at the board with this idea. Right? And if your IHS market and your focused on data and information, you decide that you're gonna become a broker or a asset manager, um, you better have a really good set of reasons and understanding on why you might want to do that. And, uh, so to me, I, I do think that, uh, I wouldn't, I don't just show up.

Georgie 38:11

Yeah. No unexpected surprises then. No. Um, and for the last, um, 'cause we're gonna do 10 lessons today. Um, we've gone through nine. I was gonna ask you to give me a number between one and 250. Uh, so this is gonna be a complete, um, we dunno what's coming, but what number would you choose from your book?

Lance 38:29

Nine.

Georgie 38:31

Nine. Why did you choose Nine? Intuition? Or

Lance 38:33

like the number.

Georgie 38:34

Yeah, I was thinking, is that a favourite number? Okay, so number nine is, oh, we've already done it. Okay, so get, which is about taking it 99. So it's all the nines, right? Here we go. Let's see what 99 brings us. Okay. If you find yourself pushing against a failing outcome, you have to know how to adjust.

Lance 38:55

So, you know, your, your, um, you know, if you find yourself in a situation and you know, uh, you're not gonna be successful in your outcome. You can't, you, you gotta adjust, you gotta make adjustments. You gotta step back and reassess. You have to, um, you know, make a decision to, uh, shelve, shelve the project, make a decision, you know, if it's a pricing problem, to make adjustments, um, if profitable, uh, make a decision to, you know, make additions to the project and slow down the launch. Like not knowing the particular situation. I think the quote is actually a very good one, which is, um, once you determine that you're gonna have your an a, you know, an unsuccessful, um, uh, event about to occur, then make changes. You know, you're, you're hosting, you're hosting a client dinner, and, um, the gas goes off in the kitchen and there's no, uh, there's no gas for cooking, right? What do you do? Like at that point, you just, as people arrive, say, I'm really sorry, everyone has to go home. Or do you make an adjustment? Adjustment? Might be, what are we, what can we serve as a starter Maine? And clearly dessert's, probably. Okay, that doesn't have to be cooked. Uh, is there a, is there a, uh, something nearby that we could bring food in? Could we bring the main course in, serve our starters? And while we're doing that, is a local Japanese, Chinese, Indian restaurant nearby that could bring us in, you know, the main course in size. Like, you know, you've gotta, you've gotta be able to make decisions. And what I hate is, is when the, the problem's happening and everybody's frozen in their tracks. You know, my, my view is, is, okay, we have a problem. Ideas, gimme some ideas. Let's, let's collect the ideas. That's a crazy idea. That's, that one's not happening. That's not bad. That's interesting. We're right. We're, we're right next to a very interesting Thai restaurant that can create a main course that should be suitable for, you know, 90%. They can probably create a vegetarian course. We have 200 people here. Is that possible? That Thai restaurant only serves 15 people a night? Okay. Idea's gone next. And so, you know, you've got these, you gotta be able to, uh, you gotta be able to, uh. Make decisions and decide what you're gonna do. And sometimes it's tough. Sometimes you're gonna not satisfy everybody with the decision you're gonna make. Or worst case scenario, you have to apologise, say sorry, explain what's happened. And then probably apologise again in writing the next day how horrifically embarrassed you are.

Georgie 42:23

Hmm.

Lance 42:23

So I I, I think that, uh, that quote applies to many things in our journeys. And, we have to think on our feet and make those tough decisions.

Georgie 42:35

I was thinking if that happened at a dinner party, I'd just be like, I'm just gonna serve more wine.

Lance 42:40

Yeah, well, thank God at home, if we're having a dinner party, you could order in on Deliveroo and have it there, and probably you could put it on your own plates and people would think you're a master chef. Uh, the, uh, uh, but, um, you know, if it was a big corporate banquet, I guess, uh, that, you know, I imagine, well, hey, as I start thinking about it, I imagine the great leadership in a hotel chain has generators to back up power gas, to back up gas, um, more than one appliance. Like they, they've got all this redundancy built in, they can't afford for that to happen. So it was probably a bad example, but I think

Georgie 43:23

No,

Lance 43:23

got the point. We got the point.

Georgie 43:26

And it, it makes me think of Sir Clive Woodward, um, and he was the, was the coach for the World Cup 22, 2003 English rugby team. And he talks about teacup thinking calmly under pressure. Like, you know how, because again, when those moments happen, how do we as a team think calmly under pressure? And, and, and, and I know what you said, you know, move into Solutionizing.

Lance 43:46

and when you add all that up, you know, everything we've said, I kind of think of you're setting a, you're setting a bold direction. You're always building strong, you know, strong foundations. Um, use discipline when you're executing, you know, execute with the discipline. Um, stay close and empower, but don't, don't smother. And probably finally just prepare relentlessly and make sure you're always prepared.

Georgie 44:14

Love, love, love this. And very last thing, one book that you, it stood the test of time for you leadership book. If people, because again, people wanna be like, what does he consume? You know, we talk about learning agility.

Lance 44:25

Um, actually my favourite that I went back to the other day, um, was Dale Carnegie, the public Speaking Lessons. And, um, actually I think that was one of the, the best courses I ever put for a sales team was to take the Dale Carnegie Public Speaking course. And, um, yeah, it just, it, it, it, it's very, a very helpful course that you could do yourself, or it's better to do it with other people because you have to put your heart out on your sleeve. And I, I think that the, um, the skillset that you can improve on with that course is quite substantive. And I did use it back in the late eighties with sales teams, uh, quite extensively. And, uh, you know, the awarding of the Dale Carnegie Pen, people still, you know, they hold that with closeness to their hearts. And, um, the fact that your people are listening to you telling an emotional story

Georgie 45:34

Yeah.

Lance 45:36

with a group of people that you don't always know, it's quite power. Quite powerful. Great, great learning. So that's, uh, if you haven't done that course, um, choose five or six friends and do it together.

Georgie 45:50

I love that. Well, look, thank you so much. Uh, I've made so many notes as always. Um, it's always just such an enjoyable experience having you on having these conversations, so I appreciate you and thank you so much.

Lance 46:03

Pleasure to be here. Thanks, Georgie.

Georgie 46:05

Thanks, Lance.