The Mental Health of Christian Men w/Robert Moore III

Christian men's mental health is rarely talked about in the church — but it should be. In Episode 10 of the Disciple's Desk Podcast, Pastor Randy Brown sits down with special guest Rob Moore III for an honest conversation about faith and mental health, the pressure to "have it all together," and what Scripture really says about anxiety, depression, and the emotional life of a godly man.

Whether you're walking through a hard season yourself or you love someone who is, this episode is a reminder that strength and struggle can live in the same man — and that God meets us in both.

In this episode:
• Why the church often stays silent on men's mental health
• The lie that "real" Christian men don't struggle
• Practical, biblical steps for caring for your mind and spirit
• How community and accountability protect us

🎙️ Special Guest: Rob Moore III

📖 "Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." — 1 Peter 5:7

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I think a lot of strong men are actually just tired. I've been noticing something. A lot of the strongest men I know are carrying the heaviest weight in silence. Not because they're weak, but because somewhere along the way we learn that being strong meant not needing anyone. I've got it. I've said that more times than I can count. And if I'm honest, most of the time it wasn't confidence, it was fear. Fear that if I let someone see what was really going on inside me, they might see something broken. But here's what I'm learning. A lot of our struggles aren't born in the moments we fall apart. They were formed long before that. Shame has a long memory. Before addiction, before anger, before emotional shutdowns, before overworking or before control, there was usually a boy who felt like something was wrong with him. And when you carry that long enough, you find ways to escape it. You numb it, you outperform it, you outwork it, you spiritualize it, you hide it. But the relief never lasts because you can't outrun a wound that hasn't been seen. I thank God for the brothers who let me stop pretending. For the rooms where I didn't have to be the strongest one, where I could just say, I'm not okay. And nobody tried to fix me, nobody shamed me, nobody minimized it, just presence. And honestly, that kind of safety changes a man. I think we'd have a lot stronger men if we stopped making men feel weak for struggling. Strength isn't silence. Strength is telling the truth. And the truth is we were never meant to carry it all. I've had to learn that my identity isn't built on being needed, being useful, or having it all together. It's received from a father who knows every insecure corner of me and stays. Not because I performed well, not because I led well, not because I held it together, but because I'm his. I'm still learning what it looks like to lead from that place, to love from that place, to be a husband and a dad and a brother who creates safety instead of pressure. And if you've been carrying something quietly, if you've been telling yourself, I've got it, but you're exhausted, you don't have to carry it alone. Not in this community, not around me. We don't need more perfect men. We need honest ones. And maybe the strongest thing you'll do this week is let someone see the real you. The you that's still learning, still healing, still coming home to who you were created to be.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

All glory to God for this opportunity to speak to this amazing brother that you just heard there in the intro. Uh, gotta say uh just a few words about my brother uh Robert Moore, the third follower of Jesus, husband, father, podcast, host, and storyteller, passionate about creating safe spaces for honest conversations around faith, mental health, marriage, healing, and breaking cycles uh through his platforms like God's Glory and Men's Real Stories and uh the one that he has with his beautiful wife. We don't have the answers. Rob shares uh vulnerable conversations that point people back to hope, to growth, and the love of Christ. Please welcome my brother to the desk. Brother Rob, how you doing, man?

SPEAKER_00 4:54

What's going on, man? That feels really weird on this side, man. I've never had anybody introduce me. That's kind of oh man.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

I hope I did well.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Nah, that was good. That was good. That was good. I'm sitting over here like tempted to like hit a like a like a like a bomb drop or something, an air horn on my side over here. I'm like, man, that was good, man. Like he yeah, he did that. That was really good.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Yes, uh, that's what's up, uh, that's what's up, man. Of course, it's an honor to have you, man. Appreciate you giving us your yes to uh be at the desk. And so, man, uh it's uh we really wanted just to go ahead and jump right in um and get started here.

SPEAKER_09 5:31

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

But uh before we do, man, I just want to give you the opportunity for whatever you might have on your heart to say, real quick, to just uh bless us and bring us in. Uh anybody shout out, anybody uh anything you want to say? And definitely, man, uh just go ahead and uh share some info about your uh your platforms there.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so so if you're gonna give me the mic to like to like give shout outs and all that stuff to start the episode, then we're gonna start this episode in prayer, Dan, because I think there's no greater shout out in in my life. Like when I think about like who gets the biggest shout out for like even the platforms that we've been given to Stuart. Um, there's no greater shout out than I because I I know I can say I I wouldn't be here doing this, sitting across from you, uh at the disciples' dance with my disciples' hat on, if it weren't for like what he's done to like just bring me to this place where um we can actually have these conversations and I can actually like bring something to it that I didn't know what four years, five years ago. So um, so yeah, man, like if you're cool with that, man, I'd love to I I'd love to start it in prayer, man.

SPEAKER_09 6:41

Come on, man. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

All right, all right. Well, dear Heavenly Father, Lord, we just thank you, Lord. We thank you for this time tonight, Lord. You get the greatest shout-out right now, Lord, because it's it's in you, it's through you that we're able to do these things, Lord. We're able to have these conversations and just be able to just give you all the glory for it. So, Lord, we just do that now, Lord. We allow this time to be a time of worship, Lord. We allow our voices and what we do next to be a thing where we worship you through our through our through our words, through our conversation, through the through the things, the perspectives and the different things we just we just unpack tonight, Lord. Allow your voice to be louder than their voice. Um, I pray that you just take over as you normally do and fill this room, Lord. And we give you all the praise and glory for it in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

All right. So, everything else is everything else is just everything. I mean, like, as you said, I appreciate you um um um inviting me here today, man. I am honored. I I I I don't get to sit on the other side of the desk like this often. So it's really cool to have conversations where I'm sitting here like, well, wait a minute. Like, God, I'm listening for you to like say what's next, but now I'm just kind of like waiting for God to like work in the midst of both of us. So um so yeah, man, I mean, as you said, man, I I am passionate about um I'm passionate about going after um the one as Christ has has come after after me and and so many others, and um using my voice uh to be a a sound, whether you want to call it in the wilderness, a sound in in the marketplace, a sound at at wherever at the desk, you know, like um I take it truly as a as a um an honor to be able to do what God's called us to do, to um to uplift him and to I would say um turn the light on, uh shed a light in areas where conversations, certain things we talk about are, as somebody said recently, they were like, that's the stuff we don't talk about. That's that's the that's the that's the the unpopular conversation. That's the stuff that men normally, we just kind of like, we stay away from that and we just avoid those type of conversations because of where it may lead us, what it may lead us to. And what I've learned is that where it leads you is it leads you home to yourself. It leads you home to the person that God created you to be. It leads you home to who God's been calling you out all this time and saying, Yeah, there's more to you than what you see, there's more to you than what you've experienced, there's more to you than what you've been through that has shaped the way you move through life and the patterns you have now and the things you've been through that you've just kind of just been like, it just is what it is. And we just slap that label on there and just move on. But um I'm passionate about that just because of how God just found me in that mess, man, and and pulled me out and um and put me on this road to say, all right, I want you to be a voice now. So um, so yeah, man, I'm honored.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Absolutely, man. We're definitely honored to have you. So just to start off and uh just dive right into this, man, because uh this is uh it's a major uh topic and major issue, um, especially amongst us uh Christian men. Um and it's our mental health. And sometimes, like the uh like the clip said, man, you feel like uh just a lot of a lot of strong men are just tired. You know, we we're worn out, we got we got a lot of burnout, you know what I mean? We got and um it can come from all phases because we are um we're hit from so many different sides and so many different angles um by the world. And um I know that it's an honor to be the head, but being the head is typically the kill shot. And the devil always and the enemy always wants to try to get the kill shot. So what do you think? Like honestly, when it when it comes to these types of conversations, the most, especially amongst us men, like what is the main thing that's keeping us back or holding us back from just going ahead and releasing and just saying, hey man, yo, I'm tired. I ain't got it right now. I'm not and I don't have it all together right now. I'm struggling right now.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yeah. Um, I mean, right off, just to be, I mean, we I would start with saying it's it's a lack of seeing other men do it. It's a lack of like ever seeing men say, I'm tired. And and if they did, it was like, what you tired for? You ain't done nothing. You ain't you ain't earned a nap yet. You ain't earned sleep. You can sleep when you did. All these lines that I grew up with um um that that pushed me back into like, oh, well then, all right, well then maybe I'll earn a nap one day. Maybe I'll I'll I'll earn the opportunity to be able to stop. Maybe that comes at 65 when I retire or when I die, I'll sleep then. And so um for a lot of us, we just because we don't feel like we're worthy of it, because we don't see anybody else talking about it and saying, bro, you got permission to do that, we we just tend to say, all right, well, cool. I'm I'm I'm gonna push through. I'm gonna I'm gonna tie up my bootstraps, tie, you know, I don't know how they say it, tie, grab, grab my bootstraps, tie them up, and just keep moving and like like and figure it out on the back end. And and that that just adds to the weariness, to, to, to the to the tiredness, to the boss, I ain't got it in me, but I can't tell you because you just keep pushing and ain't nobody else said nothing, so I won't say nothing.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Right. Right. I think a lot of I think a lot of it comes from, you know, you hit on it real quick just there. It's like, yo, what you tired from, you know, or the old cliches like, yo, you get rest when you're dead, um, which is absolutely the wrong type of rest that you, you know what I mean, um, that you want to be waiting on, you know what I mean? So it's like, yo, a lot of these things, and it seems like um the way we came up as men and growing up as men, it was just like, yo, we were shamed for expression, right? Unless we was, you know, taking um doing something aggressive, like, you know, we we we were we were applauded for fighting in the streets. You know what I mean? We were applauded for when we, you know, uh knocked the slot out of somebody on the football field, or we, you know, we dumped on somebody, or you know, we excelled at sports or you know, something like that. And then it was almost like, yo, we were applauded for whenever we lost it, as we as or as we say nowadays, when we crashed out. You know what I mean? That was looked at as though that got more respect than somebody breaking down or like, yo, I I'm I'm feeling tired, but or you know, I'm hurting right now, my heart is broken. Oh, don't dog, please don't get a broken heart. Please don't get a broken heart.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

You better get that thing, mask that thing, cover it up, man, and put it back up underneath your sleeve, bro, for sure, man. Because like like the crazy thing about it is I think about back to like, you know, growing up in a Christian home. What what what's your heart broken for? You're not supposed to be with anybody anyway. Like, like, like, like there were all these rules. Like, what you, what you, how how you even get your heart broken? Like, you're not supposed to be dating anyway. You not there was just there were so many different things of like, there were so many things that kind of just boxed us into this space where it was like, all right, man, hide your tears. Bro, the only place to say for your tears is in the shower. The only place to say for your tears is in a pillow. The only place to safe for your tears is in the car. You better, you got three places. If you want to, if you want to express tears, if you got to get it out, it better be one of them places, but nobody else better see you. Um, nobody else better have to ask you what's wrong, because if they ask you, you know what the answer is. I'm good. I'm fine. I'm straight. Like, yeah, no, it's all good. It's all good. And and and and truth was is that even down to like, you know, if you if you're if you had if your mother was asking questions like, okay, I can tell something's not right, you know, the answer normally in some cases, not all cases, was a lot of times we're like, look, we'll just pray about it. We'll we'll we'll we'll we'll pray it away, you know, we'll we'll we'll pray that everything works out. And I'm I'm big on prayer, man. I'm I I I fully believe that it's a conversation that you can truly have, where it's you one-on-one with God to where he can hear exactly where you're going through. But but but that that the extent is almost like the story where, you know, the guy who was like, God, you know, hey, send help. I'm in the I'm out here in the ocean, like, send help. My ship went under, and God sends help. But the truth of the matter, it wasn't the help that that the church probably would have approved. Oh no, it's a boat. No, I need God's hand. Oh no, it's a helicopter. No, my church wouldn't approve that, or my community wouldn't approve that. So I'm waiting on God. And God's like, bro, I I sent a helicopter, I sent boat, I sent, I sent therapy, I sent counseling, I sent like I sent these actual opportunities for you to go and actually talk about it and it's safe in there to cry. Like, ain't nobody gonna be like, hey man, come on now, man up now, man up. Like, come on now, get it together now. Like we you don't gotta cry in here. Like, no, that's that's that's that's where a lot of us find and and feel safe to cry. But um, if you don't go, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you wait on God to to to show up and and do it for you, is the yeah, I mean, I put it this way. I think go ahead, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

I don't mean to interrupt. No, no, no. I think coming up, um, one of the disservices I think honestly uh coming up in the church is that we painted uh the church painted a picture of what God's help should look like. And so when it doesn't, when his help, like you said, doesn't look like the picture that the church painted, then it's like, no, it's of the devil.

SPEAKER_08 16:39

Yeah, you stepped out in the world.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

It's yeah, yeah, yeah. You you looking for the world. You looking to the world for help, and you know, and God, and God is like, yo, God runs it all. And you never know what vessel he's using to assist you in that particular situation or that particular time. You never know what type of boat he sent your way or what type of helicopter. There's another uh, uh there was another story that was similar to that, man. Um, where it was like they it was the story of a of a guy that fell down in the ditch, right? Fell out of the hole or something. And you know, it was like, yo, uh, he was down there shell for help and what it was like I can't help you through some money and on that. I'm like, I can't, I can't use that. Yeah, and then another one came and threw like some rope down and was like, but walked away, like, yo, I can't help you. And then somebody else came along and jumped out in a ditch with him.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

And he was like, What you do that for? Now we both down here. And he's like, because I've been in this ditch before and I know how to get out. And so I want to walk with you and to get you out of here, you know what I'm saying? So you don't feel alone, and I'm gonna show you how, show you the way. Yeah, but we look for a crash in the sky, or the the heavens to open, or uh to hear his voice in the in the storm, or it's just like we have been conditioned to like look for God in these certain types of theatrics that when we don't get it, you know, we we don't see it. We don't, you know, we don't move on it.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Right, right. For sure. And let me add some a little bit of context because the truth is is that the the the churches, the church I go to now, and a lot of the churches nowadays, current day, they have done a lot better job at addressing things aside from um our parents' church or grandparents' church. Um and and and not to say it surprises me, I think that's an that's awesome. So, so so we've definitely come a long way. But it's no different than sometimes looking back at my grandparents, sitting with my grandparents current day and saying, hey, look, what happened? Like, what happened back then? And oh, you know, that's a story between me and God. I don't, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, I'll keep that between me and him, you know. I don't ever need to talk about it. And it is a conditioning that that that probably they they will probably leave here in that conditioning. No, no different than honestly, as I'm sitting here thinking, no different than how God realized like the Israelites. He was like, man, y'all got an 11-day trip. Y'all can make this like like like if y'all really pick it up, man. It was 11 or 12 days. What was it? To to to the promised land. Yeah. And it's like it's like 11 or 12. Right. But you had those people that were stuck, stuck in a mentality, stuck in in old ways, stuck in fear, stuck in different things that God said, Well, Dane, okay, well, like, if y'all don't want to take it, then cool, we just gonna circle this place until you guys die out. And the truth is there's a lot of things that we hold on to. And a lot of areas of our life is keeping us from where God is trying to take us because we we don't want to move forward. We want to hold on to what we've always believed. We we don't we don't want to open the door to the fact that there could be more. There could, and it and it's not a sin, or it's not you going out into the world to experience something, because the truth is that if God made everybody in his image and he gave everybody a gift, even the gift that I have where I can sit down with brothers across from this table, I'm not a therapist, I'm not a counselor, but I see how God uses the opportunities for people to just be vulnerable, even if it's just one moment. And and sometimes that's a start for some people. Like, like create the space and let God do the rest. Like just, I don't know. I I so I so I say that to say that like I don't want to harp on like the church nowadays because I realize how they are they are actually looking and addressing the mental health crisis amongst you know, teens, you know, young adults and and and even older people. But but there is still this this this divide of like if I were to tell my grandmother that this is how I'm addressing my mental health, she might shy away and be like, well, you know, I don't know if that's from God, but like if it's helping you, you know, well just pray about it too. And I know she loves me, and there's this disconnect from her realizing that that how God uses different people and and and and and and the same way he used the doctor to to be able to help you through your doctor's appointments is the same way he's using a therapist or using a counselor or just using the guy next door who's just like, Man, how you doing? Like, how you really doing? Like s like like like you don't gotta answer that fast right now. You don't I got time. But how you really doing though? Like, how's life been treating you, man? I've been watching you come and go, man, and I'm just checking in on you.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Yeah, that was facts. And I know some of the some of My biggest uh I want to say my biggest mental breakthroughs have been in conversations with other brothers where I was just saying, you know, let me um let me pull on you real quick and just you know what I'm saying, and just uh just hear me like real quick, like you know, uh and I always be like, yo, you know, because and typically that conversation, I I gotta have a big uh well, I used to really have to have like a strong, strong sense of trust. Like we'd have been through some things, yeah, before I had that conversation, or even before I even broke down to actually have that conversation that first time.

SPEAKER_09 22:46

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

And I remember like bringing that to him, right? The brother was I was speaking to him and he was listening to me, he was hearing me, and then he shared something. And then it was like before you knew it, man, we was like, yo, we've been walking a road, like we've been walking a path together, but it was almost like there was like a hedge, and I didn't know somebody was walking with me. Yeah, I didn't know that there was somebody.

SPEAKER_08 23:18

You know you were saying on the other side, yeah, yeah. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

So it was it was so crazy. And I'm just like, yo, man, we need this, you know, and um, and it's like, but do you think like, like I know you mentioned like, you know, um uh the elders, you know what I'm saying? Um, back in the day, and it's just like yo, so many things, like if we not talking directly, or we are saying that we're talking to somebody else but God, that we are basically being disobedient. Or do you think that like was it just like everything that was outside of God was, or they viewed it outside of God, and it was viewed as disobedience, and we were shame or shame for it? Or do you feel like it was just like, yo, they just didn't understand, like, you know, how therapeutic and how um and how God can talk through others to speak directly to you? Do you think it was just more so just like, yo, it just it just was like that that that time at that, you know, that time when we was coming up?

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yeah. Um so the same way me and you sit here and talk, I'm gonna answer this question by saying the same way me and you were sitting here and talking, God always called us in the community. He always called us to sit or sit with our brother, and and whether it be sharpening each other's sword, iron sharpening iron, or us being able to carry each other's burdens, helping my brother up when he feels down, when he needs to talk. God's always called us into that. And and with some people, he's given a gift, he's given um uh a deep posture to want to go to school to actually do that for people. And so when I hear that, sometimes I think like, man, like imagine holding on to this. It's basically saying that like I need community to smile and act like everything's okay, K with. And then when I get on my own, I can break down then and I can carry this alone and I can keep this to myself. And it's like you miss all that Bible to hold on to your stuff and keep it covered up and keep a mask on and keep keep trudging. So you do that. And so it's I I really believe what it is is that there was just a lack of um, and you know, I don't know, I I can't sit here and begin to, I don't want to blame anybody or say anybody was wrong, but I think there was also this deep desire of like, uh, there were a lot of preachers that felt like, okay, well, if you need somebody to talk to, you can come to me. Like you can share. I mean, like, think about it in in in um the Catholic community. Uh, they go to the confessional and they share things in there. Um, um, same with same with you know, the Christian faith. You go to your pastor and you share things with him. Um I believe that that wasn't just designed for just my pastor. Because for some of us, we don't have that equity built, that relationship built with our pastor. But I got that relationship and that equity built with you. Like, so we know each other well enough. So why is it that I know you well enough? I know I you you gave me a house key or something ever happens. You told me that I could be your children's godfather, but yet everything else is off the table. Like everything good? No, everything good, bro. You know, nothing else we look at here, bro. It's all good. Like, like, like, how can you give me the rights to so much of your life, but not allow, not feel comfortable sharing what's going on behind the mask of what's really going on with you, like what you're really feeling, like how you're really carrying it. Even if you're carrying it good right now, like, oh, I'm able to manage, bro. Well, right now, like right now, you're managing it. So I I I would answer your question to say that, like, I believe that we've missed for so many years when we have walked around and and and carried on. We carry on all these traditions. You know, grandma, she made the best mac and cheese, she made the best candy yams, you know what I'm saying? We carry on them traditions, but we carried on a lot of traditions that we probably should have just been like, hey, this is nice and all, this is cool, I love this for you, but like I I'm gonna leave this here though. Like, like, like I'll I'm gonna leave this here. I don't want that tradition. I don't want to carry that anymore. I don't want to live like that anymore. Um, and that's not to say you're wrong or to to downplay how you did it, but it's just there comes a point where I realize that I I I've got to do something different.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

What I think of when when we say let's let's just let's just try we're transitioning to today, right? We are we are now the patriarchs, so we are we have our own households. We have our you know, we uh probably have uh roles in of leadership in church. Um you know, maybe we're doing some things in the community. Um you know, we have a uh we have a net, we know that there's a calling to help, right? We know there's a push, there's a drive for us to help. A lot of times with that drive, if I could, you know, being transparent with just knowing that I have that that that drive and that heart to help, a lot of times I take on a lot emotionally, right? I take on a lot uh because I am not a uh just pray and forget about it type of person. Like, you know, I'm just like, yo, you going through this, yeah, I could pray for you, but yo, let's how are we going to how am I going to help you walk through this thing? You know what I mean? I don't want to just be like, hey man, I'm a yo, let me say a word of prayer and yo, just let me know when everything is good. You know what I mean? You know, and it's just like a lot, and what I'm noticing with those types of uh situations is I it can go one of two ways, right? Either the brother or the sister means well, you know, they do mean well, they just don't know how to handle that type of situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like just because you just because you see somebody drowning, it don't mean that you're a lifeguard. For sure. So it's like, okay, so they don't want to get out of that water.

SPEAKER_09 29:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

That's like, yo, that ain't the place for me. Let me, but at least yell until like, hey, I see somebody drowning. Don't just, you know, recognize it, right? But then there's the um.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

But can I speak on that real quick? Can I speak on that person real quick? Um, you told the story earlier about the brother, the guy who fell in the hole, and like everybody was trying to like, you know, you know, here I can pay your way out of there. Here, I got a rope, but I can't stay around to pull you up. Um, the person who jumped in the hole, I think there should have been more story. I think they should have told the story of what that brother did the second he jumped in the hole. Because when he jumped in the hole in the beginning, he just sat there. He didn't have any words to say, he didn't have any encouragement, he ain't had no motivational speech. He said, you know what? The truth of the matter is I'm sure people walk past here and try to encourage you and motivate you up out of here. Um, let's just sit in the fact that, like, you've been in here for a while, and right now you just need somebody to sit with you for a second. You don't need any special words, you don't need any prayer, you don't need any scripture, you just need presence right now. So, bro, I'm gonna sit here with you until you're ready for the next move. And I think sometimes that's the greatest thing a person can ever offer another person. They ain't got to have these doctoral words and all this uh psychites, the uh the psychological language and all the stuff that that counselors and therapists may say. Sometimes it's just like, I'm not gonna leave, man. I'm just gonna hang out. I'm gonna stay here, man. I'm gonna sit up here. We can watch movies, we ain't got to talk about nothing. We can just sit here in silence for a second because the truth is you've been in this hole a lot longer than people know. And right now, the first step is like you've missed presence. You've missed somebody being here with you. You've missed somebody filling a physical body. And so I think that was just the first step of what that person offered that person in that hole. I think eventually, yeah, he knew the way out, but he wasn't like any person, you know, you can tell a person, oh, well, this is what you gotta do to get out, and this is what you got to drop, and this is who you gotta be. And this, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a lot right now, bro. Like, let's, let's, I look, it was a process for me to get out of here. So before we begin to just like hop up out of here, know that it's gonna be a process to get out of here, man. And so I jumped in here, not because, yes, because I know how I got out, but because how you may get out and what you may have to go through and what it all may take is gonna be completely different. But at least you got somebody who knows what it took to get out of here to continue to just be here. Just be here. I don't I may not have all the right words. You don't got to have all the right words. Cool. Just be there. Just be there. Hey, man, look, I just called you, man, just to let you know you're not alone. At any point, man, I know you probably don't got a lot to say right now. I know you probably don't got a lot of words right now, but I don't want you to feel like you're alone. So at any point, if you want to call and just talk about nothing, if you want to call and describe what's going on outside to me on the phone, just so you can know somebody's there. I'm here. I got the time. That let's start with that. Because that is that is underrated for so many people. They miss that, man. They're like trying to figure out how they can help people and and and they missed it. It's it's not really hard, bro. Sometimes you just you just gotta be available and have the time to sit with a person and just say, hey man, like look, don't don't feel the need to like have to say something or like or look for me to like try to pat you up and fix you, man. I I'm just gonna I'm just gonna hang out with you for a little bit, man. We ain't gotta talk about nothing.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

So do you think that one of the signals, like when we're going in and then I go uh into the second person example? But do you think like sometimes when people are dis in in distress, right? And we can still we can still use the um the uh the example of the person drowning. You might know how to swim very well. You might you might be an excellent swimmer by yourself, but you try to pull somebody, now all of a sudden neither one of y'all any good. You know what I mean? And so I think sometimes we will uh just and like I said, we're not blaming nobody, we're not shaming, but we want to bring awareness to the fact that like sometimes you can jump out into the water, and even though you're good at that, you're good at swimming, but you've been swimming alone for so long. And so therefore, you don't really know how to coach somebody out of that situation because you've been so used to doing it by yourself. And therefore, it's like we can make the mistake of when we're going because our heart is pure, right? We got good intentions, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we'll bombard somebody that's going through something. All right, look, this is what we're gonna do to get you out of it, all right? So, what we're gonna do is we're gonna wake up at 6 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

tomorrow morning, we're gonna pray, we're gonna fast, and then we're gonna get all in and then we're gonna go to the gym and we're gonna take some protein and we're gonna start working on the peps. And when your peps are right, you forget about all the other stuff that's going on, brother. And then once we get our thigh muscles right, you'll forget about how she broke your heart.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

I'm done. Exactly. I'm done. The muscles are that the muscle that's hurt is the heart, but it's like, yo, man, we gotta deal with it in a different phase sometimes, right? So I think that that's what that's one of the stigmas. It's like, well, you know, that some people will not cry out for help because it's like what you just said, it's like, yo, the type of help I need, I don't need nobody to come in with bandages and you know fix me. Yeah, with with the back in the day, uh love the cure cone or whatever, and putting it on the wood or whatever. I just I just need somebody here. Like I just I would just love to be able to really talk about anything but this right now, knowing I still gotta deal with it, right? Yeah, and both of us can know we still gotta deal with it, but yo, can we create that type of safe space where maybe I could just get it out just a little bit at a time? Or or what do you think? Like, do we just sometimes feel like, yo, can we end up pacifying the same type of stigma with, you know, not addressing it by, you know, not by coming in too soft? Or is that really uh, or we or could we really be doing um a disservice by coming on too strong and trying to, you know, make them see, you know, make them see the light already. Like, yo, hey, it's right there, you you right there. I got it for you, I got the plan for you, I got the secret sauce for your whole mental capacity. You'll never, you'll never be depressed again. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Hey, man, yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I don't I'm sure you've probably seen it before. You seen the nail in the nail in the head video? The video where where a woman sits on the couch and she's you can't see it at first, but she's like, Man, I've been having these crazy headaches. Like every time I put on a sweater, it's snagged. Every time that I am just thinking about things, I just have this unbelievable headache. And then the camera flips around to her face, and there's a big nail coming out of her face, out of her head up here, and her husband's sitting in front of her, and he's like, I'm pretty sure that if I took that nail out your head, that it would probably fix all your issues. The snack, sweaters, the headaches. Like, like if I could just, and she's like, yo, stop trying to fix me all the time. Like, all you want to do is fix me. There is something in the programming of human beings that gets a high. It's almost like we get, we get, we get, we get a high when we can fix others, when we can offer advice that can get somebody over the heel, get them out of the water, get them out of the hole. It's like it's it's a programming of humans. Um I even went to a thing recently that a friend put on, and uh it they brought a lot of people together in the community you might have gone to, we won't say any names. And it was it was a community thing where we were just talking through different questions and stuff like that. And the first thing I noticed, and the person who put it on noticed it too, is that when it got to me, I was very vulnerable and I was honest about and opened up about a lot of things. And immediately the table just went into like fix it mode of like, brother, we just want to help you. Like, let me help you. Like, like, hold on. So, like, what we're gonna do is we're gonna build something, and then like, hold on, we're gonna get you up out of there, and bro, it's gonna be okay. And it was funny because I sat there and I I I've I've done this before, so it didn't bother me. But I realized that, like, yes, our initial reaction is to try to fix, help, say people instead of just hear them and not even offer anything. Like, bro, it's okay to just like give me the space to talk. And then when I stop talking, it's not awkward to just like sit here. Like, just sit here. Like, we could just sit here and let that, let that breathe for a second. Like, just let what I said breathe. Let that, let me, because the truth is is that in that, it's no different than us praying and being like, okay, so like God, I really need you to show up. And I'm like, I want you to show up this way, and I want you to do this for me, and I want you to do this for my family and all that. So in Jesus' name, amen. All right, I'm out of here now. And then you miss, like, God's like, wait, wait, I wait, I I had I I but like we're too busy, like either running or somebody's immediately interjecting and being like, well, you know, I mean, honestly, if you prayed this way or if you ask God this way, then maybe you would, and it's like, yo, shut up and let God talk for a second. Like, like he might actually have something way better than what you want to say. Like, I want to look, I want to look in this camera. Hey, listen, shut up. Shut up. Let that brother talk. You don't gotta say nothing. You don't got to say nothing. Shut your mouth and let God and your presence comfort that man without your words. They don't, I I I know that seems cruel, but man, I'm just being honest, man. Like, it is so important to sometimes just let brothers sit in the silence of something they may have never said out loud to anybody. Can you imagine that? That that brother might have been the first time he ever said that. That that that sister may have been the first time she ever said that. And yet you want to, you just want to jump into like, well, doctor it up. Let me let me fix you. Like, no, just like like sit back. Like, like be still. Like, peace, be still for a second. Just be still and know that he is God. We can't sit here and be like, well, God's got us, and God, and I believe that. And I agree with that. And then just we always want to play God and like, well, let me show you how I can help you. And they're like, you missed it, man. Like you missed it. Like, just so yeah, man. I've been holding that in for a long time. I don't know how long I've been holding that in. I appreciate you letting me get that out, Randy. I needed to just say that. Shut up. Like, I needed to just say that. Shut up.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Shut up. Just shut up. Just stop. Stop.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

And and you know you experience it too, bro. Like, like at least once a month on a maybe a Tuesday, maybe I'm just throwing it out there. That like you watch people like talk and then somebody be like, but look, if you were to actually go home and like get some tussam and some hot sauce and mix them together with like a little uh nightwheel pip, man, that'd have fixed that right up. Like shut up.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

And the crit and the the thing about that is is sometimes you y'all, I'm saying y'all, folks will bombard you with your uh with uh their their recipe to fix you, and their recipe is so outlandish that you that it makes the person be like, I wish I never opened my mouth. Like dude is crazy right now.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

I remember man, listen, I remember sitting at a at a at a uh at a similar event that like like what you were sitting at, right? And I was sitting next to this brother, man, and I said, I only I don't even remember what I released, but man, what I tell you, like bro was on 25, bro. He was like, Oh, you know what? I'm just like I we wait, how hey, hold on one second. We just we we we just wanted to just I'm just saying some stuff. I'm not even saying that I'm struggling with it. Right, and the craziest thing about it is you were not listening because I said I used to struggle with this thing. The key word was used to. I was but so mine's was a praise report, not a right, right, right, right, right, right. Not not a cry for help. Yeah, but all you heard was, hey, I got an answer for that. Yep, yeah, and you just went into this this crazy jacked up, you know, let's do a thousand push-ups and let's just take over the world type attitude, and let's just say, brother, I was sharing because I'm sharing that guy, like how faithful God really is.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

And how a, you know, and what he brought before. But so many times we don't enter into those spaces with a listening ear. Wait, wait, enter, yeah, we just waiting, like, yo, I got some solutions. I'm gonna help somebody.

SPEAKER_09 43:51

I came here to help somebody tonight. I came here to help.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

So now, my question for you, Brother Robert Roy III.

SPEAKER_09 43:59

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

It's a lot of all these times and these things, um more so I'm trying not to shame folks or not not trying to persecute anybody.

SPEAKER_08 44:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

But do you feel like a lot of those times is more driven by ego and self than earnest desire to help and God?

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah, um, I mean, I don't think that's shaming anybody. I mean, I think that's that's a lot of us. I mean, we're we're listening I've tried. There's no getting out of this flesh until we leave up out of here. And as long as I'm stuck in this flesh, there are things that we're going to have to fight with, there are things that we're going to have to silence, we're going to have to have self-control to sometimes say, uh, something I like to ask myself a lot of time is why are you talking? I've always used to like, I want to say something, I want to say something. No, why are you talking right now? Um and and I I ask myself that often because a lot of times my voice is not needed right now. Um, even as a podcast host, you know, um, I find myself asking myself that a lot sometimes. Wait a minute, why are you talking? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, let the silence, just sit in the silence. Let's let him finish. Um it's something I I truly have to say a lot, but I realize that, yeah, there is this deep desire to want to add value, this deep desire to like just like show up with my chest out there, just be like, yeah, I know a lot. I came here tonight to help somebody. I can't, can you not see I got the Superman ass on here? I came to save somebody today. And uh uh um there is a deep desire to, isn't it crazy that there's a deep desire for a lot of us to say eight people? Like we want to be a savior. Like there is a savior complex to like if I can offer you something, then I can save you. And so cool, you saved me now. Like, like now, you're my savior, man. I'm gonna come to you whenever I'm going through a hard time. I'm gonna come to you whenever I need something, man. When life's going hard, I'm gonna come to you, man. Like, look, you available at 2 or 3 in the morning when like I'm my thoughts racing through my mind. Can I can I uh you know, God's always awake. Are you awake? Like, can I call you? You see where I'm going, you see where I'm going with this? Like, like you be you become now the savior for somebody when you were always as a Christian, if if we're talking Christian here, disciples, um, you were always supposed to point point people to the savior. Like, like, like, I think that is something we miss because this human flesh has a deep desire, has ego and a pride to want the glory, to want the praise, to want to save. And the truth is, is that you a lot of us forget that I was saved. Like, I was saved. And and because I was saved, it's my desire to point people to the savior, like the person who got me out of that hole, who jumped in and sat with me in the dark when I slept in that room by myself at night, when I slept in there and I didn't know where my life was gonna go, but I I felt like my life was over with. He got in that hole with me. He saved me, not me. I did this, I did none of this is man-made. I don't take credit for any of this. And so when you know that there is a deep desire to point people to Christ, and it's not always with prayer, but it's also your presence, it's through realizing that God can use me sometimes when I'm silent, the same way he can use me if I got everything to say and everything to offer. So um, yeah, I think that is a miss sometimes. That, you know, hey, listen, man, God, look, God, trust God to use you, bro. Yeah, but I mean, like, I gotta, I gotta learn the whole Bible, man, so he can know you don't, bro. Trust me, he's he's he's shown me that he could use me when I felt like I had nothing to offer people. Like, God, I'm, you know, I'm a I'm a cheater, manipulator, liar, cheater, st uh steal. And and you're telling me, even though I'm still working through these things, you want to use my voice. You want to use me. Like, no, this sounds crazy, God, but it's like, no, I I I can use you. I can use you. I don't, I don't, I don't need you to to to have it all down pack. I need you to be at a higher level on your level of enlightenment as you grow and you, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm talking new age, kind of like, like, like enlightenment and growth and all these different spiritual terms. It's like God's like, oh, yeah, no, just how you are right now. Yeah, you're still a little filthy. It's cool. It's cool. I I can use you just like that. Like, don't let them lie to you.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

I'm thinking uh when it's for the person that needs help. For the person that needs help, I know that I uh I've run into this a couple of times. Sometimes when a person gets in the trouble, right? They get in the hole, they get in the ditch, right? They just want to get out. The whole thought about I want to get out. I'm in here, I want to get out. Part of the ways to understanding, and the best way to get out of it is understanding how you got into me. So a lot of times we don't want to address how we got in that place. And I think that's where one of the biggest conversations needs to happen is how do we get here? Why are we here? What are we doing here? Right? Like what what happened to where all of a sudden you look up and you were just like, I'm drowning, or I'm stuck, or you know, I I like I can't figure it out. When you ask for help or when or when you need when you're in need of help or even when you're helping somebody, how important do you think it is to ask those probing questions? Like, all right, you know, I done sat with you, I done, you know, I done made you comfortable, I done made the space to where it should be inviting to, you know, share. How did you get here? And can we address that?

unknown 50:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Or do you feel like, well, let me get you out of there first and then we address it? Like, you know, because sometimes people get out of it, they're like, yo, I don't even want to think about how I got there, player. Uh, we good. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So what how do you how do you think that that those conversations should go? And if somebody that's in trouble or somebody that's in that situation that needs to get out of that place, how willing should they be to address how they got there in the first place?

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Yeah. Um, you know, one thing I've noticed that that that helps is that going back to the story of the man who jumped in the hole or was down in a hole and his and the friend jumped in the hole with him, truth is, is as he answered, he said, you know, why would you jump in here, man? It's because I've been here and I know the way out. The next question that that person in a hole probably asks is like, wait a minute, how did you end up down in here? That is the question. And if I am open and vulnerable enough to share with you how I found myself in the same or same hole, then it sometimes invites you to now be like, dang, if he can share that with me, if he's been through all that, if he was willing to gift that to me, I can sit here and I got a decision. I can sit here and keep my mouth shut and be like, yeah, man, that's that's a good story, man. I appreciate you sharing that. Or I can say, you know what? Bro, that sounds a lot awfully close to mine. Like this just turned into a Me Too movement because what you just shared with me sounds exactly how I got here. But like my shame is trying to like hold on to me and grip me back and tell me not to share it and not to say anything. My shame has got me in this nervous place right now where I'm just like, I don't know if I want to say anything. And and if you're willing to say, man, you know what? I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna tell you, man, I got here because I didn't know how to keep myself together, man. As I was telling my son the other day, man, I was sharing with my son, we were driving somewhere, and I was like, you know, son, um he was telling me about his girlfriend and stuff, and and and man, he's he's you know, he's young love, man, is is is something. I love it. I love it. It's something different. Yeah, and no, I mean, I just remember it, man. I remember how I was, man. And and you know, I I I began to share with him, I said, you know, I recognize how young love is the experience before the breaking that happened to me. And instead of being willing to say, man, I am broken right now, I am hurting, I responded, and I said this exact same thing then. I said, man, I responded to a wound by now not having, I didn't have a heart for anybody. I didn't, my my heart was locked away, and I I introduced myself that way. Um, I was reading, I was, wow. Man, okay. So I was reading, I was going through some old stuff in my house the other day, and I found an old letter from somebody that I knew a long time ago. I still know her. And she began to share how like she wasn't comfortable opening up to me, but she she had to write it in a letter. And she talked about how like I always had this hard mentality. I had I didn't allow my heart to get out. And I had this whole mentality of like pimp or die. Like, I'm I'm out here, I'm not trying to give my heart to nobody. And the truth of the matter was that that was a response to heartbreak. Instead of saying I'm broken and I want I need help mending, as I told my son, man, I ran around and I didn't know how to keep my private part. I'm being, I'm gonna be PG for this podcast, in my pants. Like I didn't know how to, I didn't have any self-control. I was running bleeding on everybody. I was working out of a hurt heart and and a and a and a wound that I didn't want anybody to look at, anybody to touch. Like, no, I'm good. Like, yeah, but you're bleeding on everybody. I'm good, I'm good. I said I'm good, I'm fine. And the truth was is that it it it I found myself digging a deeper and deeper hole and didn't even realize I was in a hole until things one day I looked up, and man, I realized that I was in something so deep that I couldn't get out on my own. And I think that's where a lot of us find ourselves scared, not willing to say anything. But if a person's willing to jump in that hole, if a person's asking if I can come down and sit with you, and they're willing to offer you their and show you their scar and say, Yeah, man, I know what that's like, bro. We got matching scars, bro. Um, that might be the opportunity for you to say, bro, I've been ashamed to talk about why I got this, but long time ago I had to man up when my heart got broken, when people told me that, like, man, get over it, bro. Like, put it behind you, let it go, all these different things. And so, yeah, I let it go. But the truth of the matter is the wound, oh, it was still there. The pain, oh, it was still there. Bro, you over her, bro. I've been over her, bro. I've been over her. Yeah, but like you can't tell though, because like I'm out here, man. I'm just, I'm just, I'm, I'm literally spiraling because I'm still, I'm bleeding, I'm losing blood. I'm losing blood. 20 years later, I'm still losing blood, man. I should be on life support right now. But the way I'm living my life, bro, I'm I've done the best I can up to this point. And the truth of the matter is, as you talked earlier about the kill shot I'm in. The truth is, is that whether you want to believe it or not, you've got an enemy. Whether you see him, whether you believe him, you got an enemy. His whole thing is to come and kill, steal, and destroy you. That's it. Bro, it ain't uh that's it. That's it. He and and and and the truth of the matter is he gonna make it a comfortable keel. He's gonna make it a comfortable grave. He's gonna take you out slowly or he can take you out quickly. But the truth of the matter is, is that is his whole plan. And so if that is his plan and you are willingly walking into walking into his plan, willingly not sharing and like just keeping it to yourself, bro. For a lot of us, we find ourselves in that hole starting to say, you know what? I'm just gonna give up, man. I'm like, I I don't got another move. I'm fresh out of moves, man. I'm tired. I'm tired of spiraling. I'm tired of like throwing Hail Marys. Um I'm just tired, boss. I'm tired, man. I'm tired of acting like I got it all together. I'm tired of smiling at people, man. It's taking so much energy for me to smile and act like everything's okay. I'm ready to like literally, like, I'm I'm I'm about to explode. But how will I look if I explode in front of all these people? So let me go and let me find a box. I'm gonna get in a box and I'm gonna self-detonate. And nobody will ever know. I'll go out like a like a G. That ain't that ain't going out like a G, bro. That's going out because you never wanted to address what was there the whole time. You never wanted to deal with what's there. And and and and that's that's that's that's where that's where I find myself in that intersection where I sit down with men sometimes, and and and it's not like it just opens up into a conversation sometimes, man. It's just like, what's your story, bro? Like, what's your life been like? Um, how's life treated you, man? How you feeling? How you carrying it these days, man? Like how hard is it, man? Come on, you ain't got to lie to me, man. I listen, I, bro, I ain't even gonna fake the funk with you, so you can keep it real with me. And and you start to realize that, man, this man is struggling, yo, and he's headed there, and he's run out of options, and he doesn't feel like there's another option. That's when you sit there, man, and that's when you you you begin to say, okay, look, I've been there before. I know what that's like, man. Um, there I there's there's a ton of options. There's a ton of resources out here. 988. Huge one. Huge one, man. It's not 911, it's literally 988, and it's literally a call that's that's that's that's not gonna report you to your job, report you to the police. No, it's just somebody on the other line that knows exactly how to walk this out with you, knows exactly what this is like. They sit there and they talk to people like that are in your position every day, all day. And each person is equally important. You're not just a number, you just not, yeah, no, you matter. And when you're on the other side of that phone call, you matter, and you've always mattered. But life's beginning to tell you that you don't. So, yeah, man. Um I know I went on a long spill there, but like, like that's No, that was good, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

No, no, no, no, no. That was good. That's a thing, and one of the things that you hit on that that really is telling, but it's also very um like you you people don't realize that you can give instructions just by sharing your path. When we're both, we've both been in the ditch. You were you were just in a ditch, right? You're in the ditch, I'm in the ditch. I got out the ditch before. Just by me, and this is one of the reasons why I I was asking about sharing as how did you get here? If I maybe how I got here is different from how you got here. So therefore, when we get out, there's there's a uh, you know, you have something where it's like, okay, I won't fall back down in the ditch a different way. I've seen I've I've been warned about this because this brother showed me this, right? And so you can actually give instruction for life by just sharing yours.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:39

And it's uh it's just that conversation that that back and forth that can unlock so many uh treasure chests, so to speak. You know what I mean? And you can live off of it for the rest of your days, but you just got to, if y'all can hear me when I tell y'all this, one, you gotta learn to shut up. And then two, you gotta understand that when it's that time to speak up and just share your life, your experience. There's nothing we I think too for far too long we want to, especially when we when we get in a um a certain status, right? Especially us as men, it don't matter the race. Let's just throw that out there. I know, I know we had a brief conversation earlier, and some people will point to how much harder one race has it over the other. This don't even matter about race. Sometimes we just want to we get to a certain status that we don't ever want to show that we ever had a weak moment. We never want to show that we had pain. We never want to show that. And it does a disservice to not only yourself, but those that are coming behind you, that they might have a special anointing on them, but they are so afraid to fail because you look at it like, oh, you were on the mountaintop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

You're on a mountaintop.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

And you've never been in the valley. One of the biggest things that uh my my cousin, my cousin Sean, we we we uh we talk all the time, right? And he hit me with something and I was just like, yo, that's crazy. I never thought about that. He was like, uh, everybody wants to get to the mountaintop, right? But nobody can live on top of a mountain because nothing grows there. You got to go back down in the valley to get renourished so that you can climb back up again. If you ever want to, you know, really enjoy that part of life. There has to be valleys. There has to be those moments of of struggle. There has to be those moments where you where you just got gotta eat.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

And when we unfortunately as men, we get to a um a you know a certain status, man, where we don't want to show that there was ever a moment where we were weak, where we were struggling, where we were failing. Right? Where we had those setbacks.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

When we made stupid decisions.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:43

Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

When we was bleeding on everybody, when it was like, yo, man, we was we were literally tearing people. We don't even know how many people we caused emotional or mental distress because we just were trying to deal with our own mess.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:02

Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

And we didn't want to, and we thought, like, yo, you are going to help me deal with this whether you like it or not. How unfair was that?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Yeah, you want to have a few more. How unjust was that, you know? You want this ride with me. I know you didn't choose to, and you don't know all this damage that I come with, but like you, you, you, you, you, you, you said you wanted to ride, so get ready for this ride. You're gonna take this ride with me. Um, yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right. No, bro, you're right. Uh what it is that they they they say, and I've heard this said many different ways, but like, like hurt people, whether you recognize they hurt or not, yeah, they hurt people. Um they they they bleed on people. They they they bring people into their wounds that now are transferred to them. I mean, uh it's a simple example you drive into work one day, man, and and all of a sudden you get cut off by a car and and and pfft, like, what the heck? And then they stick, they they they they stick out a finger and letting you. Know that they number one. And you like, oh, how dare they? And now I get to work. And I'm like, bro, I can't believe that person did that to me, man. And then here comes my co-worker, you know. Hey man, look, we got some things. Hey, man, not right now, man. Like, I'm I'm dealing with some stuff, man. Like, just hold that till later. And now your coworker goes back to his desk, like, dang, did I say something wrong? Did I do something wrong? Like now he's he's like, he's trying to like figure out what. And literally, those two people initially in the beginning of the story didn't even know each other. But I passed my pain from one person to the next car without even actually interacting. And now you pass that pain to your coworker. The truth is, is when you don't deal with what, even the smallest things, how people cut you off, how people are insensitive, how people do things. If you don't deal with it, then you hold on to that. The next time you drive and you like, they won't kick me today. Like, no, I'm gonna be more aggressive. And it's like, yo, like just the smallest stuff, little small things. It don't always gotta be something big, like heartbreak. It'd be something as simple as like people always push, you know. Whenever I go to the grocery store, oh man, come on, I know this is happening to people. Go to the grocery store and it's self-checkout lines, and all of a sudden it's always that one person who doesn't recognize there's a line. So like they just walk up and just see the next register and they jump in. I know I'm not the only one. I know I'm not the only one. And and and people looking at you, you look back at the people and they're looking at you like, why'd you say something?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

Like you think I want to do that, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

And and and you like, I mean, you know, it's it, I don't know what they're going through. And the truth of the matter is, it's more importantly, I can sit here and allow myself to feel like, yo, you just got punked. You just like they they didn't even care about you. Or you can say, you know what, it's all good. I they I don't know what they're going through. I'm not, it's not that I'm letting that go. I'm forgiving that person and move and and and and and releasing that. I'm not gonna carry that. I can go home and be mad at my wife because somebody cut me off at the grocery store, or I can release that and say, listen, I don't know what's going on in their life. But it's up to you what you choose to carry and what you choose to hold that can that can turn around and become a snowball and turn into a big snowball as it rolls down the heel in your life. And and so, like, yeah, and and then I want to hit back on what you said earlier. Um, and this may not be the platform for it, but like the truth is that if you look at people's lives who are willing to grow and are on a constant journey to heal because there is no destination of healed. In healing, you'll recognize that when you see them in different moments, you're like, it's on the mountaintop. Wait, man, that's a different mountaintop. Which means in order for him to have gotten from the last mountain you saw him on, he had to have gone through a valley. And sometimes for a lot of us, man, we miss the seasons. We don't want to talk about the seasons until we get back to the mountaintop. You know, even in my life right now, you know, I mean, like, like there have been mountaintop moments. And then there have been moments where it's like, dang, like, what am I doing? How do I, like, I don't know what's next. Like, God, like, what when does this, when does this end? How does this turn around? Like, I mean, personally, even right now in my own life, you know, um, um, I'm out of work. And how that feels after 18 years of working but having no work now, it can sometimes weigh on your identity of like, dang, am I am I worthy anymore? Am I good enough? Will I ever make it back to a mountaintop again? Now, yes, it's a great story if two a year from now I come back and tell y'all, like, hey, man, you know, there's this moment where I was out of work, but I'm back up on top again. I got a job now. Or I can tell you now, like, bro, I don't, I don't know what's to come. I don't know what God has in store. But here I am walking through the valley with him, trusting him. Um, and was reminded the other day when a brother reminded me that, you know, you'll praise God when he gives you a job. My wife even said this to me one time. She was like, God, God reminded me that you'll praise him if you give him a job if he gives you a job. But will you praise him when you don't get the job? And so I am back into a season where I am walking through the valley of like closed door. I'm gonna praise you anyway, God. I'm gonna praise you. I don't know why that happened, but it's it's you know what? I know you know what's next. I know you know what you have in store for me. And so I'm going to continue to trudge on because I saw already how what it looks like when life made me just feel like, I'm done with this, man. I'm tired of doing this, man. I'm tired of getting no, I'm tired of like not getting a car. I'm just tired, man. And I did. I kind of sat back and was just like, man, I ain't doing this no more. But I was reminded that no, man, like over time I lost my praise. I stopped praising God in the valley. And I began to sit down. I sat on a branch and I sat on a dead tree log, and I was just like, man, I ain't going nowhere. I'm gonna stay right here, man. And missed it. My assignment is to keep walking and keep praising. And so, yeah, I don't know what the rest of the story is. Like, I know a lot of people are like, What's the happy ending, man? What's the testimony? Well, the testimony is right now, I'm walking through it. And and there will come a day where I, you know, you'll you'll see me and be like, look at that brother, man. He up on the mountaintop, man. He stays on the mountaintops. But the truth is you'll be able to look back at this and be like, nah, man, there was there was work that happened to get him to that mountaintop. There was work that happened. There was him having to say, okay, I I gotta keep walking. I gotta keep moving forward. I got I got tired. I sat down, I just I took a break. But God said, no, come on, man. Let's keep going. Keep you gonna praise me even when they close the door? And that's a that's a serious question. Will you praise him when the doors are closed? And will you praise him when the season don't look like it did when you was on the mountaintop? Will you praise him?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:52

The um the um one of the one of the things that uh I want to definitely hit on is leading onto your family and your father, head of the household. These things we take a lot home. We take a lot to the crib. And our kids get it. All of a sudden it's just like, yo, they can't ask for nothing. We snapping. Like y'all uh we think that they are grateful because they're asking for something, but you know, they don't understand that, you know, you just you just keep going over the budget in your head 50, 11 times, and you just still try to find an extra two or three dollars. They don't know that. But they ask for something in that moment, and it's like, y'all, some old ungrateful dog getting you done. And you snap it at them and they don't understand it. So now that relationship is damaged almost, you know, you can't, or you can damage that, like they don't want to talk to you now. They don't want to, they just like yo, they they're afraid to even you know uh interact with you and or or they try to read you when you come through the door.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:08

Like, walking on eggshells, like yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:12

So when we when we thinking about it, man, it's just like like you said, um, with the little things, we gotta release the stuff and we gotta find a we have to find a way to cope with those little things that end up piling up. And then also when the big things do happen, now it just feels like all of the little things are getting hurled at you at once. Uh, you know, altogether. You get pelted for you know from the wind, from the these things that you had stacked up, these rocks that you you'd you'd have stacked up. So our our mental health, we just like being the head is like, okay, we have to realize that it's not one of those things where we need to start, where we uh need to be criminalizing one another for, that or that we need to be um, you know, putting people down because they're, you know, not uh, you know, they they don't handle an issue the same way you handle an issue, right? We gotta stop shaming folks or looking down on folks for seeking therapy. And when we finally do get to see a therapist, one we gotta stop acting like we still do, you know what I mean, with with the people in our lives. We still hold on to stuff. Yeah, we don't even release to the therapist.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

Yeah, that's a waste of time. You wasting everybody's time, you wasting money, yeah, man, that's a waste of insurance, whatever you use, and yeah, I don't know. Like, like, like, you know, speak on that. Uh speak on that. Whether it's a spouse, whether it's your spouse, worst thing you could ever do is be like, I'm sending you to a therapist. No, no, that's that is not how it's done. Like, like, you can't send somebody somewhere to force their, they'll go, but to force them to do something they're not ready to do. Um, it's it's gotta be something you want to do. It's gotta be something you see value in doing, uh, whether it's in visual therapy, couples therapy, like, like all of it should be something where you're like, yes, we need some help. And I'm I'm my ego is not big enough to where it's like, I don't need no help. Like, like, yeah, I listen, bro. We, oh man, I wish we could, I wish we could take the stigma off help being a sign of weakness. Saying I need help is the weak, is it it makes you weak. It doesn't make you weak, man. It makes, matter of fact, it makes you the strongest. Because tell me how many people are walking around out here like, hey, brother, I need some help. I'm really, like, I'm really like, imagine the people who are doing that and how vulnerable they look. You think a person who's who's who's without home, shelter, food, cares how they look when they sit on the side of the road and hold up a sign, hold up a sign saying, I need help. No, you've caught them in the most vulnerable point of their lives. And for a lot of us, there are more of us that need to be standing right next to them saying, I need help. Because the truth is, is you're driving by him, whether you're shaming that person or not, saying, Dang, man, that's that's tough. But you're living the exact same life due to the things you won't address because you won't hold up that sign and say, I need help because of how I look, because of how you look at them, and you miss that that is the strongest thing you could ever do to hold up a sign and say, I don't care anymore. I'm asking for help. I don't care how people see me or look at me or what they say about me. I need help. And that is, that is, when you get to that position, there is power, there is strength, there is a drive that comes with, okay, I've got to the point where I'm ready to, I'm, I'm ready, I'm ready to get some help. I need some help. And from that moment on, that is that that is the pivotal moment in a lot of people's lives where their life changes, where their life changes, and even more so if they're willing to say, God, I need you to walk this out with me. God, I want to invite you into my life. I need you in my life. Not just on Sunday, but I need you on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I need you every day except uh and Sunday, but I need you to walk this out with me. Amen. Like, I listen, I'm I'm not just I'm not just a I don't I'm not just a spokesperson. I'm a client. I'm a client. I have I have done this. I have done that. I did that, and I don't mind doing it any given time to say I need help. Yep. You can call me weak.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:02

At that point, at that point, at that point where you you alluded to it, how strong you gotta be. We're asking for help. When you get to the point where you are asking for help, you are showing the biggest resolve because you're saying I'm asking for help because I don't want to give up. I still gotta fight in me. I'm still I'm still trying, but I just need help. Yeah, you know what I mean? And it's like so that's why I I definitely do respect that, and especially as a father, because when things happen to your family, right? A lot and just personally. When things happen to your family, you take it on yourself. When things aren't going right with your kids, or your kids get hurt or they they're struggling with something, you take it personally. And I'm uh I want to share this with you because it changed my prayer life. This this moment changed the way that I pray, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:19:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:14

And this is this is this is a is is a it's it's a a moment. Okay. So for those that don't know, um, listeners that don't know, don't know me personally, um, my daughter, my my baby girl, she uh was born cerepopause, she was born early, and um she's paraplegic. She has a trach device, so it's like we can't even if she cries, we can't even hear her cry. We have to be looking at her to hear her, right? Uh there's only certain ways where she can like maybe hold her neck or something where it'll make a sound to even hear her. So we but that's my bait. Right? I was praying over her, and I've been praying, I remember this this day, it was it was not too long ago, maybe close to a year. No, not even that long, bro. Not even that long. I was praying, I I've been praying over her, and one day I was just it was just me and her. Her mom was, you know, um either gone or something, and it was just me and her, and I was just looking at her, and I was, you know, um, she has this way of smiling and you know, showing that she's happy, right? And I'm just like, what did I do? What did I do? God, like, why can't I heal her? And I will I remember I picked her up off her bed. And when I tell you, you know, the the snap bubble tears, that those that did cry.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:00

I'm just, I'm holding her and I got my and I'm crying the hardest I've cried in a long time. Because I'm just like, God, why won't you heal her? Why don't you hear my cry and just make, just heal part of it, just something. And I threw, bro, I'm holding her and I'm crying, I'm crying, and I open my eyes and look and look at her, and she's looking at me, and she is laughing her butt off, bro. When I tell you, she was it's one of those deep belly, like laughing. I'm like, yo, why like I'm in this moment where I'm I bust out in tears, and this is the weakest moment that uh that I've had in a long time. And why are you laughing at me? And I couldn't help but smile. I was like, you just happy to hear your daddy's voice, aren't you? You just happy to have me around. And it was like, I could hear it, like it was so loud, bro. The voice was like, that's the way I want you to be with me. And that moment completely changed my prayer life. I stopped asking for things. I stopped wanting to, God, please give me this job, or God give me, please give me this promotion, God give me this car. I just say, God, I just want to always be able to hear your voice. I just always want to feel you around me. And ever since then, and then shortly after that, um I'm in I'm in Bible study, I'm you know, my personal Bible study, and I run across the song, Psalm 7325, and it just confirmed that. And the the song reads, uh God, who who else do I have in heaven besides you? And there's nothing on this earth I want other than you. Man, when I tell you that that's my favorite song, and they and when I go before God and pray now, of course I'll interse uh I intercede, I pray for healing for folks, and I pray for you know the souls that are lost. But my prayer, when we know, when we truly know, because we say we have faith and we believe that God will provide all our needs, God will do all of these things for us. When I know, like, yo, that is my father. And you may you had mentioned something in the clip. It's like, yo, I have the best father ever.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:41

I have the perfect father.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:44

And he's always gonna make sure that I'm good.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:47

So therefore, I'm not worried about asking for things. God, just be near. Yeah. That's all I want. And it that moment changed my prayer life, man. Like that moment with my daughter completely changed my prayer life because she was just happy her father was holding her and was talking to her.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:09

She didn't realize my tears, she didn't realize what I was stressed about. She didn't realize the guilt that I was carrying. She didn't none of that. All she knew was like, my dad is here.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:21

That was it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:21

And bro, when I tell you that that completely changed my prayer life, and it completely helped me release so much of my burden that I was carrying. All because I felt like I failed my family some kind of way, and I didn't even know how I felt it. I just knew that I didn't see the hand of God the way that it should the way that I thought I should be seeing it.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:51

But the way that my kids are just shows me more and more how my relationship with God should be and how much that changed my life. My stress levels went down so much, and I've been able to just deal with things in a in a way that, you know, is not it's not just, you know, yo, I'll just pray about it, but it's more so, you know, covered.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, I I was sitting here and I was reading that verse you just said, and I thought I I read on, and I think the next verse is just as powerful, bro. And that it says, My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is just strength of my heart and my portion forever.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:41

Forever.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:42

And it's like when you realize like this flesh, it may, it it will one day fail. It it's gonna my heart is one day gonna stop. But God is a strength of my portion forever. That's not like, oh, as long as you're still living, no, forever. Into eternity. And so I think that there's there's so much to that of like realizing that we're not just it's not just like who he is while we're on this side of the earth, but who he is when we leave this earth, when we go home. And so I think that's that's so powerful, bro. That just as a reminder of like, don't get so focused on on the troubles of today. Don't get so focused on the troubles that aren't even troubles. Because to your daughter, she doesn't understand the trouble. You you you see it as a trouble, but she she realizes that one, she was made in the image of God. Two, she was given a great father. And so in all of that, you can't tell her anything right now because she has all she needs. Even when sometimes we feel like like, man, I wish it was, I wish it was different. It was, no, it's exactly how it should be. It's exact like the the blessing may not even be revealed yet, but the but the blessing is in the fact that like he gifted you with her.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:17

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:18

He gave you to store her. Like, like knowing that that that's his child, but he chose you. And I think that that's I mean, I've had to say that with my own kids before of like, like, dang, who am I for God to have entrusted me with them? And what am I doing when it comes to storting them in my life, storting them in the things that I go through? You said it earlier, you know, realizing that, like, hey God, you um you gave them to me not to hide things from them and one day have them thinking, like, dang, I thought life would be a lot easier than this, that, because my dad always like he just he just always had it together. He was always on the mountaintop. So, no, I invite my kids to walk in the valley. With me. I invite them, not not so that they can feel like, oh dad, I want to help. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. I just want you to realize that that God doesn't just stand on the mountaintops with us. He walks through the valley. He leads us to streams of water. He leads us to where we can rest. We can rest, not because it's it's comfortable down here. Because no, we're still vulnerable down here. But when we're watched over by him, it's all good. You're good. We're good. And so I want you to see that. I want you to realize that it vulnerability sometimes I think we miss this, but vulnerability is sometimes the easiest with your kids. Because as some people say they're gonna love you no matter what. So why can't you invite them sometimes into what's going on instead of like trying to make it look like you got it all together for them so one day they can carry it by themselves because they're like, well, my dad always made it look like it was easy, so I gotta carry it and make it look like it's easy. Bro, we we we we you gotta stay as I said, it's about breaking patterns. Patterns don't break if you just keep it to yourself. Oh, I figured out how to get out of that hole. No, patterns break when you jump in that hole and you you invite your kids into the hole with you, and you say, okay, we're gonna get out of this hole together. Not because this is your hole, but because I don't want you to ever think I didn't struggle. I don't want you to ever think that life was just easy. Life just just worked out all the time and made you tip you in the dark about everything that was going on, whether it be financial things or whatever, mental health things, whatever. It's like, yeah, no, I um li life has not always I I don't want you to ever think that I just made this look easy, like it was just nothing to it, and I just muscled through it and I was just strong. No, this is what strength looks like, son. It looks like tears. It looks like it looks like sometimes falling on my face and crying out to God.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:47

Crying out to God.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:48

It looks like sitt sitting up here in this room where you sit with me and these other men and we talk about things and we discuss life, we talk about our struggles, we talk about how God continues to show up, even when we we're still waiting for him to show out the way we want him to, even if it don't look the way we want him to, or w or it work out the way we expecting. God's still gonna show out in our life. So, yeah, man. It's not good yet. He's not done yet. That's how I love to say it.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:16

Well, we're gonna wrap this up. Yes, sir. You have been a blessing to have around the desk, man. I hope this is not your last time, man. I really uh I really hope not, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:26

You're gonna disciple desk it, man. Come on, man. I'm I'm I'm I'm we on this disciple journey, bro. So let's I I would I I would I would love to join you again, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:34

Absolutely, man. I appreciate that. And speaking on that, Matthew 28, 19, the Great Commission, Jesus said before he ascended, and I will even left the last commandment that to go forth in all the world, making disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But what we do know is that discipleship is hard, and that's why we are not called to walk this road by ourselves, but we're called to walk this road together. So let's just talk while we travel. Until the next time we gather around the desk, y'all be blessed.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:28

Into the moment the time is now We talk about the white now.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:37

Every move we take every step we take with the white.