47 | The Memo That Started It: Minda Harts' Guide to Workplace Equality

Have you ever dealt with a workplace bully who made you feel invisible, undervalued, or out of place?

In this episode, we dive into The Memo by Minda Harts—a powerful guide that shines a light on the realities that women, especially women of color, face in the workplace. Harts shares actionable strategies for navigating bias, breaking through barriers, and demanding the seat at the table you deserve. Her work is both a wake-up call and a blueprint for creating workplace equality, making this conversation essential for anyone committed to building a more inclusive professional world.

Learn more about Minda Harts:

• Minda’s Website = https://www.mindaharts.com/
• Minda’s Podcast- Secure The Seat = https://www.mindaharts.com/podcast
• Minda’s latest book - Talk To Me Nice = https://www.mindaharts.com/talktomenice

Sign up for Jenn Cassetta's newsletter for a boost of badassery to your inbox and never miss an episode: pages.jennifercassetta.com/newsletter

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hi there, I'm Jenny Cassetta, your Chief Badasserie Officer. If you're feeling drained, hesitant, stuck in self-doubt, or you just have a case of the vlog, the Art of Badass Ring podcast is here to help you unleash your mojo once and for all. We'll provide you with tips, techniques, and real-life examples of how you can kick ass in all areas of your life. You'll learn how to flex your mental muscles, rise above fear, and turn setbacks into superpowers. So let's enter the dojo and let's get to work. Welcome everyone to the Art of Badass 3 podcast. I'm Jen Cassetta, your chief badass 3 officer. And today I have a very special guest. Her name is Minda Hartz. And Minda is a best-selling and award-winning author of not one book, not two, but she is on her third book. Her first book is called The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Secure a Seat at the Table. Second book, within How to Heal from Racial Trauma in the Workplace. And now her third book that recently launched is called Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace. Welcome to the show, Minda. Hey, Jen, thanks for having me. Oh my gosh. And let me just go on about you because not only that, but Minda's also an assistant professor of public service at NYU. Amazing. The founder of her own career development business called The Memo. LinkedIn named her as the number one top voice for equity in the workplace back in 2020. And in 2022, one of the top 100 people transforming business by business insider. Those are some pretty big acknowledgements, accolades. How does that make you feel? Humbled. Humbled. If you would have asked me 10 years ago, would I get those recognitions? I probably would have thought it was an April Fool's job. Now, tell us what were you up to 10 years or how long did this journey take you? And obviously, I know you're not finished, but let's rewind. Like, where did it all begin? Yeah, great question. I think our origin stories are so important. So we don't forget the journey and be grateful for what we've been able to accomplish. But I literally, Jen, 10 years ago, I was sitting inside of corporate America. I started a blog in 2015, that dinosaur thing called a blog. Yeah. I had one. And where my mom and my brothers were like the only subscribers. I've been in corporate America maybe for for about almost 10 years at that point. And I was always the only, only woman of color. Youngest. I was just feeling all these only's all the time. And I just thought, man, we were I work at the same place with my colleagues, but I don't experience the workplace the same. And so I started to write this blog about these experiences, but not from a okay, how do you advocate for yourself when you do have a bad manager? How do you ask for more when you find out that you're making less than your counterparts? I was still in my day job. I say jokingly, I was healing while I was in hell. I was still working in my job. I had found kind of like peace to write in this way. And then eventually memos I had been writing for four or five years turned into my first book. The memo. Okay, I love it. Was the blog called The Memo? It was my weekly memo. Okay. And my blog was called Health in the City back in the day. But okay, healing while in hell, is that could that be the fourth book? Because I like that. That could be. Or that could be a psychological thriller film. Okay, so then so the memo came out. Was it an instant hit, or how did that work for you? I would say the memo was a slow burn. I at that time we weren't talking about race and gender in the ways that we talk about it now. And so it was very taboo when the book first came out. And I remember some companies calling me, like, one of the ladies at our job uh here said you should come and talk about it. But what are you gonna say? None of this stuff happens here, but come in and talk about your little book vibes. And eventually people are like, Oh, this is important work. And then 2020 took place, and then we had all of this unrest and the pandemic. We had a syndemic, multiple things happening at once. Then it just blew off the shelves. And so then it became this best-selling award-winning book, but it definitely took time a month before it became that because nobody knew who I was and this book. And then not just women of color were reading the book, but managers and others because we work together in the workplace. So, how can you show up and be respectful and helpful if you don't understand what the person working alongside of you is dealing with? Okay. So then the question was when did that come out? What year was that? That came it came out in 2019, the hardcover, and then like a year and a half later, the paperback. And by then it was starting to like really roll. And so by the time the paperback came out, it was like the memo was pretty much everywhere. Like all companies were inviting me to come and talk about it. And it was just like one minute I was like, companies are like, what are you gonna say? Tell me all the words first. And then next minute it was like, come talk about it. Let's talk about the memo. Everybody needs to get the memo. But it all started from that seed of a blog. And what's just amazing if you start the work, what will come from that? Okay, so that's so amazing. First of all, that it was a slow burn, right? That's just really encouraging to me as an author, but I'm sure lots of people who put a project out there and you're like, hello, is anyone out reading this? And then all of a sudden for it to take off. But the other thing is the fact that you said, like, companies at first, they're like, Oh, what are you gonna say? I felt that way, and I still feel that way with self-defense because a lot of companies don't want to address that there is a problem in their company in the workplace. But yet, if we don't address these problems, then they're just always just gonna be there. So was there a a moment or something where all of a sudden people started to get it? I think that to your point, it was like we can't conquer what we're not willing to confront. So we can pretend that all these things are happening, the fires are going, but if we don't say, hey, there is one, but how do we solve for it? And eventually, once people started to bring me in, they're like, oh, she's a safe space. I want to be able to get a good referral to the next company, right? People just realized that I provided practical solutions that everybody, even if you're a woman of color or you're just a manager or uh or an aspiring ally in the workplace, that you just had the tools to be able to do that. And I use pop culture and music to, you know, put out those meanings. And so that resonated with people. And then they're like, okay, this isn't as spooky as we think is awesome. And was there anything personally challenging that you went through that sparked either this book or the second or the third? Because really, being a black belt and badassy is all about overcoming some challenge. And we all have them, but then overcoming it in a way that you now share with others and you have this like you obviously have a mission. So can you share anything like that with us? Yeah. So the memo was birthed out of pain, potentially. I was in my day job and I was being, I guess we have the language for it now where we call bullying, but at the time I didn't have that language. So I had a colleague who was constantly aggressing me, trying to undermine my work, and I just couldn't, for the life of me, figure out what was going on here. It just got really bad. And everybody in the office, because that person had 10 years of 20 plus years over me, and the clients really loved her work, everybody was just like, oh, just have thick skin, Minda, just fight through it. And for a long time I was able to fight through it, and then eventually I started getting panic attacks inside of meeting. Oh no. Hair loss and weight, and it just became really bad. And at some point I just had to choose myself. And it was really sad, Jen, because I had worked so hard, first generation college student, first person to work in corporate America, really there helping my family. And so for many years, I just had to grin and bear it because I wasn't in a position to quit, like many of us, right? Or breadwinners, whatever the case. Once it started truly impacting my mental health and my physical health, I thought, you know what? I deserve better than this. I deserve humanity at work. I deserve respect at work. I deserve dignity. And I had to walk away. But while I was going through that, I started the memo, and that was my soft place to land. Oh, I love that. Bullying at the workplace is like so real. And just so you know, I I really haven't been in corporate America. For 25 years, I've been an entrepreneur from a personal trainer to coach. And so I don't have a lot of experience in corporate America. So it baffles me that this is still going on, that there are people that think they're better than others, or it's just really, but I always think of this woman who I did work for back in the day. It was one of my first jobs, and it was in a small office. And this woman, Cheryl Swanson, just calling her out. She was so mean to me, and I could not figure out why. And finally, one day, it all came to a head because she she would yell at me, she would raise her voice, and it was just so not okay. Also, because I didn't really work for her directly. I worked for one of the partners who was super nice to me. Finally, one day she sends me this email where she's do XYZ and F slash U. So in my very naive, very yucky, I'm like, did she just tell me to fuck off? That's it. I've had it. Like, get up from my desk, I walk downstairs, I barge into her office, and I just I didn't address what she said in the email, but I just said, I have had it. I don't even work for you, and you are so unkind. I can't remember the words I said to her. Anyway, she let me just walk out and I didn't, and I was just like in shock. Went home that day, told my roommate who had a little more experience in bigger companies, and she just started laughing and said, Jen, F slash U just means follow up. So anyway, that was my big message. But the learning for me was that sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself, and then all of a sudden from then on, Cheryl was super nice to me. Go finger. That's it, right? The self-advocacy, and I think that we all learn like a valuable lesson the more you allow people to terrorize you in a sense. Okay, at what point am I participating and allowing them to keep doing this to me? Do you remember anything about that person? What specifically, like a line she used, or anything that we oh god, that was pretty much the emphasis for the memo. The memo, I got my revenge. Her name in the book is Carrie, that's not her real name. But so Carrie, she gets to live in perpetuity in my book and now in my film of the memo. And a lot of people then say, Oh, I have a Carrie too. But and again, Carries come in all shapes, sizes, forms, but the behavior, the behavior. I remember when I left, I had a conversation with the most senior leader there saying, Hey, this is an issue. Everybody knows it's an issue. Can you please help remove this barrier for me? Because clearly I can't do it by myself. And she said to me, I'll never forget, she said, Linda, we hired you because we thought you had thick skin, you're really great worker, so you need to decide. She's not going anywhere. And they were best friends, so it was also an issue there. I'm like, okay. And next thing you know, I say to her, I hope we could have this conversation in confidence. You're over the lean-in group here at work with Cheryl Sam women's advocate. I'm like hoping for some help here. And then next thing you know, Jen, I go back to my desk and my carry calls me on the phone and she starts, I heard you're talking about me too. And I'm like, okay. But it was like stuff like that all the time. I would throw a client event and she would call my clients and say, How many people were there? Was Minda professional? We work together. You're not even my manager. Yeah. Well, what is going on here? And that's the kind of stuff she would do, or she would CC my manager on things that had nothing to do with him. And it's what is your intention? And she would just pick and pick. She called me. The last throw was she called me on the phone at work because she sometimes worked in the office, sometimes worked from home at the time. And she said, One of my clients said that they saw met a black girl at the event. And I thought, how many black girls do we have at the office? And she's, I'm sitting here and she's I thought it was you, Manda. Do you know any other black girls? And I and she just kept going. I'm just like, okay, all right. So this is where we are. And so I realized at that time I can't change this environment. I have to be the one to make empower myself and leave. And now you empower others. So, what then led you to the second book, right? Oh, so I spent 15 years in corporate America and I didn't realize how much healing I needed. I needed to reset the way I saw myself because even though we're we've ascend to certain places, the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves is just as damning, right? And so if you feel like you don't belong here or you feel like you're always walking on eggshells, that does something to you in a toxic relationship. I spent 15 years in a toxic relationship. So even though I left, didn't mean that all that residue just left, right? So I wanted to talk about, even though the book talks a lot about racial trauma, you really can insert any type of instance that you've felt that was harmful to you in the workplace. And there's a lot of affirmations, a lot of just healing mentally, because we can't control what the carries of the workplace do, but we can control how we show up. And healing and healing is a lifestyle. Yeah, absolutely. So not everybody has racial trauma, but bullying. What other kinds of toxic work behaviors have you seen in the work that you do to be the most prevalent? I think just mostly the way that I think gossiping, backbiting, favoritism, all of these sorts of things just growed workplace dynamics. If you're always the go-to person, but you're never getting a promotion. You figure if you're never getting the promotion and you've been somewhere for 15, five years and then they hire somebody else, but they keep dangling this invisible carrot in front of you, that's harmful, right? You start to question, am I good enough? And you don't realize how a lot of that impacts not just how you are inside the workplace, but also when you walk out, right? Yeah. The people who love you the most don't get the best out of you when you're always in fight or flight mode. And that's where most of these podcast episodes go is like, how do we reset our nervous system? How do we heal from traumas? So, what was your healing process like to heal from the racial trauma and the bullying and everything that you experienced? I've been out of the traditional workplace in six years, but I tell people I'm still healing, right? I'm not fully healed, and but I'm more myself, my skin's glowing much better than it was. But then part of it was actually taking my agency back. I don't write any of my books so that people will flee the workplace because some people love the work that they do. But what I do hope is that we have better conversations to let people know what good looks like. I think I had lost my voice for a very long time in some of those environments, and I realized that I always had it. I just had to decide how I want to use it. And I feel every day I'm using my voice that provides more healing to me, and hopefully that encourages others to have better conversations so that people know what good looks like to you. Beautiful. I love that. So part of your healing process, the actual practices is writing and using your voice. Absolutely. And a little bit of therapy mixed in. Yeah. That is the self-care, right? Being a truth teller, walking in my truth. I know it's not always easy to have the say the things, but we realize that when we say the things, it's not just for us, but it's for the next generation too. And you have a podcast as well, right? I do. Can you say more about that? Yeah, I have a podcast called Secure the Seat. It's basically just talking about how we prepare for whatever seat it is, but mostly understanding that success is not a solo sport. We don't have to be an island in the workplace. Even if you've been harmed in the past, one of the things I had to do and I write about too is just because I had a carry in one environment doesn't mean I have to be afraid to build relationships in other environments, right? So releasing the baggage so that you can see others who really want to help you and support you. I love that because that's a setup to what I wanted to talk about in your latest book, Talk to Me Nice, the seven trust languages for a better workplace. How did you get to that? But also, can these trust languages help in other areas of your life and relationships and partnerships, marriages, etc., not just in the workplace? Because I would imagine they could. Yeah. Thank you for asking. So I I wrote a few books and I didn't think I wanted to write any more books. I'm like, I don't have anything else to say. I've said it all, right? And then one day, a few years ago at three o'clock in the morning, for those who understand, if you go to the bathroom sometimes at a certain age more than you used to. So I get up in the middle of the night. And then I have this like idea in my head about the trust languages. And I thought, if we have love languages for our romantic and platonic relationships, then what would it look like to have that for the workplace? And the more I do a lot of public speaking and I would have people email me or approach me and say, I don't trust my manager, I don't trust my colleague or the big one, I don't trust HR. And the more I started to think about it, no matter who it was, male, female, intern, whatever the case, they would say, I don't trust. And I started asking questions. I'm like, is it that you don't trust, or is there an expectation gap that's not being met? And then we talk a little bit more about that. I'm like, so what you're saying is you need more clarity and honesty. You need more transparency, right? Oh, what you're saying is you need more feedback. And they'd be like, Oh, yeah, I guess. I said, okay, because you're not getting that, you feel like you can't trust the person that you work with, but they don't know you need that. So there's an expectation. So what would it look like to have a conversation to find out what trust looks like to you? And then trust is a two-way street and how you can give that to your colleagues. And so that's what really was the catalyst for the seven trust languages, so that we could be speaking each other's languages the right way. Yeah, I love that so much. So, in case anyone out there listening, never heard of the four love languages by Gary Chapman. They are acts of service, words of affirmation, gift giving, and what's the I always miss one. What is the other one? Acts of service. Oh thank you, which is probably not mine because I always forget it. Yes. When you when this is three o'clock in the morning, obviously, you didn't probably go on a deep dive then. But that isn't it funny how the best ideas sometimes come to you just at the most random times when we're most relaxed, usually, right? Yeah. I came back to the bed, put it in my notes, and then I didn't do anything with it for a year. And then I'm like, oh, maybe there's something here that I wasn't and this just came out, right? Just came out a few weeks ago. Okay. So basically you've been writing a book every two-ish years. Like a mad woman, yes. Yeah, that's a lot that's a lot of work, and I know that's a lot. Okay, so can we dig into the seven trust languages? Oh, no, first though, I saw in either some of your interviews or I did some deep dives on the testimonials, but you were talking about that trust is not just like a nice woo-woo kumbaya kind of thing. It's really good for business, how it affects burnout. Yes. So Gallup poll and the Edelman's Trust Barometer came out earlier this year, and both of them said that when trust is present, we experience 40% less burnout, 21% more productivity, and 50% more retention on your employees. So it's not just, oh, okay, let's do a trust fault, be done with it. It's good for business. So why wouldn't we want both of those things, right? Why wouldn't we? And yet, like our Cheryl Swanson's and our what was her name? Carrie. Carrie, Carrie. And I hate when women are bullies. I really do. It's kind of like break my heart. Stop. Please. You're just making us all look bad, first of all. And this whole women's empowerment, we're supposed to help each other rise. And trust me, one of the first women's summit conferences that I was asked to speak at, the founder of the movement was so mean to me. It's like, is this for real? I couldn't even I couldn't even understand it. Because the company who hosted this organization was the one who hired me. So the founder of this organization wasn't the one who chose me for the keynote. So maybe she was annoyed by that, or I don't know what it was. But I'm telling you, she left me out of the happy hour invite. Like she was just not nice. And I'm like, really? We have a we'll have to do this after dark edition at some point and talk about those things. I have another I have one similar twit. Was a woman and it hurts. It's like it's this is so unnecessary and it's so old. Let's stop. Let's stop. Thank you. Okay. All right. So trust is good for business. It's good for relationships, good for marriages. Good for so many things. Can you start to dangle on what these seven trust languages are? Yes. So I wrote them, Jen, for the workplace, but I'm actually some readers who've made it through or making it through the book now, they are saying, you know what? I'm about to use these for my family because there's certain things that just resonate for bettering humanity. One point I want to make is that we will spend 90,000 hours of our lives at work. Wow. And I know that's a very sobering number. So why would we expect trust to be present in our romantic and platonic relationships, but not at work, right? So it's important to say if we're going to spend so much time there, that be a place that trust is a catalyst to. When I had conversations with different people, it fell into one of these seven buckets, right? And when you read the book, you might have a primary, a secondary, or a tertiary language. But again, transparency is you seek that clarity and honesty. Security is both that intellectual oh sorry. Are they like one is transparent? Okay. Yes, sorry. I'll start over. No, that's okay. I just want to be super clear on it. There are seven languages, and I'll go through them really fast. So number one is transparency. That's clarity and honesty. Number two is security, physical, emotional, and intellectual security in the workplace. So you give an idea out in a meeting, somebody doesn't co-opt it and make it their own, so you feel safe enough to share your ideas. Number three is role modeling what you what good looks like, right? It's the action. You're demonstrating an action, a verb. Four is feedback. It's that meaningful and consistent insight. Five is acknowledgement, because some of us love to be acknowledged, right? Being seen. Yes. That aren't words of affirmation, right? Yes. Six is sensitivity, being mindful of the impact in our behaviors that they have on others. And number seven is follow-through, keeping your word, right? You don't realize that I know that many of us don't show up in our lives and say, who can I erode trust with today? But if those unintentional moments that erode trust, it's not always the grand acts of betrayal, it's the small things that go left unsaid. So if you knew that I needed a little more clarity, you would probably provide that to me if you knew that's what I needed. Right. Absolutely. And so I obviously don't want you to give away the whole book because we want to go out and buy it, but just two that really stand out for me the security one. Obviously, because of my line of work for self-defense and empowerment and all of that. What I realized in my own work, and this just came to me the other day. And when is I was like, what's the through line for with all that I do? And it's all about helping people feel more safe. And again, not just physically with self-defense moves, but mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially, all of the ways. Because when we have that foundation of safety, then we can go and create the lives that we want, right? Then we can feel safe to take risks, then we can feel safe to use our voice, then we can feel safe to create projects, etc. But if you don't have that, then you're always living in fight or fight. You're always where your frontal lobe is turned off, you can't tap into creativity or logical thinking a lot of times, and you're just basically scared all the time. Your nervous system is yeah. Can you say more about that chapter specific? Is it a separate chapter? So the cool thing about the trust languages, and I also have quizzes in there to help you identify what yours is and what others are, because again, trust is a two-way street. So security has its own chapter, and we can really dive deep inside of that. And I think that once we understand what we need from people, we can articulate that. And again, I think that I'll take feedback for example. I'm somebody who really values feedback. And I used to have a manager and I get so irritated with him because I'd finish a project, I'd do five projects, he wouldn't tell me anything, and I'd be like, he doesn't trust me. And then I realized, wait a second, he doesn't know you need feedback, Minda. So is it that he's not trustworthy or is there an expectation? So it which you're feeling may be true, but it's not a fact. So we had to have a conversation with him and say, you know what? Not going to him, accusing him of not caring about my work, but saying, Hey, I finished five projects recently. It really helps me when you provide some input on that so that I know I'm on the right path. Is that something we can partner together on? I was dealing with him, yes, but at least that part that I had created this narrative in my mind that he I can't trust him. How we have solved the communication gap? It's less about trust and more about the communication crisis. Feelings are in facts. That's great. Okay, so any specific like people that you've worked with or case studies, I guess, for that particular trust language, security, feeling safe. Do you have any stories like of how that changed people for the better? Yeah. Recently I was having a conversation with a client, and we were actually talking about me coming and doing a talk on the seven trust languages, but then they were saying they were starting to read the book, and they realized that one of the reasons they don't feel like trust is present is because they don't feel like when they give an idea in a meeting that they're gonna get the credit for it. So they don't feel that intellectual security and how they're feeling stifled. And she didn't have the language to be able to articulate that. And so now she's having prepping to have the conversations with those people who tend to co-opt the ideas, right? To have the conversation to where here's a solution, here's what I'm seeing, would love to work on this. And I think part of it, the work that you do, the work that I do, we have these feelings, but we don't have language for them. And now we get those they people get those aha moment, oh, that's what I've been trying to convey. That's what the issue is. And doesn't mean that person's gonna give you security, doesn't mean that, but at least we had a conversation. There's a study out there, Jen, that says eight out of 10 people will leave a job they like, having never had a conversation about the conflict. And if not me, we can't all leave our jobs. So what we're gonna have to do is give ourselves permission to have a good conversation so that people understand. Now, if they continue to be offensive and egregious after that, then that's a different conversation. But let's at least give people the benefit of the doubt. I feel like since the pandemic, there's no room for consideration, there's no room for nuance, there's no room for giving people the benefit of the doubt. And I think we need to usher that back in so that we can have better conversations and have better information before we make the story up in our head about what we think is top word. Yeah, that's beautiful. And what I'm hearing is that this is a process, right? First is to figure out what your trust language really is, maybe top three out of the seven. And then there has to be a conversation, which you're saying with the person, but really an ask. Yeah. Like a partnership. Here's how I would feel in this case, secure or safe. Yeah. And then an ask. Like, would you partner with me on that?

unknown 29:40

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

And they can say no. They could be like, whatever, that's a bunch of bull. I don't care. But then at least you know where you stand. And that's information that we all need to know. Our anxiety is around the unknown, the lack of clarity, right? So now if we know, we can finally decide is this person trustworthy or not? And vice versa. Am I being trustworthy? If I keep telling you that I'm gonna do something every Monday and I'm never fault-keeping my word, what is that doing to you? It's eroding trust. I don't that may not be my intention, but that's the impact. And I feel if we can remember that people are human first and everything else second, and give people that space to be able to at least try to show you what trust could look like. Yeah, beautiful. And then the other one I just want to touch on, and again, they're standing out to me probably because they're my trust languages, but the other one is acknowledgement. Again, words of affirmation would be my love language thing. Just same tell me all the good things, just tell me it's gonna work. Yes, back and but specifically in the workplace. Again, now I do have a bit of a team. I have you know an excellent thank you, Raina podcast producer. I have a guy, Daniel, who's working on my YouTube channel. So I do have folks now that I'm working with, right, on my team in a way, where I really didn't have that for so many years. And I'm my my normal go-to would just be to like fire off an email real quick or say something real fast as an ask or a request or this. And I'm now, right, all these years later, training myself to say, Jen, slow down, take a beat, connect with someone, acknowledge the work that they're doing. And it's just so simple, yet it's can be so overlooked.

unknown 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

How is acknowledgement woven into this book as one of the trust languages? Yeah, there's a study through the Edelman's Trust Barometer that says they ask, what are the five things that employees want? And one of the top five was acknowledgement. That again, you may not be able to give anyone a raise or stipend or a bonus, but you can say job well done. That makes somebody feel so much better, as opposed to recently I had a woman send me a message and she was listening to a podcast episode that I was talking about this, and she had been at a company for 25 years and her anniversary hid that day, and she got an email, an automated email, that said, Oh, it's your anniversary. And in the signature, it was the CEO from three years ago. Oh, and nobody said anything to her that day. She's moved across the country and abroad like countless times, and she said, Minda, I just felt such a lack of acknowledgement. It would have been nice had somebody acknowledged me. The CEO that email came from is no longer even here. And then I went to the HR person to let them know, hey, I got this automated email with the wrong CEO, just wanted to make you aware of it. Still nothing. And she told me, you know what? I don't know that I could do another year here if that's the way. And they just asked me to move again. I don't feel like I can trust them. And I said, What would have changed for you? And she's some acknowledgement. I just had that would have gone a long way because I've been so loyal and I didn't feel that same sense of loyalty. And I don't think that companies understand how easy it is. Or even the other thing I want to say, Jen, acknowledgement isn't just the bells and the whistles and let's throw a pizza party for somebody. It's also acknowledging when hard things are happening, right? So, for example, a lot of people are getting laid off or reorganizations. Let's acknowledge the elephant in the room. I understand this is a hard time. We're talking about return to the office. I want to thank each and every one of you for being flexible, right? I'm acknowledging that this is tough right now, but I want to acknowledge everything that you're doing to be accommodating right now. That goes a long way for people as opposed to just get back here five days a week, right? No questions asked. And on that note, right now, I am baffled by the amount of folk, whether in corporate America or even podcasters, authors, etc., that are not acknowledging what's going on in this country and how it's affecting so many different groups of people. I honestly, I'm like, if again, if I ran a major company and had people from all walks of life, I would be talking about it. Like, not necessarily in a way that's gonna make it more divisive, but just to acknowledge that this is not easy. Do you find that there's any companies doing that right now in a good way? A few, a few are. And I think that seven trust languages gives language to that, right? Because maybe this, maybe you're a middle manager right now and you feel like your hands are tied, but on a micro scale, you can say to your team, thank you for being flexible. I know that times are tough right now. I don't have all the answers, but I want to be honest with you, right? I want to show some transparency right now. I know you're not a robot. So this is important. Or to your point, there's a lot going on in the world. What's going on in place that and that's the language of sensitivity, understanding that this is a polarizing time, regardless of where you sit on the aisle, everybody is feeling something, a weight, right? So let's acknowledge there are many weights taking place, and we just need everybody to band together, give us some time to demonstrate what better could look like. Just because we may not have the department we had a year ago, right, doesn't mean that we don't care about you as employees. That goes a long way for maybe a woman who no longer has a woman's ERG. Can we just acknowledge this? That all of this backlash on DEI, like women's ERGs are being defunded. Again, from all the progress that we thought we were making, to then just have the run pulled out from uh us, and I'm saying us because and not that I work in a company, but it impacts everybody at the mirror. Everybody is impacted in this climate. What can we do, Minda? You are doing it, you are helping us be badass even in tough times. And and I'm helping give the language to when we feel like those erosions. I don't think anybody wakes up in the morning and says, How can I erode trust with somebody? But our actions do have impact on that. And if we could all, to your point, take a beat and say, Okay, before I send out this email real fast, having not read it, before I make this decision, how is this going to signal to the people who are on the other end of it that we do have control over? Yeah, trust. Honestly, you're giving me so much to think about in my daily interactions with anybody, really, because there was something else that someone said in your testimonials, your book testimonials. If people trust you, they'll work with you. If they don't, they won't. So again, it's good for business, it's good for life, it's good for partnerships. And those seven trust languages are transparency, security, role modeling, feedback, acknowledgement, sensitivity, keeping your word. How do you have anything online that we can do? A quiz of do I know we're gonna buy the book and read it all about it, but is there a quiz online or anything? No, not yeah. But if you do get the book, all the quizzes and assessments and even scripts, because I realize that sometimes in our books, we somebody will say, Go do the thing, but then you don't know how to do the thing. So there's scripts that you can make your own. If you do go to my website, mindahearts.com, there and you sign up for the newsletter, you can find I do send out some goodies. Oh, I'm getting on that list. But and right before we wrap, there were three questions that you said we can ask to find out what someone needs to feel trusted. So now if we want to be proactive about a relationship that we're in, whether professional or personal, we can actually, you know, find out from that person. Do you want to say what those are? Yeah, a couple that people can ask is if you are curious where trust stands. And again, trust isn't automatic, so it can be subjective. So we might think somebody trusts us. Like we did that thing last week and now they're side-eyeing us and we don't know about it. Ask this the simple question what does trust look like to you? Because once you ask that question, it's probably gonna fall in one of those buckets, right? The other thing you can ask yourself is what does someone need from me to feel valued and respected? Because again, we can point to all our Sharons and our carries of the workplaces, but what are we doing that might be showing up in a way that's not helpful to other people? Again, unintentionally, but if we knew better, we'd do better. Keep those two questions again, ask people what does trust look like? And also ask, what do you need from me to do your best work or feel supported by me? And I think that in our day-to-day lives, we can do this, and it can just be part of how we engage because I feel like we just don't engage with each other through a lens of humanity and respect. And I hope that we can get back to that. Oh, I hope so too, Minda. Thank you so much for the work that you do. And I just hope this book goes viral. Uh can't wait to dig into it. But before we go, I have four rapid fire questions. If you'll trust me, I can okay, we can you through them. Ready? Yes, let's do it. Number one, what was your favorite food when you were a kid? Always pizza. Still pizza, absolutely. Roberta's and Culver City. Number two, if you could have a drink with anyone, this person could be alive or dead, who would it be, and what are you drinking? Oh, that's a good question. So I'm a big, if anybody knows me, I'm a big Beyoncé fan, and so I would be having a drink with Beyoncé and I would have some of her whiskey. Perfect. Does she have her own whiskey? We have our own whiskey now. Of course she does. Amazing. Number three, what's your favorite self-help book besides yours? Yes, I would say probably the four agreements. I don't know if that's considered a self-help book. That is in my bookcase, and I just stay peaning into that. Fantastic. And last but not least, what's your favorite hype song? I'm gonna say all we do is win, my DJ Calib, because even when I don't feel like I win, I put that on and I'm like, I feel like a winner. Perfect. It's going on the playlist. Amazing. Minda, thank you so much for sharing so much of your book, so much of your story, so much of you and your wisdom with us. Where can everybody find you? I know you already mentioned your website, minaharts.com, anywhere else on socials. But wherever you like to play on the social media streets, find me there. Yeah. You have a big LinkedIn presence. I noticed that. That's where I my drug of choice is LinkedIn. So it's quality there. Okay. Wonderful. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for listening. And if you trust me by now, would you do me a favor and subscribe to this channel? Because so many of you are listening without subscribing. When you subscribe, you will get the notification so you will not miss an episode of the Art of Badass Re podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful day, and see you next time on the Art of Badass Read Podcast.