The Art of Badassery with Jenn Cassetta: Mindset, Motivation and Empowerment for Women

43 | Why Relatability Should Be Your Superpower with Rachel DeAlto

• Jenn Cassetta • Season 1 • Episode 43

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0:00 | 40:15

Could the secret to boosting your health and overall happiness be as simple as nurturing deeper, more authentic relationships?


In this episode of The Art of Badassery podcast, host Jenn Cassetta chats with Rachel DiAlto—communication and relatability expert, keynote speaker, and author of The Relatable Leader and Relatable. Rachel traces her journey from practicing law to becoming a sought‑after media personality, revealing how genuine human connection not only reshaped her career but also elevated her well‑being. Together, they unpack why intentional communication is vital for combating the loneliness epidemic, how quality relationships can improve both mental and physical health, and practical ways anyone can weave more relatability into everyday interactions to create a richer, healthier life.


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SPEAKER_01

Hi there, I'm Jenny Cassetta, your Chief Badassery Officer. If you're feeling drained, hesitant, stuck in self-doubt, or you just have a case of the vlog, the Art of Badassery podcast is here to help you unleash your mojo once and for all. We'll provide you with tips, techniques, and real-life examples of how you can kick ads in all areas of your life. You'll learn how to flex your mental muscles, rise above fears, and turn setbacks into superpowers. So let's enter the dojo and let's get to work. Welcome everyone to the Art of Badassory podcast. I'm Jen Cassetta, your chief badasstery officer. And today I have a very special guest. I can't wait for you to meet Rachel D'Alto. Rachel is a communication and relatability expert, keynote speaker, and the author of two books. Her latest, which is called The Relatable Leader, Create a Culture of Connection, and her first book, Relatable, How to Connect with Anyone, Anywhere, Even If It Scares You. I love that subtitle. Rachel holds a law degree and a master's in psychology. She's a trusted expert in the media. Rachel has appeared on Lifetime's Married at First Sight, TLC's Kate and Date, and more than 200 national outlets. Her TEDx talk, Being Authentic in a Filtered World, is featured on TED.com and explores the power of authentic communication in a digital age. And boy oh boy, don't we need more of that? Authentic communication. Rachel, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00

So good to be here and so good to see you.

SPEAKER_01

Rachel and I know each other for at least 10 years now. We met back when we were doing the college speaking rounds on the same speaking agency called Campus Speak. The same one, the same way I met Britt Piper, which was a guest on this show just a few episodes ago, if you listen to that. So we all go way back. And I've just been watching your career grow and grow and transform. And I'm just very inspired by you. I want to hear just all of it.

SPEAKER_00

I feel the same about you. I just want to say that. I love I and it's cheering you on. And I feel the same way. And I feel like the community of people that we've met over the years, just from speaking, has been so incredible. And just watching everybody just do their thing and speak their truth is pretty phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01

It really is. I'm like go through my social media and I'm like, oh, there's James that we spoke with 10 years ago. There's Adam. There's Jess. And it's so awesome to again have these people in your circle, which is something that you talk about in your book, actually. Reaching out in adulthood and making sure that you have the circles and the context of authentic relationships.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think it's more important now than ever to maintain those relationships. And I think especially as we continue to talk and delve more into AI and having this artificial component to our lives, our human connection is more important than ever, just from a support standpoint, from a business standpoint, from in every area, every facet of our lives, having those personal connections is what's going to not only keep us grounded, but also make us successful. And so it's more important than ever.

SPEAKER_01

Can you just tell us your story? I know, you know, quick in the bio, but how do you go from being an attorney to being on a real reality TV show to being an author, a keynote speaker, et cetera?

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. I'm going to give you, I'll try to give you the short version of this. But yeah, so I was an attorney. That was my gosh. I'm like, I feel like the years have just completely sped by, but I was an attorney over 10, 12 years ago. And so I left law because I had this idea for a startup company. I intended to practice law and do this startup company. And then all of a sudden, we raised a significant amount in a private placement, and all this responsibility came with it. And so I needed to focus on it. And it was in the dating space. It was this idea before apps existed. And it launched, and then apps came out and made it obsolete pretty much overnight. But what was it supposed to do? It was like an online offline dating idea where people would get cards and then connect online. And so it was just this concept because again, apps didn't exist yet. And so it was either be online or be completely offline. So we were trying to merge the two, and then everything else was.com. Match already existed. So all the sites existed, like the actual desktop sites, but there was no swiping. There were so many apps that can see people in your radius. That never existed, just it was not developed yet. And but it was literally, I think, three months later that they started launched. And you had no idea because these are obviously very secretive things before a launch, especially with something that's so transformative. And but in those three months, we had all of this crazy press because it was a really novel idea. And so we were on the front page of the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Oprah called. I never actually went on Oprah. It was wild. But that's where my TV career started, is because they were inviting me on to talk about the company. And then I, because I could speak on camera, they said, Can you come back and give advice? I'm like, advice about what? I'm a lawyer. I'm running a dating company. They're like, let's talk about relationships and communication and things like that. It started out in that space. And I was like, this is so much fun. I really excited because they did my hair and makeup. And I'm like, I will come back on. And then it was ridiculous. I remember, I think it was the first couple years that I did TV. I was just terrible to say out loud. But within a year, I think I was a dating expert, relationship expert, parenting expert, which asked my kids, that's not true. Legal expert. I don't know if you remember like the Jody Arias case. No. So there it was this case and it was like a murder trial, and they were bringing me on to talk about the legal issue. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, I'll do any TV you give me. And oh, can I just tell a quick story? Yes. I I used to get called for self-defense stuff, but one time I got a call from I think it was CNN, and they asked me, could I talk about a case where a woman killed her boyfriend with a stiletto? And at the time, because I had stiletto. Oh, you had the stilettos. Yes. And I was like, nope, I'll pass this one.

SPEAKER_00

You're like, I'm not gonna give people advice on how to turn their Louutons into weapons. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, I was gonna say you had quite a run on reality television too, and all those TV appearances. So you know how it is. You've seen how this works where one thing turns into another.

SPEAKER_01

That is really cool because I had no idea about that story, first of all. And I wondered where the dating expert comes from.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And that's what happened. So after the apps launched, and we're like, how do we pivot this? We actually got approached by a company that wanted to market us. And the way they wanted me to market the product and our website and everything was through becoming an expert and becoming really, and so they made me become this is so funny too. They said you need to write a book and you need to be a flirting expert. Because that's really what the company was around, flirting. And I'm like, I'm a lawyer running a dating company. Like, this is if this fails, and then all of a sudden I have this out in the marketplace. The next time I'm in front of a jury, they're gonna Google me and be like, what the heck? So it was the kind of an all or nothing moment where I thought, oh shoot, I gotta go all in on this. There's no turning back. And that's what you burned the boat. Well, I did burn, I didn't want to. I didn't want to, but that's where the boat got burned, and that book still exists. I call I don't really call that a book. I wrote it in 10 days. It works. That's really what led to today's show in Good Morning America and Steve Harvey and like all of these things. Like who writes a book in 10 days and then is proud of it? Not me. But this is where we start. And that's what eventually led to Merrida Bursight and having a job on TV.

SPEAKER_01

But somewhere in there, you went back to school and got a master's in psychology.

SPEAKER_00

I did because I I kept thinking, I'm like, people are asking me for advice, and I don't understand. You know what I mean? I wanted to have I always couched it as when I was an attorney, I was really good in mediation. And that's essentially what I was doing on shows or what I was talking about. And a lot of what I talked about, and even the advice I gave before then, was very it's general. Even the stuff I talk about now is not, this isn't clinical psychology. This is general concepts of being a good person and making connections and being good to each other in our communication. And so that's always been the umbrella. But at the same time, I also wanted to learn how to research myself. I wanted to know how to research. I wanted to be able to do proprietary work. And so that's really where I said, okay, I have to go back to school, which was oh my gosh, painful. Can you imagine? I'm sure if you have you got back to school lately, you didn't know.

SPEAKER_01

I got a master's in nutrition in like 2009. So I was an adult adult. It's hard. Very. And at the time I was a personal trainer, so I was it's like, yeah, it wasn't fun.

SPEAKER_00

Just not fun. Your brain works differently when you're out of it. And then when you go back in, and I remember the first class I was taking, I was like, I made a mistake.

SPEAKER_01

So can I get my money back? In fact, I'm still paying. Actually, I still have a loan for my master's too. Anyway, okay, I had a question on that. Okay, back to Married at first sight. So can you tell us? I didn't personally watch this show, but I heard about it. Tell us about it. And the question that I always got about the reality show that I was on is is it real? You know, is it like how much of it is real? How much of it is produced, and that yeah, yeah, because you had the one with Sean in the blanking on his last name.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, D. I was like, how do I forget that? I was like, Sean Hank. What is wrong with me? The brain only gets so much anymore. At the end of the day, I always step back and I say it was such a phenomenal experience, and it provided me such an amazing platform of people and a launch pad that I could not have had otherwise. And for that I'm eternally grateful. Reality shows are interesting, and I think there was definitely so much realness. These were actually real people who got really married and then got really divorced. Legal marriages. I can only speak to the two seasons that I worked on, but I was always very earnest in the process. Like I wanted this, I came at it from a very therapeutic standpoint almost, even though I was never their therapist, where I really wanted to help them and I wanted to help make it work. And these were people who really wanted relationships. They were willing to actually bleakly marry strangers because they were having trouble finding their person. And so it's an interesting show, but there was so much reality. What was your role? I was one of the experts. So I was the person, there were three of us that actually matched people. So we were the decision makers of who actually got married, which is terrifying. Wow. However, I have to say, so from season five, which I think it's like season 18 now, we still have there is a couple, they're happily married, they have two children. Like it it works very it doesn't work all the time. But there are cases where if you make the right match and the people are on the same page and working towards the same goal, I can't see them ever not being together and happy. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, it's wild. So I'm like, I know it's insane. Yeah, they're still together, and there's still people together throughout the show. There's probably five or six couples that are happily married, children.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm just wondering, five or six out of how many people. I don't even know. There might actually be more than that.

SPEAKER_00

I might be lying on that. I as I even say it out loud, I could probably think of five to six that I know, and I never followed the seasons after me.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So it'll be a surprise.

SPEAKER_01

It's always just so fascinating, the world of reality TV show. But let's move on to your more interesting and current work, which is about relatability. So the first book came out a few years ago, and how did that do? What the way I'm looking at the two titles, the relatable leader versus relatable, how to connect with anyone anywhere. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like the first one was more for anyone, and the second one is more about being in the workplace. Yeah, in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00

And funny enough, is Married of First Sight actually led to relatable. So when I left the show, I kept getting these messages saying, Why did you leave? You were such a relatable expert. I'm telling you, they used the same word over and over again to the point where it became evident to me. I was like, there's something here because I wanted to understand why do you feel that way? And so that's actually was the genesis of really studying relatability. Because I thought if I'm like this, I don't want to make it just about how I show up. I want to see how do other people show up. What is relatability?

SPEAKER_01

And so interesting because when you listen to other people speak about you, uh, and this is for everyone out there, just listen to the words that come up often. And to be totally honest with you, that's where this whole badass thing came from. Because the cards and the self-defense, people that always say, that's so badass. And it got to a point where you know what? I'm just gonna lean into this word and take it on.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. I love that you shared that too, because I'm sure there's people out there trying to figure out maybe they're trying to figure out what's their thing, where they're going, like what really represents them. And sometimes it's not us sitting with ourselves thinking, like, I am a badass or I am relatable. It's when other people are like, Oh my gosh, this is how I view you. This is what you can own and be an expert in, and then share with others how to be that way as well. Totally. I mean, ex badassery. Self-proclaimed. No, it was proclaimed by others and then immersed within yourself. And then owned. Imbun. Yes, yes. It's so funny. Okay, sorry. So back, but yeah, so that's really what so relatable started as this idea wow, this is something I could help other people become. Because what I had also seen is there was just this growing level of social anxiety and discomfort. And there's always been fear and embarrassment, and just people are scared to put themselves out there. And I'm not even talking about I saw it so much on the romantic side, but even from the friendship side in the workplace. And so Relatable, the first book was it was really a we call it like a one-to-one, where I was trying to connect with individuals in the world consumer-wise, whereas relatable leader is really talking about more of like people as a whole working with the their teams and things like that.

SPEAKER_01

Both so important. I want to talk about both. But first, just talking about the digital age and why relatability is so important more now than ever. Can you share more about that?

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. I just think we are first of all, the stats on loneliness and disconnection. So the statistic that most people know or have heard, or maybe they haven't heard, which is good for them because they're not depressed on listening to this statistic over and over again is that one in three people are very lonely.

SPEAKER_01

It's so sad.

SPEAKER_00

It makes me so sad. Every time I say it, it just makes me want to cry because I think about, and maybe if it's not you or me or someone that's listening, someone out of your circle feels really lonely. And to me, it's that means you have no one to talk to when things are good, when things are bad. I can't imagine not having a network of humans to help me through the things I do. That's why I'm sane. That's questionable. But that's why I'm able to process through things. And so for me, I'm just watching the world continue to feel so disconnected, even though we have more opportunities than ever. And it's part of the reason why AI scares me a little bit too, is because people are now, especially the lonelier people, are really turning towards AI to have those conversations. And I'm not saying that it can't be a support and a band-aid, but my gosh, if this becomes a replacement, that's frightening.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. I didn't really think of that. And at the same time, like lately, I have been asking AI to give sometimes give me a pep talk. I kid you not.

SPEAKER_00

Fame. Yeah, no, I use it and it's balancing it though. But you still have amazing relationships and you have people around you, but I go to the worst case scenario. And maybe that's the lawyer in me. I was like, where's the liability here? Where I think, oh my gosh, there's someone who probably hasn't had a human conversation in a week and is now having a conversation with chat instead of making the effort to put themselves out there. And as much as AI is super helpful, I use it when I have a complicated situation. Maybe I get a nasty gram and I want to work through it mentally, and I'm not gonna talk to my husband about it. I'll put it through there and I'm like, I need to talk through this and process it. And then I put it away, and then I go back to people and I worry about the people who don't go back to people.

SPEAKER_01

Got it. Yeah, I understand that concern that is. I've been hearing a lot about the male loneliness epidemic, and yet at the same time, I saw a statistic by the CDC a year or two ago about young girls and how like two-thirds of them feel desperation or what was it, hopelessness. I guess that's not the same then. Anyway, yeah, are do you find any gender differences when it comes to relatability?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's universal. I think the male loneliness gets the headlines because we don't talk about it, because uh it's not in terms of feelings, and I think it's been gendered for so long that when you start talking about people actually admitting to it, it's a big deal. And so for me, I think it's always been there. It just hasn't been addressed. No. My husband always says he's like, you write these books, he's like, I'm gonna write the male approach, which is push it down. You're not publishing a book called Push It Down. But that's what they do. We don't need to encourage that, but there's so much around just the way that they process emotion. That's how it's been told. I think it's a problem for everyone.

SPEAKER_01

I I see it in my own life, uh, just as far as I have this pack of women that I can process things, talk about the highs and the lows, and all of it's on the table. Like I don't not share the lows. And then I look at like my husband and his friends and the wives. We all kind of joke around that they'll talk about surfboards, bikes, vans.

SPEAKER_00

Like the shoes or the cars?

SPEAKER_01

The cars, like an intervan or a van you can live in. Vans, like the slip-on shoes, or it's like they can just talk about that. Come back home, and I'll be like, so how's their divorce going or how's this? Oh, I didn't you didn't talk about it.

SPEAKER_00

Really like he's getting divorced.

SPEAKER_01

And it's like they know nothing about personal lives, and I'm just like, wow, that is so interesting. Yeah, what talk us through some pointers on how we can be more relatable. From do you want to start talking about the first book, the second book? Sure.

SPEAKER_00

As long as we don't talk about the first book. Um it's all the same principles at the end of the day in terms of connection, but it is all those and in terms of the first book and really building connections. For me, it's looking at how we show up. At the end of the day, that's what relatability is. And to the broad strokes of it is how am I showing up? How am I showing up in a way that people can actually see who I am? How am I showing up and allowing this mask of perfection to just let it go? And I know we talk about authenticity a lot. And I swear it's a buzzword that most people want to die, but at the same time, it's it is it's showing up as our real selves, but then it's also how are we being present? And I think there's a just an intentionality to what we can be and who we can be when we're looking to make those connections. And for me, that's what relatability is as a whole, is having intentionality in how we show up and making sure that we're showing up with our full self and then also supporting the person in front of you. Because half the time people are like, I'm introverted, or I don't want to share too much about myself, or I don't know what questions to ask, or I don't know how to be. And sometimes you don't even have to be anything except for pregnant. And so how can you even use that? And I think there's so many baby steps. That's the beauty of it. And these are all in that first book where it's pick one, just pick one and see how that starts to shift things, and then maybe add on like a recipe and then see where you end up.

SPEAKER_01

Like some examples, can you give us?

SPEAKER_00

Sure. And honestly, one of my favorite ones, and I talk about this in both books, is curious listening, is where when you are intentionally connecting with someone, and instead of just listening to reply or to ask the next question, getting really curious about someone else. And even for my introverts, where it's difficult to sometimes put yourself out there, it's less difficult to pay attention to somebody and say, Jen, what's going on? And oh, tell me more about the art about Assery, or tell me more about where you live or what you like to do, and get the other person talking because the research shows time and time again, the person who's speaking the most in the conversation actually ranks at the highest. So you don't even have to talk, barely have to say anything. So I think it's such a hack for anyone to say, next conversation you have, don't talk as much. Ask a question. What are you doing this weekend?

SPEAKER_01

So brilliant. And I think you said three words that I just want to point out, which is tell me more. That right there is such a beautiful way to again just shut your mouth, pull information out of the person, whether you're in sales, so this is great for salespeople, it's great for dating, it's literally great for any type of relationship you're trying to build, right?

SPEAKER_00

I've never seen this not work. I've never seen it because as you and I both know, and just because we're more on this professional and self-development side of life, people want to be seen and heard. They want people to witness them. And what better way to do that than to pay attention to what they're saying and be invested in it? Because that's what tell me more says is oh, I'm not done yet. Give me more of you. Let me see more of you.

SPEAKER_01

It reminds me of my dad. He was the like chief question asker.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01

If you came to our house, he would just sit there and be like, What's your name? What's your last name? How do you spell that? Where does that come from in the world? What's your background? How were you raised? He would get So curious. Some people would come out of those questions feeling like whiplash.

SPEAKER_00

There's a balance. Yeah, because I always say this isn't a deposition. I'm not interrogating them, but you're asking them questions. Retired detectives interrogating them. Could you just place your thumb here and here?

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, the beauty of it, which is what you said, is people felt seen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And especially like introverted people that aren't used to sharing a lot about themselves. I think it's so beautiful. So tell us where that can how that can help us in the corporate world at or where we were, regardless of what it is, how we can be a better leader.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And that all plays into everything that in the related leader as well is really helping people feel like they matter.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

To give some background. I didn't intend to write this book. It was one of those where I was like, oh shoot, I think I have to do this because I wanted to research. So I ended up doing a research study around what teams are really looking for. Because I was going to use it for a keynote. I got the research back and it was shocking because in our world, you have so many thought leaders that talk about leadership and we're talking about vulnerability and authenticity and kind of these big emotional intelligence ideas. This is how you have to be as a leader. So we think that's what we have to focus on. The research came back if people wanted respect. Like respect was the number one trait that every generation was looking for. And I had the same response to be respected. And to me, I was like, holy moly, like we have jumped the gun. And I say this oftentimes, I was like, I felt like we were in my head. And when I looked at it, because it was respect and trust and some communication was at the top five. I thought, we're trying to build a house on a foundation that doesn't exist. We're trying to build emotional intelligence and vulnerability and often, which are all really important things. If you've already established the respect, but you and I both know that people are saying that this is what I'm looking for, typically because they're not getting it. And so for me, act of listening plays into that. Like obviously, everything that how we show up can be an act of respect. And if you're not giving that, then people don't feel respected and then they don't feel connected and then they leave.

SPEAKER_01

Can you tell say more about respect? Because this is a topic that doesn't come up a lot. Why people not feel respected and how we can help people feel more respected.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think again, it's the antithesis of what we were just talking about of feeling seen and heard. They don't feel seen and heard. They don't feel like what they say matters. They don't feel like they matter. And I came across in my research a quote that gives me goosebumps every time I say it is respect is the manifestation of believing another person has value. Wow, that is amazing. And I think if only every interaction that we have, we believe that this person has value, no matter what their station is, what their ability to give me anything is, or not give me anything, or contribute to my success or growth or whatever, just believing that they have value. And I think that's at the end of the day, if I say nothing else, if people do nothing else and we focus on that as like a North Star, you win. We all win.

SPEAKER_01

There's a question that's like bubbling up in my brain, and I don't know how to say it yet, but it's okay, I get that. And it sometimes people don't feel worthy of respect. And do you find it ever that there's certain people that just will never see that people are respecting them or don't value their time or their energy or resources because they themselves don't feel worthy of it?

SPEAKER_00

Sure. And that can absolutely happen because the limb that they're looking through, yeah, I always say you're gonna find what you search for. And so if that's what you believe, and the only person that can help them is them. That's something I that beyond a kind of my pay grade. Uh I everybody's always asking, like, how can I make somebody else better? How can I change someone else? And whether we're talking romantic relationships or professional relationships. I had this question yesterday, I gave a keynote, and people are coming up to me afterwards, like, how do I change this person? How do I make them less nasty or how do I do this? And I'm like, you can't. You can only control yourself, respect worthy. All you can do is point them out and remind them that you are worthy of this and allow them to see this is why I do this or spell it out a little bit. But at the end of the day, that's an internal thing. The unfortunate thing is that people who probably don't feel like they are worthy may not be looking inward to figure out where that comes from or recognize that it comes from within.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe there's something about asking a person, what would it look like to you to be to feel respected? And then being able to foster whatever that thing is for that person.

SPEAKER_00

But that's a whole yeah, and thinking about it too, from a asking that's a great question. It's so perfect, because it also translates into the reason why they don't feel that way could be from something that you have no idea of, an experience they had, or something from childhood to adulthood, or there's all of these things that lead up to the way that we feel about a situation. So allowing them when asking, which is honestly something I say all the time, is ask the question. Like if you're having an issue with someone, especially as a leader, ask the questions like, how do you feel this? Like, how do you feel most respected? How do you feel like I can communicate the best with you? How can I help you trust me more? All of those things, they're all questions that we can ask. We just don't. Curiosity. We don't want to hear the answer or we don't want to do the work behind the answer.

SPEAKER_01

Curiosity, ask more questions. I love questions.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, you have a podcast. Exactly. Which brings me to another question, which is the three keys of being a relatable leader. Will you share those with us?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so it I actually have the same framework for relatability in general as I do for relatable leader. It's just the kind of the nuances of unchange. And it's always connect, communicate, inspire. And I call it kakai.

SPEAKER_01

Like sounds Hawaiian.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. But it's really connection, is like, how do I dial in? How do I become more real with people? Very similar, whether you're talking leadership or personal, and then communication is how do I effectively communicate? How do I get my communication for land? How do I make sure that I'm showing up? How do I ask those questions? How do I actively listen? And then in buyers, especially for leaders, the research is, I'm not the only person talking about this. I'm pretty sure it's been talked about the last decade before I got there is just how important purpose is and how important the purpose and our intentionality around our work is. And so all of those together, it sounds like a lot though. When you say it out loud, you're like, just do all of these things. So why don't we try one? I believe in that is taking one or two of those things and saying, I'm gonna put this with my team and see where it goes, or I'm gonna try this in my personal life or my relationships and see where it goes.

SPEAKER_01

Great. And I asked for examples of what those things were. So the Kakai is like the menu idol of and then you have different menu items almost. Sure. Yeah. One of them was being more curious and asking more questions. Can you share a couple others? So like good takeaways for us that we can try on and be like, I am gonna try this for the weekend, maybe.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Especially with leadership, but I so one of my favorite things, especially from a leadership perspective, is sharing parts of your story. Like you just said to me before, you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't know this background. That's interesting from your team's perspective too. Like, where did you come from? Did you just fall out of the sky and all of a sudden you're my leader, my boss now? Like, where did this happen? Tell me about your journey, but also tell me about the pitfalls of your journey too. Like, tell me about your mistakes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That's what so when I was prepping for this interview, for me, relatability kept coming back to that fact. I don't want to see this glossy image. Everything's perfect. She always looks so perfect, perfect. To me, that's not relatable. Um at least you're 30 under 30 Forbes list, blah, blah, blah. It's like I gloss over it. I can't even believe. I want to know, Rachel. The fact that you shared your startup failure story with me, automatically, I was even more drawn to you. And that's why I started this podcast because I was getting so tired of the social media gloss over.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I kind of and we all have the stories.

SPEAKER_01

We all have these failures, challenges, obstacles, you name them. The most successful people always have failures before that. So that to me is relatability. And I was wondering, my question for you is what feels relatable to me different to other people, or are there general things like that?

SPEAKER_00

I think you're on point. Relatability is I want to see myself in another person. I want to feel like I can connect with them. I want to feel like they're worthy of my energy and investment. We talked about worthiness of receiving, but I think relatability is I always distinguish it with likable. I think likable is awesome and likability is important, but likable doesn't necessarily get an investment of my energy. I can like from afar. But if I'm going to relate to someone or I'm going to feel like they're relatable, that's somebody that I actually want to connect with. And so I think it makes you more worthy of connection when you are a little bit more relatable. And again, it's sharing all of those different parts of ourselves. And it's the same thing whether we're talking about a leader or a person. Let's get real. There's perfection's not real. Why would we keep that social media go off if we're having a real conversation?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my goodness. So what are can you share like a story either from the book or a real life story of you going into a company, a great success story, if you will, of using these con the katai comment and how it shows up?

SPEAKER_00

You know, actually, one of the one that was so cool for me because it was a return home. So I was a lawyer. I after I graduated law school, I was a clerk at one of the local courthouses. You can you know, work for a judge for a year for pennies, and but it's just such a cool experience. And so you can only do it for one year. You can only do it when you just graduate. There's so many rules around it. So it's really a cool experience. After you leave there, you go work in a firm. And so I left the law, my gosh, in 2010. So this is 15 years ago. I stopped being a lawyer. I spoke for the New Jersey judiciary, I think seven times this year. And I'm speaking to the judges. I actually taught at judicial college, and it's all of the judges. I even knew some, most of them have retired at this point because it didn't mean years six.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I've had the honor of keep going back and speaking to the judges and talking about leadership. And it's the coolest thing. One of the judges came back, they saw me speak last November. They said, I started to do these little things. And like I said, we don't have to do, there's a lot of stuff in here that you can do, and there's a lot of to-dos in here. But she took one thing and she was like, I started having more conversations. I did intentional conversations once a week. We have, we call it tea time, and they have tea and they hang out. And she said, it shifted everything because there's this weird perception. And most people that understand if you've ever been to a courthouse in your life, it can feel really intimidated. Judges feel like an entirely different enemy. Or if you've ever seen Judge Judy, she's locked up in a box. Like they feel so separate from us. And at the end of the day, she became more human. And all of a sudden, they started to work better together. And I was like, it's such a little thing. And she was so grateful. She's like, it changed the energy of the entire chambers, it changed the output, it changed how we work together. And that's just the one that like sticks out in my head because it's such an honor to have had that opportunity, but to also see, oh my gosh, this making an impact in somewhere that I'd never imagined to be able to even touch or talk to.

SPEAKER_01

That sounds cool. Yes. I just keep going back to the menu item. And I know we're about to wrap, but can you leave us with almost like a rapid fire, like five things that we can think on, noodle on, and say, I try one of these? And we already covered a few, so we got curiosity.

SPEAKER_00

You know what we're thinking in terms of communication? Because communication, I think, is some of the stats are like it's 86% of our problems, and especially in the corporate world, but I think it's pretty much everywhere. And so I call this like the who, how, why. So it's a really quick framework of who am I talking to? How am I actually expressing it? How do they best receive it? Because sometimes it's just whatever's easiest for you. But hey, guess what? Email doesn't always land the same as a phone call or a text message with emoji or whatever it is, and then the why of that message. And I think so much communication could be so much better if we actually thought through who am I talking to, how am I doing it, why am I having this conversation. And the last hack that I think is really awesome and something I try to use for everything is just being more intentional, like how you show up. And I think we're so often on autopilot that when we shift to some sort of intentionality in our conversation, in our meetings, in our podcasts, and how we actually present ourselves, it changes how we speak, it changes what we say and our element.

SPEAKER_01

Could you just give us a little takeaway of what are we doing right now? What can we do right now? Living in this most divisive time with friends, with neighbors, with coworkers, with family members that are that we have it almost feels like we have such completely opposite ideas, values, beliefs, etc. And yet we all still want to maintain our relationships. Yeah. Any advice on what to do right now in these divisive times?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. And I think what will bring us back together is when we focus on what we do have in common, when we focus on the things that I can see myself in other people. And I do this as an exercise sometimes where I'll have people find things really quickly that they have in common, complete strangers, but you see that conversation want to keep going because they found the things that are similar versus focusing on the things that are unalike. We're not getting out of this. This is not shifting overnight. And there's people around us that we love or respect, or we want to get to know, or we want to become friends with, we want to do business with is avoiding those conversations because at the end of the day, if you're here and here, we're not going to get here based on you trying to convince them. So allow those to exist in the ethers. But what do you have in common? What are the values that are similar? What are the, and maybe there aren't any, and then this isn't a person that you need to become close with. You can still do business with, but what are the things that are aligned? I always say, think about in in COVID when we had all those buzzfeed quizzes, right? Where you're like, what character in the office are you? Or what Bucky, the vampire slayer character are you? So we were all doing those. And it wasn't because we thought that we were Samantha, it's because we wanted to see ourselves in somebody else because it makes us feel like we're connected. It's the same thing in real life. We want to see what how can I see myself in you? And the minute that I find we could have completely different political ideas, and yet I could be like, Jen, I think you're a badass, or I love, I love that you love the beach, or whatever it is that I can say, okay, there's something here to pull from. And if we focus on that, then the rest of it becomes manageable and bearable and possibly advisable, not a real word. Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Thank you for that advice because we all need some of that right now. And we're gonna need it going forward. So thank you for all your wisdom. I can't wait to read your both of your books. I need to get the first one. I'm gonna do that right as soon as we hang up. And before you tell everyone where we can find you, connect with you. I have four rapid fire questions that I ask everyone. Arguably. What was your favorite food when you were a kid?

SPEAKER_00

Pasta.

SPEAKER_01

Two, if you could have a drink with anyone alive or dead, who would it be? What's in your cup?

SPEAKER_00

This is a weird thing, and I'm gonna go with what came to mind immediately. And it's strange because I am not religious, but I was like, Jesus, let's go hang out with Jesus. And obviously it's wine. Why? Because and I can't believe it hasn't come up in the last 40 interviews.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

What's your most besides yours? What's your favorite self-help personal development book that you've read?

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, I was like, I have so many up there that I'm like, I know who's who's I love that was one of the most more recent ones because I'm so bad. I love fiction books and I don't read a ton of professional development or personal film, which is terrible. But I love Jess Extrums, Chasing the Bright Side. Just awesome. And keeping that perspective is everything. And I just think we need that reminder quite often.

SPEAKER_01

And we both know Jess personally.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And last but not least, what's your favorite hype song?

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh. I don't even know. I've switched because I used to have a Seven Nation Army thing where I was like, This thing gets me all pumped up, and then I went into an MM phase, but these are more like workouts, so I think that is still my hype song. I just can't play it like publicly when I'm walking on stage. Or can I? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Judy Holler, do you know Judy Holler? She plays MM. That's how you can do it. Gosh, it's awesome. Now that makes sense. The music and the beat behind it. Awesome. Thank you so much, Rachel. Now share it with everyone, please, where we can find you.

SPEAKER_00

I am Rachel Dialto everywhere. Literally, website, all social media channels. So pretty consistent. And the books? Yeah. And the books, Amazon, anywhere.

SPEAKER_01

Books are sold. Wonderful. All right, everyone. Again, thank you, Rachel, for coming on. Everyone, thanks out there for listening. If you like this podcast, please do me a favor, subscribe, and leave us a rating and a review. Let us know what you think. Connect with both of us on social media and let us know what you think of this episode. And if you have any questions, thank you so much. I love you. I love you for listening. And I love you for being you. So thank you and have a great day. See you next time.