41 | From Drinking to Deadlifts: How Women can Reclaim their Power with Anne Marie Chaker

What does it really take to transform your life, from rock bottom to peak strength, both mentally and physically?

In this powerful episode of The Art of Badassery podcast, host Jenn Cassetta sits down with veteran journalist and professional bodybuilder Anne Marie Chaker. Annemarie opens up about her journey from battling postpartum depression and alcohol addiction to finding healing and empowerment through the world of bodybuilding. She shares wisdom from her book Lift, unpacks the societal pressures placed on women’s bodies, and makes a compelling case for why strength training is about so much more than muscle. This conversation is a must-listen for any woman ready to reclaim her power and write a new chapter.

Connect with AnneMarie Chaker:

• Anne Marie’s website = https://annemariechaker.substack.com/
• Anne Marie Chaker’s Book Lift: How Women Can Reclaim Their Physical Power and Transform Their Lives

Links Mentioned: 

• The Art of Badassery Nutrition Guide

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hi there, I'm Jen Cassetta, your Chief Badassery Officer. If you're feeling drained, hesitant, stuck in self-doubt, or you just have a case of the vlog, the Art of Badassery podcast is here to help you unleash your mojo once and for all. We'll provide you with tips, techniques, and real-life examples of how you can kick ass in all areas of your life. You'll learn how to flex your mental muscles, rise above fears, and turn setbacks into superpowers. So let's enter the dojo and let's get to work. Welcome to the Art of Badasserie podcast. I'm Jen Cassetta, your chief badassery officer. And today I have a very special guest. Her name is Anne Marie Chaker, and I'm so excited for you to get to know her. Let me read you a little bit about Anne Marie first. Anne Marie is a veteran journalist and professional bodybuilder. During her two-decade career at the Wall Street Journal, she held reporting jobs all over the paper, from the journal's regional editions to the spot news desk during the September 11th attack. She has covered everything from politics to news events, consumer trends, education, the workplace, and the major sociological shifts of our time. Her article, I never thought I'd write this, I am a female bodybuilder, has generated more than 500,000 views since it was published in 2020. Anne Marie's book, called Lift, How Women Can Reclaim Their Physical Power and Transform Their Lives, is about to launch on June 17th. And depending on when this podcast airs, it may already be out. So you can run to your local bookstore to grab a copy as soon as we're done. Welcome to the show, Anne-Marie. Hey, Tom, thanks so much. Yes, I'm excited to meet you. I know we officially met, so how we met was through our speaker managers, connected and the great Stevie. Exactly. Love. Thanks for hooking us up, Stevie. And then Amy connected us. That's how it happened. But when I heard about lift and bodybuilding and strength and power, obviously those are my magic words. So badassy is about being a strong, powerful woman, regardless of what's happening in the world, in our lives at the moment, etc. Right? How do we keep moving on? And you are a black belt in badassery because you are, because you share your story and you share not just your success, but your struggles. So can we start with the origin story of how you got started? What made you get into bodybuilding in the first place? Where were you in your life?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Oh, I'm so glad you said that because I think like we focused a lot on social media and stuff, like we want to show the shiny. And it's really important to show your scars. I feel like people really connect with that.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

And I will just say I've had guests that don't do that, even though I say this is what being a black belt is about, and I'll say, What are your what are the struggles you've been through? And people will be like, Oh, imposter syndrome. I'm like, bullshit. We all have imposter syndrome. The story is the most interesting part.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

So if you be so brave, this book was born of a time in my life where the shit really hit the fan. I had recently had a baby and was really struggling with postpartum depression, which I had with my first as well. But I thought I wouldn't have it with the second, but I really had it with the second too. It's just hard. And my father, two weeks after the baby was born, died suddenly of a heart attack while walking the dog. So my folks lived just a couple doors down. And it just felt like I was living a nightmare. A few weeks after that, my marriage ended. And oh my goodness. Yeah. So it was just like every truth in my life was like had been upended.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

And so when I say sorry, can I ask a personal question? Your your marriage was it on the rocks for before. Okay. Yes, got it. After your father dies is a yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

I could not sleep, basically, which is a symptom of depression, lack of being able to sleep. But I think I counted something like 11 days of literally not being able to sleep, which sounds insane. And there was a night where a neighbor came over to my house and telling them about the sleep and said, just take a half a glass of something before you go to bed, it'll help you sleep. I'd never been much of a drinker before, but that half a glass turned into a full glass. And then it was just all the time. I became very quickly addicted to the stuff. Wow. And this went on for the better part of a year or so. I just craved it all the time. And all of this came to a head when I took my daughter to an ice hockey tournament in Ocean City, Maryland. And I packed my hockey bags, the stroller, my mom came. And I remember being in the car going to this tournament thinking, I cannot wait to get there to have a drink. Wow. And it was like this twitchy feeling. So I knew, like in that car, like I have a serious problem.

unknown 5:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

So I get to the hockey tournament. Think good once you had that realization. Yeah. Yeah. It was this very salient moment. And I get to the tournament and unload the stuff, and there was like a little wellness room. And for some reason, like I poked my head in the wellness room. In there was this hockey mom, and she was just crushing her workout. She was pushing barbells and dumbbells and pulling bands and doing things like I'd never seen a hockey mom do before. But she was totally committed to this cause and she looked freaking amazing. It wasn't because she was thin, but it was because she was ripped and knew what she was doing. She approached she was sweating and she was lit from within, right? I was looking at her, whatever that holding it is um, give me some of that. So I went up to her being a journalist. I was like, What's your deal? What's your story? What do you do? And she said, No, I do bodybuilding competitions. And I thought, that sounds weird, but I was intrigued. And she talked about how she has this coach and tracks macros and bikini competitions. So anyway, I thought, that's interesting, whatever. Give me the name of your coach. You look amazing. I think I have a drinking problem. I look terrible. So I go home and the name of this coach was in my inbox, so I reached out to her. So that's where it started. Started working with this retired bodybuilder in Bowie, Maryland, named Tina Peratino, who set me on the path to righteousness.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

That was interesting, Jen, if I may, was how it started was she just asked me to track what I was eating. Okay. And we found that I was basically going from coffee in the morning to eating whatever crap came off my kids' plates, chicken nuggets or whatever, to wine. So she was like, You're not eating enough. What are you eating? She started upping like upping my calories and making me like really eat. And protein was a big deal. And so just like really paying attention to the food. And then she sat me on some workout. She's had me go into the gym and lifting heavy weights, no cardio, but lifting heavy weights. So the combination of food and eating plentifully and lifting is like this transformative thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

I've had plenty of clients over the years that I've had to come to that realization like you're actually not eating enough. You're not eating enough nutrients. Right. But you're actually not eating enough protein, enough fat, enough of these things that we need to for our brain health, for our focus, for our energy, all of it. And of course, for our physique. But that's such a reframe for a lot of people, especially women, that we think we have to eat less. We've been conditioned to think of eating less.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

And it's not our fault. Like it's the thing. The messages have been ingrained in us from the moment we're born. You go to a grocery store, everything's about fins. They pass a Pilates studio, it's all about lengthening and lean. And it's we get it's like the color of paint on the wall. Like you stop seeing it. So we're it and it's never enough. Like, right, never be. That's the problem with this message, and as better than anyone, that like what happens to young women is that they they start to develop eating disorder because it just feels like they're not thin enough. It's never enough, and self-punishment, and it's a cycle that many of us, including myself, would have put ourselves through.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Well, that's why I was so interested in reading the introduction to your book and the first chapter called The Story of Skinny, how we got the idea we were supposed to be thin. So I was like, wow, what a great way to frame that. And uh, knock on wood. I just it didn't take as much. And of course, I probably went the other direction with I had to burn calories. I was more about that, like uh in martial arts. Like I have this one cringy memory of I used to teach these classes on Thanksgiving morning in New York City at the dojo, and they were open to anyone, so not just martial artists. And I would be like, Okay, everyone, we have to burn 800 calories of interest because then you can go and enjoy your Thanksgiving with no guilt. It was definitely ingrained in me, but I did more in that way, less in restriction. Not to say one is better than the other, trust me. But I'm but again, I'm lucky that I didn't it didn't consume me. And then I really got into health and well-being. And obviously, when I went to Institute for Integrative Nutrition in 2005, I really learned about healthy food and why we need so much of it. So that was the great reframe for me. It was like, oh no, I need greens on my plate, I need olive oil, I need more protein, I need all this stuff, whether it's high in calories or not, I just didn't care. And that's how I then I started working with my clients. But anyway, it's a retraining, reframing for a lot of folks. So take us back. What is the story of skinny? Why are we all trained like this?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

I believe from like the four years of research that I'd done on this, because it really fascinated me, right? And my like little sample size of one that like this combination of food and lifting and like building, rebuilding a body that looked like an athlete and had muscle on it, it reshaped my life. So like it was within weeks, I naturally stopped gravitating to alcohol. I think because I felt so good, like I just didn't really need it. I was getting the highs from other things.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Okay. Again, so many people think it has to be an all or nothing thing, but frequently naturally faded away. The need for naturally faded away.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

So once I started eating well and lifting, I just like endorphins, I felt good, I felt nourished, like I just didn't really need it. But it wasn't only that, it was that like I started sitting up straighter and even my voice changed. Like I could hear it when I was on the phone, like I was just like speaking with more confidence. Yeah. And I just got cut from lifting weights, right? Yeah, I came back to my desk and I'm feeling good. I could hear it in my voice. I so I started kicking ass at work. What what age were you at this time? Mid-40s. Okay. I was saying, yeah, I was in my mid-40s. Yeah. And I started taking care of like putting lipstick on, and I set up a match.com profile. I started like dating again. And it's just like the journalist in me was like, This is so obvious. This is so obvious that something has happened here. I started wearing a two-piece swimsuit again, which I'd never really worn before. So the journalist in me really wanted to dive deep. That this was so counterintuitive that more food and like lifting heavy, which are things like I'd been counseling to do my whole life, were sudden was suddenly leading me to look better. So all this made me want to dig deep in what the skinny thing was, right? Like, where did this even come to? It was clearly not the best thing for us. Right. So I found that there was a time when women were larger women before I'd say 1870 were considered more affluent. What uh it particularly in times of famine, like the larger woman was considered more beautiful. Yeah. And then what followed was then you started hearing more about corpulence. Suddenly there was as food became more plentiful and everybody had access to it, you started hearing a little bit more about corpulence, like in the literature. There was some cautionary feelings about the too much of it. And there was also a religious component to it, or that staring with Graham, the creator of the Graham Cracker, was one of the first, that was one of the first leaders who taught women to to diet and eat less, that it was virtuous to and actually the reason for the Graham Cracker was he created this like whole grain flour that was meant to be like virtuous, and there was a cracker and bread made out of it. And then you have the then there were diet, but so like gradually some prepared just the more plentifulness of food and all of these kind of cultural like movements that kind of built on one another one after the other. But the thing that really fascinated me was the work of this archaeologist out of Cambridge who showed that she actually was one of the first ones to show that women's bones, early like Paleolithic women's bones, were the size of Olympic rowers today. So this discovery, she said, laid the ground on work that women, like this upended the whole notion of the hunter-gatherer, right? That men were the ones hunting and killing for food while the women were like gathering berries in the field. Yeah. So she showed that the bone structure of these early women proved that they were lifting heavy things, that they were an integral part of the agricultural story, and that they were killing it. So this idea and women hunted, they also hunted the OG woman was a buff that ass. So it confounded me. Like, where what happened? How did we, how did like modernity veer so far from this body that we were clearly supposed to inhabit? And that I felt better in.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Well, if I was just in Italy and in all the museums and the artwork, women back in the day, they were in larger bodies than we're used to seeing in artwork today in the media.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

And it's a fairly recent, like even looking back at like dress sizes and Marilyn Monroe and women in those days were far more. There's a study in the book that looks at sportsilla straight and swimsuit covers and just shows how dramatically the ideal body went from the 60s, 70s, 80s. If you look at Linda Carter in Wonder Woman, it's just shocking at how in the last 30 years, how much thinner and more emaciated the ideal body has gotten.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Again, um, it's all about the filters that we look through. And I think, especially when we're young, we're so susceptible to society and ideals and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

We want to please. That's our nature. We're conditioned to be good girls and quiet, and we want to please the other.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

And what's happening now, which is sad, I'm reading and I'm watching. So I follow this woman, Katie Wilcox, and she has a modeling agency for plus size women. And she is talking about how the businesses now are going back to skinny is better, skinny is good, and her models are not getting booked as much as they were in the previous, say, five, 10 years, where there was this resurgence of all bodies are beautiful, diverse bodies, and now again they're going to smaller is better. But we have to look at the trends as well. So if this is trending in a way where it's now becoming dangerous again to young girls, and young girls are that were just coming around the corner to think that they can accept their bodies, now are like, oh, the Kardashians are now skinny again. In your book, you talked about you were one of those young women that was counting calories and having all the low fat and counting your fat grams and all of that.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

So knowing that, and now this transformation of being this athlete, and I'm not gonna lie, because I track macros for my sport, it's something I gotta do. Like my girls see me weigh my food. And we've talked about it. And I always couch it as mommy needs a lot of protein. She wants to make sure she's getting enough protein because her protein is really important for building muscles, and muscles are good.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

But I think the goal, especially if you're around impressionable young people, not just girls, but young people, it's important to keep what we were doing, I think, before this, which was promoting diverse bodies, strong bodies, promoting the idea that healthy it can be fit and strong, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:20

But it's not about fat versus thin, right? Like live in this like dichotomy, like everything in American culture is gotta be one thing or the other thing. And there's gotta be this magic bullet. Like now it's like creatine. Like everybody's like, oh, creatine. There's no there's no magic bullet, it's not all one thing. Like, you can have a high BMI. I love, I don't know if you follow her, Alana Marr, the movie player from the Olympics. She's amazing, she has like this amazing body, and she's so boff and strong, and she she shows it off on the cover of Sports Illustrated. She talks about she has a high BMI, and and like this is her bite, and this is called strong, and I'm a pro athlete. Like, such a great Rowan Lonnell, and it's it doesn't have to be like a well body doesn't have to look like just one thing. But what I think is also important is that people need to also be aware of building keeping on top of their strength and not losing muscle, lose muscle really easily. And muscle is like the secret sauce to life, especially for women, because it's the thing that protects the bone, it's the thing that will help us live a longer and better quality of life.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Let's talk about muscle a little bit more than like the benefits of strength training, because I say it till I'm blue in the face with my clients or my women friends or people that are asking for my advice these days. I'm just like lift weights, lift heavy weights, not like these little three-pound things. Yeah. A pair of 15-pound dumbbells or whatever it's gonna be and lift heavy weights because it makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

And there's no magic number too, right? The key is to push your muscle to fatigue. So think of it as a scale from one to 10. If you are hitting like an eight or a nine, right? Meaning like you could do two more reps, maybe one more rep, then you are doing a good job. Push yourself to really fatigue your muscles, and you don't get like a ton of stuff. There's so much nonsense being marketed right now. Like I have in the basement a bench, and I do think you need a bench, but you can get those like for a hundred bucks or less. A few sets of dumbbells, some bands, and really that's pretty much it. It's nice to have a kettlebell, but I have a rack, like probably a squat rack would be good. But you can go on Craigslist and get the stuff, right? Just dumbbells and a bench.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

And literally that for me has been enough. I am looking into this new gym that just opened in Santa Monica called Fred, and it's basically all machines. And I'll tell you why I'm gonna do the machines. I've been doing free weights, which I love, and I think it's really great for different compound movements and functional fitness. I have the hip replacement and different joint issues. I want to just get in a gym where I don't have to do a class with people, but I want to do the big circuits, and it's this AI gym. So it spits out, you do all these little tests in front of it. It gives you your biological age. You wear this little watch thing and you tag it to each machine that you get on. It's all set up with your personalized program, and then you just go from machine to machine, and it'll make you do as many reps as in your program and the weight. You don't have to touch anything, you don't have to readjust the weight. It's super cool. I'm like, if this is the future gym, like I'm in.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

I get it. The AI stuff is interesting. I've liked on my Instagram feed. I've seen some but.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

All that to say for everyone out there who's just starting out, you do not mean that you just need a bench.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

But you made a good point too, which I want to say. No, what kind of person, like I do think like it's great to have stuff at home, right? But gyms are also really wonderful spaces to feel like you're part of a community. If you're working from home, people, you have more space, there's more stuff. And so I like the mix of both. On most days, I prefer to go to a gym just because I like to get out of the house and the space where I see people, I get it done, everything is there. But on really cold days or days where I'm pressed for time and I or just can't I like having the stuff at home and being able to just knock it out at home.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

There's a lot of people that are intimidated by the gym. So what advice would you give to those people?

SPEAKER_01 22:48

It's like women. It's easy for us to be intimidated again because we've been conditioned to go over to the cardio machines and the men are over there and they're grunting, and some of them are assholes who look at you funny. I've started making a point, and I would encourage women to do this as well, is to be the weirdo that goes up to one another and just be like, Hey, I'm Anne-Marie. What's your name? I'll get to meet you. What are you doing? I want to see all women like strut around a gym doing a double bicep pose. Maybe we're not there yet, maybe in a few years.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

We could try it. But before we start to wrap, I would just want to make sure that we hit all of the things, the benefits of strength training, especially for women their 40s that are heading into perimenopause. This is the advice that we keep hearing. Get in the gym, lift those heavy weights. Why? What does muscle building do for us as we age?

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Okay. So I was just at this women's CEO powwow, and I was talking with the great Joanna Strober, who's the CEO of MIDI Health, which is a menopause telehealth company. And she was saying, Have you noticed this? That women who are older, who have more meat on their bones, actually look better than the thin ones. And I was like, totally. It's because you have a more athletic frame. Like an athlete moves better, she's less likely to break apart as she gets older because muscle is the ultimate protector of bone. And osteoporosis and osteopenia is the thing that happens to women in particular as they get older. Their bones become more fragile, they're more susceptible to falls, to hurting themselves. And it is a big reason why women decline. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

So And I know women in their 60s that have osteopenia already absolutely bones are already starting to get softer. So getting into the gym lifting weights is so important.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

And it's not only for the body, which is like important, but it's for the mind too, right? So there are all these cool studies on the brain health of lifting weights. One study that comes to mind was I've been thinking about this because my memory is flailing as I get older, but there was this study about just doing one set of leg extension. It was like half the room did these leg extensions, just one set, and then the other half didn't do them. And there was a memory exercise where the people in the study were asked to remember what was on certain cards. And the people that had done this one leg extension exercise remembered the cards better than the group that didn't.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

I like the way JJ Virgin explains it. I'm gonna say it, I'm paraphrasing what I've heard her say, which is muscle does two things. It acts as a sponge for sugar. So the minute you start to eat carbohydrates or sugar, your muscles are going to start to use the glycogen, the sugar that's already stored in the muscles, for fuel. Muscle acts like a sponge, a sugar sponge in the body. Essentially, your glycogen, the sugar that's stored in your muscles, is used for fuels. So the minute that you start thinking, your brain needs that sugar to burn. The minute you start moving, your body needs that fuel used up. Then all of a sudden, the muscles are gonna grab that blood sugar and store it again. So it acts like a sponge, right? Sugar and carbohydrates. But two, it acts like a girdle on the body. So it tightens everything up and it's gonna protect a frame. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Provides a frame. It also shows how stupid it is to cut carbs. It's so important for muscle building. Yeah. Carbs. Broccoli is a carb. Like it's so exactly. If you're grabbing a salad, guess what? You're grabbing carbs. It's like these all or nothing ideas that we get hit with in marketing are just so dumb.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

With that said, can I ask you how much protein that you eat on a regular basis?

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Sure. I would say, like right now, 125, 130.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

100 grams per day for everyone out there. I don't come close to that because it would take me so much to eat that. So it's hard for me as a nutritionist to advise that. But if you are bodybuilding, obviously, that is like what your goal and your focus is. And at the same time, I'm listening to all these menopause experts, perimenopause experts, and they're recommending that much. And in my head, I'm going, I cannot possibly eat that much protein a day. I would, it would be like a half a part-time job. And also, because I only eat fish as an animal, so I don't eat any other animal protein, so it's really hard. And then you wind up getting into all these supplementations and powders, eggs. Do you yeah, I eat eggs? You eat eggs almost every day.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

So I I consume a lot of liquid egg whites, which I know sounds gross and weird. Yeah. Some people have but it's funny. I like the whole egg. If I'm eating eggs, I'm eating eggs. No, it sounds disgusting, but I liquid egg whites are like my mother's milk to my high protein bodybuilding diet. It's the liquid in my smoothie. And then I put my classic afternoon meal is like 10 ounces of liquid egg whites. I'll put a scoop of protein powder, mostly for flavor, like the vanilla or chocolate or I'll throw in a banana, maybe a handful of like spinach or whatever happens to be in there. And I blend that baby together, and it is so good. And it's just such an easy, if you can get over the egg white, and I know your listeners are going to be like, but is that safe? But the answer is yes, because they're pasteurized in the containers, they're totally safe to consume. And it is just a flavorless, easy way of hitting protein. I introduced my friend Patty to making smoothies this way. She says delicious. So as long as you can get over the weirdness of the liquid egg white, yeah. It is a really great way of getting protein.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Okay. And for everyone else out there listening, I'll put my nutrition guide in the show notes and on the social media reels because my morning smoothie is slightly different. I don't use egg whites, but definitely have the powder and I add hemp seeds and nuts. Make sure that I'm also getting omega-3 fatty acids. And oh, I forgot to mention my spoonful of peanut butter. So yes, I'm glad you okay, good. So yeah, that's how I start at least my morning with a high protein breakfast because I know how important it is. There's tons of studies that show that if you have a high protein breakfast at least, then you make better decisions throughout the day. Your satiety hormones is elevated, leptin is elevated, meaning you're less hungry, you're more satiated. That's my one thing that I always will coach clients on is like start at least start the day that way, then build upon that throughout. Okay. So thank you so much for all those things. Refraining for folks out there that are either just starting out or whatever. We want to encourage you to lift heavy weights, to feel more confident at going to the gym. Screw it, don't worry. And if you don't, that's okay too. Go build something in your house, get some heavy dumbbells. We're gonna grab your book, lift, where we can learn so many. Do you have what else is in there in the back? Like I saw that is there a program for beginners?

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yes. Chapter seven, it's like how to get started on this thing. Doesn't it's not rocket science. Let me take you through how to start thinking about lifting and how to start thinking about eating. Awesome. So yeah, I hope it, I hope it helps lots of women rethink their bodies and their potential. You were always meant to be strong. That is in your nature, you are always meant to be an athlete. You are an athlete. Women are incredible. We bring life into the world, our bodies are we live longer than men, and we are stronger than men in a lot of ways that we don't think about. We withstand pain, we juggle, nobody's business. So this is the body, the physique that you were meant to have, and don't fear it. Go after it.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Awesome. With that was it, I'm gonna ask you four rapid fire questions, Eddie, and just first thing that comes to mind: what was your favorite food as a kid? Pizza. If you could have a drink, it doesn't have to be alcoholic, with anyone, alive or dead, who would it be and what's in your glass? Billy Jean King.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Glass of Prosecco. Love that. What's your favorite self-help book? I love Mel Robbins' new, the new, what's it called? Let them. Thank you. Menopause moment. Yes, let them by Mel Robbins. Okay, got it. Your favorite hype song. Oh my god. The one from Rocky. Not the one that you're thinking. No, it's called Going the Distance. Okay. Oh good.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

You gotta listen to it. Okay. Awesome. It'll end up. When and where can everyone find your book?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

June 17th in bookstores, but you can pre-order it now anywhere books are sold, Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble, anywhere books are sold. So please order it now for you or for someone you love, because it can really change a life.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Yeah. This book is about transformation. So thank you for sharing your story from going from drinking to deadlifts. That's what I'm saying. I want to name the episode. That's what came to me. Anyway, everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you have any questions or comments for us, please leave a review on this podcast. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss another episode. And let us know what you think on social media. I'm at Jen Cassetta, and you are at Anne Marie Shaker. So A-N-N-E-M-A-R-I-E-C-H-A-K-E-R. Awesome. All right, everyone. Thanks for listening and stay strong.