65 | Ambition and Chill: Lessons in Success and Self-Worth with Jess Ekstrom

Ever wonder how to stay ambitious without tying your worth to your work? 

On The Art of Badassery Podcast, host Jenn Cassetta reunites with Jess Ekstrom, founder of Headbands of Hope and Mic Drop Workshop and author of Chasing the Bright Side and Making It Without Losing It, to talk about starting young, trying before you feel ready, and learning through setbacks. 

Jess shares how Headbands of Hope began after seeing kids with cancer want headbands, how a fraudulent manufacturer nearly derailed her, and how later she spent six figures on an app idea before cutting her losses and reframing it as “tuition” for the lesson. They discuss separating output from self-worth, building confidence through evidence, focusing on problems over outcomes, and Jess’s “purpose test” for intrinsic motivation, plus Mic Drop’s mission to help more women land paid speaking opportunities. 

Connect with Jess Ekstrom:

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jess_ekstrom/
• Website - https://jessekstrom.com/
• New Book Making It Without Losing It - https://jessekstrom.com/makingit/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I have survived my hardest days. And everyone listening to this podcast has. You've done it. You've things that you've overcome that you just didn't think you'd be able to, you have. And so now a lot of my confidence comes from evidence where I'm like, I know with speaking, used to be just scared shitless. And now I'm like, I have evidence that I can do this. Then I think the most important thing you can do to separate this idea that your output is your self-worth is becoming more obsessed with the problem than the solution. So what I mean by that is I think that the best businesses or people out there are just super curious about people's problems in the process instead of just the milestone in the solution.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Hi there, I'm Den Cassetta, your chief badass 3 officer. If you're feeling drained, hesitant, stuck in self-doubt, or you just have a case of the vlogs, the Art of Badass 3 podcast is here to help you unleash your lojo once and for all. We'll provide you with tips, techniques, and real-life examples of how you can kick heads in all areas of your life. You'll learn how to flex your mental muscles, rise above fears, and turn setbacks into superpowers. So let's enter the dojo and let's get to work. Hello everyone and welcome to the Art of Badasserie podcast. I'm Jen Casetta, your chief badassery officer, and today I have such a special guest for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Her name is Jess Ekstrom. You may know her from her mic drop workshop if you're a budding speaker or a total speaker, because Jess is a total badass.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Jess is the founder of Headbands of Hope and Mic Drop Workshop. Investor in women, best-selling author, Forbes top-rated speaker and mom. Are you a Forbes top-rated mom?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

I don't know about that. Maybe that's the name of the I think that would be Miss Rachel. Yeah. That would be Miss Rachel. Oh my god. Jess's first brush with success was selling all her toys on eBay when she was 12.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Since then, Jess and her companies have been featured on the Today Show, Good Morning America, and more. More importantly, her companies have helped millions of women and girls around the world. She's the best-selling author of Chasing the Bright Side and her new book, Making It Without Losing It.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Welcome to the show, Jess. Thanks, Jen. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you. I'm so excited you're here and that we're reunited because Jess and I met, I was trying to think of when.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

It was probably 2012 or when we were both on a company roster called Campus Feak. We were speaking on college campuses around the country.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

And what I will always remember about Jess is I know this is so silly, but her age, she started all of this so young, you guys. And I've always been super impressed by her. I just remember we were at some conference, I think in Atlanta, and I learned how old you were. And I was like, oh my god, how did you start all this? Oh my gosh, that's so funny. I had no idea where you were going with what I will always remember about Jess. I was like, what's she gonna say? I think so much of it was obviously my parents being wonderful and showing me that I could just try. And I it's funny. I was literally just giving the commencement address at my high school a couple weeks ago for graduation, and I was trying to think of that moment in my life what I was thinking or feeling. And I think one of the gifts that my parents were or whoever told me was like, just a lot of this stuff isn't permanent. And just give it a whirl. And so I don't think I had things, I definitely didn't have things figured out, still don't, but I think I did have a willingness to try and experiment at a young age. And so I think my timing of things were earlier because I gave it a shot. Yeah. You have to share with everyone your backstory from headbands of hope. Tell us all about it because I know it's you've recreated your career now, and that's but that's like your origin story, right? Yeah, it started. I was interning when I was in college for the Make A Wish Foundation, and I was seeing a lot of kids that were losing their hair to chemotherapy, being offered wigs or hats, and a lot of them wanted to wear headbands, and I just thought it was such a cool gesture of confidence. And I remember Googling the headbands for kids with cancer, couldn't find anything, and I think that's a moment when the roads split. You are looking for something that you wish existed and you can't find it. And so you have the choice of man, I wish that existed, or what if I created it myself? Is this something that I need to do? And so in that moment, when I couldn't find headbands for kids with cancer, I decided, let's just see if this is something I could create. So I created headbands of hope. For every headband sold, we donate one to a child with an illness. And there was a lot of bumps along the way, but we eventually went on to donate millions of headbands, headbands for NBA, WMBA, sold in Kohl's, a bunch of cool stuff, which led to the rest of the story. But yeah, I think it was just this willingness to put my ego aside for a bit and see what I could do. Wow. And remind us how old were you at that time? Oh my gosh. So I started Headbands of Hope 2012, and I am now, what is it? It's 2026. I'm now 35, so I don't do math in public, but yeah, like in college. What's that? Didn't you start a business in while you were in college? Yeah, so 2012, yeah. Yes, so I was in college, yes. College, yeah, college. Like that is wow. So before I forget, which I almost did, and I please forgive me out there. I'm in a shipping container in Joshua Tree doing this podcast with Jess because I did not want to cancel and reschedule her because I've been looking forward to this so much. So I'm a little discombobulated, but I always like to start out this podcast now with an intention. And my intention for everyone out there is to just listen to Jess's entrepreneurial spirit. And I think it was that message that you just said, try. If there's anything that's budding inside of you, ideas, et cetera, and it doesn't have to be a business, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:28

It could be a project, a community thing, anything. What if we just tried?

SPEAKER_01 7:33

So, my intention is for you to just let her spirit wash over you and see if any sprouts want to grow. Do you want to add anything to the intention? Oh, I love that. No, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna touch it. That was perfect. Okay, awesome. Now, can you go back to the time where you're building headbands of hope? And I remember you telling a story where you had a maybe a big failure or so. I know it couldn't have been easy. And you're doing this thing where you're helping so many kids. But it couldn't have been easy, right? I know. It was so tough. There were times that just felt when you're building anything, it's just like you reach resistance, whether it's a no or in my case, it was a fraudulent manufacturer. I had been talking to this manufacturer that I found online about creating headbands. They sent me over the invoice to create the first batch. My dad helped fund it because I didn't have the money, and they ran with the money. And it was like this moment where I just was like, okay, is this a sign that I shouldn't be doing this? Or is this just a shitty situation and figure it out? And it wasn't until many years later that I would meet so many incredible people, like a lot of them on the speaking circuit with you, building amazing things and realizing, oh my gosh, every single one of them had a story like mine where they went left when they were supposed to go right, or they paid for something that didn't pan out, or their first launch was crickets. And so it took me many years to figure out that mega failure was just a pretty natural part of going for it and a big learning for me. But it's it doesn't, I see so many people that are like celebrating failure, and I'm like, I don't think we need to light candles, but it can definitely be a sign that you are doing big things, which for me it was. Yeah. Yeah, it's the best reframe, I think, out there that failure is just part of the journey to success. There is no great success story without failures, without setbacks. There really isn't. And I think now a lot, one of the things I also talk about in making it without losing it was this other idea that I had during the pandemic. I had this journaling app idea, and I put six figures of my own money into building this idea. And then I just learned along the way, like developing an app, I was like, this is just gonna keep costing money. It's going to keep, it's so hard to get people to pay for things. And it was like, in the grand scheme of things, actually going well when it the cost benefit wasn't big enough for me. And so I ended up cutting my losses and we had outside investment. I returned all the money. And I felt like really shameful after that that I had just wasted people's time. I had wasted my money, I had said I was going to do something and then I didn't. And then I was talking to my coach about it, and she was like, you know, what if sometimes the mistake that you made, whatever the price of the mistake, was the tuition for the lesson. And for me, now I realize, oh my gosh, all of that money that I spent, I know that I really never want to create an app. You can't. I also really am now resistant to getting any side of outside investment because I hated the way that it made me feel. Wow. Like tethered to people and owing people something. And so there was just all of these learnings that I now have. It took me a few years to develop those, but I'm like, yeah. And I think that we learn things in like through these mistakes in certain ways that prevent us from making an even bigger mistake down the road. Six figures was a lot, but there's I could have spent like years and all of this more time and more money. And for so for me, okay, that that price tag was worth a lesson. Wow. Yeah, that's a really great point. And wow, I didn't realize it cost so much money to build an app. Oh my gosh. So many things. And probably with AI, there's so many lower barrier ways to do it. But yeah, it and I think that's also just another thing about me is that I'm working on is okay, in order to do something, you have to do it all the way. And so I've definitely learned how to do things in phases and learn from each phase instead of just dumping all the gas like at once and just going full force. It's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

What do you think the difference is between you and I I'll put myself in a category, I'll try things versus then there's people that have ideas and never put them out in the world.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

You mentioned obviously the way your parents raised you, but do you what is that thing? Yeah, I think it is if we equate our output to our self-worth, we will never hit publish. And it is so many people I see who are like entrepreneurs, content creators, speakers, whatever it might be, who are just getting the repetition, going for it, hitting publish. Okay, that flopped. Let me figure out what's new. It's because they know that they're still whole at the end of it, that the output is with the consumer in mind, not themselves. So I think that I was like that in the beginning, where I was not equating my self-worth to my outcomes and milestones. And then somewhere along the way, those wires got crossed in the middle of headbands of hope. And I was just tethered to a roller coaster of the business was good, so I was good. The business was bad, so I was bad. And so then when I started mic drop and what I'm doing now, I truly made a vow to myself that I just would never live like that again. Now, of course, there's degrees of, yeah, man, I'm making a lot of money. Of course, it's gonna be, I'm gonna have a little more pep in my step, or oh shit, just lost this. That that sucks. But I know that I'm still whole, I'm still good. So I think the people that pause and the people that hesitate equate what's gonna happen with who they are as a person. And just not a way to live, but it's so much easier said than done.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

It truly is. And I have worked on that so much over the last few years. I totally understand that and relate.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

And I'm sure a lot of people out there can. Again, even if you're not an entrepreneur, but your identity is so tied up in work and it's who you are. So if you're doing well at work, great. And right now, I just feel like there's so many people that are worried about losing their jobs and stuff like that. That must be really difficult to walk around with.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

So, how did you make that transition?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

What was the work that you did or the coaching you got, or what helped you make that transition? I think that a couple things. Starting with evidence building of oh, I have survived my hardest days, and everyone listening to this podcast has. You've done it. You've things that you've overcome that you just didn't think you'd be able to, you have. And so now a lot of my confidence comes from evidence where I'm like, I know with speaking, it used to be just scared shitless, and now I'm like, I have evidence that I can do this, and I have evidence that even if the crowd is not great, that I'm still good. So I think a lot of that comes from evidence. But then I think the most important thing you can do to separate this idea that your output is your self-worth is becoming more obsessed with the problem than the solution. So what I mean by that is I think that the best businesses or people out there are just super curious about people's problems in the process instead of just the milestone in the solution. So, for example, at Mic Drop Workshop, our mission is to help more women land paid speaking opportunities. Yeah, can you just tell us what that is, the mic drop workshop for those that don't know? Yeah. So less than 30% of paid speaking opportunities go to women. And so Mic Drop Workshop is on a mission to change that. So we help women figure out what they want to be known for, build their keynote talks, and get paid to do it, whether that's through speaking, writing books, just become seen and valued for what they know. And I am obsessed with the problem of women not being seen and valued as thought leaders. And so, therefore, all of the outcomes and solutions are with that problem in mind. It's not how do I be the next Amy Porter field or a big idea? It's just what are they struggling with? Where are the gaps? How can I help? And so I think that when people become more problem obsessed than outcome obsessed, it's everything becomes an experiment, not like, oh, they have to like me. Everything becomes science and coming from a person who failed science class, but now we do these boot camps every year and January boot camps. Yeah, mic drop boot camps that just help people get a quick understanding of what they might want to speak on, and then they can decide whether they want to do it or not. And that's really how we grow our business is through these quick boot camps that we do four times a year. And the one at the beginning of the year just absolutely crushed and demolished our goals. And then we did one in April and it didn't hit what we had projected. It wasn't bad, but it didn't hit. And I remember a couple of years ago being totally just crushed if we didn't hit what we said we were gonna do. And then now, yeah, it's disappointing, but the length of time that I'm like in misery is shorter. Yeah. The misery is still there because I want to win, but it's shorter. And then I moved to a scientist. What who was in the room? Where did we miss? Was it communication? Was it here? Was it there? Was it show rate? And then it's a culture I also try to instill in my team because I realize now I attract a lot of empaths and I love that. People who are super passionate, maybe even more passionate than I am. And I have to help people be like, it's okay. Let's figure out, let's get curious and let's put our scientists' hats on and figure out what went wrong and what we want to do differently. But like I said, I'm speaking all of this as if it's easy and it's something I actively work on every day. Yes. That's growth in general. We have to work on these things every single day. Um just recently. And again, I've been working on this through my meditation, through all the different things I do.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

But you said two things that I just want to point out from the Art of Badassery.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

One is evidence-based when you're feeling like the world just fell out from the bottom of you, or you're in a season of suck. You go back and I call it your greatest shits list. And you go, look, that happened in my life, and I'm still here. I'm still here. Yeah. This again. And then you can even go back to the opposite, your greatest hits list, and say, I've also done some really epic shit in my and that's just proof that I can do that again. Oh, Jen, I love that. So good. My husband and I always say whenever, because he, as I was mentioning, works for Mic Drop. And so it's a lot of eggs in one basket, which can feel like a lot of pressure for a household. Sure. And but we lived in an RV for three years, and so we always go back to okay, let's say everything blows up. We cease to make money, but we sell our house, like everything. We know we can live in an RV and have a great fucking time. We love it. Except now you'd have two extra kids. Except we had two kids. That might be a little challenging, but one we'd be able to do. But we always go back to we've literally lived in this much square feet, and it's fine. The evidence is and that was one of the things I was talking to when I was giving that commencement. I was like, just start stacking your evidence. You do an internship that you realize you hate. Great news. Go on a date with a guy who only talks about cold plunges for two hours. Great ev you have data now that you can use to make decisions going forward. But I think for so long, I just was trying to classify things as good and bad and worked and didn't. And I'm like, it's all just a blurry mess that's a part of where I'm at now. Yes. The so okay. Is this why you wrote this book, Making It Without Losing It? Is it related to that out your worth people conflating your worth your output? Yeah. I said to my coach one day, because I was like, I think it was after I did the app that didn't work. And I was like, why can't I just chill and just Do things that I know are working, like mic drop and this other stuff. And she's because you just like being ambitious. You're just an ambitious person who likes building things. And so I'm like, okay, so how do I be like a chill, ambitious person? Can those things exist? I also had that. I'm like, because another part of me is is my anxiety the reason for my success? Am I someone who? And I've heard other people talk about this where, but if I am content with where I am, if I'm happy with myself, then what's what am I pursuing? And so it was really this thing that kept me up at night. I'm like, if I like building things, if I like being ambitious, can I be happy with myself while doing it? Or is that ambition coming from trying to cure or solve or be enough? And is that really what it takes? And so I came to this, I don't know if conclusion's the right word, but this idea that ambitious people will always live with a gap between where they're at now and where they want to be. There's always another stage you want to be on, another book you want to write, another thing you want to accomplish. So there's always you're living like when you say, I'm never gonna write another book. I'm never gonna do another TEDx talk. And then you find yourself always there, always there. You know this better than anyone. Yes. And so there's always that gap. But here's the thing is that we have two ways we can look at that gap. That gap can be just like uh just a shitty, disappointing deficit of what I haven't done yet. I didn't get, haven't gotten the TED Talk. I haven't written the book, I haven't gotten the promotion. Or that gap can just be an exciting experiment, the science, the curiosity of what would it take? What are all of the out like possible outcomes or possible processes that can get me there? And when you look at someone like, I don't know, let's just take Lindsay Vaughn, who participated in the Winter Olympics this year, at and or even Allison Felix, who I just had on my podcast, who's going back to LA 2028 to compete at the age of 40. That's amazing. Allison is I know she's incredible. Can I just tell you she sat with me on the plane in November going to Saudi Arabia? And I'm no way. Yeah, her and her brother, and I was like, Wes is great. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, did you guys talk? Yeah, we were chatting. She's great, super nice. It was also we had missed our other flight, and it was just a long travel day. So we also slept. But anyway, sorry. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Yeah, she's the best. But yeah, just take Allison Felix's story, for example. She is literally the most decorated track and field athlete in the world, and she is going back to compete. And so she doesn't need another outcome. There is no other outcome more decorated than her right now. So the only reason that she is competing is based off of pure interest and curiosity in herself and what she's able to do for no one else but her. And so that's what making it without losing it is about is like not seeing the gap as a deficit, but seeing it as a fun, exciting curiosity potential. I love that. How can we all do that? All the listeners and me, like, how can I look at my gap. No, let's look at that gap. I always have that. I'm always searching for the next thing, what am I gonna build, etc.? So instead of you're saying instead of thinking instead of looking at that as I don't know having like anxiety. Yeah, like how do you actually make that shift? Yeah. Yeah, how do you make that shift? First, I would ask two things. First one is who are you trying to impress? When I realized so much of what I was doing was trying to impress my parents, things got so much different for me. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, I think that's the case for so many people. I was actually having a conversation out here in the desert with a random dude just yesterday about that. Really? Yeah. How did that come out?

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

It's so weird, but uh we went to this person's house who and he created this beautiful tea house in the middle of the desert.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

It's there's no website, there's no link, it's private. You have to like it's not private, it's like open to anybody who knows about it.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

And he'll just you can just walk in and he'll make you tea. But it's like he sourced everything from to make it look like a Chinese tea house.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Oh, I want to or immigrants from China. And he's I realized that I didn't build this for me, I built this for my parents. Everything that he's done, he was talking about how that's essentially what he was doing. So but it wound up getting into a much deeper talk, right? But it's so interesting when we really peel back the layers. Who am I trying to impress?

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

And it's there's no shame in that, too. It's so natural to be like, My parents are gonna be proud of me, which also for the record, I could tell my parents that I'm deciding to be a whatever, and they'd be like, Great. And so it wasn't for anything that they did, it was just this pure nature of myself. And probably something happened when you were a kid and either got their attention or didn't, and then for sure around that seven-year-old mark is when the most impressionable things kind of stick in us. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I'm like being hyper maybe too aware of that with my daughter now trying not to just applaud her achievements, but applaud her effort. Yeah, but yeah, so who are you trying to impress? And I think that can answer a lot of questions for you, which leads me to the next question. I talk about this in making it without losing it. It's the purpose test. And I like to, whenever I speak, I run people through it. And so imagine we talked about that gap between where you're at now and where you want to go. What is that accomplishment or something? Maybe you mentioned a TED talk, or we keep going back to TED Talks and books because that's our life. But maybe someone listening, you we can all do this right now. Pick the thing that you're chasing, the thing that you really want. Imagine that you got it. You got the email, you got the text, you got the notification, the phone call that it's yours. You got the promotion, you got the TED talk, it's yours. But no one knew it was you. You had to remain anonymous. You couldn't tell your spouse, you couldn't post it on social media, you couldn't tell your parents, would you still do it? Ooh. That's an excellent litmus test. It's a good one because if your answer is yes, then you are it's like coming from a sense of intrinsic motivation. It's like interest or impact related.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

And if your answer is no, then you might be doing something because of the approval for others. But here's the thing is I was talking about this on another podcast the other day. I get that we live in a world that rewards approval. We, social media, that's likes and virality. So it's not that we have to ignore everything that other people say, but I think we have to pay attention to the ratio that we give it. My ratio was really big in what I was giving for approval versus what I was doing because I wanted to, or interest or impact. So check the ratio of it. It's just a good way to see. Am I is my compass tuned the way I want it to be? I love that.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Obviously, I'm thinking about my book and how I wanted to write this book, this next one, The Secrets of the Sunsei. And yeah, even if it wasn't me, like I needed to get these out into the world.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

So that is a good real test. If I had to use like a if you imagined your this book in everyone's hands and it was changing their life, but there was no author on it, it would still be worth it to you. Yeah. Yeah, then write it. Yeah. It's written. I love it and I can't wait to read it. But that is really that's a really great takeaway, I think, for everyone here. Would that play, would that still work if it was like a promotion at a job or something like that? Yeah, I think it would. And I've talked to some corporate people on this because I it's different kinds of intrinsic motivation when you're working for someone else. But I think that the sentiment of doing things based on how they look versus how they feel, still stands.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

And here's the thing is that money can be intrinsically motivated. I was talking to the founders of The Skim on my podcast, and we talked about true or false, does money buy happiness? And we said money itself, like a number in a bank account, maybe is not what it is, but that money can buy presence, it can buy time, it can buy health, freedom, and freedom, exactly. Yeah. For me, it helps childcare, which helps me do all these other things. And so sometimes that promotion or that salary raise can be intrinsically motivated because of what it allows. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. That sounds really good. Okay. But there is so much mental gymnastics that goes into this. I like to think of extrinsic motivation as checking boxes and intrinsic motivation as connecting the dots. What you do, okay, it matters here, it matters there, and it's more of a longevity legacy play than it is a resume play. And one other thing that I noticed when you when you were talking about the the likes and the clicks and all that, that that's also can be addictive, like the dopamine hits that we're getting from oh, look at me and look at this thing that I did. And like kind of that is really it's addicting. It's addicting. So also separating yourself from that by doing your test could really be helpful. Yeah. And the other interesting part about dopamine, too, that is really interesting is that we for decades thought we got dopamine, which is like that happiness feel-good hormone at the result in the outcome, in the reward. But this study at Vanderbilt showed that we actually get that hit of dopamine that we're chasing in the process in anticipation of the result. And so food for thought for anyone that's I think I'm gonna feel the way I want to feel when I get this. Call it the once I then I is just the national anthem for delaying joy. And we think that our life begins when our life begins now. And actually the dopamine hit happens in the process, not at the outcome. Interesting. I know it's fascinating. It really is. Yeah. Okay, tell us just a quick what this book is about, who's it for, why'd you write it? I know that's a lot. The book is about the pursuit of being ambitious while also being happy in the present. And so if you want that Venn diagram to overlap, then this book is for you. And what was it? Or well, you just said that. Yeah. And why did you write it? Why did I write it? I think that we write and create things that we needed the most. So I thought that eventually I sold Head Vance of Hope, and I thought that was gonna be it, this solve all my problems milestone moment. Then I thought it was gonna be getting my first house, and I thought it was gonna be having a kid and all of these calendar date happiness boxes, and then you check them, and then the world keeps spinning, and you realize solving old problems brings new problems. And so then what is this? Like, how do we stay motivated in a world that we're never done? I think there's two kinds of people that have zero notifications on their phone and a million notifications on their phone. I'm a zero notification girl because I'm always trying to get to the bottom of the pile. And then I have to realize the bottom doesn't exist. And so this making it without losing it was like the exploration of that. If all we have is the process, then how do we make it good? The journey becomes the destination. I know. And I told people, I'm like, I'm not trying to be Miley Cyrus and say it's the climb. There's more to it than that, but that is definitely a theme. Awesome. Awesome. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy. I know I need to send you one. I can't believe I haven't sent one already.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Yeah. Please do, please do. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

And I just if anyone out there is interested in book publishing, I heard this time around you announced that you self-published. We actually created our own imprint. And of course you did. It's called Mic Drop Books. And my goal is to be able to publish great women's voices. And I want it to be the go-to imprint for women speakers because speaking and selling books are so peanut butter jelly synergistic. And there's definitely a methodology to that too. And so that's what I want to do. So keep me posted for your next book, Jen. Yeah. Oh gosh. Number three number three and a half, I should say. Yeah. We'll get there, but thank you. Yeah, yeah. You're the best. Thanks for having me on this too.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

You heard it here for folks. I just got a another publishing deal. Oh, love you, Jess. I'm so happy.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Happy too. You're I have four rapid fire questions before you. Oh, are you ready? Let's do it. What was your favorite food when you were a kid? Ooh, a 7-Eleven slushie. I loved the Coca-Cola one. Okay. So random. I haven't thought about that. You just unlocked the core memory that was sitting deep inside me.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Yeah, and that's the point. If you could have a drink with anyone, alive or dead, who would it be and what's in your cup? Jane Fonda, Dirty Martini. Fingers crossed, I'm gonna be meeting her this fall, but I'm just gonna leave it at that. Put it out there. Three is what's your favorite nonfiction self-help personal development book? Oh my gosh. So many. Let me think of okay, the book that kind of changed life. His name was Randy Potts last lecture. And I remember we had to read it in high school for summer reading. And it was, he had a terminal diagnosis, and it was like he was a Cornell teacher, a professor, and it was his last lecture. And I remember reading that book and rethinking my life, but also realizing the power that someone else telling their story could have on someone else. Wow. Yeah, it's a really good one. In high school, again, back to my point. Yes. Don't get me wrong. I was also getting drunk, but in between, there was some good stuff. I was just thinking, I was out in the woods getting drunk with my friends, and Jess is there doing me. No, I was doing both. Yeah. Good to know. And last but not least, what's your favorite hype song? Hype song of the moment? What's getting you out of bed? Oh my gosh. Perfect day, like the El Woods Legally Blonde theme song. Love that song. It's just it feels like I'm main character in the background music to my life. Perfect. It goes on a it goes on a Spotify playlist called the Art of Badass Rehype Song. Oh, I love that. Okay, I'm gonna have to go find it. Yeah. I'm always looking for some good hype music. Jess, tell everyone where they can find you and follow along this ambition and chill mindset. Yes. Man, I should have called it ambition and chill. I'm calling the episode that's so perfect. That is so perfect. This that's the first time I've ever said it. So this is wonderful. You can get making it without losing it wherever books are sold. I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn, Jess Extram. But my favorite thing that I do is I send out a hype text every Monday with a quote or thought for your week. So you can text me the word hype to 704-228-9495. That's also me on the other end. I'm not a robot, so I read it. And if you love this episode or have questions, shoot me a text and I'll try to respond. Oh, I love that so much, everyone. Get on that hype list. We all need a hype woman in our lives. So yes, I sure do. Thank you so much, Jess, again, for sharing your wisdom. I'm so glad when I grow up, I want to be Jess one day. Ambition, chill. Feeling is mutual. I have so much respect for you and always have. And I just have loved our friendship over the years. Thank you, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Everyone, thank you for listening. You know I love you, and we will see you next time on the Art of Badass 3 podcast.