WEBVTT 00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:02.799 Hey friends, welcome to the SCARS Podcast. 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:04.799 I'm Nola Cason, the Girls Ministry Director. 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:06.080 And I'm Jesus Aviles. 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:16.079 I'm one of your pastors here at Celebration Baptist Church, and the interviews that you're going to experience are supplementary in terms of providing the therapeutic perspective to our four-part sermon series. 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:18.480 Let's hop into today's interview. 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:25.839 We have with us today Dr. 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:26.719 Smith. 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:36.000 So I'm going to start with a couple of opening questions to help us get to know you a little bit better before we get started into the sermon-specific questions. 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:42.719 Share with us who you are, where you're serving, and how the Lord led you to being a biblical mental health practitioner. 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:50.000 Well, um, I think at 19 I decided I would be a therapist. 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:53.520 And so that was a long, long time ago. 00:00:53.520 --> 00:01:01.200 Um now, how I got here is too long a story in the short period of time that we have. 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:11.599 But um basically I ended up deciding that I didn't have the looks or the clothes to be a good therapist. 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:18.079 So I decided to become a professor instead and then do therapy at night. 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:20.719 Well, that was a little arrogant. 00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:23.760 Becoming a professor was actually a full-time job. 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:29.359 And so I didn't have the time to become a full-time therapist at night. 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:33.760 So I studied therapy, and then I did a little bit when I could. 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:38.640 Um, and that was about uh 40 years ago. 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:46.640 So I've spent 40 years studying therapy, doing therapy on the side at times in various places. 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:50.719 Um, you know, I traveled around the U.S. 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:54.879 giving talks on this and uh done research on it. 00:01:54.879 --> 00:02:00.959 So basically I'm just kind of a recovering professor. 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:01.680 How's that? 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:08.319 Would you mind me asking you what are some of the top topics that you you had that you've traveled around giving? 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:10.319 Just, you know, a couple just for us to. 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:18.879 Well, probably the one that was the uh was on abstinence education. 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:22.800 Basically, is how to keep uh kids from having sex. 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:26.240 And so you're gonna be invited back for another sermon. 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:29.120 I just want to let you go. 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:29.520 Go ahead. 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:39.039 Um, but I can also tell you that uh based upon the research I did over many years, um, there's no way to keep kids from having sex. 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:41.759 That's basically was the result of the research. 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:49.759 No matter what you try to teach them, no matter what you tell them, kids will do what kids will do. 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:51.840 And so they follow their heart. 00:02:52.000 --> 00:03:02.879 So that means you have to get to them early and you gotta get them uh so that they believe in it, because by the time they're 12, 13, it's hard to start teaching them. 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:06.639 It starts because it goes in and then it goes out. 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:07.039 Right. 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:07.280 Okay. 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:08.560 So no. 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:11.680 So that did a lot of work on that. 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:24.000 And but basically, I'm just a professor who did research on therapy, did a little therapy on the side, and um tried to learn over a long period of time. 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:24.400 All right. 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:27.280 We look forward to um getting to learn what you learned. 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:28.560 So we'll do that. 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:33.599 Okay, so now we're gonna get into a definition of trauma. 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:40.000 Can you define trauma for us and even different types of trauma if possible? 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:50.159 Um actually uh the term trauma was wasn't really something I became aware of, but then I started teaching this course. 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:57.120 It's psychopathology, it's the study of mental illness, but more specifically, it's giving diagnoses. 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:00.159 One such diagnosis is trauma. 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:06.240 So then psychiatrists use a number of criteria by which they define trauma. 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:09.599 Okay, so that has a very specific meaning. 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.439 But the problem is that's changed over the decades. 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:17.920 So what trauma is, is it's a moving target. 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.920 It is not any one thing. 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:33.439 And so for people to say it's one thing or the other, or sure, but remember it has changed so much over the years, it's hard to know exactly what it is. 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:38.000 I think it's safe to say that it's an individual thing. 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:42.399 Each person will say uh what trauma is for themselves. 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:45.360 Now, would I think of it as trauma? 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:54.879 I mean, they might say they had a bad hair day, and that was traumatizing, you know, and I'd go, a bad hair day is a bad hair day. 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:59.199 Not sure how it's trauma, but for that person it was traumatic. 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:07.759 So it's really being uh respectful of each person's experience, definition, how they present their trauma. 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:17.759 So uh some extent, when people you know say they're traumatized, I'll be quiet and silent and try to listen. 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:27.040 But um I won't really know what that means until they give me more context, until they tell me how trauma has affected them personally. 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:32.639 So let me ask, we're obviously um at a church, we've got multi-generational. 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:52.480 So if the term and its definition has developed, right, expanded, contracted along the way, you know, um any any any guidance you can possibly give, let's just say a parent having uh a kid and who wants to talk about a traumatic experience where they're just their definitions are just are completely at odds. 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:52.879 Right. 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:55.680 I didn't know if there's any guidance you can kind of provide. 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:01.680 Well, for uh a kid to say they've been traumatized, that's not kid language. 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:05.680 I I'd be I'd be very curious, very worried. 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:08.800 How did the how did the kid learn the word trauma? 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:11.279 What does that mean to the kid? 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:18.560 I mean, so that that would be the first thing that comes to my mind, because that it's something's odd there about that language. 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:31.120 Um it might be something that happened to somebody, and they learned somehow, their friend, teacher, that what happened to them was trauma. 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:33.519 So that that may be what happened. 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:40.639 So it's really listening to um kind of what is kind of a normal way, you know, kids will talk. 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:51.279 And then if all of a sudden they say something about trauma, that that should perk up your ears, because that's an unusual thing for any child to say. 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.040 That's that's excellent. 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:58.399 I mean, it's very easy when you hear a term, you're like the kid doesn't even know what that means, and just brush it off. 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:06.720 But from your explanation of it, the fact that a kid brought up the term, that should raise a red flag, raise an eyebrow, perk up your ears. 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:08.160 Very, very much so. 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:08.560 Yeah. 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:09.199 Excellent. 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:18.319 And so, you know, um, in terms of trauma, after it's been experienced, many manifestations in terms of uh what can be displayed and what can be thought about. 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:32.319 But but I want to specifically go into a type of expression or a type of feeling of loneliness and isolation, if you wouldn't mind just just honing in on that, um, and just tell us a little bit about that in terms of your... 00:07:32.009 --> 00:07:49.199 Well, you know, most of the people that I've seen who've been traumatized, they they will feel like um their community has kind of been um come down to one themselves, because they will feel alone at that point. 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:54.399 Because I mean, questions like why me will be coming to their mind. 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:57.439 And so that that will be just playing through their mind. 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:04.720 They may have tried reaching out to others and been told uh basically it's that's not a big deal, don't worry about it. 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.959 Or um you'll get over it. 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.680 Uh so I mean, I I think Dr. 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:11.759 Valentine talked about platitudes. 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:12.240 Yeah. 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:22.399 And so most of the people who've been traumatized have been told platitudes, which has unfortunately re-traumatized the person, because now they've been told you're not important. 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:25.600 What you're saying is not real. 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:28.879 And so therefore, you're just making it up. 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:36.720 That will give a sense of aloneness and loneliness, because then it's with a sense no one understands. 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:46.320 So that that that's the reason why platitudes are are so dangerous, because it leads to isolation and loneliness. 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:51.120 And if I could just say this is specific to our audience, uh, Dr. 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:52.799 Smith had mentioned the name Dr. 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:53.600 Valentine. 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:55.919 Our audience won't be introduced to Dr. 00:08:55.919 --> 00:09:01.600 Valentine until episode four, so hold on to that and continue to listen on. 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:02.639 But uh, Dr. 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:03.360 Smith and Dr. 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:04.559 Valentine are married. 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:06.799 We are blessed to get them both here. 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:08.960 But but wait, let me interrupt. 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:09.519 Yes, sir. 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.639 She's the A team. 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:12.320 I I'm the B team. 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:17.120 Okay, so if you can't go with her because B is the A team. 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:17.679 A 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.000 She's the A Team. You've got to get to episode four to get to the A Team. 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:20.399 All right. 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:21.919 So just hold on to your horses. 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:22.399 We'll get there. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:23.039 We'll get there. 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:27.279 All right, so loneliness and isolation and that whole concept of a community of one. 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:33.360 That's very interesting how you can think you're a community of one and be surrounded with a church body. 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:33.679 Right. 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:35.039 Or a family. 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:42.080 How does what are all the things that kind of take place for somebody to get themselves in that isolated spot, right? 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:45.440 I I think it's just a sense no one listens. 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:57.360 You know, so people can give good advice, they can be absolutely correct in everything they're saying, but they're not hearing a word that the person says. 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:01.840 You've created then uh a community of one. 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.159 Because then no one's listening to them. 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:08.720 And that's the probably the one thing I see most often. 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:10.720 I mean, they're people are good. 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:16.720 They just don't listen to each other because each person thinks they're good. 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:23.360 We're gonna have to pause that and we just have to silently think about that, what we just said. 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:24.720 That's that's excellent. 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:36.080 So let me ask, um, when addressing loneliness and isolation, what are some healthy and unhealthy ways of uh the person that went through that traumatic experience, how they've dealt with that? 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:41.200 Just some examples of healthy and unhealthy, just to so we can keep an eye on stuff like that. 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:52.159 Well, uh, you know, part of um, you know, part of the way I I'm gonna actually skip ahead to some of your other questions. 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:52.799 Yeah, great. 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:54.000 Do what you gotta do, Dr. 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:54.559 Smith. 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:08.000 Um, when I was 30, um, I, or actually when I was around the mid-50s, uh mid-uh 20, when I was about 25, I had to decide um upon a dissertation topic. 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.080 And so I there were all sorts. 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:15.519 But the one I chose was one where I could get paid $10,000 to do a research study. 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:15.919 Okay. 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.720 Because I was poor, I needed to eat, and $10,000 sounded like a lot of money. 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:23.120 It was on marijuana abuse, okay. 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:24.879 Um, basically addictions. 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.919 That led me into the area of addictions. 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:42.960 And so when I became a professor after I graduated, then um my topic then was addictions, which led me into 12 steps, which led me into the issue of God. 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:54.080 Now, remember, I was a professor, so I looked at things um really through trying to research it, understand it, kind of reading about it, etc. 00:11:54.080 --> 00:12:03.039 And so one of the things that I learned is um remember, with God you're not alone. 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:06.960 But and in the 12 steps, community is built. 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:11.279 And so it's in addictions I learned what community meant. 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:18.480 Because um I'm actually not an addict, so I couldn't go to a 12-steps meeting. 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:32.799 But I read enough, I talked enough to people who were uh going to 12 steps and again did research on it and by talking to people and began to understand what does aloneness mean for them. 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:41.919 Well, the whole thing about 12 steps then was just having people listen to you and understand where you're coming from. 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:55.039 So um that that's probably where um my understanding of the role of God came was from talking to people who were addicts. 00:12:55.039 --> 00:13:03.279 Now it doesn't mean that they were uh kind of healed overnight or that they became great Christians. 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.759 I'm a little more realist than that. 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:11.440 But it certainly provides uh a pathway. 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:12.159 Okay. 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:20.960 So it's in this unhealthy journey where then arrogance, pride becomes the key issue. 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:26.080 And it's their first statement, I can do it myself, I can control my use. 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:43.759 That's a statement of pride because by definition, and if you look at all the definitions of uh addiction, it all starts with the idea, I can do it myself, I can control my use, but they fail each time, which means they can't control their use. 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:46.960 That means they need help, they need community. 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:55.120 So, yeah, the issue of vice uh of um addictions and trauma, frankly, is the same thing. 00:13:55.120 --> 00:14:08.080 It's the issue of trying to control it yourself, trying to do it yourself, and failing and failing and failing, and having no one uh listen until you get to a community who can listen. 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:17.200 So I'm gonna interrupt you for just a second, um, and go back to um kind of getting to know a little bit about who you are. 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:29.200 You mentioned in the midst of your uh research of addiction and community and 12-step programs, uh that that led you to, okay, where does God fit in the midst of this? 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:33.919 So can you share with us your salvation story, how you came to know the Lord personally? 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:43.120 Probably it it, you know, some people talk about a mountaintop experience and et cetera, et cetera. 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.639 I'm not sure I believe in a mountaintop experience. 00:14:46.639 --> 00:15:08.080 I I think it happened over a period of years and knowing something must be happening, because um I've screwed up in so many ways that there is nothing, no reason that I should still be um be able to be successful as much as I am without there being God. 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:13.279 And I think so I had to be convinced like any other good uh skeptic. 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:22.559 And it was by just seeing evidence over and over and over again until finally it's like, okay, I'm done. 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:29.759 Um I've I've been convinced, you know, Holy Spirit and God did it to me. 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:30.559 He did. 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:32.879 I didn't have any other choice. 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:35.600 That's excellent. 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:45.840 I think uh a lot of people um would share that experience in terms of I can't put my finger on it, but I was definitely walked to that point and like I'm just kind of here. 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:46.240 Right? 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:52.799 I'm just kind of like saved, I've just kind of been aware that of the Lord's work and so excellent. 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:54.080 It took a long time though. 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:55.840 It took a while, yeah, yeah. 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.240 A couple years, you're like you're in 30s now. 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:01.840 Yeah, yeah, well, it took a long, long time. 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:20.480 Um professors by definition are arrogant, and their arrogance uh means that universities are by and large secular, which leads um the whole business of being arrogant and prideful. 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:29.519 Universities means that they um it's hard for them to be anything but um either agnostic or atheists. 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:36.080 It's just it's the nature of being in a university, it's uh it's the self-sufficiency. 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.200 That is the danger of being a professor. 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:51.759 So, do you have thoughts or suggested criteria for those seeking um professional counseling as they seek to deal with their trauma? 00:16:51.759 --> 00:17:04.240 How can how would you advise uh the person that knows that they need counseling to make sure that they see somebody who is trustworthy and going to point them towards truth? 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:04.960 Okay. 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:15.680 Well, you know, it's always important to realize that there's uh a readiness for change that could occur. 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:23.839 But it may take a while because they may be ready one day and something happens and then all of a sudden they're not ready anymore. 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:36.240 And so that's why this business of engaging a person into therapy, it really is engaging them, because just because they're ready one day doesn't mean they'll be ready the next day. 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:54.079 So I think that that's why the church is a great place for that because it's a matter of patience and matter of um having patience with people who just don't get it, that they're in a world of hurt, even if they're not willing to share that with other people. 00:17:54.079 --> 00:18:13.359 So um maybe the best thing that can happen is just patience with people who have problems but aren't willing to acknowledge it, aren't willing to almost become that vulnerable because it is scary for people. 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:14.960 So question. 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:21.920 So Nola and I both um both being um leaders within our specific church, right? 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:25.200 We have kids and students kind of come to us to receive care. 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:30.880 Any guidance in terms of at what particular point in our conversations, and you know, Nola and I are both trained. 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:36.240 Uh, I'm a school psychologist by training, you know, just doing assessments, and Nola has her degree in uh biblical counseling. 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:43.680 Um, any guidance on our end where this needs to now shift over into professional mental health care? 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:45.839 Biblical, but but still professional. 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:47.759 Any any thoughts on that? 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.799 Well, I mean, there's all sorts of answers to that. 00:18:52.799 --> 00:19:07.440 Um I I think when it's important for everyone, including, you know, including people, everyone to know, okay, it's time for me to punt. 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:15.039 Because the problem may be that you know, whatever group decides that they have answers. 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:20.480 And I'm always, I'm always very cautious of that. 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:30.319 And so it's when they feel frustrated, when a person feels like they've done everything they can, then it's time it's time to punt. 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:30.799 Yeah. 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:39.759 Now I asked that question in terms of okay, church care for someone, but I mean it could very easily just apply to family, right? 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:46.160 The kids' network, uh the adults' networks, all of a sudden that support network, there is a time to punt. 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:46.880 That is correct. 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:47.839 That is correct. 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:53.759 But other therapists as well, because not all therapists are are equally competent. 00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:00.400 I mean, part of what I taught at universities over 40 years, I taught therapists how to be therapists. 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:11.519 And so I have this, I don't know how many hundreds and hundreds of people I've taught to be um therapists. 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:20.640 And so I have a very jaundiced opinion of the training people get to be therapists. 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:27.359 And in the end, what the research always tends to show, it's the person, not the therapy. 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:32.160 So you could know everything about how to do therapy and be a lousy therapist. 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:46.240 But in the end, so it's really the training each person has, the understanding, the wisdom, um, which is why it's really hard for a you know, uh someone in their mid-twenties to be a good therapist. 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:50.160 They don't have the experience, they they may not have the wisdom. 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:59.440 Because in the end, therapy is not about technique, it's about the person and the person's ability to connect with other people. 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.759 So that's excellent. 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:14.799 And if I can if I can add to that, you know, I mean, um Nola and I both working in the student ministry world, you know, if we have volunteers, one of the things that we recommend is step into student ministry. 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:19.119 Don't wait for your child to be student ministry aged to get ready. 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:25.279 Come in, get some experience, work on some other people's kids, show them some love, uh, occasionally practice the punt, right? 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:34.160 We do all that, and so you have that little bit of a, you know, um, and you'll hear more about it in episode four, that whole development of the frontal cortex. 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:36.319 Get that experience as well, you know. 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.640 Yeah, practicing other people's kids. 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:39.279 There you go. 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.279 Student ministry, come get them. 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:42.480 Okay. 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:48.960 What are some practical ways people can remember the hope of the gospel as they walk through a season of suffering? 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:54.640 The hope of the gospel. 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:59.599 Well, probably it's a hard, it's a hard thing for a person to hear. 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:02.079 You are not alone. 00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:07.759 And that's probably the most important thing a person can hear and believe. 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:09.680 You are not alone. 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:15.599 You're not only with God, but with a community. 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:20.799 And it's hard for a person who's been alone to accept community. 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:27.200 Because in the past, community has failed them over and over again, especially with trauma. 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:41.039 And so for anyone, especially kids, to hear you are not alone is a really a big thing for a person to accept. 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:50.400 In the same vein, what are some practical ways the church body can help those facing crisis, pain, or trauma? 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:01.519 To know when they're not being helpful. 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:08.799 One of the things, everyone thinks they're helpful is the problem. 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:11.279 Research shows that's not true. 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:23.279 And so I think it's really to know, to be able to listen to whoever's sitting in front of you and know, okay, I'm listening carefully, nothing's happening. 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:29.200 And that, yeah, almost here from within is nothing happening. 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:34.240 And usually for me, it means there's no juice, not not, there's no interaction. 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:42.079 Um, the other person seems very too quiet or too unfocused or too kind of out of it. 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:46.160 And that will make me begin to worry, okay, what's happening here? 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:54.079 Because usually in in therapy, there's always a sense of um that something is happening. 00:23:54.079 --> 00:24:02.319 They're having to uh reconcile ideas with themselves, which means they're elevated in their uh anxiety, if you will. 00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:03.759 That that's therapy. 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:19.759 So when a person is being too quiet or too um just into themselves, then I'm worrying, okay, what's happening in that person to have it be that quiet or that unfocused, because that that's worrisome. 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:58.720 So it's it's almost like the person who has the opportunity to minister to the person in the midst of trauma has to keep their thoughts captive just as much as the person that needs counseling and and needs to want to have care and needs to put in the work to start healing um just as much as the counselee, like the person that has the opportunity to speak into somebody who is hurting needs to know, okay, I need to make sure that I'm not um being unhelpful. 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:08.240 I'm not uh saying things that are unhelpful and making sure that I'm paying attention to, okay, this this person's behavior has changed. 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:09.200 What's going on here? 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:15.920 How do I ask questions that are um a ministry to this person and not hurting that person? 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:16.960 So that's cool. 00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:21.359 Well, look at it this way: if you're talking, the client's not. 00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:27.519 And therefore, I'm worried then what what are you saying that's going to be useful to the client? 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:30.480 So if you're silent, it allows the client to talk. 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.559 Just from a pragmatic perspective, who has airtime? 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:35.039 Yeah. 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:44.079 For those interested in learning more about um trauma-informed counseling or care for students, I will highlight an upcoming event, right? 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.400 Uh the 2024 Hope Conference. 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:51.279 It's going to be at uh Piedmont Park Alliance Church January 27th. 00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.519 Um, it's called Trauma Informed Counseling, a Biblical Perspective. 00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:59.039 And so by this particular point, you've heard two interviews. 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:06.640 Um, we did mention last time this particular conference coming in place, but if you want, www.tallycounseling.com. 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:11.920 It's a conference put together by the Tallahassee Bapt uh Biblical Counseling Ministries. 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:18.559 If you are interested in continuing this learning process uh that Professor Um Dr. 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:24.480 Smith has introduced to us, I just encourage you to go into that and seek some additional assistance. 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.039 So on that note, we love you. 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:28.559 We thank you for your time. 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:29.839 God bless. 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:36.400 Celebration family, thanks for listening. 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:41.599 Be sure to listen to each and every sermon and podcast tied to the Scar series. 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:46.559 God bless you.