SPEAKER_00: Well, hello celebration, and welcome to the podcast today.
SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about integrity, and I'm really happy to have Mark Ritt with me today.
SPEAKER_00: Mark's a name that is known by football fans all across the Southeast and especially here in Tallahassee.
SPEAKER_00: Mark was the offensive coordinator for FSU through two national championships, head coach at the University of Georgia for 15 years, head coach at the University of Miami for three years, and now serves as an analyst on the ACC network.
SPEAKER_00: Mark, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_00: Glad to have you.
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to be here.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
SPEAKER_00: And Mark, as I mentioned, we're talking about integrity today, and this is such an important topic.
SPEAKER_00: I know that for me as a pastor, uh in my profession, it seems like man, two, three times a year, there's a major blowout of integrity among somebody inside the pastoral community.
SPEAKER_00: There's a moral failing or something along those lines, and I know that I'm not the only one.
SPEAKER_00: You've seen it in your career, uh, and I doubt there's anybody in any profession that can't look at a key leader in their field that hasn't had a moral collapse or a failure of their integrity.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and they can probably trace one back just to the last couple of years.
SPEAKER_00: And so as I've spent time thinking about integrity today, I think for most people, when we think about it, we go to character, we go to being honest, to being trustworthy, but integrity goes really past uh just those moral qualities.
SPEAKER_00: For example, uh somebody can be a person of integrity or demonstrate integrity if they can win without being ruined by that success.
SPEAKER_00: Or they can be a person of integrity if they lose in such a way that they're not overwhelmed by that loss, but instead they're able to help other people uh navigate through that loss and recover from it, and everybody moves on.
SPEAKER_00: So integrity is about more than just in character, it's about how we leverage that character to influence other people for good.
SPEAKER_00: And over the years, I'm sure that you've encountered men and women of great integrity who've leveraged their integrity for the influence of others.
SPEAKER_00: And so, who are some of those people that come to mind for you?
SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, I just want to at least give my view on what I think integrity is.
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I think it's a pursuit more than a destiny.
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you ever become a person that's truly has integrity or wholeness.
SPEAKER_01: Uh I think that uh, you know, when we become believers, our spirit and soul uh certainly become perfect, but our behavior lags behind because we're still in these bodies and we still uh you know have these sin habits in our brain, and and uh Satan tries to mess with us all the time, so we're we're always uh battling for the pursuit of integrity, or at least that's the way I see it.
SPEAKER_01: Um but um you know I I think some of the people that uh exemplify it the most, I would start with my dad.
SPEAKER_01: Um he was a very quiet man, uh a pretty unassuming guy, but uh he his nickname actually at work at IBM was Honest Lou.
SPEAKER_01: But people thought of him as a man of integrity and a man who pursued it.
SPEAKER_01: Um he was a man of few words, but he went to work every day, he took care of business, he he uh uh provided and protected our family and helped raise five kids, you know.
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like my dad was, you know, the first model for me of what integrity looks like.
SPEAKER_01: And then uh another man in my life was Roger Coffey, a high school football coach, who uh was um a guy who I loved dearly because he he loved the sport and he uh helped me become the player I became, I guess.
SPEAKER_01: Uh but uh as far as integrity, I'd have to say Bobby Bowden next to my dad.
SPEAKER_01: Coach Bowden uh um is a man who truly uh had God as his first priority, uh family as his second priority, and football is his third, and that's it's hard to do in this business of major college football, and he's succeeded as well as anybody, you know, ever whoever coached the game.
SPEAKER_00: Think about your dad and and Bobby Bowden and your high school coach for a moment.
SPEAKER_00: How did they demonstrate their integrity when things were going well or when things were going poorly?
SPEAKER_00: Can you think of specific moments in any of those three men's lives where you saw that integrity on display?
SPEAKER_01: Well, Coach Bowden um would always tell us in our hideaway meetings, which were meetings that we would talk about philosophy.
SPEAKER_01: We'd talk, it was the off-season meeting just to talk about everything that involves that's involved with the program and making sure our we got our ducks in a row, but we'd also talk about philosophy, and and he would always say uh rule number one was loyalty, and he said we need to be loyal to each other.
SPEAKER_01: He said, um uh there'll be times I gotta be loyal to you, there'll be times you gotta be loyal to me.
SPEAKER_01: We must be loyal to each other.
SPEAKER_01: He said, but if any of you guys cheat when it comes to recruiting, I'm not gonna be loyal to that.
SPEAKER_01: And so for me, you know, that was my first year as a graduate assistant coach, first year of major college coaching, and I didn't know what, you know, you hear the war stories about the cheating that goes on in recruiting, and you're thinking, if I'm gonna be a coach, am I gonna have to do that to survive?
SPEAKER_01: And then my boss tells me day one, if you cheat, you're out.
SPEAKER_01: So that was music to my ears, and uh really made a big difference for me as a coach, is uh not only as an assistant coach, working under him, under him for 15 years, but also as a head coach.
SPEAKER_00: Now you mentioned earlier your faith in Christ, and as I understand it, you came to know Christ here in Tallahassee, and Bobby Bowden was uh kind of an integral part of that.
SPEAKER_00: Tell me that story of how you came to know Christ.
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know how much time you have, I'll do a condensed version, but long story short, there was a player who was shot and killed uh during an open date, and uh Coach Bowden had called a meeting the very next day uh to uh gather everybody up.
SPEAKER_01: And um he basically his the kid's name was Pablo Lopez.
SPEAKER_01: He was a big six foot five, two hundred and eighty-five-pound offensive lineman, uh, kid out of Miami of Cuban descent, and uh was a was kind of a jokester and a friend of everybody, red or yellow, black and white.
SPEAKER_01: Everybody kind of loved Pablo, but he still had a rough edge to him if you pushed him the wrong way.
SPEAKER_01: Well, long story short, there was a there was a party on campus.
SPEAKER_01: Somebody got their feelings hurt, got their pride hurt in front of their buddies, went and got a gun, brought it back to the party, uh, points the gun at Pablo.
SPEAKER_01: Pablo's like, you're not gonna shoot me, bro.
SPEAKER_01: And uh the kid panicked and shot him.
SPEAKER_01: And that's how he died that night.
SPEAKER_01: But uh so anyway, Coach Bowden is talking to the team the next day, and he says, I don't know where Pablo is right now.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know where he'll spend eternity.
SPEAKER_01: I don't know where he was in his faith.
SPEAKER_01: He said, but there's a God in heaven who uh loves you, who loves you and created you and wants you to spend eternity with him in heaven.
SPEAKER_01: But the problem is the standard for heaven is perfection, and uh we all fall short, you know.
SPEAKER_01: Ten Commandments weren't given to say uh obey these ten commandments, you get to go to heaven because it's impossible for us to uh obey them.
SPEAKER_01: And that that's what they were there for, to show us we were in need of a savior.
SPEAKER_01: And uh that savior is Jesus Christ, his son.
SPEAKER_01: And so he just said, if you accept that gift, um, then uh you you'll be saved, and you can spend eternity uh in heaven with God.
SPEAKER_01: And uh so there anyway, uh the chair that Pablo used to sit in was empty, and he said, Man, Pablo used to sit in that chair right there.
SPEAKER_01: He said, He said, You guys are 18 to 22 years old.
SPEAKER_01: You think you're gonna live forever?
SPEAKER_01: Like Pablo probably thought he was gonna live forever, and now he's gone.
SPEAKER_01: He said, If that was you last night instead of Pablo, do you know where you'd spend eternity?
SPEAKER_01: Well, he's he's talking to the team, but I'm in the back of the room.
SPEAKER_01: And uh some seeds that were planted in my college days from a buddy who became a believer came to fruition, and I was like, if it was me last night, I know where I'd go, and it's not a very good place.
SPEAKER_01: And so the next day uh knocked on his door and uh he said, Come on in, buddy.
SPEAKER_01: He calls you buddy when he forgets your name.
SPEAKER_01: But um I came in there and uh said, I know you're talking to the team, but do you mind if a young coach comes and sees you about this?
SPEAKER_01: And uh he said, sure.
SPEAKER_01: And so I came in and prayed to receive Christ that day, and um everything changed uh dramatically.
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know exactly what had happened to my spirit and soul at the at that moment, but I I knew that my goals had changed from very self-centered goals about me, me, me to being Christ-centered and just wanting to live a life that would that God would be pleased with, you know.
SPEAKER_01: So simple goal, not necessarily easy to carry out, but uh but that's been my goal ever since.
SPEAKER_00: You know, that goal to live a life that God would be pleased with really is centered around integrity.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned that Coach Bowden was one of those people of integrity that you'd seen throughout your lifetime.
SPEAKER_00: How did he influence you to become a person of integrity in your own right?
SPEAKER_01: Well, I just watched him, you know, he modeled it.
SPEAKER_01: It was very simple to uh see uh the type of man he was working for, you know, you can't hide your wars for 15 years, and uh you can't even do it for one season for that matter.
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, to be able to work for him all that time and and just observe how he handled the good times and the bad times, uh, how he treated us, how he treated his family, his wife, his children, um it was just easy to see that uh he was he was a man of that was pursuing integrity.
SPEAKER_01: And uh and I, you know, it was very attractive to me.
SPEAKER_01: And just to go a little further with it, when I left to become head coach, um, you know, a lot of coaches go to five different schools before they get their shot at being head coach.
SPEAKER_01: I was basically at one, and I was under Coach Bowden, so I kind of knew one way, the Florida State way, the Bobby Bowden way.
SPEAKER_01: And uh so that became simple for me too.
SPEAKER_01: I I just tried to emulate a lot of things that he did, and even though he didn't sit down with me and teach me how to be a head coach as I watched him, uh I learned a lot about how to be that and uh very thankful for that.
SPEAKER_00: So you've got this guy who helps you come to know Christ and then who models integrity for you and has enormous influence in you developing your own sense of integrity.
SPEAKER_00: What about your faith in Christ?
SPEAKER_00: How does your faith in Christ affect your your drive to be a man of integrity?
SPEAKER_01: Well, it affects everything.
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh if I were to say I had a life verse, it would be Colossians 3.23.
SPEAKER_01: You know, whatever you do, do you work hardly unto the Lord rather than men?
SPEAKER_01: And uh, of course, I think people sometimes get too worked up about what's God want me to do, what's God want me to do?
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if he cares as much what we do, but how we do it.
SPEAKER_01: Because he says, whatever you do, do your work heartily, do it the best you can, and do it unto me rather than man.
SPEAKER_01: And what that says to me is uh, you know, when you are only accountable to man, to your boss, and he he's watching you, and you do things a certain way when he's watching you, what do you do when he's not watching you?
SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you do it unto the Lord, he sees everything, and you know he sees everything.
SPEAKER_01: So that's the highest accountability a person can have.
SPEAKER_01: If we truly love God and we want to love him back, he wants us to obey.
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, we obey by learning his word and listening to gifted pastors like yourself and then putting it to practice.
SPEAKER_00: So you've had to live this and pursue integrity in your Christian life in the spotlight.
SPEAKER_00: There have been times that probably some fair frustrating moments.
SPEAKER_00: You've had thousands of eyes on you.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00: And so it's given you influence, that spotlight, but it also comes with a tremendous amount of risk, I would imagine.
SPEAKER_00: How has that spotlight forced you to live with a heightened sense and awareness of your own?
SPEAKER_01: It definitely uh helps you behave, I think, and helped me behave.
SPEAKER_01: And I and I certainly didn't behave perfect, and I still don't.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but uh when you know that uh your job uh is one that if if for example um if I were to have a drink or two and get a DUI and give the university an excuse to let me go, then not only can you get fired for a cause and never and not have to get paid, they don't have to pay you, but the other thing is all those people that were under you are looking for work too.
SPEAKER_01: Because usually when the new head coach comes in, he he brings in his staff.
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's so many people count on you.
SPEAKER_01: Then there's all the recruits that you promise their parents that you're gonna take care of their son and you're gonna be there for them and all that kind of thing, and all of a sudden you're gone.
SPEAKER_01: So just you know, one one drink and uh somebody even runs into you or something bad happens and you've got alcohol in your breath, you got a problem.
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, does that I mean, even today, I won't have anything to drink and take and get behind the wheel.
SPEAKER_01: And for 26 years during my coaching time, I didn't drink anything, period.
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, now we'll have a casual truly or something like that once in a while.
SPEAKER_01: But uh if I drink anything, there's no way I'm getting behind the wheel.
SPEAKER_00: So that spotlight comes around, drives your integrity.
SPEAKER_00: You mentioned setting alcohol aside uh is one thing, but what are some of the strategies that you've had to develop over the years to protect and preserve your integrity?
SPEAKER_01: Well, again, you again, if your goal, if you have like all these this list of stuff to do, it can be pretty confusing and after a while that'll wear you out.
SPEAKER_01: But you know, for me, again, I would always ask myself, you know, would God be pleased with this?
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, anytime I made a decision, if I had time to pray about it, I would pray about it till I had peace.
SPEAKER_01: When I had peace, then I would I would, you know, make the decision.
SPEAKER_01: If I had to make a decision quickly, hopefully I was in a good place where I could make a quick decision and make it make the one that God would like.
SPEAKER_01: But um but the other thing that you have to do is, or for me anyway, when I'd put my head on the pillow at night after making a big decision, if I had peace, I went to sleep.
SPEAKER_01: If I didn't have peace, I made sure I got up the next morning and sometimes changed the decision.
SPEAKER_01: Just say, you know what?
SPEAKER_01: I said we're gonna do this, but I I don't believe it's the right thing to do.
SPEAKER_01: We're changing course and uh be able to admit that you messed up and uh and try to make it right.
SPEAKER_00: So I think every leader who's interested in leading with a measure of integrity has got to deal with demonstrating that integrity when they're facing you know criticism for a decision they've made or for something that's happened.
SPEAKER_00: And as a coach, you dealing with criticism was a part of your daily daily deal.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you never got away from it.
SPEAKER_00: Was there a time when you found it very hard to navigate that criticism with integrity?
SPEAKER_01: Well, um Coach Bowden at the hideaway meeting we talked about a while ago, I think the note number two was uh um criticism.
SPEAKER_01: He says if you can't handle criticism, get out of coaching because it's it's coming.
SPEAKER_01: And it's not just coaching, it's leadership period, as you know.
SPEAKER_01: Uh you could be a parent and you're a leader and you make a decision that your kids aren't really happy with.
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's gonna be critics every time you make a decision.
SPEAKER_01: Someone's gonna be happy and someone's gonna be bent out of shape.
SPEAKER_01: And again, you have to decide who you're gonna please.
SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna please the uh player?
SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna please the parent?
SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna please the uh fans or the athletic director?
SPEAKER_01: Or am I gonna try to please God?
SPEAKER_01: You know, so you know, for me again, it came back to would this would this please God?
SPEAKER_01: Would this be in line with his word?
SPEAKER_01: And or would it not?
SPEAKER_01: And if it would, then do it.
SPEAKER_01: And if people don't like it, well, that's that's just part of it.
SPEAKER_01: You know, you you just understand that there's always gonna be a group that don't agree with what you have to say.
SPEAKER_00: So for you then that criticism, when that criticism comes, your integrity really kind of sounds like acts as a backstop.
SPEAKER_00: It's just like that's as far back as I can go, and that's a line I'm not gonna cross.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean uh you can't make a decision based on how hard the wind's blowing, and uh and just trying to appease somebody to uh make things right.
SPEAKER_01: And when you when you do that, it usually doesn't turn out very well, and you just cause a bigger problem down the road.
SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, and I think once people understand uh, you know, who you are, what you're about, it's not going to shock them if you make certain decisions that would be in line with God's word.
SPEAKER_00: So when you're facing critique and pushback and you navigate through that with integrity, how have you seen that decision to be a person of integrity in that moment?
SPEAKER_00: Uh what does it do to your influence?
SPEAKER_00: With players, with other coaches?
SPEAKER_01: Well, most of the time, most of the time people respect it.
SPEAKER_01: Most of the time they do.
SPEAKER_01: Even if they don't like it, they respect it.
SPEAKER_01: Um so um, you know, that's that's important.
SPEAKER_01: And the other thing too is um when you have God's word as a plumb line, then you become consistent in how you deal with things.
SPEAKER_01: Let's say discipline, for example.
SPEAKER_01: You know, if if today this is okay, but tomorrow it's not okay, all you do is create confusion.
SPEAKER_01: Or if or if this guy does it, it's not okay, but if this guy does it, it is okay, that creates confusion and and jealousy and everything else that comes from that.
SPEAKER_01: So when you stay consistent in your decision-making process in regard to, you know, how it aligns with God's word, then when you become when you become consistent, they they understand this is the way it's going to be, and uh there's no confusion about it.
SPEAKER_00: You know, you uh I know you to be a man who loves his family very much.
SPEAKER_00: Uh you've uh maintained a uh, by all appearances, a really healthy marriage with Catherine.
SPEAKER_00: You've got four kids, you've got grandkids.
SPEAKER_00: Uh how is your personal quest for integrity influenced and impacted your home life?
SPEAKER_01: Well, again, you know, I mean, I think uh Catherine needs to know that uh I love her like Christ loved the church.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that uh even though I worked a lot of hours and wasn't always around all the time, there was a big burden on her to raise the kids and do a lot of things.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, she knew that I loved her dearly.
SPEAKER_01: She knew that uh she was it for me.
SPEAKER_01: She had uh confidence that uh I wasn't looking around or anything like that.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and she didn't she knew that I'd I would do anything for her and the kids.
SPEAKER_01: And so that gave her the confidence to be able to say, well, you know, we can get we can get through anything together.
SPEAKER_01: And uh also give her the strength to do the things that a coach's wife's got to do when these coaches are running around chasing recruits and all those other things.
SPEAKER_00: Well, Mark, I'm so thankful that you've taken time to sit down with me today, and thanks for being a person of integrity and for all that you've modeled throughout your entire career.
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing my best and I'm I'm getting there.