What If Your Purpose Was There All Along? A Conversation on Aging, Freedom & Soul

What if you stopped trying to figure out your purpose... and started noticing the thread that has been running through your life all along?

In this episode of The Wisdom Trust Podcast, Loren Crawford sits down with author, music historian, songwriter, and self-described Soul Ambassador, David Nathan.

At 78, David reflects on a remarkable life that took him from London to New York, into the world of soul music, and ultimately into a deeper understanding of purpose, creativity, intuition, and conscious aging.

Together they explore:

• Finding purpose later in life
• Why intuition matters more than strategy
• Reinventing yourself after 50
• The freedom that comes with aging
• Creativity, music, and self-expression
• What it means to live authentically
• The wisdom that only comes with experience

For gay men over 50, this conversation offers a powerful reminder that there is no expiration date on growth, creativity, joy, or becoming more fully yourself.

The Wisdom Trust is a community for thoughtful gay men who want deeper connection, meaningful friendship, emotional honesty, and a richer second half of life.

👉Find David here: https://davidnathan.com/

 👉Learn more and join The Wisdom Trust community. (links below)

Chapters
01:25 Introduction to David Nathan
05:50 Music as a spiritual path
12:55 The song lyric that shaped his life
19:10 Discovering purpose through a lifetime of clues
25:45 From "British Ambassador of Soul" to "Soul Ambassador"
32:35 Freedom from labels and expectations
41:40 Receiving appreciation and recognition
50:55 Aging, joy, and redefining fun
59:05 Trusting intuition over fear
1:07:25 Wisdom for the second half of life
1:13:25 Where to find David Nathan

Come Meet Your People at The Wisdom Trust:
👉Skool: https://www.skool.com/the-wisdom-trust/about
👉Subscack: https://thewisdomtrust.substack.com
👉YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheWisdomTrust50
👉Web: https://wisdomtrust50.com/
👉Podcast webpage: https://wisdomtrust50.com/conversations

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Wisdom Trats. I'm Lauren Crawford. This podcast is for gay men over 50 who sense there's more to this stage of life than we've been taught. Connection, meaning, honesty, and possibility. Each episode is a conversation with a thoughtful gay man who's navigating the deeper questions that often emerge in the second half of life. Aging, identity, purpose, belonging, reinvention, community, love, and living consciously. These are not conversations about decline, they are conversations about becoming. I'm glad you're here. So welcome back, everyone. We are here today with David Nathan. I'm so grateful for him participating in this from across the big pond. Before we dive in, just to remind you all that these are conversations that we're having with people from a whole range of lives, life-lived experience. These aren't about being celebrities. Although David's a celebrity in his own right, these aren't about all, you know, all of the influencers and stuff. We're real people having real conversations and affecting our sense of storytelling to transform. That's what this is all about. And ultimately building some community in terms of our wisdom trust program and community. So I'm going to tell you a little bit about David. So David describes himself as multi-hyphenated creator, working for many years in the world of soul music as a scribe and historian. He's an author of three books, the most recent of which is Through Seven Lives, The Reincarnational Journey. He's lived in London and currently and was 34 years in America before returning to the UK in 2009. He's an openly gay single wink wink, a senior at 78 Wonderful Years. So welcome so much to our podcast, David. It's so great to have you here. And based on what we've just shared, I'd like you to go a little bit deeper. Tell us a little bit more about who you are. Who is David?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Who am I? Well, firstly, thank you for including me in the podcast. I'm very grateful to you for that and for the opportunity to share whatever I can that may make some difference somewhere with someone. Who am I? Wow. Do you want to do a British version? I guess you do. I mean, how you describe me is essentially how I would describe myself. I grew up in London. I was born in 1948, February 1948. I lived in London until 1975. Most of my early life was really became about music. It wasn't initially. I think that at some point, well, I know at some point I wanted to become a diplomat. And that was really based in the idea of being able to bring some kind of uh I could say peace to the world. I don't know where that came from. It wasn't anything in my family. I just something that I think I came in with, so to speak. And so that was many years I was thinking I was going to be a diplomat. And then the thing that really happened was music showed up. When I say showed up, I mean like many of the people in my generation, I was quite taken with the Beatles and the and the liver pudding peeps. And you know, I was supposed to pop music. And then I think the turning point really was when I first started hearing what we would call rhythm of blues or R and B back then. And that became a very serious part of my DNA in a sense, in a way. And that began with three singers who are quite well known now. Dion Warwick, as you call it in America, Warwick in England, then Nina Simone, for whom I studied in an Appreciation Society fan club, and then Aretha Franklin. And I didn't think at that point I was I wasn't thinking about a career in music or as a journalist. And I like to think that a lot of my life has been organic, uh not planned. And uh so bottom line is I began, I had a record show up, then after the record show up, I was became writing for a company, writing for a magazine, I should say, called Blues and Soul. And I loved writing. That was I found a real passion for. And at some point in 1975, I decided I wanted to go to New York. I'd been there once before to really make a career as a music journalist, so to speak. I did not know how that was gonna go. And it was originally a three-month trial period that ultimately ended up in 30 as 34 years. So this will show you how how life can be organic. It doesn't always go according. I've never had, honestly, to be honest with you, Lauren, I have never had many plans as such. I don't plans in in the way that many other people do. And so that's the background in a sense. And then you know, I became known for my work. And uh I don't know if you'd say I was a celebrity, but I would say I were a lot of celebrities. And I think the thing that really uh helped me a lot was my was my build my dedication to what I did. And I wasn't looking for scandal, I wasn't looking for I was looking for find I was finding out what made the people I interviewed tick. What was in it's all about their music. I mean, that was the main thing, and I can say that really uh in in hindsight, what I discovered in the world of soul music as it became known was this kind of passion for the pat the passion of soul music. So one thing I want to say up front is that I've never been a journalist in an intellectual sense. I've been a it's always for me as lived. So the music I was listening to that moved me, it moved me. It wasn't like, oh, let me figure out who was on the record and why did the artist record. No, it's really about music as I lived, and and that has been the guiding principle through everything I've done, because that's how I relate to the music itself. It's you know, it the times growing up, to make it briefly, you know, when I was the first thing going through my earliest relationship experiences, it was the music that got me through. It really is. And sometimes I think that if I didn't have music or soul music, I would have had a very different life. And so I think that that's so it's really been my the essence of what I do.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

It sounds like the the music uh has a real spiritual connection almost for you. Is that is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 6:59

That's true, and it's very true, Lauren. And to say that one of the first one of the things I realized when I first started living in New York was how much gospel music, particularly the the the black gospel music of the church was really at the foundation of what soul music was. And so you could say that that, yes, and I I can not go into it right now, but I'll say the first time I went to what I call a black church or a black gospel church, it was pretty intense, you know. And yeah, so so yes, I think that has a lot to do with uh you know what's informed my love of the music, and as an intellectual, I've danced to music, I've sung to music, I've done other things to music. So, yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

And you write your own, you write your own music to a degree, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yes, yes, yes. And and and just to say that um if I really think about my first um ambitions, so to speak, was singing. I love singing, and I still sing. I usually sing in my living room and occasionally sing for others, but not often. Yeah, it's the singing, it's an expression of it. And and I works on it, you mentioned about uh recording, because I originally did a little tabulation. Apparently, I've I've recorded over 40, I've had over 40 recordings available to listen to, and and it's kind of funny, it kind of almost happened, not without a plan. So, yes, it's still some that what one of the greatest loves I have in life is actually recording. I love recording.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Oh, I love watching songs. That's amazing. And you're you're like the anti-strategy guy. It's so great because you know, I've just been inundated with strategy, try this strategy. You need this strategy to grow your business, blah, blah, blah. So I'm loving this this sort of anti-strategy approach to life. Is there a is there a particular lyric? Because I I I know I've read a few of your Substack posts, and you're very good at pulling out a lyric and sort of talking about it from a really heart-centered place. So I'm gonna put you on the spot and say, is there a particular lyric or maybe an element of a song either you could share with us the power of that lyric when it just comes to mind, or you could sing it for us?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Wow, that is putting me on the spot. Well, wow, that is a challenging question. Not because I don't want to sing it, I'm I probably could sing a couple of lines, but it's really what what is there one? There's probably more than one. But it's funny what comes to mind. So I'll preface it by telling you a little bit about it, and then I might say a couple of lines for you and everyone. Uh, it's a song that was written by Curtis Mayfield, who is what I was considered to be one of the sole poets of life. He wrote so many great songs for many people and recorded itself as a solo artist. And this song I first heard by the group Last Night the Pips. It was on a soundtrack for a movie called Claudine, and the lyrics of it are very in a sense simple, but they're also they they require some better comprehension. But there's some and and I did record the song in 2006. Um as a in a very dark setting, just a piano, saxophone, and so having said that you should have warned me. I need to say that's okay now. Husky, it might be the husky, but that's all right, all right. A little sugar, honey suckle lamb, a great expression of happiness. Boy can miss with a dozen roses, such would astound you the joy of laughter around you. These are the makings of you. It is true the makings of you.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

There you go, that's beautiful. I love that. And tell me about those lyrics and how how they speak to your heart.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Well, I mean, the song is called The Makings of You. It's just very poetic, and very the song feels very poetic to me. And and and I I mean, I just think of some of the lines and the joy of of la of laughter surrounding you. You know, um these are the makings of you. The essence of of who uh you are. I mean, I am people are, and and so that's really the thing of it. And I mean I could have picked so many different songs, yeah, but that one it that's the lyrics just you know, it's got a whole more, it's got more lyric than that. Yeah, that's it. It's really simple. And I guess it really does speak to the essence of uh of the makings of one, and in case the makings of me. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yeah, and I think that that's thank you for sharing that, you know. And what comes up first, so that song, those lyrics when I put you on the spot, that's that's um something we need to trust, right? That came up for a reason. The universe brought that forward for a reason. We're sharing this with others for a reason, and the simplicity message, just like the non-strategy message, is really powerful. We we, you know, this thing here can get in our way of just making everything so complicated, right? So I think that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I haven't done it by the way. The last time I did what I just did and singing a cappella like that was my birthday in February 2023 when I was in Los Angeles and I had policy and blah blah blah. And and I just did it in the moment, no one asked me to sing, I just did it for everyone around either. I sang a little bit more of it then. So it really means something to me.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Well, thank you for honoring us with that. We're gonna shift gears a little bit here. And I'm calling this part of the conversation the pivot. Now, this can be anything, a turning point that occurred in your life at some point after 50 or not, as the case may be, where something happened. It could have been a loss, it could have been a decision that was made, it could have been, you know, a relationship, a realization, anything like that that as a particular moment that had some impact or shifted somehow how you were being David.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah, I I I I've given some thought after you re-presence the it that way for me. I would say that um I think it was discovering being really clear of what my purpose in life has been. And it really didn't happen like overnight. I think that as I start to as I start to mature, uh look back at my life from a different place, like you know, looking through the lens of time, you know, you know, how how has my life path been? What's it been about? And I'm almost prone to say, to sing, but I'm not going to, the lyric from from the song Alfie. You know, what's it all about, Alfie? But yeah, what is life about? And I and then I've had to look from a place of seeing there was a thread. And the thread was that how my life has been has been fulfilling what I came for, so to speak. I know that sounds a little may sound a little lofty. Um and you know, I have never had another career. I mean, I've been work I've done other things in life where I got you know paid to do for things at different times I didn't work for people that wasn't specifically in the world of of music or soul music. But that hasn't been very often. And most of my life's been about dedicating myself to the uh to sharing about the music, particularly the music of a certain community in particular. Doesn't mean I don't like other kinds of music, but that's been the community which I wasn't uh born into in this lifetime that that that I resonate with and have resonated with. So I think the pivot moment was only it wasn't that many years ago when I uh yeah occurred to me that that's what my life's been about. And it was it has informed what I want to do for the rest of it.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

I love that. And what a gift, right? So many of us, you know, I I've been a purpose coach for a long time, helping people to kind of delve in there. And again, there's there's these stories and these limitations. Now I call them the saboteurs that get in get in our way to prevent us from really connecting to that purpose. What a gift that you were able to tap into it at a young age, and it's it's kind of been the commonality through your whole life, and you've been able to make a beautiful you know living from it.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

And well let me let me just say whether it's been a beautiful living or not isn't necessarily true. And beautiful isn't always banking, you know. Yeah, I get it, I get I get it, I get it, yeah, I get it, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

No, I love that, I love that. And and so much so that as I understand it, you've actually recoined who you identify as at this stage. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah. I okay, so there's an what we call an orange in moment when through my work writing particularly for a magazine called Blues and Soul, which was American, as well as starting to write for other other publications. And this would have been in 1993, when someone wrote an article about me for Blues and Soul, and they were celebrating my 15th anniversary, I think, writing in America. And during the course of that conversation, the person who interviewed me, who was a friend of mine, said, Well, what did you want to do before you started getting interviews? And I said, Well, I always wanted to be a diplomat. That was really what I wanted to do. And I said, It's kind of funny now. I say, I guess I have been like an ambassador in a sense. And he said, Wow, and that is he, I think he really coined the phrase, the British ambassador of soul. Love it. Oh, I love it. You know, and it was fine. I mean, you know, I thought it was hilarious that in a funny kind of way, what I really always wanted to do is be an ambassador, someone who could make a difference and you know, bring people together. And the music was the thing that was really the vehicle for that. So so that was how that title came about. And of course, I was rec I was cognizant that there was a queen of soul, Aretha, there was a godfather of soul, James Brown. There was a sap sometimes people call Otis Redding, the king of soul, and of course, this prince, who wasn't a prince of soul, but prince. So I felt like I belonged in the court of the royal court of soul. There you go. And so I used that for a long time as my as a as a handle or as a brand in a way that you know people sometimes people laughed at it. I would say that when I came back to England, Britain, England, it was a little difficult because how could you have a British ambassador of soul in Britain? And it worked in America. I don't know that it worked so much in England because but that's a whole other conversation about how people in Britain related to me when I came back, which was not so much fun. Anyway, recently, uh by virtue of doing some other work and coaching, yeah, I reinvented myself in a sense, beyond the British ambassador of soul to being soul ambassador, because that allows for a lot more of what I can create, write about, that isn't just about music. So if that's what you're referring to, that's a recent reinvention.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

Beautiful. I love that, and that kind of relates to the next theme. We're gonna like just shift a little bit here. And so when you made that transition from you know, ambassador of soul to this new iteration, what did that free you from? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Two things. It freed me from being confined in a way to having to do the thing write about on my website and in my in my sub stack if you from having to be writing about music, or being not only for that. And and so it was a freedom to write about whatever I want. And because I love, I still I've reclaimed my love of writing. And the reclaiming of it is not about because well, let me say, so much of the writing I have done is about others, it's about you know sh interviewing people, talking about them, about their lives, their their music, and so forth. And and and so now I feel like I can share about myself, my life, my stories, and there's a freedom in being able to do that as soul ambassador that wouldn't have been there so much as a British ambassador of soul. And and so that's really where the freedom, for me, the freedom is is letting go of a of an of a the limitations of a of a name that could keep me confined. You know, and I also know that people in music room, that's also been true. You know, when you get called whatever you get called, queen of soul, whatever, it could also be confining. Now they might not follow it that way, but I but I see that that that I it's fine, you it outlived this usefulness, and now I feel like there's some freedom to really write about anything. And I started doing that in a sense on my Substack. I'm gonna do much more of it. And also in light of the fact I have this book that you meant the book that came out, as you mentioned, which is not, you know, yes, it's about my soul, but it's not just about my soul. It's it that's called a reincarnational journey to give people a hint. And there's so much in that that I want to share about. And I feel like I can now do that. I've I've given myself permission in a sense to be free to write about reincarnation, the incarnations in there, just about about life, you know, and and there's it feels great to do that. It really does. So that's where the freedom, freedom from and freedom to be fully expressive as a writer. And I want to say one more thing about that, because you know, really, when I go back to the early my early life as a child, you know, I I remember we were, you know, I was in primary school, and the English teacher, Mr. Edwards, gave us a sort of project. And he said, We I want you all to write a story, make up a story, just make one up. Now, okay. And in that moment, I still I can still see the story in the book, in my little exercise book. And it was about it, I can't even remember what it was about. It was about this group of people on an island and they were being chased by these monsters. I even did some illustration for it, and I don't know how it all turned out, but it was really, I guess for a nine-year-old or 10-year-old, it was quite well written. And Mr. Edwards said, David, this is really wonderful. And you know, that validation because I didn't realize, I had no idea that that was, you know, some I might I did it because I did it, because of the assignment, but but I and then the moment I guess I discovered how much I love writing. And then the other thing that followed up was writing a love story, which was caused a lot of upset in my amongst some of my family. And that was when I was about 11. So I guess I've guessed I am owning my scribeness as that.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah, it started young too. That's great. I I related to your your story about being nine. I remember writing poetry in grade four. That would have been nine years old as well. And my teacher reading it out to the classmates. And I don't, I don't remember like it was probably like in the creative writing class or something. And I remember her reading a few of them out and saying, You're gonna you should become a poet. And and I'm like, whatever. And I never really, I never really followed up with that. But it's interesting now at this stage in my life, I have more of a of an interest in writing, like less in a professional context, which I did for 25 years in a corporate-y kind of role. And now that more expository, kind of getting in there, talking about, like you're saying, the stuff of you know, the soul and all of that.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Beautiful, beautiful stuff.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah, love it, love it. And I also have a lot of poems I've written that have never been shown. And you know, but I mean the whole folderful, I mean, I wrote a lot of the 1870s. And so I mean, at some point when I have some time joke, I I may be able to re- re reclaim them. Right. Yeah, and yeah, so yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yeah, no, that's beautiful. And and so much of that artistic stuff ends up, you know, in a drawer somewhere. And and we the world needs more of it, right? We we need we don't need more strategies on blah blah blah. We need in my view, we need more creative kind of liberation, shall we say? Liberation, yes. Find the wisdom trust on school, school.com slash the dash. Wisdom dash trust slash about. Website is wisdomtrust50.com. Find us on Slubstack, the wisdomtrust.substack.com. And if you're not watching this on YouTube, youtube.com slash the wisdom trust 50. See you on those five minutes. So so you you've shifted, you know, your focus a little bit and now doing a little bit more reflective kind of stuff, if that's a good way of framing it, writing about things that are are outside of the music context, although I'm sure they those threads are still woven through. So how are you kind of leveling up, David, at this this stage of life? Like what is it that that is, you know, the writing clearly is something that that vibes you, but how else do you show up for yourself, for others at this beautiful stage?

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Well, I would say one of the challenges I have right now is because of my Kenya, because I've been doing this for so long. I'll give you a direct example. I went to an event last night, a musical about a great thing called Shaka Car. And and and and it you know, I had something to do with it because I wrote the notes in the program that people buy about her. And a couple of times last night, people were introducing me to other people, and they kept using the phrase legend. Now that's a I mean, honestly, how I show up for people apparently for many people is that way, and uh it's difficult for me to own it as such because I feel like what I've been doing is this is what I came to do, and it wasn't to be a legend or to be anything other than just you know fulfilling what I came for. I'm challenged with that, but I don't really want to say about it. I've spent a lot of today in in the wake of those concepts like, oh, okay. And I go f I go into a funny person. Well, okay, if I'm a legend, why is my bank account not affect, not rela, not not reflect, not not reflect that. Now that's my stuff I've got to deal with, don't right, right. But but it's so here let me let me say this. It's a good question, Lauren, because I think what what I think I'm experiencing now is being appreciated, being acknowledged and not just in in music, but you know, uh uh by others, you know, different fields and it it feels it's a little strange because I didn't plan it, yeah, I didn't expect it. Yeah. And I'm so I honestly I'm sometimes uncomfortable with it.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah. Can I can I share something with you? Of course, yes, please. So my what what's channeling through me, what I'm flowing right here with is we don't always have the words to appreciate others. So sometimes we're a little bit at a loss. And so with a lot of this stuff, especially in the English language, the words are very limiting or confining. And I would encourage you, regardless of the word, if it's legend or whatever, just to accept that as a loving gesture of someone honoring you in the fullest way. And what a gift that is. Because of the beautiful work that you've done that clearly has spoken words, volumes to legions of followers and music followers, and you've helped them to understand maybe a little bit more what they're experiencing. That even if the word legend doesn't resonate, or the concept of being held up to a certain level doesn't resonate, I'm gonna encourage you to own it. Because in in owning that, in finding peace in your heart with that, that other part that you've referenced a couple of times already, your bank account doesn't reflect that. That will shift. Yeah. Owning the accolades that that others are capable of. So that that's what that's what I intuitively wanted to share.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

And I don't know, I mean, it's two things I want to say about this. I don't know, I don't know what my real discomfort with it is, other than I wasn't raised, and it was considered how I was raised, and many people in Britain are raised in not so it's always it's almost in the culture to not big up yourself. Of course. That's a very quote North American thing. Yeah. And and and I I had to, yeah, and many of the people I uh I was around in America, that's how they operated. It's okay, but that was their modus operandi, it's not mine. Basically, it's not mine. So to to be able to shift that, it takes something because I have to basically let go of all I was trained to do. So trained, but but you could say not trained, but like that was how and you know around and if you and if you hear, even if you hear other British uh celebrities so so lifetimes, they will be kind of self, not self-deferential, but they'll be kind of like, okay, they don't it's not like yes, of course, yes, oh thank you. I have so many, it's not like that. Yeah, so it is also cultural. I want to say that. Of course, 100%. And and the other thing I want to say to you about what you just said, which really did resonate with me, is I'm reminded of one moment that we'll never other always remember. And it was a very special, precious moment in which I got to acknowledge, but not acknowledge in writing, but face to face and eye to eye, someone who had already been, who's already no longer with us, but was had had long been used to accolades. And I'll tell you who it was, and I'll tell you what happened. Very brief story. So, you know, because I had a great long-standing, you could say almost spiritual relationship with Aretha Franklin that went back to 1965, but 66 in terms of being in communication. Yeah, I was a young, I was a teenager in London. She had never been to England, blah, blah, blah. I won't go to the backstory, but I've written more about Aretha than probably anyone else. Thousands and thousands and thousands of words. I spent time in her company, and I would say she she would consider us to have been friends. I'd use the word friends in a different context, but I accepted the kind of relationship we have. And I remember sitting opposite her. She had a party in in Los Angeles, and a lot of people around. And for one moment, she was sitting by herself. And I used that opportunity to walk up to her and said, Yeah, yeah. And I said, because I could say this in front of her, not to other people, I said, Aretha, I really want to thank you for all you've contributed to me as a not just your music, but you've by virtue of giving me the opportunity to interview you and and do so many things, you've given me a lot of my first in life. And she listened. And I said, So I really want to let you know how much that means to me. And then she said, well, she started to tear up, she didn't boohoo, but she was clearly moved by the expression. And she said, Well, David, thank you. And I want to let you know how much I appreciate all you've done for me in your writing about me. And it was a moment, and then you know, other people came, but in that one moment I recognized how important acknowledgement is, it's so important. And if you get the opportunity to do that with someone in that way, like literally eye to eye, you know, just beautiful in those few moments. I mean, it ja I never it still resonates, I can still see the scene. So I say that to say that it is also about me accepting, I get it, because you're accepting that kind of acknowledgement. Also, I'm gonna give you some homework. Oh dear! Oh no, you're the worst student in the world. Oh my god, no, no, hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

Call it love work, call it self-love work. Oh, all right. Take that moment with Aretha and create from it, in her words, as best you can remember them, an aphorism, you know, some kind of an a statement, and say that to yourself at least three times every morning before you start your day. You I would suggest that that reprogramming some of that cultural conditioning around money and abundance, even at this stage in life, it's worthy of doing because you are worthy of every accolade and and every pound that flows into your bank account. I just want to say that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

So one thing before we get further on from the homework. So an aphorism is is it a I mean, I'm familiar with the firm word. I haven't really used it much.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Just a short, pithy statement that that that that encaptures that moment. And like you just you echoed back after you shared it, you know, share those thoughts with others around your appreciation for them. But I want you to do this for yourself. Like you're sharing that reflection back to yourself. Okay. Yeah. Homework accepted homework. And you can you can report back. And then and then part of what I want to do here is is to report back on on some of the tasks that others might be doing in previous episodes. So we'll do a little David update at some point.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

All right.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

So you are a fairly joy-filled man. I mean, you and I have had a few encounters where, you know, we were both you know, followers of Lee Harris, who's a beautiful man in and of himself. And that's where you and I connected. And every time I see you, there's a beautiful smile, there's wonderful energy. So tell us about how at this stage in life you you have fun. Like what is it that that that you know keeps that, you know, we went from this up-leveling a few moments ago, but brings you in up in such a way that you know you you get to shine. How do you how do you have fun?

SPEAKER_00 36:47

It's not gonna sound how you think it's gonna so we didn't have any preconception of what I was gonna say anyway, I guess. It doesn't sound like fun, maybe to some people. That's okay. Okay, how I have fun is by allowing myself the opportunity to sleep longer, to watch Netflix, to to to almost embrace, well, not to almost to embrace my senior nest without any feelings of guilt. Yes. That's how I have fun. It does, I don't know how it sounds to you, but that's that that's one way I have fun. The other way I have fun, if there is a very specific thing I do when the weather cooperates, is which doesn't always do in England, as you probably can imagine, is one of the things I have fun with doing is go, because I don't live too far from the river Thames. So I it in on a sunny late afternoon, early evening, especially in the spring and summer, I will go and sit there at the river, you know, benches and blah, blah, blah. And I sing. I sing out loud. I mean, I'm listening to I have my head, my earpiece in, and I'm listening to a piece of music, and I just sing out loud because I love singing in the air. I mean, I love singing outside in in nature, and I don't do it for anyone to say anything. And yes, and sometimes there have been a couple of amazing moments when people have, I didn't know they were doing it because I was focused on singing. And there are particular instances or a couple of times when people were stopped and were listening. And in one particular case, I remember a woman with her daughter came. She was I didn't even see them, I looked at the corner of my eye. And when I finished the song, she said, Thank you so much. She said, That really that was so wonderful for my daughter. She really you have a great voice. You uh and it it it I guess it's in the realm of having well, just to be able to do that. So that's why I said fun.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Yeah, what a gift, what a gift that is. Like you know, you you sitting there singing, you don't know how many people are picking up on that and just the ripple. Yeah, that because music is is healing, you know, music and sound, and I mean that's why sound and mantra and all of that stuff is part of so many spiritual traditions, hymns, you know, like because there's such a healing element. So, what a gift you gave that woman and probably countless other people who have been listening and you didn't even know. And on the Netflix front, from one hyperachiever to another, you didn't get to where you got without being a bit of a hyper achiever, right? Yes, have the grace of Netflix, have the grace of the balance, it's the yin and the yang, the the doing and the and the surrendering, having a balance, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah, can I just say one thing? And when when you were saying that about the about about singing, I have to confess that I do really love singing, and I listened to some of my recording reasons. I'm like, well, they're good, and I realize that I haven't pursued it as a career, and I know why I didn't do that. And what I can see now is there's nothing to stop me from from now at this point in life sharing more of my music and making new music. I mean, I don't know, I I can't tell you why. I there's a reason, well, there's probably some reason I stopped. But yeah, I mean, and I really I'm reminded of the most important thing about anything to do with music or creativity. If you touch just one person, if someone is moved by one thing, then it's like you've done your job, or whatever that job might be. So I'm encouraged by sharing with you about singing at the sea, that I should do, I should, you know, do more music.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Yeah, you can see I you know, I built a lot of other things too concentrating a podcast that needs a little intro, outro, maybe, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Well, well, yeah, and the other thing to say, just very briefly, is one of things I acknowledge is I have a very distinct speaking voice, and I don't use it enough in ways, you know what I mean. I I know I don't sound like anyone else, and I also know that probably a lot of my, I'll say this like this, a lot of my fortune, so to speak, is really using what I already have as a natural, it's a natural gift, yes, naturally there, and to use it to make a difference, and uh yeah, and and so I've done a series of aff just so you know, I've done a series of affirmations that I've been writing over the last five years. There's books of them, books of them, and recently I started to turn them into audio, like speaking them, and that's one of the next things I want to really focus on is sharing this the the audio part along with the written part.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Beautiful. Yeah, we'll be referring people to where they can find some of your stuff in a moment. But before we move there, I wanted to just sort of do a little reflection here about the whole thing, the whole journey you've been on. You know, one of the beautiful things about this stage in life is the wisdom, right? And so we we uh accumulate so much experience, knowledge. Some of it's not been easy, some of it's been incredibly beautiful. What would you like to share with those listening? Uh, some words of you know, insight, something that may help them in terms of their own journeys, and particularly around this idea of freedom, because we can be our own worst enemies in terms of caging ourselves into limiting beliefs and and just like this is who I am. And it's like, no, no, you can be so much bigger, should you choose. So, any any words of wisdom you would like to impart?

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Yeah, well, yes. I I think yes, uh it's to listen to your intuition about what it is you want to be uh doing. What do you want to be engaged? What do you love doing, whether it's for work or just whatever you're doing for anything? Work, pleasure. It's not about you have to find your purpose in life. That's good if you find it, but everyone isn't gonna do that. I get that part. So it's really about listening to the to the inner voice and not listening to the other part of the voice. This is well, why should you do your don't do that? Why are you doing that? That's silly. People are gonna laugh at you, or that don't. Listen to that.

unknown 44:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Those are the savage words. Because that's always going to be there. There's always, even like now, I mean, there's times I, you know, I oh well, you know, that kind of conversation in my head, which I know is really, you know, to be honest, it's just a computer, a computer program going on and on, saying the same old stuff that could could thwart anything I really want to do. So I or want what I feel to do. So I think the thing I would say is even though it's we are not trained as human beings necessarily to listen to our intuition, it's always always right. I could tell you the silliest example, but I don't know if we have time for that. But just there's a five, it's a two-minute. Two minutes. Do you love for it? Okay, good. So on Saturday, it's past Saturday, uh, I went to visit some friends of mine in Oxford, and it's not a place I go very often. My friend Shirley and her husband David. Oh, go tell it, go all the way. So I got to the train, blah, blah, blah. And I get to, this is so silly. I get to, you do you guys have something called Predomange? Oh, it's a it's a it's a a chain of food things, like fast food kind of things. It's a little upmarkety thing rather than you know, doesn't fry isn't fries and and stuff, it's it's like a little snacky anyway. So I'm I get to the station, got my ticket, and I think, oh, okay, I've got some time. Let me just go buy something in the Prada Mange. And then I got in the Prada Mange and say, Well, why are you doing that? You've already got snacks with you. That's what I've said to myself. Oh, then I left the Prada Mange, and then two minutes later I went back. I said, Well, why why not? You could treat yourself. You know that voice that says, Treat yourself. Yeah, why you know do something for yourself? A little bar, a little bar, like a little, you know, food bar thing. I go in, I get the into the food bar, I come out, and then I start walking away. And I'm I go to the platform, where's my ticket? Oh my god. The bottom line is I had left the ticket, the outbound part of the ticket in the Praie de Manger, and when I went back, all they had was a receipt. So, what's the lesson? What is it? I had to buy another ticket. So, what is the lesson? The lesson is listen if I listen to the voice saying, You really don't need to buy anything in the pé de manger. And I heard the other voice say, Oh, can't hurt, you know, and guess what? It hurt because I bought another ticket. So I'm saying it's simple as that. And if I I just say to people, just listen to trust that, whatever that voice is. It I don't even know how to describe it other than intuition. I mean, Lauren, do you have a word for that voice? I don't know what what we call it.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Yeah, other voice. A lot of our the stuff we listen to is that negative chatter, right? And it's very reductive and very fear-based. And I think too, like a good example is when you're filling out the self-reflection questions. Oftentimes the first thing that comes up is always going to be the right thing. But then we'll be like, oh no, it's actually blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden matter gets in the way. So what I always encourage, and this is a way that you can flex that muscle and and and tap into intuitive stuff, is when you're doing a questionnaire, first thing that comes up, first thing that comes up, right? Because the rest is really the condition programming that's that's trying to steal the show. And it will, you know, and this this even comes back to the thing you were talking about, you know, purpose. And if we can tap into some of the dreaming we did as kids, you know, like go back, especially at this stage in life when we're, you know, we don't need to be as concerned about some of the, you know, out there kind of the career and all of these other things. We can actually allow ourselves to dream a little bit differently and bigger. Remember what you did as kids and use that as an opportunity to plug into, oh, I really want to do that, I really want to try that, you know, and and explore, be curious because absence that, that's when we start to kind of like you know, yeah. And in that you you'll find purpose. And it might not be the big purpose, but purpose in terms of something that you can work on for now.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

And it can be, you I know we're talking about what I what I do and what you do and what people do, but really you know, if you think about people can find their purpose as a farmer, they can find their purpose as a as a you know, as a father. I mean, it isn't always about the grand you know what we think a purpose is.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Yeah, and or it doesn't have to be related to career per se. It's how you're showing up in life, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and there are people who feel exceptionally fulfilled because they they get up in the morning doing, even though it may not fit my idea, what they love, what people love, they love it, they do it in the in the in it's about I think it's really that we have really done a lot of damage in a sense, yeah, by saying that purpose has to be has to be some big thing.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Totally. And and I've probably been guilty of that at some point too. But I think what you just said is key to this that you want to spring out of bed in the morning, like something that makes you want to get up and and and be in that day, not like face the day.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

And and I do also say that I know a lot of people do feel burdened by choices they've made. Yeah, they do, and it's yeah, and I don't have an answer for that, but but yeah, they do, they feel trapped.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

And and and uh yeah, there's I don't think there's an answer, but we can the thing is the past is in the past, so all we can control is what's next. And control's probably too harsh of a word, but we can set you know a path that's different rather than commiserating about the past, right? That's true. Yeah, so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that wisdom. So tell us, David, I'm gonna share your website information here. David's website is David Nathan, N-A-T-H-A-N.com. Yes, thank you. Tell us what what folks are gonna find there.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Well, they're not gonna find naughty there. They're going to find, they're gonna find some information about my my history. They are going to find some of the some of the pieces that are part of my that I've put together over years, uh little vignettes of my journey in the world of soul music. They're also gonna find some recent things I've been doing, which are like interviews I've been doing with a colleague of mine in America, uh Patrick, he's been doing some great interview with me. So they it's called under umbollicals soul talking. So they get links to the, they can actually see those videos on there. Uh, what else do they find? They find uh links to my books, particularly the soulful divas, which as a as a as a openly gay man, I own the whole uh world of being a soulful divas. I actually came up with the term I didn't know that no one used before, and it was the title of a book which I've done and which it seems to still have some resonance. So the soulful divas, then they find a link to the three through seven lives. What else they find at the website? I think those are the main things. I'm still working on other elements of it, but that's those are the primary things they'll find.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

And is there a link on there to your substack? Because I know the writing is a good thing. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yes, it's one of the top menu items which is Substack.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

You want to you know indulge yourself in some of David's writing, it's beautiful. I I recommend it. Um stack is a great way. And there's the wisdom trust substack as well, by the way. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, to pop that up on the screen. Why not?

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Yes, please do.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

So the the Substack address there for those of you, and and feel free to comment and and share. That's always helpful. And lastly, as well, for for the wisdom trust, we have our YouTube channel. So excerpts from some of some of these interviews and other other wonderful things will be there as well. Yeah. So I I really want to thank you for sharing this time with me and and our listeners and viewers. I'm sure you've touched the hearts of many, many people. You are a beautiful man, and I want you to own your legendary status or in whatever way is appropriate for you. Uh, because wow, it you're worthy of it in so many ways. And it's been really beautiful getting to know you and and in this little this little window of your journey that I've been privy to, and I can't wait to see what what's next.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

I do have one other thing to say because one thing I want to, because I always have a lot to say, but I won't make this concise. So, one of the things that's been important to me sharing my life story so much, so so to speak, particularly through Substack, is there are I I don't want yes, legend is lovely, and that's all lovely. I'm not gonna dismiss it. I have not led the life of an of a monk. I paused purposely, and when I start to share more about my life journey, and particularly in living in Los Angeles, there are some not scandalous, but there's some elements of my life that will have people go, What? Yeah, and that's just wait. I can't wait! Of course, it has to do with me being a gay man, not have to be, but it's about being a gay man, and you know, it's not it's not been like and now I look back, I think, what and I don't go what like that, but that's interesting, and you know, so I always want to let people know that it's a whole person, it's not like oh, he was a writer and didn't make anything else. Believe me, believe me. And I've done some other things that I've kind of interesting. Like I sang in a choir in Los Angeles, a primarily gay choir, uh of primarily uh African Americans, and I was an honorary Caucasian. And I remember you know being in the choir and going out of the room and swishing my robe and you know, in in the true style of a diva.

SPEAKER_02 55:02

Nice. Well, we look forward to hearing more of those as as you prolifically share them with us. Again, thank you so much, David. Uh, it's been a real treat.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

Well, thank you, Lauren. I've I really deeply appreciate the opportunity to speak and to to really and thank you for what you're doing. Um it's really, really important. And I'm thankful that we connected. And you know, it's about yes, it's time to remember well, it's time for all of us to shine. Yeah. Yeah, especially in these dark times.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

All right. Thank you. All right, sound good. Thank you to our guests today, and thank you for listening. If what you heard landed with you, if you felt seen, heard, inspired to make a shift, want to hear about it. Get back to me on one of our platforms or where you're listening to or seeing this. And if you know another man over 50 who you think would benefit from hearing this, share it with them, please. This community grows when we show up for each other. You can find more essays on these topics, reflections, and such at our Substack account. Watch for other content on our YouTube channel. Stay connected to us through our school. This is where we engage in building our community. Remember, this like a half of life is the beginning.