Washed Podcast with Albee Layer and Jack Freestone

Mindset, mentors and surfing - LUKE SWANSON - Washed Podcast - Ep 5

• Jack Freestone • Episode 5

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0:00 | 59:10

In this episode, Luke shares stories from his journey, his competitive career, future goals, and gives us an inside look into the mindset and dedication of one of surfing’s most exciting young talents. Enjoy x

SPEAKER_00

Or I'm definitely my generation 100% the worst at responding to text. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

I'm usually pretty bad. I've just got I'm like forced to be on top of things now. Now I'm a father.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well Luke Swanson, ladies and gentlemen.

SPEAKER_03

Clapping me and we're going. Dude. So whereabouts are you, Luke? Are you in you're in California, huh?

SPEAKER_00

Yep. I'm in Santa Barbara right now. I'm at my brother's house. Um, I'm actually uh two blocks away from the Channel Islands factory, and uh later today I'm picking up like a bunch of surfboards, so kind of on the move right now.

SPEAKER_03

Safe, what are you doing over there? Just picking up surfboards, doing the rounds?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was actually I was just involved at a like a Christian youth conference in San Diego, which was kind of a random series of events, but I ended up speaking there and then driving up yesterday. And uh yeah, now I'm picking up boards and then I leave town tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03

So sick, man. That's good to hear. Sorry, my kids are interrupting in the background.

SPEAKER_00

You're good.

SPEAKER_03

Just screams and yeah, moans of uh crazy children. Um, that's cool, dude. So are you doing is there any contests or anything over there while you're there?

SPEAKER_00

Nope, no, this is just super quick stopover. Kind of just had the time to be here, and I know that there's been like gosh, so much South Swell. I kind of feel a lot of FOMO with all the different places that are firing right now. Mexico, California, and also like South Pacific, too. But um, yeah, I'm kinda in between events. I just finished a regional event at home on the South Shore, and then I go for the first event of the Challenger series in about um a little over a week to South Africa.

SPEAKER_03

Sick man, how you feeling about all that?

SPEAKER_00

I'm feeling good. Um I'm feeling uh like well, I'm super stoked because I got the wild card. So I think anytime you get something that you weren't expecting, it always feels even better and you're even more grateful. And so I think um I think there's a level to which getting a wild card and having the opportunity to try again just makes me really grateful rather than having more pressure on myself. That makes sense. Um the first one is in South Africa.

SPEAKER_01

So what so why did you get the wild card? Do you think? Is it was it an injury thing or was it like uh how good you did last year?

SPEAKER_00

I was I was kind of it was super out of left field for me. I didn't I didn't apply for it or really hunt it down because I I just didn't know how that worked and I wasn't familiar with the process, which in hindsight I probably should have. Um, but it just came down to a matter of the regional kind of directors and the WSL um challenger series directors looking at the rankings, looking at my results on the challenger, and kind of going like, we want to prioritize the people that are right there and have been there on the challenger series and are trying to get back there, but haven't been able to showcase their full abilities, which obviously there's injury wild cards that are given out, but this was more of just a general wild card because they were like, Hey, we know you can do better, which for me is also another huge vote of confidence to hear people say, like, hey, we want you, we know you're good enough to do well here. So we literally want to make it happen for you.

SPEAKER_03

That's really cool, man. Was with last year, or like how many years you've been on the challenger? Was last year you're like your your proper fullback?

SPEAKER_00

First year, yeah. Last year's my first year.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, gotcha. Um, how old are you right now? I'm 22. 22.

SPEAKER_00

Which feels so old.

SPEAKER_01

That's not even old, dude. That's cool. Go fuck yourself.

SPEAKER_00

I say that because you guys, like, I mean, I don't know. I I maybe that's a question to ask you guys, but and you'd have a better answer than me. But it seems like there's a uh there was this progression for your guys' generation where at 17 and 18 you guys were better than the people that were at the top, if that makes sense. And nowadays, like nobody's peaking until like their I don't know, mid to late or yeah, mid to late 20s, even. And so for me, I'm looking at old people out of spec, and I'm like, oh, they were there when I was 18 or when they when they're 18. So I'm like late, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, see, I I feel the opposite. So I I don't know how Jack feels, but I've always had this theory with my generation or our generation in particular. We had this weird thing. This is more on the sponsorship side of things, not as much as like the actual performance. But I felt like everyone in my generation, or me and Jack's, because Jack, we're the are we the exact same age? No, you're way older than me, dude.

SPEAKER_03

Like absolutely up. You're so much older than me, it's mind-blowing. How old are you? I'm 34.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, okay. One whole year. Ooh. Um, but anyway, it seemed like when we were growing up, we watched um the generation before us, or like even like the when we were Groms, we were watching like the Kalani Robbs, the Bruce Irons, like that kind of generation. And Kelly is just evergreen through all of those. But it seemed like the trajectory for being a pro surfer when we were growing up was like you built, you built, you built, like, and then like mid-20s, you like got the big sponsor, you got the big deal. And that was like when you like, you know, you did the NSA, you did the juniors, or the you know, the um, what was it in Oz? And then like mid-20s, like you started to build in like like mid to late 20s, that's when you got your big deal, like your big contracts and stuff. But then John John fucked everything up, excuse my language. Um, and every company, instead of trying to watch people get built up and then like you know, pick from the people who made it, they went backwards and tried to pick the next John John. And like I've always felt like our generation, and like I talked about this with with Tori Meister and stuff, we were in this weird little gap where it was like, oh, we were building to like almost hitting our big contract, and then all the companies, instead of looking here, started looking at 13 to 14 year olds here. Yeah, it's like a real do you think there's any truth to that, Jack?

SPEAKER_03

I I a hundred percent agree. And yeah, you're you're right. I think it was kind of right around when like John John started blooming, they were like, Oh, okay, we need to start like planning, like looking at the the youthful generation rather than like the mid to late teens and like early twenties. Yeah, you're totally right. I think so.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's like instead of trying to pick one of the best surfers, they're like, Oh, let's just go make one.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Let's go create one from so I was I'm curious, like in your generation now, how what do you think is like the trajectory? Are they more on the kind of like still looking for the John John kind of thing where they're trying to like companies in general and are trying to build from scratch, or are they they're waiting to see what you know pans out through the comp challenger series or through video content, whatever else?

SPEAKER_00

I feel like you guys you guys would probably agree with this, but I feel like nowadays it's in terms of sponsorship, it's not really necessarily waiting for a certain point for them to prove themselves or or even investing in them and cultivating it. It's almost like they they want personas, like they want personalities. And I think that that's probably just with the advent of social media and individualized marketability, people with their own YouTube channels and stuff. And I think that there's a level to which people companies want to create a personality out of an athlete, you know? And I think that that's happening at a young age where people like I'm I in my head, I think of someone like Huey Vaughn, who is just like this, you know, the the perfect surfing personality for a kid. And I've seen a lot of ways that it seems like companies have been able to follow his um personality and his, I don't know, his his character and then back it. And it actually it really helps with the social media and the individual kind of marketing that's going on. And so I don't know, in my generation growing up, I can remember some kids that felt like, oh, you're getting vetted out. Like you're you're not even like you haven't really proven yourself, but you're getting like all the money from you know everybody that's our age. Um, you're taking it all, you know? And then other kids, it was like, oh, you've proven yourself, now you're getting money. But now I feel like there's it's all dependent on just views and followers, and then there's the occasional kid that's just so much better. He's like an outlier that companies just have to pay. I don't know. Do you guys agree? Like this, I feel like there's a shift now from from talent and like just raw ability to like how can you show that and make it look fun to other people?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think marketability's definitely come into it. I think um kind of being multifaceted in like different areas, like uh, like I feel like there was a shift. I don't know if Albi, uh Albi, you probably saw this, but like just being a surfer wasn't enough. If that makes it like you have to be really good and winning everything, and like just Macy like making a ton of content, or you kind of got to be multifaceted, like yeah, diving you you're diving into YouTube and marketing and all this, like media and stuff like that. Um, I feel like there was a big shift in that aspect. But one thing I was like, because I feel like every time I've spoken to you, you seem for being in your early 20s, dude, you seem super insightful. Every time I've spoken to you, you're like, you you seem very wise for your age. Thank you. And I'm like, yeah, how like so tell me how that that came about because you seem incredibly switched on. Like I feel like you're one of the you're one of the younger kids who always loves to learn.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I do. And that's why I'm super grateful to be on a podcast with you guys because I feel like I gotta I I watch all, you know, the podcast that I was just watching your guys one that you put up today with Shane, and I think there's so much to learn. And so anytime I see people that are ahead of me that like to share what they've learned, I just I gravitate towards it, especially if they want to be helpful towards me and and give me advice. And I just I see so much um just value in that. But I think probably at a more fundamental level, I my parents didn't come from Hawaii or like the surf culture that a lot of kids that kind of don't really care about learning and anything aside from surfing grew up in. Like we came from my parents came from the Northwest, and my dad is a doctor, and my mom like writes books and stuff. And so athletics just wasn't like they didn't that that was a priority growing up for me, but it was much more of a priority for them that me and my brothers would be educated and know how to carry a conversation, know how to ask questions, know how to develop like I don't know, somewhat of a work ethic. And um, I do think that I do think on the North Shore I feel a little bit like alienated because even though I've lived there my whole life, um I I had a different lifestyle growing up. Like I was homeschooled and I came from like, you know, the Christian church community. And so I wasn't like going and partying with kids and I wasn't like just like spending time hanging out when you know when there was no waves. Like I just I kind of had a different um path growing up. And so I feel like the way probably I ask questions and communicate. Sometimes I think it's a bad thing because it like people are like, dude, just like stop being, you know, asking questions and go surf and you know, do the thing. And I I probably spend more time just thinking about things, which you know, maybe in some ways is helpful. Maybe that's just the way I'm wired. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. I love that for you. Uh well, it's like and before we move on, we just have to acknowledge the wildlife around Jack, especially for anyone who's just listening to audio.

SPEAKER_03

Go up, guys. I'm Jack. I'm in Australia, I can't I can't sit inside because I've got uh I think it's a magpie. I think it's a magpie, but I've got I've got hyenas inside the house, my two kids. I've got two wild dingos living in there, and then I've got freaking, I can't, I can't I literally can't sit anywhere where there's no noise. No, I'm sorry, Logan. I'm sorry, Logan. I'm sorry you guys.

SPEAKER_01

Umge it because otherwise people be like, what the hell is that?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, what what yeah, where where what is that? Yeah, everywhere there's something there's a child screaming or a freaking bird chirping.

SPEAKER_01

But anyway, I I think it's I can see that on the North Shore. I I I relate to it in some way because like my parents both surfed, you know, and so they taught me a little bit about surfing, but like when you grow up on the north shore, like they taught me about surfing, they were windsurfers and stuff. So like I had that base knowledge, which is more than tons of people. But when you grew up on the North Shore, like most of the people like making a name for themselves, and especially in your age bracket, are like from a fan like surfing royalty family, you know? And so they don't grow up with any sense of like it can be a double-edged sword because you get a ton of opportunities, you get you earn your play, you get a place in the lineup before you earn it. Um, there's all these things that are like make a career easier, but I see a lot of people that grow up in like a especially like a legit surfing family, like one of the royalties or whatever, they grow up without a sense of curiosity and they don't seek out other people's knowledge as much because they kind of are like embedded with like, oh, I already know. Like my dad was so-and-so, or my mom was so and so, and I'm part of this family, you know. Like, I already know. And so I think that's actually a huge advantage for you in many ways. Like, yeah, it's it's it's definitely way harder when you're not a part of the surfing royalty growing up on the North Shore. That's why I don't fucking go there, honestly.

SPEAKER_00

Um but yeah, but I do think you have I want to come, I want to come visit because you have my gosh, I would love, I would love for you to come surf.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe you'll get Matt to come out of retirement. Um but no, I think it's really cool that you have that you're um like actively pursuing you know knowledge from other people in surfing because like you weren't just gifted as much knowledge as you wanted, you know, in the family. Which is and also I'm sure like your parents describing your parents, they're they seem like they would um be very curious people to get to what they have in their careers and stuff. So that's that's I think that's a really good trait to have.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think it's interesting because like at this point in my life, um uh you guys talked about it with Shane, right? You have to find a way to leverage more than just your abilities if you want to do well in surfing and have a sustainable career. And um for me lately, it's been a lot of talking to people and trying to figure out how I can leverage like my curiosity or like whatever it is, the fact that I want to learn and like tie that into what I'm doing as a surfer. And so I'm I've been I just wanna I wanna know how I can maximize my my space as a surfer and especially because I don't have like the we're talking about royalty, but there's also the people that kind of get adopted into the circles of whether it's the filmer or the editor or the like the person of the company that kind of like they create like a an environment of like, I don't know, sometimes it can it can feel I don't I'm not trying to sound jaded or like anything like that, but it's like hey, how do I do this on my own to make my make it my own and make it something that goes outside of just my abilities? And using that on social media, trying to figure out what that looks like is like such a challenge. It's you become like an entrepreneur, like you go from being an athlete to like, oh, now I have to be like a a businessman and like figure out how to make money or make myself valuable with more than just my abilities. And I think you need curiosity to do that. I think you need to be able to think more about just surfing or more than just surfing. Um, but you guys have done that well. You guys have both, I feel like, done a pretty good job of thinking outside of the box. And um, I can take a lot of notes from you guys and just what you've done. Take more notes from Jack. Jack's Jack's summer.

SPEAKER_03

I don't I don't know about that, man. But thank you. That's very, that's very kind of you to say. Yeah, I've every time I've heard your name come into the mix, I always think of like uh you're not only are you insanely talented, but I think you're incredibly driven. So I think for you and like surfing on the championship tier, it's only gonna be a matter of like if, not when. So um, like navigating when not if. I mean, did you say when backwards?

SPEAKER_01

Do I say backwards? I think you said backwards. When, yeah, if not when.

SPEAKER_03

Did I say that? No, it's a matter of when, not if. Sorry, I said that backwards. Yeah, shit. Sorry guys. It's 7 a.m. I haven't even finished my coffee. Um, it's a matter of when. It's a it's a matter of when, not if. Um it's a matter of when, not if, but I think I yeah, man, watching you surf, and it's crazy that you're so young because I feel like I've watched you surf for I don't so long already, if that makes sense. I feel like I've been watching you like dominate the North Shore for so long. So I think, yeah, um how are you feeling going into this year of the Challenger? Like, how are you feeling mentally, like your boards, everything?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's actually a funny, um, a funny way to tie in what we were just talking about too, because with competition, something I'm realizing in life is like I don't, and Jack Bing, you know, having been on tour, you might have more understanding on this, but like I don't know if it's better to be a thinker as a competitor or better to just be like the guy that could care less or not could care less, but like does not have the process and just goes out and surfs and figures it out because I've noticed like I look at myself and what I'm capable of, and I then I look at my results like you know, having a just objectively a really bad year on the challenger last year, I made like a a handful of heats, like two or three heats. And um, and I'm like, I I should be making these heats. And I know it's a matter of time. You you can always like you can always put it that way that, oh, if you keep, you know, trying, it'll end up working. But it's like for me as a thinker, I've worked with sports psychologists and I've read like, you know, I don't know, maybe like 10 different sports psychology books and done the journaling and done all the and it's like I'm such an internal and like thinker with all that I do that sometimes like, is this even helpful for me? Like, am I do I should I just stop thinking? Or like, what is my you know, way to get like out of my head and more just into the the surfing side of things? And this year going into the challenger, I feel like I have a lot of I know myself really well now. Like I know what my my patterns are. I'm really aware of where things go wrong when I'm in contests, and I'm really aware of what thinking habits usually end up leading to me going into an event negative or whatever that is. And so I think just that awareness um as just something to start out with is good. And then um, I think the last the last probably three events that I've been in on the challenger, and then along with the last few that I've done regionally, um, I've had this like this pretty good ability at like not really thinking about the losses so much and more just about my you know, it's cliche, but just the preparation of it and where I'm at mentally and knowing like, okay, I'm okay, like I'm calm, I'm relaxed, I'm present in the moment, I'm not overthinking this decision because it feels existential, and I'm gonna if I make that mistake, then it's gonna lead to losing the conduct, it's gonna lead to not you follow the rabbit hole really easily, you know? And so I think I've been able to stop following that rabbit hole and just be kind of like some people say that you do better competitively when you're older because you're it's not such such a big deal. You're just kind of more comfortable. And I feel like I've started to understand that more in the past maybe six months or so. And uh I think that'll be helpful. And I think it's helpful too, just to add that I'm going to all these events that I did last year, and last year was my first time, and it felt really new, and everyone around me had already been there, and it felt like wow, every time I would see someone, I'd have to explain, yeah, I know I'm a like a late bloomer, like I'm here a couple of years later than everyone. And it felt like that was I don't have that excuse anymore. And I also don't want to have that excuse, if you know what I mean. So I'm I'm excited. All that to say, I'm excited, and I think I'm more aware and I'm more comfortable, and um, I have I have no reason not to be confident. I got great boards, um, I've been surfing well, I've put on a little bit more muscle, a little bit more weight, and uh yeah, I'm just fired up. I'm really motivated.

SPEAKER_03

Sick, dude. Look forward to seeing that, man. It's gonna be a big year, and I'm like, oh man, it it when I s when I speak to you, I feel like I'm speaking to someone like who's my age or Albi way older than me, like Albi's age. Um so yeah, dude, it's sick. That the hardest thing I I felt like on on when I was entered the QS, because I've I went through the same growth pains, I felt like I was just rushed into the QS, and it was really weird. Like I I I like felt like I fluke to my first like world junior world title, and all of a sudden I'm on the QS, and I was like, there was for me, it was like not like the transition for pro juniors, do a few QS, and then like it was just like shoved into it, and it felt I felt the exact same dude. I don't I don't think I made a heat my first year, maybe even two like two years. I don't even think I made a heat. And then it wasn't until like I fully tried to invest in it, something which I see that you're doing, which is really cool. But the hardest thing for me was just mentally. Like I feel like the exact same spot you're in, man. It was I felt like I was enough. I felt like I was ready, I felt like I could compete, but it was just more social. Up mentally for myself, and I think you're in that same predicament. And I think um you seem incredibly switched on. So I think the Challenger series is in for it when Lake Swanson arrives this year.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I yeah, I'm I'm excited about it in that way, and I think I'm just excited for the opportunity. Kind of as I was saying before, just being great. Like I think when you're really grateful, it's hard to be like fearful at the same time. And I think a lot of mistakes that I make are kind of based on like a fear or like a scarcity mentality. And when you're really grateful, there's just not really it's not really possible, you know. You're just stoked and you're like, okay, great. I have a chance to compete here, and the heat hasn't even started yet. I'm not gonna start, you know, unraveling now. Like, let's just see what happens. This could be fun.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's epic, man. I think it's um I wonder if because when you're talking about overthinking and stuff, I think that's why I never did good in contests. I never got there. Is I was just and the few times I did do good, it was times where I was like jet lag or something where my brain was just switched off and it was going, I was just like on autopilot. Like I literally remember just like not remembering the whole contest, like in a way, like where I was just um but I think that type of mind helps with things like errors and stuff. Personally, do you feel that way at all? Like, do you think that kind of overthinking helps with your progression side of the surfing?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I think it helps you get through walls. Like, I think where a lot of people stop um trying or get um unmotivated because they feel like they're hitting a wall. If you're a thinker or you're you know you're not satisfied with knowing enough about it, you'll you'll find a way to get over it, you know? And so I think um, like for an example, wave pools are a great place to show that. Like when you surf a wave pool with someone that's kind of a feelings-based, um, emotions-based like surfer, they'll, you know, not be able to land in air, um, or they'll run into a wall and they just kind of almost give up. And I think for someone that thinks a little bit deeper and you know, isn't really satisfied with, you know, not landing something, it's like, okay, how can I figure this out now? Wave pools are obviously a great place for that. The ocean can be a really annoying place for that, because then you're waiting for your opportunity and it just like you know how like trade winds are and surfing left, you're just like on the north shore of Oahu or Mao. You're just like, now I want the section, or that can be really frustrating for sure. But I do think that when you're given the chances and you're able to think deeply about how am I going to overcome this obstacle, you'll end up getting to the solution quicker than the other people will, for sure.

SPEAKER_01

That's I really like that. I literally have a cheesy um quote on my um one of my tattoos when I was like probably younger than you was for every door exists a key. It says, for every door exists a key. Very like very wise. It's no, it's not. It's a little cheesy and stupid, but I literally got it because I was trying to figure out a trick at the time, and I like thought myself out of the way I was falling. Like, where it's so funny too, because I grew up surfing with Matt, obviously, and he is much more of a feelings-based surfer than I am.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And like it was it was always really weird to me because I I had both every time I was surfing, uh, like because Matt would go out, he wouldn't know what he was doing until he was you know upside down on the air and be like, Oh, I guess I'm gonna tilt my head back now, and all of a sudden he does a double spin or whatever. Where I was like, I would like write out goals before the beginning of the year, like, I'm gonna try this trick, and then I'm gonna try this trick with this grab. And um, so it's like a really funny thing that both can totally work, but what you said about wave pools is so funny because I always go to wave pools with Matt, and the way we go through it, that's where you can see the biggest difference. And he's so naturally gifted that he ends up doing like more tricks than me. And and plus he's just you know 70 pounds lighter in wave pools that matters. Um but he also like he'll come in, he'll he'll run into walls and like I'll give him ideas a lot. He'll he would he would say this too, where I'd be like, like, why don't you try this crap or why don't you try this? And um, but it's so funny because he's just and then he'll figure out things naturally that I'll try to emulate. I'll be like, Oh, yeah, I don't think you even know what you just did, but like I'm gonna dissect what you just did and figure it out.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's how it is with two people I think of in my life. One would be Sheon Crawford, who I spend so much time on the water with him, and he's just like, you know, he like he I just I get frustrated because I'm like, how did you just do that? And he's just like, I don't know. I just like I just sent it, you know, you're really excited. I just sent it. I just like sent it. I don't know. Okay, well, like, you know, like I want to know what you're like, yeah, what do you mean? And he's done like some of these tricks that are just like wild. And we'll go out to Rockies and he just does something for the first time off of feeling, and he'll land it. And um, I think that's super cool. But the other person that just annoys the heck out of me is and you guys would probably relate, is John Florence, because one thing that I've been really trying to do the last couple of years is work on my rail surfing because that's so important on in contests. Like it doesn't matter at Rocky lefts, but if you want to do well in a heat, you gotta know how to do a carve and do a snap. And John is very good at all that stuff, obviously, like the best in the world on rail. And he's he explains things, but sometimes it's like the way we'll end up arguing is he'll explain it a certain way, and then I'm like trying to understand it, but he's like, No, it's just that you know that feeling, and you're like, No, I don't like like I wish that surfing became more of a like a mathematical data-driven sport, so you can just be like, Okay, what do I need to do to get out on rail as much as you are? And he like the other day, I said something like, Yeah, because you're able to like push so hard or something. He's like, push? No, I'm like, I'm not pushing at all. I'm like, it's it's I'm like, I'm like sitting, or I forget what he said, but I was like, No, you're pushing, John. Like, you're definitely pushing. I can see your leg flexing in the video, you're pushing. And he's like, No, it's not, that's not what I'm thinking. When I'm doing it, I'm not thinking about pushing. And I'm like, why can't we just so funny?

SPEAKER_01

I've had this exact conversation with John trying to figure out turns, and he does the same exact thing. He's like, you know that feeling when you're like, no, I don't. Like, you're the best surfer in the world, you're the only person who knows that feeling. That's what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_00

I'm the only one who knows that feeling, actually. I know. I don't know if anyone else knows that feeling.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well, let's let's touch base on that for a little bit because um I feel like it's incredibly incredibly rare, but like John John has been a pretty good mentor to you, yeah, Luke. He's like kind of taken you under his wing a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely, yeah. And talking about contests and all this, I just we had a conversation maybe like five days ago about the challenger, and he was just giving me all sorts of advice, which that, yeah, I don't know, I don't know how I stumbled into that. And um, maybe it has to do with what we were talking before about asking questions. Like, that's what I keep coming back to is um why why old me and my friends grew up idolizing John um on the North Shore. And why am I the one that gets to like or wh why have I been somebody that has gotten to learn from him and hang out with him and surf with him? And I think it's just simply that because a lot of my friends and a lot of people my age are more probably content with the way that they approach surfing, and they're content to see John from a distance, and that hasn't been enough for me. So, like when I was, you know, 15 or 16, I like I was just like, what's stopping me from asking him, you know, if he can run a heat with me or something? Um, and then you know, however that worked, I was able to like surf some heats with him and my coach Ross, and he was able to kind of organize that. And then I was like, like, John, give me your number, like just as a grom. You're like, just give me your number so I can text you to run heats. And I think that he realized like, oh, he's not he's not doing it because he's like he's a grom. Like he actually wants to like learn and get better. And I'm super grateful for that. That he wasn't just like like, oh, I don't have time, like you know, you're just which I I do that to other kids. I'm like, oh, I don't like I gotta surf with this other person or I gotta focus on this thing. But he's really over the past, I don't know, like five or six years made room for me and made time for me. And I think it's because John does love uh going deep on things and um thinking about things, and he's way more um methodical and intelligent than probably most people like I don't know, paint him to be because he's just so out of the picture a lot of the time that nobody really knows whether he's like super, you know, methodical with how he surfs contests or if he just goes out and surfs. And so yeah, I got to I got to be a part of that and like learn um so much from him and develop this really cool relationship where a lot of it has been realizing, oh, he's just another person. Like he's another guy that thinks and overthinks and he gets nervous about things and struggles through, you know, w whatever is going on, losses, wins. Like he doesn't like he's humble and he like doesn't see himself as like you know, this this idol that everyone else sees him as. So that's been um such a gift for me. Like, and again, I don't think it's something that I deserved. I think it just was like I was the only kid really that was like, I want to know what you know, so can you just tell me? Can you help me out? And he was his yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think it was a couple things because that that was the first time I heard about you as a surfer was from John when he came here for a trip, like I think during COVID. So you're probably yeah, it's probably those early days. And he was talking about running heats with you and stuff. Because I was talking about I finally had like a couple younger kids, like Kaipala, who's just on his modeling thing now, but he was funny.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

He was really fun to surf with for a while and like really started pushing me. And John's like, Oh yeah, I've been surfing with uh this kid Luke, and it's like it's really fun to have that like new energy. So I think a big part of it was just like you got you being curious and like that, asking him, and it was also the timing, like he needed some fresh energy into like his surfing, you know, because that was yeah, I'm not sure exactly when that landed up. Yeah, exactly. And he kind of, yeah. Sometimes you need fresh energy in surfing because and just mixing it up with who you surf with, that's always like helps. It is it's super interesting. Um, John, as well. I would say he's both the like the matte freak of nature, natural talented, and he thinks about everything. That's probably why he's better than everyone in the world. I agree. But that's so cool, man.

SPEAKER_03

That's um I mean, yeah, but I do never got let into his circle, so you know, I'll just sit on the outside.

SPEAKER_01

Just you guys just hey, you got to be front row to when he really went up everyone's rail surfing.

SPEAKER_03

When he did the biggest turn in history in my face, and I was the only person on planet, and it like kind of shattered my whole life. Yeah. I know that was fun. Super fun. Jack was in the Margaret Seat where John really turned it up.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, explain that. What was that like?

SPEAKER_03

Being front row to the biggest turn ever done in con competition history. Um it was instantly like just so deflating. That's how it felt. Um because he'd been like I yeah, I think everyone saw that event and was just like in Marvel of like his his rail surfing kind of saved that event, if that makes sense. That's kind of what it felt like to me anyway. Um every every heat, he was just like getting a little bit better and a little bit better. Like the the his heat total was like nine, he averaged like 19 and a half points. So he's almost unbeatable. And I've kind of felt that going into that heat. I'm like in the center, and I started out and I didn't really have a good wave, and I was just paddling back out, and he he started with a seven, which was really rare because he was like starting with a nine every heat, and I'm like, oh, like maybe I've got him. And then I took off on what was I thought was a good one, it was a bad one, and like I kicked out, and as I was paddling back out, the turn happened, and I just was just like, oh, okay, well, that's done. That was it, yeah, there it is, and yeah, then like literally paddling over the wave, I got I got back out the back. It's like 9.8 for my okay, this is where it starts. The wheels fell off for me, and he went on to do what he did. But um honestly, it was probably one of the coolest moments in life because every time I look back on it, I was like, that was the craziest, one of the craziest, probably the craziest turn, and I was the only person on the planet that was sitting right there, even though I was in a heat with him trying to beat him. I was just like, Oh, that's pretty, it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, that says a lot about your your character though, too. Because probably so many people would just be like, they wouldn't have even looked, like they probably just would have been like, you know.

SPEAKER_03

I think I yeah, I had no other option. It was in my face. So you know, like even if I looked away, the spray would have hit me, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Like, yeah. But I do think I do think there's a lot of ways you can like deal with moments like that in surfing, and I think that like that sort of response is actually the response that will like keep you healthy enough to respect who you're surfing against and also want to still improve and get better and stuff, because otherwise you could just go dark, right? You could just be like, oh, and just like that's it. I'm you know, and I think that's that's super cool that you were able to be like shocks back. But that was pretty cool. That was pretty insane.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's it's not losing your surf fandom, no matter what position you end up in surfing, is like the best way to stay stay good and stay progressing and and all that stuff is like never not being a fan of surfing, which is something I've struggled with lately, or like in the past couple years, I'm kind of coming back around to it, or like I'm starting to watch contests and stuff a little bit more and more like edits in that. But there was like a f a f time when I like I just got burnt out on all that stuff, and it's like it the content is so saturated nowadays that it's really hard to like pick out the good stuff. But I've seen a couple things lately that are just like really got me fired up again. But I do think that's like a huge thing. You see some people that once they achieve a certain level, they're never they're they're no longer like fans of surfing, really. They're just like, oh I am I am surfing, you know? Totally or like Jack talking about like being front row, like, yeah, like at the end of the day, that sucks to lose a heat on someone no matter what. But like at the end of the day, you're like, oh shit, like that was a cool moment in surfing, which is I'm a fan of, and I was there for it.

SPEAKER_00

And that that personality and that like that aspect of being a surfer and an athlete will actually sustain you. You'll be like 65 years old one day and frothing on like whatever small waves in Kauai or Australia because you're a fan of like that feeling or that moment, which you see the guys that are about that like continue to surf and have this balanced, healthy perspective of surfing, and then you see the guys that were just it was kind of all about them and whether it was working out for them and they just like aren't even involved anymore when they're older. I think there's like something to be said about that. Um, if you're a purist, if you're passionate about surfing, you'll you'll probably get to enjoy it more than everyone else.

SPEAKER_03

You're totally right, man. I got I got hit with this quote. I was doing a mentor shit with Ben Crow. Um, if you look into him, insanely insightful human, like uh sports psychologist, like every he's done it all. And um he told me something that really, really helped me with my last few years on tour, and it was just a simple quote. Uh was kind of what I got from him, but it was replacing expectations with appreciation, and that helped me so much. Could rather than go to an event and be like, Oh, I need to get this, this, and this, it was more so like go to oh look, I'm in this beautiful place, oh I get to do this, I get to paddle out for this heat, how cool is life, and that switched my mindset so well, and I still carry that with me. Like I try and I try and be really grateful for like the the cool little moments, and I I I think I think um without even knowing, like you seem like that, you seem incredibly grateful, which is awesome to see, man.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I am, and it's funny that you're saying that because um just talking, reflecting on talking with John the other day, he said the same thing, like he literally um there's something there because he said um he was just encouraging me, oh, as you go on to the challenger this year, like see everything as an opportunity and be curious about it. Um, because as soon as you turn it into a I must get this, or you're fighting for this this result, it it takes away all the joy and actually limits your abilities. Your body, you start to engage more muscles, you get tight, you get tense. And uh he was saying, you know, that curiosity is what kept keeps serving fun when you need a nine or when you keep losing, because you just keep seeing moments and opportunities to reflect and be like, whoa, I need a nine right now. Like, okay, what would that look like? I guess that would look like me doing a really big air on this specific type of wave or getting a big barrel. And you start to like look for the opportunity, I think, instead of feeling like it's over, it's done, I need this lofty big score and I'm already giving up. And he was telling me that that's something that he's carried even into sailing and that like coming out because he he, you know, he obviously is taking time out of contests right now, and hopefully he returns. But he was like, Yeah, I'm curious what this will be like. And then now that he's sailing, it's like I'm curious why this problem just happened on the boat. And oh, I guess I have to learn how to you know solve this problem, and this is an interesting situation. We're stuck here for two days now. Like, what are we gonna do? And I think that that it's a it's a it's an entire it encompasses all of life, it's not just a surfing thing. So um yeah, stay curious, I guess. That's cool. I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_03

I love that. Stay curious, man. That is very cool.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I'm uh I wrote down a couple questions that I want to follow up on. Okay, go for it, Albi. Uh the floor is yours. I don't want to why do you say it like that? Do you have something you want to say, Jack?

SPEAKER_03

No, no, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm unmuting and muting myself just so you don't hear all the freaking crazy wildlife.

SPEAKER_01

You're doing a really good job, and it sounds natural. Never mind that. Is it sound natural?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, good. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

It sounds really good. Like it doesn't sound weird at all.

SPEAKER_03

It's okay, because it was like two people fighting a minute ago, and I'm just like, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01

That's awesome. Well, okay, so we've been talking about contests a lot. I want to start talking about media and that kind of side of things with you. So I'm curious. So, so when you you said you grew up watching John John, how did you watch John John? Like, where how did you become a John John fan? What was that? Like, what was consuming surf media like throughout your life? Because I'm very curious because it'll be so much different than how me and Jack grew up.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, um, one thing too, I was just reflecting on is two really big edits I want to say that were um maybe even before I was ever a fan of John was um in between giants and uh actually sick. Is that I don't even know if that's what how you pronounce it, but S-I-C. You made this edit, and it's like when I was a Grom, I just gravitated towards like things that I thought were cool and my brothers thought were cool, and then we would watch them like most people just on repeat, and I wouldn't really get curious about like other stuff that was out there. So I watched those two videos a ton. I watched Julian Wilson and Dane Reynolds a ton, and I would watch it mostly on Vimeo, and it was always a motivation to go surf. So I was like, hey, I want to get motivated to surf. I'm gonna open up Vimeo because I remember like for whatever reason, a lot of good surf stuff was on Vimeo. And I don't even know like why or like what happened to Vimeo, but I I'd watch Vimeo videos, and I would watch it with my brothers, we'd gather around the computer, we watched, you know, a three to five minute video, and then we'd just have the song playing in our head and have the clips playing in our head as we went out to go surf. And then everything we did, we were just trying to, you know, be like you guys, be like John, be like Julian. So I grew up like that. And then I think it was when um when uh View from a Blue Moon was obviously like a big one in terms of like surf media, but I feel like I became a bigger fan of John when I was like 12 or 13. So that would have been like 2006. I guess it was like when he probably won his first world title, and he released that series 12, and then I got more fascinated with the competition side of things, and then and then I started like caring a lot more about how people did events and what following the documentaries of people doing events and stuff, and I've kind of been bummed because lately in life I've stopped being so interested in free surfing, which is like I need to get back to that because there's something to be said about when that's what you care about, you start surfing better and people appreciate your surfing more. And as soon as you get comped out and focused on scores, then all of a sudden you're just blending in with everyone. Um, but yeah, I'm like I am such a big fan of free surfing, and sometimes I'm like, wow, I wish that free surfing was as viable um as I mean, I guess with YouTube and all these new things, it's still a viable path. But it I was so inspired by everybody that free surfed, and even the parts of John and Julian and Dane where they were just free surfers, and that was like what I consumed was just creativity and doing big moves that nobody would do in a contest. And um, I guess John it kind of made the pathway forward for like being a free surfer that does contests. Um, but I was going up that was like everything. Watching YouTube and Vimeo videos at 13 or 14 years old was like that. That's what got me that's what got me hooked on surfing, I think.

SPEAKER_01

That's awesome. Vimeo was the best. That's really cool. I case, yeah. I think it was my favorite time and Um and for surf media because it was it was like the only um it was like a meritocracy where it actually mattered your content because there wasn't an algorithm you couldn't pay to have your video show up more. There wasn't like a oh like you liked this, then you'll like this. It was just like you had to go search for it. Yeah. And you you you know, you get advertised for it on Instagram or whatever, but it was like there wasn't like money behind the algorithms at that time. And so it was like really cool because you could the viewership on Vimeo was so accurate to like the impact of the of the video itself and the quality. Like I think that was the closest viewership and quality were they had like people that would like the staff picks, right?

SPEAKER_00

They had people that you and kind of rate it, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we we got one of those ever and it was a big deal. I think pretty sure every one of John's videos was a staff pick. Um, but that's so cool, like that to hear you say that, because like yeah, um, that was one of the things I noticed in our old podcast. I gotta stop saying like so much. So hard to do.

SPEAKER_00

Um then you start thinking about it, and then you say it more.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you could just on you could just mute yourself, dude, like I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But so it's trippy to me today that the surf media, it's cool to hear you say that because I guess you're slightly older than you know, like a full-blown like Grom, but I feel like what gets consumed the most today is like the the Nathan Florence route. He's kind of like not quite like him, but he's a good example of where it's like he gets crazy waves and he rips. Don't get me wrong, but his his media output isn't action-based, you know, by any means. It's bringing people pretty much all those vlogs, or it's like the Jamie O'Brien um plan, basically, because he was the first to kind of do that, where it was like his media was there was action in it and there was top-tier action because he's a badass pipe surfer and stuff, but that wasn't the point, you know? It was it was the story surrounding it, it was the humor surrounding it, and it was developing this character. And yeah, I just want to know at like how people in your generation think about that. How how many of like say your fellow surfers are gravitating towards that as opposed to making an action segment these days?

SPEAKER_00

Well, you guys are gonna relate because I think both of you guys really care about surfing and style and authenticity. It's like nowadays to you have to be you have to be aware of the way that culture shifts and like how making money and being like in order to go out and surf every day, you have to be making money to do that. And so you have to be able to be aware of like what's still viable. And I'm trying to figure that out because I'll get in, you know, like heated arguments with friends or with my family about this influencer route. Um, but because someone like Nathan, they I mean, maybe it's something that he would like say that he like he made it in his life, but he's somebody that fits it. Like it you see this fit for him where he's been able to create this momentum that he's not like bummed or weirded out by doing what he does because he really enjoys it. And he's not really he's not the sort of guy that just is like dedicated to like I want to have the coolest, most stylish. He just wants to bring people along for the ride. And he's a good he's a good communicator. And uh yeah, it's hard for me because I see a lot of friends of mine or like surfers I know that'll go the influencer out and then just get totally just flamed by everyone else. And it's like they've they've it's almost like they've broken away, you know, like they've um they've lost their minds. Now they're just they've sold out, they no longer care, they just want to make money. And I I want to be able to see like a like a healthy in-between where people can go from being like caring about what they put out, caring about how they surf, but also inviting people into it and being able to create content consistently where they don't have to like wait for the once-a-year surf trip that'll make an edit, but can like every day go out and create content that people want to watch. And I mean, you guys, I'm I want to hear your perspective on it too, but it's so interesting for someone like me who, yeah, my end goal is to get the results and to be a competitive surfer and make it on tour and fight, you know, with all those people. I I love that. And I I r I appreciate the discipline and the the singularity of it, or like that you're just focused on how good you can surf a heat. But I need to be aware at my age that like people really care about marketability and viewership and uh being brought along for the experience. So I'm trying to figure that out. And I'm probably I'm probably pretty bad. I don't have like a very um like, oh, I'm just gonna try this. I'm just gonna throw this against the wall and see if it sticks. I'm more like a perfectionist. Like I want to make sure what I'm doing is exactly what I want. And so I think there's like somewhat of a balance there, right? Where you're you're not just quiet and in your own corner and no one knows what you're doing, um, but you're also not like selling out. So I know my generation sees a lot of like that. They're everyone's afraid to be an influencer, but deep down, probably they want to because they want to make money. Um that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01

That's different than my perspective of it. I feel like everyone wants to be an influencer because everyone is now. Yeah, I but I that's interesting to hear you say that. Yeah, Jack, thoughts? You can take yourself off mute.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I can understand where you think the the stigma of influencer is, but like I feel like you know, uh the reason probably Nathan uh and he's always the best kind of person to pinpoint, because he just really doesn't care. Like, there's so much honesty and truth behind his content. It's like you're not really like you're talking about, you're just brought along for the ride. I don't think he cares about what other people think, and I think that's a really cool way to kind of navigate what he's doing. Um, I like the content that you're creating. I think you found a little the the stuff where you're doing like the real analytical surf kind of co I like the coaching almost. I think that's super cool, and it's super insightful because someone when I look at your surfing, like you are like the triple threat, man. Like, you know, you've got everything. You've got the big waves, you've got the airs and rail, and you've got barrels, like so. It's really cool when I look at your stuff because you're very analytical and can break it down. So me for me personally, I've stood away, I've kind of stood back, and I've I don't know the landscape's probably even shifted in the few years that I've stood stood back from it because it felt like especially with the um with how fast the the creating and I don't know all that stuff. It just feels like it's the landscape's always changing, and you're just gonna like you said, you gotta throw stuff throw stuff at the wall and see what's the what you know what sticks. But um, yeah, I think if you find find your own niche, there is like like I feel like you're kind of doing that. I feel like there is a way to make it less cringy and more feasible. Like it's you know, I think there are definitely ways to still navigate it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, speaking of quotes, oh god, I'm not gonna remember it actually. Damn it. Do you tattoo it on your arm, dude? I I need a tattooed. I need another tattooed buddy who was a um filmer. Because so this is gonna lead me into my next question for you. Um I was filming with my buddy John, who just he shoots water here. He's the best, John Spencer. But we got all these like crazy clips, and um, like uh the I don't know if you saw like uh recently one of our airwaves was good and I did a bunch of airs. Um you would rip that wave if you ever come so. Yeah. I actually put it in a cobblestones segment in attractor distractions and just actually filmed it here.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, you need you need like you on that left. I don't know where that left is that Albi's always doing. Yeah, fucking next winter it's on. Okay, crazy full rights and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, his kind of point was so I was talking, I was like, I feel so stupid because I so I get these clips, you know, and there's there's two or three in there that are like a A plus clips. Like for me. I was I it was a good day, I had a good session, and John crushed some of the water clips, some of the land clips. And I was like, I personally know, like almost guaranteed, you put one clip with audio. I just did it this well before. One clip like raw audio from land, you're gonna crush the algorithm. You're gonna get a bunch of views, it's gonna get shared a lot. Like, and that's kind of the thing. It's like you're oh, you're bringing people along, they get to hear the real audio, the real beach. Yeah, they're right there with yeah, yeah. Like, even iPhone clips do better than a red camera. And I understand that, but like for me personally, I'm like, I come from growing up on surf movies. That's what I'm watching. And like, if I have to do Instagram, I'm gonna do Instagram the way I want to do it, and I want to make mini edits, and so I'm gonna try and like my goal with that was like, yeah, I know I could spread these clips out over like three months and get a ton of views on the single clips and put them in carousels where I the rest of them, I'm like, bro, yeah, like doing a selfie. Um, but I'm not gonna fucking do that because that's not my passion, and I know it, so it I would I'm gonna lose viewership on that. But my filmer's point was basically like the the people who are fans of you through that are like there's this weird fuck, I forget the there's a book about it where it's like you only need X amount of true people who like gravitate towards your content. You don't need all these like meaningless views because it's like if you have a whatever a hundred or two percent of your following or three percent of your following is like true fans that would actually like buy the products you like that are true fans, like that matters more. Yes, you know, it's it's it's a lot harder to quantify for companies and stuff, but it it does have a serious value, and I think you've kind of been doing that with the way your content is, where it's like, yeah, you could go the you know, you we get algorithm chase like everyone does, and we all do it at times. I'm not gonna say I'm never algorithm chase, but I think when you don't, and especially more and more as as we like move further and further into like everyone's getting better at chasing the algorithm, people are gonna start to gravitate towards those people who have just been doing the content they like the whole time where it's genuine.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, Nathan Flores is an example where his genuine content lined up with the algorithm like just by chance, basically. But I think sticking to your genuine content is the most important thing, and I think you're doing a pretty good job of that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I was talking to my brother about that the other day when when uh you know you don't you don't follow someone, but maybe there's an inside joke that you have with a friend, or um, it's some relatable moment that they share, and it kind of sticks in your friend group or you know, between me and my brothers, and then years later it's still a joke, and we pull up this guy's, you know, Instagram or whatever, the way he's doing things is still the same, and you appreciate it. You're like, oh, I liked this guy because of what he did, and he's still doing that thing, and I still appreciate it. Um, there's something to be said for sure about if you're like always changing, your audience is probably always gonna be changing, you're getting a lot of transience, and like no one's gonna really like stick there with you. And so, yeah, I think and I and then to in order to be sustainable, you have to pick something that you like to do. So I think that's a good way of viewing it is like find the thing that you like to do, and then just remember that like um there's gonna be like a core group of people. You have to find something that's somewhat of a felt need for people. You need to find something that you appreciate, but also they appreciate as well. Um, you don't want to be too, I think, individualistic about it, but I totally agree. I think that's good advice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, wait, wait for the trends to catch up to whatever you're doing because they always go in a circle anyway. Like, look at Zeke wearing baggy board shorts. Now all of a sudden it's caught up to him. Now Jack's out of touch with his short shorts, it all goes in a circle, man.

SPEAKER_03

I gotta share these thighs off, man. I've been working hard on these.

SPEAKER_01

It's okay. Your demographic probably loves it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, no, my demographics change now.

SPEAKER_00

You guys ever look at that? You ever look at like the age groups and and and and demographics and like what who's following you from where? More guys.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I've checked it out. Okay, wait. Let's let's should we guess how many women follow Jack? Because this would be fun.

SPEAKER_03

It's changed. Oh, I'm I'm sure it's even you have all of Alana's.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, maybe when I was maybe when I was Luke, yeah, maybe when I was Luke's age it was a lot of women, but now it's probably just like you don't think I would think it's more because Alana advertises you as the perfect husband, which you know who knows how true this is.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. No, I slip her a $50, you know, $50 every now and again. Babe, pushes in.

SPEAKER_01

But have you looked right now?

SPEAKER_03

Because I would love to guess I haven't looked in forever. No.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Well, I would guess it's do you think it's above 50?

SPEAKER_03

I think it's like oh yeah, I think you'd be right. It'd probably be like 55 to 60 percent women, I would say.

SPEAKER_00

I think I remember I checked about a year ago and it was like 75% guys from 20 or 18 to um 28 or something.

SPEAKER_01

Dude, mine is I have 12 women. And it's all guys like 35 and older, is it's just all dudes. Which, bruh, shout out, guys, shout out. Those are the guys who buy surf product. I don't know what you guys are advertising to you.

SPEAKER_03

I have no idea, man. That is so good, Alby.

SPEAKER_00

It is an interesting topic to just bring up with people because it's like it's so it's dude, it's how people, it's how we get measured today in this like in this surf like social media economy.

SPEAKER_01

So it's like worth talking about. And so funny because I feel like people hide so much of that. Like, I I don't know, where it's like they don't want to talk about it because they don't want the companies to know. And it's like, dude, the companies know, like you they can look at your analytics. So it's like I think it's worth talking about. It's just funny to see who who's who's capturing which audience. Yeah, just an interesting, interesting topic. Yeah, it is for sure.

SPEAKER_03

Sick. Well, thanks so much, Luke, for for coming on board and and and coming on the podcast and chatting, man. It's been really cool to chat to you.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for having me. Is there anything else you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, anything else you want to sign off on?

SPEAKER_00

Man, uh I'd love to talk to you guys more. Maybe I'll DM you guys and ask you some more questions. Anytime, dude. I really appreciate you guys doing this because I think hopefully, if anything, um anyone that's younger can, you know, just realize like, I don't know, I think a lot of the time the answers are like kind of out there. You just need to like just ask. And um, you guys are giving me the opportunity to do that. So I really appreciate that. And uh yeah, I think you guys have so much um knowledge and wisdom about uh what you guys do and the experiences you've had. So I'm just a big fan and appreciate uh you guys having me on and I'm enjoying already what I've listened to so far.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks, Lake. You're the man, dude. Good luck in uh South Africa. I know we'll be watching. I'll be tuning in.

SPEAKER_00

All right, you guys.

SPEAKER_01

All right, say it, brother.