Washed Podcast with Albee Layer and Jack Freestone

Acceptance, mindset and inside stories - Washed Podcast - Ep 6

• Jack Freestone • Episode 6

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0:00 | 1:07:49

Inside stories from the biggest jaws contest day ever. Mindset, and overcoming fear. Gain some insights from one of the best big wave surfers in the world Albee Layer as he unpacks some wisdom. x

SPEAKER_01

I don't say that I'm in trouble. But anyway. So I wanted to check in on us just in general. How do you think the podcast is going?

SPEAKER_03

Man, I love it. I've had some awesome feedback. The only issue that's killing me, and it's probably killing you, is the audio quality has been so bad. We should just apologize for that. Yeah, I think we just owe the world a general apology, like a blanket apology for how bad the audio uh came up. Um it's been Yeah, Tori's Tori's episode was we're gonna have to redo that, man, because he he yeah, we need we need a better version of that because it was such good stories.

SPEAKER_01

Um we had great stories in there, I know. I was so bummed because it was just I guess we ended up just using the shotgun mic and not the lav mics, and just as a you know nerdy editor. Um but it was it was tough. I was so bummed, kind of so we're learning, is what we want to communicate to people. Is this brand new to us and we're learning? And we want to get back in the studio, but right now Jack's in Australia, so we're trying to Jack wanted to do once a week.

SPEAKER_02

I like it, dude. It's cool.

SPEAKER_01

Jack wanted to do once a week. I want to do once every two weeks.

SPEAKER_03

I'm gonna have to do one every two years.

SPEAKER_01

It's every once a year annual thing. Um even having good youth. I mean, Jack's on the Jack's doing all the work just to let people know. And at this point. But I know I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start working on it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um, I think next time we see each other in studio live and for real, um, I don't know, it'll be easier to navigate. Kind of hard doing that. It's it's I've I've kind of got to a place with the podcast where it's kind of easy. Like I've got the my little things that I know how to do. So um it's been cool. I've had really good feedback. Like, I I messaged you, I've had awesome feedback. I messaged you, I've been stopped in the road like three times. And they're like, Love your podcast. I'm like, that's cool. Like it getting stopped feels a little bit rarer these days. Um it was cool for people just to be like, ah, they they like they they're liking the stuff that we've done so far. Um obviously the Shane Dorian one has been a hit. Um but yeah, how are you feeling about everything, dude?

SPEAKER_01

Um I've gotten mixed bag, you know. Definitely the the audio, and then like yeah, you know, I I I disagreed with Shane on some things, and and people like to aren't gonna not many people are gonna pick my side in that argument. Um But yeah, it no, it's been cool though, and I think, yeah, there's definitely things moving forward. The things I want to do is talk to girls because we don't need another bro out podcast. There's about a thousand of those. So I agree. We're we have Carissa hopefully coming soon.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, Alana's. We'll put the pressure on her if I put it out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Alana's, yeah. Alana's definitely gonna be on. Yeah, that's one of the main things. And I want to dive more into like dive more, that sounds so funny. Um, but just more yeah. I want to get real real vulnerable and open about things, you know, so it's not just like another surf podcast. Because I do think that's something.

SPEAKER_03

Are we ready to cry like six episodes in or whatever?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it gotta ease people into it, but yeah. I think um I think that's that's lacking in surfing a little bit. It's just like it's just funny stories and stuff, and like the the feelings and because I kind of I re-listened to the Shane episode, and there's some things I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, we'll probably give it in more trouble. What are some stuff you wanted to speak in the Shane Dorian episode? What was some stuff that you wanted to cover?

SPEAKER_01

Well, first of all, I thought it was cool. But okay, I have a question for you. Do you not feel like Shane um is this just a total narcissistic thing on my part? Do you feel like he has a hard time complimenting me, except for and especially at Jaws? Like, I feel like you had to really back him into a corner to say anything nice, and he like will never say anything nice about the West Ball. He always like makes it sound like the inside like corner, and like, but if you talk about Nathan or Billy or Kai, like he will go off about how amazing they are. But I just I personally feel like he doesn't like complimenting me. And it's I say this as someone who's one of Shane's biggest fans of all time and has been since you know the show, yeah, which is an old Taylor Steele movie. Um and it's funny because I usually, you know, I I pride myself on not caring too much about what people say and think, but um yeah, but he's a legend, so it's something I I feel, and I want to I want you to know if I'm just like two in my own head.

SPEAKER_03

I well I I so my perspective is so different to yours because you have like Shane's probably the godfather of Jaws in a way, and you are the next generation behind that. I think there's a compliment in there when he put you as like one of the top three. He just never navigated as to who's one, who's two, who's three. He was kind of like on the like just neutral about everything. He wasn't bagging people, he wasn't complimenting people. That's kind of how I felt.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Your perspective, like I said, your perspective's probably way different because you're closer to it.

SPEAKER_01

It's um, and I don't like I'm not here to say like I am the best, but like I have been the best like a couple of years, especially recently. Like, and I'm I mean I agree, man.

SPEAKER_03

If I had a one, two, and three, it's definitely you at the one. So and that's just not biased because that's just because you've only been there three times now.

SPEAKER_01

You stay with me when you're trying to get it. Yeah, exactly. No, but even when we we opened up and he talked about the Nathan Florence thing, I really I went back and listened to it and it was really interesting. Cause he he um kind of goes off, and I like made a comment, you know, I said, like, oh, what if your life isn't it like what if you don't have the freedom of Nathan? And he kind of was like, he didn't always have that freedom, you know, like he used to only be brought on trips as John John's brother. And I like there's things I wish I said, I was like, well, that's a crazy head start in a surf career. And I like he seemed so unaware of like a couple things where I was just like, wait, what do you mean? Like, he's like, yeah, like the sponsors only sponsored him because he was John John's brother. I was like, yeah, you were sponsored. Like before, and like, again, like I I don't have to talk up Nathan Florence, everyone knows how amazing he is now, and how he's like the guy, and he's absolutely a badass. But I'm just saying, like, it was really interesting how he said all that, and then he and he went off on like a couple things where he's like, Yeah, you know, he vested all this money in his own media and his own content, and you know, he like worked really hard and pushed that thing uphill, and I was just like, I spent all my money on surf movies, like when I made money. I was like, I understand what you're saying. I'm just like, I think it's naive to think that that path works for everyone in the same way. Like, I think it's really naive to s think like, oh, like, first of all, being brought on surf trips as John John's brother, you know, and I got to go on some of those surf trips as John John's friend, so I got that a similar head start in a way.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um is a head start.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. I had a I had a lot of John John privilege, even though he'd always, you know, take my best waves and just put one or whatever. You know, I'm just kidding. But yeah, I think so there's things about that conversation that kind of like, and I I listened to it with um uh you know a couple friends, and they were just like, Wow, like that sounds kind of out of touch, like to not acknowledge the luck that goes into success. Because on any level, it doesn't matter how hard you work, like there's someone who worked just as hard and didn't make it because of different luck. And there's someone who would have worked even harder, but you know, just wasn't born in the right place or whatever. So I thought there was a little bit of like when we had that conversation, I wish I pressed more. You know, now that I have a podcast, I can do what Sterling does and just argue with no one there after it's done. So that's what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I felt like that was something we didn't I I wish I had said more of, like, wait, no, like it's to not acknowledge the luck that goes into even when you work really hard and even when you are really talented, like to not give luck its thing is just really like it I don't know, it's not a it you need to have the humility to be like, you know what, like this is part luck.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And I don't there is part of that conversation where I just wish I pressed harder on that kind of point. Um yeah, because I thought that was a little strange where he's like, he's self-made, he's self-made. He kept saying that, and I was just like, and then he would be in the same sentence be like, yeah, he used to only get to go on trips as John John's brother and I was just like, I ain't got to go on trips, like that's not the same thing. Um but anyway, that was part of my rant.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I get okay, so okay, with that being said, so you have your career and you have Nathan's career, and with the power of hindsight right now, is there anything you would have done differently in your career to navigate like the shift? Like, is it anything you would have to do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

A hundred percent. There is there's some things I I definitely like um I I realized there is definitely a point in my career where I got caught up in being the contrarian, and um like sta Stab would bait me. It's funny because even um even Nathan and John once baited me into this. What do you mean? Like, okay, this is a funny story. So I'm still paying for this, is um a handful of guys on the North Shore, including Nathan and John, just basically made like a little remark to me. They like I had a phone call with like Eric and stuff when they were doing the Vans Triple Crown online. And even like Billy and like all those guys, they were complaining about so Vans, one of the rules in the Vans Triple Crown online was you had to ride a progressive craft, which was like a twin fin or something else at one of the waves.

SPEAKER_02

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

And from anyone's perspective who was thinking about that clearly, it seemed like a uh just a play for them to get their like more hipstery alternative athletes to be more in the mix of this. Because otherwise the Johns, the Billy's, the Nates, all those guys are just gonna absolutely smash everyone, and then you know, they have all these like stylish surfers on these different boards, and they're like, oh, how can we get them more involved? And to call it a progressive craft is very silly to me. That is just you're moving backwards, that's not progression, it's the opposite. Be real.

unknown

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

But it's funny because have you ridden a good twin fin? I don't know about that, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, you're not even starting with me. At pipeline, yeah, let's go get a twin fin and go to pipe.

SPEAKER_03

Hey, Kelly did it, won a heat out there.

SPEAKER_01

One one heat, yeah, but I think of all the heats as well. Okay, yeah, but so that was a funny thing where those guys all kind of called me and like I felt like they baited me, and then I made a post about it on Instagram, like I do, and just point out something I think is silly, and and I like try to do it with humor, but it almost never gets taken with humor because maybe it's a little too close to home or whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And yeah, Vans still to this day doesn't like me because of it. And why? Because one of the reasons I said the progressive craft is just like I just made a joke about how silly that is. Yeah. And basically what I just said here, but like in a joking Instagram form where of course it's not a full discussion. And um, yeah, it so fast forward to years later, I was trying to get into the band's Pipe Masters and uh talking to some people, and that came up, and that was part of the reason I couldn't get in. Was because they still have to be. Just because you made a comment. Yeah, and there was like people at the company that said, like, oh no, we're not putting him in. And just to just to be crystal clear on how the surfing world works sometimes, because they were like they were promoting this thing, like the new thing where it's like airs and big barrels at pipe, and I was just like, yo, I've dedicated my life to those two things. Yeah, good. I really want to be a part of this. Um and I was there a limited amount of people?

SPEAKER_03

Sorry, was there a limited amount of people in this event?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And it was like, it was uh um, like I could have not got in and it would have been totally fine because I don't serve pipe, and there's totally an argument for it. Yeah. But to hear that was the reason was what bothered me. I was like, you know, because it there's an argument like, oh, he doesn't serve pipe. Like if I heard that, I was like, that yeah, I don't serve pipe, but like I think I could do a good job if there wasn't people out. Um you know, and I could make my argument, but to be just like, we don't like him was was the feedback I got. I don't know how 100% true it was, it was one person to another person to me. Um but to hear that I was just like, whoa, really? And it was like something that every a huge portion of the surfers involved in the Vans Triple Crown during those years didn't like that rule. And then everyone was echoing kind of the same thing personally, and then I said it publicly. The rule went away the next year, they changed it, and I get shit on because of it and miss an opportunity, and then all those guys don't have to write a twin finite pipe anymore.

SPEAKER_00

And that was just something that really like that was a typical thing that kind of bummed me out.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that sucks, man. I think maybe, yeah. Yeah, that sucks. You should never get shadow ban for it. It kind of sounds like you just it didn't even say something that was total that like even that offensive. Just kind of bringing up a point. Um that sucks.

SPEAKER_02

But that happens a lot. It happens a lot. Yeah, shadow ban that the shadow ban is real.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you forget that all these decisions are just made by people and people have emotions. So that's something when you asked what I would change, I would be a lot more strategic in the things I said and just realize that sometimes humor doesn't translate in a quick caption on Instagram and be a little smart about it. And I got caught up in being the contrarian, so like things like that where someone's, you know, a couple guys were just like on a phone with me, just like, wow, this this rule's kind of whack, and I'm like, oh don't worry, I got it. Like, I'll go make a big deal about it, kind of a thing. So that was like, those are kind of the lessons I've learned. Um but at the same time, I'm not gonna like. Yeah, yeah, I just yeah, kind of dead. Yeah. Um at the same time, it's just like saying nothing is I feel silly for it too. Especially if it's something that is what most people are thinking and no one wants to say it.

SPEAKER_03

But well, yeah, I I think you'd be so surprised at how many people are on the opposite spectrum of that that want to say something but don't.

SPEAKER_01

I no, I I I I know that's why I felt the need to say something.

SPEAKER_03

That's why that's yeah, that's why I feel like, you know, I've always I've always gravitated to you because it's like you're just truthful. I don't know. There's there's so much truth about what you're saying. So it's like I like people when they're more outspoken rather than behind closed doors, you know. Because the same the same version you're getting online is the same version you get in real life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and that's not to say that I I think I'm right all the time, and there's things I've said that I just totally wish I hadn't said, and like that stuff, but um, but yeah, a lot of my complaints in surfing aren't mine alone. That's that's one thing I want to like I want to get across is a lot of the time it's I hear it in my friend group and and the and other surfers, and then finally I'll say something, and it feels like I get the brunt of whatever the consequences are of whoever got offended by it, because you know, surfing has our sport has huge egos. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I I've I'm not I'm not immune to it, I have a big ego too, which is why which is why some of the things in the chain episode offended me so much.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so what else offended you? What like with well not offended you, what like yeah, offended is not the word.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yeah, that that's exactly how I would put it. I listened to it, so when I listened to it, that's why I wanted to, you know, talk about it a little more. Was when I listened to it, I was just like, oh, there's things I wish I would have said. And it was kind of weird too, because like the um even with the audio, I would I said a couple things that just went past and like he didn't even hear. Yeah, there was a couple of those where I was like trying to interject and it just like I swear it was just because I was sitting further away from the computer or something. Um I have no idea. So we're just we're we're learning.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, first four episodes, man, there was a little bit of elements behind closed door that were making it very hard to navigate, but now it's like we're figuring it out. We're figuring it out, we're on an upward trajectory. Um but yeah, so which things did you wish you challenged more?

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, so he I feel like he always makes jabs at the West Bowl, kind of the inside thing. And um, which I always which I kind of push back on where I said there was a wave where I should find that way where Tom Lowe and and Tori took off, Tori was on the West Bowl, Tom Lowe was on the North Peak, and it's too deep. And I just watched how pounded both of them got, and Tori was like smoked, concussioned, puked, destroyed, and Tom Lowe like popped up on his mind and popped back out. So there's it's different waves and stuff and whatnot. Um so there's that, but then when we started talking about the Twiggy thing, I want to clarify my view on that a little bit, I guess.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_01

Because I actually got kind of a lot of hate from people. Not a ton. I mean, I yeah, I I like everyone, I focus too hard on the hate for sure, versus the positive.

SPEAKER_03

Explain explain uh your position and and why you think um his wave shouldn't really be.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so credit a design. I kind of want to tell the story of that day, because I I thought about it and I was like, oh, that was a really cool day in surfing. But it's it is gonna sound so cocky from my perspective. But fuck it. You know, I I did something cool that day, so fuck it. Okay. But okay, so that day they ran, it was fourth Jaws contest, you know. Um, whatever it was. And it was a huge swell, and we were all I just got Dan to send me all the footage of this, so it'll be good. Uh or just like the footage of six waves or whatever. So it was a huge swell, and there was a lot of wind on the forecast. And it was pretty west too, which makes it more hollow and kind of gnarlier. And for me out, I I was feeling good. I was like, oh, okay, this is I like big, I like west, I don't mind the wind. I think I do better in the wind than the other surfers. I would consider that an advantage just because it's my home and I grew up in it. Um compared to, you know, most people that grew up not in Maui wind, it's pretty crazy. Um so they started the event, it was huge, like it was so gnarly last morning, and I think they ran two heats of women. I think there was one or two injuries, I think one made wave, and there was like one cleanup set that was gnarly. I remember talking to Paige about it, and they got it was gnarly. And so they switched to men's, and the first heat was like Billy, Twiggy, Peeley, Russell Bjork, and a handful of other, I think like Alex Patello was in there maybe at the time. Um I was in heat too, and I was with Shane. So we were sitting there, I was freaking out that whole morning because it was huge, and just to um like it's really hard to describe how much harder people go in contests. I mean, I'm sure you saw it in Tahiti, right?

SPEAKER_03

Like how big do you think? No, it's a massive safety net. Like you've got you have all these sources that um, you know, like you got the jet ski, you've got people. People watching you like cameras and all this stuff. You have all these things that you don't necessarily have in a free surf, so you're like obviously you feel a little bit more invincible than regular, like then just going for a free surf. Because you're like, okay, I got 30 minutes, I'm gonna send it as hard as I physically can in this 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm sure you got to see a lot of that in Tahiti. Yeah. Right? I did. Like imagine like there's surfers on the CT that caught their how many surfers on the CT have caught their heaviest wave of their entire surfing career during that contest? Probably a pretty big percentage, wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'd yeah, I'd have to say like maybe 60 to 70 percent.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, see, that's crazy. And I think that's a lot of people don't know that. Like, no, those guys, a lot of those guys wouldn't be surfing, which is I think kind of awesome in a way. This is a whole other topic I want to touch, but with Carissa, but I think it's awesome to see the like I want to see more of those events on the CT where people get pushed way past their comfort zone. Yeah. Because I think putting the girls at pipe proved that that is the best thing you can do.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because those girls got pushed past their comfort zone and absolutely overachieved and put on like one of the craziest shows ever.

SPEAKER_02

I agree.

SPEAKER_01

And I I think both girls and guys need more of that on the on the championship tour.

SPEAKER_03

I agree.

SPEAKER_01

I totally agree.

SPEAKER_03

But yeah, back to back to back to contest day.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, people go and the Jaws event is people go freaking hardcore. Crazy. Billy during a Jaws event is an absolute spectacle to see. He is absolutely just what he turns off the fear part of his brain completely. And he is just 100% belief, 100% just go for it. Um so the the first heat started, we were sitting in the channel, I was freaking out. I was like, this is my event, this is it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna finally, you know, take out Billy, I'm gonna win. Um, these are my conditions. And I think Billy caught the first wave, which I think he's done in almost every Jaws event. And so this was a funny thing. So Billy catches the first wave, huge one, super gnarly, bombs, he just posted it actually. Um, pulls in, and it's just a huge running barrel, like runs down the like took off on the like inside of the North Peak, like all the way pulls into the West Bowl. Yeah, yeah, he's he's a North Peak guy, and he took off out there, like feather dropped, pulled in, the thing was huge, just rifling. I was sitting in the channel just screaming. And I think so. I think if Billy had made that wave, this is to prove my point that it's not all just about me, because I have I have trouble getting Billy compliments, as I'm sure people know, because we have been battling each other for a long time. If Billy would have made that wave, I think it would have been the best paddle wave at Jaws in history. Um it was crazy. It ran so far, and he made it so far. And so the funny thing was he got like a nine on that wave. And then a couple other people went, gnarly wipeouts. I think Russell Björk is the only one who made a wave. He kind of sh like it was a mellow one, you know, like just the corner. I think everyone ate shit on one. Billy ate shit on a second one, got well that was crazy. And then Twiggy got his wave. And I want to say I agree with Shane that it I think it was the heaviest wave ever paddled. Like, I don't want to belittle that part. I watched it again and again, and it is so gnarly. Um the way it doubles up, but I will say it was more of a peak where like Billy's wave ran down the thing, where like Twiggy's was as someone who's been out there a lot, like it looked it would have looked pretty makeable, even though it had that big crease and double up in it. From where he was, there there was a shoulder far away, but not that far away. And you know how it is, like when you go on a good one out there, it looks like a closeout. Um I think that thing.

SPEAKER_03

His body come out. He's just not attached to his board.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so and he like Shane was so funny, he's like, he didn't get a chip shot, he totally got a chip shot, he just had the crease halfway down, which is so rare. It's the the crease halfway down is one of the scariest things at Jaws. That is I I agree. I it's so gnarly, and so when I'm getting like a normal size West Bowl wave, yeah, and like most of my barrels and stuff, I'm taking off where that crease is, so I don't have to go over it, I'm taking off right under it. Um just to like explain to people. But when it gets really big, you have to sit up past it. There's another boil out there kind of where Twiggy caught his wave. And you have to find a wave that you can get over that crease without like airdropping into oblivion. I've seen Kona Oliveira hit it and just land, dislocate its shoulder. I've seen Kylanny get absolutely smoked over it. Um, it is it is one of the most dangerous parts of Jaws is trying to get over that crease on a gnarly one. And Twiggy did that airdrop he did to get over that crease, like, was so gnarly. And then to bottom turn and get into the barrel was crazy. So I don't want to like, I felt like I belittled it just because I got so frustrated. Because I think there's so many good waves out there that have been made to focus on one that wasn't made and call it like the best wave ever, because a lot of people have called that the best wave ever at Jaws, and I'm like, what are we talking about? It was yeah, it was the best one of the best drops ever at Jaws, but that is you know 30% of the wave or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um I totally understand your logic, man, because like it's the same with airs, right? You don't get airs for not riding out. If you if you pull into a barrel in a contest, you don't get you know it doesn't count if you don't come out. So we kind of understand your logic.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's a weird one too, because I talked to a lot of snowboarders and and like skaters and stuff, and like snowboarding bigger or whatever, you put one hand down on your landing, it's you're not winning. Yeah, and so a lot of them wrote me after that event and was like, what's the deal with them throwing out these crazy scores for falls? And I was like, I have been preaching this, and my whole point afterwards was like, if they didn't reward falling, people would adjust and they'd surf a little smarter. It's so funny because I always think that the CT doesn't reward um like going forward enough and like charging and craziness as much, and I feel like the big wave tour when it was happening kind of rewarded it too much. Where they should have rewarded almost like more conservative surfing, just like being smart enough to make the wave is is a really skill that should be encouraged.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um so yeah, I I just think that and it was crazy. I was sitting right next to Shane, we watched it. The the thickness of the lip in the that first part was insane. Like it was as thick of a lip as it was crazy, and he got into it, but I think he think he should have made it.

SPEAKER_03

I have no idea, man. Like I've never pulled into a wave like that, but I could only imagine the amount of yeah, the amount of turbulence that would have been in that thing, it would have felt like a building slowly collapsing on you. I could only imagine.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but the thing was like go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01

You go. Well, the thing was, like, to call that wave every wave that someone went on that day was fucking gnarly. Like so freaking gnarly. Billy's wave was super gnarly. All the wipeouts in that heat were so gnarly. And um, but none of them made a wave. So the contest director comes over to us.

SPEAKER_03

And is that Peter Mel at the time?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. Or one of the people, I think it was actually not the contest director. I think it was Peter Mill at the time, but someone was like, hey, like, do you guys want to surf? Like, they want to call it off. And I was in. I was ready. I thought this was my year. It was so gnarly, I was scared, don't get me wrong. But I was I was looking at it and I could see. I saw this one wave in that heat. I wonder if I can find the footage of. That was still a wave I've never seen before out of Jaws, where it oh I can't even describe it. I can't even describe it. It was l- it was like a 60-footer that looked like Chopes, and there was an entry into it. You would have had to knife it from the takeoff, and it's still the thing I dream about, where it was like I the pinnacle of what you could do on a surfboard paddling. And I saw it, and I was just freaking out. I was like, I want to go out. And they were they were kind of hesitant on what we were doing, and I was freaking out. I was sitting with So all the best big wave riders in the world are right there. And I was sitting with like Shane and everyone for the next heat, and they were like indecision, indecision, and there was no one out. And I was just watching it, I was like, what the fuck are we doing? And so I ripped my jersey off before they even made a final decision. Like, through it, I was like, I'm gonna go prove it's possible. Like, fuck you guys.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so wait, they they they called the event on hold like they just were like, hey, we're on hold.

SPEAKER_01

They're on hold. And I was like, Yeah, and I was sitting there with my jersey on, and they were telling me not to paddle out, and I was like, fuck you. And I like called Ollie over because he came out with me. And I was like, Ollie, watch me. Like they're the contest is off, like they're not gonna watch me. And he's like, I got you. And I was like, fuck this, I'm going out. So funny, I paddle over and overly cocky by doing this, first of all. I was you know, younger back then and a little more dumb. And I paddle out just like like basically like fuck you guys, I'm gonna go show you what can be done out here. And I paddle over and just get somehow the current just sucks me right into the West Bowl, and I just get caught by a set, and I have to bail on like a 40-foot barrel, and I'm just like bailing in the corner. I get under it, I paddle, like have to bail on another one. I just almost like killed myself. I get to the channel, like Ollie comes and grabs me, and I like I didn't get pounded, but it was got my heart in my throat. I reassessed, I was like, okay, like, yeah, I want to go with proof what's possible, but like don't be a fucking idiot. You're not you're not invincible. Um but then I had Ollie tummy out to the back, and so everyone's there, and Nathan Florence and Lucas Chumbo are the only ones who paddled out with me. I sat out there for like 30 minutes by myself. They officially made the call to get it off. I I hadn't caught a wave yet. I was just It was one of those days, Brees. So they called the event off. Oh shit and no one wanted to paddle out. Lucas and Nathan paddle out and kind of sit by me. Um and it was it was as up there with as big as I've ever seen it. Um and we kind of like searched around and then I finally caught one, and I got that wave. I I'll send it to you, where I I took like a big drop, it's one of the bigger waves I had caught at the time, and then put my hands up and like got the corner froth barrel.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And it was one of the best waves of my life still to this day. Um kicked out, was so psyched, and I went back out and I was like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna try for the one.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And um, kick back out, we're searching around. Lucas tries to go on one wave, doesn't have a prayer of making it, gets absolutely annihilated. I'll send you the clip, it is looking wild. And then Nathan sees that and just he's just like, nope, and just paddles in. And so then I was sitting out there by myself again, and I sat out there for probably an hour by myself, and um finally, like a big one came that had somewhat of an entry, but there was a freaking jet ski. Probably like I Kylinny had started towing. I swear it was probably his ski, he's always always end up in this situation where there's a jet ski like running in the wave in front, and you like it is so scary to have a jet ski weight going up your wave when you're on a freaking 50-footer. Um but I got that wave where it was a very late drop. Probably the heavy one of the heaviest waves I've ever paddled still to this day, if not the heaviest. And um, it didn't have the crease like Twiggies, it had a mellower crease, and I was able to get over it, hit the jet ski wake, barely held on, and pulled up, and I it looked it absolutely looked like a closeout, but some of those back off, and I going on the wave, I was like, okay, this is I'm gonna get the best wave ever ridden, ever. It's gonna run for freaking 10 seconds into the channel. I'm gonna get spit out in front of all the best big wave surfers in the world who are just sitting there not surfing. This is the kind of thing I was telling myself. And I just bottom turn, and then there's just the section was just a little, it went a little too wide and it just like chandelier barreled. Oh and I I pulled into it and I just like you can see I already when I pull up, I look at the section and I just go like this, and I'm pulling in like this, ready to pull my finger.

SPEAKER_02

Just ready to go. You're like, oh it's a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

Because I was looking at it, I was like, it if that section had backed off a little, I still think it would have I would have had a shot at the best wave ever. But I was a little too deep and just again, I I yeah, I guess it got a little unlucky.

SPEAKER_03

I think I've seen the the clips um you sent them to me the other day, just of comparison. Were they the same day? The one of you paddling into that wave and the one of Grant paddling it.

SPEAKER_01

Is that the same way? So that was so Twiggy was heat one, I was heat two, they cancelled it after heat one, because none of those guys made a wave.

SPEAKER_03

Then you're like F this, I'm going out.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and then I went out, me, Lucas, Chimbo, and Nathan came out like behind me. Okay. Lucas tried one wave, ate shit, Nathan went in.

SPEAKER_03

We're gonna have to post those because like we gotta get the the people's opinion on.

SPEAKER_01

Well, no, okay, and I'm not saying my wave is as gnarly as well.

SPEAKER_03

I'm not saying, but when when you showed me, I was like, holy smokes.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just saying it wasn't that much different, was my point. And I was like, and yeah, the every like that was the thing I was like a little bummed on was Shane's compliments about it. Like, you know, he had almost no chance of making it when he took off, and I was like, I know. Like, I'd I went out and tried the same thing. And he, you know, he said he's like, out of all those guys I list, maybe one of them would have gone on that. I was like, I went out and I I tried, you know, and I and I just felt like that was yeah, I I don't know how to say this without sounding so cocky and like full of myself, but like every now and I like there were certain things where I just wished I yeah, I don't know. I I guess I wish to push back and stop it. No, I just I wished I stopped seeking other people's approval because I was really proud of going out when they canceled the Jaws event. No, you know, almost no other big wave surfers went out, and I was able to catch and successfully ride a wave that only one other person that day was able to successfully ride a wave and it wasn't a barrel. And then I almost I I tried on a proper big wave, and you know, I got pounded, but I was okay. I came in, and I was just I was really proud of myself, and I felt like it was one of those things where it was just like who who cares? Like Twiggy got the biggest wave ever paddled.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and uh I could understand that. I can understand that.

SPEAKER_01

And I yeah, and then even Kyle in the towed all day and he caught like the biggest wave of the year at the time. Like, I remember watching it while I was like I was sitting out in the lineup by myself watching Kai just go down on like a 70-something footer. Um and I remember even like Wired magazine, which is you know that huge magazine, like tech world, yeah, yeah. Uh did a whole article about how Kyle Lenny went and surfed after they called the contest off for being too big and stuff. And I remember just like seeing a lot of articles like that and just being like, what?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, that's I guess that's the the challenging part, right? Is like don't think you're getting credit for the the body of work that you've like put in. Cause I mean, yeah, this is not I never knew this story. Like, I think people just don't know. So it's like this outside opinion, but that no one knows what happened that day or what like you know, no one I didn't I didn't even know that you paddled out when it got called off and got that wave. When you sent me those waves, I was just like thought you were just comparing a wave. And I was like, I didn't know the story behind that, which is freaking insane. Because yeah, when you do compare them, you're like there actually isn't that much difference. I'd just say the takeoff of Twiggies was maybe a little bit hairier in a way, like you know, because you've got doubler the crease. But when you compare the whole wave, I mean you're yeah, it was it was right there. I was just like, No, I think Twiggy's Wave was gnarlier.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think Twiggy's Wave was gnarlier. But it was one of those things where like I listen to the whole conversation and I felt like.

SPEAKER_03

Gnarly to get into, gnarly to paddle into, but when you get to the bottom and then both the waves kind of look the exact same, when you get to the bottom of those, when you look at them both and you get to the bottom of the takeoff, and you guys both pull in, they kind of look pretty similar.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the only difference is mine ran like crazy too too much. I picked kind of it ran too far, where his other like it's so cropped in. Yeah, when I show you the whole clip, you'll see.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I wasn't that far off. About 10 feet, I think I could have gone through and got the best ride of all time.

SPEAKER_03

Um crazy. But it was just it it felt like that day there were so many almost the best wave ever.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And but I was really that was the thing when Ride of the Year came around. I I also I I recently watched that bounty hunters um um How Surfers Get Paid. I don't know if you've seen that. It's all about big waves and the big wave awards and all that. Check that out, that was cool. So that kind of re- that got my mind working as well to like, oh, I should just talk about this more from you know my personal experience because I think that that episode is really captivating for people and kind of cool stories. Um I agree.

SPEAKER_03

But yeah, and it's yeah. No, I was just gonna say, from my perspective, like I don't think people really understand how you live and breathe Jaws. I don't think people know that the the effort that you've put in, like for me, just going over and just being around you and like staying with you and stuff, you seem the most switched on. I I I don't know about Kai and that, they seem like they're pretty switched on. Um, Kai and Ridge, but like you seem the most ingrained in like the everything about Jaws. Which I don't think people really understand that. Like it takes so much out of your life to get to or do the stuff that you do, and there's so much sacrifice. No one really sees that, no one really sees the behind the scenes of like the preparation, the like you know, the lead up, the anticipation, the you know, the effort when you're actually doing it. I don't yeah. I don't think that's much like really appreciated or understood.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think yeah, that's one thing that that bothers me when people um I think people think I'm like lazy or something, and I I'm not.

SPEAKER_03

You are so far from that, man. I would say you're like you're obsessed. I would say you have a very healthy or unhealthy, depending on how you look at it, obsession with Jaws.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think so too. And I think it's a a big part of it is um Billy is a part of this too, but we used to camp down there and spearfish when we were little kids. Yeah. Um so that created a relationship before surfing was even really on our radar. And then the years of towing it with, you know, me, Billy, my friend Marlon and and Matt, so it's been like so long. But yeah, there's a handful of people that have that obsession out there, like Ian Balsh's one, Billy Kai, like we all have that obsession, and Shane did in his um when he was out there, and and he, you know, lots of other people, but it's it's um yeah, I'd be curious, the amount of pressure I put on myself every year to try and get and I don't want to say the best way because I don't like comparing myself to other people, like it's something I I do a ton and I wish I did less of. Like this whole thing, I'm I'm doing it, and I it's something I want to move away from. But the amount of pressure I put on myself to set the goals or to achieve the goals I've set for myself out there is super taxing. And it's it's kinda gnarly and it borders on unhealthy at times.

SPEAKER_02

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01

I think I a lot of those other people feel the same way too. It's it's it's not nothing to have that goal of trying to catch the heaviest weight. Wave ever caught. It's something. And it weighs on you in a way that I don't think many people like understand. It's just like, oh yeah, they just that's what they do. You know, they send it on this, and it's like every one of those waves that one of us catch where you make it out the channel, like I think the when you you know you make a crazy wave at Jaws, the most surprised person is probably us riding it. You know, when we come out the channel. I think everyone else kind of expects that. Like, oh, you expect someone to airdrop land and bottom turn into the barrel and get spit out. And but from the perspective of doing it, it's like, oh my gosh, I just held on by my big toe barely and scratched into that, and it was like it took everything. And yeah, that's just something I've always thought of out without there. That's cool, man.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I I yeah, man, being around you and seeing you like the mindset that you clicked into that one time with the big swell, I think was it 2024?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, two years ago.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one where that was like really cool just being around you and seeing how switched on you were and seeing how like in tune you were with everything and seeing how driven you were. I was like, this is how much I ignored you. Yeah, I ignored you the whole trip. Yeah, you just ignored me the whole trip. I didn't care. It was the the contrast to my other trips there were so different. You because you gave me the red carpet treatment. You kind of like you kind of screwed me up. Yeah, let's go into that. You screwed me up, dude. Because on my first trip, you gave me red carpet treatment. I was just like, oh no ski, like going out, borrow your board, borrow your good board. I'm like, oh my god, Albi is like the best, he's got my back. Second, third trip, you're just like, Oh, you're here? Good luck.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. It's like a drug, it's like a dealer, man. You just get him the best stuff first thing. Yeah, yeah. Get you hooked, and then you're just like, oh, you're hooked. I don't need to do anything anymore.

SPEAKER_03

You had that breaking, you had the breaking bad freaking Walter White blue stuff, dude. That's what you gave me. And then I'm like, oh, okay, this is how it's gonna be. Yeah, I can get into this, and then yeah, the second I I think I saw you for like, I don't know, couple hours the whole time. Yeah, yeah. But it was cool for me. It was a really good learning experience for me because it you talk about stepping outside your comfort zone earlier. I was like, that was so out of my comfort zone. It was just kind of like, hey, get a car, drive down the you know, get your inflation ready, go down, paddle out, and I'm like, I when I was walking down the the freaking cliff, I'm like, like the Tory Russell, I'm like, are you serious? Like, I am so out of my element right here. Yeah, but it was the coolest thing in the world.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because that's gonna be something you never ever forget. Because that the last day, too, that you surfed, because you left before the Eddie day. But the day before was pretty damn close. It was a different type of swell, it was different period, it was a lot messier, but it was one of the heaviest days I've ever seen out there. And you got to like because the first time you came over, it was it was heavy, but that last day you were there was really heavy. What was like what was that experience compared to the first time? Just seeing that.

SPEAKER_03

Just extremely confronting. Like uh with um knowing I'm good enough to ride the waves, but like having the mental fortitude of like being like, okay, I'm gonna do it. You know, like it's one thing to go out there, but it's another to catch a wave, and like it is so daunting. Like, I think the only people that know how it feels are the people who've done it. Like going out there uh, you know, and paddling into a wave is quite quite possibly one of like the most scariest things. I I but it was like you said, it's something that I I remember, I remember I don't really remember my wave. Like I've caught a few waves out there now to understand it. Um nothing nothing insane, but insane for me. But um, like you said, man, I I like all the little things around it are what I like cherish. I'm like, yeah, the driving down in the Jeep, you know, like the craziest road where I'm like doing the gnarliest four-wheel driving I've ever done in my life. And you're like, everyone just plays it down so much. They're like, Yeah, you just get the car, drive down. Like, I'm cool. I'm like almost upside down in this Jeep, like I'm like this, like going down.

SPEAKER_01

Like, holy shit, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_03

And I get to it and I'm like trying to find parks, and like it's so scary. Everyone's like, people are there like watching and they're like looking at you, like, is this guy gonna go out? You know, like and I'm waxing up my board and I'm just like feeling so like I have fish out of water, really. Um, which is so funny because it's something I've done my whole life surfing, it's just on a way bigger scale. But then yeah, like walking around because I had a new flotation device, I didn't know how the like I was trying to I was trying to test it before it came, but like I I couldn't get any of the um air canisters in Kauai, and you're not allowed to travel with them. So I'm like, geez, there's not there's none in Kawaii, and I'm like, okay, I wanted to try it before I left, and then I got over there and I just felt like I was just thrown into the deep water and I loved it. I loved everything about it.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing. Yeah, I mean I must have been so nuts paddling out that day, too. Like I missed that a lot.

SPEAKER_03

The paddle out is confronting, but more so the getting in is super scary. That's like because it's so easy to mess up. And um, thank God Ollie was there, like just one of the you know, he literally he's the best driver. Yeah, he just and just put me in in the perfect spot and just I just I the first time I did it, I just was like, this is insane. Like I just got up and like escaped, I'm watching like five people paddle in just like trying not to die. But then the next few times I paddled in, like I was just like, I got I yeah, I got smoked trying to get in. Yeah, smash my board, smash my ankle, cut my foot, yeah. Just living and breathing day of life. Yeah, I got I got yeah, I got the whole experience, dude.

SPEAKER_01

I wanna um I mean we're gonna running long, but I want to ask you one thing that Shane mentioned that I wanted the another thing I wanted to double click on, but didn't get a chance to. Um because he was talking about how hard it was just kind of the battle between dedicating yourself to big waves and knowing you have a family that depends on you. And is that is that something that plays into your played into your head when you decided to come over and surf it with me?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I know it played in your head, but like Oh man, I think about it, but yeah, yeah, like it definitely did. Um I can I I'd be lying if I said it didn't. But I think about it on like every with everything. Like I think about oh there is a there's there is a chance that something bad might happen, you know, like um I feel grateful knowing that like I've you know I've raised two really good kids to like I I don't know, this is going deep, but um That's what I want to do. Yeah No, I'm okay, like if I was to like yeah, if I was to pass away, I've A I've lived a fucking sick life, and then B, I know that they'd be heavily taken care of by Alana and everyone around him. So like and I'm not to say that like yeah, I'm going out there to try and kill myself, but um Yeah, I think with anything somewhat dangerous, there is always the possibility of something going extremely or horribly wrong. 99.9% of the time that that's never the case, but like I understand that that's you know, you could do it with anything, crossing the road, hiking Everest, you know, there's I whatever it is, two complete different opposite things. But you could literally do that with everything. You could sit down and analyze and be like, oh, I could die from this, I could die from this, I could die from that. But I don't I don't live in that fear. Like I didn't really think about it too much when I came and surfed with you, if that makes sense. Because I did feel I did feel really safe. I did feel really safe. So that wasn't really always playing in my mind.

SPEAKER_01

That's that's awesome. I think that's the perfect way to say it. Well, it's it's um so I I asked during that run of swell, I asked, I don't know if I said this yet, but I was talking to my buddy Cam Zink, who I mentioned, who's the the big way or big mountain mountain biker who does like we gotta interview because he is he's pushed himself as gnarly of a sports athlete that exists in this world. So I I reached out to him. We're going to. I I was talking to him. Um so I reached out to him during that run as well, and I told him like I was like, oh, the it looks like the biggest day I've ever seen. There's gonna be no win, everyone's gonna be at the eddy. And I kind of I was like kind of asking him for advice because I was like, Yeah, you don't know surfing, like there's no one who could give me there's not many people who give me advice on how to surf this because I don't think it's ever been done, but I was like, I wonder what you would say. You know, because he does like Red Bull Rampage and he's done some of the biggest things that have ever happened.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And he had this quote, which is kind of what like kind of the mindset you had where it's he said you need to accept the consequences of what could happen so that your mind is free to focus on what is happening.

SPEAKER_03

That's insane code. Yeah. That's kind of what you know, I feel.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like is you accept like, okay, here's you know, the rough odds of something horrible happening, and like, am I okay with that? What does that mean to me? And then you just accept, like, that is a possibility. Like, doesn't matter what I change at this point, that is always on the table. I could lose my life, I could end up horribly injured, and that's possible. And then once you accept that as a reality, and I did, I I really focused on that the next day. I was like, that's a reality, that could happen. And you're like, okay, I've already processed that. Like out of my brain. Like out of your head, that's already gone, and now my mind is completely open to focus on what is happening. I have I'd already thought about that, that's already checked off the list, and I'm curious to hear if Cam would if that's how he intended it. This is how I took it. Um but it's just like that's checked off the list. I've already processed all that, and now I can just it's all what is happening. Yeah. And so yeah, I think that's that's kind of how you said it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, in a roundabout way, I just share the same perspective.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, yeah. I think that was good chat.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, that was awesome. Uh yeah, is there anything else you wanted to talk about?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, yeah, I don't want to sound too like I'm I'm angry at Shane or anything. There's just things I when I listened back, I was like, I need to, you know, stand my ground a little more. Even though Shane's my hero and and stuff. It's not like he's like calling me out or anything, but just like I want to press things a little more moving forward with this these conversations, and I felt like I did a really bad job of doing it that time.

SPEAKER_03

And so I want to set myself up to Yeah, I think you might be a little bit overly harsh on yourself because I actually enjoyed the conversation and I loved it. I did too. I'm not I'm not saying I didn't. I can understand. I I um I feel yeah. I understand that you want to like just understand a little bit more. Yeah, and just you're curious, yeah, put from it, yeah, trying to understand the perspective.

SPEAKER_01

I also just think a lot of people just when it's someone as as iconic as Shane, and you know, no one wants to you're not gonna just blatantly disagree with him. It's scary, because he's he's the man, you know, like he is he's he's as respected of a surfer that exists today, wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. That's that's kind of the only thing I was bummed. I wish I pressed him on who was because I think there's always you even talked about it, there's this battle of like who's the guy. And I wish I got out of him because of anyone to pass the torch, he's the guy who's gonna do it. Now I wish I kind of pushed him on like okay, you've got your top five, but the top three, that's pretty murky. Who is your one? Who is your two? Who is your cause that in that way it would kind of settle it, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01

Um well that's the thing is he wouldn't say me because he when Stab did that article.

SPEAKER_03

But he didn't say Kai, he didn't say Kai or Billy either. He said you guys are Yeah he did.

SPEAKER_01

No, but when Stab did the article. No, when Stab did the article and asked him, he said Billy is the best and Kai was the best researcher. Okay. And he didn't say my name. And that's when he didn't even chip on my own. Oh, okay. Well that's a whole different thing. So that's why I have a chip on my shoulder about this.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, okay. Is this for just Jaws or is he talking about just in general? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Just Jaws.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01

And no, they interviewed like ten people and not one person said my name.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. Do you want to I it probably doesn't it, you know, it doesn't carry much weight, but do you want to hear my top five?

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, Jack. Okay. Give us a granita, man.

SPEAKER_03

Big wave. Big wave, Dave, top five, Jewel's edition. Uh, Jack's top five. You at the one, I have Kai at the two, Billy at three, Shane at four. I think Shane will always be in the top five no matter who gets changed. Um, and Ian Walsh.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I I back that. So I would say too, like, when we were talking and I was talking about my top five, I wasn't including Shane because we were talking like present day, which was weird because Twiggy and that like haven't done it as much lately. But Shane's Shane's the So how I always describe it is like, even if we're doing things better today, Shane moved the progression more than any other surfer has out there by kind of a long shot.

SPEAKER_03

That's what I mean. That's why he'll always be in my top five.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so even if we start catching crazier waves than we ever did during that era, which I don't think is gonna happen that quick, Shane moved the progression from point A to point B further than anyone else.

SPEAKER_03

And yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01

And still his best waves are in the top ten, if not five, best waves ever written out there. Probably maybe even the top three or four. Um That's why that's why I consider him the godfather of it.

SPEAKER_03

You know, like he's the guy who I Yeah, yeah, he is, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01

And that's that's that's if if I do get sensitive, that's why. I greatly value his opinion. Yeah. And as far as like the other guys, like Kai can do anything out there on any type of board and is pretty amazing. I wish he put more effort into paddling. The coolest thing I've ever seen Kai do was the day that was kind of small and perfect, and he paddled on a 7-6 and fucking ripped. I thought that was one of the coolest things I've seen from Kai.

SPEAKER_03

He's probably he's probably the best waterman like in the world. He can do I mean you give him a door with some fins and he'll he'll ride it.

SPEAKER_01

Um I do wish he put more effort into paddling, uh, personally.

SPEAKER_03

It's to me personally, I think it's really close between you and Kai. Um I would say Billy, hands down the best competitor out of all three of you guys. There's nothing even close. Nothing even close. There's nothing even close to Billy competing out there. I think your guys' body of work kind of outweighs his a lot. Um and you guys just Billy. He's he's pretty no, he's pretty insane. Like, don't get me like he's done insane things.

SPEAKER_01

He's definitely the best, but like uh if you just do paddling, I think he's above Kai. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean Kai's best work out there was yeah, a few years ago, he had a year where he's.

SPEAKER_03

He's nuts.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he paddles a ton. Don't get me wrong, he serves out there as much as anyone. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But you guys, I think the th the reason you kind of stand a little bit um uh just above Billy is because of how much you live and breathe it. Like you guys are right there on every swirl, every time, doing everything.

SPEAKER_01

So Billy has become a little more selective of when he comes over, but when he does, he almost always gets either the wave of the day or close to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um yeah, again, it'll it uh any uh like ask anyone and you I think you get three different answers. Oh, you're getting a ton of different answers. Like it's always changing. One, two, and three.

SPEAKER_01

I never got there.

SPEAKER_03

Um just from what I've seen personally witnessed and everything around, that's why I put you at the one.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, I'm not gonna put it. Okay, where do I stand in your top five, dude? Let's say no, just kidding.

SPEAKER_01

Well, no, let's say for first timers, wait, let's look.

SPEAKER_03

No, I'm top, I'm top, I'm I gotta be top 80.

SPEAKER_01

You're definitely top 80. I'd go top 50 nowadays. No, I'd 100% top 50. I don't know. As far as first timers go, I'd put you probably top 20 first timers I've seen. Dude, people don't they don't just show up and score out there. Um a handful of people have, but they don't repeat and sometimes they don't even come back at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um so that's probably part of the reason I'm sitting in this chair just like buckle. Just like the backsmaster. The wipeout I had on my second wave out there was something. Yeah. The first day you can remember it. Yeah. I went one, like you got the first one. We put that in the first episode. You put that, yeah. You you got the that crazy one, and you're like, top. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen with my eyes. You're like, that's the top three best waves of my life. It was so insane because that's the first wave I saw at Jaw's.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was still dark.

SPEAKER_03

It was crazy. And then I'm like, oh, we just got one. I'm I want to, I got I need to like get over the jitters. I swung on it, like it it felt crazy to me, but when I watched it, I was like, oh like it was whatever. And then the second one, I was just like, I just need to get because I sit you sit out there for like four or five hours at a time. Yeah. So from wave one to wave two was like two and a half hours. And I was like, I just need to like get something. I'm getting so in, and I just ate absolute shit.

SPEAKER_01

You did pretty good to make it as far as you did. I was just glad my board didn't break.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_01

I was really fishing for that compliment. I I dude, I'm telling you, it was impressive for a first session and to come back and pull in on your second session, even though it's smaller.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, even though I pulled into like a six-footer at Jaws. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So good.

SPEAKER_01

But anyway. Okay, so let's let's talk about our future with the podcasting. Yeah. Um, before we sign off, because it's been it's good, good, good time right now.

SPEAKER_03

Good chunk of change. Yeah, man. We've got some uh we've got some really good guests in the work, which is uh I'm very excited about.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I I again I want to do more uh definitely girls, because we don't want to be a bro podcast, and and we've talked about Jaws a lot. That was just because I wanted to follow up on Shane. We always I think it's cool though. It's it's a I'm I I will never get sick of talking about Jaws, and it's it's one of the things that bonded us is the current our current friendship. So it's part of the reason we we can talk the way we do, if you like. We're ingrained. Cohesive. But I do want to get what's okay. Let's throw out three dream guests before we go. Just to put it in the put it in the stratosphere.

SPEAKER_03

Well, uh Carissa, I mean I can't wait for that. I cannot wait for that. That's gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01

Especially the timing with what she's doing right now. I'm so excited to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03

And her journey over the last few years has just been like I'm so excited because obviously Alana and I have kids and I've seen how hard it is to navigate, and then she's coming back. Yeah, two winning. Yeah, two in a row. That's wild. But challenging for a world title, like that's insane. Um, okay, so yeah, Carissa, um Felipe in the works, that's pretty cool. I love Felipe in the world. That'll be exciting. I don't I don't know if I've ever had a real conversation with him. Really? I love him to death. He's like probably out of all the people when I was on two, I he was the one I I don't know. I just always gravitated towards him and his family because I think they're just such beautiful people. Nice.

SPEAKER_01

We should invite him to Jaws.

SPEAKER_03

That would be sick. Oh my goodness. Imagine if he just did it to put all the haters to bed, dude. He but he would. That's the thing. I think he would. Like a he's yeah, I think he would have a crack. I think he would for sure have a crack. Um, but I don't know that well. But go on. Yeah. He'd be scared, but he'd have a crack. Um and then third, I don't know. Have you got any anyone that like we got page uh we want to get page arms on, that'd be sick.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. There, yeah, there's a bunch of those. I think it'd be fun to follow up with Shane again um at some point in the studio. Um because yeah, Shane is he's a great freaking, he's a great talker too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I I can't wait to do yeah, end of the year, hopefully get back in the studio, have the production set up a little bit better, and and really punch out some cool episodes while everyone's in town. I think that'll be sick.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Alana's gonna be super fun. Um we should get Matt on here too, just cause you know, my girl, sexual life mate. Yeah, we gotta get your life partner on here too.

SPEAKER_03

We can do a partner podcast. I can get Alana and you can get your beloved man.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, dude, I loved the um, I don't know if this will come out before or after Luke Swanson, but that was a great conversation. Luke Swanson was awesome, man. He is I think we should put this one before, so that'll be our next guest.

SPEAKER_03

He's a very switched-on individual, man.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's cool. Um, so yeah, I I want to talk to more um young kids too, just to get a lay of the land of what pro surfing looks like today. I want to talk to a lot of people outside of surfing. I want to talk to Cam Zink and my buddy Kip Moore, just to have like, you know, people who love surfing, but like aren't their profession is totally different, and I love relating things between each other.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um and yeah, excited for Carissa and it'd be cool to get a badass um athlete uh like one of the one of the badass snowboarder girls. I want to get one of them on. You know, Tess Cody, she's an awesome, I think she's Oz. Or she's Oz or New Zealand.

SPEAKER_03

I I don't really know snowboarding at all.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay. That'd be a fun one. Try to get someone like that. Yeah, I'm I'm super open to it. Because I really want to um I'm curious of not just the approach of tricks and like the progression of other sports, but just like the industry and stuff, so I wanna I wanna go into that.

SPEAKER_03

Sounds good, man. Alright, let's uh let's sign off with that, dude. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01

Alright, miss you Jack.

SPEAKER_03

Miss you too, bro.