Episode 5 - Declan Meenan, Co-Founder and Director, Ogma Safety

Safety is one of the most critical yet often overlooked aspects of delivering successful events. In this episode, Michael MacLennan is joined by Declan Meenan, Co-Founder and Director of OGMA Safety, to discuss risk management, crowd safety, operational planning and the systems that help major events run safely and efficiently. A practical conversation for event professionals responsible for creating secure, resilient and world-class experiences.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Welcome back to the backdrop. Our guests this week will be discussing one of the most critical yet oftenly spoken about aspects of the events industry: HSC, health, safety, environment, and crowd management, along with that complex operational planning that underpins every successful live event. Joining us this week is Declan Meenan. Declan is director at Augma Safety. Declan has over 22 years of experience across both the public and private sectors, including as a former police officer. Declan has spent the past eight years in the UAE helping deliver some of the region's biggest events, including Expo 2020, Formula One after-race concerts, major shows in Etahad Park, cold play in Abu Ghabi and Saudiat nights. So with that, I'd like to welcome to the backdrop, Declan Meeting. Declan, I'm really glad that you joined us because what we're discussing today is something that is probably the most important, most critical element of the planning in any event, whether it's a festival or a concert or an exhibition or a conference. What I wanted to ask you is when you arrive on a site and you are, you know, you're having a look around at whether it's an exhibition center or a hotel or uh, you know, uh an open-air festival uh venue. When you're looking around, what are you seeing that says, you know what, on paper this was good, but now I'm a little bit uh I'm a little bit unsure. I want to make sure that things are genuinely under control. How do you see that? What do you see that we don't see?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Um, firstly, thanks for bringing us on the podcast. It's a great idea and happy to be here. But um, you know, it's a great question. Like people come to events, uh, they buy their ticket, they get their invites for conferences, but they actually don't see what goes on in the background, and safety is an extremely important part of that. Before I go on a site, I have a fair idea, even without being on the site, if this site is going to be safe or not safe. Um or a challenge, if you want to call it that. It's if we're involved in the planning stages from an early stage rather than being brought in last minute and chasing their tails. Um when the documents are submitted from suppliers and we're reviewing the documents. If we get time with the planning, if we're sitting with the client or the agency from day one, um, going through the planning, sitting, we should be there when they're doing the drawings, when they're doing the concept, all this, so we can give our input into the safety and crowd management side of things. Um but then when you do go on a site and the paperwork looks fine, there is some red flags that you might see. If you get a supplier who's not keeping to the schedule, they go on a site, they're due in on a Monday, but they arrive on a Sunday night when we're not expecting them. So there's other workers working around, we haven't segregated an area for them. Another red flag would be if you arrive on a site and you have a set time for induction, but but you look and someone's unloading a truck without attending the the site induction, it'd be another one. Um but in general, like most clients that we work for, the majority of clients we work for, to be fair, sites are safe. We know what we're going into. We work with the same suppliers, contractors, on a lot of events, so we know how they work, how they operate. They know us and they know our expect expectations. Um but it's again on the live days, like during the build, uh the site might come across safe and well, and but when you go into the live days, the main concern is if you approach a member of staff or a freelance agency member staff like host this as F and B staff, and you'd ask them in a case of an emergency, do you know your roles and responsibilities? Do you know where you're going? And they look at you with a blank trace. You know that the information that you have disseminated out to their supervisor and to their company hasn't filtered down, and they've just ticked the box to say that they've shared it. Yeah. So that would be my main concerns, really.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Before you even darken the door and come in, you've got everything sort of mapped out because you're looking at the technical plans, you're speaking to probably working alongside not just the operational logistical people, kind of tethered to their waist, but also you you've got to take into consideration that the the people working with you are staying on your schedule as well. And you're staying on their schedule and you're you're working together with a with a tight plan because someone's getting to the loading trucks and you guys haven't arrived yet, that causes a bit of a problem.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

And and fines can be incurred and problems can more severe problems can happen.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah, like as I say in the perfect word, I know, and I know budgets don't always allow for it, is safety is brought in at the concept stage. Like we've worked on some major concerts, which went off extremely well because we were brought in months in advance where the planning was done, where we did our tabletop scenarios, where we met with police, met with civil defense, and this is all before going on site, the plans are ready and the plans were tested through the tabletops. But when you're brought onto a site uh last minute, you just know that there's a chance that not literally, but you will be putting out fires on site, trying to keep it safe to the best of your ability.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

But when you started this company, um you have so you had a natural path to this. You I mean, you started this with partners. You had um uh I guess you kind of did your own sort of market analysis and in a way to find out not only am I uh a perfect or a natural um you know expert within the HSC side of things because you were in the past a police officer. You were guard uh in where where is this?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Um I was first based in Bray, just outside Dublin. Then I was sent to the border to Donegal for the majority of my service.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Okay. Yeah, so you so security is in your DNA. Yeah, security, safety, like yeah, safety is in your DNA and keeping people safe and crowd management is your DNA.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Exactly. Yeah, I've been brought into events since I was 16 years old. Yeah. My dad used to be the head of security for Derry City Football Club.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

And myself and my brother were just parents.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Hell's hands full then.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah. We were brought in at that age and got a bit of experience. We were one of the first people trained in the north of Ireland in event events, Jurton. And the funny thing about it is he was ahead of security back then. Now Ogma is ahead of the match day operations now, and he is an FAA delegate where he marks our homework. Oh my gosh. So it's done full circle.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. When when you when you started the company, when you started Ogma, did you see that there was a need in the region that you needed? I mean, specifically, you know what? The UAE is where we're gonna call home. This is gonna be our our headquarters, it's gonna be our base. Um, because of the frequency and the level of of events that you felt really needed, a much more robust offering of uh in the market.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Um to sort of complement the existing ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, don't get me wrong, there's some great uh safety companies, crowd management companies already based in the region, but then again, at the same time, the region is constantly expanding, trying to hit the next level. We had Expo in Dubai, COP28, major concerts, major sporting events. We're gonna have the World Cup coming up in Saudi at the World Cup in Qatar. So we know that the region is expanding. We've been in the region four years. Um, we just haven't really showcased ourselves. After seeing what we can bring to the table, we just thought now is the right time to like get in and make a mark. I don't know how other companies work, but I know what our team is like. We all come from different backgrounds. I come from the police, we have people ex-government advisors, we've got ex-construction safety, ex-food safety, we've got teachers, and we're a young team. I think that's like the best thing that I can say about it is that we're young, we're willing to listen to each other, learn from each other.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

But you're also prone because you're young, you're prone to take on forward-thinking ideas. Yeah, well, where a lot of people have, you know, they're they're old school and been veterans in the industry, and they just don't, they're quite rigid, you know? Yeah. But you're nimble, you're flexible, you understand what needs to be done and what needs to be taken on in terms of new ideas.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

And yeah, exactly. And one of the most red flags to me is when I hear is we're doing it this way because it's always been done that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like people aren't susceptible to change. Yeah. So why not listen to what people have to say? Like we meet every week. Yeah. Um, we let the rest of the staff come up with ideas, run with ideas, yeah, and we give everyone a chance.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

It's probably the opposite here in the UAE because it changes and and it, you know, the the face of events changes so much to be as progressive as possible that we're the ones trying to catch up sometimes, you know, on on the uh because of the expectation um uh that that's uh uh you know is is really taking place here with with not just the government, all the technology and innovation involved and things that are really, really um, that they're really sort of pressuring to put in the forefront of of uh of the events here. So they're not just you know the old-fashioned ones that still place in a lot of other countries that you know they really expect a lot more here.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yeah, 100%. And the thing about us setting up in the market as well is like we've got our core team of full-time staff based in the Middle East, and we've got staff based in Europe, but we can upscale at any time based on the event. The majority of the time we will not have to do a recruitment drive that you see on LinkedIn and things like that. Like, I'll give you an example. I know it's not the region, but last month we got a phone call for 25 staff to go on an international event in August. We had those 25 staff confirmed within 15 minutes. Yeah. Flights booked, hotels booked without doing a recruitment drive because we have our trusted team, and that team is loyal to us. Yeah, and we invest in the team and they they support us and come around.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

But that's how you I I I think that's certainly how you keep clients, and that's how you grow is that if you can mobilize within a minute's notice, that's a massive value add.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yeah, 100%. And everybody working on our team all has great relationships with the clients. Yeah. Like we have never lost a client, which I'm extremely proud of. And we always get phone calls, requests back for certain members of staff. Yeah. And if that member of staff's available, then why not keep the client happy? Never lost the client. That's yeah, that's a dream. You maybe maybe we have, but I I don't know about on they haven't told you yet.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah, yeah. No, I think I think you're safe. So so some of those clients and some of the some of the big events. Can you give us a sort of an uh uh indication of you know some of the events that you've worked on that from from maybe the smallest to the largest, or what were the most challenging events maybe happened in the UAE or or or anywhere in the world, really?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah, from a personal point of view, the most challenging event or series of events, if you want to call it that, was during the time of COVID. Yeah, the entire world shut down. Um, the event industry stopped, the sporting world stopped, everything literally stopped. But when everyone was in lockdown in their homes, there was a team of us in lockdown in Abu Dhabi on Yas Island for UFC Fight Island, having the lockdown on an entire island, people living on the island, regular testing every day, and then delivering the UFC for five weeks and prove that this could be done. And I don't think it's any coincidence then that the UEE was one of the first regions or countries to open up. Every event has different challenges. Yeah, will there be a concert for 40,000, 50,000 people? Will there be a conference for 100 people? Will there be a brand lunch for 50 people? Like every event has has it definitely has its own challenges and so different, different challenges, unique challenges. Yeah, you want to eventually. Yeah, yeah. And some of the smaller events are probably the most challenging. Yeah. Um, yeah, maybe because there hasn't been enough time invested into the actual like safety element of it. But this is when we're brought on sort of last minute. Because there's an assumption that it's not required. Yeah, it's a small event, and then it's only we could be just brought in as a tick-the-box. Yeah. Because the venue has requested it.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Obviously, your team has worked on Expo, which is massive. You know, we you talk about health, you know, health and safety, and you guys are sort of governing over that um uh that planning and the methodologies and processes to ensure that the people coming are are safe and the crowd is managed well and everything goes smoothly. But what about the people working behind the scenes? What about the people, the event directors and the logistics people, the operations people, technical, technical production people, the people that are working almost around the clock normally uh in any event, and anyone that's worked in events anywhere will tell you that you know, you're up at two o'clock in the morning because of this, or you're you're getting, you know, maybe three hours sleep and that sort of thing. Before we started recording, you know, we we had a bit of a chat, and you were mentioning how impressed you were by some of the parameters in place that were put in place by Expo and the Expo team, the organizing team, uh, to ensure the the sort of mental faculties and and uh and well-being of of the people working there.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

I'm in the region now eight years, and when I arrived, it was almost worn as a badge of honor if you turned around on site and said, I've been awake for the last 24 hours, sometimes even longer, I've heard. I think 38 hours was what I heard um when I was doing the job in Saudi. But it was a badge of honor, and people were tired. People felt guilty if they left because they were tired because they didn't know what people would have been saying about them. Were they going to lose a job because you didn't work 16 hours today, you only worked 10 or 12 hours? Yeah. I've heard people being called half day as a joke as they walk away after a 12-hour shift. Um, but yeah, I think Expo changed that, and a big shout out to the welfare team at Expo, um, where they had the working time agreement in place. The people in the region then understood that you can deliver a successful event without being on site for 16-20 hours. Um, you don't need to burn out. Um like I still see it happening on some sites, uh they're few and far between at the moment, but like the big my biggest concern when I see it happening is you could have a long live day. You could be on site for canine sweeps in the morning, setting up, then you have the show, and then you have to wait for the crowd to leave, and when you have a look around, the same people who were there that morning are the ones now who are starting the D-rig. Yeah. And the D-rig, as we all know, was the most dangerous time. People want out and they want out quick and they want to get home.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

So, Declan, on that, when you talk about you know protecting people in terms of you know the fatigue and and all of that, of course, you always have to adopt new ways of doing things. And now, with the recent pause that we've had in the early early 2026, groups like Agma are ready to take on adapting new technologies and new ways of doing things. Like I, you know, could it be AI or or a you know other other technologies that you feel could enhance or benefit the way that you work, the way that you crowd manage, the way that you plan. Um, but also do you find there's been changes in in the policies um that you have to now adhere to, new regulations that that could change from time to time through either the UAE or other governments international?

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Um I'll start with the policies. Like I know there's this new legislation coming into Dubai, I think, on the 1st of June, the new public safety law. But there is nothing in that that we aren't already doing. Like when we write our risk assessments, when we collaborate with our partners in the security side of things on events, these things are already taken into consideration. Um when we do tabletop exercises, all these things are planned for already. We have crisis management plans in place. So none of this stuff coming is new to us. It might be new to some venues who'd never thought that they would have needed these things before in the past.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

But again, like I welcome a coming in.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

But you have to be on, you have to be really, really like on point when it comes to new policies, where someone that is in another part of that event planning may not know um about you know what's happening with new events with what you're saying with safety policies, things like this. You probably should know, but when it comes to the HSE groups like Alma, you guys really need to be reading the front pages of every HSE magazine or or uh website to know what's going on anywhere because you have to align with or adapt to that.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah, and again, uh coming from an ex-police background, we're spent months and months training, reading legislation, learning the legislation. Every time a legislation was updated, learning it. It just comes naturally to us as well. Like to look at these things, there's nothing that I have seen and that we aren't already doing. Um it's just aligning the UE with the rest of the world. I have worked in um venues where we've gone in and we've asked for their emergency management plans, and they don't exist, but now they have to exist, which is better for everyone if everyone's on the same boat, as you called. In terms of technology, AI and technology will never replace the human factor. It's it's a tool, it's a useful tool if it's used correctly. But if it's not used correctly, it's also highly damaging. Like I've asked suppliers sometimes for their documentation, and as we all know, there's giveaway signs when you read a document that this has been generated by AI. Now, if something happens on site and that document the risk assessment is brought up before a court, yeah, who is gonna stand over and say GPT or claw exactly who's gonna stand over this to say I've written this? Yeah. But again, it's a tool that if used correctly, it's highly beneficial. In terms of crowd management and things like that, we have a crowd modeling tool, which we've actually only used it once in the UE. It was on a major festival last year in Dubai, where again it's only as good as what information you input into it. Yeah. That's why it's a tool. Exactly. We took the measurements the measurements of a road. We had 10,000 people were planned to walk up this road with cross flows coming against. Yeah. And when we were able to show the client how this would look, yeah, the idea was scrapped. Yeah. So things like that. I know there's great um software out there. There's drones now, there's cameras now that can heat map on sites and show crowds movement and stuff like that. But it definitely we're welcome to learn any type of new technology that comes in. We're willing to work with all these new technologies. We have to prevent it first. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Make sure it's a tool. The saw is not going to cut the wood by itself, right? I mean, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

It'll help you. Yeah, it'll help us, but it's never going to replace something happens on sites. AI isn't going to be the decision maker. No, no, of course. It still comes down to keeping the cool head, yeah. Having experience and the confidence to make those difficult decisions. Whether that be stop a show, yeah, evacuate a venue.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

AI, for now at least, and maybe in 10 years. Years to laugh at this episode. But in but for now, I think that it's going to be very difficult to say to accurately identify someone as being in distress or or a danger or a concern to the rest of the public. So it really does require that team to be together and and sort of identify and analyze.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah, it's always going to come back to human human nature. The correct people on site with the experience, with the cool heads, and those who are going to make the difficult decisions.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

But there's got to be some really good technology out there. Oh, yeah, that are really surprises me. Not flawless, but that work really well with with governance by a by a team.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. When you see these the drones being used for crowd circulation, heat maps, yeah. Things like this. Cameras now that can count the amount of people who enter and exit. Venues which can give you your flow rate of people per minute. Yeah. Um that's all that we know of at the moment. Like what's out there? As I say, this is stuff that is being used now. There's constantly new stuff coming out. Yeah. Um, I seen one like I don't know, I'm not shouting out for this company, but I seen such a simple. I I I think I think it was Crowdflare, but such a simple like piece of technology was you download this app onto your phone if you're at a concert, and there's different colours on the app. So like if you need water, you hit blue and you hold your phone up so the cameras or whoever's working in the pit level, it's amazing, can know that this person needs water. If they're getting crushed, they hit uh don't get me uh homity to these colours, but I think if it's getting crushed, they hit red. So this is a new thing now that's been rolled out and it's free to download.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

It's really great for for concerts like these, you know, Taylor Swift that we have like young people, you know, this cut edge where there's young people, and then you know, they could uh they're they're more susceptible and and probably not as tuned into dangers as someone that's you know 40 years old. Yeah, like it's like simple is technology like that is effective. There's so many, there's so many stories like I mean, there's so many great tools out there now, and uh really born out of a need. That's great. And I really hope that we we see a lot more of this. But we want to ask you as a final question, yeah. What's going on with Achman now? What's some what kind of projects do you anything you can talk about that you have on on the horizon?

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Well, as we all know, we slowed down a bit here, but we haven't just rested on our laurels. We are actually on site at the minute in an event which I can't talk about, unfortunately. Um but yeah, because we operate both in the Middle East and in Europe, we have staff from the Middle East flying to France soon. Yeah. Um we have festivals going on in the UK, Ireland. Again, we have a major international event which we're providing 25 staff for come August. But we've also got a lot of events in the pipeline here in Abu Dhabi in Dubai for July and August. So it's not slowing down, but then everything that we were scheduled to be on from February right through the to the start of June has not has not been cancelled. It's just been literally pushed back to Q4. So we know when October comes, it's all hands to wheels in. Amazing. But you know, things are looking bright, and as I say, like when companies have been downscaling through this difficult time, yeah. We hired six new staff break through it all.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

So see, this is the stuff that people want to hear.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yeah, no, this is amazing. Literally, we hired our staff the week to just start it, yeah, and continued right through because we know the DUE is gonna be back bigger and better. Yeah, and we want everything in place for when it happens.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Well, I I really wish you the best of luck with Agma. I think that um you're really going in a good way. And I'm really, really glad that uh, first off, that you're able to join us today. Uh, but I'm really glad that we got to hear this side of events that people like myself that as a as a project director, you know, we we expect something from HSE. We have these, you know, we know they've got it sorted out, it's done, but we never peek behind the curtain sometimes to really see how they're doing it. And there's so much involved. And whether or not they like it or whether or not they'll say it, they're thankful for it. They appreciate it. There's a gratitude that people are safe, that that we see these guys in the high viz walking around making sure that everything is is going is going right and that everyone's gonna be walking out of their happy and and we're not the form police.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

That that's what we've been called on site sometimes is oh, here comes the fun police. We're not for the fun police. They have to work with people, yeah, to make people work and go home safe. That's all you want. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

So even if they have to move a stand a little bit to the right or left, or yeah, or even have so be it.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Stand off that flight case and use the ladder.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, it's not that simple. Well, thanks again, Dan. Thanks really for great having you here and uh wish you the best for this uh amazing rest of 2026 to come.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

You too, Michael. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

The backdrop podcast was recorded at One Central Dubai, hosted by Michael McClennan and produced by Dan Powell.