Possession, Demons and Exorcisms, What is real?

For centuries, stories of demonic possession and exorcisms have terrified believers and skeptics alike.  We explore one of humanity's darkest and most controversial questions: Are demons real? 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome everybody to The Vine in the Veil, the podcast where we dive between worlds to explore the mysteries of the light and the dark, the wisdom of the spiritual, the wonder of the mystical, and the power of the supernatural. I'm your host, Carlos, and this is my co-host, Maria. And in today's episode, we're going to talk about attachments, exorcisms, and all the really spooky, demonic-y sort of things. So let's get started. When did you first believe that demons or exorcists and stuff like that were real?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Um, when I first watched The Exorcism, I must have been, what, five, six?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Not sure why our parents let us watch that kind of movie so young, but I do remember that the power of Christ compels you. Um Pea Soup.

unknown 0:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

So the The Exorcist was a very scary movie. Yes. I remember we were at our cousin's house because, or their apartment because they had cable. And one of our older cousins was actually watching it, and so they let us watch the whole thing. That's how we watched it. So you were you were five, and I was eight. I was eight. And so it's one of those things where you're it's it's you're at such an impressionable age. And given the fact that you've grown up in a religious household, it it just cemented that fear in you of, you know, the devil and the, you know, demonic entities and and things like that. And it was just, it, it stuck with it for me, it stuck with me for a very, very long time. And you start hearing about the movie and what happened, and then you start diving into the accounts of the doc of the documentary of the boy that it actually happened to the book, yeah. The boy that it happened to the story in the hospital and how they sealed off the hospital room because of the the you know the residual energy and the presence of that sort of thing. And then as you go into the Catholic Church, you start hearing about exorcisms that have been run, and you go into a lot of other cultures, and there is this idea of people that can cast out these entities, spirits, attachments, or whatever. So it's a it's a super interesting topic to talk about. I wonder how much of it has to do with, you know, your core belief system in the fact that you believe in good and evil, or you've been taught to believe that there's good and there's evil, and good always triumphs over evil, but evil is around and it, you know, that it's it's mischievous and it does these things and it likes to take over people and corrupt people for no other reason that it can. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

I have a question for you, given you saying all that. Have you ever met somebody that gave you like the EBGB so much that you're like, you know what? I think that person's possessed.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

No, I I'm I'm I've met people because here's the thing. As you get to, as you go down this journey and you start understanding more about how energy works and stuff like that, you start recognizing people and seeing their traumas, all the things that have happened to them. And so you can you can kind of see how they operate based on on those things. I've never met somebody who I I would consider I I could that has that kind of negative energy about them. I've met people that are like, ugh, you know, they just make you feel you feel oppressed. Yeah, you feel like this pressure in your chest kind of thing, or been in an area where it's like that, where the energy is so heavy. That's the best way you can describe it. It's like a heavy dense energy. And we have a tendency as human beings to identify those things with associated to something evil, or label it as something because that's how we can try to process it. And depending on how our belief systems are are set up and how we're raised, we tend to make that connection.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

I have to say, I'm pretty sure I met somebody that was possessed. So my psych rotation. Um I saw the gamut. There was someone that thought she was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. There were people that had disassociative disorder, but there was one lady we were outside for their um, I guess they're like PE moments. Um, this lady was probably in her 30s, and there was something about her, like she had pitch black eyes. But it was the way out of everyone there, and I don't know, like maybe I was giving off a vibe that she was intimidating me, although everyone come to find out was intimidated by her. But her eye, like her whole essence was pure evil, like not even sociopath, like beyond sociopath.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

But what did she get? What was she in there for?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

I can't disclose those things beyond sociopath. But she was like she would scan you, and it was just like the worst creepiest black sludge of energy was looking at you. It was like the weirdest experience I ever had in my life, is being around this one person that exuded that much negative or low vibration. Like it was a vibration. I mean, it could have been a vibration, but she like if there was anything that came close to that and someone being possessed, that would have been a good example of it. Like it she felt pure evil, and whatever I would assume would be somebody with a demonic possession, like interacting with me. And she she would follow me, she would follow me, and she would just like just stare at me. She wouldn't even say anything, just like stare at me. And she was she was totally creepy, totally creepy.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

That's super interesting. Yeah, I've I've never met anybody not like that. Not like that. You can see people that sometimes their their energy is a little bit leaning that way, and it's very heavy and very dense, and you try to stay away from those kind of people because you're just like, this is gonna lead to no good or nowhere.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Uh but like meeting somebody who has been who has a an attachment like that. I've never met anybody there.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah. Um, that was an interesting situation. I do believe in demonic possession. I think that there are um maybe not necessarily the devil but mischievous beings out there that can inhabit a person um and then change them. I do I there wasn't the and this was most recent, maybe about like seven years ago. My sister came up to visit Northern California, and um she wanted to go to one of the churches over in San Jose, and I didn't know why. Um, there was a statue of a Virgin Mary out there that was like super huge. Um, so I humored her. I was like, okay, let's go. And as we're walking to the statue, we're passing by the place where the priests live. I can't remember what that's called. Um, and as we're walking by there, I'm like, whoa, this feels really heavy. And it actually felt like the way I felt when I was around that woman. And I was like, this, there's something like that felt once we got to where the Virgin Mary was, that felt good. But as we were walking through that area, I felt like shit had gone down in that place. Like whether it was exorcisms or the battle between like good and bad. And then come to find out afterwards, like I was so obsessed about like this feeling because it was like this is this was something negative. This is something that, like, for me, I know what that feeling was, that I started Googling in the car, like whether or not that was a place where exorcisms happen. So come to find out the um the priest that the book, The Rite was written after, actually practiced there at that at that church. So I was like, what are the coincidences that I would feel that and then later on like almost validate that maybe, maybe they didn't do anything there, but that there was this energy that was in that area that just floated around that area.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah. I uh so I for me now, knowing what I know and knowing about the the universe and and energy and stuff, I don't I don't believe that there are demonic entities that exist. I think there are energies out there that operate at different frequencies and and vibrations and stuff, and ultimately nothing can happen to you unless you let it and you believe it to be so. And then if you believe it to be so, of course things will start manifesting for you and start happening for you. So for us, for example, we were indoctrinated into a religion that was very much about good and evil, and good versus evil, and you want to be on the good side, and everything else is that's not is is evil, and evil takes this form, and good takes this form. But you know that's not true because a lot of the people that were in the religion that we were practicing were not very good.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

No, they were not. They were not, they were just come to find out they were all pedo, pedophiles or whatever, yeah, whatever it was, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:34

So I don't I don't I don't think that that whole idea of religion and stuff is created to control people. And what better way to control people than by controlling your soul? So if you don't do these things, then you're gonna become possessed, or the devil is gonna take over, or these demons are gonna let them in. They're creating that narrative to keep you controlled.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Usually the people that become influenced, influenced in that state that become possessed, they're usually extremely oppressed to begin with and almost an open vessel for something to come in. Because we attract that they're almost welcoming it in. So I that's why I do believe that. I mean, you are looking at people that were probably at like their lowest low, and chances are they were on something that would also like leave them open to whether it's suggestion or whatever it is, but have have this thing come in and take over their life.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Yeah, if you allow it.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

If you allow it.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

I think that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

And that's the thing is that they're allowing it because there's like at that point, what's the worst that can happen? And then you're allowing the worst to have you.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

You're giving away your power. Yes. And I think that's the that's the key to it is that you you give away the authority to be able to allow whatever dense energy or frequency, or you operate on that frequency. Right. And because you're operating on that frequency, you're attracting everything that comes in with that frequency.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Do I believe that there are people misdiagnosed as um, you know, having demonic possession and they really have a psychiatric problem? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think more of that happened than probably anything else. Um, especially, you know, back in the days where women were um hyperactive, or I forgot that they were the actual words of what they were labeling women of um having hysteria.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Oh, yeah, the hysteria.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Yeah, the hysteria moments. Um, and that wasn't a thing. That's again men taking away power. So I do think that there's something to what you're saying, but I have felt what, in my opinion, is that energy.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Yeah, and I think that that also, if you look at it from your pers your perspective, right? The narrative that you created from that was based on how you grew up. And all of the all of the everything that you've learned up until that point, you automatically saw that lady and you labeled her as evil because of the energy or the the presence that you felt there. When it might not have been evil at all.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Oh no, she was a thousand percent evil. Oh no. I I know, I know, because like I said, I have met many people along the way that had that, you know, kind of gave that impression and they weren't. That was out of all the experiences I've had in my life, that was the only person that actually gave that energy, the only person. And it was it was fascinating and scary at the same time. But going along with it, like we were we were very Catholic and the power that we give things, like how we had a book that was handed down from a priest that had the rights of exorcism in it. We had um holy water glore, like every time that you know, the um Good Friday came along, that was the reset of the holy water for the next year. We would come Easter Sunday, we were refilling on the new batch of holy water. Um, but there there is power in that though. I do believe that there's power to the water, whether it be power that we give it or power that it's makes it blessed and even more powerful. Um different cultures do the same thing, even to Florida water. Like this is something that in witchcraft, that is something that is used to battle entities and spirits. So I do believe that there's something to that, but again, being devil's advocate here, is that the power that we are giving it to be able to protect us?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

I believe that's the case because it let's say, for example, you know, we believe in the the holy water, we believe in onks, we believe in the evil eye. You at some point in your life, you heard from somebody that this is the thing that's going to protect you. So you develop that narrative and that belief in your mind that that's what's going to give you that protection. Where ultimately it's you assigning that intention, that energy to that thing that's actually going to protect you. Because these things are just, they're just things, they're material. Yes, they have a vibration inherently of their own, but you have to assign that to them.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Did you ever have an experience, especially since, like I said, we all know the background by now? If you're new to us, you don't. You were very raised, very Catholic. Um, when you were in a state of fear of whether it was like us seeing ghosts or whatever it was, knowing the prayers by heart, not being able to say them.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yeah, I would always say that.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

I had that happen to me multiple times, whether it was in a dream where I was like controlling my dream and trying to break whatever nightmare I was in. The one prayer that always came through for me was the St. Michael prayer. That was the only one that I could recite every single time. Lord's Prayer, nope. Hail Mary, nope. But the one that was always there that I could say and then would break whatever it was was the St. Michael prayer.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

That's because your belief was so strong that that was gonna happen. Probably. And you were able to call in that energy. Yeah. Whatever, because again, the idea of these angels that that have these attributes to them, those were created by the church. Yeah. There's no historical evidence that these angels actually existed. There is the Bible that says that they existed, right? So all of these, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years of belief that are tied to that, right? And if you have enough people believing in it, things happen. And I think it's the same thing for any of these deities or anything else. It's the attributes and the energies of these things that you can then use to be able to augment your own energy to provide protection or whatever it is that you're doing there, right? And in that sense. And I think that's it. And it's the same thing for, you know, people have labeled, you know, certain deities negative energies. Right, like Lilith or Lilith, or but but they're not, they're not they're energies that exist for you to you to channel to be able to accomplish things, but they have attributes that have been given to them by people. Somebody gave them that, somebody created that story and gave them that, and people believed.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

And because of that belief, these things now manifest.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Right. So like cryptids that didn't exist before and now they may or may not be a thing. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

We like to label things, right? We do like we like to label everything because that's how we're able to try to understand it or put it in a box. And some things you just you just can't label. Right. Right? Like the whole idea of Lucifer. Lucifer does not exist. Lucifer did not exist. Lucifer was a mistranslation. Somebody was translating the Bible to Greek and mistranslated it. And they were talking about the king of Babylon. They were not talking about Lucifer. So, but because of that, they the people took that and created the narrative that there was Lucifer who was the fallen angel and who became the devil. Non existent. So again, it's it's the power of story and the power of belief. So now when people say Lucifer, they're like, oh my God, that's really really easy. But he he was just somebody's mistranslation. Yeah. That somebody then carried on and created this whole story behind that a bunch of people fell into and believed that didn't check, didn't do any any sort of any sort of research because they believed.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Because they believed in the people that were controlling everything. They were told. Yes. I do I do agree with that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

So it's interesting, right? When you when you think about it from that standpoint, or the idea that, you know, we'll we'll get into starting to get more philosophical, that Jesus existed.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

I believe there was a man.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

I believe that there was a man who was probably very um high vibration. Was very high vibrational. He did a lot of research, he understood, and he was trying to preach spirituality and the fact that you are God. You are the son of God, just like he was. Right. But again, people who don't understand that take we have a tendency to want to put people and things on a pedestal. Yes. Right? And worship them as opposed to understanding that we are exactly that.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

So it it changes, it changes your perspective on kind of the world and this higher entire uh what's the best way to put this? Things that have been created. There's no doubt that I have no doubt that there are base energies out there that exist that have taken on many different forms in many different cultures according to the belief system of the culture. And those are things that you can use to channel energy to help you in some way. Whatever that is. Whether it's you want to accomplish something or you want to do harm to somebody or you want to protect something, there is no right or wrong in that, in that, in that that viewpoint of the universe. The universe doesn't judge.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

I do agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

People judge.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

People judge.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yes. And in Christianity, they're some of the worst hypocrites out there.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

I think that there is when it comes to spirits and stuff, if you have grown up that way and you believe that that exists, then your reality will start showing that.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I can see that.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Your reality will start showing those things, or you'll interpret them that way.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Right. It's almost like essentially the whole thing, like you haven't seen a red car in months, right? And then you're like, you know what? I haven't seen a red car in months. And then all of a sudden you're seeing like 20 in the next five minutes, it's because we're manifesting it because normally our mind is closed off to whatever it is, or we're manifesting that energy to bring it to a reality. And if we're in a sim or in a whatever it is in a matrix kind of situation, even more so, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Right. So when you think about, let's let's think about uh Archangel Michael, or like, say, for example, Anubis, you know, there's there's history behind all of these, right? And there's a lot of a lot of narratives that have been created about Archangel Michael, right and how he's a protector and he is the you know, he's the right hand to God. And so there's a huge belief in that.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

So when you call that energy based on this of the Michael that we know, those are the attributes that you're gonna want to pull from, but it's you leveraging that energy to do whatever it is, whether it's breaking, you know, uh low vibrational energy, dissipating it or whatever, it's the same thing for like Anubis. Anubis has is is uh is an older deity, but has these attributes of transformation, the underworld, moving people from one area to another. And so when you channel that, the energy, you're you're trying you're channeling those attributes. You're bringing those attributes to bear to kind of help you through things. Whether it's you're going through a transformation in your life, or you need you you believe that that's gonna help protect you in some way, then it'll be that way.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, I could see that.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

So it's it's super fascinating when you start getting into some of the little more esoteric sides of of it. It's not as cut and dry as I think religions want you to make it. Right. So when you start saying, hey, good and evil, hey, they're part of the same spectrum, it's how you perceive it. It is because I could be looking at something and you could go, man, that is bad. And I'd be like, no, it's not bad. I don't think it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Yeah. I mean, that kind of with the the story of the cursed man. My first impression of the guy in New Orleans that was actually able to curse him, I was like, whoa, that was wicked. But then the more I thought about it, I was like, no, he wasn't wicked. He was just like, This is what you really want to do. Okay, I'll take care of it. So it wasn't really a negative thing. It was, it was something where my perception of that gave it that vibration where if it hadn't been for my pre the yeah, the pre cognitive thing where I'm like, okay, this is what this is what I associate to that kind of laugh and that kind of magic then I had my bias that played into it.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Right. And it's your belief systems that tie into that. And so I think that's one of the big things about this whole discussion is if you truly believe in exorcism and that demons are real, they will be real for you.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

But the other another person who doesn't believe in that and maybe believes in some something else specifically will show a different reality. Correct. It won't be that way though.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

I believe that's true.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

You give power to whatever it is that's there. And I think that in your reality you're you are such a powerful being that whatever you want to manifest will manifest in the way that you want it to manifest.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Ready for that other jackpot to hit not that I ever play it but still want it. Get the supernatural supernatural lottery.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah get the supernatural lottery. And the next thing you know you have like this whole place is filled with beings and entities as a sanctuary space.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Sanctuary for the spirits. No thank you. I already have a hard time sleeping just with the dogs and the cats doing what they do every night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

But I think that's the that's the fascinating part about all of this is the more you start delving into it and the more you expand your awareness and you the more you open yourself up to the possibilities of other things that are just not what your core belief system has been trained to do, that's when your world starts growing.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

You can see that.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Right because think about think about our religion and how oppressive it actually was.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yeah it was very oppressive.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

And that you had to follow these rules and if you didn't follow these rules you were going to hell.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Hell does not exist. None of that exists in my opinion. I mean if you believe it yeah okay cool. For you in this in this time and space it'll exist. But then when your consciousness moves on it'll move on.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah. I don't know if I I don't know if I believe in a heaven or a hell I do believe that there are beings and entities out there, but I don't know if I believe in a heaven I believe in energy.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

I believe in energy I don't think that there is personally I don't I don't believe in the heaven or hell because I mean it's weird that there would be a divine being that is all powerful all knowing and extremely kind that would create a hell and cast people into it because they didn't believe in him her them right doesn't make it totally contradictory.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

It's a it's a it's a paradox right because you're like all knowing all seeing all kindness and light and love right but yet you're cool with souls being cast into the pit of darkness and like why would you kill your son let your son die to absolve people of their sins. No I'm just saying like that that narrative in itself is like of course mind blowing.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

But it's it's it's all based on control. Yeah because it's control he he sacrificed so you all can live um and now you owe and now you owe right we owe the Catholicism or just Christianity because if you create let let's just we're going to go down a a road here right and it it ties into spirits and demons and all this stuff right if you create this narrative and this narrative is I don't know thousands thousands of years old whatever you have all of these people believing and giving their energy to this this entity of the church needs that energy in order to continue to stay successful. A demon hunter so it needs to create these new people all the people that get indoctrinated from the very beginning we didn't have a choice.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

We were brought in from the very beginning and immediately thrown into into into this religion.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

So imagine all of those generations of people that are all believing the same thing and going through all of these rituals that have been created for control.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

And there are so many rituals in the Catholic Church. So many different rituals so many yeah so that's what you get yeah and and for those of you that haven't had the the pleasure of um experiencing that think about if you've watched K-pop demon hunters right that it's very similar where the K-pop demon hunters their singing brings that energy the positive good energy and then their I don't know the name of the bad realm or the bad people um but when they're singing it brings in the negative vibrations and then everyone morphs into that so again it's that that group consciousness that ends up morphing whatever whatever's out there for you whatever energy is going to rule for you. So it's interesting interesting concept.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Here's keeping on with K-pop demon hunters this is the kind of how I believe us to be as beings we have both sides. We are both if you want to I'm again it's the same side of the spectrum we as human beings tend to label things. So for the human being standpoint we are both light and dark. We have both sides and we have to have both sides in order to truly experience on this planet. So imagine you have uh a religion or you've been told for the entirety of your life that this side is the side that you need to be on this side is bad and you never explore this side well then you're not whole you're never whole until you actually fully start delving into this side and understanding the up the opposite part of you and experiencing those experiences. Because how can you speak on any of this stuff on this side if you haven't gone through it on this side if you haven't lived it. And I think that's what we as human beings need to understand and need to be able to accept but society is not geared to do that. And so it comes up with all of these things that demonize the number 13 the number 666 is now associated with the devil when it never was do you remember grandma we wouldn't use Crocker and Gamble because they were evil they had the demon they had the demon symbols on them.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

So all of that stuff that's not understood or or ultimately not inherently bad has been labeled to be that way. And I think that's the case for a lot of deities entities things like that because people don't understand and they need they need to unite people against something. And so what better way?

SPEAKER_00 28:34

What better way of friction or you know even within our politics whatever it is like you have to have that friction state for people to to feel essentially to feel to feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Now granted you met some people I think I've met some very low vibrational people I wouldn't call them evil because they're they're just running at a different place in their journey. And yeah maybe they there are energetic attachments that are there that have are very fond of that sort of sort of thing. But that's I don't I don't necessarily think that that's evil per se. I think that those people are at a certain point on their journey where they're trying to trying to continue that and eventually hopefully and maybe not in this lifetime but eventually start moving through that and raising their vibration and their their their frequency and attracting other other things that are more beneficial in some way.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

So in the aspect of me having met that person that had the low vibration I remember um my sister invited me to go and see a performer at one of the meditation centers up here in Northern California. I didn't know anything about Movac frame of reference nothing like that. So I go into a bookshop to try to find some a book that I had read um on some Dharma from the Buddhist classes that I had taken in Palm Springs. And I love the book but I gave it to someone because they really needed it. So I'm going through there and I turn the corner and I see this person and I swear they're fucking glowing like glowing this positive energy no idea who it was until he walked on the stage he turns around and looks at me and smiles and again like just like this pure happy glowing state and it was shocking to me and actually my husband like felt the same way. And then when he came on stage we're like oh well that makes sense because he was like a very spiritualistic kind of guy positive like energy um Buddhist practitioner and it was just so weird going from you know having that experience to seeing somebody that had this beautiful pure energy about him. Now come years later we go to another concert he did have some turmoil in his life where relationship kind of fell apart. So the next time I see him that light wasn't there which was really sad. Um but the first time I did meet him like whatever was going on in his life right there he he had that energy and it was beautiful. It was beautiful yeah it was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

I think I think there is when people are at peace with themselves and if you are Buddhist you believe in the middle way which is basically being able to ride that line where you oh you are not one side or the other but you're kind of in that medium where you've experienced both sides and you're running this path. I think that you can you can recognize when somebody's at peace with themselves. Now whether they're glowing or whatever, I think that there is something to be said for people exude energy in some way. But again you have to be really careful with that because some people are really good projectors and they're very good about projecting what energy they want you to see.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

And so there's that there's that you know because again if you this gets into all kinds of other stuff that's kind of wild when you when you when you create an identity and you start becoming that identity that's what you'll project. And so for him That's true you could be like hey I gotta be on and I got to project this energy of goodness and kindness and I'm feeling the vibe and everything's going and that's what people you'll radiate that for people when truly you're not really that it's almost like a religio religious cult but I would not have followed him to a religious cult. No but some people some people will some people probably would yeah that's I think more women wanted to sleep with him than to I think there are I think there are there are people that you can meet where you're just like I sense something about that person. I sense a the best way to you hear a lot of people talk about I I sense a light in them. And that's because their energy is very stable you know and their and their vibration and that frequency that they're at is is that it's in a good place. Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Right so that's why you you believe in it I believe it was at a good place in that point in time. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

But he's human and he is human yeah we're all we're all we all go through ups and downs we go through experiences and it's about how we decide to deal with those experiences. And sometimes you you know you make choices and different things happen and you just have to keep keep moving forward. So it's really interesting that you saw somebody somebody glow like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah I don't think I've ever met anybody that I think it was like an maybe his aura I it was just like I've never seen something like that before where like the smile was just added to it but like there I saw like a white light a white yellowish light just like around him. Yeah you probably saw and it was it was fascinating I do see auras in people every once in a while but usually the good ones I don't think I've ever seen like actually seen a dark aura on someone I only like my brain only wants to focus on the good ones.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

I've seen black auras before yeah yeah smoky smoky black but that's more because their life is in turmoil turmoil yeah and they have they have some major challenges that they're going through in in their space. But I think that's a again it is a lot of it is you know when you see something like that you attach attributes to it.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Of course our brain attaches what it knows right glowing in white and all this is good. Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

That's to you, right? Where black and smoky and all this is bad.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

When it might not necessarily be right because sometimes you might need the black and the smoky and and somebody who's got that kind of aura to teach you things.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

No I mean I think we learn something from everyone we encounter like I don't think there was ever one interaction I've had with anyone that hasn't taught me something even if it was a couple seconds what did you learn from the evil lady that you said was evil? To avoid evil people I learned from her that true evil does exist in people um and that I I mean I think that was the biggest one. I th I learned in that in that whole state of the state of broken people like I I did learn that obviously like traumas lead to a lot of where people are in life. They're not taught coping mechanisms um but a lot of the the the people that were in there wanted help like they were trying to seek help. Now it wasn't a place where it was you know more of the impoverished place for psychiatric help versus it being a um a place where like you would put yourself in for rehab or anything like that. So it was a good the good and the bad and people that have done bad things in their life as well were in that that place. So I don't her full background I mean there are things that had been done that the normal person wouldn't do um but also there was like that innate energy of it like it I don't there was never a frame of reference other than you know the darkness that I felt and saw in her eyes. I mean I'm sure everybody else had different eyes than what I saw but I saw like pitch black eyes it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

It's wild isn't it it's pretty wild all right so the and on on pitch black I think that's a perfect way to end it. Like I mean if you guys have ever encountered somebody like that that's like that you feel is low vibr super low vibrational or evil uh we'd love to hear about it because I think that's you know hearing people's stories and and their encounters is also pretty fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Ever had an exorcism or know about an exorcism or participated or participated in an exorcism I would love to hear that.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Yeah that would be an interesting story to to tell for sure. Again there's so many different religions philosophies ideas. Some of this stuff spans multiple cultures and so we would love to know more because I I think part of our part of the reason why we're doing this podcast is not only to just to talk about our experiences and our point of view but it's also to kind of understand and continue to learn and grow ourselves so we'd love to hear from you and stay tuned for another episode.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

We don't know what it's going to be yet but we'll we'll come up we still need Vampire part two will come a little bit later but uh yeah hear from you soon.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Take care. Bye