Tarot: Messages from Beyond or Mind's Illusion?

Is tarot really a window into the future, or is it something far more mysterious? In this episode, we uncover the centuries-old origins of tarot, separate myth from fact, and explore why these symbolic cards continue to captivate millions.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Welcome everybody to The Vine in the Veil, the podcast where we dive between worlds to reveal the mysteries of the light and the dark, the wisdom of the spiritual, the wonder of the mystical, and the power of the supernatural. I'm your host, Carlos, and this is my co-host Maria. And today we are going to talk about tarot and tarot readings and fortune telling. I think that a lot of a lot of different folks, especially right now, are kind of you have two sides. You have your very conservative side of the world, the Christianity people in religion that view tarot as something that is illegal, immoral, I don't know, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Summoning the devil.

SPEAKER_05 0:43

Yeah, summoning the devil, anything that's not occult arts. Yes, the occult arts, things like that. And there are even there are even laws in the books on in some states of tarot.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Actually, seven states that have not necessarily tarot, but fortune telling, clairvoyance, um, divination, um, and anything that they consider you know summoning or occult practices. They um there are laws out there in seven states. I want to say it's like Minnesota, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, New York, Massachusetts. Interestingly enough, um, scrolling through TikTok, I want to say like a couple days ago, I did see that there is a um a content creator that focuses on tarot that is um is actually going to court in Pennsylvania for um fortune telling.

SPEAKER_05 1:34

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_05 1:36

That's kind of that's kind of wild. I I guess that's why you see on a lot of times on social media where they'll put up for entertainment purposes only.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:44

But then there's, you know, if you want a private reading, contact me.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:47

So that's that's super interesting. Uh I I heard that in some states too, they it's it's legal to do it, but you need like a permit.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah, you could have a license or a permit. So um, yeah, I mean, all of this started from like the 1800s and 1900s when the charlatans snake oil salesman would come into town and and you know, take your money. Here's this magical elixir. Let me tell you your fortune. This is what you need to solve all your issues. And because of that, a lot of these practices ended up getting a bad name, and um, these laws came up. So interesting. Um, also, had are there any laws against witchcraft itself? No.

SPEAKER_05 2:31

Well, because isn't that more uh recognized more as a religion?

SPEAKER_02 2:34

It is under the First Amendment, right? It has been for decades that Wicca, Wicca specifically, is or Wiccans have been um put into that bucket of an organized religion. Which I think is cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:48

At least they're not persecuting witches anymore.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

I mean, I'm sure there are places.

SPEAKER_05 2:52

I think humanity's advanced a little bit in that.

unknown 2:54

I'd like to hope.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

So since you bring that up, I'm I'm questioning that fact. So there also has been a movement in TikTok that we actually started discussing, I want to say yesterday, maybe like a um a night ago, where the um the there's a content or a couple content creators that have moved from tarot readers to popular tarot readers to Christianity and like totally gave up their practice. Now, was that a result of somebody persecuting them to the point where they felt like they needed that?

SPEAKER_05 3:27

I don't know. I I think that that that uh people on their journey, they they go through different phases. And I think that sometimes um, you know, when you have people that are are dealing in one philosophy or a practice, uh, you know, they get to the point where either their their cup isn't filled or you know, something happens in their life that causes a lot of potential trauma or turmoil or something where they they turn to something else for help. And in this case, a lot of times it's you know, you hear people, you know, we turn to Christianity, I found Jesus, I was saved by the Lord and stuff like that. And if if you want to go down that route, great, you know, more power to you because I think you are at a stage in your life where it it fills your cup in that way. Um, but yeah, I I think that it's it's super it's super interesting, especially when you've already established your brand as a tarot reader and somebody who you know for all intents and purposes tells your future as a fortune teller. So and and it also is is is very challenging for the base that you've built as well. So I'm I'm I'm I'm of the opinion that you do you, yeah, if if that's if that's the direction that you want to go, but you're you at least in my opinion, if you have a fan base and you have a uh a platform that was built on that, it's you you probably should shut it down because I think that that's that was a chapter in your life, and if you really want to close it and move on, you close everything.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Right, absolutely. I do, I do have to agree with you. I think there's we always like you said, sometimes we put ourselves into these buckets, like into these classifications. I don't think that you can't be a tarot reader and a Christian at the same time as well. Like, there's no reason why you can't unless you become involved with a church that is very adamant, like we absolutely do not align with that, and then you start moving towards that practice, then I could see that. But I don't think like for and I do believe that many tarot card readers or fortune tellers or even people that practice witchcraft are kind of a little bit of both, like, or at least started with a Christian. Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 5:41

I mean, I think it's how you define God, and then this is a whole different you know discussion podcast in and of itself, but I think that you can believe in God, whatever you God is to you, whether it's you know your traditional Christian God or whether you know you subscribe to the the idea that you know we are all God because we're all part of consciousness, so that makes us God in in in in that way. So I do believe that it is it is totally fine if you want to you know practice the arts and still believe in a God. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

So on our dad's side, sh um our great-grandmother Julia, she actually used to practice um tarot reading, but she did it with like a standard deck of cards, which originated originated, correct. Yeah. So I think that's interesting that um, you know, she was a very stout Catholic as well, but she still dabbled a little bit into that.

SPEAKER_05 6:41

Yeah, and I think now tarot has become uh much more mainstream, especially with the advent of social media. There are a lot of people who are who are tarot readers or aspiring tarot readers. And I think that's I think that's totally cool and and totally interesting. Have you done any or gone to see a tarot uh fortune teller to get your cards read?

SPEAKER_02 7:01

I started so um a couple of friends and myself decided we were curious um in college, freshman year. So we did um buy some books on witchcraft. We bought a tarot deck and we we started to learn like the basic tarot reading, what they meant, um, but not really like dive entirely into it. But I was fascinated with it and it was interesting, especially if you're doing like the past, present, and future kind of thing. It was almost always correct when I did the past. So whenever I was pulling those cards, they were very interesting. Um, I have actually gone to a fair psychic who kind of gave the charlatan vibe. Um, she wanted, she was like, Oh, this is wrong with you, that's wrong with you, you need to pay me $2,000, and we'll do these cleansings with these Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Oh, they tie in the cleansings.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

And then that's only the first step, and then there was there was going to be additional steps. Once I was in are we cutting? You're not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

So I don't glitch it.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Hey. I verbalized it. Good. Come on, go inside, please. This one's open.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

I can't hear you over there.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

And when I was in my late twenties, I actually went to um a psychic that worked with the Orange County Police Department. Interestingly enough, she was recommended by Veronica Parsons. So she was legit. She was so legit. She was actually really interesting. She was the one who told me that you, even though you never said that you saw things, had experienced a lot. Because before that, he never let us know that he had any um ghost experiences, nothing about seeing spirits, nothing about his dreams, like none of that. Like tight sealed didn't let us know that he was experiencing any of that. So she's the one who's like, actually, your brother sees a lot and he has seen a lot. Um, so that was interesting. Um, but even more so, like she told me I was gonna meet my husband at a place of entertainment. And at the time I was like, Well, what do you mean? She's gonna be like, he's the guy with the hair. And I was like, okay. Um, she was she was like, he's gonna be more handsome than any guy you ever dated. I think that's true. Um, I met him at a casino, never thought that that was gonna be the correlation. I was thinking more of like entertainment in Disneyland. Um, and then um he has great hair, so that was interesting. But before I left, she stopped me. She was we went through so much, like talking about like the past, this, the hauntings, the broken mirror that we talked about in another episode. Um, and she gave me um advice of like what all that was. Um, before I left, she stopped me and she's like, You have a male figure that is protecting you. He's been around, he's been around all the time, like he's always there for you. And he wants me to let you know that your front right tire, there's something with like he's pointing at you like your front and right tire, and he wants me to tell you that you need to get it checked right away or you're gonna be in a horrible accident. So obviously, like I'm like, hmm, there might be something to this, but then she went on to say their birthday, and this was in August, there's their birthday is in August, and it's coming up in a couple of weeks. And at the time, like I totally spaced my grandfather had passed, like maybe by like two or three years at that point in time. And because I was so overwhelmed of everything that she told me, I actually didn't think about it until after I left, and I was like, that was grandpa. Because his his birthday is August 14th, and I was like, that was grandpa. Um, so of course, the next day I go to a dealership to get my car checked, and there the axle had like this huge crack in it. So yeah, pretty crazy. It's not like she like stabbed my tire and there was gonna be something wrong with the tire. My axle had a crack in it, and that like blew my mind, right?

SPEAKER_05 12:45

Yeah, yeah, super cool.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:47

I've never I've never gone to a uh a tarot reader or a psychic or anything like that. It would I think it would be kind of interesting to go to go through that. I do think that there are again, there are different uh ideas on on tarot reading or you know, predicting the future and stuff like that. And so there's this there is this uh you know school of thought that is you're projecting your own reality. So when you when you project your reality, it's basically your higher self telling you what you need to know.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

Right.

SPEAKER_05 13:20

I could see that so everybody that you see in your reality is basically a mirror of you. So it's you telling you that these are the things that are that are happening in ways that you can understand, right? And what which is which is kind of interesting, and it kind of blows your mind when you think about that, which is basically like my higher self is telling me these things that I need to know or I would like to know. Um and the idea of being able to predict the future or see the future, I think that those are kind of interesting because we are so susceptible to intention. And if somebody puts an intention in your mind, it can manifest that way.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Correct.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

So if you think about that, right, all possibilities are there. But if if somebody, if you focus on a specific one, it will probably manifest for you. Right. So when somebody does that, it puts that in your mind, and now that subconsciously you're thinking about that and it'll happen for you. So it's I can see that it's an interesting uh take on that, where it's basically like, oh, possibilities haven't really happened, it's still the future, but now because somebody put that little seed in your mind, subconsciously you're thinking about it and it and it happens.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Yeah. Well, she wasn't right about everything because I ended up not having. She's told me I was gonna have twins, but not only did I not have twins, I was actually infertile. So yeah, that was an accurate.

SPEAKER_05 14:50

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

But she was pretty spot on with a lot of other things.

SPEAKER_05 14:53

Yeah, and so that's why I think it's it's at least personally in my opinion, I think it is your higher self telling you things that you need to know. And other things that you don't need to know, you just it isn't it isn't of of much consequence. Right. But I think people get can get really um addicted, is the right word, yeah, maybe, to life choices, tarot reads mobile card you pull from. So they will, you know, they will they have to go see their their you know, their their reader or their psychic and before they make decisions because they want to make sure that those decisions are are right. And I mean it's not uncommon. I mean, I think it's happened throughout all of history where people in very powerful positions have had mystics and psychics and spiritualists who are there to kind of give them advice or kind of help steer them in a direction or maybe even protect them right from other things that are that are happening. So it's it's a very fantastic and fascinating world when you start thinking about tarot, right? Because you know, I I have a deck that I like using, it's the Kali Kali Oracle deck. And uh, you know, I whenever I I am um thinking about something and I kind of want to just a general uh idea of a direction or an answer to a question that I have, I'll pull the deck and you know, pull a card or maybe do the past, present, future if I really want to try to do that. But mostly it's just pulling a card. And honestly, you know, for me, these cards inherently don't have any power. It's the power that you give it. And when you're when you're using a deck, whether it's a tarot deck or an oracle deck, you at least in my opinion, you are basically using this to focus and channel your higher self and to tell you or to give you answers to questions that you may have, or at least a general direction. So, but it's it's a good way to kind of focus your energy to be able to actually do that as a leaf falls down on the deck.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

So what I think is interesting is that there's more than just a plain, um, you know, the you have your oracle decks, you have your plain tarot cards. What's the difference between them?

SPEAKER_05 17:02

Uh I think that the the tarot decks, there's a very there's there's a structure that's existed for a very long time that you kind of read and interpret the cards, the minor arcana, the major arcana, and and the common cards, and it's up to the person to make sure that they understand what those cards actually mean and then use their uh divination or the contact that they make energetically with with another person uh to be able to kind of give them an a reading or an interpretation of what those cards say in the order that this they say and in the direction that they come out, right? Because you know, a card that comes out one way or reversed has two different meanings. So they're it's very structured and very open, where an Oracle deck is very freeform. So it's it's subject to a lot more interpretation of the cards, you know, the what's in the card, what they and and what the person actually means. And I've seen people do really cool stuff with just homemade cards where they write, they've written down phrases and stuff and kind of pull them and and have a conversation based on them. And I think those are kind of cool too. So I think the the Oracle deck, at least in my opinion, gives you a lot more freeform because it's just like, hey, I'm pulling this card. This is what I this is what I feel it means, and this is what I'm gonna give you as far as an interpretation, where tarot is much more of a structure.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Um have you ever worked with a deck that um gives you advice on like, oh, you can you can call on an um entity or um something that is connected, whether it's that kind of deck. So let's say it's a deck for Anubis. Right. Have you seen ever worked with any kind of decks that you're doing?

SPEAKER_05 18:45

No, I mean I've got an Egyptian deck that I that I that I've used before. I've got a shadows deck, so something that's a little more uh, you know, if you want to call it dark, you know, rooted in in more of the shadow work stuff. Uh, but ultimately it's it's what you feel is going to work best for you because ultimately I think that you're you're channeling energy and you're harnessing energy to be able to you know give you some insight into something that you're gonna do or a direction at least. Right. Um you can. I've seen people use angel decks where they, you know, depending on the archangel or the angel that they that they bring in, it's basically them channeling or using the energy of that specific angel to be able to give you a message. But I don't think that that's I mean, I think it's that's up to the person and kind of how they are, how they interpret it based on their belief system and and what they want to get out of uh using a tarot deck or an Oracle deck.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

One thing that I found fascinating um in college, because you know, when you're or in, I mean I was like what 17, 18, when I tried tarot for the first time, and my friends and I would try to do the like back to back to back to see if we got the answer we wanted. And then a lot of the times it was the same answer each time, which I always thought was fascinating. And then even in my adult life, um one of my friends that comes over for Thanksgiving all the time, she and I love to do tarot together. And we don't do that as adults, but it's always interesting to see like your card spread. And she is very much more uh skilled in this, she's done it for a very long time. She does deep dives into practices. Um, but she it's the artwork and the stories or you know, the direction that it gives you of what the representation of each card is in these decks. Some of them are just beautiful. They're so beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 20:39

I think that there's a again, it's it's a it's a pretty big industry. So tarot cards are our billion-dollar industry.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 20:47

And there's always new ones that are coming out because people, you know, they depending on how they feel, the mood that they're in, you know, they'll use a specific deck for hey, I I'm I I really need something because this is a big deal. They'll pull a deck that you know that that's the deck, that's the heavy deck, right? So they'll use it for for big um things that they want answered.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Is your collie your big deck? No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 21:10

I have a shadow deck that I really use for for stuff like that. But um, but ultimately, it at least for me, it's a way for I know it's me, my higher self, giving me that information. But I use it because I I like to it's a feeling that I get. I want to use the Kali deck, I want to use the Dreamwear Weaver's Oracle deck, which is this one's a little lighter, but it's it's super interesting because again, I think the more the more you use a deck, the more you you uh you understand a deck, the more you're able to interpret even the cards. And like you said, some of the artwork that's in these cards is is pretty cool. And I think a really skilled tarot reader will take the card, understand what it says, or at least what the book says that it's supposed to do, but also add their interpretation based on the things that they say.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

Right.

SPEAKER_05 21:58

And the feelings that they get from. the card that either they're pulling it for themselves, the cards are pulling in for themselves, or pulling it for somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

So I think that's uh it's super cool. Like I I again it's I don't I don't think that you again at least in in my personal opinion I don't think that you need these in order to be able to actually uh connect with your higher self or with other energies. But it's a really good way for you to kind of focus. And I think that just like with any ritual that's out there it's it's meant to help you kind of focus on a specific thing. Right. And that's what these cards are at least to me.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 22:39

But you don't you don't you don't have to do that. You can go into meditation and do the kind of the same thing and still and still get answers to questions that you might have.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Right. Absolutely yeah that's fascinating I I don't really use it other than um you know when I'm going through a really tough time I have gone to tarot cards um but I don't really use it as like a daily practice or a weekly practice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:06

I I mean I've seen people give give readings and it's funny because like for a lot of the younger people one of the biggest questions that I've seen and I was watching this uh this tarot reader give this person a reading and it was all about love. They wanted to know when they were going to find Mr. Wright in this case you know it was it was a woman when were they going to find Mr. Wright and the tarot reader got kind of a little frustrated because he was telling her he was telling her information that she just didn't want to hear.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:37

She would keep asking the same question over and over again. So it's one of those things where I think a very good reader or a fortune teller or whatever will tell you what you need to hear not what you want to hear. And I think that separates the the absolutely the people because there are people that do this like you call them charlatans.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

I think they're they they do I said back in the day they called them charlatans well what do you call them now fortune tellers tarot readers.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

No no but the people that are in there for for the money they're not necessarily in there to have scammers scammers whatever I mean they're still charlatans I suppose yeah uh but it it's it's that sort of thing you if you're gonna use decks be prepared yes to hear what you need to hear and not what you want to hear. And I think that's really difficult for people especially in this day and age where they want to hear the the good things and they want to hear that they're amazing and they want to hear that Mr. Wright or Mrs. Wright is right around the corner and you just have to go and do the thing.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Or want them to clear the red flags of their personal it's all green.

SPEAKER_05 24:41

There are no reds.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Yes so interestingly enough for a psychic I went to see I don't know if she still practices I wasn't planning on seeing her name but it came out naturally I mean that's cool right I know she so Fareba if you're out there yes you were you are amazing um the she went before she even started that was a disclosure that was covered like if you're if we're gonna sit and have this conversation we are going to talk about good and bad regardless of what that means for you like we're covering things. When I went to New Orleans at the Vampire ball they had several psychics and it was the same thing before you started you were going to talk about good and bad interestingly enough I was like there was a line to see the one that I wanted to see. I really liked his vibe he had um the evil eye ring and he used it to kind of cleanse himself in between people especially when he was dealing with someone that had a lot of heavy energy like you could see him like twirling around or like flashing that ring at that person because he didn't want to absorb that energy. Also interesting is that's when I started to have a correlation of like noticing something with a lot of people in New Orleans that practice either fortune telling or magic or voodoo whatever practice it was that a lot of them were actually missing teeth or missing a tooth. So this guy actually was missing a tooth and that raised a flag I was like you know that's interesting because well dressed I didn't I didn't but then the more I was walking around and going into these places I started noticing that it was very common. And so I decided to while I was there look into it like is there a correlation here between that or maybe something they practice and especially if you're practicing something for yourself that actually amplifies like your your tooth your bodily fluids like that actually is supposed to help amplify your magic or witchcraft in your spells or rituals.

SPEAKER_05 26:53

So I think that's interesting like maybe that was a correlation of them all happening maybe but but again and I think that that's an interesting correlation because it ties to um specific rituals and beliefs that have been kind of like passed from person to person over time. And I wonder if that is if that is again a way to be able to actually your belief and your focus and your intention because you've done a certain thing you believe that that's going to give you power to do more.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Ultimately just you well you have heard of the poor albinos in um Africa that they're they're killed because they're considered like sacred and magical yeah and they're used for body parts rituals and practices which is mind blowing. Right that that is something that's practiced even now.

SPEAKER_05 27:43

But I mean that's the thing that that that it's wild and it's very hard for me to kind of comprehend a lot of this stuff is is who was the first person was like you know what that albino you know if I use some body parts and I can do some I do some crazy magic right or hey if I remove my tooth and I do a thing right it's gonna do it's gonna make me even more powerful.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

You could say that for anything that's invented like who decided to fry an egg like why weren't they eating them raw? I mean you could say that about how did somebody come up with um you know anticoagulant therapy or whatever it is. It's something that maybe a higher self told them or an alien. I mean who knows?

SPEAKER_05 28:29

Who knows I think I think it's I think a lot of it has been just it's been passed down. Oh absolutely and it becomes it becomes a tradition.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:36

And so people know that they need to follow this tradition because again it's like a belief system. It's the same thing as as Christianity and you're following the Ten Commandments and you're you're you're doing this or following a grimoire in your own family line.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

That is that might have been something that was somebody else's practice which you can either continue with or zhuz it up and make it your own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:58

It's right it's kind of and I and I and I also think that again in this in this day and age where everything is much more open and information is much more available I think it's much harder to um I don't want to use gatekeep is not the right word but keep a a practice or something very contained to a specific group of people.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Is it like that because it's sacred to them or is it like that because you know oh I mean you could see it on TikTok that people go overboard with certain things, right?

SPEAKER_05 29:28

Yeah well you have people that say well you can't access this deity because this deity is only for these people and it's like well their energy at the end of the day do they discriminate?

SPEAKER_02 29:36

I don't think so do they like call like cultural appropriation but for your religious can they tell between good and bad?

SPEAKER_05 29:43

No, because their energy at the end of the day energy is just energy and what your intention and and what you put behind it if you are again human and you like to label things could be used for good or could be used for evil. Correct but I don't think the energy itself it's whatever energy you put forward. Correct yeah correct yeah absolutely and so I find that I find that also very um very different and so there's this I see this this clash between the old school ways and the old school practice and the new people that are coming up that feel like hey we can do we can try we can make happen. Yeah so I think that somewhere there's going to be a meeting of the two or the they're gonna clash so hard that something comes that's going to be beneficial to both.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah I mean that would be a beautiful thing but just thinking about how Christianity has evolved over the years you went from very strict practices or are or their sermons masses whatever it was to them playing rock music in or having like evangelical moments or selling you something in the middle of your um your mass or sermon. So I think like there was an evolution and even within the Catholic church like the change from everything we we went to Latin mass we went to regular mass and then seeing that evolve into something that it is now I can't keep up at church. I mean I I went a couple years ago and I was like I do not know half of what they're doing anymore.

SPEAKER_05 31:17

Yeah I mean I I I think it's more sane I think it has to do with the fact that uh they still need people people more people they have the more energy they have the more they can continue you know to to maintain the the power structure and the influence that they have because as more people don't believe then it reduces their power and and the influence it's the same for for pretty much for pretty much anything there. And so they have no choice but to evolve because people are just not buying the thing anymore because before it was very easy to control the narrative and to be able to demonize things that weren't that weren't right. But now people are like that does why are you demonizing that that doesn't make any sense and with social media everybody's like yeah no what why are we what that makes no sense why am I thinking this way or why am I practicing this what's the reason for this right you know what's interesting it will it will be really cool to see how religions move forward with AI like how that's going to impact it.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

So if you like if you've ever tried to create like your own AI search engine like you can give rules of like restrict this open this so it's interesting in the use of AI like having these religions end up making these things up and like follow these rules well how well does ai follow those rules well I think that there were there is going to be if there isn't already a religion that is that that the deity or whatever is AI. Let's start it I'm ready let's do it.

SPEAKER_05 32:52

You heard it here first probably not it's probably already out there totally not but let's let's let's bring it back to tarot I think that there is a there's a huge um disconnect that's happening between very traditional tarot readers and newer tarot readers who actually use ai to be able to give divinations and and readings which again it is it is a complete clash of tradition right versus the new thing that's coming out and and it's it's it's very polarizing because you'll you'll see people on both sides. People some people are like this is not this is not the way you do it. I don't I don't use AI in my divination practices and you have other people it's like what's wrong with it yeah why why can't why can't we do that? Yeah absolutely so again it's it's very it's a very interesting subject and I would like to know if you guys you know if any of you guys want to comment do you guys use AI if you are a you know a practicing uh tarot reader uh you know somebody who who gives divinations or who is a fortune teller do you use ai to be able to to um practice any of your practice rituals spellcast or are you completely against it uh I I think this is it's a it's a really cool and compelling controversial topic that deserves discussion. No fat absolutely absolutely yeah 100% I I love ai I'm a huge fan huge fan um I there I think there's a lot of things about it that's scary but I am a fan of AI I am I use AI in development for sure but and and this is a big but um AI does not think right because at the end of the day AI is a is is is predictive and it's it's a bunch of mathematical equations that will give you what you think you want right and so AI will also tell you it's going to do things or say things that it hallucinates. Yeah so you always have to check the work to make sure that it's it's actually correct because sometimes AI will be like hey I I did this thing and you look at it and you're like you just moved this word let me let me give you an example of AI fail.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

So there was a meeting at work and the CEO was presenting he had AI creative slides but didn't pay attention to what everything was like every the way he had the word whore in his presentation he was mortified when he got to that slide but there was the word whore and then of course somebody chimes in well maybe you should like proofread what you're putting out there before you present it.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

It was fantastic and going back to the the the tarot and the divination stuff I think there I think there could be a case for you asking AI to be able to give you something but then you have to use your discernment right in order to be able to judge whether it's something that you feel it resonates with you and could potentially resonate with a person that you are you know giving a a reading to or not.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah I don't think I would use it for I would use it for myself. I don't think I would ever use it for something that I would use on another person or give advice to someone.

SPEAKER_05 36:11

Yeah because I think that in order for that to be successful AI needs to be sentient. Yes and if it ever gets sentient then we got bigger problems.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

We've got huge problems.

SPEAKER_05 36:20

Because you know then Terminator happens and you know then AI takes over the world or maybe we are all part of one big simulation and AI is already running this and yeah we're all just living an existence that really doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

You know how I don't know if you've ever seen ancient aliens but you know that whole thing like ancient alien theorists believe I think like we've got something going here like spiritual uh you know spiritual theorists believe yeah I mean again there's there's so many things in the world that you can like wonder and I I heard this in a podcast a long time ago and it resonated with me.

SPEAKER_05 37:00

The only truth we know is that we don't know the truth. Right? Let that sit for a little bit because everybody everything that you hear are you know people have different ideas there's different theories but that that's what they are right we don't know what the actual truth is fully but there are a lot of people that subscribe to it because that's what they wholeheartedly believe. Right. And maybe in their reality that manifests so they add more credence to it.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

I think there's a beauty in curiosity and that's why I mean I think that's what I try to live my life because I know I'm not gonna know everything and because you know everybody there's no person that knows absolutely everything out there.

SPEAKER_05 37:44

You have to be open-minded and you have to have curiosity to learn and explore and come up with your own opinions like I think the I think what's interesting about divination uh using tarot to to read cards for yourself or for other people is it also is helps you kind of start remembering who you really are because if you subscribe to the idea that you know this is just a life that of many that you've that you've lived it helps you remember that you've done some of these things before and so these things come as a second nature to you which I think is kind of it's kind of cool. So the whole idea of of practicing and getting an a good understanding of different religions different practices different philosophies I think is is really good and helps you remember a lot of things that you might not have if you hadn't have gone down that route. Correct not to say that you can become fixated on it because I think a lot of people do but then it they will uh their whole identity becomes the thing and I think at that point they stop growing.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah they can't make a decision without whatever card they pull for the day.

SPEAKER_05 38:57

Right or they're like I am the tarot reader of the century and it's like cool yeah but you're more than that. You are definitely you are more than that and so I think a lot of people kind of limit themselves when they get to a a a point where they perfect something and they really like it and they're doing amazing work that they forget about all of the other incredible things that are out there that they're so many incredible things. That's why when you talk about um people leaving tarot because they get scared or something major happens and they go to Christianity I'm like cool that's cool. You know maybe at this at this point you need a little something that's a little more structured and you need to connect with with God or what you what you believe that that currently God is and maybe it helps you escape from something that is traumatic because I think a lot of people don't it's very difficult for them to face their traumas and so instead of facing their traumas they run and they they latch onto something else because they believe that some external thing is going to help save them when that's not true you are the only one who can save you.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

A thousand percent yes you're the only one who can change your own life make your own decisions.

SPEAKER_05 40:08

And you can keep running you can keep trying diving into other things waiting for a savior waiting for a savior doing all those things but unless you actually go and you actually do the work and you confront your traumas and you and you deal with the the hard things because let me tell you something doing work doing shadow work working on yourself is very difficult and a lot of people don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

So they'd rather subscribe to something else that makes them feel good take the hard path yes it's worth it it's it's ultimately we have had some pretty significant traumas in our life and um we we're doing the work we're still doing the work still doing the work still still doing the work but um should probably pull a card. Yeah yeah I don't know if I'm feeling the sacred oracle so fill whatever one one of my best friends her name is Kali or actually we call her Kali but she um she always like hated her name because it's associated with a goddess of death and destruction so she comes from the Bible belt.

SPEAKER_05 41:05

So they didn't associate the rebirth right because you can't just be the one without the other with Kali I mean ultimately Kali is nurturing she's the mother and if you if you research Kali she will move to get rid of negative energy or that that the the idea that you can you can channel an energy like that to help you do these things I think is is pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

And that's one of the reasons why I got the deck which is I I don't know which way is the front way am I did am I doing it wrong no no you can just okay I'm gonna close my eyes and pick. I'm going with this one.

SPEAKER_05 41:41

Okay show it to the camera okay read it what does it say um first off I cannot say that name cogda uh cogda you want me to read it with no reading glasses okay you want me to read it for you please do okay a predestined series of events is due to occur according to divine timing this has been orchestrated at a high level to integrate the past of people whom you have sold contracts in this lifetime trust in the doors that close just as much as the doors that open for you as a result that's cool so that's that's kind of that's kind of cool. I mean I think it's it's really really good advice it's again if you think if you see this it's basically you know there's there's two skulls and a what is that a sickle not really a sickle I'm not an axe sickle so again it's it's one of those things that's basically like when doors close just remember that sometimes doors close for a good reason it's it's you are not meant to walk through that door or you're not ready to walk through that door. And other and if you fixate you miss the doors that are open. So just remember to keep your keep keep your mind open to possibilities and you will walk through the door that is meant for you. Yes and I have had that many times in my life yeah yes that's cool that is cool when you pull one oh you want me to pull one of course okay um I'll have to pull this get this I don't do the oh you don't do the face I mean I don't know what to do face up or down with it no I just oh we're shuffling it's a Kali card all right let's see oh oh she's pretty yeah Kali in the water with Lotus okay so this is uh Kali Mayama Mayama when a situation becomes unnecessarily complicated or confusing to your heart Kali arises spontaneously as a protective bearer of universal truth ultimately her revelations shall lead you beyond that which is deceptive or not right for you. This you are promised she protects you from that which is unworthy of your heart and seeks to constrain your spirit that's kind of neat so again again you see this card right here it's basically Kali but there's a reflection of her in the in the water which basically it for me actually is a symbol of duality so there are two sides to you right there's there's the light side and the dark side if you subscribe to those things so make sure that you don't sway one side or the other try to walk a middle line and understand that you're both and that in order for you to actually fully comprehend one side you had to have to delve into the other side.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Yes. So I'm going to pull a card for those of you that have joined us or are watching any of our little TikTok shorts or YouTube or Instagram shorts um I'm gonna pull one for our viewers oh cool I like that let's go that guy doesn't want to come out so let's go with one who's like yes choose me choose me choose me there's gonna be ooh it's so pretty it is Kalma Debbie I'll let you read that.

SPEAKER_05 44:57

Okay it's it's Kamala Debbie. Kamala thank you held with Kali's protection your heart radiates peace certainty and beauty her grace melts frustration into inspiration fatigue into replenishment and overactivity into effortless attraction Kamala is the golden pathway of divine protection and peaceful contentment. She empowers your heart to receive with the same generosity openness and grace that you express when you give you swiftly approaching sacred fruition I love that and I hope it's blessings to all of you and that's a that resonates with you.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

That is a fantastic card.

SPEAKER_05 45:36

Yeah and on that note we're done with this episode and I hope you guys enjoyed it we've got some really cool stuff planned I'm I'm I'm pretty excited and I'm glad you guys are liking our our content our podcast so far I'm glad you guys are responding to us on TikTok again if you have any suggestions on topics that you'd like to see or any feedback on on on podcasts the last episode we did that was on vampires was was pretty cool if you want to see more vampire content we can definitely go there because we're we're super fans yes uh I think we we definitely want to want to touch on some of the more supernatural creatures that are out there you know we definitely want to go into the the shapeshifters the the skinwalkers the cryptids also talk about witches I think witches are are in and of themselves multiple podcasts that we can go into and talk about different religious practices different religious practices magic is a limit I mean there's some cool cool stuff aliens yeah oh yes aliens but thank you guys so much we really appreciate it and uh tune in next time thank you bye bye