Fire Fast: How to Let Someone Go Without Guilt, Drama, or Legal Headaches

Holding on to the wrong employee too long is one of the most expensive mistakes in dentistry. Dr. Mark Dill and Toria Plank break down exactly when to fire someone, how to do it cleanly, and why protecting your whole team matters more than avoiding an uncomfortable conversation. Plus real stories from day-one fires and the one thing that will get you fired immediately in their practice.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Firing, it's kind of like uh dark, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 0:03

You have to be able to protect all your employees.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

You know what pisses me off the most? If they are intentionally doing something to hurt another person in the practice or the practice itself, but if it's intentionally harmful to the practice of to the employees, yes, they need to get off. Fire them right away. Hey guys, welcome back to Dental Guiding Point, where we talk about the problems that plague your office and provide you solutions that we've used and solutions that didn't work and work, uh, so that you guys have a shortcut to solving problems in your office. I am Dr. Mark Dill, and joining me is Miss Toria Plague, the one and only.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Hey y'all.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

I don't think there's another one in the country.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

She says there is not. I am the one and only.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

There you go. Because she's not short for Victoria. She just Toria. Okay, so today we're talking about firing people. It's kind of like uh dark, isn't it? Like, let's talk about firing people.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

You have to.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Why?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

There's some that's meant to be there, and there's some that is not.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Okay, so let's talk about this because we've we've got a pretty strong opinion on firing because we've come a long way. Like we've done it where we've held on to people too long and that sort of thing. Yeah. But what if the person's a really sweet person, a really good person?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Very willing?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

No, just sweet.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

I love you, but I'm sorry it's just not working out.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Okay. So where where do you draw the line? Like, what if they're nice? What if they come to work? What if they're dependable? What if they show up late? What if they, you know, like have an attitude or create drama? Like, what is it that you're looking for that draws the line between I can work with this person and I can't?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

There's a couple of things that draw that line, but the biggest thing that I would say is what are they intending to happen? So if they're intentionally being harmful in the practice, they're out. But you can't teach personality. You can teach skills.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah. I would say uh I love that line. You can't teach personality, you can teach skill, which goes into hiring and what we're looking for when we're hiring. Right. So we're looking for somebody, simply put, they've got good personality and they're willing. I mean, is there another trait that they need? Or I mean, we can work with anything as long as they got those two things, right? Correct. So a willing person, I mean, if you think about what goes along with that, that means that, you know, they're hardworking, they take pride in what they're doing, um, and they want to do it right.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

And the most of the time they have a good attitude about it. Yeah. There are going to be employees who, you know, throws a little tantrum. I can't sit here and say that I am perfect. I've never thrown a tantrum. There, it's on recording. You're welcome. So, but it happens from time to time. Does that make that a person a bad employee? No, not really. But what does make a person a bad employee is the ones that is intentionally trying to like undo anything that you're wanting to do.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

You know what pisses me off the most that would get someone on my bad side the fastest?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

The one thing that pisses you off the most is somebody setting somebody up for failure.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah. Um, if you are doing harm to another employee or a patient, but you don't come across that as much, I don't feel like. But if you're doing harm to another employee, that right there will get you on my bad side the absolute fastest. Other than that, I'm a mild, meek, sweet old man.

unknown 3:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Well, maybe not old. Old. I always pay attention to people's intentions. Right. Not really their actions. Sometimes their actions are wrong, but their intentions are right. Maybe an assistant is going to walk a patient up front to checkout, right? And um, but instead she just bypasses that, sets the schedule herself, sets the appointment for the patient herself next, um, and then dismisses the patient out the side door, and money owed didn't get collected. Like, that's a pretty realistic. Now I know our patients prepay, so like that wouldn't necessarily happen in our office, but I think that that's a good example. And so, you know, when you sit down and you talk to the assistant, you could jump all over them about like money wasn't collected, you scheduled them in the wrong spot, we showed you how to schedule them, all of those things, you know, and you could pretty much defeat that assistant, or you could be like, okay, so you kind of know the workflow in the office, and like we walk up front and you know, all this other stuff. Well, so tell me what you were thinking there. And they say, Well, you know, I've I've noticed that when I take my patients up front, um, it's bottlenecking and there's a long line at checkout. And so my patients are having to stand there and wait for a while. And then I am late coming back to flip my room and get it ready for the next person, late bringing that back. So I'm running the doctor behind. Not only that, but like my last patient complained about how long was it going to take before like she could get up front and then leave because she needed to get back to work. And so you start to understand that, like, so she was trying to solve a problem that existed that maybe we wouldn't have even known existed, but the solution wasn't the right solution. And it created some other problems. So then, as you do that, then you say, okay, well, I see. Let me come up with a different solution. Let's keep taking the patients up front and let's try to like, you know, do a song and a dance and entertain the patient while they stand in line. You know, so you kind of help them, you know, through it so that they, you know, um aren't invalidated um at the same time as you know, trying to solve the problem, you know, and now you're you're starting to encourage them. So intentions are right. That's like a problem solver in your office. It's just their actions are wrong. But if you jump all over them about not following your policy and not trying to understand them, then you're gonna lose that decision maker in your office forever because they're gonna think, well, I don't need to make any more decisions or try to solve problems because I get chastised for it.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Well, I think that's also a huge mistake on owners, too. Um, the ones that are fire happy, like y'all heard me. I was quick to say, like, get rid of them. But at the same time, you have the employees, employees are gonna make mistakes. They're human, right? And so you gotta be okay when they make mistakes, and then you educate on like, you know, why did they do what they did? Um, and but people are so quick to get rid of somebody because they made a mistake or they couldn't keep up. Well, see what's bogging them down, like actually investigate it. But if it's intentionally harmful to the practice of to the employees, yes, they need to get off. Drama in the office, that's where a lot of it comes from. And so you don't need that person that is like the little tornado in there taking out your employees that are good employees.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Going to agree more. I actually think that over the years, what I've figured out is if someone is doing something that's not right, it usually means that they just need more data. They need more, you know, teaching, training, education, whatever you want to call it. Most people that are working in your office, they want to do a good job. They're trying to do a good job, they're trying to solve problems. And if none of that's occurring, it's because either one, your policies aren't real clear on how you want it done, or there's a problem in the way that they're trying to solve that's caused them to rework something to try to solve a problem. And it just involves a simple conversation. Plus, I think if you go at a problem with that mentality, it causes you to relax a little bit and you're not coming at them.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Like you come at me.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Please.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

What's up?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

I would so, so take you down.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, I've seen her do it before. Not to me, but uh one of the other doctors. Uh, maybe she is known to have wrestled in high school. Maybe uh maybe there was a challenge with one of our associate doctors. Maybe, maybe she wrestled and took him down, gave him red blur on his cheek. Yeah, oh, that's so awesome.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

You made me think of an appointment. Uh made me think of a point though.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

You know what the one thing that I see issues with too, um where people are like off balance just a little bit is their training.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

And so the employees just doing things wrong because they wasn't trained properly and nobody checked out on it. But this gives y'all a um chance to go watch one of our training videos.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah. Okay. So to sum it up then, if this is fair enough to say when it comes to firing people, is number one, if they are intentionally doing something to hurt another person in the practice or the practice itself or a patient, but I don't see that as often, um, then that is fire them right away. Don't justify anything, don't like try to reason out why they did it and make excuses for them. Um, all I do is they're out. I don't care if you've been here a long, long time or if you've been here a day or a week, but most of the time these things are figured out pretty quick. Um and then other than that, all things just resort back to if they're willing and they have a good personality, then by default, every time you think you have a situation with an employee not doing a good job, by default, you're automatically thinking, okay, where has my system in training failed? Or is there a problem that has now presented itself that uh we don't have a solution for yet? All right. So now you've made up your mind that this person has to go. Now, some of you guys live in states where you've got employment laws that you have to deal with and you got to document things and that sort of stuff. So, you know, follow your laws, get an attorney if you need to. My biggest suggestion is look for an attorney that tells you how you can do something, not what you can't do. Because oftentimes attorneys will just tell you, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't. And it's like, okay, but tell me how. Like this person can't stay here, so tell me how I need to do this. But um not from like a legal standpoint, but just from a human standpoint, this would be my suggestion as far as how to let somebody go. You're just not a good fit, you know. Um, and that's it. I'm not about attacking people on the personal note on things that they can't change. Now, if it's objective things like you're showing up late every day, you've missed too much work, something like that. That's fine. Tell them, you know, tell them those reasons if you want. You know, they they probably will enter into a debate with you as to like why they missed.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah, I still don't even know that route.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

It's short and sweet. Like, you know, you're not able to like meet the requirements to be able to work here, you know, no big deal. You're not emotional, you're not nervous, you're not anything. You're just like, you know, I wish it would have worked out different, but no big deal. We'll move on, and so will they. So, um, you know, now if you're in a work-at-will state beating, you let people go for any reason at all, like you don't have to have a reason. I mean, obviously there's discrimination, like you can't let people go for those reasons. But if you're in a work-at-will state where it's just not working out, and you can let people go with no reason at all, then by all means, just let them go. You're not a good fit, it's not working out, whatever. And that's the extent of it. You don't have to enter into a big long conversation. You get all riled up, your team gets riled up, whatever the case is, you know, or they get riled up and then they want to create a scene or whatever. Also have in place somebody that's ready to go to change passwords, that sort of thing. Uh, keys to the office, changing passwords, um, you know, taking them out of group messaging like Flock or WhatsApp or whatever they may be in, uh, but somebody that can remove them out of there, locking them out of like any office emails. I do suggest that your employees have office emails if they don't. That way you don't lose any communications with that position in their emails and communication with people you do business with. Um, but have all of that ready to go right away. And then when they're packing their stuff up, somebody in the office, probably the office manager, needs to be with that person, stay with that person, um, you know, help them along or whatever. Uh, but you know, let them go.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Check sheets will be your best friend, even with that.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Like it's a check sheet.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Everything you need to achieve before it's a to-do list. Yeah. I mean, that's simple as it. It's a to-do list. And so got the key, got the password, check, check, check, make sure before that person walks out.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah. Have have bullet points on uh what needs to be done when you let somebody go, let them go, and then uh and then go ahead and move on. Um, simple as that. Um, I don't have a problem with having a replacement ready to go. If um, but uh again, if it's you know speed, then it's not a big deal. I mean, craziest thing, like we've literally had people come in and work a day. What are some what are some stories of like the day workers where they come in and work a day and then it's like we recognize right then like you're out.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

So I will tell you that, but before I tell you that, one of the best advice that you've ever told me uh when I went into management was you can't just protect one employee, you have to be able to protect all your employees. So when you're looking at firing somebody, you're looking at how is this protecting the your all your employees? So I always keep that in mind. So I did fire a girl. Um I think she worked. This is not funny, but it is funny. I think she worked a few hours. So um I did not hire her. I was out on leave. I came in, it was her first day. I came in, I walked up front, and there was a new girl and the receptionist position. And well, one, she looked like she just rolled out of bed. And I'm thinking this is what our patients are seeing when they come in, you know, hair thrown up in a whatever that's called, uh, a bun. And no, no makeup, which I don't care if they have makeup, but like can't look like you haven't even rubbed your eyes for the morning and wrinkly clothes.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

The I doo do in.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

A messy bun and I do do.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, that's it. I mean, it's a great scene, right? And so a patient came up and I'm standing behind her because I'm sitting here thinking, Who the heck is this girl? And a patient came up to the counter and she's just looking at her and she looked down at her phone and finished the text, and she's like, You can just sign in. You're done. I'm over. Um that's not that's not willingness right there, right? If to me, like if you're gonna be at a job and it's your first day, you're like trying to prove that you want that job. There was none of that.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

So yeah, that's so but so basically she just lacked basic decency, which is a form of manners and willingness.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

And with curs uh customer service, I mean there was none of that.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, like you're taking a job as a receptionist and you can't even acknowledge the person that's standing in front of you that you're getting that you know you're getting paid to to talk to. What's the what's the likelihood that she's gonna be willing to do anything else?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

I've had some I've got interesting stories. We should just like have a podcast of nothing but like our stories.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah. Stories on patients or employees.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Um well, I could do both, honestly. But um I mean, I I fired a girl on her first day because she was up front like cussing because she was having to fill out her paperwork to just get paid. And I'm like, dude, that's your paperwork to get paid. And she was like showing a whole scene about it. And I was like, yeah, this is not gonna work out. Let's just be done now.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yep, yep. So pretty extreme circumstances, guys. Uh, in in situations like that, we know that um anybody and everybody would uh you know do the same and wouldn't put up with that stuff. Yeah. Um, but where we do see it is um you guys trying to reform employees' personalities um and make them, yeah. I like I kind of uh view it this way. You kind of have a like a motivation meeting with your employee, and then you take off and you look back every so often, they're either following you or they're not, but you shouldn't be standing behind them pushing them up a hill um all along the way.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

That's the wrong heavy.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yeah, that's the that's the wrong employee for you. And don't be afraid. We kind of have like a higher fast fire fast philosophy. You know, if we meet you in an interview and you seem like you're you've got a good personality and you're willing, we're gonna take you. Now, time will tell whether that's actually true or not. That's up to the employee to prove that to us. But there's no skin off of our back bringing somebody in that presents that way in an interview. Uh, some people may say, well, what if they left a job to come work for you and stuff like that? And it's like, well, right, but like when we meet them in an interview, we're being real. We expect them to be real. So, like, if this is you and you present yourself in a way that is desirable to us, and then you come in and you're a totally different person, it's on them, not us. We're not changing, it's them that's changing, and we shouldn't feel bad about having to let somebody go that came in, you know, under false pretenses, basically.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

I mean, we want to recruit the best of the best, right? But we also can create the best of the best when it comes to skills, um, but not personality. So when you have that person who has that great personality and that willingness, I mean, you can train them to be the best of the best. But these are people that you are putting your patient's uh care in their hands. These are people that your best employee is having to work right beside each other. This is somebody you have to work right beside and hear all the bickering and the craziness and the attitude. And Dr. Dill says this, and I don't know if I can say this on on camera, but I'm going to. He said, you know, I get to choose who I work with. And that's that's real.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

So yeah, what I've always said is I get to surround myself with people that make me feel good about me. If you guys have employees that come in and butt heads with you and create all this tension in the office with other employees and stuff like that, sometimes you have employees that are great to you, and then they create all this tension with the other people that then creates this tension in the office. You got to be able to identify that and just get rid of it. And you'll see your stats and everything is gonna go way up uh by getting rid of that dead weight because it's not just that you're dragging dead weight, it's they are actually clawing at the ground and trying to slow you down. So, you know, be mindful of that.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah. You'll you'll definitely be able to tell when you're wanting to grow your business, even if it's not dentistry, if it's something else, if you want to grow your your business and that employee is like gropping about it, you know that person is not willing to grow with you. So just buckle up if you're gonna keep them.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah, yeah. And it's so much better to just go ahead and get rid of them. We end up with all these social pressures, like, you know, well, this person goes to my church, or, you know, this person is, you know, whatever, or well, there's no good people out there. This is just kind of the best that exists and stuff. And I can promise you, I had all of those same like thoughts. But when you're kind of forced to have to go through it a time or two, and then you come out on the back end and you're like, that was false all along. I should have never believed that. I should have gone ahead and made that move faster. And so The more experience I have, the more I realize and recognize things quicker, I move faster, and I don't have a bunch of like false beliefs. I actually know what to be true. So I don't care if you're in a big town, a small town, you know, middle town. It doesn't matter. It you know, we all think that we have very unique circumstances as dentists and our state and our laws and this and that and everything prevents. And it's easy to have a victim attitude. I've talked to a lot of dentists with victim attitudes. And I mean, there's been times in my career where I've had a victim attitude, but somewhere along the way, you kind of snap out of it and you say, Enough is enough. I'm gonna take control and I'm going to be in charge of this. Despite I will find a way to be able to, you know, work within the laws, but still be able to run my very own business and not have my employees running me. Yeah. All right, guys. So if you got more questions about firing people, you can contact one of three people, me, Torya, or your attorney. If it's legal, contact your attorney. Ask them, you know, the questions about your law in your city, because we're not attorneys. I am a dentist. She is a master operator, she's the chief operating officer. We salute her. Anyways. Um, but uh like, subscribe, and send us comments if you have questions. If you leave your contact information, we will even reach out to you guys. Yeah, we do that. Um, but leave us comments on other topics or other questions you may have, even if it's not related to firing. I mean, it could be questions on training or something like that. Look at our other videos because we we've made a lot of videos that answer a lot of questions when it comes to the operations of dental practice. And the best part is we're in the trenches with you guys. Um, we actually live it every single day. So the advice we're giving you isn't some theoretical BS, it's real deal stuff because I'm Dr. Deal. No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

And he's keeping it real.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Try, try. Keeping it cheesy. She calls me a cheese head often. So it's fine. Yeah. So, anyways, um, but send us comments. Uh, we'd love to be able to interact with you. We have nothing to sell you, we have no subscriptions, nothing like that. Um, we're just throwing out content. If you guys like it, we'll keep making more of it. All right, see you in the next video. See ya.