Hiding Assets in a Divorce

Like all episodes of the Jenga: On The Record podcast, Steve and Lorie take a lighthearted and entertaining approach to educating listeners on the legal and emotional aspects of divorce.

In this episode, family law attorney Steve Fatula and Certified Mediator and Divorce Coach Lorie Wood discuss one of the most contentious issues in family law: hiding assets during divorce proceedings. From undisclosed bank accounts and hidden income to cryptocurrency, business interests, and suspicious spending patterns, they explore the tactics some spouses use to conceal assets and the potential legal consequences that can follow.

Whether you're currently navigating a divorce or simply want to better understand your rights, this episode offers practical insights, real-world examples, and important considerations to help you protect yourself throughout the process.

Join Steve and Lorie as they simplify complex topics and remind listeners that knowledge is power—especially when it comes to safeguarding your financial future.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Jenga on the record. I'm Laurie Wood. As always here with my partner in crime and co-host, Steve Fatullah. Morning, everybody. Today we're going to pull another block. Steve's turn, I think. Mine was the magic room.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

I almost knocked this whole tower down.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Now, if you hear a clunk, Steve has is pulled a block. Oh, nice job. Yeah, we're gonna have to put some like requirements at what the hell do we need?

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Alright, we're gonna make our own. Alright, ready? If you had to stash a giraffe away from the government, where would you put it and why?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Why would I hide a giraffe from the government? Are giraffes illegal to have? Well, we might have to Google that. I was gonna say Is there like a unicorn giraffe? I don't know. That is the weirdest question I've ever heard. Who's making this stuff? We're just gonna make our own. This is so silly. So would you use an elephant?

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Alright, so what's the hiding things? Let's talk about hiding things. Hiding assets.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Hiding assets. Giraffes are assets. All right. Alright, so if you had to hide assets from your soon-to-be former spouse, where would you hide them? No, you can't give that information. No, because you can tell about the ramifications.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, I think that I'm I'm thinking through this giraffe question, too. It's pretty crazy. I don't understand why anyone would ask anybody this question. Or what what what's my thought process? Where I'm hiding it is a size issue. Needs to be outside. I just take it back to the zoo. I'm not dealing with this. Did the giraffe commit a crime? Oh. Giraffe on the run. Oh, now we're getting out of work. What did the giraffe do? All right, so hiding stuff. Don't do it. All right. So occasionally we do.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Unless it's smaller than a giraffe.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah, we deal with people hiding assets. We deal with people hiding dogs. So I guess, you know, this could lay itself if someone had a a zoo or pet giraffe. What a dumb question.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

That is the I I'm trying to ask myself, am I awake, number one? Yeah. And had I been drinking? Because those that's the silliest question. Do you want to pull a different block or are we going to run with hiding assets?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

I think we're going to run with hiding assets. Because we're dealing with it now. And I mean we have so we represent uh people with with all sorts of financial things to deal with. Uh simple divorces with with minimal assets and minimal conflicts. And um, you know, those are occasionally fun to just help people through. But the ones that that tend to be coming are the high complexities, the things that are disappeared, then the The self-employed. The self-employed, yeah. A lot of the business owners, um and it's probably I don't know, it's it's hiding an asset is probably not happening in more cases. It's misrepresenting the asset, undervaluing the asset.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Forgetting by, you know, just not realizing that you had that retirement plan through a former job 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

We've had we've had the retirement plan, it's a big one because people do forget, quote unquote. We had one that we just finished a whole divorce and then it showed up. Our client or the other side. The other side. Oh. Uh so we were able to get him his half, and then she had to pay sanctions upwards of like 15 grand for hiding it. So like the judge was pissed.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

And ignorance is no excuse. It's you can't say I didn't mean to.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Correct. Like it it's if you knew and you kept saying you didn't have it and we find it, and that's real. We've had cases where where the husband has accidentally put two, a couple hundred thousand dollars in a son's account.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Oh, it just fell into the out of his pocket and into that occasion. It was crazy, yeah. I just happened to find it.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yeah. So that's something that has occurred on on more than one occasion where we have additional accounts under third party names. Uh we've had people uh again, it seems to always be an accident, accidentally give hundreds of thousands of dollars of property to third parties to hold, not knowing that they're not allowed to do that, which shocking. It's shocking. Uh, and involves us having to go subpoena third parties and to depose them and bring them in front of us and and yell at them a bunch. And most people, weirdly enough, don't actually want to be involved in the fraud and are quick to give everybody up when they go, I'm I'm not going to jail for contempt stuff, which you know could or could not happen.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

And it's a testament to the firm and to you to find these things. That's not easy.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

It's it's not easy. And I think the the the big asterisk is it's also not cheap. No. So, like, we we don't want to chase down a five thousand dollar thing, respectfully, it's gonna cost you ten.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Right. We don't want to go on blind expeditions that there's gotta be something that prompts the thought.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Yeah, and we we've unfortunately I mean not unfortunately, our job is to do what we're told to do, like to a reason, right? So we've had cases where a spouse will say, I know we have this, go find it. And then you're like, Well, it's worth 10 grand, are you sure? And then they're like, Yeah, go, here's 10 grand, I want you to prove it, because it means more to prove a thing. You can usually find that's an emotional. But that's not usually something there's value to. So you have to make sure that one is very clear that they know this is not a net gain, this is more of an emotional win. And they go, Yeah, well, I still want to know. And all right. Sometimes that's priceless, sometimes it's priceless, and sometimes that's what they've always cared about. So that part's real.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

I want to go back just a little bit because I want to maybe talk about how these are hidden because I've got clients coming in, and they're very amicable, and we're doing our one-day divorce program with them, and they're super happy. The only thing that they have to do paperwork-wise is complete their disclosures. Yeah, and one form you list all of your assets and debts. And they can bring it the same day and exchange it with each other, but I generally like to have them do it in a peaceful place beforehand. You're less apt to miss things. Yeah, I got them back last night by email, and there's one asset listed, and it's an otherwise blank form. So I will be, while I'm drafting the documents, telling them, listen, I know that you've accumulated more than just this one thing. So let's do a more thorough completion of this form, and then we'll exchange it. Because if it's by omission, if they're purposely hiding something, and this divorce g gets completed and the other person finds out that's what you're talking about, is when it can happen.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Yeah, there I mean, there's the ramification. So the the story that that's always used, and I I think it must be the the case that illustrates this for every attorney that's ever gone through law school, is there was a wife that bought a lottery ticket, and I don't remember if it was like through a uh co-worker or something, like where there was a group, it doesn't matter. Bought it, had it, held it because it was a winner. Waited until the divorce was done, cashed it in, he found out. It was like a million-dollar ticket or something like that. So so a big prize that that person was trying to hold. Well, of course it was addressed in court eventually. She ended up losing her half and then having to pay, I believe it was like 200 grand in like attorney fees.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

So he got the whole ticket.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

He got the whole thing instead of the half, plus she paid a big old penalty for what she did. And like that's the case that you're supposed to scare everybody with because the reality is the court's expecting everybody to be honest, which is you know, tongue in cheek because we're in the middle of a divorce and we're probably in the divorce because nobody was honest. Like, that's right, just kind of how we get the way.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

You can't trust your spouse because if you did, you'd still be married. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah. So you have to you're still required to be trustworthy, and you're still supposed to be treating each other with these certain fiduciary uh responsibilities where basically you're treating them like a business partner and everything's supposed to be on the up and up, and for most cases it's on the up and up-ish, right? Like most most things are there.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

90%.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

90%. Uh but but uh people do forget things, so if it's an accidental forget, then the court will just simply split it. Might charge you a little bit for time to get there. But if it's a willful omission where you're someone's hiding it, purposely hiding a million dollars, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

She's gotta kick herself till the day she dies.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

And and I think that's the court's point. And that went that was appealed and that went everywhere. So, like that, that was a big deal, and it costs a lot of money. Uh, but you know, you should have disclosed it. And the court said, You did this on a big scale, so you're gonna get big hit and you're gonna be the example for everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

This is how I make because nobody wants to fill out these forms. No, they're a pain. And they're eye-opening. People don't realize how much money is going in versus how much going out. I've had so many people going, Oh my god, I didn't realize after completing these. But I tell them, listen, we're doing a one-day divorce because you want this over with. I know it's a pain in the neck, but you have to complete these forms, otherwise it can get set aside. I'm not even telling them that you know, half the asset is gonna be ripped away. But then you have to do this over again. Oh, yeah. So just complete the forms.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Well, that's we had a case that came to us uh years after the divorce was done. Because of that, he didn't disclose uh the business in the way you're supposed to disclose the business.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

What does that mean? Say more.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

So no one put it on the piece of paper. So even though everyone in theory knew it existed, that's not necessarily what the courts are requiring because some people may not know exactly what the other person thinks they know. So the court wants to go, hey, you are all required to identify, value, provide documents, etc., and exchange. Got it. And that's most of them. So that didn't happen. So let's say that it uh let's I'll make up a date. In 2020 is when the divorce closed, and in 2021 it got set aside because this thing wasn't disclosed. So within a couple months.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Because there is a time rule. Because there's time rules, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:43

So there's limits, and and the courts again, the the purpose is because the court's trying to get everyone to disclose everything at once, split everything at once, so that everything is done. So there's finality to all of this crap. So you have timelines, if there's errors or things, you can go back and fix stuff, but generally, you know, after a certain period, it's it's over. So this was one where she had filed to set it aside and and the court agreed it was not done properly. So that starts the matter. And now we just reopen this issue. Well, then we get an expert involved because now we have to value this thing. Weirdly enough, people get real pissed off when they get caught doing something or told the wrong. So obviously the relationship starts to spiral. Right. So now, while it's not directly involved, custody becomes a bigger thing. So where custody wasn't and everyone was good, now everyone's kind of getting petty. So when we got involved, it was about a year and a half after that. So a motion had been set regarding the valuation, so it had been set aside. We came in, it had been uh litigated to a point where it was going to go to a trial because they disagreed as to what the value was, which is a problem because it's a pain, because now you have two experts involved, so they've each now spent a considerable amount of money.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

I was gonna say the costs are just phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Right. So we're set for I believe it was like a two-day trial, maybe a three-day trial. And let's say we're in 2021. Well, we go to our first trial date, which would be in 2022, and then that is continued because the judge is not available. Something happened. All right, so it gives us a new date, about six months down the road. Well, at that date, something else had happened. So we didn't go. Oh my god. It was continued for about two years. Right? And and it's the craziest, what we've seen is like the cases that are there's some cases that just seem doomed. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

No matter what you do when you touch them, it just turns to crap.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

It just and it doesn't like you you can't predict the judges sick that day. You can't predict there's five ex parte's that take the whole like you can't. They just have bad juju. The cases yeah. So by the time we got there, which was was years after when the marriage happened, years. So the values of things are they don't kind of matter anymore. So now you're going back in time for things that it's just bizarre. So after about two days of trial, it was very clear because at this point it had been a year, so other things are getting added to the trial. So now the trial's like a compacted three days. Well, day two, we finish, and the other side gets rid of the attorney. Just in the middle of the trial, which I've I've never seen. So then that's like what? Like they represented themselves, they represent themselves, which changes everything because there's no rules. It's like a Wild West scenario where you're you're going, What what the hell's happening? And you're objecting, and like the courts are just like uh yeah, but we're gonna let him go because he's by himself and doesn't know what's going on. Then you're just like, geez, and they give them a lot of leeway. There's a lot of things that can happen there. So then that turned the three-day trial into a seven or eight-day trial spread over another year, and we were released around day seven because they had expensive so much of their money, and the trial that was starting off a single issue had included about a dozen things by the end, including someone getting remarried and creating a whole different level, including someone having a child and creating a whole new level because something wasn't disclosed. So, like a thing that probably was valued around 15 grand. I was wondering what the cost of that thing was $150,000 each to fight over a thing that had to been done in the beginning would never have been an issue because it's it's nominal at that point.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

It would probably gone you're the person who disclosed it more than likely.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Correct. Yeah. And it would have gone with the kids, it would not have brought up all this hate. Because once that part got resolved, the animosity calms back down. Because the court being in court sets your mind differently because you're constantly looking for a leverage point. You're looking for ways to win in a thing that is not a win or loss, but it is what happens.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

It is a chess game that you're playing in court. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

So you keep adding more to the to the game. Rarely does it stay one issue. It becomes hell, we're already in a trial, so we might as well bring this issue up, bring this issue up, bring and it becomes such a beast that it really becomes like an expensive just mess. And I mean, like I've never had cases where you just you're prepping for a trial going, I don't feel like this is happening today. Well, I've had those cases. You can feel that too, actually. That's very much the same thing. It's the cases that just get pushed down that little hill, just seem to spiral and go and roll, and snowball gets huge, and you it just like the world's not ready for it to be done yet. And you just kind of have to hang on and go, how do we minimize this? How do we do it? And how do we but there's cases where with hidden assets, and then the anger that comes with hidden assets, the cases just seeming to be.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Because if they're hiding this, then they've got to be hiding more.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Correct. And some are, right? Like some are. But you know, the ones that I think always come to mind when it's hiding assets, it's it's the business owners that are running on cash, right? Because that's a different thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

100%, and and collecting support or even setting support is such a problem.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

And it's always I think I always hear the same comment. Well, they're running cash, that's not fair. And my response is always, well, it's not fair, but you guys played this game, so we're talking about hiding the giraffe from the government. You guys hid the giraffe from the government for many years, right, enjoying this tax-free world you lived in. And now they and now you're getting burned by it. Move the giraffe, you don't know where the giraffe is, and you're pissed off. And that's that's the stuff that that is the hardest to explain because I can't really find cash. I can point to where it probably is, I can I can tell you what probably happened, but rarely is it in the safe when I say, Judge, I need an order to see that safe, because weirdly enough, they're standing next to me running home to empty the safe. Like there are some things you can do around people, but we've done those too where we've done ex partes where we don't give notice and we're we're approved to do that. We get orders to open up safety boxes, and there's nothing in there anymore.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Because people are told not to keep it and they they know you're coming. Let me ask you this because that is over my career. Um, people have come to me for wage assignments for support or to modify support, and you know, he's self-employed and he works under the table, or she's self-employed, and gets cash income. And and while you've enjoyed this, like you said, for a large part of your life, and your safe was probably full of stuff that you didn't want the government to know about. What would you tell people, if anything, to prepare in advance of a separation when that is in fact the case?

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Yeah, the it's an easy answer. It's prepare for the court to say I'm sorry, because you're not getting anything. If it's an income issue, higher vocation valuation, don't even bother fighting over what cash is there or not. You can you can if you have proper PLs, you can do a lot. You can you can show where money is going.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

But there's always two sets of books.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Right, there's always two sets of books. And it's you gotta spend a lot of money to prove a lot of things that if they're making more than 20 grand a month in cash on as profit, sure, maybe it's worth doing. But if it's five or six, it's just do a vocation evaluation, get someone to come in and say you can make 80 grand. That's gonna be the same thing they're doing now, and you're gonna save a lot of money. And that's something you're gonna do. That's good advice.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

There's there's a couple of things. My last one-day divorce again, very sparse assets and debts, and I heard them discussing her job and her retirement plan, and I'm looking.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Yeah, nothing there.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

And there's nothing. And I said, I just overheard you. You got a promotion and you have a retirement plan with this company, but it's not on the document. She goes, Oh no, I told him.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, doesn't get it.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I go, when did you tell him? She goes, last night. I go, well, how about we write it down and then hand it to them? And it's just little things like that where you think you've done it, yeah. They know about it, but they're the first person to get amnesia when it works for them.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

And it's weird because the court can't do anything. No, because like even if the person's like, Oh, I might have known, the court's like, look, legally it wasn't disclosed. And maybe we don't punish you that much, but this thing's still happening. And we've had lots of people that are like, No, no, we agree, I get mine, they get theirs. Okay, well, theirs must be disclosed, yours must be disclosed. The details must be there so that the court doesn't go later. Sorry, uh, they got theirs because they disclosed it, and yours is still up for grabs, and you guys are gonna split yours. Because that's happened on many.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Oh, yeah. I don't have a retirement plan, they do. Oh my head. Yeah, so those are the big ones the retirement plans and the business cash.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah, the the business is the hardest because you can you can move money through a business in so many different ways. Yeah. And to say that you've just spent 10 grand on your attorney and now you have spent 10 grand on this third party is a lot for people to swallow.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

It's a lot for people to smile. It's a terrible financial climate to have to do that in. Yeah. Um, you certainly should weigh whether it's worth it to do that or if there's other options.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

But it's yeah, like your attorney should have some ballpark in their head. Like if you're looking at a business and for 10 years it's brought in a hundred grand in total gross, uh move on. It's just not it's not a billion-dollar business. If you're dealing with a business that brings in millions of dollars and you don't have a clue about how it's operated, probably worth 10 grand to go figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

And that's a forensic accountant. That's somebody who's gonna look at every look, look, and cranny, every nook and cranny. They look and every look. Yeah, look and every look. Yeah. That's when my coffee's running out. That's what you could tell.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

You could yeah, you can. You get some shots of espresso, we'll be all right. But that's no, that's it. You hire the people that that's their job. Right. And they do a good job, and there's there are people that do a good job. And then unfortunately, there are some that don't find anything because maybe they weren't doing anything wrong.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

So you've applied this lie to them, but they were honest, and and sometimes unfortunately, it it does burn you.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Well, we had the one case we always talk about at Second Saturday is we had a a client, we represented mom, and dad earned about a about three hundred grand a year, so a good income. Their house was underwater, no retirement accounts, uh, credit cards were maxed out.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Where does all their money go?

SPEAKER_02 20:28

So no cash in no cash anywhere. So immediately I see that as red flags going, well, he's had this job for three years, so we're talking about like a million bucks should be stashed somewhere, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Right, something they bought a lot of clothes.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Well, so I I asked her, I'm like, any idea? Does he have a mistress? Like, this is a lot of cash to disappear. Right. No, no, he's hiding it. Okay, I don't know your life. We'll do cursory review, we'll pull some bank statements. Let's figure out if we can figure out what's going on. Because it wasn't a business owner, he was W2'd. I yeah, I think he I think he sold like insurance. So like it's all documented stuff. Yeah. Right, but it's all documented stuff. So like he's not he's not hiding his income, it's coming through a check. So the income part's pretty clear where it's going. No, it's I don't know. So let's look at bank statements. And she was fine, but you know, he's hiding it all, let's figure it out. Okay, so we pulled a couple years of bank statements, and every month the money's just going. And I'm like, there's no way he's not having an affair. And so I brought her in, and I was like, look, this guy is going out to eat at every I mean, every restaurant in this area. So not like McDonald's for meals, like a two, three hundred dollar meal every meal. And I was like, so he could be doing it as business meals, he could be doing it, but it like to me it screams mistress affair, trying to show off right.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

If she's stumped as to where the money's going, you're not thinking she's there.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

No, and she goes, Oh, no, we that's where that's us. I'm like, Well, it can't be you. That's every single night. Yeah, we'd go out to eat every night. And like once she verified the last twelve months, I'm like, Well, I found where all your money went. She goes, Where? I go, You ate it. And she was so pissed. So pissed. So so pissed because she wanted me to go get money. And there wasn't money. There's support money, sure. But it's gonna change. Because it's it just it was just basic math. Okay, well, here's just 300,000, and and here goes a hundred thousand in taxes anyway. So here's two hundred thousand, and every month you're spending fifteen grand. So you add that up, and the numbers were the numbers. Like it was maybe the m my math right now is off, but like the numbers matched pretty close to what he was doing. She wasn't working. So like there's no hidden money, and I'm just like, there's none here.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

That's what when people fill out the income and expense declaration, they are shocked at the income versus out. Most a lot of people, which surprises me, don't even know what they make per month, let alone the total of their monthly expenses. My last one-day divorce clients, they are both registered nurses.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Nurses seem to be definitely the worst with math.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

They're making bank. They're each pulling in a minimum of twelve thousand dollars a month. Yeah. They're lovely people. Their credit cards are maxed. They owe $60,000 in taxes. They house is going in short sale, if not for nothing. Yeah. They have nothing.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah. That's what so when I started in this world, one of the first things I learned was how much everybody is just leveraging for appearance. And it was shocking because we would I mean, Roseville is an affluent place. Granite Bay is an affluent place. We are housed in a very rich area. Lots of Maseratis that go by, you'll see Lamborghini, like things that don't match. But it's being delivered to Mark. So when I moved here, I mean we have the gallery. I mean, like, there's millions of dollars that come and come and out of here. But when you start looking at the divorces, most people are trying so hard to live a life that that they don't shouldn't try to emulate, and they're broke as could be doing it.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

And they're miserable.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

And they're miserable. And that's what's leading to like where we're at going, like, guys.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Which leads to divorce.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Nobody really wants the things you're buying, but everyone thinks you need to have it because everyone wants it, but no, nobody wants it.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, it's stuff doesn't make you happy. It appears to give you the perfect life, but it really doesn't. And what did they say? I heard this way back when every most people are one missed paycheck away from homelessness.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

That's probably true.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

And it's extremely and I told listen, I love clothes. I I used to revel in shopping. Not revel, that's the wrong word, but I enjoyed clothing and certain things, and I can't get rid of it fast enough now. I just feel way down and overburdened with too much stuff. And all I can think about is how much money could have been in my bank if I didn't. Yeah. And I think if we stop placing such a value on material things and more of a value on ourselves or the people in our lives, or, you know, a picnic in the park instead of a seven course, the cost of eating out these days. And I don't get three DoorDash deliveries a freaking day. And my niece begged borrowed and steeled to get into a house she can't afford, and they eat out every meal, morning, noon, and night, and wonder why they struggle to pay their mortgage every month.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

We we've done it here because respectfully, I think we pay our employees well. And every one of them has an issue. Not every one of them, that's another state for who's here, but like we've had in the past, we've literally brought in financial planners to speak to our team because they were spending more than they made weekly. And you would be like, hey, DoorDash, while convenient, is bad. Sorry, everybody, it's not a good idea. Eating out every day is bad. I don't do it. And like, and I and I make more than you. And the reality is like, because it's not smart, the $20 sandwich adds up every day. And it's it's not a good thing. And that's how people look at it.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

They look at it as the single $20 thing. Yeah. Not the accumulation of the $90 that it's cost you throughout the day. Correct. Right? It's math. As fans would say, casino math.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Casino math is very interesting. But we've seen it here where people will order two or three times from a DoorDash or something. And they're just like, yeah, it's only a couple bucks more. And you're like, but it's it's not. The prices are all raised. The the convenience, you're paying for convenience, but it's what's the convenience? Like any more.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

It's like your Verizon phone bill. There's like five different taxes that you don't know what they are. Oh, yeah. That's the DoorDash thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Oh, yeah. And like a $10 meal will cost you $20 just to get it here. 30. You're right. Because then they have mandatory tips.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

And then if you don't have mandatory tips, and then if you give a rating of five star because your dasher was really nice, then they want you to tip more.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Really?

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

I don't have any of those apps. And maybe it's because I don't know how to use them, which is probably fair. I just won't do it. I hate them. I hate them.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

No, the the people who will it doesn't matter what you make, it matters what you spend.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

That's you know, obviously it's nice to make money, but it's really the spending.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

It goes so fast, and it's so easy to do it. Like you can just watch a bank account, even if you're frugal, because you're not always frugal. Like it's fair.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

You can you gotta work hard to have a little enjoyment. We were coming back from out of town and we were picking up one of our dogs from grandma's, and we wanted to bring her donuts or something nice to say thank you. We didn't even get a dozen donuts, we got six donuts, which were so good. I was just like, oh my god, I haven't had a donut in forever. So bad. Don't go in the other room. Oh, balls. Yeah. Um, and two coffees, and it was like 48 bucks. I'm like, what? Yeah. And we were in the hood to get this. I thought prices certainly be more reasonable in the hood.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

It's amazing the cost raise everywhere. It's so everything. Because like I do, I do work grocery shopping, so I know what things cost, and I only buy things on sale because I think I was raised in a spot that if there's not a coupon, you're not getting it. And that has been ingrained. Very I love that. It's uh I hate coupons. I hate them. I hate that feeling. But when they're like, it's just weird. Like it, I don't like having a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

But they're such a markup anyway. But now the thing that's nice is most places and I hate this that you have to download a freaking app for this, and then do you can only if if if they just say this one's on sale, then it's just easier that way.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

But then they don't get your data because they want data. Everyone wants data.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Everywhere you go, put in your phone number. No. Do you have an email? No.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

I had to completely step away from an email that I had for my former business because there would be 120 spam emails every day because I've had it since the inception of the internet. And I don't, I can't because I can't find the important stuff. So I had to set up a completely new one. I don't know what's happening tonight. I don't care. Yeah, let it burn. I'd let my phone and my computer burn if I didn't have to use them for work. I thought about getting a landline. I want one with an old-fashioned phone.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

I think I'm gonna go get one and just put it in the house and get it. For safety, you have to have one. Just something, man.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

If your phones both go down like Vance and I, we need separate plans because the likelihood of both plans going down is means the world's on fire.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

But a landline, because the other day I couldn't find my phone. Vance wasn't home, there was nothing I could do. I mean, nothing.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Yeah. And with a landline, you have to know people's numbers. And if you're stuck somewhere without a phone and you have to say, can I call my spouse? I mean, I know my daughter's number, my husband's number, even my sister and mother number, but most people don't. Oh no. They just push the picture. Correct. And so with a landline, you will have to know the number. Or have a phone book.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

And landline's probably gonna be faster than like six people using them. So you know what?

SPEAKER_00 30:14

How cool are old-fashioned phones? I've got a thing.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

I'll have to find one. It's just we gotta go backwards in time.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I'm gonna go to the antique trove and get you an old-fashioned phone.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Those things, the kids love those. They're so expensive.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, you gotta find the right one.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Well, there you go. You gotta be you're worth it. You gotta I appreciate it. You gotta find that good bargain.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

You gotta find something that you use will come out of a box.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Yeah, I know. It's still in a box right now.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

That's a whole nother find the giraffe kind of day.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Yeah. Topic. Well, you we tie the giraffe in.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

We tie the giraffe in. I I would have picked a monkey, but giraffes are probably harder to hide. I don't even know how you're gonna get a giraffe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

We're gonna look into if they're legal. We'll let everybody know.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Can you imagine a giraffe wearing a mask committing a crime? Or just thinking of the gun.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

I would I would get popcorn and sit back and watch it.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Oh my gosh. We've got a felon giraffe, a crack cocaine shark, and what was the uh not the it wasn't the possum. There was another one a beaver or something. Yeah. Crazy. Kind of fun to think about.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

That's fun to think about it. Don't give uh animals drugs.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

No. Yeah. I mean, I would say keep them for yourself, but don't use them for yourself. Yeah, drugs are bad. Drugs are bad. It makes you order DoorDash. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

That's the new slogan.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

All right, guys. We're gonna call it quits because, well, I've greatly enjoyed it. We've got other things we've got to get done today. Yeah, that's probably fair. Um, next time we'll pull a block, but we might hit the record button so you can hear the crazy that ensues before we get on air. It's enjoyable. We hope you have a great day. Be kind to others, and more importantly, be kind to yourself and save some money. Eat at home. Have a good one, everybody.