The Champagne Room
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The Champagne Room
Author Téa Mutonji visits The Champagne Room | Lap Dances, Sobriety, Writing & more
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Welcome to The Champagne Room, Téa!
Téa Mutonji is a celebrated poet and fiction writer based in Toronto. Her debut collection of short stories, Shut Up You’re Pretty was nationally recognized, winning both the Edmund White Debut Fiction Award and the Trillium Book Award. Téa received the Jill Davis Fellowship at New York University where she is completing her MFA in fiction. She is currently celebrating her debut novel- My Person and balancing being Toronto's sweetheart.
Téa gets interviewed by dancers Andrea and Ariel - will she say yes to a lap dance?
Coming up.
SPEAKER_05He was like falling in love with me, and I was falling in love with them. Sometimes I might slip up that I'm from the dirty schwa. And now I'm in my second book. Oh my god, I need to change my legal name. I need to dye my hair blonde. I need to disappear. Would you like a lap dance?
SPEAKER_01You know what time it is. Welcome to the champagne room.
SPEAKER_02Guess who's in the champagne room tonight? It's author of Young Diva, Tayama Tonji!
SPEAKER_01Tayama Tanji is a Scarborough-raced author born in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. While on the path to law school, she won a reward for emerging talent and has never looked back. She's currently working on her upcoming novel. My person and balancing being Toronto's sweetheart. Welcome to the champagne room, Tea.
SPEAKER_06So hi. Is this your first time at the club? No, actually. I've been on a first date at the club before. Yeah. Okay. Tell us more.
SPEAKER_05It was like this guy I had a crush on for 10 years, and he was going through a breakup, so I suggested that we heal that heartbreak. Wow. That's what I knew. Your suggestion? Okay, let's go. We had never been, and I was like, that's wild. Let me take you. And it was amazing. We got a private dance. Yeah. It was so good. Yeah. I fell in love with the dance. More than he was. Amazing. He was like falling in love with me, and I was falling in love with them.
SPEAKER_06Wow. He never called me again. Oh goodness. Well, after two weeks. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_07What was it?
SPEAKER_06Okay, we don't have to say.
SPEAKER_07We don't have to say. You can tell us later.
SPEAKER_06Okay, well. Welcome to the champagne room. Thank you for having me. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.
SPEAKER_07Taya, you are probably one of the most talented people I know. Thank you. And I'm very curious about when you knew you wanted to be a writer.
SPEAKER_05I don't think I knew I wanted to be a writer per se. I knew I wanted to tell stories. I I was trying to be an actor for most of my childhood. Yeah. I had a Sears agent. Okay. Oh wow. Audition for the Grassy, didn't get it twice. Rejected both times. Oh gosh. Um, rude. But at some point in my 20s, I would get all these auditions, and I was living in Scarborough, and no one was like hiring me. And I would go home and I would write about it, be like, You don't deserve to have a good run, and I hope the show fails. You curved that. Yeah, and then I just kept writing. Not the grassy per se. Okay, okay. I I did forgive the grassy because they did hire really good people. And I I like the show, so they're not on my bad list. You did watch every season. I was very serious about it.
SPEAKER_07Very serious situation. Did you watch the recent documentary about it?
SPEAKER_06I didn't, but I really want to.
SPEAKER_05Soon. You should. I will.
SPEAKER_07Shout out Lisa Rideout, uh, director of that film. It's quite eye-opening if you're a fan of the show.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god, I'm excited. I think my personality kind of was made because of like Mandy from The Grassy. I I wanted to be her. Wow. Is that weird? No. So uh did you grow up in Scarborough? Yes and no. Okay. Technically until the age of 13. I was born in Congo. Then I moved to Scarborough in like when I was nine-ish. Okay. Um, but then we moved to Oshawa, where I did high school. Oh. And then when I was 18, I moved back to Scarborough as an adult. Wow. Why did you choose that? I didn't. I applied to UFT. And then it was like Scarborough campus. Totally. And I was like, what's that? Let's find out. And then I was like, you know what? Let's let's go back. And I started like renting student housing for like my entire 20s. Well, I was like a Scarborough person at that point.
SPEAKER_03You were a Scarborough girl back then.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, very seriously.
SPEAKER_03Do you take it with you?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but I can't claim Oshawa, you know.
SPEAKER_07It's claiming Oshawa. Someone's gotta be claiming Oshawa. Oh, Trevor Must me. Someone's claiming the Nano. It's Oshua being.
SPEAKER_03I love to the 905.
SPEAKER_07100%. We love the dirty schwa.
SPEAKER_05Sometimes I might slip up that I'm from the dirty schwa. Oh and then I have to allow it, you know?
SPEAKER_03Gotta allow it. Yeah, I say obviously because I'm a Scorbow girl. Yes. Everybody else knows this. I love Scorbow. Um, how do I describe this area vaguely? True. Actually, that's that's a good one. We can skip that. Um Middle. Okay. Yeah, they do. I see you. My dad's from West Hill. Gotcha. Um, was so that's like, do you know? I know. Don't worry about it.
unknownI know.
SPEAKER_03You know, you know. I know. Gorgeous. What part of the city are you in now?
SPEAKER_05I am on King Street area.
SPEAKER_03Very central. Yeah. Yeah. And do you love that?
SPEAKER_05Someday. Okay. I don't like leaving my house. And because I like my inside of my my apartment, I love. But if I have to leave my house, I like it a little bit less. I get it. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_07I want to go back to the fact that you were a U of T Scarborough student and the fact that very recently you were a U of T Scarborough.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, writer in residence. Writer in residence. What was that like? It was so good. It was really, first of all, I get lost on campus all the time. Which I think is says a lot about who I am as a person. Because as a student, 10 years that I was in school, um, I know. I'm a I'm a leave.
SPEAKER_03No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_05I just was like, I would get lost all the time. Yeah. So I felt very I just couldn't get it together. No. Which I love. I feel like that's a part of my lore that makes me really proud of who I am because I'm just like, you know, proudly a messy person. So being back on campus, the things I love the most is how much of myself I was sort of like rediscovering. I know that sounds so like, you know, but I really mean it. It was really nice, and the campus welcomed me with like, you're home, and everyone kind of had that energy. Yeah. So that was really nice. Um, the students are lovely. Yeah, it's been an amazing experience. I have no negative complaints except the fact that I like writing too much.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05What does that mean? Oh, sometimes when I had to get up to go do something other than writing, I was kind of upset. Oh, and love that.
SPEAKER_06No. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I stay home. I write now. I'll go out there.
unknownOh, I love that.
SPEAKER_05That's adorable. Apparently I'm boring. I only like writing.
SPEAKER_03No, no, definitely not. You're not boring at all.
SPEAKER_07That's the best thing in the universe.
SPEAKER_03I think that's a funny thing to say because people expect um, if you're an artist, if you're creative, you are so interesting, you're zany, you're out there, blah blah blah. But also, like so much of it is in here and then translated onto paper, canvas, or whatever it is, that sometimes to other people, because you're in your own world, you're kind of fucking boring.
SPEAKER_05I know.
SPEAKER_03Do you do you find that or no?
SPEAKER_05I'm I've definitely become more boring because I'm writing, because I'm so interested in what I'm working on. And I haven't had like a real off period. Like it's been my career's been pretty go go go, especially because it started while I was an undergrad. Yeah. And now I'm in my second book, but I've done a master's degree, I've done a first book, I've finished my undergrad. Yeah. All that happened in a vacuum. So I haven't had time to sort of be a person, I feel. Now I'm kind of getting that time. Yeah. So maybe I feel like I've become boring because I was just so focused on finishing the project. I think that like maybe in two months I'll have cool stories. Like maybe I'll be cooler again. You know?
SPEAKER_03But then you could also just talk about uh, you know, what you do while you're writing at the same time. Yeah. When you're writing, where are you pulling from for the most part? Do you feel like you're pulling from the world as you see it right now? Are you pulling from like a child's perspective? Like, where's that coming from?
SPEAKER_05Definitely from the world as I see it. I do feel that I have a mission, maybe, in the sense that I always want to write about a black woman. I always want her to be of African descent. I always want her to be both French and English speaking, you know, Canadian. There are things that I have rules that I didn't plan to have, but I realize that this is the thing that interests me the most. You know, I could write about any character, but I realize that there's like not enough people writing about a black woman who is also queer, who is also bilingual, who comes from two different worlds. And these are things that excite me. Um and while it does seem like maybe there's like an illusion that it comes from my life, to me, it really just comes from observing the world as it is. I see that.
SPEAKER_03Because you also grew up within that community. You're talking about the people that you know as well. You're not just talking about yourself, yeah. But also, and I think obviously as we go through life, you learn one thing, you want to teach it to somebody else. You're also in a way, do you feel that you are teaching through your writing?
SPEAKER_05I don't do it intentionally. I don't seek out to you know make any political statements, I don't seek out to educate someone on anything. I just want to get as close to the story and to the truth of it as possible. And if someone enters my text and they're like, I've learned something, I'm inspired, I'm motivated. Oh my gosh, I love that. Definitely not a goal of mine, but it's really appreciated, and it definitely, you know, it makes me feel committed when I hear feedback like that. But when I'm writing, I'm really just wanting to be as truthful to the story that I'm telling as possible. And if that brings more, then I love that. Like that just feels amazing to me.
SPEAKER_07And do you feel like you have to um cut yourself off from what other people might say about your work when you are like do you have to protect your writing from the outside view when you are writing it?
SPEAKER_05Not anymore. During my master's degree, yes. Yeah, and I think that's normal. You know that you're reading with an audience, or sorry, you're writing with an audience, right? You're you're writing for workshop, you're writing to be critiqued, let's say. And during that time, there was definitely a part of me that wanted to applaise my workshop group, and I felt that pressure to sort of like answer to the needs of the classroom. But since I left my MFA, I I you know, I definitely feel that I've um I'm back to adjust being Taya.
SPEAKER_03Oh, thank goodness. Yeah, how does that feel? Amazing?
SPEAKER_05It does feel good. I understand there's like the whole like MFA voice dialogue that happens a lot in publishing, and I never understood it. I read a ton of MFA books that I thought were amazing. I was like, what do you mean, MFA voice? As a writer, I think I experienced it in the sense that I could see that I wasn't writing with a lot of curiosity. I only I was writing with a specific goal that had to do with like the reaction of my granted I am a people pleaser, so maybe that's a me thing. Like I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Then did it feel more like uh a sprint directly into where you wanted to go instead of like a wander, I guess.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it felt like I was wandering a lot during my MFA. And it's weird because it was the some of the best years of my life, and creatively I definitely felt that I was learning about myself. But the the biggest lesson for me is that yeah, I need to be alone when it comes to my writing. That was my big lesson. I that's like not a fault to anyone but my own personality.
SPEAKER_07Do you have any advice for someone who may be experiencing writer's block?
SPEAKER_05I don't believe in writer's block. Oh I just believe in redirection.
SPEAKER_02Tell me more.
SPEAKER_05I think that at least how I experience it, if I'm experiencing a blockage of any source, I don't think that it's a writer's block. I think that it just an opportunity to like turn around. That's really how I treat it. And every time I I arrive somewhere where I feel like I'm plateauing or I'm I'm facing a wall, well, I I just move, you know, whether it's like changed a narrative or uh changed an important detail, I do a form of exploration to keep the writing going. I just don't believe in something making the writing stop. I'm like incapable of not writing. Um and that's because I let myself kind of get turned around, I think. You know, so my best advice is like if you're really experiencing writer's block, put it away and do something else in the writing world, you know, read a novel, like read like I don't know, a insane thread on on Twitter or whatever it is. Um but don't stop writing because that that's essentially when you you at least the way I I think of it, when you stop writing, that's when you experience the block.
SPEAKER_07I was thinking about it and it feels like ghosting the love of my life. Um it's so painful to make a choice to stop.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But you're not, it doesn't feel like a choice when you get blocked. It feels like an obstacle's been presented in front of you and you don't really have anywhere to go. And you don't but what you're saying is like okay, if ahead of you it doesn't look like there's anywhere to go, just reorient yourself and find a way around it, and you'll be back on your path eventually. Yeah, but you just have to keep moving.
SPEAKER_05You do. I really believe in that. But I I also write in multiple genres, and I do know that when I was struggling the most with my novel, I just had to stop writing novel like the novel. I just started writing poems or like essays. Yeah. I accidentally wrote a memoir while writing my novel. Wow. Because I I got, you know, moments where it was a bit more difficult to get the words out, so I changed direction, and now I kind of have like a really shitty, no one's ever gonna see memoir that I wrote in like a fever dream in like one month. It's probably the worst thing I've ever written, but I'm so proud of it. Um and then it got me to just keep it it it gave me an opportunity to come back to the novel.
SPEAKER_06Do you have a favorite genre that you have to write it? I love poetry. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I feel like baby Taya would be so shocked that I'm writing novels. She'd be like, why?
SPEAKER_06Because you always love poetry. I love poetry. Oh, it's beautiful.
SPEAKER_05Do you have a favorite poet? I feel like of today, I really love Morgan Parker. I love Dennessee Smith. Um, I'm cheating by saying Kenisa Lubram, but I do love Kinesa Lubram. Um but I try not to talk about my favorite authors, sort of like in general, mainly because it changes pretty much depending on Ryan's life. Like right now, I spent the majority of this past residency going on and on about these three poets that I just mentioned. So in this moment, they feel very centralizing to me.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's so dynamic. I'm sure it's so dynamic in your world, you're constantly like shifting, especially uh if you're diving into different genres. And I mean, now I have a question for like my uh authors out there. Um because um, as a library goer myself, of course, there's the fiction, there's the nonfiction section. And I have always been like a fiction person, I'll read a mystery novel, I'll I'll read whatever's really presented to me, a classic, whatever. Um, but for the most part, when you guys are telling your stories, how are you classifying your work when between fiction and nonfiction, when you're pulling so much from reality, but then also putting whatever twist you want on it, which is the artistry, which is beautiful, my which is my favorite thing to read. And and for me to no, I'm rambling, but like, but like uh when I'm l listening to a story, reading a story, and I pick up something and I I recognize a part from one of you guys' lives, and then I notice the twist on it, I go, oh gosh, so good. It's it's like the it's like the spice that when it hits you, it's just like there it is. So, but what I'm asking is like how do you guys teeter that line?
SPEAKER_05I it depends on what what the project calls for. Yeah typically the way that I approach a writing session, um, if I do have a goal in mind, I know that if I'm writing a essay, that means I'm trying to essentially like understand something that I experience. Um whereas if I'm writing a short story or something that's fiction, I typically don't know enough about the experience and I'm trying to to like explore that. So for me, essay writing is sort of like I have all the answers now, here they are. Whereas like novel writing or writing fiction is like I have no answers, and I'm hoping that if I follow a specific path, maybe I'll get to one. And poetry is just like I want to say what feels like my everyday language, but because I only write poetry in private now, I feel like that's misleading to classify it in any way. But um, I turn to poetry when I'm hopeless.
SPEAKER_07When I have I don't know what else to do. Yeah, it reminds me of that um Joan Diddy in line, and I'm butchering it. I don't think it's exactly this, but she wrote, I write to figure out what I think.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Like you write to discover.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And I like the way that you're describing fiction writing as this, like you you go into it with a question you don't know the answer to, and you're hoping through the process of writing that you're going to discover it along the way. Yeah. That's so beautiful.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I really feel like that's what a writing session does look like for me. Granted, it's different when you're getting like solicited, or if you're, you know, with me, I have a second book contract. So um I, you know, I have no choice but to write a novel at this current moment. Well, no, not that I have no choice, but that's you're contractually obliged. Right. So now when I, you know, when I sit at my desk, I I typically go with one goal of like writing the second novel. You know what though?
SPEAKER_07I think like you you are in a position where you're able to dedicate your life full time now to writing, but it wasn't always that way. And I feel like what you're talking about now is it's um demonstrating an appreciation for the craft as someone who uh did not have that privilege for a very long time. Can you talk about what it's like to write and work and now to get to this place where you get to write for a living?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean, I feel that I'm not even fully there yet, right? Like I still need to outsource um my income, outsource like my my time in order to write. But you know, with the first book, Shut Up You're Pretty, I was like in school and I was working full-time, bartending, serving full-time. Wow. And it wasn't an insane way to live. I had no life. It was so go, go, go. I feel like when I think about that time in my life, it feels very suffocating. And out of that time came a novel, or not a novel, but a short story collection. Whereas with the second book, I was in school again, but this was a choice that I made very consciously, knowing the expectation. And when I made that decision to get an MFA, it was with the intention of like I want to know so much about publishing and about literature and about myself as a writer that I can actually envision this as a career and also as a life. So I feel like being an MFA program taught me how to be an everyday writer because like you're having to read all the time and write all the time, and it prepared me for I guess what I'm experiencing now, whereas I predominantly just write, which is very nice. In terms of like the financial side of it all, like I I don't know that it's possible to ever feel completely like confident and stable, but I don't know that's that's what I'm experiencing. Yeah, but I do I do know that I'm in a privileged sense in the way that like I know for a fact that I want to be a writer, yeah, and then that's all I'm interested in doing, and I get to really dedicate the majority of my time to the school. And I yeah, I feel like I'm still figuring out what that feels like, but when I did stop bartending to start writing full time, I felt insane. I was like, I don't know how to be a real person, I only know how to be a bartender.
SPEAKER_06I know. Let me make you a cocktail.
SPEAKER_04Please. It's like it was very, it was weird switching it off.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, um, no, here's a here's a difference in our industry. Really is just that like dancers, entertainers, we get rewarded immediately for how hard we worked. You know, and you get so, you know, because of that immediate gratification, it's like you always know if you're doing a good job or a bad job. And one night you're doing amazing, and the next night you're the worst person in the club. Like it's it's crazy, you know, the back and forth. But then when you're writing, I mean you're writing for years. Yes. And then finally being like, here's my cocktail, and then being like, please like my cocktail. And it's like, it's it's hard to gauge that, right? Because you can gauge that with numbers, you can gauge that with like, I guess, your editor or whatever it is, but um, how have you tried your best to uh not just separate your self-worth if you can, from you know, the outcome of your novel and your writing, but also like where do you get the most of your self-esteem from, if that makes sense? How do you find it every day to you know pick it up again and go? I'm a great writer, I love what I write about, and I'm gonna keep going again and get the next novel going.
SPEAKER_05Okay, I will say I do sometimes when I get sad or like stressed out, I'll I will go on Goodreads and I will look up my favorite novels. Okay, and I would read the one-star review of those books. Okay, that's a deep cut. So I love it. I'm like, this is the best piece of writing known to mankind. For this person to say that, the whole world is in shambles. And then that helps me remember that it doesn't matter. You know, this is like there are books that I think are just like the classics and incredible, and someone in some place, in some different, yeah, stable place than me, yeah, has a completely different opinion than I do and hates the book enough to give it a one-star review on Goodreads, which is nuts. And that helps me whenever I'm slipping into thinking too much about perception to remember that that's uncontrollable and it's just too far of a thing, it's too big of a thing to want to even capture. So I really don't spend a lot of time anticipating other people's opinion of my work. Um, so I really do feel that when I am writing, it's essentially for myself first. I love that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I want to continue my my question. I want to lead it on to you and say, how do you separate yourself from the critics?
SPEAKER_07I'm definitely gonna do what you just suggested, which is you know, look at my favorite authors, my favorite books that I think are like five out of five, like perfect, and then look at the one stars and be like, wow. Because something I've I've like uh accepted recently is that um you can't you can't tell stories to be liked.
SPEAKER_04No. You can't. You can't do this.
SPEAKER_07You can't tell stories hoping that people are gonna like you. Like that, it's just there's always another side to a story. There's always gonna be people who don't like the way you tell a story, there's always gonna be issues with it. So it's not really about likability, it's because you have something inside you that you have to get out of your body through art, and that's what I hold on to. It's like I just have to do it. And you're inspiring me so much because what I've been feeling uh a little bit recently is this sort of like physical blockage. I've been thinking about it as like a like a stone in my hips that's like stopping some stuff from coming through. But I it's starting to move a little bit. The stone is starting to move. And sometimes it's just a matter of like getting stuff out of the way that that needs to be, you know, like you have a to-do list and things start to add up, and then like it feels like insurmountable, but like eventually things will move. Yeah. So yeah, the blockage is starting to move. Yeah, yeah, and part of it will be redirecting myself around that stone, and that's just gonna help with the blockage.
SPEAKER_05I think it's so important. And you also, you're an artist of many different genres as well, right? Like, you know what? If writing is causing you physical pain, what allows you to create physically that has something to do with writing? Try that, tell a story that way.
SPEAKER_07Stripper news. Although I do a lot of writing for stripper news as well, and I love to do it. I love, but I think what I've been feeling lately is like the physical, the physical element of writing and how writing can feel not just painful, but just um laborous, like a workout. Like you get you know, you go to the gym, you know, there's that maxim, like you you never regret a workout. If you can make it to the gym and do your workout at the end of it, you're like, okay, I'm really glad that I did that. Which I'm sure is the same thing as a writing session, but it's just a matter of making that time. And you always have to choose to make that time because the time doesn't come to you, you have to make the time every day, and I'm sure you do that.
SPEAKER_05You have to ch I had to change my life entirely in order to be a writer. And that wasn't an easy decision. Like I it's weird to say because I am very grateful and I am truly happy, but I sometimes don't recognize things because it looks so different. You know, I've been writing professionally for seven years, but during those seven years, like I had said previously, I was doing a lot of other things in order to sustain a writing life, and now that I've arrived at a place where I have a writing life, I'm also kind of starting over as an adult. I'm like, what are what do I like to do? I don't know.
SPEAKER_03You know, yeah, we all have that moment. Yes, yeah. I mean, okay, it usually the moment usually starts with crying in your car, something of the like. Yes. Where you go, I'm not doing anything I like, and and everything is closing down, you go, Who chose this for me? That's right. Why? Who chose this because I was forced into this position. It always feels like that, right? So when you're talking about that extent, did it start from that pain point? And did you then turn into figuring out what you love?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, because writing was definitely not my my first pick, but it was the thing that I've always done as like a hobby, it was an extension of my everyday, and because of that, I didn't think of it as a career. You know, writing was sort of like cooking for me. You know, you you gotta make food to sustain yourself. And uh throughout my entire childhood, up until when I started writing professionally, I was writing because it was a form of survival for me, and I don't mean that in like a trauma divulging kind of way. It just meant that I was happier if I got to go home at the end of my day and do some sort of craft with my writing, and that's been true my entire life. There was no so there was not a moment where I was like, I'm gonna become a writer. I just was. There was a moment where I decided I'm going to publish professionally and I'm going to build a career and have an agent and you know try to get a publisher. That did happen. Um and that was really maybe also a act of brave survival. I had nothing else going for me. I had to just make this wild attempt and hope that I land.
SPEAKER_07Well, and you have landed. I landed. What how would you describe the Canadian publishing landscape?
SPEAKER_05Well, I I would like to keep publishing in it.
SPEAKER_06So I love Canlet. Yeah, Kenlet! Clip!
SPEAKER_05Clip, clip. Um, I am very grateful. I was really well welcomed. Um, I was well mentored, and you know, I don't take that shit lately. Yeah. I I do know that like what I experience is just not the standard everyone's experience, and I just try to hold on to how safe I was and how well connected I was and well championed, and I just try to focus on that and all the other stuff that comes with publishing in any market. I leave that to the pros. I want to do nothing but write. Yes. Exactly. So that is my opinion of Canadian.
SPEAKER_07Do you feel though that there is a pressure uh on Canadian writers from the publishing establishment to do more social media and self-promotion?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I think that's for everyone though. Yeah. Every corporate, because at the end of the day, publishing is a corporate world. Um, I think every industry is starting to see the power of like storytelling, but also content creation and uh the scope of social media. So I think the pressure is sort of like a cultural phenomenon that we're experiencing in a bunch of different sectors. I feel where I am in my life today, I'm becoming more private, and I've not notoriously was like a big mouth person. So I am sort of struggling now with the idea of being online. Um, Canada Reads kind of fucked me up. Not gonna let me know I got a lot of hate, you know, um, a lot of nasty DMs, which was like I'm at home playing with my cats, like don't DM me.
SPEAKER_07So you're talking about your book My first book, yeah. Um Being on Canada Reads. And okay, so maybe tell us what the book was about.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I wrote Shut Up You're Pretty. It's a book about you know a young woman who is essentially going on this self-discovery journey. Um, there's a lot of explicit content involved. You know, there's a part of the book that is very largely about the everydayness and like the effect of um poverty and sex work and being, you know, like you know, experiencing certain things as like a young black girl. And I really wrote that with a lot of passion and a lot of like protection for the book itself. And it you know, it got launched into the world, and for many years it was well received. It won many awards, it did, it did qualify quite a bit. It was really nice. Yeah, I like that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, thank you and it was well deserved, and it's a fucking incredible book.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. Um, and then you know, I I being on Canada Reads was interesting because everyday people now knew about my book in the way that they probably did it before. Yeah, and I became aware that people were reading my book in surplus, um, and a lot of people took it upon themselves to not use Goodreads and to instead use my DMs. Oh and I was like, babe, go on Goodreads, I'll read it there. You know?
SPEAKER_03Like I even care. Who are you?
SPEAKER_05But it um and I feel that was like my first time really understanding the scope of being a writer, because no one really, no one really said, Hey Taya, here's what I thought of your book to me before. Um and I realized that social media is this like insane vehicle, and at that moment I was like, oh my god, I need to change my legal name, I need to dye my hair blonde, I need to disappear. It was a lot. Um receiving yeah, it was a lot. Social media part of it was a lot. Canda read itself was great, um, but realizing that people have access to me, which I just I didn't consciously know before. Yeah, you know, um, and then this platform made me aware of that, and I've been scared of social media since.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we get it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we get it.
SPEAKER_03We were like, I'm always having this conversation about um that I get off of social media because I don't like that there are people forming opinions of me um through this device that you know I I can't say anything about, and they, you know, can twist it however they want and send it to all their friends and talk all this crap about something and they have no idea, you know. And so it's so hard, especially when you have like multiple multiple personas that are bouncing around on the internet that you know people get to pick apart and tear apart. But then also um when it comes to you know you needing to be there every single day because you have to, you know, promote yourself, and which is a totally new concept, like and is expedited, like it's multiplied every single day. Um, because 15 years ago, if you did that, like you're a sellout. We have a word for you. You're a sellout, like you only care about your TV show, that person just wants to make a bunch of money. Like all those shows, you know, like those back in the 2000s and the early like 2010s, they were popping because they were like, they're like, these people are cool and they're indie and they do whatever they want. And when there's a photo taken of them, like they don't even want to be in the picture. And now everyone's like, and now please go watch my show. And everyone's like, of course we'll watch your show, Zendeya. You know, because who doesn't love? But then when normal person, you know, well, someone without nearly as much magnitude does it, everyone's like, who asked? It's like I'm an impressed. Yeah. And it's but now I think because you have platformed yourself incredibly well, in my opinion, I really think that um, I think you are getting your point across. You're saying, and now I have another book coming, and people are going, can't mark my calendar about that. Do you do you feel that um like how how established do you feel within the writing world at this point in your career?
SPEAKER_05I feel I don't I feel that I'm still emerging, you know? I don't know that I feel I do. Uh yeah, I had to go to give it away crazy from an outside.
SPEAKER_03This is exactly it. And I said this to both of you before.
SPEAKER_07From the outside, you're popping. I know. And then we feel like we're emerging.
SPEAKER_05I feel like I'm emerging.
SPEAKER_07I know, but maybe it's because we know that we have so much more to offer that people haven't seen yet.
SPEAKER_05Like, I'll tell you this. Like, when my publisher from the from pet from the US wrote me an email and they used the word arc in it, I had to Google what is an arc. I didn't know what an arc was. Granted, I've received an arc for my first book. Did I? Actually, I don't know that. I don't I don't remember. But I was like, I don't know the language of publishing. I don't I don't know what a bl I don't understand blurb culture. These are things I'm learning. These are blurbs. Yeah, and they're new to me. So it's hard for me to be like, oh yeah, I feel like I'm killing it, I'm a real writer when so much is like new. Yeah you know, um, that's and I don't want to take that away from me. Yeah. Uh it's really cool that my first book did well, but um, to me, that is really is just my beginning, and I'm still at my beginning. Yeah. I barely know how to write a novel. Oh who knows what I've done?
SPEAKER_07Well, let's talk about that second book. Yeah. Let's talk about my person. What is it about? And what are you excited about um bringing this story to to the Canadian public? Let's let's keep it let's keep it Canadian.
SPEAKER_05Let's keep it Canadian, Canadian maid. Um, my person is about a friendship breakup. You have Tanya and her childhood best friend and live in roommate, Margot. And Tanya kind of suggests, hey, maybe this isn't working out, let's maybe not do this anymore. And that essentially launches us into uh the aftermath of a conversation like that. Um and wow, I don't even remember exactly why I wanted to write about a friendship breakup specifically, like what really drew me to that. But um the the the title my person does come from Grey's Anatomy. I use my favorite show, and I remember growing up this like you're my person, you're my person was used quite a bit amongst female friendships, and I didn't like hearing that because they felt possessive. So I knew when I wanted to write about a friendship breakup, this idea of a the possessive nature came back to me, and I I kind of just played with that. So that's kind of what you know how I I got the book going. Um what am I most excited about? I I wrote a few sex scenes in this book. And um I had a lot of fun writing. And you know, I was thinking about it the other day. I was talking to another writer about this. I'm like, sex is actually not always good. It's mostly kind of fat mundane. It's you know, it's mostly like, oh, it elbow hit here, and like a like a ooh, um totally ouch dropping sweat. Like your breath smells like onions. Um and I wanted to tap into that while writing my person. Awesome. I actually didn't really I kind of forgot about that. But um, what I'm most excited about is that I wrote sex that feels a bit more um, I don't know, less less beautiful in the in the Hollywood way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05I'm excited about that. Can we get an excerpt from the new novels? Yes. Okay. Um, so this is from the first chapter. I don't have the physical copy, so I'm gonna read from my phone. But it's like a pink phone case, so like imag, you know? Perfect. You can imagine. You can imagine.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_05Um, so this is from midway into the first chapter. Margot and I met in the third grade. We were both new girls at a French Catholic K-12 school. So we were assigned to each other by desk. She was shy and reserved and carried her family's wealth unintentionally on the tip of her nose. I was a know-it-all, somewhere between a class clown and a teacher's pet. I was excellent at school but terrible at math. And Margo was great at math but bad at people. There was much there's not much else to say about childhood. We noticed each other the way girls sometimes did. We were both of the same height, both skinny as hell. We both liked the same stuff, TV and colouring books. Her mother kept her hair in French braids, and mine kept my hair in cornrows. At that age, we did not have language to identify the intricate technique of her mother's raving style versus Margot's, though we acknowledged that they were quite different. Her rays were bulky, poking from her scalp. Mine laid flat on my head, making me look, at least from a distance, almost bald. We could wrap our head around the differences in obvious ways. Her face was serious, mine was perky. Her nose was considered cute, and mine a pig-like. Her skin was pale, mine was not. We believe these differences were besides the point, which was to say we do not address them. And that was that. It was the sort of thing born out of falling in love with the person when you're only eight years old. That's gorgeous.
SPEAKER_03That's gorgeous. Thank you. Seriously. Yeah, absolutely. Congratulations. Thank you. Really? And so, um, how uh how developed would you say your your novel is at this point? And when will I get to get my grimy little hands on it? Um, August 11th.
SPEAKER_05Oh it's like it's done, it's no longer in my hands. We're just in the I guess pre-pro in what is it called? Pre-production phase.
SPEAKER_07Oh my god, so it's not printed yet. But you can't.
SPEAKER_05My arcs are printed.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I don't I don't think I can touch it again. But like I said, I'm emerging, I don't know things. I'm finding it out as I go.
SPEAKER_03But how does that make you feel now?
SPEAKER_05I'm proud of it. I'm so happy. It was a really fun, I really enjoyed it. Like I think my main thing when I was working on this book, because Shut Up You're Pretty was such a massive emotional labor for me, and I was like very unhappy while working on that first book. I wanted to enjoy the experience of writing. Um, I needed to enjoy the experience of writing so that I could, you know, maybe secure a life for myself that way. Like I needed to like like it. Enough to want to do it again.
SPEAKER_07How did you do that?
SPEAKER_05Um I I just I just you locked it. I really it was like every writing session. I just this is my guiding light, I wanna have fun, I wanna feel serious, I wanna be curious, um, I wanna be honest, you know? And I just kept going back with that in mind every time I I got sucked out of my desk or my bed because I wrote a lot from different hotel rooms and from my bed. Um but I I really just was like the second I stopped having fun, we've got some thinking to do.
SPEAKER_07Did you have a ritual?
SPEAKER_05Not at the time of my person, I was an MFA student. I was also severely sick, so I was really just trying my best in terms of um getting time to actually write. But with my my new, now I'm writing a second novel for some for some reason. Because you love it, because I love it, and now I have a better retro, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah, you don't have to reveal what that is. But do you think ritual is important? Does it help?
SPEAKER_05I'm well, I mean, I did it the first two times without a retrol. I just did it like hope and pray. Yeah, you know, um, now that I do have a retrol, I take myself a tiny bit more seriously, and that feels cool. And when my mom blows up my phone during the the workday, I get to be like, I'm at work. I don't even say I'm writing, I say I'm at work. Oh and then she goes, You got a job? And I'm like, I had one for the past seven year. Tell me about your new job, Ma. Yeah. My job is to do the thing I'm currently doing in my apartment, which is called writing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um you said that uh, and and I hope I got this correct, but that you don't know why exactly was specifically a friendship breakup that you wanted to write about. The moment you said that you were writing about a friendship breakup, I immediately locked onto that just because I have like many experiences where that I could relate to right there, where it was I was in a Catholic school in kindergarten with I wrote this for you. You did. I was like, oh, stop talking about me. Um where like it was always me and my friends against the world until I was probably like 20 years old, and then I had a falling out, and I remember like yesterday how deeply it impacted me. So how what kind of feelings are you really bringing out inside this book? Do you find that for yourself and for your experiences?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um when I when I started working on the project, I knew I wanted to write about a friendship. But I also knew that the friendship wasn't going to make it. But at the time in my my head, I wasn't saying a friendship breakup in those terms. I was just writing about, I was exploring a friendship in turmoil, let's say. Right. Um, and whenever I would try to talk to people about it, no one really cared. Like no one, oh, two girls fighting, cool. Um so then I started saying, no, they're going through a breakup. And then everyone would be like, Oh, I've had that experience. And then everyone would tell me super unsolicited about how much that experience affected them. Exactly. And I was like, okay, so you know what's going on. Yeah. And when I realized that, I was like, that's what I've been trying to do. I've been trying to tap into this moment where something that you've cherished for so long, something that you've also been told through pop culture that you need, right? Like girl duos, like babies born in the 90s, like that's the we grew up with that, right? Um, that was all over the the TV, every TV show we watched. It was always these two centralizing characters that were the true love story. And um yeah, I really that's what I was trying to capture in in the book. What it's done for me as a writer is I I found that I really like language. Um I yeah, I I love I love drama. I've always loved drama. I I I am a retired actor who had a failed career as an actor.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but you can go back to it.
SPEAKER_06Emerging. Emerging in a actor at whatever pace.
SPEAKER_05And that was fun. Yeah. Yeah. It was like playing with these fiends. Oh, I had the best time.
SPEAKER_03Good. I'm so glad.
SPEAKER_06I did cry a lot though. Oh good cries.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh like uh growing. Yeah. Growing cries. Yeah. It's like, man.
SPEAKER_07Isn't it wild to cry about characters that you've invented? I've had that experience too, where I'm like, I have like an intense emotional reaction to like some fictional characters and like their development, and I'm like, No, they're not real, but I can feel it. Because the feeling is real. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07You know, and yeah, I think that that's the beauty of fiction and the beauty of using our imaginations. Even if there is some like real life root that we know that we're plucking at when we are inspired to write our fiction. It's the it's the feeling that we know that we can play with even if we're imagining new scenarios. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. The world the world definitely came in a lot for me with this book. And it's like, it's because I I know I I keep saying that I'm not trying to be political, but what I really mean is I am naturally a politically charged person. So I'm not trying to be more of that. I'm trying to just respect the realities of like what I make, you know, how I feel and how my characters are responding in a world that looks familiar. Yeah. Um, and that surprised me a lot with this book. I was surprised at how much of the world I seem to care about. Because I I, you know, I'm in my own head, I'm in my my tiny little bubble of a home, and sometimes that's all you you know until you start writing and you're like, holy shit, I'm going left, right, and center.
SPEAKER_03And now that you've uh packaged this portion of your life and this part of your career and novel and stuff, what are you going to start doing that you really enjoy?
SPEAKER_05Okay. Don't don't laugh. It's gonna sound crazy. Okay. Um, so I recently started reading for fun. Oh wow! Like, can you believe no assignments, oh nothing, yeah, just for fun. Yeah. Um, I really love smug. Um, I also in in high school I loved genre fiction. And so it's been fun. I've been just reading for the heck of it, and that's been the most thrilling part of my today life.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because everything else I do that I enjoy doing, I've never really felt pressured to do these things. Um, so it's different that I get to now just read because I want to and not read because I'm studying, or read because I'm, you know, trying to get some grade or trying to get to whatever stage I'm just reading because I like it. And that's mine.
SPEAKER_03It's so enjoyable. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_07You have also been going through a bit of a sobriety journey. I have, yeah. And you're talking to the right people because we've also been going through our own little sobriety journeys. I'm about to celebrate seven years without alcohol. Wow. Uh like next week, which is kind of crazy. I know today.
SPEAKER_06April 4th. Oh my god. Yeah. I'm April 1st.
SPEAKER_07Oh, I love this for you. I love this for you. I love this for you. Thank you. Yeah. Um, and I'm curious about how how that has positively impacted not only your writing, but also your reading. Because I find like if I'm intoxicated, I can't read. Yeah. There's not there's enough time to read. Yeah. And there's no time to write, and I'm not writing well if I'm, but there is this like um stereotype, especially around writing, that you know, we have to be drunk and unhealthy to be good writers. And that like, you know, the the cult figures, the classics, all of those predominantly men, but also some drunk women too. Um, that's like the only way to be a writer. And so do you think it's improved your writing in this period of time?
SPEAKER_05Um well, so I started in January 1st. So I'm I'm three months, and I did it just as an experiment, you know. Um I did write a ton in January. Like it was like a a beautiful like marriage of words for me. Um so I don't, you know, I didn't think of it that way. I didn't I didn't ask myself if I thought it was because I wasn't drinking at the time. But what I will say is I was such a heavy drinker in my previous life, and I didn't know writers I didn't know that was a thing. So I would be like embarrassed. Like I would go to like publishing events and I would I had would be my best self and like I would be scared to drink and stuff because I was like, I don't want these professional people to know that I'm a hoot. I don't want them to know how fun I am. So it's interesting to now hear that this like you know, doing drugs and drinking heavily in order to create that this is like a thing that happens. Totally. I was so embarrassed about that. Yeah, so that's interesting to me whenever I hear that. I now see it everywhere, and again, I don't know if it's because I have been um participating in sober life for the last couple of while, but what I will say is I sleep better, which is nice because I I just haven't been able to sleep previously. Um, a lot of things have really resolved. Like I think more clearly. I've always thought that I was in like an anxious attachment style kind of person. Not true. I was just drunk. I was just drunk. Um so that's been fun. Yeah. And I, you know, uh as I am opening myself up to like potentially drink again, I have such stronger boundaries. I just didn't really have strong boundaries before. I was a bit of a people pleaser.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Totally. So now I'm just like, oh, Taya's not available for that. She's busy.
SPEAKER_07She's in her bed writing. Yeah. And then she's gonna go to sleep. Yeah. At a reasonable hour and have a great sleep.
SPEAKER_05It's my favorite thing to do, Tanimo is sleeping.
SPEAKER_08Sleeping is good.
SPEAKER_03A lot more enjoyable. I I I think regular things, uh the day-to-day life is is more enjoyable when you're not constantly wondering when you're about to take the edge off, you know. You you're not really thinking about the edge as much when you know that, you know, you'll you're sober right now, and probably by the end of the night you're still gonna be sober. Like, you know, it's um less of a chase.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because I I think a lot of people they chase the dragon in whatever regard, right? And then once you stop running, you're like, I never needed to be running in the first place.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it's um, it's it's very calming, I think. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I admire people who don't have like any negative relationship with drinking. Sure. I'm like that, you're so cool. Like, how did you get there? Sure respect. You love it. I love that for you. I was a bartender for 12 years. Yeah, yeah. So that it's just not been my story. Um, but what I do like is this being having gone on this journey, I've just gained a lot of power in my life back. Yeah. And I know it seems like I don't want to focus too much on the alcohol portion of it all. It's more like I went to Girls Night and the bartender asked if I wanted a shop, and then I said no. And I used to never say no. Not because I didn't, I not because I wanted one, but because I felt pressured to like, you know, have one because it was offered to me. Yes. It's so cool. Like, I'm gonna have a Diet Coke. I love it. Yes.
SPEAKER_07So I've learned that about one of the hardest of the soft drinks.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And you know where your night's gonna go from there, and there's a lot of like there's actually a lot of power in that. You do actually go, like, oh, I do have control over this, like, especially, you know, for entertainers, I think um, a lot of people, there is actual pressure to drink from customers, from management, from doing leaders. Yeah, absolutely. And um, I mean, a lot of people are driving home. And so when I was, I'm not gonna say when I was drinking and driving, but when I was drinking and driving, it was a lot diceer situation, as you can tell, right? And um, and yeah, I I could start some nights, and once I'm having that first drink, I go, I don't know what the rest of my night's gonna look like. But now, every single day, probably for the rest of my life, I do know. And that's incredibly peaceful for me. It is, it is absolutely I love that. Good job. Yeah, good job, congratulations. It takes a lot to make that choice.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. I'm glad. I I feel like all of 2025, I kind of already slowed down and I was already noticing how immediate the shifts in my life was, especially like health-wise. Like, I had a lot of health issues. Um, so that was like the initial, you know, entry point. But now I'm just like, oh god, I'm at the gym all the time. I can't justify the calories, yeah, or the hungoverness. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, I need to sleep. Yeah, your priorities change.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. It's really weird.
SPEAKER_07And also to just to say, you know, if if you do end up being able to like, you know, drink moderately after this, like that's awesome. That fucking rules. And like nothing will take uh this period away from you in which you've you've gotten like a taste of what it's like to not drink in the long term. Like having a healthy relationship to any substance is a really beautiful and powerful thing.
SPEAKER_06And you're yeah, you're an incredible person!
SPEAKER_03There's a lot of talent in the room right now. Yeah. Talent in the champagne room right now.
SPEAKER_07Um, well, so there is one last question that we do need to ask you. Okay. Um, would you like a lap dance?
unknownAmazing.
SPEAKER_07You're so good. That was such a good dance. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us in the champagne room. Okay, and my person comes out again. I guess 11.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god. So exciting. Incredible. Thank you. Congratulations, babe. We love you. We love you.
SPEAKER_02Oh, we love you.
SPEAKER_00Oh, babe. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and become a member today to keep these girls happy. See you next time on the champagne.