SPEAKER_02 0:51

It's nine fifty eight, so I can't start yet. It's nine fifty nine, I have one more minute.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

Levi is here today. I thought that would fit our discussion of creation and the fall. I think he was spared. He seems not to participate in the fall. I think he was spared. One, two, three. Please make sure you have the handout. These are four pages from the the catechism. And certainly it being this cold on April 26th is part of the fall, that's for sure. That is not original holiness and justice. Okay, it is now 10 o'clock. Crazy on time for me. That's not my usual. What just happened here?

unknown 2:22

Try again. There we go.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. In this Easter season, we sing the Regina Chaley. So if you know it, you can sing along. And if not, just kind of just let it sink in. It's a beautiful Easter chant.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Regina Chale letare alleluia. Alleluia.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. So if I'm correct, the we said we would cover today, starting at page 86. Am I saying that right? I thought so, yes. 86 through 89, I think we were going for that. Yeah. So when I looked at pages 86 through 89, the catechism itself, obviously, this course is using a textbook, but the textbook is organizing the content of the catechism, right? So there are times where it's good to go to the source itself, the catechism, and get even fuller content right from there. So I wanted to do that today. I think so the topic here, first it's the fatherhood of God, then the fall. I think those are treated with more detail and more clarity right from the catechism itself. So go to page uh so paragraph 370. You recall my comment last week about we're created in the likeness, image, and likeness of God. A friend of mine had said one time, yeah, well, we are like God, but God is nothing like us. Well, it turns out the catechism actually says that, right? So paragraph 370. In no way is God in man's image, right? So to say that we are in the likeness of God does not mean that he's in our likeness. In no way is God in man's image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes, but the respective perfections of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God, those of a mother and those of a father and husband, right? So the calling God father is not because he's made in the image of human fathers. That's not it, right? In a sense, the limitations of human language, the best we can do is to call God father. But God the Father doesn't have a gender. See what I'm saying? That's just the best we can do in our limited human language, as this paragraph is making clear, right? So the fatherhood of God is reflected in human fathers, but it's bigger than that, right? That that's that's we have to always remember that our our human language and our human minds are always going to fall short of the infinite reality of God. But it's revealed that he is Father, Son, and Spirit. So that's our best access to knowing who God is as a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So when we speak about the fatherhood of God, what's also really interesting is, and it was just in a prayer last week, I I think it was Monday of last week, that our image of God goes through, to say it this way, our human experience of our parents, right? Our parents are the image of God for us as children. All of us discover who God is firstly through our parents, both father and mother. But there's a beautiful passage in the catechism. I didn't copy this page, I want to read it to you. This is paragraph 2779, if you want to make that note and read it yourself. So in paragraph 2779, um, it says this we must humbly cleanse our hearts of certain false images drawn from this world. Humility makes us recognize that no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son, right? And Jesus said that. And here's the next line that's really important. The purification of our hearts about who God is has to do with paternal and maternal images stemming from our personal and cultural history. I'm gonna say that again. The purification of our hearts, meaning our hearts are impurely seeing who God is, right? The purification of our hearts, the cleansing of our hearts has to do with paternal or maternal images stemming from our personal and cultural history and influencing our relationship with God. I remember this beautiful story about a boy is dying in the hospital of some disease, and the father's at the bedside just mourning, grieving, he's gonna lose his son, and there he is at the bedside. And but the son seems so serene, just like an eight or nine-year-old child. And the father says, Well, son, are you afraid to die? You know, because they they know it's coming. He says, No, Daddy, because I'm sure God is just like you. Beautiful, right? That's beautiful, right? So all the good qualities of a parent, father, and mother do reveal the goodness, the beauty, the reality of God, right? That's we're designed for that, right? We're designed to know God through human instruments and no more directly than, of course, than our parents. But as the catechism says in this one paragraph 2779, no dad is that perfect and no mom is that perfect, right? So there's gonna be our concept, we have to recognize, we have to respect human psychology, right? We our minds get formed, even physically, right? Our brains getting formed, right, in the earliest years. So our image of who God is is gonna be significantly um um impacted and created by who dad is and who mom is, right? And anybody else who has a fatherly, motherly role in our lives. The purification of our hearts has to do with the paternal or maternal images from our personal and cultural history, influencing our relationship with God. So just to be aware of that in the spiritual life, that just saying our father, it's impossible to disassociate that from human fatherhood in your life. Impossible, right? So, but what you pray for by the grace of the Spirit is for anything that's not of God in your human father experience would just be kind of, you know, overcome, cleansed, purified, so that your experience of who God truly is becomes more the reality in your life. And we have a local kind of um reminder of this. I've you've heard you've heard me talk about this, right? That above the sanctuary here in St. Louis, the church was not originally designed with two skylights where they are, right above the edge of the sanctuary. Those two skylights were installed in the 90s. Ironically enough, by a by the pastor who raised money with my dad's company. It's kind of funny. Uh my dad did professional fundraising. So, in that fundraising campaign, among other things, they were improving things in school and the church, and they added skylights. So those two skylights, a perfect image, a reminder of what a parent is trying to be, right? Two parents trying to be the window through which God's reality, God's love, who God is, shines through mom and dad to the children, right? But I'll take the analogy one step further. At some point in your life, in your spiritual development, you don't look at the window so much, right? That you have a direct experience of the light. No window is perfect. We got windows that are tinted, broken, um, dirty, you know. No window perfectly lets all the light through. So at one, at some point in your life of spiritual development, can I say, the window gets opened and it's just direct. The light of God is just you're experiencing who God is like directly. I would say that's through the life of meditation, Eucharistic adoration, right, at the level of the soul. That's where that purification takes place. And you're no longer thinking God is judging you because your dad did, or thinking that your mom or your God, that God is judging you because your mom did, right? So you get purified and cleansed of that, that he has a pure love for you, purer than any parent could have for their children, right? So just on the personal spiritual level, when we speak about the fat speak about the fatherhood of God, as the catechism says in 370, in no way is God in man's image. So just have that awareness as we read through this content here today. The other thing to mention to you is really interesting. Um, let's look in the textbook on page 87. That last paragraph about the fatherhood of God. I'm going to read that, read it and make a comment. The three persons in one God are distinct only in their loving relation to one another, which in some ways mirrors the relationships within a human family. Read that again. The three persons in one God are distinct only in their loving relation to one another, which in some ways mirrors the relationships within a human family. We'll come back to that. Divine revelation teaches us that the Father eternally begets the Son, who is co-eternal with the Father, and that the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son. The blessed tri- I'll stop there for a moment. So please understand this: the Son of God always exists. Father, Son, Spirit eternally exists. We can't imagine that, right? It's beyond imagination how that, you know, is eternal. So the Son of God does not come into existence when Jesus is conceived in Mary. That's not when the Son of God begins to exist. The Son always exists, but 2,000 years ago, the Son of God, in the fullness of time, as St. Paul says, takes on a human nature. So a human nature is joined mystically, mysteriously, to his divine nature, right? So the Son of God always exists. The Trinity always exists. We didn't know there was a Son, right? We didn't know that. We didn't know that until Jesus, the Son, reveals himself in his public ministry. And then that reveals more clearly there's a Father. And then towards the end of his ministry, he starts to reveal the Holy Spirit, right? So it's a gradual process, but the Father, Son, and Spirit always exist, right? So the Son especially exists always as an eternal son, but the eternal son of God takes on a human nature, which he has now forever, right? The person of the Son is now God and man. But he was for infinitely, for an infinite amount of time, he only had a divine nature, right? Think about that, right? So for an infinite amount of time before 2,000 years ago, he existed always as a son, but with no human nature. The human nature being joined to the one, in the one person, divine God and man. That happens 2,000 years ago. Continue the paragraph, though. The blessed Trinity thus manifests the love of the perfect family. Raise your hand if you're one of those perfect families. Are there any here today? I there's one. I know it's at least there's always at least one in the crib. It is the clement family, though, which means merciful. Though this is inclement weather, unmerciful weather, right? Today's inclement. It's too cold. Okay. The Blessed Trinity thus manifests the love of the perfect family, so it is not just the individual person who is created in the image of God, but rather the entire human family, father, mother, children, is formed in the image of the perfect love of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This phrase, the Trinity, is a communion of persons, if you've heard that phrase, right? So the Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, existing always, is a communion of persons. One God, three persons. How to explain that, right? That's a mystery beyond our imagination. We profess it by faith. Here's the really interesting thing I'm gonna share with you today. I think I have this stat exactly right. There's uh an organization called Communio, as it were, Communion, which does work in supporting and promoting marriage. And what they have found in their research, I think I have this right, it's a very high number. I think it's 80%. If it's not, it's close to that. 80% of people in the pews today, Sunday, across this country, in all denominations, not just Catholic, in all denominations, if you're a regular churchgoer, 80% of the people in the pews today grew up in a two-parent household. Not judging the other 20% at all, right? In fact, that's actually the Holy Spirit might be more active in those 20% because those people didn't have that experience growing up, but have faith in their practice of faith. Great, awesome. But what does it tell you? On the ordinary level of human nature, you just kind of know without knowing, without thinking, you just kind of know the Trinity exists and Christian faith makes sense because you lived Trinitarian life in the home. Right? That's kind of a backwards way of getting to what the catechism is teaching, right? This, that the family is a reflection of, or a family is made in the image of the Trinity, a communion of persons. You might put this over the doorway of a family's home. Welcome to our home, a communion of persons, right? That's what a family is trying to be, imperfectly for sure, but a family is trying to be a communion of persons. And in the communion of persons, that is the Trinity, there is hierarchy, right? The Father begets the Son, from the Father and Son proceeds the Holy Spirit. And in a family, there's hierarchy, right? The authority of parents over their children, older brothers and sisters, things like that, right? So comments about that. Just want you to take that in and offer any comments or thoughts or questions about this imaging or reflection of the Trinity, a communion of persons in the life of family. Yeah. The family life experience with its brokenness, right? Some more broken than others, some more dysfunctional than others, right? Um that there's still um research has shown this as well. This is I I I love the research, right? That children who grow up in a two-parent household, even with brokenness and unhappiness and stress and fighting, overall, we're speaking gender, right? Um do better, you know, just academically and in life, things like that. There are certainly exceptions. I mean, this is these are general, you know, no comments, right? But what I'm trying to say is that even in a household where mom and dad are not a happy marriage, they're kind of like just maybe um almost like separate in their own home, the very presence there, short of abusive things, I'm sure, right? I I think the research would would indicate well, but if there's abusive um elements there, these stats are not gonna, you know, gonna be consistent there. But short of that, even in an unhappy marriage, even in a sort of, not sort of, but even in dysfunctional um home environments, the very being of the family as a family, father-son, children, father, mother, children, is even in a very imperfect way, is imaging the Trinity, as you say, like at least the desire for what's not there, you know. Um so there's a lot more we can say about that, but just these are broad comments. Is there a word for that desire for that perfect communion? You mean? Yeah. I'm gonna offer this comment that really it's your c your question comments are leading us right into the fall, in a way, right? That one of the big differences between certain strains of Protestant theology and Catholic theology is that, yes, because of what we profess as the fall, we are wounded, but we're not completely corrupt. That we're capable of holiness, we're capable of pure love, we're capable of being restored, right? It's not just um what's that phrase? I think it's from Martin Luther. Um we're not snow-covered dung. Like that image? Levi, I'm sorry.

unknown 20:56

I think it's Calvin.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

Is it Calvin? Okay, thank you for crediting. Yeah, yeah, I wasn't sure. But we would never profess that. We would not say that we're just our sins are just covered over, we're still just corrupt, but he's basically just overlooking it, you know, sort of because Jesus is so good. No, what the Catholic faith would profess is that we are wounded by the fall, but we're capable of being restored and truly holy. Yeah, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Well that's how like uh from a Thomistic perspective, we can be said to have like natural inclinations that are only so like people that don't have the faith, obviously never got the guy. Yeah, well said. That that that has an inclination to work with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 21:53

Right, exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

We believe that that capacity for goodness and holiness is there. Um, obviously we need God's grace, right? And we're capable of we're capable of serious sin and depravity for sure, but but we don't think that God's plan is just to I keep using this, cover the tongue with snow. I'm sorry, Lee, but I want to apologize. We're speaking so ill of you. Jerry, yes, comment now. Deprived, depraved. Say it again when you're saying explain more what you're saying. I'm sure that there's Protestants who would say, well, there's more to it than that, but for our c just kind of categorizing things today, the idea that we are depraved because of our fall. Snow covered dung as an image. Deprived, meaning kind of a a broken, um, a broken, like a broken-down car. Well, we can fix it. Like I think God's grace can can repair and make us run again. Uh there's something I was gonna think of. I forgot it though. Other comments or questions? Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, that we're only speaking of a marriage to begin with, right? Yeah, there's no um children before the fall. Right. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't know what to think about that. That's a great question. Or great comment. Yeah. Yeah, because they fall as husband and wife, and then the children come later. Yeah, Brian.

SPEAKER_08 24:25

So it is possible for those said.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

Yeah. In certain areas.

SPEAKER_09 24:41

You can just still be kind.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's another way of recognizing that we are deprived, not depraved, because we're capable of lots of virtue and goodness. At the same time, we could be struggling in in a particular area, right? Yeah. So for example, somebody can have a struggle with an addiction of some kind, and at the very same time, be a very kind, patient person, right? So we're more interesting than than just being depraved. You know, we're we're more there's more more nuanced than that, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:22

Other comments or possible. Yeah. So it's still possible to be a good person without going together, right?

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Yeah, in fact, so again, these topics all relate to each other. You're the way you're thinking today is kind of reflecting, it's kind of funny. It's exactly how the textbook is laid out, right? Your your questions relate to the family, to original sin, to the effects, and then the next topic you see on 91 is natural law, right? So there's a beautiful phrase from Vatican II. Those who knew who those who, through no fault of their own, have never known the gospel of Christ can be saved. How that happens, bit of mystery there, right? But the point being that, um, and there's a passage in Romans about um how the pagans can know the through through created things, you can know the things of God, right? Things like that. So point being that um the inclination to the good is still there. It's almost like gravity. It's still there. There's there can be stumbling blocks in the way, but the inclination to be good, to be loving, to be kind, to be forgiven, to be forgiving, that has not been lost, right? Um however, it is harder to stay on the path of the good without the help of God's grace. That that's undeniable as well, right? So um, bit of a mystery, you know. So that beautiful phrase, though, those who through no fault of their own have never known the gospel of Christ. There's all sorts of ways that that can be true. So, for example, what if your experience of the gospel of Christ is a really unhealthy church experience? That's gonna cloud your experience of the gospel, right? So it doesn't just mean you live in a country where there was no Christianity. It doesn't just mean that. It can mean all sorts, could mean, as you're sharing, could mean a very unhealthy family, right? If you experience a lot of suffering and trauma and things like that in your family as a child growing up, that's gonna make it harder to believe, right? It's gonna make it harder to believe in the gospel of Christ and the goodness of God, right? That that's that's that's part of this broad phrase, those who through no fault of their own have never known the gospel of Christ, right? So we don't have the position that some denominations would have that, well, if you didn't profess faith in Jesus, you got no chance. We we don't have that um belief about the human person. We believe that it's it's more nuanced than that. At the same time, we don't say it doesn't matter. No, because life is better and your heart is in a better place by by way of the gift of faith. Father Fran Peffley, he was here years ago, very smart, inspiring, clever guy. He juggled him. What doesn't father do, right? He was a big fan of the um the Franklin planner. Some of you remember the Franklin Planner. And he would say, you can be saved without the Franklin planner. It's just much harder, he says. Similarly, the gospel, right? You can be saved without Christian faith, Christian formation being formed by the love of God and the church, etc. It's just harder, right? It's harder because it's going to be hard to understand, X, Y, and Z, and main interpret your own life experience, right? So we don't despair of people's salvation who, for whatever reason, didn't come to faith during their life, but we also don't not care about it for the opportunities we have to share the gift of faith with others. Or in other words, think about your own life. How would you have gotten through certain situations without faith? You're like, I don't know. I would not. Where would I be today if I didn't have the gift of faith as I look back on my life, right? So, okay, well, great thoughts, comments, and questions about this. So the image of God is not just in the image of God, he created them. So we talked about that last time, right? Male and female, he created them. So the image of God is in, is reflected in both, male and female. That's important. The image of God also means that we can know, we can choose, we can love, we have freedom, all those ways that reflect who God is, right? But we're also realizing today, adding this, when you think of God, especially as a trinity, as a communion of persons, that the family is made in the image of God. Father, Son, Spirit, Father, Mother, Children, that is very much reflective, and as I'm sharing today, even in sociological research, faith takes root more easily. Not saying it doesn't in others, clearly, right? But it more naturally takes root in those who got to experience, how can I say, you experience the Trinity on a natural level in a family environment. You know, again, abuse of unhealthy things notwithstanding. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

I've done an interesting stat that makes me think about her situation. Uh so uh households that have a family where the faith life is basically led by the mother, only like 20% of the children stay in the faith, or if they stay in the faith 20% of the time. If it's led by the father, and say even if the mother wasn't involved, it was an 80% retention.

unknown 31:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Yeah, there's this research about um when you have, I'm not gonna remember the exact numbers, but they are kind of significant. And I think this is held over time, they've done this research more than once. That when mom is practicing her Christian faith, and this goes across denominations, not just Catholic, it's something like I think it's higher than 20. We'll call it 35, 40 percent that children kind of.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

It might actually be higher than that. It's like getting the single teams to like.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Okay, so when mother is is practicing and dad is not, it's it's an uphill climb.

SPEAKER_06 31:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

When mother and father are both, it gets better. No, but even even if the mother removed, even if it's just the father, we're gonna be able to do that. That's what I'm getting. Yeah, yeah. Then when you have both, you have mother and father, it gets higher. But when it's only the father and not the mother, it actually goes higher. I think I know why. In that middle one where you have both mother and father, there's somebody pulling somebody by the elbow.

unknown 32:09

Come on, come on.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

Okay, so and the kids see that. But it's really interesting, it's a psychological thing with children, right? That when only dad, even when mom is not supportive, like that shows the father's will, like, even more than when they're both doing it, you know, same saying so. It's really interesting what what the impact of um a father's religious practice has on the children, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

It's kind of like a reflection of the natural authority of the fatherhood in you know, in the Trinitarian life as well as in the family.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

There's something of that reflection of Trinity having a hierarchy and and and spiritual headship, things like that. Yeah, a lot of interesting things, yeah. Oh, I was saying, you're reflecting the the resistance to faith coming from there. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost I offer this comment too. It's almost like we expect religiosity in in women. For some reason, they they they seem to be more more drawn to faith, and maybe kids make notice when when dad does too, right? So for some reason there's something. But again, to be clear, how many people would say, oh, my faith is strong because of my mom? Like it's not it's not just sort of black and white, you know what I'm saying? You're gonna say, yeah. No, okay, great. So I want to get back to some of the catechism that adds depth to what the textbook offers. So if you look in um that still on that first page, but on the right side, man in paradise, because we want to get to some terminology. The first man was not only created good, but was also established in friendship with his creator and in harmony. So I think what we, you know, we know the term original sin, but what was there before original sin, you could call it original harmony. If you're a musician, you like that especially, right? So original harmony. We'll continue and then see the other terms here. In harmony with himself and with the creation around him, in a state that would be surpassed only by the glory of the new creation in Christ. Continuing. The church interpreting the symbolism of biblical language in an authentic way, in the light of the New Testament and tradition, teaches that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original state of holiness and justice. So you could call it original harmony. You could also call it original holiness and justice. This grace of original holiness was to share in divine life. So to go back to the comment, we believe that that original holiness has not been completely just wiped away and removed, that there's still a desire, a drive, an inclination towards the good, union with God, union with one another, harmony within yourself. So I continue. By the radiance of this grace, all dimensions of man's life were confirmed. As long as he remained in the divine intimacy, man would not have to suffer or die. The inner harmony of the human person, the harmony between man and woman, and finally, the harmony between the first couple and all creation comprised the state called original justice. I think I prefer original harmony. I think original justice sounds a little bit like legalistic to us, you know? Original harmony, I think, kind of really reflects, and I love the way that it's used over and over again, the inner harmony of the human person, the harmony between man and woman, and finally the harmony between the first couple in all creation comprised the state called original justice. So I hope that term becomes familiar to you, not just original sin, but if I were to ask you on a quiz, what was the condition of Adam and Eve before original sin, you would say original harmony or original justice, right? That would be, and we don't want to lose that awareness. Okay, continuing. Next paragraph 377. The mastery over the world that God offered man from the beginning was realized above all within man himself, mastery of self. So again, that sense that we can have virtue, that self-mastery, that's not lost completely. Wounded, but not lost. Um yeah, I can I'll just stop there. I want to add that, especially that terminology, original justice, but what it means, again, I think I like original harmony, because it harmony within himself, harmony with Adam and Eve, harmony with God, harmony with creation, right? Um comments about that phrase or comment or terminology, original harmony, yeah.

unknown 36:51

Because it also sounds like integration.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

Integration is a great word, right? So integration, self-mastery, integration within oneself, self-integrated, integrate with others. Because integration means wholeness, right? Integers, whole numbers. Stephen, think of something.

unknown 37:08

Oh, sorry, I'm just stretching.

SPEAKER_04 37:09

Oh, you're just trying back like when I was a school teacher. No, but I'm just stretching.

unknown 37:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:15

Um, we've been talking about the fall and last last week, Adam and Eve, etc., and the language of revelation. So go to paragraph 387. Only in the light of divine revelation, I'm sorry, only the light of divine revelation clarifies the reality of sin committed at mankind's origins. Without the knowledge revelation gives of God, we cannot recognize sin clearly and are tempted to explain it merely as merely a developmental flaw, a psychological weakness, a mistake, or the necessary consequence of an inadequate social structure, et cetera. What is that saying? It's saying that explaining the brokenness of the human family on earth, if you only look to natural causes for that, you'll go there, right? Social structures, psychology, etc. We profess by faith that it has a spiritual cause. We can't prove that to anybody. Just it's revealed, right? Almost like the Trinity. You can't prove the Trinity, it's revealed. And if you go to the next page, um, here's, I think, another way of thinking about it. Go to page paragraph 389. The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the reverse side of the good news. Isn't that a great way to remember it? Think of it. I've heard preachers say, there's no good news without bad news. You gotta have bad news first. There's no good news unless there's bad news that you're dealing with, right? Bad news. Fall, original sin. Good news, savior, Jesus, right? So to continue there. Paragraph 389. The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the reverse side of the good news that Jesus is the savior of all men, that all need salvation, and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. The church, which has the mind of Christ, knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ. So I want to make very clear: believing in Jesus and believing in original sin are inseparable. Jesus didn't come to save us from psychological flaws, right? God did not become incarnate because of social structures that were imperfect, right? We believe, and again, can't prove this. I want to be clear, we can't prove these things. This is revealed. It is revealed that our first, that the two first parents of the human race fell. Next paragraph, 390. The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language but affirms a primeval event. So remember, there's two creation stories of how God created Adam and Eve. So we we are what's being revealed are the essential truths about our origins. It's not a video to watch on YouTube, how did the human race start? Okay. But also, we talked about last week what do we profess is a truth that we take, you know, on revealed faith. There are two original parents. How the two human bodies came into existence, you can have all sorts of theories, that's fine. But at some point, we profess God created the human souls of two people. That begins the human race, right? And that those two had a fall, right? I want to keep going here because it's explained so well in the catechism. We go to the next page, paragraph 396. And the reason why I like to do the catechism, I'm not teaching this, right? This isn't Father Hare's version of theology. This is the teachings of the church, right? There's a grace in just reading the authoritative teachings. So paragraph 396. God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil spells this out, for in that day you eat of it, you shall die. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Figurative language symbolically evokes. So you see, this is the teaching of the church, right? That Genesis is not a video of how the human race started. Genesis is teaching primeval truths, right? Okay. Symbolically evokes this insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his creator and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom. The next line there, 397. Man tempted by the devil let his trust in his creator die in his heart. Beautiful language. He allowed trust to die in his heart, right? Man tempted by the devil let trust in his creator die in his heart. Going back to original harmony. Original harmony, original trust, right? For Adam and Eve to believe, no, he doesn't want you to eat this because you'll become like God's. Oh, maybe God doesn't want us to be truly happy, right? In my mind, what had to precede the original sin was original doubt, was original mistrust, right? We just celebrated Divine Mercy Sunday last week. Jesus, I trust in you. Just repeat that. Just keep saying it because before sin comes the distrust, right? In any relationship, is that true? The the the sinning against another person is always preceded by a losing trust. There's always a trust element, right? So what a beautiful line. Man tempted by the devil let his trust in the creator die in his heart. You can just feel the pain of reading those words, right? Um I want to offer this other um comment. Has anybody read the book The Shack? Raise your hand, anyone? A few of you have. Has anybody seen the movie The Shack? A few of you have as well. The book is much better than the movie. So many religious movies are B, B rate, as we know. Good people making okay, movies. Um the book is amazing. So I'm gonna tell you that. So this book came out about 20 years ago. Go now, right? It's been around a while. Um the Jack does a very creative way of depicting the Trinity. So creative, you'd be like, Father, you recommend us to read this book? Are you sure?

unknown 44:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

It's so but it's creative, it's poetry, right? You can creative license, artistic license, you can do creative things. But I think the depiction is it it stretches your imagination, makes you think about certain elements of the Trinity. But what I'm trying to say is that that experience of trusting God, wonderfully depicted. I'll just offer that. So if you're a reader, read the book. It's a I I could not stop reading it. I remember it. Next page. Just beautiful, power, just beautifully written. Movie is not bad, but don't think the book is better. It just really is a great great book about talking about the Trinity and the intimacy with God and um and knowing how how much uh we are loved. Um we're almost at the end of time. Comments or questions about this content here today.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 45:33

Is this doctrine of original sin?

SPEAKER_04 45:35

Um watching a um, what were you taught about original sin uh in this Calvinist tradition? What were you taught?

SPEAKER_07 45:42

Definitely like you know, total depravity of that human nature is irreparable.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

Um so therefore, what's the what's the what's the next teaching after that? You're so depraved, irredeemable. What's the next sort of teaching from that that you get?

SPEAKER_07 45:58

It's predestination, yeah. You can't save yourself, right?

SPEAKER_04 46:01

Can't save yourself.

SPEAKER_07 46:03

All of these things, of course, very simplistic and rhetoricalistic. Um, but that you can't save yourself, and so you know you need to save your, it's not your choice. You don't, you know, you know, to that you are chosen.

unknown 46:14

And all of those things.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

The predestination, you're chosen, you can't even choose it, yeah. But growing up that way, then they not recognize like the apostles. What do you mean by the apostles?

SPEAKER_09 46:29

I don't think there's a better example of what we've been talking about this whole class than the apostles. I mean they were all they were all people who had their lives at one time. They they had they were fishermen, they were they have their occupation before Jesus called them.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 46:46

And the fact that, I mean, we we look at them now and we give them that title of apostles, but they were maybe they weren't the best people at the beginning. Yeah, and that there's no better example of salvation on that were were not irreparable than them.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

I'm gonna repeat that for the microphone for the recording. Yeah, great comment. Your comments are both really uh a great combination. So the experience in a Calvinist tradition of the sort of irredeemable double predestination, you can't even choose to follow Jesus. Irreparable. Thank you. Sorry, irreparable, thank you. Um and then Joe's comment that well, but look at the apostles. They were certainly a mess, but they were transformed by following Jesus, being drawn to Jesus. They were also drawn to him. And then going further, they became martyrs, most of them. Like they made a total gift of themselves, um, so they were transformed, right? So, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_07 47:45

Yeah, and then just you know, just where I was going with that is the um in part of my conversion experience, learning the Catholic teaching of so many of the things that I have you know, a lot of instruction on, and you know, a lot of Bible teaching and everything on all of these doctrines, um, but from a different perspective. Sitting with a group of Catholics watching the nursery video on original sin, and then all just being like, uh, what there's another way to look at this? Oh, it was I was just completely like, and I still don't totally understand it. I'm gonna go back and read all this again. Sure, I programmed a certain way, and I do those heresies in my head, you know, but the dad, I was just like, there's oh my goodness, there's a different way of looking at this that I just didn't understand before that changes everything. It goes, you know, and like there are so many lines in this that say like it's how it says it, you know, uh the mystery, how it changes the mystery. If you're if you're starting from a different place and it just oh, it was so eye-boding, but it's like, oh, to pull the thread all the way back. It's not just all about predestination, you know, like pull it all the way back to original sin. Um so just you know, don't take it for granted as a Catholic, and this is how you were, you know, raised with this understanding, and it might seem home-hum to you, but it really does make all the difference.

SPEAKER_04 49:15

Yeah, and I will offer this comment. Thank you. That really helps us all to appreciate, you know, the significance of this because understanding our origins, original harmony, and then what the fall really means, yeah, that that's sets that's the lens through which we are looking at revelation leading to Jesus, right? Um and uh there's something else I'm gonna say. Um the term we use is Christian anthropology, the study of the human person by way of Christian theology. So in the seminary, you have a course. You'll spend a whole semester on just Christian anthropology, how we understand the human person because of our theology. So, what does it mean to be fallen and uh wounded, not depraved, deprived, things like that. So, this is all this is all very foundational. You're right. And thank you for helping us appreciate that seeing that origin well helps us to see everything else that's revealed in in the right uh manner, in the right lens. Yeah. The last thing I want to mention today is I hope that what today did for you is say, you know, the textbook's great, Father, but I'm gonna be looking at this catechism. Like, there's such great content here that I can dig into. So please understand that I I you can you can take the catechism into the chapel, the adoration chapel, and just read a paragraph or two and just pray with it. There's it's written in a way that's really conducive to meditation, right? So just realize that pretty much every topic of theology and and life is in the catechism in one way or another. Just search on your phone. Um, you know, temptation, catechism Catholic Church. Okay, paragraphs 7, 12. I'll go. I want to pray about temptation today, I'm struggling. Or you want to talk about family life or marriage or vocation or holiness or prayer. Like the catechism is a wonderful resource for prayer about any topic. I don't want to say that again. So, looking forward to next week. I think I'm here again next week. Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. World without end. Amen. St. John Paul II, pray for us in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Lots of great comments today. You're you're you're co-teaching this with me in a beautiful way. Yeah. Let me turn my microphone off.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Yes, John.

unknown 51:41

What is the name of the name of the microphone?

SPEAKER_03 51:43

Oh, the Shack.

unknown 51:45

The Shack.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

The Shack. S-H-A-C-K.

SPEAKER_04 51:48

Yeah. Highly recommend it. Where's my microphone under it?