Production Prism
Welcome to the Production Prism, where we explore the dynamic world of film and video production. Hosted by Torrance Hill, an Emmy Award-winning producer and the founder of Noir Prism Studios, our podcast features insightful guests and delves into the diverse experiences and challenges faced by creatives in the industry.
Join us for lively debates on pressing questions, such as the value of a film school degree versus real-world experience. Hear firsthand accounts from versatile guests like videographer Jules, who shares the intricacies of his lifestyle. Kenia Thompson, a seasoned storyteller and producer, who reflects on her two-decade journey in television.
We delve into important topics, such as client negotiations, the significance of community and faith in creative work, and the personal and professional impacts of the production lifestyle. Whether you're an aspiring filmmaker or a seasoned professional, the Production Prism Podcast offers valuable insights and inspiration to navigate your creative journey. Tune in and illuminate your path in the world of production!
Production Prism
Degree vs No Degree
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In this episode of the Production Prism Podcast, Torrance and Jaylin engage in a lively debate on a critical question for aspiring filmmakers: Film School Degree or No Degree?
Hey, what's up, y'all? Welcome to the Production Prism podcast. Today we are going to have a small debate about degree or no degree. In particular, the film school degree. All right, so let's get into it. I'm just gonna start off out the gate and get your initial just quick response degree or no degree.
SPEAKER_04No degree.
SPEAKER_05Okay, okay. All right, so um why no degree?
SPEAKER_04Uh I know your question was degree or no degree, but I will preface that I don't, I'm not against a degree. Okay. It's just I don't have a degree in film. I think I'm doing all right. So that's just the side I'm gonna go with. Um, but as far as why no degree, I think you can create all the same opportunities, just uh, you know, depending on your network, of course. Yeah, um, the things you learn. There's so much free and accessible information that you can find online or just through people, your peers, and all of that stuff. Um and then just off the sheer fact of me not knowing the degree side, like I don't know what you learn in film school.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, I feel like at least for my assumptions, I would assume that it's a lot more technical in a way. Uh at least that's what I would think. Like, I would think you would learn, you know, the fundamental fundamentals of things first. Um, versus like if you go no degree and you go YouTube university, you kind of just kind of feel a vibe, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You pick a niche that you kind of want to lean into, or like even just like if you're going to a consistent resource like on YouTube, you're always getting what that person's talking about. Um, which I could say it might be the same for for film school. I don't know. Like, are they teaching y'all like what is the professor teaching? Is he teaching what he knows? Is he teaching what's in the textbook?
SPEAKER_05Like, yeah. So I'm gonna I'm gonna say I'm I'm definitely degree. And the reason why I'm degree is for one, it's gonna be the network.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna be degree for all the reasons that you probably wouldn't think. Um, it's gonna be for the network. Um, it's definitely is gonna be for um, it's kind of like network again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Being able to connect with people that are in the industry a little bit quicker. Um I will say you kind of get to experiment while you're in undergrad. Yeah. Um, you can experiment and fail without stuff being on the line for real.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like other than your grades. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Other than your grades, you know, which ain't nobody gonna ask about. So you get that C, ain't nobody gonna care.
SPEAKER_01It is what it is.
SPEAKER_05But um I would say, so I'm I'm not from a traditional traditional film school. So I went to Howard, and you know, at the time the program was radio, television, and film. So you kind of learned, you learn TV, you learn radio, you learn film production as well.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um, and you could kind of pick where you somewhat wanted to focus. Like if you was an audio person, you can you can be like, hey, I want to focus on audio, or I want to focus in broadcast television, yeah, or I want to focus on film. Um but I feel like there were downsides to it. Cause like some of my professors, I ain't gonna hold you. Some of them I was like, your work ain't all that great, dog. You know what I'm saying? So I do and like take it to the no-degree point of like if I was on YouTube and I seen that person work, I'd be like, I just ain't gonna listen.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Exactly. That's my whole thing. It's like you don't get to pick your teacher or like that part of your I mean your professor. Um and we're talking about the creative industry in a way, like I'm not in the whole radio and television broadcast world, so I'm in a different route. Like, and that's what I would first assume about film school too. I'm thinking like the most traditional types of films. Like, I'm thinking, like you said, your your broadcast. Of course, I'm thinking, I'm thinking of narrative film. Um, at least for me, like at the space I'm in, I'm in socials, uh, advertisement, brand strategy, like stuff like that. So, I mean, I'm I'm sure they have it, but I got my degree in marketing. So I was able to take that degree and apply it to what I do now rather than film school. Like, yeah, I just don't know.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I mean, so what y'all be learning?
SPEAKER_01What did y'all learn?
SPEAKER_05That part, then let's let's talk about this. Let's let's put a different perspective on it. Because we'll come back to the learning part. Yeah. And then we'll even come back to the um the career path part.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um, but let's talk about the like the debt versus gear debt. Right? Um so like if a creator has $50,000 today, are they better off spending on a degree or a high-end cinema package in a year's worth of maybe, you know, doing some low budget or spec project?
SPEAKER_04Personally, I'm gonna say it depends. Like I'm gonna go like get some gear, but I don't want to say like get the most expensive gear because that still doesn't help you. Like what what you know is what's most important. Um, because there's people I know who don't have gear, they just shoot with whatever production provides. Yeah um, but it also is nice to you know have gear on standby. I can go shoot this passion project tomorrow. And it's like I don't have to ask anybody for anything, I could just go and do it. Now, if I think about putting that money towards school, see, this is a hard question. I didn't even pay for school on my side of things. Exactly. So it's like I really can't um relate to that at all. Like, I don't know what it's like to be person, I don't know what it's like to be in Denver.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean, that's real. So I'm I'm I'm a partial scholarship person, definitely got school loans. I'm gonna tell you this. You got 50 racks. This is my perspective. You got 50 racks. I'm gonna I'm gonna go off what you're saying. I'm gonna say go get the gear, right? Don't spend the whole 50 on the gear, exactly, right? That's crazy. Um, that's that's crazy work, bro. You go you go spend 50 racks in gear, like come holler at me because let me get some of that money so I can spend some. But in and in all seriousness, I don't know too many programs where you can get like a four-year degree for 50,000. Unless you're like partial scholarship, something like that. Um now I would say you could probably go to a certificate, get a certificate program or maybe community college, something like that. If you want to go through that learning experience. But I would say take that 50,000. You might be able to find a solid online course through someone that's that's trusted. Pick a lane that you want to be in. You better know what if you want to be a DP, you better know right now. You want to be a sound guy, you better know before you start spending that money. And then properly invest that into gear that you can use on small to medium scale projects. Ain't no point if you're going out to go spend half of that money on, you know, the most expensive camera and lens kit, and the only gigs you're gonna get is gonna be low to mid-level music videos or low to mid-level um, you know, business real estate videos. Like, you just you're not being smart with your money. So that I mean, that's how I feel.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I agree. I mean, like I even at the stage I'm at now, of course, like if I do some deep thought and I have $50,000, I could find some gear on how like I still wouldn't spend $50,000 on just gear. Like, there's so much more that you can invest in. Like, and I even think about as far as like where we're at as a camera, like where we're at in the camera world, is like it's the gear is good all the way around, like at multiple budgets. And then, like I said last podcast, it's about the story you tell.
SPEAKER_00It is.
SPEAKER_04Um, it is like the most popular camera right now, FX3. You can get that for $3,500, yeah. Some lenses, some lights. You can get everything I think you need with $10,000 to $15,000.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, now if you shoot in, I don't know, like insurance commercial, like big time stuff, of course, you're gonna go art. Like, that's just a whole nother world.
SPEAKER_05That's a whole nother monster. And out the gate, you're not you're not able to. You're not even thinking that. You don't even know what that is. I don't even know how I didn't now.
SPEAKER_04That might be the difference from between film school and not going to film school, is like, okay, those are things that they talk about in film school as far as like how big the productions are. Like, I didn't know when I was first starting how big these things are. Like when you got the budget is $300,000 for a 30-second spot on a commercial or like the Super Bowl stuff, that stuff is millions of dollars. Um, and even knowing that they cost millions and dollars, I didn't my brain couldn't process. Like, I'm like, what are they spending a million dollars on? I don't know. But now being on set, I have seen some stuff where I'm like, Yeah, and I was gracious.
SPEAKER_05I would say this from like I said, I didn't go to traditional film school. So being at Howard, being in there in their film program, we didn't really get a gauge of that. There's a lot of things that Howard taught me that I'm like, oh, that's great. And there are things I'm just like, man, why didn't we learn this? Yeah. And like budgets, like the scale of productions.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Like that wasn't really talked about. Like you just kind of got you knew the arena of like, hey, this is a television, this is a commercial, this is a film. Now, where should the money or how should the budget look like? Yeah, I didn't know. So I think that that's kind of like one of those things that's kind of like a point in your corner of like of no film school. Because you get on a set, especially you start talking to the right people, you start to get a gauge of like, oh, this is this is how much this is. Yeah. Even like day rates, right? Like, film school ain't teaching me nothing about no day rates. Exactly. Like, it was just like, all right, go get a job.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. That too. I think that's another thing, is like me personally, I never really wanted no job. Like, I don't dream of a job, as a lot of people say. Um, and and that was a thing of me not, I didn't even know like what I went to college, like I said, I went to college for marketing, and I didn't even know about this world. So to even think about like getting a job as, I don't know, videographer, like, because I was just watching a podcast and it was this girl, she's uh she was a lead videographer going out of college for um one of the like food box companies where you can order food, you know, buy box or whatever. And like that is cool, but it doesn't appeal to me. And I can't imagine you you you do I would not imagine you learning about that in college, or I just would think it would be, I would just think news station or simple you shoot movies or you shoot TV shows. Like I'm not, I wouldn't even think all in between. Now, this is five, six years ago. I was I would assume the curriculum is way different in college right now. Like if you go to film school, yeah, it's it's I have no idea what they're what they're teaching them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I think to like what you're saying, and and we can talk a little bit more about job market. Um for me, I only got my degree because my dad had told me to get my degree. My dad's in the industry, he's an engineer, he works in broadcast. Um, he's like, yeah, you're just gonna need the paperwork. Because the side that he was on, he knew hiring managers when it came to like for certain jobs, I would say broadcast, um, um corporate video production. Like, say if you want to be a house video uh producer or videographer for like a government organization or a big organization, they're gonna look for a degree. Yeah, or they're gonna look for a whole ton of experience. So you would have had to be sitting and doing it for you know 10 years or something ridiculous. You know, they try to offset the degree, like, hey, if you ain't got a four-year degree, we want you to have eight years of you know, just world experience.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_05And so I think that having a degree kind of opened up that side of it, at least for me. Yeah, um, and that was the benefit. Cause like I could graduate, I can, I can work up, you know, the skill level to go and be at a at a television station.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I could be a full time. Um or like what I did, my path was, you know, I went to school and shortly after I worked for a government organization. Cause they looked for the bachelor's degree.
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
SPEAKER_05I couldn't even, I couldn't even get in the door if I didn't have a degree. Yeah. And some corporate work was like that. Um, now I know I know folks that have gone and worked with like bigger networks like HBO and stuff like that. I'm not I'm not familiar with that. Maybe they did want that degree, and some of them went to get to get their masters.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_05And I know that the masters was a thing too. Like if you wanted to be in in some sort of communication management role, sometimes like house producers, yeah, they want them to have their masters.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_05But that was like that's that side of it.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_05That's come and get a check or be on on this, maybe on a on a higher end project or something like that. But then like the side that we're on now, a lot of that's irrelevant.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. It's like, I think, like, like I will keep saying it's about who you know.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_04And um, I think now like social presence is such a key factor.
SPEAKER_00It's big.
SPEAKER_04Um, like, like I said, I was just watching this podcast, is like, all right, if I don't go to school and get this degree and go the traditional route, get a job with a TV network or something like that. I'll just look at the other side of it. Like, if I think about the way people are getting jobs right now, like I think of there's kids who are like 18 years old who haven't even been to college who are getting big time contracts because of their social, their social, like the social proof they have. Like, yeah, there's people I'll there are kids I would hire to because they're good at it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And they didn't, they're not even out of, they barely touch a high school or touching college yet. It's some kids that are just talented, and I think like that's just kind of where we're at with things. Um, is you can simply build a following on social media or whatever, or just by word of mouth, um, like just let's take for instance a Gather.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04What are they going to school for? Film school for?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You just need to get on set and help build stuff, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I and I and I agree. I think I think there are roles like that. I do think that some of the social media stuff is right now, it's still the exception. Like there's, and I think it's the exception because it's not formalaic. Yeah. Like you can't, it's really hard to build that formula unless, like you said, like you, you're a young person, you got a lot of time, you can build that following, you can, you know, you can invest. That's a way to kind of get into it. Um, but I will say on the college side, the biggest thing, like I said earlier, is the network. Because my first job out of college was based off of my Howard Network. Literally sat on the phone with a guy, he said, Hey, I got you from a contact of mine. They said, you know, you all it was a guy I played in band with. He played in band with this guy. I didn't even know the direct, the previous guy that would have the job. He was just a Howard alum. Contacted a guy I knew, and the guy's like, hey, I know a guy.
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
SPEAKER_05And so, like, that, you know, that that that's kind of been the thing. Yeah. And especially for like business for me now, a majority of my business have has been from people that referred me from Howard. Or, or Howard Network.
SPEAKER_04Like, see?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay. I think I played devil advocate advocate. Uh your experience is different. It's Howard. Y'all network is different regardless.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, whatever industry you're in. It's just a different, like, y'all got something, y'all got a little pipeline, a little coke.
SPEAKER_05That's wild. Howard network, wild.
SPEAKER_04Like, yeah, I personally can't think of too many instances like where Elon specifically was like, because like I might have got a few jobs from Elon, but like just being Elon alone, but it's not like, oh, I have a contract with Elon and I can go back anytime and be like, it's just not the same.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Now, like if I think about all the jobs I've gotten, like even you, I didn't meet you through Howard. I met you through a friend.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Just a friend, like literally, just a friend who also worked in the industry. And I think it's about where you put yourself, where, like I say, you go to these works, be these people's workshops, like that, and you know, people are doing events and like stuff like that now where you can go and meet people, network, and actually connect. And um hopefully you find a common interest because like your your alumni, I don't know. It's like how many people can you be close with where they're gonna be like, yo, I got this guy, like, and sometimes you just not connected no more. Like there, there's you're just not connected anymore. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Um, because there's several people once college finished, that was the end of it. Um, but it's like, how do I use the network that I have now to continue to grow?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, and that's why I just find myself like always going different places. Like I try to get out as much as I can um to meet different people and connect and uh see what they're about, what they're shooting.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because I mean that's even like on my side of I'm I'm kind of like both sides, and I'm a I'm someone that's like for hire and then I hire people.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_05So I try to play both sides of it. But even like how we met, like I'm always searching. Yeah, I'm looking for that portfolio. Like if I find somebody with a solid portfolio, I might reach out to them.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_05Or like, you know, I always ask you, hey Jalen, you know somebody? Because I'm gonna go to my the people I worked with, exactly, good work ethic, I'm gonna ask them first, and then I'll find somebody else. So like would you would you say that the degree is becoming more of like a backup than like as opposed to like your your real being like that primary type? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Like, I'm not even considering my degree yet. Like, it's so secondary to me, like for me. Um, I don't ever think, and it's so funny that I got a it's just so crazy that we're talking about this. Like, I literally got a text message from my old academic advisor about coming to an event at Elon at the end of the month. But this is the first time that's really happened. Um but yeah, I would say, like, like I said, I'm more so who am I already shooting with? Who are they shooting with? And how can we all shoot together? Like that's because if I just think of my a friend that I have in college who they're not in this industry, sometimes they might they might know like you, you do corporate work, but your friend, that friend that's gonna help you, they might know a sports videographer. Yeah, sometimes the worlds just don't mesh. Like, even though we're in the same industry, we can't really help each other. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Versus if I talk to somebody who's on set or I just, you know, we yeah, somebody who's on set and I show them my portfolio, and they're like, oh, this would make really good sense if y'all two work and could connect it with each other, like y'all have a similarity, and they have the person who connected us has an understanding of what the industry is and how they can help me. Now, just because we went to school together, like you just don't know. You don't know, especially in this industry, like it's so gate kept in a way. Yeah, you got terms that you never even heard of. Yeah, like somebody I was on set yesterday, even though I knew it, it just took me a second to register. Somebody was like, Bring me a hot brick. Do you know what that means?
SPEAKER_05Oh no, I don't.
SPEAKER_04That means you need like I just need some comms that is fresh, like ones that's not about to die.
SPEAKER_05Like you, because I've been like new battery. Yo, cuz what?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05Like hey, what? You know, I ain't got no hot bricks.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no hot sandwiches, nothing for you, dog. What you need, exactly.
SPEAKER_04Yes, no, no, but it's a crazy industry.
SPEAKER_05It is because like um, and uh and that's a good segue. Into the things that we don't learn in film school versus things things we learn on set. And I will say, like a lot of there's a lot of set talk that I've learned by being on set. That's broad, and now broadcast sets are different than commercial sets.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05A documentary set can be different than a commercial set. I mean, some of them share the same languages, right? And then also just remember, it also depends on how fast you're moving.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But um I know that there's just terms that like remember being in TV, you know, terms that they just used, that it was just like, oh, I didn't know that was a thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know, um, like, you know, pedestal, um, you know, raising cameras up and down.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um it was just so many things that like we probably learned it in film school. Maybe I forgot about it. Because at that time, you just learned a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But also, I would say, like, one of the things I didn't learn in film school, which, or let me say this. One of the things I felt was useless in film school, um, and in another episode, I talk about my journey. Like at one point, I started at Howard, I went to Columbia College in Chicago and then went back to Howard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Columbia College is more like a traditional film school.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05One thing I I found very pointless, and I love film, like the actual format of film. But I think it's very ridiculous to have a project that students have to film on actual film. Because I feel like that doesn't translate to anything. Um, and I know a lot of people are like, man, you don't know what you're talking about, you dumb, you stupid, whatever. Call what you want. I don't care.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But I understand that film is like how we all got here with the digital world. You know, I understand that you're gonna learn how to, you know, treat your footage precious and all this stuff, whatever. But I feel like there's a lot of things digitally that you can learn without having to go through the headache of, I shot on a bolex.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05Because we had a project, we had to shoot on a bolex. It was cool, whatever. But am I like way much better of a cinematographer, a video producer because I've done that? No.
SPEAKER_04That's interesting. Yeah. Because not that I think you need to know it, I think that would be a cool experience.
SPEAKER_05It is.
SPEAKER_04Like, I think that would be cool if I would if I was in school and like if I was in school right now, I've never shot anything on actual. I've maybe once, and I was just helping a friend.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But like that would be cool because the type of work that I do, I like to incorporate different types of looks. Like, and I wish I I wish I had a film camera to incorporate into my my videos that I do now. Um, so yeah, I think that's interesting that you say that. Now, I don't'm saying I disagree or not. I would want to like that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think it's cool, but I think the main reason why I'm saying is because the there's so much to learn on on the actual digital side of filmmaking. I mean, you can you can take a class and be like, yo, we gotta learn how to actually properly expose digital so that it looks correct.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean, like, yeah, you can learn exposure from film, you know, you you can use a light meter, you gotta use all these other tools to get there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But I just felt like, and this, I mean, this was this was way before AI, but they're still doing this now. It's like, yo, hey, we got bigger fish to fry.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Sure, let's do a fun little project with it, but let's not spend too much time on it. That's that's kind of how I feel.
SPEAKER_04That's crazy. Because I I'm not gonna lie, I think I would be on the other side of it. I think y'all should do that project because, like, okay, imagine somebody not in a corporate world, like somebody who's in more narrative film, where like if you think of the sinners, they shot that mostly on film. I have no idea how to do that. Like, I don't even know. The only thing I know, yeah, I know what a light meter is. I don't know what it really does. And I don't even know how I would get the experience right now to shoot film unless somebody has something and they just that's what they do. But I think that that's interesting. I would literally go, I would be like, we needed that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because like like I I appreciate the experience, but like I've only done it once. And that's and that's kind of like what I'm getting at.
SPEAKER_04But that's the type of work you do. That's not just that's just not you wouldn't use that in your type of work, but somebody else would.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but now maybe if I went to a more traditional film school, maybe I wouldn't have done it once, and maybe it would make more sense. Okay, you know what I'm saying? Because I feel like, like you said, like they shot Cinners, um, which is got all these nominations, by the way. Um they shot that on film.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And that's that's dope. And there's a lot of other films they shot on film, but how often, even if you're a narrate, if even if you're on the narration side of this, how often would someone that's not on a major production shoot on film?
SPEAKER_03Not often.
SPEAKER_05You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03Not often.
SPEAKER_05But even if you wanted to, just like on the digital side, how would you get your reps in? And that's the that's the issue I have with it. It's like, if it is gonna be part of a film school curriculum, then make it like, bruh, this year, all y'all doing is shooting on film. So then it's like it's almost like habit, like how you're gonna pick up your camera on a daily slight, hey, I know I'm checking for SD card, battery, audio sound. Now I know, hey, this is how I suppose to load this. I gotta, you know, dark bag it, yeah, whatever. And then when I'm done with it, this is how I gotta handle it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I think, I mean, yeah, I feel like this topic is be so like like you can deep dive into it so much because I just I'm now I'm starting to think about like just budgeting. Like film is expensive.
SPEAKER_05It is.
SPEAKER_04Maybe Howard just couldn't afford to teach y'all on a normal basis, you know, or uh school of Chicago. Um that's part of what like that's something that comes in my mind is like, can they afford to buy film and do all the things that it costs to continue to do it?
SPEAKER_05Um and I love film. Literally, I shoot photography, film photography all the time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I love it. I just don't know how it fits in that in that college curriculum if it's not gonna be a long-term goal.
SPEAKER_04I think one thing about college going to film school, I think it pushes you more to one side of like the type of stuff you shoot. I think it pushes you more to a corporate stuff.
SPEAKER_05I think so. Yeah, you know what I mean. I think so. Because then at the end of the day, it's about getting a job. You're trying to, I mean, yeah, you're learning the skills, you're learning how to shoot, you're learning all that stuff, but in the day, it's still like your resume. Yeah, resume, your resume. And then they talk about your real too.
SPEAKER_04But like, how much do you taught creativeness in film school?
SPEAKER_05You have a class project or so where it's like, hey, write this, be creative on that. Um, but like I said, it's it's hard for me to talk about it because Howard wasn't a traditional film school. Okay. Howard wasn't like it's not in LA, it's not in New York, it's not like, hey, we're gonna, at the time when I was there, they wasn't pushing a lot of like pipeline to a studio.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, and I mean there's some Howard Alum that have, you know, went into narrative film. Yeah. Um, but I didn't I didn't see that as a as a direct path. I knew I would have had to go get a master's degree or like go to somewhere else that was an actual film school to be like, okay, I want to be a narrative filmmaker, narrative director. Um, but I do feel like, at least for me, I feel like Howard was was great for if you wanted to go into broadcast, if you want to go into corporate, like, you know, um, corporate filmmaking, commercial, not so much. I don't think, I don't think that they gave you the tools to be like to be as precise as commercial requires.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05As far as like lighting, shooting. That would have been something I think you have to go and get your masters for, and then kind of line up for that. Um, but yeah, like even like general narrative, independent. Hey, how would it make you independent? I think Howard prepares you for um, even like myself now, like to be an entrepreneur that has that has your own production studio.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05That you can do, you know, they kind of really push you into that individual be self-sustaining.
SPEAKER_03Got it. Freelancer in a way.
SPEAKER_05Freelancer, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I mean I'm still sticking with my side. No degree.
SPEAKER_05No degree, no degree for Jalen. Uh, let me see. Anything else? I don't know, it's making a lot of noise. Um I mean, is it anything that's like so no degree in your side? Final statements on no degree.
SPEAKER_04I'm blanking. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I would okay, I would I would I'm gonna reframe the question. Are you pushing no degree because you feel like it's our industry's easy enough to access without a degree?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_04I don't really feel like and this is grand scheme of things. I don't feel like most job, most industries you get into need a degree unless you're gonna get be a doctor or like you know, something, you know, people who do stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00Industrial engineer.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like okay, you I don't know where you're gonna learn that at. But dude, there's so many, it's so accessible, like in any way. All you gotta do is put yourself out there. Um, and of course, like you talked about the network and whatnot, but all it takes is one person. Like, one person could put you in the right room. That's what it took for me. One person. And so funny. I was on on set yesterday, yeah, and the uh locations guy, he's like, Have we met before? I was like, Yeah, you was a location guy on the first first set I've ever been on. Yeah, and it's been four three, four years. Um, but it all it takes, and that's that one that one commercial I was on for Advanced Auto Parts, pushed me to all the way where I'm at right now. Yeah. No degree. Um, so yeah, I just think, and hopefully, and it may not work for everybody that way. I'm very fortunate the way it has happened for me, where I met some people on that set that were cool. We hung out, met again, saw each other on another set, and it that just pushed me to more stuff. Um, everybody doesn't have that, but there's several routes to get to the mango, you know. Everybody's path isn't the same. Um, but yeah, I'm gonna go no degree because I think I think the no no the no degrees are no degrees, just we getting it out the mud. I think we're getting it out of the mud. It's a little it's it comes a little different when you're getting out the trenches. I respect it, you know. That's just me. But yeah, you know, well you save some money.
SPEAKER_05You know I'm at I'm I'm degree. I got some. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna always push it. Um uh much like how my father pushed it for me, you know, it's it's just that piece of paper.
SPEAKER_04I got something for you real quick. Yeah, before I forget, I'm sorry to cut you off.
SPEAKER_05Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04It's like, all right, you were talking about you were talking about something. Yeah, I'm like, why do I need to go to film school for four years? Four years? Yeah. Like, how much are you learning in four years?
SPEAKER_05Oh, it's tough. I ain't gonna hold you.
SPEAKER_04I've been in business for four years. I can imagine like just learning for four years.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's tough.
SPEAKER_04What does the curriculum look like?
SPEAKER_05It's school is is and the main reason why I'm gonna push degree. Um said my father, he pushed it on me as far as like just having that piece of paper. You know, there's nothing nobody can can do or say, I mean, you you have your degree, so you understand that concept. But the thing that that four-year curriculum teaches you outside of film school, it's gonna be those skills that I think you can't, well, you can possibly get it outside of school, but I think it's some soft skills. It's um it's goal setting, it's for me, it's it's um it's determination, it's it's grit. I think they say if you if you had a high GPA, it's more of a it's not a show of intelligence, it's a show of diligence, right? You're you're diligent enough to to do certain things a certain way because it was asked and requested. And I think that's a lot of what like and a lot of reason why the corporate industry requires a degree. Because they're like, hey, I know if I tell you to be here at 9 a.m. each day, you're not gonna show up at 9 10 and think that it's okay. Exactly. And if you do, you understand that you're out, right? Right?
SPEAKER_04My thing, all right. I agree with you 100%.
SPEAKER_00Uh huh.
SPEAKER_04So going back to this whole argument, degree or no degree, yeah. I will change my final answer to no film degree. Like, you don't need a film degree to be in the film industry. Now, do I think college is great for networking, learning diligence? All the things that it takes to be in a corporate world, 100%. I I agree with what you're saying 100%, because there's people you can tell, I'm not gonna say you can always tell when somebody hasn't been to school, but there's like the little lessons that you learn about being late to class or missing this many days, like you don't show up to class two, three times, you fail out. It just is what it is. Like, um, and you can't learn you you don't learn that not going to school.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you don't.
SPEAKER_04So if we're talking a film degree, yeah, okay, but going to school, I think is important. Yeah. Or learn if you want to be in the corporate world in a way, because we still are in a way in the corporate world, like we deal with corporate clients, um, where we have to be to certain places on time and deliver this at this time, like you gotta have your homework done at 1159. Like, I think those things are important to learn. Yes. So I okay, I side with you on that.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so you start with me on that. Now I'll say yes to film degree as well. And now for film degree, even though you know, I've talked a little trash about shooting on on actual film, which can be, you know, anyone can have their own benefits from that. Um, I am going to say like developing, finding yourself as a as a filmmaker, um, being able to find that path of, hey, this is what I want to do if you didn't know. Um, and you do find a network of folks that you may potentially call up to work with. Um, but I mean, yeah, you can find that outside of having a degree.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But my final point of film degree is I know for some of the jobs that I had, they wanted to see that degree.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And whether, whether it's film, communications, they wanted to see that degree in that realm. Um, but you know, I will I will step back a little bit too and go to the no degree side of yes, you can find people that that you will work that you will want to work with without a degree. Yeah, you can learn some valuable skills. Um, I think Kel, does Kel have his film degree? Is he I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_04He went to uh he's like graphic design design school.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I know he's more like that side. Yeah, but homie, I mean homie, he he's he knows more than most people.
SPEAKER_04He knows more than most people when it comes to light and stuff.
SPEAKER_05Like he's he's nice, you know. Um, there's some people I work with on on my company side, yeah. Solid.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_05So I don't I don't want to be like draw a line in the sand, but I think there's two sides to it. When and I feel like we we kind of went through it really well. For sure. Yeah. Good. Yeah.