WEBVTT 00:00:00.959 --> 00:00:03.759 God does not need you to be confirmed. 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:10.080 The question is whether confirmation will be beneficial to you in your spiritual journey. 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:12.080 You don't get extra privileges at St. 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:14.400 Thomas, you don't get extra rights. 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:19.280 It's an opportunity for a bishop to bless the faith that's in you. 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:25.679 And we we like ritual because we like good stories that take us places. 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:39.280 And for many of us, the ritual could be I've had faith a long time, but I'm just finding myself not only at home, but at hope in the episcopal way of doing church, and that's the path I want to walk. 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:47.679 But all of us will ultimately say something different, and the right is based on the bishop blessing the faith that is in you. 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:49.439 That's the goal. 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:55.280 Now, we've had to change things up because Bishop Monterroso was gonna come on the 21st. 00:00:55.920 --> 00:01:04.319 And then he sort of asked Beg to come on the 7th so that he can be with his spouse in Christmas, who lives in Costa Rica. 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:13.599 So we've pushed up confirmation to Advent 2, which is interesting and great. 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:21.359 Um so that'll be December 7th, which means we're gonna not speed through this. 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:23.680 We're not speeding through this at all. 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:25.920 We're still taking the same amount of time. 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:32.079 The only difference is we are gonna have a meeting on the 23rd in which we talk about the Bible. 00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:44.719 The good news for you is if you can't be here for any reason, we have the last two years of videos of us doing this, and I'm making a sound file that'll go on our SoundCloud page as well. 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:49.280 It occurred to me, video sound, I don't know, let's just do it different for a change. 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:54.159 So if you miss one and want to review it, you can. 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.040 I don't want you to turn this into me. 00:01:57.840 --> 00:01:58.480 You can. 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:06.239 If you're an A student like I was, this might be delightful for you to say, I checked you and I checked you, right? 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:08.800 You may want to do that, but I don't need you to do this. 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:11.680 If you want to be confirmed, the bishop will confirm you. 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:19.919 And knowing all of you in the room, as little or as much as I do, I know enough to say, I'm proud to present you to the bishop for confirmation. 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:20.319 I am. 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:21.599 I'm already happy to do that. 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.280 So hopefully what we do will be beneficial and interesting to you. 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:28.240 Um if it's not, you can say, pause. 00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:31.199 I don't actually care about what you're saying. 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:36.400 What I want to know is the following thing, and I'll try to make a pivot in the moment, okay? 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:38.240 Because this should be useful for you. 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.759 I don't want to convert you to my faith, heaven forbid. 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.560 I want us to confirm the faith that's in you. 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:46.080 Does that make sense? 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:50.800 In about two weeks, I'm going to ask you how many of you are up for confirmation? 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:58.800 Because we do something different at our parish for confirmands than we do for those renewing or receiving in terms of a token. 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:00.719 Just so you know, right? 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:02.479 We we do something a little different. 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:10.879 So I'll I'll ask, and you'll tell me I want to be confirmed or I want to be received, and we'll proceed from there, or hey, I want to renew my vows. 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:15.280 Um, those are different parts of the service, if that makes sense. 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.599 So I'm not expecting you to do anything other than what you want. 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:23.680 Can I ask you the difference between those three? 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:24.800 Absolutely. 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.599 In some ways, I mean, so what we say, it's like similar to baptism. 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:32.719 We say when you're baptized, it worked. 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:39.039 If you were baptized Lutheran or Southern Baptist, we don't need to do it again because God's grace worked the first time. 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:44.159 Which means if you've been confirmed somewhere else, we say we're gonna receive you. 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:47.599 So you're not, we're not redoing it, we're receiving you. 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:58.000 If you're renewing your confirmation, maybe you were confirmed a long time ago, and it's sort of like remembering your baptism, which we do every year, and every week we have the holy water font. 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.639 That's so you can remember your baptism, right? 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:06.400 Live into those vows knowing that God loves you and you can't get away from God as much as you want and try. 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:11.120 Um, confirmation is a little different if you've not been confirmed before. 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:17.279 We try to say, let's wait till we're 16 so we've got a little more time, because you only do get to do this once. 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:28.160 And confirmation is we claim for ourselves uh the faith and promise and gift of grace that was made when we were born, and especially when we were baptized. 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:33.920 Some of us were baptized when we were quite young, and I'll say I was baptized as an adult when I was 10, as an adult. 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:35.279 Boy, I didn't know anything. 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:40.800 So uh confirmation is the chance to say, hey, my brain's developed, my life's developed, and I still choose this. 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:42.160 Like I want this. 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:48.959 And that was an important faith milestone for me to have a bishop say, God bless you that you want this. 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:56.000 And ritually, the reason it's just a one-time thing is because the this is this is an episcopal office, service, right? 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:57.519 So we can't do this. 00:04:57.680 --> 00:04:59.839 Only bishops can do it in the Episcopal Church. 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:06.480 And there is a special prayer, and he does call and ask upon the Holy Spirit to like descend upon you to empower you to give you those gifts. 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:07.839 It's a it's a special prayer. 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:15.360 Now, who knows what happens in that prayer, but it's a it's a one-time special prayer that the bishop does for a person when they want to make that hinge moment, right? 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:18.639 And so that's why it's a has this happened in another place. 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:19.839 You know, we're gonna honor that. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:25.920 But I hope you'll hear, and we'll talk about the sacraments um in two weeks. 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:34.079 The sacraments are not things we do to earn God's favor, they speak to our human need about grace being embodied. 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:37.600 And and confirmation's no different from the Eucharist that way. 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:38.959 We need embodied grace. 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:40.560 Well, that's what I think. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.600 And if you think they're magic, you belong too. 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:44.240 Right? 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:49.680 So it's it's not it's your faith that's being confirmed, not not mine. 00:05:50.720 --> 00:06:00.399 Um maybe if we're interested, we willing, we could go around the table, and if you would just say your name, I'd be really grateful. 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:12.480 And and maybe if you could add to that, if there was one thing you really wanted to get out of the next five weeks, or hey, I'm not committing to coming back, but since I'm here today, I'd like this. 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:14.959 I I'd be I'd be grateful. 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:22.959 So my name's Mike, and I'm just really looking forward to hearing how your story intersects the the church's story. 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.959 That's what I'm most interested in. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:33.279 Um yeah, I'm Sean, and I am probably most interested in hearing what is it about this tradition that makes you want to confirm your own faith in it. 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:39.759 And when I'm listening for that, um, what is the thing that is meeting a need inside of you or calling you forward? 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:41.360 Uh I'm Reggie. 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:50.319 Um I did this like Mike mentioned when I was 13, 14, and uh that was like twenty-something years ago. 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:56.160 So hoping uh I can uh go through this as an adult and get something different. 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:09.519 My name is Jillian, and I grew up in the Catholic Church, so I'm interested in learning the difference between the people of Catholic faith and uh making a commitment to morning, my name is Al. 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:15.279 I didn't want to put my daughter about the daughter. 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:19.839 So years back, and I'm here to do it again with myself. 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:27.600 The one thing I love, I'm a pilot, so I love like manuals and rule books. 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:33.680 So I think that he loves to hear me talk to him about the prayer book. 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:36.800 And all the stuff is in there, so that's my little thing. 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:46.879 I I think a later adult again. 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:34.720 I don't know. 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:38.799 I was confirmed Catholic. 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:42.639 I feel like I did it more for my grandmother than myself. 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:50.320 So I'm here to learn and and and make that decision for me rather than Valerie. 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:55.120 I was confirmed at age twelve, and I'm much, much older than that now. 00:08:55.440 --> 00:09:01.440 And I've been an Episcopalian most well, all my life, and I'm just renewing my vow. 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:03.440 Just want to say it one more time. 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:04.720 Thank you. 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:11.440 I'm moving, and I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church in the early 80s. 00:09:12.399 --> 00:09:21.360 I left some years after that, I became a Catholic, and now I'm returning to the Episcopal Church. 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:25.200 And I suspect I'll be renewing. 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:40.799 My kids are only like about three or four years old. 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:46.399 Uh so I was actually confirmed at that time because I was an adult accepting. 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.720 And I have to decide what I'm doing right now. 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.759 Um I definitely want to be received. 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.799 And I'm looking forward to understanding the Episcopal. 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:02.559 I'm Kathy. 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.279 I was raised Catholic, so in uh second grade. 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:09.200 One Sunday I had first Holy Communion. 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.440 The following Sunday we were confirmed. 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:14.240 We were so adult, right? 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:20.960 Uh well I joined the Catholic Episcopal Church because my husband is Episcopal. 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:27.679 I have I love it because it's the same beautiful liturgy, but it's a civilized Catholic Church. 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:40.399 Well, they do, they let priests get married, they let women be priests, and they let people be priests, you know, is like a democracy whereas the Catholic Church is very much like the military, top-down do as you're told. 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:50.159 And I was received into the Episcopal Church in the early 80s, but I would just like to renew my because I don't know very much Episcopal Church. 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:52.480 Thank you. 00:10:53.679 --> 00:11:10.720 I'm I was confronted in the Episcopal Church in high school, and it was again just that's what you did, and I I wanted to do it, but I'm here to renew and remember why I did it now as an adult. 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:23.440 And also my husband couldn't be here today, but he grew up Catholic and he would like to be received um in the Episcopal Church, and I'm very excited to do this with him. 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:24.399 Thank you. 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:25.759 Hi, I'm Jack. 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:35.519 I got baptized at a very young age, and I never uh really understood it, and I'm looking forward to understanding like what's around it and understanding the other traditions of the Episcopal Church. 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:36.639 Thank you. 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:45.519 Okay, so I'll do my best, and if at any point we're not structuring things in a way that meets your needs, like I said, truly is your time. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:46.480 It's your time. 00:11:46.639 --> 00:12:04.720 Uh what I had planned for us to kind of talk about, and you'll have to stop me from getting all lectury here, is just about a little bit of the history of the church, where we sort of came from, and a couple of pivot moments that help us know where we are. 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:13.279 I'll try to do this succinctly and not like overload you, but um, maybe the thing to start with is what church means. 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:17.919 Um church is a, it's interesting, it's a really a Greek word that means gathering. 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.679 So it's very similar from synagogue, which means getting together. 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:23.919 Church is a gathering. 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:38.720 Which reminds us, I I'd like to hope, that a lot of times in an individualistic culture, we think what's in it for me, but the church really the word implies how are we going to do this together? 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:40.399 How are we gonna do this together? 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:43.360 And we've had a lot of twists and turns historically. 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:53.840 So starting way, way back, right, seems like Jesus went to synagogue, and it synagogue was a place where you studied and you learned together. 00:12:54.240 --> 00:13:04.720 And in the earliest Christian communities, just like well, the rabbinic communities that continue, the one thing you knew as a Jewish person when you went to study is you were gonna disagree. 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:12.320 So you went there on purpose to disagree, and you promised you'd come back the next week and disagree again. 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:14.399 Maybe you've heard the adage. 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:15.759 I'm quoting a rabbi. 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:21.360 He says, Maybe you've heard that whenever there's two Jewish people, there's three opinions. 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:23.679 And he said, That's true. 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:35.200 Because the whole point of getting together and learning and study is that there's a thesis, there's an antithesis, and then there's a synthesis. 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:44.240 You've both spoken, you've both listened, and you must therefore, having listened, go away changed. 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:59.600 Church began that way, not as a monolith, but as a holy conversation community, gathered around what it meant to be around Jesus and embodied his way. 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:02.159 And you heard Sean mention this last week. 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:06.240 The earliest Christian debate seems to be what did it mean to have the Eucharist? 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:09.600 And what happened if you died before Jesus came back? 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:14.000 These were like the earliest questions, not doctrines, but what does this mean? 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:16.879 Who was he, and what did this mean? 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:22.559 And so actually, for a number of years, like 300, a lot of variety. 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:25.120 There was no Bible, as we now call it. 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:27.279 Different churches used different books. 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:31.519 So maybe you've heard of the Gospel of Thomas, didn't make it into our Bible. 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:35.600 If you were Christian living in Egypt, you probably knew it. 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:40.159 If you were Christian living in Italy, you probably never heard of it. 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:42.480 And that was fine. 00:14:42.960 --> 00:15:06.159 The biggest thing that changed is that from the time of Jesus' resurrection, and you can read this through the book of Acts, really small group of people said, Hey, this is the guy we've been waiting for, and the invitation to actually not edit what we often call the Old Testament, we're not editing the Hebrew Bible, he's the fulfillment of everything we've been reading. 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.960 That ultimately sort of became the claim. 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:14.320 And um, which is interesting, right? 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:21.759 Because one of the things to add that just to the scope of this is there's not a Christianity, there's Christianities, there always has been. 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:34.799 And at one point, there was a group of Christians, self-identified followers of Christ, who followed this guy named Arius, and he believed that Jesus was actually a created, the first creature among all creation. 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:38.960 Like he was a creature, but he was the first creature of which all things were created through. 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.919 So this language of begotten and trinity and all of that. 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:51.440 And at the height of it, there numerically were more Christians walking around following Arius than what we would consider Trinitarian Orthodoxy. 00:15:51.679 --> 00:16:05.440 There was a there was a period of time where numerically there were more people that were believing that than what we now call, now that is not what was handed down, and ultimately what we now call orthodoxy solidified in the end of the fourth century and different things and get into that. 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:13.440 But the point is that this idea that there's always been one faith, you know, and we've all agreed, is just not the case. 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:19.360 I mean, this is the whole process by which God has been moving the church is this holy dialogue that Mike is talking about, right? 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:20.799 The spirit with God. 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:25.360 And that dialogue was really contagious at a growth rate of about 10% a year. 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:25.600 Yeah. 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:33.440 So that you know they were not major conversions where Billy Graham like rescued 5,000 people in a block. 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:43.840 Seems like the early church grew at about 10% a year, which is how the LDS church has been growing since it was founded and continues to go at that rate. 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:47.039 And boy, that's exponential growth. 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:49.519 It's not linear, that's exponential, right? 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:50.960 And that's kind of what happened. 00:16:51.120 --> 00:17:01.279 So around uh around the year 300, um, probably 25% of the Roman Empire identified with a Christianity minority. 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:08.400 And one of those people was the Emperor Constantine, who himself was an Arian Christian, that is, a heretic. 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.319 He believed Jesus was subordinate to the Father and a created being. 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:23.200 And the first early Christian controversy that I think still many of us wrestle with was not actually the Nicene Creed, it was what happens when your priest turns out to be a scumbag? 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.480 What if your priest is a scumbag? 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.960 Does that mean that your baptism or your confirmation or the Eucharist were invalid? 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:44.240 And ultimately the first decision of the early church was God works through imperfect vessels, so the piety of the priest does not enhance or diminish the conveyance of grace. 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:51.599 Constantine killed people, literally persecuted people for that point. 00:17:51.839 --> 00:18:03.440 Like he himself organized opposition in a kind of a minor inquisition and said, if you can't concede this, you might die, and you're certainly not Christian. 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.720 So that was the first controversy of the whole church. 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.680 The second one was when he called everybody together and said, there's too much plurality. 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:19.599 Like, look, I'm the emperor and I don't believe in, well, a lot of different opinions, because that's not how empires work. 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:20.559 I want one version. 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.000 Like, what's the bottom line? 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:26.559 He wasn't trying to say we all have to believe the same thing, but we need some basics. 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:32.720 So maybe you know this, he called something called the Council of Nicaea, which he presided over himself. 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:38.240 He sat in a rotunda where the bishop would sit in our church, right? 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.160 Which is a Roman courtroom. 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:49.920 He sat and he listened as people like Arius and Athanasius, as these hermits who lived in the middle of the desert and like St. 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.319 Anthony, who went and lived on a plinus so he could be by himself. 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:58.400 He sold everything he had and lived on top of a butte. 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:04.160 And he wanted to get away from people, and like people thought he was so wise they wouldn't leave him alone, right? 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:15.839 So like these kind of people showed up, and the only reason they showed up is the promise was we won't persecute you immediately following the council. 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:19.599 So the Council of Nicaea wrote the Nicene Creed, essentially. 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:28.480 It was edited a little bit later, and that changed Christianity probably more than anything else, because now there was an official version. 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:37.039 If you weren't creedal, you were what we call heterodox, which means not right in your belief. 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.039 You weren't orthodox, you were heterodox. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:44.799 So these heterodox people were afraid of being persecution, and many of them went and lived in the desert. 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.279 Some of them built literally underground cities. 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:48.720 You can visit these in Turkey. 00:19:48.960 --> 00:20:01.039 70 feet below the surface, they carved out places and they dispersed their smoke because they wanted to practice the piety that they found most life-giving for them, and they weren't sure what would happen if they did. 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:05.200 This was the first time that Christians had toleration in the Roman Empire. 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.160 That is, they were allowed to meet in public buildings. 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:20.160 Hitherto for the Nicene Creed, Christians had to meet secretly because they were considered a new age religion, and the Romans weren't interested in them. 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:30.319 So now think about how significant a change happened where a tradition where their Messiah, their main figure, was literally crucified, right? 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:35.200 State execution for speaking truth to power and threatening. 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:38.880 I mean, Jesus was crucified for sedition against the state. 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:39.519 Remember that. 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:46.400 Like he was a it was capital punishment, sedition against the state, against the empire, against the that was what he was killed for officially. 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:53.200 So now this thing that started as that is now empire and doing the exact same thing. 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.200 And so this is where historians will say, now the Holy Spirit is real. 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.480 When I'm seeing your faces, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is our history. 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:06.960 The Holy Spirit is real, and the church has continued to move and do beautiful things because despite our brokenness. 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:18.400 But one of the things that that you'll notice here that I think is different is that Mike and I are super interested in reclaiming that whole seditious reality of pushing back against the forces of empire. 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.119 Whereas a lot of our churches just perpetuate them. 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:25.440 Like they just aren't, they're just, you know, just now next in line in their own way. 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:37.599 And so part of this is when he says this was the hinge moment, this is where scholars will say Christianity, you know, moved in a bit of a different direction at the end of the fourth century, in the in the in the early fifth century. 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:50.240 Yeah, so I think hitherto four, like when we talk about conservative and liberal, the conservative position of Christianity before Constantine was we don't have to be uniform to be unified. 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:55.680 And Constantine said, uniformity above unity. 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:03.519 So I'm just curious, and I don't want to go up too much on a tangent here, but So the Nicene Creed you're saying was written there. 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:05.440 Did the Apostles' Creed come later? 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:06.960 Apostles' Creed came first. 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:07.680 Oh, that was great. 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:08.559 And it's shorter. 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:14.559 The reason the Nicene Creed is longer is it's every phrase is combating some view of heresy. 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:18.960 Like, was Jesus the firstborn of all creation, or was he coeternal with the Father? 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:19.839 Was he made? 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.039 No, he was begotten. 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:21.359 Right. 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:34.400 So like there's all of these weird language we say that we're not in touch with, honestly, but was really critical in the doctrinal basis going forward. 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:41.200 A lot of people, even at the time, were like, I can't go there, literally, spiritually fine, but I can't literally go there. 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:42.400 And that became divisive. 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:52.960 The other thing that happened in Constantine, as I mentioned, public buildings were given, and Christian priests were given magisterial, I don't want to say privilege, but responsibility. 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.559 That is, priests and bishops became judges. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:02.559 And they adjudicated civil matters in the courtroom of their church. 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:07.279 The basilica, maybe you know that word, was the ancient courtroom. 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:13.759 And the way we Christianized buildings is we add two apses to it, which made it look like a cross from above. 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:26.000 But that whole round back, that's when that entered the Christian tradition, because it was an imperial building and the bishops sat in the round spot like the emperor did in Constantinople. 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:35.039 So uh I don't want to say suppression, but open disagreement really sort of changed. 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:35.680 Right? 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:38.799 And that sort of carries through for a bit. 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:40.240 The Holy Roman Empire. 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:41.920 Yeah, the Holy Roman Empire. 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:45.599 And interesting to know, when is the first time we used the creed? 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:51.759 The creed, the Nicene Creed which we used, didn't start until Charlemagne, if you're German, he's called Carl the Great. 00:23:51.920 --> 00:24:05.839 I don't know if you know him, the first Holy Roman Emperor, insisted the creed be put in the liturgy for the first time ever, before the Eucharist, because he had just conquered a bunch of Goths who were Arians. 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:09.759 They believed Jesus was not co-eternal, they believed he was a created being. 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:21.440 So he put the creed before the Eucharist as a way of saying you can only have the life-giving sacrament if you adopt the right doctrinal position, which is mine. 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.559 So that's when the creed came in, 800s. 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:33.359 We probably know that there's some really ugly bits in our tradition, the crusades being a few of them. 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:52.079 Also, the Inquisition in Spain, it actually started earlier with inquisitions in a place in France called the Langueduc, in which the Dominicans completely slaughtered what are called the Cathars or the Albigensians, wiped them out completely for the sake of uniformity in orthodoxy. 00:24:52.640 --> 00:25:03.759 Things kind of got real sticky in the Middle Ages, not because people didn't accept sort of the official doctrine of the church, it's because the priests weren't living it out. 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:09.279 So lots of problems with the uh the church in the West. 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:10.559 Yeah, the East. 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.119 We talk about the East in just a second, but let me build up to the Reformation. 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:21.359 The problem was uh priests were illiterate and they were making stuff up. 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.039 So if you've heard hocus pocus, those are the magist magic words. 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:35.359 The reason is because in Latin you say hocus corpus meum, this is my body, and that turns the bread into the body of Jesus. 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:44.640 It could be that kids misheard it as hocus pocus, but it's equally likely that the illiterate priests were making it up. 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:46.559 And they said hocus pocus. 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:49.039 And that became the magic. 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:54.480 I mean, if you can turn bread into body, I mean those are the magic words, right? 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:59.440 So illiterate clergy, clergy who were having all kinds of children. 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:05.440 Simony that is buying the office of bishop, absentee bishops, people. 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.880 If you know about uh the rosary, right? 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:19.359 The rosary didn't come from the church, it came from the crusades, where the crusaders went into Jerusalem and they saw Muslims praying the 99 names of Allah, and they thought, man, that's great. 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:20.720 I wish we had that. 00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.880 So they put a cross on it, and that's where the rosary came from, not even lying. 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:27.599 And the Pope was like, Well, I guess we've got to live with that. 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.720 I mean, we can't strike down personal piety. 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:34.079 People wanted their faith to matter, right? 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:41.680 And of course, the other thing we all know about, what's the simple reason for the Reformation is nobody spoke Latin and the whole thing was in Latin. 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:49.359 So stained glass windows and statuaries were there to teach you the biblical stories because you didn't know what the priest was talking about. 00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:55.519 And again, that's how they got away with being illiterate since you didn't know Latin, the priest didn't know Latin. 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:57.680 Who knew? 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:01.920 And that led to a head with the Reformation. 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.839 But I guess I should backtrack really fast and say used to be one unified church under Constantine. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:11.039 And of course, there was this big split in 1062. 00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:13.680 Six? 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:16.319 I think it's not right. 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:19.519 Battle of Hastings, 1062, 1066. 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:23.440 It's not the great schism, it's it's a schism between East and West. 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:28.720 And the big fight was who has the most power? 00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:31.920 The Bishop of Rome or the Bishop of Constantinople. 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:32.559 Right? 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:47.200 If you want to know the TLDR version, in the West they used sculptures, in the east they used icons, and ultimately one said, the West said, You're worshiping those icons, and they were like, wait a minute, you got those statues, right? 00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:51.279 So ultimately they choose they accuse each other of idolatry. 00:27:51.920 --> 00:28:05.119 Came to a head when the Bishop of Rome said, I'm just gonna change the Nicene Creed and I'm gonna say the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father and the Son without having a council, because I'm stronger than you, so I can do that. 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:14.319 And that was when East excommunicated West and West excommunicated each, and they have both sort of gone their own way. 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:18.720 And so let's just think they didn't have the internet, it wasn't a global one-world system, right? 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.920 And so people were affiliated with you know their cultures and their people. 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.279 So Rome was saying that they are the best, right? 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:29.680 They are the ones in charge, but people in the East different cultures, different ways of doing things. 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:51.680 So when you think East, think you know, all through the Mediterranean, you know, Turkey, you know, even further, Greece, all of that, you know, you start seeing that they're culturally people are affiliating and kind of aligning with that's why when he says Constantinople, the the Bishop of Constantinople had a significant amount of authority and power, and then the Bishop of Rome, right? 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:56.640 And this is where they this is where you start getting people that talk about being Eastern Orthodox now. 00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:58.640 They come from this tradition, right? 00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:09.599 This split, this tradition of people that ultimately affiliated with the cultures and the customs and the ways that they were doing and rejected the imperial reality of Rome. 00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:11.839 That's kind of the schism. 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.359 And so you'll see the way we dress as clergy is the way that Roman nobility and priests dressed. 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.839 That's where chasibles and stoles come from. 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:23.119 They came from pagan priests and Roman nobles. 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:29.839 So we're in that Western tradition, of course we are, because we ended up splitting with the Roman church. 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:38.160 We'd already split with the Eastern Church, so we don't dress like Pharisees did at the time of Jesus, which is how Orthodox clergy dress. 00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:55.759 So, yeah, so think with the the so the scope of the line here is a lot of plurality, one big unity, one huge break in the middle of the 11th century, and then the people in the West, when he says Reformation, there was now the beginning of schism after break after break. 00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:59.519 This was this is this is where our tradition was birthed out of. 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:06.160 When he says reformation, so now it's it's been break after break after break after break from this Western reality. 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.759 Of course, the curious thing is the East has not subfractured. 00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:10.079 No. 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:15.759 There's no, if you're Russian Orthodox or Greek Orthodox, you're both Orthodox Christians. 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:23.039 It's just that one you have a different sort of local leader, but you're all Orthodox. 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:25.279 You're not fighting it out, right? 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:27.359 The West is a different story. 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:37.200 I've tried to build up to where the Reformation ultimately comes from, and it came from somebody dead committed to the Roman Catholic Church, which is Martin Luther, right? 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:42.160 He wanted to reform the church, but not split from it. 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:47.440 And ultimately what happened, right, is Luther himself bought an indulgence when he was in Rome. 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:52.000 It's a very powerful spiritual experience for him to buy an indulgence. 00:30:52.319 --> 00:31:01.440 This practice, maybe you know it, is the idea that, hey, you have to do penance for your sins and you have to be contrite in order to be forgiven. 00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:03.039 You have to have both things. 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:07.680 But the church was trying to change the Colosseum into St. 00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:08.480 Peter's. 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.920 And that took some money. 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:24.480 So a few evangelists took some creative license, and they said things like anytime a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs. 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:31.359 So what Luther was hearing was not officially sanctioned by the Roman Church. 00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:39.119 It was a local person saying, You care about your mom and your grandma, do you want them to suffer in purgatory, having to do penance? 00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:53.039 The good news is the church has enough good deeds from the saints that's called sort of the storehouse of merit, that the merit of Saint James can take away the penance your granny has to do in purgatory. 00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:54.000 For a hundred bucks. 00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:55.839 For a hundred bucks. 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.920 Now, your granny still had to be contrite to be forgiven. 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:01.440 You have to be contrite. 00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:05.920 But if you buy the indulgence, you're sort of making an exchange. 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.680 You're giving merit for merit, and it's a win-win, right? 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:14.000 Except Luther said, wow, I've really been reading the Bible, and that just doesn't seem right. 00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:18.400 So if you've read the 95 theses, they're all about indulgences. 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:20.960 They're not about like the Pope shouldn't this or that. 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:22.480 They're all about indulgences. 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:25.200 So what happened is Luther put these theses up. 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:27.119 He really wanted to have a conversation. 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:34.880 And because the papacy had been purchased by one of the Medicis, sorry, Simony was a problem. 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:41.119 The church said, We're going to excommunicate you, or at least we're going to put you on trial at a place called Vorms. 00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:43.759 And interesting thing happens at the trial. 00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:51.039 Ultimately, the Catholic position, the Roman Catholic position, backs Luther into a corner he didn't want to be in. 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:58.000 He really wanted to be a faithful member of the church, and they said, We're going to burn you at the stake. 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:06.640 And interesting thing is, the grand, the grand um inquisitor, a guy named Johannes Tetzel, was very bright. 00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:10.720 He said, Luther, you say we should do things on scripture alone. 00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:14.559 How do you think we got the scripture? 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.880 It came from spirit-guided tradition. 00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:21.279 I don't think he was wrong. 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.559 I don't think he was wrong, because we as we'll talk about it later. 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.000 God didn't write the Bible. 00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:28.000 God didn't write the Bible. 00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:29.920 How did we put it together? 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.160 It took the Christians 400 years to agree on the books we've gotten out. 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:38.079 That wasn't decided until 381 at the Council of Constantinople. 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:45.599 Most sociologists will say that a community has to be talking about something for about in the ancient times. 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:50.640 They have to be talking about something between 35 and 50 years before it gets written down. 00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:57.839 So like before somebody wrote it down, it had to be part of a communal conversation for about 35 to 50 years. 00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:06.559 So I mean, you know, when we think about when and how things, they were already, all right, we call this lexerandi lexic, like the rule of prayer, the rule of faith is the rule of belief. 00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:08.079 But that that's that's what it was. 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:18.719 And then, you know, also just remember that Jesus got in trouble for a very similar thing about turning faith into something that is about income generation for the sake of faith, right? 00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:20.880 I mean, that's when you monetize it. 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:25.920 So, I mean, this is what was happening in the practices of selling, you know, you've turned my house, father's house, into a den of thieves. 00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:31.840 There is this thing that we're always pushing back against that seems to be drawing us into that sin. 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:40.480 And Martin Luther was just pointing out the same sin that I think we're all in some level having to be aware of how how the economic reality is affecting our faith life. 00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:44.719 So his perspective was his church was willing to kill him for being faithful. 00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:54.000 And on his promised faith passage home, he was kidnapped by um Friedrich the Wise, probably for political reasons as much as faith ones. 00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:06.000 And during his being kidnapped, he translated the Bible into German, which, by the way, modern German is still based on Luther's translation of German, so it's weird, like it hasn't grown. 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:23.519 It's still based on the Luther, on the Luther Bible, and this set forth what we call the Protestant Reformations plural, because Luther was protesting this particular doctrine with hope to reform his church, and he was pushed out. 00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:26.559 Anytime you mix religion and power, things get really weird. 00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:36.480 So what ended up happening, right, is northern Germany said, hey, we want to be Protestant, because then us local princes can have the monasteries and the churches and all the land holdings. 00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:41.119 The church was very wealthy because it controlled trade routes, right? 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:43.360 And now these princes got that. 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:48.960 What was the argument over really um what happens at the Eucharist? 00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:52.480 Boy, as I mentioned, early Christians were talking about that too. 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:57.039 Can we speak our own language or do we have to speak a language we don't know? 00:35:57.360 --> 00:35:58.400 Does it have to be in Latin? 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:03.119 Does the Bible have does the service and everything have to be in Latin, or can it be in what's called the lingua franca, the language of the people? 00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:15.840 Which is really curious because Latin was a barbaric language compared to ancient Greek, and Saint Jerome did the barbarians a favor by translating the Greek version of the Bible into Latin so people could understand it. 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:17.440 And he was a Roman saint. 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:21.440 So it's interesting how we fail to forget where we've come from, right? 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:33.920 Maybe you've heard of Ulrich Zwingli before, and he was a Swiss reformer, and he and Luther almost joined forces, except they couldn't agree on what happened at the Eucharist. 00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:37.280 Luther said, the real presence is there, we don't know how. 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:39.840 Zwingli said, well, it's symbolism. 00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:43.519 And on that one point, union fell apart. 00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:47.039 Be interesting to know what would happen if they said, that's good enough for me. 00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:48.800 You know, like it's good enough. 00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:53.360 You get one fracture, and then you get another, and then they start breaking all over the place. 00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:56.880 And then probably you know, we ultimately come from the Anglican tradition. 00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:02.079 And I want to make sure we know a little bit more about this so we don't think Henry VIII just wanted a divorce. 00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:07.679 Uh Henry VIII was a secondborn kid, which meant he was primed to be a bishop. 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.800 His older brother, Arthur, was primed to be the king. 00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:12.480 So, what did you do in the ancient world? 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:20.400 Your firstborn was going to be the monarch, your secondborn was gonna be the ecclesial monarch, and then you hope the other ones would be priests, because that's it, right? 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:21.280 That's it. 00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:26.639 Uh Henry VIII went to seminary and was apparently very bright, Catholic theologian. 00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:32.400