SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you all for joining us uh remotely, and uh I I still I hope this is spiritually enriching to you.
SPEAKER_00: And we are um today are focusing our attention on Ephesians.
SPEAKER_00: I do want to offer to you that if you were not able to make it last week and you wanted to uh go back to Philemon et al or Colossians, please feel free.
SPEAKER_00: But maybe we can start today with um images or phrases or ways in which Ephesians might have touched your your heart or intrigued your mind or um piqued your faith.
SPEAKER_00: Um did anything stand out or challenge you as you read Ephesians?
SPEAKER_03: And uh, would you say more about that?
SPEAKER_03: And we have to go away from that in so many ways.
SPEAKER_03: And that's Jesus Christ with all the trendy, actually.
SPEAKER_00: Well, and what you're saying is totally in line with the name of the book, which is called Remember Who You Are.
SPEAKER_00: So very, very on theme.
SPEAKER_00: Um anybody else uh have reflections or uh again, uh ways in which this might have piqued your interest or attention, for better or for worse.
SPEAKER_04: There are a couple things I found is that he he he makes it clear break from before Jesus was born to after Jesus was born, that everyone now is in the included in the promise.
SPEAKER_04: The other thing I found interesting was kind of at the beginning he talked about the Trinity I think stronger than he had before.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: That's helpful.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, the book does, I think, any uh uh hopefully a good job for you uh talking about mystery religions, and this is really helpful to know that at the time in which Ephesians is written, uh there is this tremendous interest uh in the the Greco-Roman world in what in what are called mystery religions.
SPEAKER_00: Usually uh mystery religions have some kind of focus on secret knowledge or some kind of way in which you are um I I think hazing is the tough word, but some way in which you're initiated into this um divine reality that is um that is clearly um demonstrative of divinity's power over physical things.
SPEAKER_00: So uh, for example, some of the the the mystery of religions would be like the cult of Isis, uh who if you if you know any of your um sort of Egyptian folk tales, this is Osiris's not wife, but consort.
SPEAKER_00: And when Osiris is chopped into pieces by the crocodile god Seth of the Nile, Osiris, um Isis gathers them all up, puts her husband back together, and he gets sort of a new life.
SPEAKER_00: So Osiris dies every day and goes to the world of the underworld.
SPEAKER_00: Um that's where he is the god of the underworld, and then he rises again each day, sort of with the sun.
SPEAKER_00: And so Osiris is like Ra, and the one who makes the sun rise again is Isis.
SPEAKER_00: So she's got this mystical power over nature, the sun comes back, and um she wasn't an indigenous uh Greek Roman religion, but they met her, and then there's these little cults and these septs, like these little chapels to Isis.
SPEAKER_00: Um, another one of these is the the Greek god Aslepius.
SPEAKER_00: Um that's where we get the two snakes on a pole.
SPEAKER_00: Um they were worshipping essentially the serpent god who was able to do dramatic healing, and uh that's still the medical symbol to this day.
SPEAKER_00: Um and so this in this cult of Aslepius, uh there was um demonstrative physical uh power over healing and disease, and these are uh start to become ways uh this is like some traction to these mystery religions.
SPEAKER_00: And what Paul's doing is saying, no, no, um, the mystery is not that the small groups get access to divine power in the physical world.
SPEAKER_00: The mystery is that God is taking the most apparently dissonant notes in the universe and arranging them into an amazing harmony.
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we focus on the melody, like what sounds like us and where we think the song's going, and if you're Jewish, hey, you know how to do some good Jewish melodies.
SPEAKER_00: But what God is doing mysteriously is taking apparently dissonant notes, like Greeks and Romans, and weaving them into this amazing score that is full of harmony, has much wider bandwidth and uh sort of a big flavor profile.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is the mystery is that God is able to take seemingly um seemingly um opposite ingredients and make a master recipe or or make a master musical score here.
SPEAKER_00: And and that's the real mystery, Paul says, the only worth, the only one really worth contemplating.
SPEAKER_00: It's not about how you can have more, it's about how God is in fact reconciling the world to God's self.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_03: Now this is where the I think we can connect with this in a contemporary way.
SPEAKER_03: Because in chapter three, uh it says here in verse uh five, it says in former generations, this mystery was not made known to humankind, as it has now been revealed to his only possible spirit.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, now in other words, we in lots of ways our contemporary society has been caught in these mysteries of our geometry in our current day system, which is green last year.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so this is a requirement to say, hey, um you have been asked to be okay with something.
SPEAKER_03: And um you need to you can take it work on a long-term basis.
SPEAKER_03: But now to the Holy Apostles and uh office of the Spirit and Jesus Christ, this is the clarion call for us today.
SPEAKER_03: Get back to the basics.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I and I I really appreciate you saying that.
SPEAKER_00: And what I think is really helpful to us from to remember is um Paul's writing this, and it's not like this is a once and for all.
SPEAKER_00: This is not even a once every generation.
SPEAKER_00: This is like a constant reminder before us.
SPEAKER_00: And I think the sort of the thing that shows up in my head is that um, you know, Abraham goes way, way down from Mesopotamia to uh the land of Canaan, and he ends up getting blessed by a priest called Melchizedek who's not Jewish.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is this interesting thing, right?
SPEAKER_00: This is like this core story in the letter to the Hebrews, which I know we're not reading, but um, that Melchizedek is a is a pagan priest, and uh he comes out and blesses Abraham, and in some ways, I think we can read Ephesians as saying yes, like that's exactly what Christ represents is this ability to take even apparently divergent religions and bring them together so that there's a universal humanity.
SPEAKER_00: Um and and I think that message is not once in a lifetime, I think that's probably day by day.
SPEAKER_00: We need to be reminded of who we are, who God is, and then live into God's symphony instead of just our part.
SPEAKER_00: I'm not a great singer, but I will tell you, um, I used to be in this audition choir, and I think I got in because my mom was a teacher at the school.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, if you only focus on your part, whether you're a bass or an alto or a tenor, um, you you you actually completely miss the trajectory of the overall song.
SPEAKER_00: Uh my daughter got a part, she really likes this the song Good King Winces Good King Winceslos, and she was gonna play a duet with another boy, and she was playing sort of the bass note, and then on the tenor side, she was playing a little bit of the harmony, and she sat down to play it, and she was like, This is not good King Winceslos, this is a totally different song.
SPEAKER_00: And then when she played with her partner, all the notes came together and she was able to hear the melody she was so used to, but in in a in a deeper, wider range.
SPEAKER_00: And I think part of what we're hearing here is that we're not supposed to just focus on our part, we're supposed to focus on God's trajectory for the whole song, and that's the mystery.
SPEAKER_00: God can weave in people we'd written off.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's a strong call to that in Ephesians, I think, because this is where the Jews and the Gentiles have made peace.
SPEAKER_03: And um this is uh I think this epistle needs to be read in churches because people need to be reminded constantly, especially those right-wingers, uh, that are so far outright about their and some confused.
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, um this is a beautiful epistle, I think.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you're right about that.
SPEAKER_00: And I would dare say, I was just listening to this this morning, and I think it's really, really helpful.
SPEAKER_00: I I I get to go back and review Brene Brown every now and again, and she's been very, very helpful for me, like prophetically, is that um we we have this need on both sides, I think, of the political arena to make room for each other.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, even though I have particular political values, and I have them very strongly, when I write off people who have opposite values, I need to hear this, which says, people with apparently opposite values, mysteriously God is incorporating them into this divine symphony.
SPEAKER_00: And how we make room, I think, is really important.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think there's this interesting thing where we can say, no, you may not use that language, and um, we might disagree with policies, but I do respect your humanity, I do respect your ability to come to different conclusions, and in fact, I'm curious to know, not like, oh, I can't, I I you know, I want to know how you could believe something so wrong, but I'm curious to know how you got there.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think that's part of this call in Ephesians.
SPEAKER_00: He's writing to Gentiles.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, let's be clear.
SPEAKER_00: Paul is not writing to Jewish people, he he's very upfront.
SPEAKER_00: This is a letter to Gentiles, to former outsiders, and I think it's really easy for them to say, aha, look, we're the new favored group.
SPEAKER_00: And uh I think Paul's saying, here's the mystery, everybody's the favored group.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been reading the source, and it's a really interesting um interweaving of the Christians, the Jews, and the Muslims in a way that I had just never thought about it before.
SPEAKER_01: It's fascinating.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I will tell you, uh, and I think I've mentioned this before, I had to read that book in seminary because the research in it, um, James Mitchner bought the best available research at the time.
SPEAKER_00: Uh he probably didn't do it, and and that's fine, uh, because it's it's really good.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and that's an amazing book.
SPEAKER_00: We we read it before we went to Israel.
SPEAKER_00: Um, really, really helpful uh read, I I I I believe anyway.
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm reading it because you recommended it, and it was absolutely fascinating.
SPEAKER_00: Good.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I would highly recommend that too.
SPEAKER_03: It's been years since I've read it, but it really is very informative in a lot of basic ways, I guess.
SPEAKER_00: I I I hope it's helpful to just continue this this thread about seemingly dissonant notes.
SPEAKER_00: Um, I grew up with a really strong reading of Ephesians based on the armor of God.
SPEAKER_00: I put on the full armor of God and get dressed for battle, and our book even says that.
SPEAKER_00: But what's interesting, I think, that's important to remember, is that we don't we don't battle against flesh and blood.
SPEAKER_00: We battle against powers and principalities.
SPEAKER_00: And this, I think, is this really interesting thing, whether it's politics or health or religion, if we find ourselves fighting other people, we're fighting the wrong thing.
SPEAKER_00: We're not to fight Democrats or the Tea Party or libertarians.
SPEAKER_00: We're supposed to fight against or resist, rather, the powers and principalities that corrupt and destroy the creatures of God.
SPEAKER_00: And um, those powers and principalities, um, I want to suggest to you are not um boxes and facts that we check, those are things like racism, sexism, heterosexism, ageism.
SPEAKER_00: Those are the powers and principalities.
SPEAKER_00: And if you find yourself super bored and willing to go on a little fun trip, I commend to you a series by Walter Wink, an Episcopal theologian uh in New York, and he's quite good.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's really quite a scholar, called Unmasking the Powers.
SPEAKER_00: And the first book is Naming the Powers, in which he says very, very uh compellingly that we have all this angels and demons business wrong.
SPEAKER_00: What ancient people realize, like we do when we're thoughtful, is that there are sort of mob mentalities and there are essences of countries and groups that are deeper than physicality.
SPEAKER_00: You know, like you can watch the Nuremberg rally on video where there's like 40,000 people.
SPEAKER_00: And there's no way that every one of those people was gathering thinking, how can we worship the devil?
SPEAKER_00: Instead, they were caught up in this nationalism that was almost greater than their own capacity to think.
SPEAKER_00: And that is a power and a principality.
SPEAKER_03: And that's really what, yeah, that's really where the battle is.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: And I think when we have to be paying attention to notice that.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and we like to take the battle to the streets.
SPEAKER_00: And we sometimes forget, hey, when we find ourselves fighting against someone with a different opinion, fighting against someone is one of the powers and principalities we're trying to be liberated from.
SPEAKER_00: So we need to fight the uh not the symptom bearer, but the disease, which is separation, listening only to our own part, dismissing the rest of the harmony God intends.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, because it says here in chapter four, I there the prison of the Lord beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.
SPEAKER_00: I love that you read that because that was such an important verse for me as a as a kid and as a teenager, live a life worthy.
SPEAKER_00: And at the time that verse was kind of used to say, you'd better have a transformed life, otherwise your faith may not be real.
SPEAKER_00: And I read it now, and I think what Paul is saying is since God has given us this grace, and God has this unique ability to reconcile even apparent opposites and enemies into some beauty, don't waste that gift.
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy it.
SPEAKER_00: Now look, if you choose not to enjoy it, that's your choice, and it no way affects or slights God, the gift giver.
SPEAKER_00: But why would you want to waste something so great?
SPEAKER_00: Well, I know why, because I'm listening to Brene Brown.
SPEAKER_00: And we want to do it because we're afraid.
SPEAKER_00: And rightfully so.
SPEAKER_00: We're afraid to change.
SPEAKER_00: Uh we're afraid that we'll just be disappointed and get our hearts hurt again.
SPEAKER_00: And um I think there's a lot of truth, I think there's a lot of truth to that.
SPEAKER_00: And I think part of Ephesians is okay, look, instead of carrying around armor that keeps you from being vulnerable, instead dress yourself for practices like authenticity.
SPEAKER_00: So when you hear about the armor of God, and again, I I can't tell you how many times I got to hear this as a teenager, um, so that I've memorized all this sort of business.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, wear around you a belt of truth.
SPEAKER_00: And what's the truth?
SPEAKER_00: I'm right and you're wrong, or is the truth there's nothing you can do to make God love you more, and nothing you can do to make God love you less?
SPEAKER_00: Is the truth if you don't get it right, you go to hell forever, or is the truth love wins?
SPEAKER_00: So which truth do we wear around our waist and keep our pants up with?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just I think there's this wonderful invitation.
SPEAKER_00: Put on your head the helmet of salvation.
SPEAKER_00: So what is salvation?
SPEAKER_00: You go to heaven when you die or hell if you do it wrong, or is salvation this idea that God is going to reconcile whatever we can't, so we might as well enjoy it now?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what do we go around filling and covering our heads with?
SPEAKER_00: If we are bought up, I think, in this idea that if you get it wrong, you go to hell forever, then we really can live into that right now.
SPEAKER_00: And if your politics are wrong, you're going to hell forever.
SPEAKER_00: Instead, if we have this idea, look, love wins, then I think we're going to interact with one another differently.
SPEAKER_00: So again, what do we fill and cover our heads with?
SPEAKER_00: Like, this is this there's really, I don't know why I didn't get this opportunity when I was a teenager, but I certainly feel like I have it now.
SPEAKER_03: We have to grow into things.
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, to be fair, the helmet God wants me.
SPEAKER_00: To wear is too heavy for my neck.
SPEAKER_00: And so maybe it takes a little spiritual discipline to strengthen my muscles so that I can wear and not be encumbered by the fullness of life that God wants to give me.
SPEAKER_00: Because I think initially it can be really, really tough.
SPEAKER_00: We learned about being offensive with our swords.
SPEAKER_00: So you're supposed to argue people into salvation and argue the bad about them because there's the sword of the spirit.
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what's funny, right?
SPEAKER_00: Spirit really just means moving air.
SPEAKER_00: It means breath and life.
SPEAKER_00: And this is what God does to the clay person in Genesis 2.
SPEAKER_00: God bends down to the clay and goes and breathes life into the clay.
SPEAKER_00: So I was always taught, aha, this is like the word of God.
SPEAKER_00: You fight people and you justify.
SPEAKER_00: But what God does with the Spirit in the Bible is blows order into chaos and blows life into apparent death.
SPEAKER_00: And that isn't even a weapon at all.
SPEAKER_00: That's like a building a bridge.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I've taken over.
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to step back.
SPEAKER_00: How about the roles?
SPEAKER_00: Uh was there anything interesting to you about husbands and wives and children and parents and masters and servants?
SPEAKER_04: Well, it was based on it was based on a patriarchal society.
unknown: So it's understandable that that's how it is written.
unknown: Yeah.
unknown: Um I don't think that's how we interpret it today.
unknown: Or at least how it should be interpreted today.
unknown: Because that can be that can be very in the wrong hands, that can be a very scary thing.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: If you read the whole half um second, I mean a couple of paragraphs on that, it really is talking about a balanced relationship, insofar as because you have to have respect and you also have um, I mean it it's uh and it really in a way lays more responsibility on the husband to keep peace and order in some ways, um, because in this society is recognizing the husband as the head of the household, you know, he is supposed to love his wife as I forget exactly what it says here, but he's he's supposed to love his wife as he loves himself.
SPEAKER_03: I mean correct on that.
SPEAKER_03: And that's so it's not and so that the first part about the woman being submissive is what always gets red.
SPEAKER_03: But you don't ever hear the second part of that husband, and uh and women today happens, as you said, have a lot of trouble with that, but it really is talking about a whole balance relationship between the two.
SPEAKER_04: And and it's interesting that he metaphors that into the relationship of race with the church.
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, I think uh in this book, especially in this epistle especially, it talks about uh marriage.
SPEAKER_03: Um and um Paul doesn't uh let's see here.
SPEAKER_03: Um it uh Paul encourages marriage uh rather is in place of sexual immorality.
SPEAKER_03: Um but um but but also uh let's see but uh uh but this um uh epistle here is talking about marriage as a really intense love relationship.
SPEAKER_03: And that's the one that kind we should we need to have with with Jesus or with God or the Holy Spirit, at least be personal.
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's interesting uh to think about how much things have have possibly changed.
SPEAKER_00: And and I actually think that um, like you say, sometimes we read the setup and then we skip the punchline, right?
SPEAKER_00: And the the setup is women submit to your husbands, uh slaves submit to your masters, children submit to your parents.
SPEAKER_00: That was all expected.
SPEAKER_00: And and to be honest, like marriage among equals is like a new idea.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm not even sure we've totally figured that out.
SPEAKER_03: Um definitely not.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: But but what Paul does then, he does that setup, and then here comes like here comes like the real punch.
SPEAKER_00: Husbands love your wives.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, in the ancient world, you didn't love your wife, you owned her.
SPEAKER_00: And you can't love something that you own.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, really, you kind of have to set something free in order to love it, right?
SPEAKER_00: Uh you have to be vulnerable to it.
SPEAKER_00: And uh, parents do not uh embitter your children.
SPEAKER_00: Boy, that's an interesting one, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00: So children obey, but parents don't embitter.
SPEAKER_00: Um slaves.
SPEAKER_00: Obey like you're obeying Jesus, but masters be fair to your slaves.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, again, like it's it's sort of interesting that Paul sort of meets context right where it is and then undermines it completely.
SPEAKER_00: And uh I, you know, I don't know if this is worth saying, but I grew up uh reading uh Genesis chapter 3, in which um women end up getting sort of demoted under their men, right?
SPEAKER_00: You always yearn for their husbands.
SPEAKER_00: And when push came to show, when we argued about women being ministers, uh that would get used.
SPEAKER_00: Aha, look, this is the consequence of sin that women uh are submissive to men.
SPEAKER_00: And it was so interesting that we stopped there, because if that's the consequence of sin, why would we want to live that way?
SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't we want to go back to perfection?
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what Paul is trying to say.
SPEAKER_00: Look, we have these authority structures, and that's fine.
SPEAKER_00: Let's not get rid of the structures, but let's transform how we live into them.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and with regard to Adam and Eve, we also have to consider the balance that's there, because a lot of Bibles leave this out.
SPEAKER_03: But Adam was with Eve when they both partook of the fruit, and that is left out too.
SPEAKER_03: And he did nothing to stop her.
SPEAKER_03: So I mean, there's equal blame there.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think and I think that's a really interesting it's a really interesting question, is maybe the whole book, like blame in general.
SPEAKER_00: Um, what does blame do?
SPEAKER_00: It distorts and isolates the creatures of God.
SPEAKER_00: And again, if you're if you're really bored right now and you want to listen to a fine book, I would commend to you, Bruce Feiler.
SPEAKER_00: He's he's a Jewish writer.
SPEAKER_00: Uh he writes a history of Adam and Eve called The First Love Story.
SPEAKER_00: And he tells that story throughout centuries, like the way it's depicted by Michelangelo and by John Milton.
SPEAKER_00: And it is really interesting.
SPEAKER_00: I I uh I listened to the audio book, you can read it as well, but it is a fine book, actually.
SPEAKER_00: It's very interesting to hear how John Milton described that story and how Michelangelo described that story.
SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, what Bruce Feiler says is you know, we usually look at this like Eve led Adam astray, but instead, in them we see this opportunity to really practice love, to get back up together when we fall, because ultimately they do.
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I I commend that book to you.
SPEAKER_00: It's it's interesting.
SPEAKER_02: I read who is the writer?
SPEAKER_00: Bruce Spiler, F-E-I-L-E-R.
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if this is off the top subject, but some of what you're saying reminds me of my father.
SPEAKER_02: My my we were six of us, and then two girls and the rest of the four were boys.
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, my sister and I were both divorced and remarried.
SPEAKER_02: My mother had some very strong feelings about that and how that what kind of behavior, what kind of women were we, uh she wasn't gonna be allowing us to go in with different men, and yeah, you know, that that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02: And my father said, This is the way I stand with them.
SPEAKER_02: He said, I will never shut my doors to them under no circumstances.
SPEAKER_02: If they need help and they just want to come visit, they are more than welcome.
SPEAKER_02: We did what we as good parents thought was the right thing to do.
SPEAKER_02: We educated them, sent them to college, did all that, but they could then they decide what they what they do, but we never shut our doors to them.
SPEAKER_02: And she really struggled with that.
SPEAKER_02: And for some reason she wanted, but but she he was the head of the household.
SPEAKER_02: So we we never had our doors shut to, you know, even we knew how she felt, she told us how she felt, but the doors were never locked or shut.
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't know if that applies, but uh he he was always kind of a shining light for me because I felt like uh and it wasn't that I was careless and did whatever I felt like doing, I don't mean that.
SPEAKER_02: But he accepted me for who I was because he felt like he helped to for me, I guess.
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not sure that makes any sense, but I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense in the context of this book, too.
SPEAKER_00: And if it's helpful, um Barbara Brown Taylor, she's an episcopal priest, she has this great phrase about salvation that applies directly to what you just said.
SPEAKER_00: She says that salvation is when somebody who has a key opens a lock that they otherwise could have bolted shut.
SPEAKER_00: Ah so when somebody who has actual power unlocks a lock instead of doubling it down, and and that's what you just said about your dad.
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
SPEAKER_02: And and in in that in that format of that Hispanic culture at that time, yes, he was the man with the power.
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
SPEAKER_02: I mean he was he had the power, so so to speak, in terms of position.
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I I really appreciate that story.
SPEAKER_00: Um there there's another uh aspect I wanted to raise to you, which is that Paul uh talks, remember, he's talking to Gentiles, and he says, uh, how you live a life worthy, and essentially it's you're supposed to renounce pagan ways.
SPEAKER_00: So he says a lot of things about what you should avoid, like empty words, impurity of any kind, being uh using obscene, silly, and vulgar talk.
SPEAKER_00: I gotta tell you, you're gonna have to avoid your Facebook feed if you want to take this seriously.
SPEAKER_00: Um really, he goes on to say this great line uh, which is don't be drunk on wine, but be full of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_00: Um, everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for everything that becomes visible is light.
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, again, I I because I'm listening to this now, uh, last week I was uh visiting Brene Brown again, and she um she says, you know, we have this tendency when we get really uncomfortable to numb ourselves.
SPEAKER_00: So numbing is like when you take the edge off of life.
SPEAKER_00: And some people do that, obviously, by drink, and some people do that by drugs.
SPEAKER_00: Some people do it actually to just shutting themselves off from feeling because they've been hurt too much.
SPEAKER_00: Or some people do it by watching um too many soap operas, or from working all the time.
SPEAKER_00: That's the way I like to numb, is by just doing more stuff.
SPEAKER_00: And she says the problem with numbing is that the more you numb the dark, the more you numb the light.
SPEAKER_00: So when we separate ourselves from feeling, what we do is we lose our capacity to feel and enjoy.
SPEAKER_00: And I I want to suggest that's how I think Paul is talking to us about renouncing pagan ways.
SPEAKER_00: When we numb ourselves to God's harmony, however that is, we're really missing the beauty of the symphony.
SPEAKER_00: And one of the ways we do that is with tribalism, right?
SPEAKER_00: If we don't have to listen to a viewpoint different from ours, that's really, really easy.
SPEAKER_00: But we miss that there are viewpoints other than ours.
SPEAKER_00: And there's something really wonderful about having somebody on the complete opposite side of the political aisle from you who is a dear friend and who you know and love and trust.
SPEAKER_00: There's something great about that.
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's that's absolutely true.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's very difficult to do.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: You know, um what she says is the trick is people are always easier to love up close.
SPEAKER_00: And uh there's this really hard thing that people who like bother me the most are the ones that if I'll invest in more personally, I can usually find something to unbother me.
SPEAKER_02: I think that's so true.
SPEAKER_02: I have a younger brother who politically, of the six of us, he's probably the most right-wing.
SPEAKER_02: However, just recently we were all together and uh we we started talking about my dad and how much daddy loved loved baseball.
SPEAKER_02: And it was right after the the the rocket, uh, not the rockets, the Astros had played, and and and and it's in my he's he's the other one, suddenly became so attached to each other by how we both knew how my dad adored baseball, and the joy we got from watching him listen to for me, it was listening to him laying on the floor, long, listening to Dizzy Dean do baseball games.
SPEAKER_02: So here is Anne and I, who politically are so far apart, grew together because of the love we had for our dad and the love he we knew he had for baseball things.
SPEAKER_02: But uh it was such a it was such a sweet moment.
SPEAKER_02: It was more than a moment, it was a luncheon and all my brothers were there.
SPEAKER_02: But I I look at him and his life in a different way uh than I thought, you know, and I something that but it was part of our lives and it's very real and we forget about that with each other, I think, sometimes.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I I think it's really interesting to think Paul talks a lot about speech, like vulgar speech, obscene speech, silly speech.
SPEAKER_00: And there's this really interesting thing, which is that if I don't keep proper confidence between you and I, I can't gain your trust.
SPEAKER_00: But if I don't keep proper confidence between someone else in front of you, I can't gain your trust either.
SPEAKER_00: Because if I'll talk about somebody else when they're not there, I might well do that to you.
SPEAKER_00: And there's this really interesting thing, right, about how uh confidence becomes really, really important and how speaking on a turn can destroy God's harmony.
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know if it's okay to say, but you know I'm a recovering fundamentalist, and there's people who I know have terrible theology.
SPEAKER_00: But um, if I find myself destitute for a number of reasons, from illness or disaster, I know very well that some of my most conservative friends would be the one the first ones to support me.
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's something really beautiful about holding on to that generosity in the middle of our difference that Paul's inviting us to enjoy right now.
SPEAKER_03: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, does anybody want the last word?
SPEAKER_00: I think Zoom's gonna kick us off in just a minute.
SPEAKER_02: Well, I just want to say it's really wonderful to spend a few minutes in the middle of this season we're in.
SPEAKER_02: Um to spend some time being able to escape and do something speak with some other people because we've been all of us, I guess, have been isolated to some extent.
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I really appreciate this time with all of you.
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, I agree.
SPEAKER_03: God bless you guys.
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_00: God bless you all.
SPEAKER_00: And next week we will go ahead with one Timothy, um, which I think will be very interesting for our little group.
SPEAKER_00: Uh so I will see you next Wednesday at 9, and I'll email the Zoom invitation again.
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for making time.
SPEAKER_00: It's wonderful to see you and to hear you.
SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Mike.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, take care, everybody.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Mike.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everybody.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.